We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode Platforms need the news, but they're killing it

Platforms need the news, but they're killing it

2024/12/13
logo of podcast Decoder with Nilay Patel

Decoder with Nilay Patel

AI Deep Dive AI Insights AI Chapters Transcript
People
M
Matt Pearce
N
Nilay Patel
以尖锐评论和分析大科技公司和政治人物而闻名的《The Verge》编辑总监。
Topics
Nilay Patel: 本期节目探讨了互联网变革对媒体生态系统,特别是新闻业的影响。平台对创作者和网红的影响力巨大,媒体的分发方式直接影响媒体内容的生产。新闻机构过度依赖Facebook、谷歌搜索和TikTok等平台,导致新闻传播受算法推荐系统控制,新闻质量下降,网红和内容聚合者占据了原创新闻的价值。 Patel认为,虽然传统媒体衰落,但一些独立新闻机构通过直接面向受众、控制分发等方式取得了成功。他以Vox Media、Barry Weiss的新闻机构、Casey Newton的Platformer和Ben Smith的Semaphore为例,说明独立新闻机构的成功模式。然而,他也指出,这些成功的案例规模较小,难以解决整个新闻业的困境。 Patel还谈到,平台获取新闻内容的价值,而原创新闻机构却得不到应有的回报,这种价值转移现象日益严重。他认为,新闻机构需要找到新的盈利模式,不能过度依赖平台。 Patel和Pearce都同意,需要解决新闻业的资金问题,并探讨了各种可能的解决方案,包括政府补贴、反垄断行动等。 Patel还谈到了亿万富翁媒体大亨对新闻业的改革方案,认为这些方案往往忽视了新闻分发渠道的变化,以及受众的实际新闻消费行为。 Matt Pearce: Pearce认为,美国的信息经济体系从上到下都腐败不堪,其根源在于阻碍优质新闻与公众之间联系的数字基础设施。他指出,新闻业的衰落源于对Facebook、谷歌搜索以及TikTok等平台的过度依赖,导致新闻传播失去控制,并被算法推荐系统所左右,最终损害了新闻的质量和独立性。 Pearce认为,新闻业面临的资金问题不仅体现在薪资支付上,还体现在当新闻工作者被裁员后,其工作无法被轻易替代,以及新闻内容的传播途径过于分散,难以被读者直接接触到。他认为,面对广告垄断,应该通过集体谈判或重新分配的方式,将广告收入返还给原创内容生产者。 Pearce还指出,新闻业的成本问题类似于鲍莫尔成本病,一些新闻工作(如调查报道)的效率提升有限,导致成本持续上升,而科技进步主要体现在新闻分发方式上,降低了新闻生产的门槛。新闻聚合平台通过低成本运作,从原创新闻机构获取价值,这种价值转移现象难以解决,但Pearce认为,与其打击聚合平台,不如关注平台背后的资金来源。 Pearce还谈到,为了重新平衡新闻市场,应该对新闻记者的劳动进行补贴,而不是对出版商进行补贴,因为新闻生产离不开记者的劳动。 Pearce认为,亿万富翁媒体大亨对新闻业的改革方案往往忽视了新闻分发渠道的变化,以及受众的实际新闻消费行为。反建制情绪和个人主义的兴起,以及科技平台对信息传播的控制,导致传统新闻机构的公信力下降,并为新的权威人物的出现创造了条件。 Pearce最后总结,解决新闻业困境需要个人、集体和政府多方面共同努力,包括个人捐款支持、反垄断行动以及对新闻记者的劳动进行补贴等。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why is the current digital infrastructure a problem for quality journalism?

The digital infrastructure, dominated by platforms like Google and Facebook, controls distribution and audience reach, making it difficult for journalism to survive financially. These platforms prioritize algorithmic recommendations over quality, leading to a diluted news ecosystem where original journalism is often overshadowed by influencers and aggregators.

What role do platforms like Google and Facebook play in the decline of journalism?

Platforms like Google and Facebook have taken control of distribution, leaving publishers dependent on their algorithms for audience reach. This loss of control over distribution has led to a homogenized internet where content creators struggle to maintain independence and financial sustainability.

How does the loss of control over distribution affect journalism?

When publishers lose control over distribution, they lose not only the ability to reach their audience predictably but also the independence to shape their content. This dependence on platforms like Google and Facebook has led to a homogenized internet where content creators struggle to maintain their unique voice and financial viability.

What is Baumol's cost disease and how does it apply to journalism?

Baumol's cost disease describes how certain industries, like string quartets, become more expensive over time as other industries become more efficient. In journalism, investigative reporting and original reporting haven't become more efficient, making it difficult for news organizations to compete in a digital economy dominated by platforms that prioritize speed and quantity over quality.

How do platforms like TikTok and Instagram contribute to the value transfer from journalists to platforms?

Platforms like TikTok and Instagram allow aggregators to take original journalism and distribute it cheaply, often without proper credit or compensation to the original creators. This creates a value transfer where platforms and aggregators benefit financially, while the original journalists receive little to no compensation.

Why do billionaires like Jeff Bezos and Patrick Soon-Shiong focus on objectivity in their media strategies?

Billionaires like Jeff Bezos and Patrick Soon-Shiong come from a generation that values traditional, nonpartisan journalism. They believe that restoring objectivity and removing opinionated content will rebuild public trust in media, despite consumer behavior showing a preference for more opinionated and engaging content.

What is the impact of the anti-institutional spirit on journalism?

The anti-institutional spirit, fueled by influencers and platforms, has led to a widespread distrust in traditional media institutions. This has resulted in consumers gravitating towards content that validates their beliefs, making it harder for traditional journalism to maintain relevance and credibility.

What solutions does Matt Pierce propose for funding independent journalism?

Matt Pierce advocates for subsidies or market interventions, such as redistributing advertising dollars from platforms like Google and Facebook back to newsrooms. He also supports antitrust actions to break up monopolies, which could create a more competitive environment for independent journalism to thrive.

Shownotes Transcript

We’ve been talking a lot this year about the changing internet, and what it’s doing to the media ecosystem — particularly journalism, which has taken a backseat to creators and influencers. But the tech platforms themselves have a lot of influence over what those creators and influencers make, too. If you’re a Decoder listener, you’ll recognize this as one of my common themes — the idea that the way we distribute media directly influences the media we make. 

To break this all down, I invited media critic and labor union president Matt Pearce on the show to discuss a great blog he wrote titled “Lessons on media policy at the slaughter-bench of history.” We get into what mechanisms can be used to fund journalism, and how building a direct audience and exercising control over distribution is more pivotal than ever. 

**Links: **

  • Lessons on media policy at the slaughter-bench of history | Matt Pearce)

  • Journalism's fight for survival in a postliterate democracy | Matt Pearce)

  • A deep dive into Google's shady (and shoddy) California journalism deal | Matt Pearce)

  • Google Zero is here — now what? | Decoder)

  • Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse and what comes next | Decoder)

  • Illusory Truth Effect | The Decision Lab)

  • The people who ruined the internet | The Verge)

  • Another independent site says Google killed its business | The Verge)

  • Google ‘can’t guarantee’ that independent sites will recover | The Verge)

  • Owner of Los Angeles Times Plans ‘Bias Meter’ Next to Coverage | NYT)

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices)