NSA Mike Waltz, Sen. Rand Paul, Rep. Jim Himes
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the official website for deals. Or stop by your local Toyota dealer to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington, and this week on Face the Nation, the tsunami of activity shaking up Washington and beyond continues. And President Trump prods Ukraine and Russia toward peace.

Overnight, the U.S. pounded Iranian-backed Houthi targets in Yemen again. And the backlash grows over the Trump administration's deportation of alleged Venezuelan gang members. We'll talk to White House National Security Advisor Mike Walz, the head of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, Kentucky Republican Rand Paul, and the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Connecticut's Jim Himes.

Meanwhile, members of Congress may have been happy to head home for recess last week, but now they may be eager to get back to Washington. As elected officials on both sides of the aisle got fearful from angry constituents. The message that was sent by Democrats in Congress

with the CR catastrophe was clear. It's not that you're in the minority. It's that you aren't even working together on a shared strategy, and that is failure. -Why do you believe that President Trump is above the law? Why have you not spoken out for him? -Plus, measles infections have now been reported in 18 states. We'll consult with former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb about that.

and talk about the impact of Trump's cuts on medical research. It's all just ahead on Face the Nation. Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. There is a lot to cover on the home front, but we begin first on national security. In just a few hours, U.S. officials will be holding talks with Ukraine and tomorrow a separate round with Russia in pursuit of a 30-day ceasefire.

In the meantime, the Trump administration is ramping up the U.S. military presence in the Middle East, sending a second aircraft carrier to the region. We begin this morning with White House National Security Advisor Mike Waltz. Good to have you here. Thanks, Margaret. So the Iran-backed Houthis, they continue to fire at Israel. What is the last week of bombing achieved? And if you're holding Iran responsible, what's next?

Well, we've taken out key Houthi leadership, including their head missileer. We've hit their headquarters. We've hit communications nodes, weapons factories, and even some of their over-the-water drone production facilities. Just in the last couple of days, President Trump has decided to hit the Houthis and hit them hard.

as opposed to in the last administration where literally weeks or months would go by with these kind of one-off pinprick attacks. And as a result, we've had one of the world's most critical sea lanes get shut down. I mean, these guys are like Al Qaeda or ISIS with advanced cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and some of the most sophisticated air defenses all provided by Iran. Just to

So everybody understands the impact here. The last time one of our destroyers went through the straits there, it was attacked 23 times. Seventy-five percent of our U.S. flag shipping now has to go around the southern coast of Africa rather than going through the Suez Canal. And keeping the sea lanes open, keeping trade and commerce open is a fundamental aspect of our national security. The last administration was not effective.

The Trump administration and President Trump have decided to do something much harder, much tougher and much. And what we'll see, but I think will be much more effective. So the president said he's going to hold Iran responsible as well. Envoy Steve Witkoff said in an interview that Iran had responded to this U.S. outreach via multiple channels.

in regard to a letter sent by the president. Witkoff described it as an offer to Iran to create a verification program so nobody worries about weaponization of nuclear material. Can you clarify, is the U.S. seeking the dismantlement of Iran's nuclear program or verification like what President Obama put in place back in 2015 and President Trump pulled out of?

Full dismantlement Iran has to give up its program in a way that the entire world can see and this is look as president as President Trump has said this is coming to a head all options are on the table and

And it is time for Iran to walk away completely from its desire to have a nuclear weapon. And they will not and cannot be allowed to have a nuclear weapons program. That's enrichment, that is weaponization, and that is its strategic missile program. Can you only imagine...

We've seen the death and destruction that they're doing through its proxies between Hezbollah, the Assad regime, the Houthis, and what have you. If they had nuclear weapons, the entire Middle East would explode in an arms race. That is completely unacceptable to our national security. I won't get into what the back and forth has been, but Iran is in the worst place it has been.

from its own national security since 1979, thanks to Hezbollah, Hamas, the Assad regime, and its own air defenses being taken out by the Israelis. So there's still a chance for diplomacy.

I know, of course, I mean, the president has all options on the table, but we want to be clear. This isn't some kind of, you know, kind of tit for tat that we had under the Obama administration or Biden. This is the full program. Give it up or there'll be consequences. I want to ask you closer to home what has been happening here with Trend de Aragua, TDA, we're going to call them, which have been designated by the Trump administration as terrorists.

