Shownotes Transcript
It's the Rule Breaker Investing Podcast with Motley Fool co-founder David Gardner. Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing. Happy weekend. Happy weekend extra.
Prize-fighting heavyweight champion, entrepreneur, minister, father of 12, including five sons all named George, and all-around good guy, George Foreman, died last month in a hospital in his native Houston, Texas. A colorful figure larger than his 6'3 frame, some would say larger than life for many years, Big George was a two-time world heavyweight champion, an Olympic boxing gold medalist, and of course, the namesake of the George Foreman Grill.
and many other things besides. In fact, he was also the subject of a Motley Fool interview that aired on our national public radio show, The Motley Fool Radio Show, back in 2002. To fit our show, our NPR show back then, the whole conversation was edited down just to 10 minutes.
And I thought you, dear listener, on this lovely weekend might enjoy hearing that in celebration of George Foreman's life this weekend on Rule Breaker Investing. So we're going to air that interview and provide some commentary and reflection on it. And here to join me in so doing is our longtime Motley Fool producer, friend,
sidekick alongside for many adventures, Mac Greer. Mac, it's great to have you back. David, great to be here. We last did a celebratory weekend extra together, replaying our classic Motley Fool interview, Mac, with Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers. And I love doing that. Loved hearing your perspective. And so I'm glad to be joined with you this week as we do, I don't know, Mystery Science Theater 3000. We probably won't interrupt this, but with that George Foreman interview. Mac, before we run the
the 10-minute tape. Is there anything you'd like to share ahead of time? David, a few reflections. When I think about this interview, for a certain generation, George Foreman is the grill. It's a business story, right? And when we think about that, George Foreman sold his interest in the George Foreman grill for $137.5 million. Wow. So you know what?
That's incredible. That's incredible. For all the stories we hear about former athletes getting ripped off or just all of these very sad stories, this is just a success story. A lot more money, Mac, than he made prize fighting.
It's incredible. It's incredible. I think, David, and I think I've talked to you about this, Wally Amos, if you're of a certain generation, you ate famous Amos cookies. And in my previous job, Wally Amos was on our show. But at that point, he was on the show because he had a new type of muffin and was called Uncle No Nommies. And it's because he had lost the right to use his own name
when he sold Famous Amos Cookies. He lost the right to use his own name. No Name was, I think, spelled N-O-N-A-M-E. Correct. No name. There you go. So you have Wally Amos losing the right to use his own name, which is just so tragic and sad. And at the other end of the spectrum, you have George Foreman, just this incredible personality, this incredible entrepreneur,
leveraging his name, right? And realizing that there's incredible power in that name. So that's what I think of first and foremost. But then the second piece is the sports piece because, you know, grew up watching a lot of boxing, watched George Foreman. George Foreman, not just an incredible boxer in the 70s, was 45 years old when he regains the heavyweight title. Just incredible. That's insane. David, I have trouble putting on my socks in the morning.
And he was 45. I mean, that is phenomenal. Mac, did you ever, I mean, you too are a Houston native. Did you ever encounter George in person anywhere?
I did not. All right. Because I know he had an exhibition career early on before his career, and I thought there was a chance maybe Matt Greer had picked a fight with George Floyd. There's a chance. No, I was never much of a fighter. I think I was in like one fight in elementary school. More of a lover, Matt? Yeah, it didn't end well. I mean, I don't think you're allowed to proclaim yourself a lover. I think that's for other people to decide.
All right. Without further ado, let's roll it. This is nine minutes, 59 seconds. It includes my brother Tom and me interviewing George Foreman. This is a very special Motley Fool radio show. To whip, it's our final show on NPR, and we're sharing some of our favorite Fool radio memories.
He's a puncher, a preacher, an author, a rancher, a family man, and a businessman. He's got one of the hottest selling home products in years. The Motley Fool Radio Show is pleased to welcome the former heavyweight champion in the world, George Foreman, who joins us from Houston, Texas. George, welcome to the Motley Fool Radio Show. Thank you. And you forgot to mention, I just overcame an IRS.
Is that true? The 15th of April. You paid your taxes this year, George? I finally paid my taxes. That's really great. Now, George. I'm telling you, it's done. I can live now. Amen. Amen. Now, we've got a lot of ground to cover, and we'd like to start out by talking a little bit about the George Foreman Grill, which has to be one of the best-selling home products ever. How did the idea originate, and how are things going these days? Are we still seeing rapid sales? Yeah.
