And the show is live. Welcome to a new episode of The Electric Podcast. I am Fred Lambert, your host. And as usual, I'm joined by Seth Winchell. How are you doing today, Seth? I'm good. All right. We don't have a crazy big show this week. Like January, February, it's pretty slow in our industry, but...
there was a few interesting thing that we're going to get into uh the model y launch in north america and eu obviously not as exciting as the two weeks ago through three weeks ago when it was launched in china because you know it was newer then but there's still some information that we're getting into then we're going to talk about the rivian a little bit ribbon is sort of like the uh
Popular kid on the blocks when it comes to OEMs, apparently. They revealed that there's some interest about their technology in further partnership, much like they did with Volkswagen recently. And then we're going to talk a little bit about the impact of Trump. That was Trump's first week, and he did a bunch of executive orders, including some about electric vehicles or affect electric vehicles or try to affect electric vehicles. We're going to get into that.
All right, let's start right off with the Model Y, new Model Y. That's how Tesla is calling it, really, the new Model Y in North America and Europe. They opened up the configurator for those. But this is quite a unique launch for North America. So a lot of people were aware we had some expectation about this based on the Model 3 launch last year, well, 2023 through 2024, when it was launched in China, and then three months or so later in North America. Europe, it wouldn't.
Did Europe come before North America? I think so, right? With the Model 3? Yeah, because weren't they getting them from China? Yeah, back before crazy tariffs everywhere. Though Tesla has some kind of deal to make the tariffs a little bit less crazier. So we're expecting something similar there, but now it was a lot quicker. So only two weeks ago, basically, there was launch in China. And the main thing that's different here is like when it was launched in China, all new Model Y orders were for the new Model Y.
It's not the case in North America, in Europe. Tesla just opened up the configurator, added basically a trim to the existing model, the same existing model with the long-range rear-wheel drive, long-range all-wheel drive, performance Model Y. Now you have a launch series with the new Model Y. And Tesla released this little chart here that shows the comparison price between the Model Y and new Model Y, the main one being the pricing.
though here it says 46 but i i assume it's like comparable to the long range all will drive because the only version of the new mly lunch in north america is the long range all-wheel drive which had an equivalent so we actually have now uh zero equivalent in epa rating or estimated rating for it comes to new york because deliveries are not starting until march tesla is taking reservation right now no there are orders not reservation but the deliveries are just in march
So the Model Y all-wheel drive long range was getting 311 miles of range. The new version get 320 miles of range, not confirmed EPA, but Tesla's estimation. And you get the new seating with the powered second row. You get the screen in the back. You get the new suspension with noise reduction. There's a new cameras in the front. The bumper camera has been added.
The audio has been modified a little bit. You have a little bit more speakers, two more speakers. Connectivity, yes, Tesla's quite big about that, but there's a new connectivity hardware. I think the Bluetooth is better and things like that. The trunk can be open and free. A little different on the interior with the new pockets and the new ambient light and all that. And Tesla also reportedly improved the tinted and laminated glasses that now have infrared reflexive coating.
And also with the top two, I think that's less heat inside the car with the new rooftop. But all that...
So all that, we already knew all of that from the version in China, obviously. And the version in China also has a launch edition, but similar to what we have now. Tesla released a little bit more details about that. So the new Launch Series, which is the only one that you can order right now, which costs $12,000 more than the regular Model Y long-range all-wheel drive, which you can still order in North America right now.
But it includes a bunch of things, including full self-driving. The option's already in. So already that's like $8,000, basically. So the order difference is $4,000. But you have some perks here. For example, the colors, all the colors are the same price. So you don't have more expensive colors. And you have only four available, stout gray, pearl white, ultra red, and quick silver options.
The new glacier blue that we saw in China is not available in North America or Europe. And actually, I haven't gone through all the European market, but I went through a few yesterday when this was launched. And it looks like Europe is getting fewer options. I saw a bunch of markets and only two options for colors for the new Model Y.
probably just for the launch edition, just for now, limiting the production because Tesla is producing both of them side by side right now. So that is obviously, that's the big news here. That's the thing that's different. Tesla already had an inventory that he needs to exhaust. So there's that. But it looks like production is still going because the inventory would be definitely gone by March and more easily, probably.
with the launch of this new model why but uh this is producing them side by side for a little bit it sounds like
And the launch edition looks like just a way for Tesla to upsell people that want the new Model Y as soon as possible, make sure that they get the full self-driving already. These things are obviously a wide margin for Tesla. There's a lot of money to be made on that. And when you launch a new version of the vehicle, the margins are smaller. So adding FSD as not an option makes it a little bit easier for Tesla to get things going.