Last Saturday, 238 Venezuelan men were handed over to the government of El Salvador. 137 of them were deported using this rarely used 1789 Alien Enemies Act. This is important because it gives the power to detain and deport without a court hearing first, if they come from countries at war with the U.S.,

In the hearing on Friday, it was revealed that El Salvador, where they're being held, rejected two of the people. One, on the basis of gender, because it was a woman and they can't be held at a maximum security prison. The other, because the person wasn't even Venezuelan at all. How does that kind of high consequence mistake happen?

Well, these kind of one-offs we'll deal with on an individual basis. But Margaret, the underlying issue here is twofold. So there was a mistake that you acknowledged here? I can't speak to those individual cases and the details of the individual cases. But what I can speak to is President Trump has determined that this group is acting as a terrorist organization. It is terrorizing our communities through attacks, torture, rape,

and the most awful of situations for those communities, number one. And number two, the Alien and Sedition Act fully applies because we have also determined that this group is acting as a proxy of the Maduro regime. I'm sorry, just to clarify on that.

This is supposed to apply if the US is at war with a country. You are saying you have evidence that the government of Venezuela is directing these gangs? We are saying that TDA is acting as a proxy of the Maduro regime. This is how the Alien and Sedition Act applies, and we cannot have district judges

interfering with the commander-in-chief's actions to take care of, in the way he deems necessary, a terrorist organization. So the U.S. is at war with Venezuela? And I got to tell you, we can debate on Article 2, Article 3. That's a fair debate. However, in this case, the commander-in-chief, President Trump, is taking decisive action to rid our communities of these gangs that are operating in a paramilitary fashion and that we know...

Maduro was deliberately emptying his prisons in a proxy manner to influence and attack the United States. That's so different. The U.S. is not at war with the country of Venezuela. I know the attorney general said on another network she thinks this is going to go to the Supreme Court. Sure, that's fine. You want to have this fight. No, but Margaret, we have instances where the IRGC from Iran have

operated to buy with and through Mexican cartels to then bomb facilities here in the United States. We've taken decisive action in that regard. We're going to take decisive action in this regard. And we're making a Washington, D.C. distinction when the American people are tired of being terrorized by these gangs. No one is defending gangs, but

Well, but it sounds like it. It certainly sounds like it from the Democrats on the other side. It sounds like in the case of this judge that wanted to turn a flight around full of gang members that had intelligence packets that had determined what they're doing. There was a woman sent to a man's prison and El Salvador said no.

I mean, so it's a question of if I can't speak to those individual details, if you want to court that, you get the list right. But right. You can verify that these people are gang members. Every one of them were here illegally. So, first of all, we had every right and every and should deport every one of these individuals. If you want to make a special case for one, that's fine. But underlying that underlying that is the Alien Act.

that has determined that the commander in chief has the absolute authority to do this. - We'll talk about this more with the Homeland Security Committee Chair Rand Paul ahead, I'm sure. I need to get to Ukraine with you because this is active diplomacy, as we mentioned. The Ukrainians accepted this U.S. ceasefire without preconditions, according to the announcement. The Russians said only holding back on energy infrastructure.

What's the goal out of these talks that are about to begin in Saudi Arabia? Yeah, well, first, we're moving closer and we're closer to peace than we ever have been.

This started with President Trump talking to both leaders back to back. We then Secretary of State Rubio and I engaged the Russians, engaged the Ukrainians at our level. And now we have technical teams actually with Ukrainians and Russians in the same facility conducting proximity talks. And the progression of

will be we have this ceasefire on aerial infrastructure. That went in place immediately after President Trump's call with President Putin this week. We are now going to talk about a Black Sea maritime ceasefire so that both sides can move grain, fuel, and start conducting trade again in the Black Sea. And then we'll talk the line of control, which is the actual front lines. And that gets into the details of

verification mechanisms, peacekeeping, freezing the lines where they are, and then, of course, the broader and permanent peace, which will be some type of discussion of territory for permanent peace and a lasting peace, what the Ukrainians tend to talk about or

have talked about as security guarantees. One of the things the president has said he wants to see is the return of these Ukrainian children who were abducted as part of a state program by Russia to russify them, take them from their families and move them into Russia.

