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cover of episode Market Tumbles On Rosy Jobs Data | Jack & Max Break-Down Non-Farm Payroll (NFP) Sell-Off and Current Macro Regime

Market Tumbles On Rosy Jobs Data | Jack & Max Break-Down Non-Farm Payroll (NFP) Sell-Off and Current Macro Regime

2025/1/10
logo of podcast Monetary Matters with Jack Farley

Monetary Matters with Jack Farley

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J
Jack Farley
M
Max Wiethe
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Jack Farley: 我认为,对市场和经济的更大威胁是经济衰退而非通货膨胀。尽管人们预期经济衰退三年,但强劲的就业数据表明他们错了。市场更多的是由叙事驱动的,而非现实。高利率对罗素2000指数成分股的冲击大于对大型科技股的冲击,因为小型公司更依赖于短期浮动利率贷款。目前市场处于高利率对罗素2000指数不利的新环境中,无论这种说法是否属实。美联储会议纪要显示,许多参与者认为通胀已经得到控制,但他们不愿意降息。股票和债券的正相关性在2022年以来变得更加普遍,这在短期内可能导致市场进一步下跌。我正在减持风险资产,这与我个人的需求有关。投资决策应该首先考虑个人需求,其次才是市场状况。尽管当前市场缺乏2021年的投机狂潮特征,但仍存在一些类似的迹象,例如一些公司高管的言论。我并不认为当前市场处于过度的投机状态。我认为股票市场可能被高估了20%,这可以通过盈利增长和股价回调来纠正。我认为大多数非谷歌的AI计算股票可能会下跌。计算股权风险溢价时,需要考虑盈利增长因素。一月份的就业数据可能会因人口普查调整而出现意外变化,这可能导致二月份的就业数据出现负面意外。如果考虑人口普查数据后就业市场仍然强劲,那么经济衰退论将被彻底推翻。 Max Wiethe: 密歇根大学消费者通胀预期调查显示,消费者仍然担心通货膨胀。强劲的就业数据表明美联储不太可能降息,这使得对利率敏感的股票(如罗素2000指数成分股)表现不佳。市场情绪逆转与之前的叙事驱动因素有关,例如对特朗普当选和经济放缓的预期。市场情绪低迷,上涨的股票越来越少。市场认为强劲的就业市场会导致长期利率上升,这与经济敏感型股票(如金融股)的预期相反。目前10年期国债收益率具有吸引力,考虑到通胀预期上升,10年期国债可能具有吸引力。通常情况下,当债券下跌时,黄金表现不佳,因为黄金没有现金流。通胀预期上升导致实际收益率下降,这与黄金上涨相符。过去11年来,通胀保值债券ETF与黄金ETF的90天相关性一直为正。黄金的未来价格走势取决于通胀预期。尽管当前市场缺乏2021年的投机狂潮特征,但仍存在一些类似的迹象。特朗普总统政策的不确定性构成了市场风险。大型科技股近期表现不佳,表明市场对政策支持的预期可能被高估。加密货币市场比股票市场更具投机性。MicroStrategy双杠杆ETF显示出过度的投机行为。人们可能过于关注上一次市场崩盘,而忽略了其他导致市场调整的因素。尽管当前市场比2020年至2022年初的投机程度低,但与历史上的大多数时期相比,仍然具有高度投机性。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did the stock market sell off after the December jobs report?

The stock market sold off because the December jobs report showed stronger-than-expected job growth, with 256,000 jobs added compared to the expected 164,000. This, combined with a significant drop in the unemployment rate from 4.24% to 4.08%, signaled a robust labor market. Investors interpreted this as a sign that the Federal Reserve might delay rate cuts, leading to higher interest rates for longer, which negatively impacted equities.

What was the impact of the Michigan consumer inflation expectation surveys on the market?

The Michigan consumer inflation expectation surveys showed a significant jump in both one-year and five-year inflation expectations, rising to 3.3% from 2.8% and 3% respectively. This increase in inflation expectations spooked markets, as it suggested that consumers remain concerned about inflation despite central bankers' claims that inflation is under control. This added to the market's unease and contributed to the sell-off.

