Let's Start A Magazine
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Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Sweet Paul Podcast, Chasing the Sweet Things in Life, episode 19.

Yes, take two. Take two. So, okay. This is what happened. We did earlier today a Instagram live taping of the podcast. And what I realized after I said...

Okay, we're going to take a little break after the first segment was that I actually never pressed the button. The record button. Yeah. So we're re-taping this. So we're re-taping this. We're sorry about that. So the two next segments that's going to come was from our live studio audience. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Exactly. So, yes, this is take two. Yeah, because we're trying to do more interesting things since we're quarantined. And clearly we can't do two things at one time. No, it's hard for me to press two buttons. Yes. So, here we are again. We're again coming to you from our house arrest. Yes. Palm Springs. Our universal house arrest.

Hope everyone's doing well, staying sane. You know, every day is like we try to do something. Yesterday was grocery shopping. Today, our huge outing is the post office. Yeah, so glamorous. So glamorous. I'm just trying not to touch anything. I'm going to try to go for a long walk today, like a fast, long walk. So we'll see how that goes.

Every time I go outside, I feel like I'm looking around for zombies. I know. It's a little... What's the word? Post-apocalyptic? Yes. Apocalyptic? It actually is. Anyway... Because, you know, we're trying to stay...

We're trying to stay active, creative. Yeah, I have to do something. I set up a little studio in the garage. I can do some ceramics. And James is working on some projects. And, you know, we're trying. We're trying. Yes. So what is this episode called? Starting Sweetball Magazine. That's what it's going to be called. Literally, like, Starting Sweetball Magazine. Well, to be determined.

But yes, this is the episode I've been waiting for. This is where we talk about when you actually started Sweet Paul magazine. Yeah. So as I said in the last episode that working...

for all these American magazines starting to become kind of boring. I felt like no one wanted to do anything fun. Everything was so controlled. And, you know, I talked about the magazine shoot I had where the editor-in-chief had made like chocolate cake, Halloween chocolate cake with

You know that tombstone cake with the, you know, used chocolate cookies as dirt? And the comment back was that it looked too expensive because there was too much dirt. I kind of lost it. Yeah. And told everyone that I'm done. I'm over it. Officially. I didn't stop right away. But that day I went back to my ex and I said, I think I want to start my own magazine.

And that idea had always been there in the back of my head. But, you know, if your last name isn't Hearst or Rockefeller or, you know, something, it's, you know, it's hard to do. It's expensive. It's very expensive. But the first online magazine had just launched, which was called Lommy. It was like home decor magazine. And I thought, oh, I can kind of do that. Yeah.

So had you already started Sweetpaw as a blog at that point? Yes. So I've had the blog for like three or four years. That was actually one of the first thing I did when I moved to America. Because my agent said to me, okay, you kind of need a website where people can see your work. And I had my friend Janne back in Norway. She had a blog called

She got comments and stuff, and I was like, oh, that's cool. I want comments and stuff. Yeah. So I said to my agent, can I start a blog instead of a website and make it kind of like more personal? Yeah. And she was like, yeah, that's a great idea. So that's how the blog started. Cool. Instead of like just a traditional portfolio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So shout out to Miss Janne in Norway. Stay safe. Norway is badly hit too. The whole world. I know, I know.

Yeah, so, you know, I started a blog and called it Sweet Paul because of, you know, I was thinking about, oh, what am I going to call it? And then I was like, oh, yeah, they used to call me Sweet Paul when I was a kid. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's perfect. And I can remember the first time I got a comment from someone that was not a family member or a friend. I was so excited. What did they say?