Why did the State Department cut off funding to one of the programs that helps find these kids? It's a Yale University program. And they said the money was cut off. There are senators, including Grassley and Tillis, who want to know why. Do you know why? Well, Secretary Rubio is conducting a review of all of those programs. I can't speak to that specific one, but I can say that President Trump has spoken to both leaders about

about prisoner exchanges. Both the Russians and Ukrainians exchanged prisoners, nearly 200, immediately following their call. And he's also talked about the future of these children. So that's certainly first and foremost in kind of confidence-building measures. But again, Margaret, we have to take a step back. We have to take a step back. Just a few months ago,

No one was talking about how this war would end. And we have to ask ourselves, what would it look like a year from now, two years from now, three years from now? We were in an endless stalemate here. And now we have both sides in the same facility with the United States really fighting.

living out, I think, in real time President Trump's vision to end this war, which he campaigned on. Just to be clear, are you asking for the release of these children as a confidence-building measure? Is that what you meant? We're talking through a number of confidence-building measures. That's one of them. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Mike Pauls. All right. Face the Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us. As a parent, you want to give your child every opportunity to succeed. But let's be honest. Some

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And we turn now to Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul. He is the chair of the Homeland Security Committee, and he joins us this morning from Bowling Green, Kentucky. Good morning to you, Senator. Good morning. Thanks for having me. Sure. Because of your role in Homeland Security, I want to follow up where we left off with National Security Advisor Waltz. There are legal questions around using these authorities to send

without giving them a day in court. But there's also just questions of how it's being handled in regard to these individuals who were rejected by El Salvador, one for gender, one because they weren't Venezuelan at all. Do these concern, does any of this concern you along with claims from their family members that many of these people weren't gang members?

You know, there are some big legal questions here. On the one hand, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, to persons. The Bill of Rights doesn't specifically designate citizens. It's really anyone in the United States the Bill of Rights applies to. On the other hand, the Alien and Enemies Act simply says you really don't get much process. The president can simply declare that you are somehow a problem for foreign policy and opposed to our foreign policy, and you can be deported.

So really, ultimately, this goes to the court and then the court's going to have to decide, are they going to declare unconstitutional law that's been around for a couple hundred years or are they going to defer to Congress? If you look at the TikTok decision recently, which I don't agree with, but in the TikTok decision, the court basically said, we're going to defer to Congress. Congress says this is about national security and who are we to question Congress? Right, and then the president issued an executive order that defied what Congress did.

Right, right. But my point is, is I think the court should have ruled on the First Amendment with regard to TikTok and not said, oh, well, whatever Congress wants. But if you look at the TikTok decision and you had to guess what the Supreme Court's going to do, my guess is they'll uphold the Alien and Enemies Act. It's not necessarily my position, but I think the court will uphold it.

so it's at least debatable on both sides who's right or who's wrong here and i think it's not correct for democrats to simply say oh it's constitutional chaos there's no leg to stand on there actually is legal authority on the one hand that's been around for over 200 years but just we're not talking about partisan politics we're talking about the courts right now and what the judge said he had questions about and talks about this being done you know essentially in the cover of night

This seems to be an argument the administration wants to have go to the Supreme Court. Are you comfortable with bypassing what you described as, you know, what's guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, a day in court, or at least some verification that some of these people actually are guilty in some way of what they're accused of, which is membership in a gang?

So we have a contradiction. We basically have the Constitution that says everyone, persons in the United States, have due process rights, have the Bill of Rights on their side. But we also have law that has been in power for 200 years saying, oh, well, except for when the president wants to deport people. So these are in conflict. There will have to be some decision-making.

On the question of whether or not a district judge can make a ruling for the whole country, that's also a very big question. I suspect as this works its way up to the Supreme Court, when you get to the Supreme Court, I do believe the Supreme Court is going to limit district judges from having nationwide rulings. I think that's also in the offing. These are huge legal questions and the only way they begin is by a challenge.

If the president doesn't challenge these, they never have standing and never get to court. So on the one hand, the president is generating this, but it's the only way to generate a final conclusion from the court. It just sounds, I mean, these are debates for law professors, certainly. But in the meantime, there are individuals who may have been sent wrongly to these facilities that are outside the U.S. jurisdiction. Are you comfortable as the man with oversight, as chair of the committee, with what's being done?

I think the courts will rule that there has to be some process. I don't think you are going to be able to deport people. So yes, you're comfortable with it. So no, I, well, I don't think you're answering for me. I think there is going to be some process afforded by the courts for representation before you're deported in most cases.

