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cover of episode Protecting Yourself from Narcissistic People with Dr. Ramani Durvasula

Protecting Yourself from Narcissistic People with Dr. Ramani Durvasula

2025/2/24
logo of podcast Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

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Dr. Ramani Durvasula
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Forrest Hansen
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Dr. Ramani Durvasula: 我是临床心理学家,专门研究自恋和自恋型虐待。自恋型人格的人缺乏同理心,极度自私,过度需要赞美和认可,得不到就会生气。他们的人际关系肤浅,具有交易性或剥削性,并且有强烈的优越感。表面上的防御机制掩盖着内心的不安全感和羞耻感。自恋型人格有多种表现形式,例如夸大性自恋、脆弱性自恋、恶意自恋和集体自恋等。核心特征相同,但外在表现差异很大。自恋型人格的人需要通过外部来源获得所谓的“自恋供给”(admiration and validation)来满足内心的空虚和不安全感。自恋供给的需求存在于每个人身上,但自恋型人格的人对自恋供给的需求程度和应对方式与常人不同。与常人相比,自恋型人格的人在得不到赞美和认可时,更容易出现情绪失控、迁怒于人的情况,缺乏自我调节能力。将自恋视为一种人格特质而非疾病,更能反映人们的真实体验。诊断标准过于僵化,无法完全反映自恋型人格的复杂性。更重要的是关注其行为表现而非诊断结果。自恋型人格的人虽然有缺点,但其魅力和技巧也使其具有吸引力,容易让人陷入关系中。间歇性强化(intermittent reinforcement)是自恋型关系中的一种常见模式,它会让人上瘾并难以摆脱。在自恋型关系中,人们容易陷入困境,原因是自恋型伴侣的行为模式会让人难以预测,并产生错觉。容易被自恋型人格的人吸引并陷入关系中的人,往往具有一些共同的性格特质或生活经历,例如高度共情、乐于助人、过于乐观、或有原生家庭创伤等。自恋型关系通常遵循一定的模式,但并非一成不变。自恋型关系通常始于理想化阶段,随后是贬低阶段,最终可能以抛弃或分手告终。但这个过程并非总是线性发展的,也可能反复循环。自恋型人格的人经常使用操纵和煤气灯手法来控制他人。操纵是指以满足自身需求为目的,却将其伪装成对他人有利的行为。煤气灯手法是一种恶意操纵方式,它会让人质疑自己的记忆、感知和现实,最终使其屈服于操纵者。记录和保留证据可以帮助人们对抗自恋型人格的人的现实扭曲。在走出自恋型关系的过程中,要学会“激进式接纳”(radical acceptance),即清晰地认识到自恋型人格的人不太可能改变,并据此调整与他们的相处方式。要学会区分好坏消息,并选择合适的倾诉对象。要积极建立健康的人际关系,并关注自身感受。 Forrest Hansen: 与自恋型人格的人相处,要学会保护自己,避免陷入困境。要关注自恋型人格的人的行为模式,而不是诊断结果。要学会识别操纵和煤气灯手法。要学会激进式接纳,并调整与自恋型人格的人的相处方式。要积极建立健康的人际关系,并关注自身感受。要学会区分好坏消息,并选择合适的倾诉对象。要学会保护自己,避免陷入困境。要关注自恋型人格的人的行为模式,而不是诊断结果。要学会识别操纵和煤气灯手法。要学会激进式接纳,并调整与自恋型人格的人的相处方式。要积极建立健康的人际关系,并关注自身感受。要学会区分好坏消息,并选择合适的倾诉对象。

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Dr. Ramani Durvasula, one of the world’s leading experts on narcissism and narcissistic abuse, joins Forrest to help us learn how to understand, identify, and recover from relationships with narcissistic people. They start by discussing the traits associated with narcissism, the spectrum of narcissistic behaviors, and Dr. Ramani’s critiques of the NPD diagnosis. They then talk about different kinds of narcissism and why narcissists can be difficult to identify before moving on to the issues with narcissism in relationships. Dr. Ramani explains the general pattern narcissism follows, what narcissistic abuse looks like in practice, and what we can do to become more "narcissist resistant.”

**About our Guest: *Dr. Ramani is a clinical psychologist, professor emeritus at California State University, Los Angeles, and the author of a number of books including her most recent It’s Not You: Identifying and Healing from Narcissistic People). *Her work has been featured on The Today Show, CNN, and *The New York Times. *She also offers an online program) for survivors of narcissistic abuse. 

You can watch this episode on YouTube).

Key Topics:

0:00: Introduction

1:30: Defining the variety of narcissistic personality styles

9:40: Narcissism as a tactic for external validation

13:00: Narcissistic supplies, personality style, and diagnosable conditions

24:45: The appeal of narcissistic traits, and their effect on specific relationships

33:25: Getting stuck in a relationship with a narcissist, and devaluation

42:45: Manipulation, gaslighting, and discerning what’s real

52:35: Becoming narcissist resistant

1:00:45: Nervous system responses

1:03:25: Covert narcissism and seeing your own traits

1:06:45: Recap

I am now writing on Substack, check out my work there.)** **

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