Rapid sales, no doubt about it. But it all started as a joke. Of course, I was doing so many commercials and campaigning for so many products out there. And a friend of mine asked me, he said, George, why don't you get your own product since you're making everyone else so successful? I said, okay, I'll do it. How much are you going to give me? He said, no, no, no, no. No money. You get your own.
So the grill just came up. It was an invention that had been around for a long time. But I got with the people at Salton, and we made it a beautiful piece of furniture. We did an infomercial, which I didn't like. Infomercials. I bought everything from hair tonic to you bet you're going to catch a fish, and nothing worked. So for me to go on with a product on an infomercial, I didn't like it. But we started using it, the grill. The grease would drop. I didn't have to put my hands in the oven to brawl food anymore.
And this thing got around by word of mouth. I think about 1983, 84, people were talking about it. No one was buying it, but they were talking. George, what are your favorite things to cook on the George Foreman Grill? Salmon steak. That's where I love the salmon steak. If I put those on, I can have them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. There's nothing better for me than salmon steaks. I love them because my wife, she doesn't mind if I eat them all day.
Now, as a business show, we've got to ask, do you think you've made more money from your boxing career or from sales of the George Foreman Grill? No doubt the Grill has been more successful, but it never could have happened without the boxing career. I can tell you that. How successful has the Grill been, George? How many have you sold and how much money have you made?
You know, it's strange. I can talk about the money in a moment, but to meet people when I've just beaten up maybe a hero. I fought Joe Frazier years ago, and I'd go through Philadelphia, and no one was patting me on the back. Then they'd recognize me. But now with the grill, you walk through the airport, and people say, George, I love your grill. Oh!
And it works. And I've lost so much weight. You hear these kind of things, and that makes me know that success cannot be measured with money when you talk about this because as a boxer, it wasn't about the money. It was just you were trying to be heavyweight champion of the world and Olympic gold medalist. And obviously a lot of people love their George Foreman grill. George, do you know how many you've sold? Oh, probably somewhere over 12 million.
But no doubt more than that. Okay, and you're listening to the Motley Fool Radio Show. We're talking to former heavyweight champ George Foreman. George, we want to back up for a minute and talk about the early days. We're a business show, as you know, so we like to talk with our guests about money. You were one of seven children. What was the money situation like growing up?
Boy, we were so poor that we had to take one of the O's out and even the R. We were just poor. I mean, we'd sit around, and I'd think about daydreaming. I would watch the windows of families who had food and see them leave a piece of skin on the chicken and wish I could have that. You talk about poor. Life was rough, and there wasn't anything called money around. What type of boy was George Foreman?
Well, because my mother worked all the time, and I come from a family that the mother was a rule, and my mother and father broke up early. And she'd have to scare me. I'm going to get you if you do this, that, and the other. Scare me. And that scare would weigh off about half today. And then I was out in trouble, being your typical juvenile delinquent. Now, what was the turning point for you? I know we've certainly read that you had a religious vision during your boxing career and decided to become a preacher, but what was that moment?
that you would identify as your turning point? I was a high school dropout, of course, way back in the early 60s, about 64. And in 65, Jimmy Brown, a great football player, did a commercial for the Job Corps. He said, if you're looking for a second chance in life, an education, a chance to play sports, do it. And I was nowhere, just literally in the gutter. Lyndon Johnson had started this anti-poverty program to give high school dropouts in the inner city a second chance for education. I took it.
And I got a chance to learn to read, write, and even have three meals per day in a job corps program. That changed my life more than anything. George, let's talk boxing now. After a 10-year retirement, you decided to fight again. You came back in 1987. Why did you come out of retirement?
For ten years I spent as an evangelist. I had this dynamic experience back in '77 after my last boxing match as the George Foreman. And I lost, and I had a religious experience in the dressing room. I had a vision in a split second. I was dead and alive again. On my hand and on my forehead I started screaming because I saw blood. "Jesus Christ is coming alive in me!" Of course they rushed me to the emergency room.
You know what I mean? But I will never forget that experience to have a vision of death and life again. And I had a second chance to live. It changed me. For 10 years, I couldn't even shadow box. But something happened. I got broke.
and I wish I had been a golfer, believe me. But because I was a boxer, and it was my only profession, I had to come back. Of course, the high point was to regain the title in 1994. I defeated Michael Moore. It was unbelievable, because you tell people, look, you're a middle-aged man. How old were you then, George? I was 45 years old.