I don't know about the ones under the Alien and Enemies Act, and I'm not sure anybody knows that. And while I love constitutional law, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, I do think it goes to the Supreme Court, and there are arguments to be made on both sides of this question. Got it. I want to ask you about some congressional business. I've seen it reported that you have pitched to Elon Musk a plan to claw back $500 billion in federal funding that Congress has already approved.

There was an effort back in 2018 to do something like this, and it failed. Do you think you can actually get this done in a rescission package? And how much money do you think you can get back? Well, this goes to another huge legal question. Can the president impound money or does he have to send it back? And we approve the cuts through rescission. And this is going all the way to the Supreme Court also, because I think the Trump administration believes they can just not spend it.

There's another question within the question, can the president and his people, can Secretary Rubio pause the spending? On that issue, I think they will win. You will be able to pause spending as long as you don't go through the end of an appropriations year. If you get through that, I believe it's impoundment. And I think the courts so far have said it has to come back.

and less as the Trump administration argues that the Empowerment Act is unconstitutional. So this one's headed to the Supreme Court also. It is my personal belief we should adhere to the law as it is now, and that is send it back and have Congress confirm it. It's a simple majority vote. It's called rescission. I did mention this to Elon Musk. He seemed enthusiastic. It can be done. No Democrats, you have to realize, no Democrats will cut one penny from any spending anywhere.

But can we get all the Republicans is the real question. You can get 51 Republicans, you think, to get on board with this? Well, I think the president is going to have to use effectively his bully pulpit and his popularity to convince all Republicans to do it. It's not a given that Republicans will vote for this. We tried it once in the first administration. It was only $15 billion, and we lost. We lost two Republicans. But my suggestion to the Trump administration

My suggestion to the Trump administration is come to the Republicans who you suspect might have misgivings and convince them in advance. Don't put it in their lap. Bring them 500 billion and if they say, "This 10 billion I can't deal with. I can deal with the 490." You're going to have to pre-negotiate the rescissions package, but I think you could get there.

I want to ask you about the Department of Education. States, as everyone I think knows, provide the majority of the funding and oversight for your local schools. But Kentucky,

when we looked at the numbers, gets the fourth most federal education funding per student of any state in this country. You have over 900 schools that have these Title I programs, which are low-income schools who need that federal subsidy to continue to operate. How are schools going to get that money if the president closes the education department?

I think the bigger question, if we're sending all this money to Kentucky and all the other states, why are our scores abysmal? Why do two-thirds of the kids not read at proficiency? Why do two-thirds of the kids or more not have math proficiency? Isn't that up to the state? So it's been an utter failure. What I'd like to... Let me finish. I'd leave it back to the states.

It has always been a position, a very mainstream Republican position to have control of the schools by the states, send the money back to the states or better yet, never take it from the states. About half of our budget in Kentucky goes to education and that's the same in a lot of states.

I think we can handle it much better. When I talk to teachers, they chafe at the national mandates on testing they think are not appropriate for their kids. They think they waste too much time teaching to national testing. The teachers would like more autonomy and I think the teachers deserve more autonomy. - But when we looked at the budget in Kentucky, the state receives 2 billion in federal education funding. Do you have a guarantee that the federal government, federal taxpayers will still provide 2 billion in education funding?

That seems important to your state. I'd rather, well, no, what I'd rather is a guarantee that my kids can read and write and do math. The amount of dollars, look, the number of dollars has gone up exponentially and our scores have gone the other way. So dollars are not proportional to educational success. What I want is success.

and i've talked a lot about this i think there are innovations we can do where there's more learning via some of the best teachers and we pay them more i would like to have an nba or nfl of teachers the most extraordinary teachers teach the entire country who would run that education department some of them

No, what you'd find is they'd be selected out state by state across the nation. Look, people say, oh, the Department of Education would have no testing. I was in school before then. We did achievement tests in the sixth grade, the fifth grade, the eighth grade, and we compared ourselves across state lines. There were international testing. You don't need the Department of Education for any of that. But what I can tell you is the best teacher in the world is not teaching the kids

What we need to do is have the best teachers and pay them more, but they wouldn't teach 30 kids. They might teach 10 million kids at a time because it would be presented through the internet with local teachers reinforcing the lessons. Well, I'm sure we'll be talking more about this. Senator Paul, thank you for your time today.

If you miss an episode of Face the Nation or want to see an extended interview, you can find it all on YouTube and our website. Or if you prefer to listen, you can subscribe to our podcast. Just search Face the Nation. And we'll be right back with the top Democrat in the House Intelligence Committee, Jim Himes. If fashion is your thing, eBay is it.

