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cover of episode What can the end of the Ming Dynasty tell us about the election of Donald Trump and what comes next

What can the end of the Ming Dynasty tell us about the election of Donald Trump and what comes next

2024/11/12
logo of podcast Barbarians at the Gate

Barbarians at the Gate

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People
B
Brendan
D
David
波士顿大学电气和计算机工程系教授,专注于澄清5G技术与COVID-19之间的误信息。
J
Jeremiah
Topics
David: 我对特朗普的再次当选并不感到意外,因为自2016年以来,他的所作所为从未真正影响过他的支持率。我认为过去20年美国政治的走向是不可避免的,奥巴马执政时期只是短暂的例外。北京的年轻人对特朗普再次当选的反应较为平静,他们将其视为一件娱乐性事件,并且能够接触到美国的社交媒体和主流媒体,对美国政治有超出预期的了解。他们对1月6日美国国会骚乱事件的反应较为淡漠,认为这只是另一起普通的骚乱事件。我还听说一些在美国学习的中国学生为了好玩进行了非法投票,这让我感到不安。 Jeremiah: 我认为过去20年美国政治的走向是不可避免的,奥巴马执政时期只是短暂的例外。我想了解晚明时期文学作品中,人们对时代衰落和政治秩序崩溃的反应,以及从中可以吸取的教训。我认为特朗普的再次当选与毛泽东在中国的崛起有相似之处,都体现了对精英阶层的愤怒。美国可能会经历一段时间的巨大创伤,但这也有可能成为一个契机,让人们反思并改变方向。 Brendan O'Kane: “中兴”一词在中文语境下可以指复兴,但也可以被讽刺性地使用。2008年奥巴马当选总统之夜,我们都在北京,那是一个美好的夜晚,现在看来却像是另一个时代。晚明时期文学作品充满了超现实主义和讽刺,这反映了当时社会政治环境的极度混乱。《金瓶梅》是第一部现代小说的有力竞争者,它反映了晚明时期社会的混乱和腐败。明朝的灭亡是历史上的一个高度确定的事件,其最终的百年充满了混乱和灾难。明朝的衰落是由于一系列错误的决策和领导能力的缺失造成的。明朝的衰落可以用“烂摊子”来形容,最终被满清征服。晚明时期的政治动荡和社会崩溃对后世产生了深远的影响,这与特朗普的执政时期存在相似之处。专制统治者往往被表面上的忠诚包围,但他们无法信任任何人,这种不信任感是他们最终垮台的原因之一。专制统治者的性格特征既是他们获得权力的原因,也是他们最终垮台的原因。明朝的衰落部分原因是开国皇帝设立的限制,这些限制最终损害了王朝的利益。特朗普与明朝皇帝的相似之处在于,他们都掌握了过多的权力,缺乏制衡机制。特朗普政府中一些扮演“政府首脑”角色的人物离开后,加剧了其权力不受约束和混乱局面。张岱的回忆录展现了晚明时期社会生活的景象以及作者对时代变迁的感受。张岱的文字生动地描绘了苏州虎丘中秋节的盛况。

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Last week’s election of Donald Trump to a second term as U.S. President disappointed half of the American electorate and much of the world (outside the Kremlin). To help Jeremiah and David process what’s next, they’re joined by Brendan O’Kane— writer, translator, expert in the literature of the late Ming Dynasty, and a Pennsylvania voter.

Brendan explores the works of Zhang Dai (張岱 1597-1634), the Jin Ping Mei 金瓶梅, and other literary examples from the twilight of the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644). What was it like to witness the end of an era and the collapse of an entire state? Was the Obama era an American "restoration" (中興)? What do people do when the political order is overturned and the dynasty falls? We delve into Chinese history and literature, searching for insights to ease the pain and make sense of what lies ahead.

David also shares reactions from his students in Beijing on the election results—as well as rumors of a surprising (and unsettling) prank their peers in the U.S. may have pulled at campus polling stations.

Brendan O'Kane on substack)

The Southern Ming)* *by Lynn Struve, 1984

The Great Enterprise: The Manchu Reconstruction of Imperial Order in Seventeenth-Century China) by Frederic Wakeman, 1986

Voices from the Ming-Qing Cataclysm: China in the Tiger's Jaws). Edited and translated by Lynn A. Struve, 1993