The oldest man to ever become heavyweight champ of the world. You ever thought about breaking that record? I do. I think about it all the time. I told my wife just the other day, look, David Tua was about to fight Lennox Lewis for the title, and they couldn't agree on money. I said to my wife, look, I can pay David Tua that money he wants and fight him. He's the number one contender. I can beat him. Then Lennox Lewis got to fight me. I can be the heavyweight champ of the world. And I went on for about two hours, and after I finished, she said, shut up.
Go lay down. So when it gets to the point that you are more afraid of what your wife is going to do to you than Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson, it's time to leave it alone. Let me ask you, George, you said that you came back to boxing because you were broke. But we have to think during that initial boxing career that you made quite a bit of money. What happened to that money along the way?
Well, you've heard of fast women and slow horses. And I just had no idea about life that you needed to save money and look for the future. Even though I boxed for 10 years, I thought the money would continue to come every day, and I just spent. I had no idea that one day you'll be a middle-aged man and you're going to need money.
Are you going to want money? I thought that was the end of it. And let's talk about that right now, George. I mean, we are a show about investing in money, and we frequently feature people who are well-known, and they tell us, looking back over their lives, their smartest and their dumbest investment. Hmm.
Oh, boy, I can tell you the dumbest. The price of cattle was skyrocketing back in the late, middle 70s. And so I invested, I mean, more $100,000 than you can ever guess into the cattle business. And the bottom fell out of them quick. They were worth 10 cents overnight. How much did you lose?
I think in that time about $700,000, which is the equivalent of $2 million today. That's exactly right. And they're still the same cattle, right? I mean, they're all still cattle. They're yours. Yeah, you still have the cows, but then you end up with the cows and you've got to feed them too. Now what about the smartest? What about the smartest investment? The smartest is the annuities. You
you put your money in a few of those annuities and they never do anything adventurous and you look back and you say, "It's still there. Hasn't grown much." But it's still there. The annuities, I'm telling you, investing with those insurance companies and buying annuities through them,
And I've had some more aggressive investments, and I've done well, but I've never seen anything like that. You come back, and the money is still there. You're listening to The Motley Fool Radio Show. We're talking to former heavyweight champ George Foreman. And, George, we're going to close with a little game that we play with our guests on The Motley Fool Radio Show. It's called Buy, Sell, or Hold. Now, we're going to be tossing out people or things going on in our society and ask you, if they were stocks, would you be buying stocks?
selling or holding and maybe a sentence or two about why you read it okay let's start with if he were a stock would you be buying selling or holding right now mike tyson uh... hold and why i think the best is yet to come by seller hold marriage marriage
Why? Jump in the water, it's fine. I've been in there five times. Five baptisms. Okay, buy, sell, or hold another boxing comeback for George Foreman. Buy. Oh.
Because if I get broke, I'm coming back. George, you're not spending too much of that grill money, are you? No. He's got the annuities. My name is George, and I cannot tell a lie. He throws a mean punch in both the boxing ring and in the business ring. George Foreman, thanks for joining us on the Motley Fool Radio Show. Thank you. All right, and back to the present day.
Matt Greer, your first impressions. I know you've heard it a few times since we did that in 2002. How has it aged? David, I think that's aged like a fine wine. I mean, he is so winning and so incredibly humble. And I do hear things a bit differently now, being a bit older, right? Yeah.
20-ish years older. I remember at the time when he talked about annuities and thinking in my head, you know, what a, that's not a good investment. And, you know, annuities can be a ripoff. And I have never owned an annuity, to be clear. Nor have I. But what I love about this is he says, you come back and the money is still there. And I know, David, you've talked a lot about know thyself. And it sounds like he got to a point, at least financially, where he's like, you know what?
I know my risk tolerance. And most of all, I want the money to be there because I don't really need to grow the money.
I just don't want to blow the money. Yeah. And obviously, he, along with so many celebrities, have had many different runs in and out of money over the course of his life, obviously starting from where he started in a very poor area of your native city, Houston, Texas, Mac. I mean, wow. Just think about the ascent that he made over the course of his incredibly storied life. Fast women and slow horses, he said near the end.