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Welcome back to Face the Nation. We turn now to the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Connecticut Congressman Jim Himes. He joins us this morning from Greenwich. Good morning to you. I want to jump right into it on the conversation about this Venezuelan gang.

You have said some of your fellow Democrats have been too quick to use the term constitutional crisis. But because of the use of the Alien Enemies Act and this gang, you have started to become concerned that's where we are. Can you explain that?

Yeah, that's right, Margaret, and thanks for having me. You know, constitutional crisis is a sort of broadly used term. Lots of people have different definitions for it. It's a lot of stuff you don't like. I'll tell you what I know is a constitutional crisis. If the president of the United States decides to ignore the orders of a court, we have not seen that since Andrew Jackson did that in 1834. When that happens, you have a supine order.

on its back Congress of the United States, completely beholden to the president, not acting as a check. And if the president says, I don't care what the courts say, which by the way, he has not said, but which Tom Homan, his czar for deportations, has said, now you have a full-blown constitutional crisis. So I think these next couple of days, as we see

how this administration goes after the many judges and the many courts, many of these judges appointed by Republican presidents who are stopping the wild and illegal actions of this administration. We're going to see whether we are in a true, you know, Jacksonian constitutional crisis.

Because of your role on the Intelligence Committee, I know you have some visibility into the assessments of U.S. intelligence. The New York Times reported that the intelligence community said with moderate confidence that the gang, TDA, that we've been talking about, is not directed by the Venezuelan government. However, the National Security Advisor just told us on this program TDA is acting as a proxy of

of the Venezuelan government. Why does that distinction matter?

Yeah, well, it doesn't matter and I'll come back around to that. But look, what people worry about is that this administration acts with a unbelievable kind of cocktail of incompetence and illegality. When you fire all of the people at the Department of Energy who look after our nuclear weapons and then say, oopsie, we need to hire you back, that's incompetence. I listened to Mike. Mike is a friend of mine. I have respect for Mike. But what he did was dodge your question.

I'm not a lawyer, but I can read the first paragraph of the Aliens Enemy Act, which says very clearly that the authority that this administration claims is dependent on a declaration of war, not on acting as a proxy. So Mike distorted the law. And, you know, I read the New York Times article, too. I haven't seen specific intelligence about whether there's any connection whatsoever between –

Venezuela and the TDA gang. But you're right. The New York Times, by the way, I'll get an answer on this tomorrow and I'm going to have some questions for Mike. The New York Times, of course, reported that there's that the intelligence community believes that there's not a meaningful connection between Venezuela and the TDA gang. So, again, it's a bizarre story.

combination of acting incompetently because maybe there's a Venezuelan hairdresser, a gay Venezuelan hairdresser with no connection to TDA. And if he's in this country illegally, fine, deport him. But to do it in this way under authorities that are not legal is not the way to do this. You're referring there to some reporting in Time magazine about what happened to some of these one particular detainee.

On Friday, the Justice Department announced a criminal investigation into what they described as the leak of classified intelligence about this group, TDA. The deputy attorney general said they won't tolerate politically motivated efforts by the deep state to undercut President Trump's agenda by leaking false information to The New York Times. Do you have any concern or is there concern within the intelligence community about these leaks?

There's always concerns about leaks, Margaret. And as ranking member of the Intelligence Committee, I don't care who a leak benefits, whether it benefits Joe Biden or Donald Trump or whatever. They are not OK. They are violations of the law. It's very interesting, though, that characterization that you just read, that we will not tolerate leaks that are inconsistent with President Trump's agenda. And this gets at one of my worst fears.

with respect to the national security apparatus under Donald Trump. Everything is about Donald Trump, right? And where I work inside and overseeing the intelligence community, it is absolutely essential that the intelligence community be about one thing and one thing only, which is giving Donald Trump and other national leaders unvarnished, unbiased advice. And if this is all about serving the president's agenda, that is a notion that is completely at odds

with what the intelligence community and what we spend $90 billion on making sure that policymakers, the president-in-chief amongst them, has good information.

I was listening to a town hall that you did this past Thursday in Connecticut, and you were asked who the leader of the Democratic Party is. You threw out some of the sort of known entities, governors out there. But you said, while the party is not leaderless, Hakeem Jeffries is young and untested, and Leader Schumer is not a wartime president. Do you think that your party can afford to stay the course with the existing leadership they have?