Like, this is beautiful. Yeah, they said something positive. I've made it. Yeah. And then one of the first, one of the big design blogs in Sweden reposted a picture of mine. And I got so many new followers and so much comments. And back then it was, people were very engaged with,

Yeah, because it was the start of digital media. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, posts could get like 100 comments. It was like crazy. Today, you're lucky if you get like five. Yeah. And another thing I did was that I started a blog and then I sent out like a press release to all the other blogs. Yeah. Like the big ones and saying that, you know,

this is what I do. I'm here. I started the blog, blah, blah, blah. And some posted about it and some were like, well, if you're here in three months, I'll do something. Yeah, yeah. And she did. It was Grace Bonney from Design Sponge. So I had the blog and then my frustration with all working kind of just grew and grew and I was...

Thinking, I really want to have my own thing where no one can tell me like, oh, I don't like blue plates. Yeah. Because, you know, for example, working for Good Housekeeping, you had to go, you had to schlep all your props up to their office. No, you had to get them edited before you even did the shoot. You had to schlep the props up.

set them all up in a conference room and then the editor-in-chief would come in and be like, yes, yes, no, no, no, yes, yes, yes. I don't like that. I mean, it was just like insane. Oh my God. That's insane. I know, I know.

You would think she had something better to do than to pick up plates. It's just so inefficient to bring a bunch of stuff to the office. Like the props. It's not even like... And you know what it felt like? It felt like they never actually trusted you to do your job. Well, exactly. Yeah. It's not that. It's their way to assert their power. They don't want to... It's like make themselves necessary, even though they're not necessary. There could be 10 people in those.

meetings, picking like, I know, I know, I know. So I just wanted to have something that was mine that no one could tell me like, you can't do that. Of course. Okay. So the first thing I did, I was like, okay, I'm going to do a magazine. Let's say it's 80 pages. So I made like a mock-up. I just folded paper, you know, in half and wrote what it was going to be. And then when I had worked on that for a while and was happy, I

I started talking to all my friends who are photographers and stylists and stuff and said that, you know, I really want to start an online magazine. There's absolutely no money in it because I'm not going to sell any ads. Do you want to do something? Mm-hmm. Either with me or, you know, by yourself. And...

Everyone except one person said yes. Amazing. Yeah. He's now on the shit list. Oh, yeah. The one. Oh, my gosh. So, yeah. I managed to, in like three, four months, had enough material. So, the first issue came out online. And kind of turned into like a thing really fast. Yeah. I decided I'm going to do it quarterly. I'm going to follow the seasons. So, three months later, yeah.

The second issue came out. I think the first one was Summer. It had a peeled blood orange on the cover. It was super simple. Yeah, it was very pretty. And so people were able to download it? Yeah, so it was just online. Yeah. Yeah, people could download it. I can't remember the site I hosted it through, but...

Yeah, you download it and read it like a magazine, but on your computer. Yeah. And I got a lot of great feedback. And yeah, it was very exciting. And it felt so liberating to be able to do something that was just mine. And also, the other people I worked with, the photographers and the stylists and everything, they were just amazing.

excited because all I said to them was like, oh, do you want to do something for the magazine? I have six or I have eight pages that I need to fill. Just make something really pretty. And that was also the thing I said to the woman that designed the first issues.

I remember I had a meeting with her at the Starbucks and she asked me, do you have any like, what do you want me to do? You know, do you have any tears or anything you can show me? And I just said, I just wanted to look as beautiful as possible. And she said she never had a client who ever said that. Yeah. That's kind of amazing. Okay. We're going to take a little break and then we are going to talk about how I started printing.

So we did transition into print. And the way we did that was I was happy with it being online. And of course, I thought about that. I was like, oh, it would be great if it was in print. But, you know, that's just too expensive. And I was in my old apartment in Brooklyn. I was in the bathtub and I had my phone and I was checking emails in the bathtub. And there was an email from someone at Anthropologie.

who said that they wanted to sell the magazine. And I remember I wrote back and I was like, "Oh, thank you so much. That's so nice of you, but it's online only." So, but how we like, that's, thank you, but I don't think that's possible.

And the girl wrote back and she was like, no, no, we really want you to print this and we'll order this and this amount of stuff and we can help you find a printer and we can do all these things for you.