Why did the Russell 2000 underperform compared to the S&P 500?

The Russell 2000, which represents small-cap companies, underperformed the S&P 500 because small-cap companies are more sensitive to interest rate changes. Many of these companies rely on floating-rate debt, making them more vulnerable to higher borrowing costs. Additionally, the narrative shifted to high interest rates being detrimental to small-cap companies, while large-cap tech companies like Nvidia and Apple, with strong balance sheets, were seen as less affected.

What is the current correlation between stocks and bonds, and why is it significant?

Stocks and bonds have been positively correlated for most of 2023 and 2024, meaning they tend to move in the same direction. This is significant because historically, stocks and bonds have had a negative correlation, with bonds acting as a hedge during stock market declines. The positive correlation, particularly evident in 2022, has alarmed investors as it reduces the diversification benefits of holding both asset classes. This trend continued with both stocks and bonds selling off after the strong jobs report.

Why did gold rally despite bonds selling off?

Gold rallied despite bonds selling off because the rise in inflation expectations, as indicated by the Michigan consumer survey, reduced real yields (nominal yields minus inflation). Since gold is often seen as a hedge against inflation, the increase in inflation expectations made gold more attractive, even as bond yields rose. This dynamic is supported by the positive correlation between gold and Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities (TIPS) over the past decade.

What is the significance of the equity risk premium being negative?

The equity risk premium, which compares the earnings yield of the S&P 500 to the yield on the 10-year Treasury, turned negative for the first time in decades. This means stocks are no longer offering a premium over bonds, which is unusual since stocks are considered riskier. While this suggests equities may be overvalued, historical data shows that a negative equity risk premium does not necessarily predict near-term market performance, as seen during the late 1990s bull market.

What are the potential risks to the market from President Trump's policies?

Potential risks from President Trump's policies include his plans to cut the deficit, which could slow economic growth, and his proposed tariffs, which could be inflationary. These policies create uncertainty for markets, as they could lead to slower growth and higher inflation, both of which are negative for equities. Additionally, the market's current pricing of a Republican administration as positive for stocks could be quickly unwound if these policies lead to adverse economic outcomes.

What is the outlook for speculative excess in the equity and crypto markets?

In the equity market, speculative excess is not as pronounced as it was in 2021, with fewer low-quality IPOs and SPACs entering the market. However, there are signs of speculative behavior in certain stocks like Palantir and MicroStrategy. In contrast, the crypto market shows clear signs of speculative excess, with meme coins and tokens like 'fart coin' reaching billion-dollar valuations. This suggests that while equities are less speculative, crypto remains a hotbed of speculative activity.

Chapters
The December jobs report showed 256,000 jobs added, exceeding expectations and causing a sell-off in both equity and bond markets. The Russell 2000 index underperformed significantly, with a 2.35% drop, attributed to the higher interest rates impacting smaller companies more than larger ones. The changing narrative and the impact of high interest rates on different market sectors are discussed.
  • 256,000 jobs added in December (vs. 164,000 expected)
  • S&P 500 down 1.5%
  • Russell 2000 down 2.35%
  • High interest rates impact small-cap companies more

Shownotes Transcript

Jack Farley and Max Wiethe of the Monetary Matters network break down the sell-off in stocks after a strong December jobs report and hot inflation expectations reading surprises markets. Recorded afternoon of January 10.

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Philadelphia Fed work on early : https://www.philadelphiafed.org/-/media/frbp/assets/economy/articles/economic-insights/2022/q3-q4/eiq3q422_rs-measuring-state-employment.pdf)

https://www.philadelphiafed.org/surveys-and-data/regional-economic-analysis/early-benchmark-revisions)

Bloomberg Opinion piece on Equity Risk Premia:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2025-01-10/who-s-afraid-of-rising-treasury-yields-not-stocks?srnd=opinion)