Margaret, I think we can do a lot better job with the leadership that we had. What I was acknowledging in that town hall meeting, and I will tell you, I've seen a lot of town hall meetings. I saw Chuck Grassley's town hall meeting. I saw my colleagues from Wyoming's Ruby Red, Wyoming's Time in the Barrel. And people are outraged. They're outraged mainly, by the way, because they're coming to understand what Medicaid cuts are going to look like for them, what it means to obliterate

programs that so much of the country, 70 million people in the case of Medicaid, rely on. So there's an immense amount of anger. What I do know is that it was not a good look for the two congressional Democratic leaders to be on opposite sides of the continuing resolution. That created a great deal of agita out there, and legitimately so. So I am quite certain that Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer have learned from this experience and are going to, at a minimum, be unified going forward here.

We will see. Congressman Jim Himes will be watching you in that worldwide threat briefing that'll be happening this coming week. We turn now to America's health care system and former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He's also a board member at Pfizer. Welcome back to Face the Nation. Thank you. So measles is now in 18 states, as I understand it, mostly Texas and New Mexico. But we have seen a growing number of infections, particularly in children.

What do parents need to know? And are adults protected? Adults who've been vaccinated should be protected. This vaccine provides durable immunity. And there's no recommendation that anyone who's already been vaccinated had the full schedule of two doses of vaccine when they were children would need to get another booster. But if people are concerned, they can check their titers. The only recommendation that CDC makes is people who are taking care of those with measles, perhaps health care workers might consider an additional booster later in life.

The bigger challenge is with children. So children get vaccinated, as you know, at one year. And then again, when they're entering school at around age four, there's a window where children probably don't have a lot of immunity. So a child born has some immunity passed from their mom up until about six months. But there's a window between six and 12 months where they're largely unprotected.

Typically, we don't vaccinate at six months because babies don't have developed immune systems where they can develop a durable immunity from an immunization like this. But there are some recommendations now that children between the ages of six and 12 months might get a first dose of vaccine. They would still require a second dose at age one and a third dose at age four. I saw the former CDC director, Rochelle Walensky, was talking about that this past week.

The current secretary of HHS, Secretary Kennedy, has said he wants anyone who desires the vaccine, MMR, to be able to get one. But he also describes himself as a, quote, freedom of choice person. I want to get your analysis of what seemed to be a suggested alternative treatment. They're getting very, very good results. They report from a

Budesonide, which is a steroid, it's a 30-year-old steroid, and clarithromycin, and also cod liver oil, which has high concentrations of vitamin A and vitamin D. And they're seeing what they describe as almost miraculous and instantaneous recovery from that. Are those viable alternatives?

They're not viable alternatives to vaccination, and I'd much prefer if he made a full-throated recommendation to parents to get kids vaccinated, especially in a setting of the regions where this virus is now

He's talking about steroids and antibiotics. Those would be used in the setting of a child who's developed pneumonitis, is hospitalized, has respiratory distress. And so you might dose them with antibiotics to prevent secondary infections. And the steroids can reduce some of the inflammation in the lungs. The hope is children don't get into that kind of distress situation because they've been vaccinated. As far as vitamin A is concerned,

There's really scant evidence that it's effective in this setting. It's used in the setting of malnourished children where it might provide some benefit.

But I think talking about those kinds of therapeutics in this context creates a false impression that there's treatments available for measles when, in fact, there's not. The only way to prevent measles and prevent the sequelae from measles is to get vaccinated. You know, it's the same way people may consider whether or not they choose to get vaccinated for influenza, for the flu. Some people might make a decision not to get vaccinated because they know therapeutics are available. I certainly wouldn't recommend that.

that they do that. I think everyone should get vaccinated for influenza, but some people might make that choice. There is no choice in this setting. There's nothing effective at mitigating the effects of measles once you get it. So the only way to do that is to get vaccinated. Yeah. The CDC website describes vitamin A as supportive care, but vaccination, the best defense. So thank you for explaining that. There's no CDC director right now.

The administration had to pull their nominee, as you know, because they couldn't get enough votes. Alex Tin here at CBS is reporting Florida's Surgeon General and a former Texas congressman, Michael Burgess, are both being floated for the job. How important is it to get someone confirmed and in the role quickly?