So, I mean, we would eventually have started printing, but that's the reason why we started printing so early. Yeah. So after a year and a half, the first printed issue came. After a year and a half. So it took a year and a half. Yeah. Yeah. So they guaranteed a certain order, which meant you knew how much money you could work with. Yes. Yes. And then...

Wow, that's amazing. I know. It's kind of like a best-case scenario and yet a little bit risky too. No, of course it was. But I was thinking, well, anthropology is such an amazing match. Yes. For the – like that's kind of – It was actually. Yeah, that's always kind of – when people ask me, so who is the reader of Sweet Paul?

I would always say it's kind of the anthropology woman. Girl, yeah. Yeah, that's what I would say. The terrain woman, the anthropology girl. Yeah, you know, sort of interested in food and craft and lifestyle and all that stuff. Yeah, so that was kind of...

the person I was thinking about. Yeah. And did you start with back issues or did you have a target issue that was going to be the first printed one? I think they said if we can have it in three months, that would be great. But it took a year and a half.

No, it took a year and a half from the first online issue came out. It took a year and a half until we started printing. Oh, no. So this deal happened quickly in three months. So the following issue was a print. Was it like fall or spring? I can't remember.

I think it actually was summer. Yeah. And of course, I mean, I would go like every anthropology I would go past, I would like walk in and I would like, oh, where is it? Where is it? Yeah. And if I couldn't see it, I would ask for it and I would move it around. Of course. I mean, if it was... When we first met, I did that too. Like I was in anthropology and...

somewhere in California when I was visiting my family and I was like snooping around and I moved it. Yeah. Yeah. I remember especially one was always one store in New York city that would always give it the really bad spot. Yeah. And I don't know why. That's, that's the problem with most because you know, if they're not instructed to make certain things a priority, then they'll just be like, cause they might just be like, what is this? It's like, well, the company fronted, uh,

Yeah, no, I know. I know. But whenever I walked into this store, the magazine was always on like a bottom shelf somewhere. Always. Yeah, it should be at the register. And I was always moving it. So someone at that anthropology didn't like me. Yeah. Enemy of Sweet Paul.

Oh my God. No, but it was, whenever I walked in, it was always on the shelf, like a bottom shelf somewhere. That's so funny. That's the struggle, yeah. And I would move it every time. It was the same when we sold at Barnes & Noble. I would always move it. To the front. To the front shelf. Yes. I know they don't like that, but I always did. Yeah, yeah, totally. Always. That's funny. Yeah.

So after I started printing, I was like, okay. And my first designer, she couldn't do it anymore because she got another job. And then I got another designer and she only did two issues. And then she was like, I can't do this anymore because it takes up too much of my time. Yeah.

So again, I posted on Facebook that I need a designer. Yeah. And by that time, you know, most people in the biz knew about Sweet Paul Magazine. Yeah. I got almost 200 applications. Are you serious? To be a designer. And I was like, how am I going to look through like 200? Like it's not going to happen. Yeah. So do you know what I did? I picked the one that was most insistent.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I really wanted it. That was Jolene in Chicago. Yes. And let me say this in terms of persistence. I love persistence. And in my job in curating markets with makers, there might be someone who I think maybe has a room to grow. But if they're persistent, I love it. Yeah. And I'll always be like, okay, come on in. Like, I love persistence. I think she wrote four emails.

saying like i really really want this i think we can work really well together yeah right and i looked up you know and i looked up uh her work and i was oh yeah this is great i think this can really work and she's still designing the magazine yeah i love it and nelly who is in st louis yes it's so funny these days because you know to run something like this you don't need an office and

Even more so now, 10 years later. Like, hello, everyone's working from home right now. I hope it actually changes the culture of America where people are realizing why commute for two hours when you can get just as much work done from home. Or maybe more. More work done from home. Because you don't have to be in like endless meetings about nothing. Exactly. Like all the busy...

bs work of like like no just like do the tasks get your job done live your life yeah yes yeah so okay so i have a question so when you started doing the blog version what was the first piece of revenue that you generated from doing sweet paul from the blog yeah

Yeah. Did any income come from the blog or was it until the magazine? I don't think so. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. So once you started doing the magazine. Because what happened was that. You didn't do any ads on your blog or anything or any brand partnerships or anything as a blog? No. I remember that it started when I sort of dwindled down the blog.