I'm not sure he knew that Slow Horses was going to be such a great show on Apple Plus, by the way, at the time. But, you know, I just think about George and George, George III, George Jr., his five kids named George. And I was checking on his website. He explained it this way. He said, I named all my sons George Edward Foreman and
so they would always have something in common. I say to them, if one of us goes up, then we all go up together, and if one goes down, we all go down together. I love that. And really, he's just so articulate. I mean, you could listen to him all day. He obviously has not just stories, but he has catchphrases and expressions. We barely talked about boxing. We never mentioned the rumble in the jungle, his storied fight against Muhammad Ali. This is somebody who...
existed in multiple eras, taking multiple different forms. And at the age of 76, which is how old he was when he died last month, he lived every day of that life. David, and speaking of the rumble in the jungle, have to give of Movie Wreck for anyone who has not seen the documentary yet.
When We Were Kings may be my single favorite documentary of all time. It's incredible. It's about the Ali Foreman fight in Zaire back in 1974. Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned that, Matt, because I also was boning up a little bit in preparation for our weekend extra. And I was just reviewing that because I saw it too. I probably saw it in your recommendation. It came out in 1996. But what I didn't know and checked, and I'd like to share this now. You probably know this, Matt, because you're so smart.
invested, knowledgeable with an incredible memory. I needed to be reminded of who produced that movie and how it happened. So I'm going to possibly make an etiquette mistake and read just from Wikipedia here, just to hear a little bit, two paragraphs of the background when we were kings. It was made by Leon Gast. Now, Gast was not originally supposed to film that documentary. He went to Kinshasa Zaire, and he was still a photographer who had one documentary, which was on Latin music up to that point.
He was hired to create a documentary about a three-day music festival that was happening in Kinshasa when the fight was occurring.
Zaire's ruler declared the concert free of charge days before it was supposed to happen. That was problematic because funds for the documentary were supposed to come directly from the proceeds of the festival. So five days before the scheduled fight, George Foreman acquires a bad cut above one of his eyes. The fight's pushback six weeks. Gast turned his attention to the fight and centered the documentary on Ali.
And when he returned from Kinshasa, he had 300,000 feet of 16 millimeter film that was 138 hours of filming. Initially, Gass didn't have the money to finish the documentary. So he paid the bills by making documentaries on The Grateful Dead and Hell's Angels. And in 1989, Gass' former lawyer, David Sonnenberg, helped Gass out by putting up almost $1 million to finish
the project. The film was first featured at Sundance 1996. He won the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature in 1996. He spent close to two decades making When We Were Kings. It's incredible. And it's incredible to think about how George Foreman evolved because back then, you essentially, it's not much of an exaggeration to say almost the entire world was rooting for Muhammad Ali.
And George Foreman lands in Zaire and finds that out kind of the hard way. And, you know, 20 some odd years later, he's incredibly beloved. I think he had a TV show for a little while. He had the grill and obviously regained the heavyweight title. Yeah. And his personality just obviously evolved and popped. He was the quiet killer. He was undefeated going into that match against Ali and he was favored and he really didn't have anything. I mean, anybody,
Compare, contrast with Muhammad Ali, with Cassius Clay, is not going to look like they have much personality. Oh, yeah. But I mean, just to hear George, and obviously, ironically and somewhat tragically, it was Ali whose mind went much faster as an older man. And George, George was right there. I can't speak to recent years where I wasn't really following him, but you can hear just how eloquent he was, albeit 20 years ago in his, oh my gosh, Mac, right around our age.
I know. It's incredible. It is incredible. And I'm just, I'm particularly moved, and I do think this is poetry, by the outro. He throws a mean punch in both the boxing ring and the business ring. Yeah.
David, is that poetry? Can we agree that's poetry? Did you script that? I mean, you're the one who did it. You produced our show. I don't want to draw attention to myself. I'm a humble man. I'm a humble man, but I did check the original Microsoft Word document. And yes, that may have been my phrasing. Well, why don't we prepare for close by having you read that just one more time, Mac? From Anonymous, by the way. Anonymous. From Anonymous. Okay.
He throws a mean punch in both the boxing ring and the business ring. George Foreman, thanks for joining us on The Motley Fool Radio Show. And let's just leave it right there. Enjoy the rest of your weekend, dear listeners. Coming up next week, your Rule Breaker Investing mailbag, our email address, rbi at fool.com. What'd you make of Big George or Big Mac?
Any thoughts to share or pointers for me for future interviews? Email us, rbi.fool.com. In the meantime, have a great rest of your weekend. Thank you, Mac. Thanks, David. Fool on. As always, people on this program may have interest in the stocks they talk about, and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against, so don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. Learn more about Rule Breaker Investing at rbi.fool.com.