Yeah, I think it's very important, especially when you see what's going on around the country with this measles outbreak in West Texas. We may have more measles cases this year than we've had in 25 years. And so having leadership at the CDC that can direct that response is exceedingly important.

Mike Burgess ran the Health Subcommittee on Energy and Commerce, worked closely with the FDA when I was there. He was very good, very effective. He did a lot to advance our interdiction work in mail facilities to stop opioids from flowing through those facilities. He was very dedicated to that effort, actually visited the mail facility in New York at JFK Airport

to see firsthand the operation before he led a charge in Congress to help provide more funding to get more inspectors into those facilities. He has a lot of experience in a lot of the areas where CDC has a very relevant mission.

And they'll have to face a potential vote once the president makes a selection here. I want to ask about some of the byproducts and some of them deliberate cuts from the president's so-called belt tightening here.

There have been impacts at, for example, Johns Hopkins, an institute that does medical research and receives USAID grants. There are also deliberate cuts that have been vowed at Columbia and UPenn, two universities that get federal funding and do health research. Do you have any insight into how many health programs or the significance of the health programs that will be affected?

Yeah, I don't think anyone has insight into it yet. I think this is still playing out. These impacts are happening across a couple of different domains. There's restrictions on the ability to go forward with new grants because of limitations, for example, posting things in the Federal Register. There's new grant-making policies that are being implemented, so certain entities, certain countries are being added to lists where you can't do research. There were recently some grants canceled that coincided with research that would be done in conjunction

with China. They're terminating certain grants on the basis of policy considerations, like whether or not they have a certain DEI component and however they're defining that. And then you see the institutional wide cuts. I think that's what happened to Johns Hopkins with respect to the USAID cuts. It's also what happened to Columbia with respect to that $400 million federal cut that impacted a lot of research. So there's multiple domains where they're being impacted right now. This is

this isn't all Doge-led. I think we need to be very careful when it comes to research programs where patients are involved. If you make a mistake with a program like a website that you took down, you can always put it back up. But when you cut a grant to a program where patients are involved, where continuity of care is really important to those patients, you need to make accommodation for that or not make those cuts in the first place. I do know I've had some conversations. I think Doge is aware of that and trying to be mindful of those impacts.

It's an important point to be strategic when it comes to medical care. Dr. Gottlieb, thank you for your insight. We'll be back in a moment. Operation Old Glory is Comcast's program where employees replace worn American flags in their communities free of cost. The flag replacement program got started by a good friend of mine, a Navy vet, who saw the flag at the office that needed to be replaced and said, wouldn't this be great if this would be something that we did for anyone?

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We return now to the Venezuelan deportation case. And for what's next, we're joined by our Justice Department correspondent, Scott McFarland, and our immigration reporter, Camilo Montoya-Galvez. It's good to have you both here. Camilo, you did some extraordinary reporting this week and obtained the names of the migrants who were sent to El Salvador. That's information that the administration refused to share with the federal judge, but you got it. What did you learn?

We're still investigating every single case on this list of 238 Venezuelan men who were sent to El Salvador to be in prison there. But this is what we know. We know that according to court filings and also our own findings here at CBS News, some of the people on this list do have criminal histories in the U.S. or abroad in countries like Peru, Chile, and Colombia. But we also know that according to the government, many of these people do not have

any criminal record in the U.S., and we have received documents from lawyers and attorneys and also the family members of the deportees who say that these people, some of them, do not have any criminal history in the U.S., but the administration is accusing all of them of being part of this transnational gang known as Tren de Aragua. But how that accusation is being made is at the center of this story. The administration says they have used intelligence and other techniques to identify

identify these people as suspected TDA members, but their relatives and their lawyers say that some of these men were identified as TDA simply because of tattoos.

And that is really where we get to the legal nub of this argument is, can you, as Senator Paul was saying, bypass the right to a day in court on the basis of someone having some tattoos? So, Scott, the Trump administration is going to have this appeal tomorrow, as I understand it. You were in federal court Friday when the judge said it was, quote, awfully frightening how the administration stretched the law.

They are looking for this fight. There's two different fights they're looking for. The legal is one of them. They're going to be in the appeals court tomorrow. They'll go to the Supreme Court potentially eventually trying to consolidate power to make it an 18th century reality right now where you can expel people who are locked up currently on U.S. soil without having to go through the courts, even though the courts are trying to catch mistakes and make sure nobody scooped up erroneously. Even though you could deport them anyhow. You could still deport them anyhow.