It started like you got all those emails about if you post about this, we'll give you like $50 or something. That started then. But no, when I was doing it, no, it wasn't really. Yeah. So did you sell ads for the first issue? No. The first...

three issues were ad-less. There was no ads. And then I was thinking, okay, I need to like... Because I didn't make any money of it whatsoever. The buy from anthropology was just sort of paying for... That was just paying for the print. And everyone who worked on it did it because they wanted to. Yeah, of course. Because it was also for them...

To have their work in a tangible thing. Yeah, and also because it was creative. And I, you know, if you were a stylist and you said, okay, I have a photographer. We want to do this and this. I talked to other magazines. They think it's too crazy. Would you want it? And I was like, yes, I'll print it. Yeah, for sure. So they were happy that there was somewhere that was a little more. Yeah, their work was landing. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

And it was in anthropology. I mean, that's relevant. Yeah. My ex said to me that, oh, I know this guy. His name is also Paul. He's kind of like you, like crafty and stuff. You should meet him. And I remember... Otis knew Paul? No. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Sorry to bring up exes. He said, you guys are kind of similar. You should meet him. Yeah. So I remember we met at...

I think building on bond for a coffee. Oh my gosh. So funny. And yeah, we talked and we hit it off. And I remember I was planning like this, like embroidery story, but I wasn't very good at embroidering. So I was like, oh, can you embroider? And he was like, yeah. Okay. Can you do this and this and this craft projects for me? And he was like, yeah, I can totally do that.

So that's kind of how that started. And then I would be like, oh, do you know how to do this? Do you know how to do that? Do you know how to sell ads? Do you know how to... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it kind of... Yes, I mean, just like... Grew into... It just grew into... So now he's our ad person and, you know, online sales and all that stuff. Yeah. And he put all the partnerships together for you. He put partnerships together and all that stuff. It's awesome. So, you know, I'm not doing this by myself. Yes. So how long in did...

Paul Vital join you? He joined me right after I started the anthropology. Okay. Yeah.

So it's him, it's Jolene, who's a designer, and Nelly, who's her co-designer. And then we have Lee, who's in Brooklyn, who's our copy editor. And moi. And you. Yes. And then all the contributors from around the world, the photographers. We have people working. We have Vicky, who is in Australia. Dietlin is in Germany. Mm-hmm.

Luva and Susanne is in Stockholm, Sweden. We have, yeah, sorry, I can't remember all names. But there's also all the people along the way, like even our friend John here who creates cocktail recipes for you. And, you know, it's like there's always you meet and friends start doing things. So the spring issue that's actually being sent out next, I think this week,

I went to a party and our friend Joe had made this really beautiful flatbread.

So I asked him, can you create a flatbread for our readers? And it came up with this really amazing roasted pepper, cherry chutney. I think it's feta cheese or chèvre. Yum. Flatbread. Yeah, it's really good. This is Joe, right? This is Joe. Hey, Joe. Hey, Joe. Yeah, I photographed that. And that's actually on our cover. It's on the cover. It's on the cover. Wait, I didn't know that that's his recipe. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Does he know? Yeah, of course he knows. Oh, I didn't know this. Well, here's the thing. You don't always pay attention, baby.

Did you say that to me? Oh, you told me. Sorry. It's not that I don't pay attention. Oh, no, I don't pay attention. Well, the reality is, is you have to get my attention before you say something. You can't just assume I'm listening because I'm usually not. Okay. Let's take another break. Okay. Right. Or we don't. Are you done with that? Well, the only thing I want to say, well, I'm sure we're going to talk more about it, but people often ask me, how do we get the magazine?

And these days, the best way to get it is to have a subscription. And we sell... If you buy one magazine...

It's $16. So if you go to the stores and stuff, it's $16. But if you have a subscription, the magazine is $10. And what we do, we don't sell yearly subscriptions. We sell an ongoing subscription. Yeah, it's like a subscription to anything else. Like each quarter, each season, you get charged $10 and the magazine comes to you.

And that goes on until you just tell us that, you know, I don't want it anymore. Yeah. Which is unheard of, by the way.

Yeah. And again, these magazines are beautifully printed. Yeah. Responsibly printed. And it's something you keep and reference forever. It's not like a cheaply printed monthly magazine from the grocery store that you just throw out. No, I hope people keep them. Of course. That's what they're for. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, we can stop there. Cool. We'll take a break. Okay. We'll take a break and see if we have any questions from you guys.

And we are back. We are back for... What's up, sweet Paul? What's up, sweet Paul? That's our... That's him. That's our question time. Yes. Yes. Okay. First question. Let's do a couple of online ones. Okay. Lisa. Lisa in San Francisco. Mm-hmm.

Has a ceramics. Lisa Inez. Hi, Lisa. She's that fabulous girl that makes the flannels. Oh, my God. Yes. Hey, Lisa. Hi, Lisa. I still have your shirt. Yeah, we both have them. Okay. She has a ceramics question. Where do you find inspiration for your designs? And is the way the finish is...

A little like frosting intentional. Okay. I say that all the time. Some of his little ceramic dishes look like delicious frosted cookies. I know. And at every market, there's always at least one who says that. Who says that. Yeah. Always. The inspiration. The inspiration comes from kind of what I can do.

I'm not the most, you know, I haven't done it that long and I'm not the most like, I mean, there's certain things I can do. Yeah. So what I do is hand building, which means I

I roll out the clay and then I, you know, cut it out and shape it like that. I don't do the wheel and stuff because that's too messy for me. I can't deal with all the mess. Yeah. So the designs is kind of based on my technical ability of what I can do. Yeah. But of course, it's also, I like things to be very simple. I don't like too many patterns and colors and stuff like that. I like white and...

Blue, raw blue. Yeah. I just started working on with this like pinkish color that I'm kind of into. I made like a few dishes and they sold right away. So, you know, that's encouraging. Yes. Wait, did I start this? No, I didn't start it again. No, I did. Yes, I did. I think I did. Oh my gosh. I blame Corona. No, it's just we're trying to film it and record it at the same time is clearly too much for us. Yeah.

Okay, so... But yeah, the inspiration is very... It's informed by where you're at in your dexterity. Yeah. But I think that's also... That's okay. That's the way... Totally. Having parameters is often the most liberating because you're not trying to do too much. It's like, let it evolve organically.

And let it be intuitive. Absolutely. And, you know, I like very simple. I like simple shapes, simple colors. It's kind of based on my Scandinavian heritage mixed with like kind of like Asian influences. My ceramics are kind of like simple and a little bit minimalistic.

And sometimes I do try to like do other things and go bigger and stuff. And if it doesn't work, I get very frustrated. Oh. Yeah. I get like, oh, yeah. Fuck this. Yeah. So, yeah. And the frosting isn't intentional, but it. You know what it is?

It's because of some of the shapes that I do actually do look a little bit like cookies. Well, he also uses things that are like vintage cookie molds or salt molds or pastry tins and stuff like that. So as it comes together, they look like delicious confections that you want to eat. They do. So, yeah. I mean, you can try to eat it. No, no, no, no, no. It is food safe, but don't try to chew it. No, no, no, no.

Okay. Okay. Next question is from Adam. Hi, Adam. Hi, Adam. Adam in Asbury Park. So do you have a 20 second song for hand washing? Yeah.