That's one fight they're looking to fight. There's also the political one, Margaret. There is so much political upside to all of this for the Trump administration. And you heard that from the National Security Advisor a few moments ago when he told you this is a D.C. distinction, that the administration is not exactly concerned about looking too aggressive in deporting suspected gang members. There's all kinds of wins there. And then there's the other one, Margaret. The

the villainization of Washington, D.C. federal judges, which galvanized the conservative base and the Trump base. And you saw that Friday in the courtroom with the judge, James Boasberg, pushing back on the president's allegations that he just wants to set these gang members free. The judge said...

They're still locked up. You can deport them the normal way without invoking this 18th century law. Let's see how much more pushback there is from the president to this judge. There was more overnight on Truth Social. Yes, he's spoken about it. He's posted about this judge raising other concerns. Camilo, though,

You actually have reported out what was done behind the scenes to bring this all to a head, to set up this fight. What did you learn? What I can tell you is that based on conversations with DHS sources, the administration was actively preparing for this operation well before the president actually signed this proclamation, unbeknownst to the public last Friday, before the White House actually published the actual proclamation on Saturday, March 15, and before those planes took office. Meaning to do it as quickly as possible?

That's right. They staged a roundup across the country of suspected TDA members and transferred those people to a Texas detention center. And by the time the judge held the first emergency hearing on this case, there were already two planes in the air and another one ready to take off. Knowing that they might have to face a fight back in the court. Scott,

The president has issued at least three executive orders that we have clocked, impacting private law firms who represented clients at odds with President or then Mr. Trump.

That's bad for private business. One of those law firms cut a deal, $40 million. What's the impact here? - I talked to one of the lawyers who's been targeted by one of these actions. He says, "They're trying to take me off the playing field. They're trying to take others off the playing field as we continue to challenge the administration in court." A chilling effect to make it harder to file these lawsuits that have been the firewall so far in the Trump administration. But there's a distinction in the latest round of actions.

prohibiting these law firms based in Washington from doing business in government buildings or with government employees. That is a death sentence for a Washington, D.C. law firm. In fact, one of those firms, Perkins Coie, the ones challenging this in court, said as much to the judge. This would kill us. And the judge here in Washington has for now held off on the Trump executive action to strip Perkins Coie.

But we'll see how long that protection lasts. And this has knock-on effects for others seeking legal services, but also, as you said, makes them hard to just function. Especially the stripping of security clearances, Margaret, that makes it harder for a whistleblower at the FBI or the CIA or the Pentagon to find a lawyer to blow the whistle. Makes it possible such whistles will not be blown. Right, because they need to seek counsel who have ability to deal with classified information. Camilo,

The administration announced Friday they're revoking legal status of half a million migrants who came here legally from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua and Venezuela during President Biden's terms. This is an this is another fight they wanted to have. But if the intention, the stated intention is to go after the worst of the worst and deport them.

Why focus on people who bothered to be here legally? Well, the administration would argue that the Biden administration abused its immigration executive authority to create this program without Congress and that the people who came here under this policy are undercutting American workers and that they are essentially illegal immigrants as well. And now they are turning them into immigrants.

into illegal immigrants by stripping them of their legal status, their work permits, their deportation protections. Right now, they have, for the next 30 days, a chance to self-deport through a smartphone app. If they don't do that, DHS is warning that they will be found, arrested, and deported from the country. And this crackdown on immigration by the administration is also extending to other parts of the immigration system. We also know that the administration is suspending funding, federal funding, for legal services providers and lawyers to

help who help migrant children who have left federal custody or who are still in federal custody and who are facing deportation. And this is all intentional that taking funding away even from this administration does not believe that federal funds should be used for people who are in the country illegally or without legal permission. Gentlemen, you're going to be busy. Thank you for breaking it all down for us. I appreciate it. Thank you. We'll be right back.

That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week. For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan. Today's guests were White House National Security Advisor Mike Walz, Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul, Connecticut Democratic Congressman Jim Himes, and former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. The senior executive producer of Face the Nation is Mary Hager, and the executive producer is Ann Hsu. This broadcast was directed by Shelley Schwartz.

Face the Nation originates from CBS News in Washington. For more, we're online at facethenation.com and on YouTube. We're also rebroadcast on our CBS News 24-7 streaming network at 1230 on Sundays, and we're available through our apps, CBS News and Paramount Plus.