Personally, mine is Mamma Mia by ABBA. In a world where there was toilet paper, what's the most creative way you've used toilet paper in a craft? That's actually a really good question. Don't most people sing like happy birthday? It's supposed to. If you sing a whole verse of happy birthday, I think that's 20 seconds. No, I don't have a... You don't sing a song? No.

You don't count or anything, do you? You just... No, I try to... So I use soap and I try to use as hot water as I possibly can. I kind of wing it. Yeah, totally. Maybe I should come up... Like, if anyone has a good hand-washing song... Yeah. That would be really good. Yeah, for sure. Now, crafting with...

toilet paper rolls right yeah if you the rolls everyone's gonna have tons of them left over hopefully the rolls inside you can definitely use for different things we have oh yeah this is a good time to talk about so our sweet pole magazine instagram i have asked a lot of my crafty friends to make little craft videos for us

That we are now posting. We're posting today. And we have a bunch ready to post. Because I know a lot of you have kids at home. And you need to keep them active. Even just for yourself. Yeah. I mean, simple, fun little things to do. I mean, what else are we going to do? You know, we can't eat all day and nap all day. So we have to try to stay active. And one of the craft projects there, these little frogs, they actually use the inside of the toilet paper.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The one from Foundry. Foundry 42. Yes. Yes. So you make frogs from toilet paper rolls. And, you know, more will come. There is an Instagram page called Advanced Style, which is about older people that has like great style.

It's a documentary made a bit. Yeah. There is a woman there that makes, she makes bracelets out of toilet paper, the inside of toilet paper. Oh my God. Yeah. She just, you know, advanced style. Is that their Instagram's advanced style? If you haven't seen that page, you need to look at it and you're going to be like, oh,

I'm going to be fabulous when I'm old. Okay. But yeah, she makes bracelets out of the inside of toilet paper rolls. Does she paint them and stuff? That should be, you should do that for your video. I can. Yeah. That'd be fun to make fabulous like cuffs. Cuffs. Do high fashion. They're more cuffs than bracelets. Well, cuffs. Yeah. That would be really fun to do. Okay. We just need some paint.

Oh, yeah. We don't have any. Yeah. Okay. Next question. Anna from LA. Hey, guys. I know you don't have kids unless there's something you want to tell us all. Well, maybe in nine months, sweetie. How would you have dealt with kids now? Oh, my gosh. Would you tell them the truth on what's going on? I'm just so conflicted about this. I actually thought about this. I would tell them the truth.

I think it's good for kids to actually, because they will find out anyway. There's no way kids now wouldn't find out. Yeah, okay. Let's start with what we would do. I don't know. I mean, we have two French bulldogs that are enough of a handful. So having kids where you can't just like put them outside and shut the door.

I just don't. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, I mean, yeah, I wish you all the best of luck because it must be very difficult to be cooped up with kids because, I mean, you know, because they have so much energy and they need lots of attention and my goodness. That's why I started the whole video thing because I knew that this was going to be, you know, a thing that you need to keep them active and try to do stuff with them. Yeah, occupied.

Yeah, our Frenchies are high maintenance enough. So I really... I would always favor telling the truth. But again, obviously, as parents, you would know...

The language you use to tell the truth is you have your way of doing that. It's not like you're just turning on CNN for them and say, here, listen to the... Like, no. But you just say, keep it simple and also help them understand that everyone is doing their best together to make sure as little people get sick as possible. Yeah.

And here's the thing. You know your own child. Yes. So you know what language and how to... And their threshold for... Exactly. Anxiety and stuff. Yeah. But I would... But don't lie to them. No, don't tell them that everything is fine and everything is like hunky-dory. I would tell them what's going on and why we're doing what we're doing so they understand. Because they will find out anyway. They will find out.

There's no way. Because every kid now has like cell phone and iPads and they talk to each other and, you know. Yeah. And they're listening to you in the other room. Exactly. That's what I did as a kid. I would always. Oh my gosh. Always. I heard so much stuff I was not supposed to hear. Yeah. Always. Totally. Okay. Okay. Last question.

Max from Kingston. Hey, Max in Kingston. I hope you're not snowed in. Regards from your old hometown. Yes. Love the podcast. I just want to say thank you for posting these incredible craft videos for us all. Today's mermaid tea party was so much fun. Yes. That one is awesome.

A plus. A plus too. Lou and Danny. Danny and Lou. Yes. I mean, bravo. As we speak, my kids are working on theirs. Oh, love it. We are going to have a Superman party and a Frozen party. My question is,

What are you guys making and crafting now? Thanks again. Oh, I love that. Post a video. We would love to see it. And tag us so we can see the Superman party and the Frozen party. I want to know what that entails. Okay, so what are you crafting these days? Nothing. No, what...

No, I'm not crafting anything because I'm not a maker, but Adam and I are working on what we can do to support the makers themselves. We've been posting features, videos.

on all of our Instagram accounts. And we're putting together a concept to create content and to tell makers stories that we can continue to post on our social media platforms. So that's what I'm working on right now is how to best support all the amazing makers and merchants that we have the pleasure of working with. So that's what I'm crafting.

We should actually say that right now, it's super important to support makers and stuff because there's no markets, there's nothing going on. People don't work. If you don't have money saved up, I mean, you ordering something from someone,

For $20, $30, $50. It can actually mean that that person can buy groceries. For anyone who has the means to, again, like Paul said, buy something from someone for $50. Or less. It can be whatever. Like $30 means so much to someone who can't make a living right now. And again, the lesson in all of this is,

is that the planet is telling us that we've screwed everything up. Okay. So what we need to do, part of our manifesto in our makers markets is to create a

A connection with people that are making beautiful things that last forever. Because we need to move away from disposable living if our human race is going to survive. Yeah, so true. So quit it with the buying things, the wearing things, spending money on things that are just going to go in the garbage the next day.

We need to stop that, please. Because nature will wipe us out to survive. Okay? Very right. So, again, buying things from people that created them with their hands, that are meant to have a lifelong story, that's the direction we need to go in. I agree. Okay. So, okay, what am I crafting? Well, I set up a little... Frogs out of toilet paper rolls and...

I actually set up a ceramic studio in the garage. So I have a table and I got, before all this sort of went down, I brought some bags of clay from the studio and my tools. So I'm making stuff a little bit every day just to like have something to do. I'm going to do maybe a couple of videos to put on Instagram and then...

I have this idea about, I have an old hoodie that I'm going to do some embroidery on. Oh, how exciting. So, yeah, you know, there's things to do. Yeah. We're trying to keep busy. I mean, yesterday I was like, okay, we went to the grocery store. That was the big event. That was the big event. And today the big event is going to the post office. Yeah. Our lives are so glamorous and exciting in these times. Okay, one more thing. One last thing I want to say about sustainable living. Mm-hmm.

is for the people out there that sell vintage, whether it's mended, laundered, resold, gorgeous vintage pieces, cool vintage stuff, or people who repurpose things

secondhand clothing to turn them into new beautiful pieces of apparel. That's also a huge part of this story of sustainability because we don't need more and more manufacturing of disposable clothing.

Buying vintage is literally buying something that would, it does not need to be manufactured and is not going into the trash or buried in the earth somewhere. Buy vintage clothing. It's cooler than the rest of the clothing that's at Walmart or H&M. And it also takes something out of the ground. Yes. That's it. Hallelujah. Yes. All right. All right.

Thanks, guys. That's it for this. Half episode since we didn't record half of it. Well, I don't know if I recorded the last part either. I'm sorry. No, I think I did. We'll see. Oh, right. We might have to redo it. If not, we'll have to redo it. But we'll redo it without you guys because I don't need a distraction. No. So if you like our podcast, you can follow us. We're all podcasts are played and...

You can tag us and like us and comment and all that stuff. So bye, guys. Thanks for listening. Bye.