And on the same time, this enables probably the quicker launch versus what happened last time with Tesla waiting a long time and then launching fully. The transfer of a Model 3 to the new one was done in one go.
That's probably because of the Osborne effect, Tesla. Elon has still, I mean, as of earlier today, at least, Elon has not tweeted about the new Model Y, hasn't said a thing. Tesla launched something, it's on Twitter yesterday, but Elon has not said a thing. And hasn't said a thing also since it's been around for more than two weeks with China.
But obviously, people know about this. They know this is lunch in China. They know this is coming in other markets. So Tesla was probably afraid of the Osborne effect for the Model Y more than the Model 3 because the Model 3 cells were already going down with the refresh. While Model Y cells, you can argue, also are stagnant or down depending on the market. But it is a much bigger vehicle program for Tesla. Model Y is Tesla basically right now.
So any kind of effect on cells is very impactful. So that's probably why they did that. You get a lot of badging too with the lunch edition. I posted all of them there, but nothing too crazy. You have this. Tessa literally made a picture of it for the lunch of this thing. Lunch.
This one is a little bit much. But you did get also, it sounds like a different interior too because it says specifically for the launch edition, you can premium textile trims. Then they post this picture here. I don't know if it's the matte.
or if the interior is actually different here, but they also have vegan suede for black interior. So the black interior has a different vegan suede than the usual fabric that they use for interior, which I don't even know what that is. I know it's not on Enchantra. They gave that up a while ago, but it's some version of that, I guess. Okay.
All right. In Canada, I know we have a lot of podcast listeners in Canada. Tesla just announced some giant price hikes at Trust, the entire lineup taking effect February 1st. So Model 3 is getting a $4,000 to $9,000 difference. $4,000 for rear-wheel drive, $8,000 for long-range. All-wheel drive, $9,000 for performance. And then all Model Y gets $4,000. All Model S and X version get $4,000.
Canadian increase. So that's a big money difference. And, you know, as usual, Tesla doesn't explain those price changes, but we have a pretty good idea of what's happening here. Obviously, this chart here is one of the main factors. There's a big drop in the Canadian dollars versus the U.S. dollar over the last few months since October. There was like basically over the last year, it's 6%, but much of it happened over the last few months.
so tesla needs to adjust to that because canadian tesla vehicles are us made obviously and um but the february first thing is the one that got a lot of people thinking is like if maybe tesla starts to uh predicts that we know that trump has signal that he wants to impose a 25 tariff on all goods coming from canada obviously that doesn't affect tesla sending cars to canada but
the Canadian government has been extremely clear that if the US wants to do that, they're going to retaliate. So that is maybe Tesla also thinking that pre-invincibly they need to increase their price for that because their car are going to be more expensive in Canada.
And I don't know how that works exactly for the cars on the tariffs. I think you have to put it at the sticker price because Tesla delivers the car to Tesla Canada and then Tesla Canada sells them to customers. So Tesla has to take care of the tariffs and then pass them on to the car. The consumer always pays for the tariffs at the end of the day. But I think it needs to be at the sticker price for Tesla, for vehicles, I think, because of how they are imported in the country. Because I don't import a car in the country. Tesla doesn't.
Yeah, that's going to hurt a lot. The Canadian EV market is going to take a big hit in 2025 because the incentives are going away too. So the federal incentive has gone away January 1st, I think. And then the Canadian one was reduced January 1st greatly. The Quebec one, when Quebec is the biggest EV market in Canada because we had strong incentive for the longest time and the market is really pro-EV.
went down January 1st and then is going completely away or suspended temporarily, they say. But, you know, we don't expect it to come back necessarily soon, February 1st. So February 1st. And then on top of that, Tesla is increasing the price of its two most popular vehicle, which are the two most popular EVs in Canada by $4,000 up to $9,000, depending on the model. So I, you know... Not looking good. Not looking good. The other EVs are doing well in Canada. You know, I see a ton of Equinox EVs around.
seeing a bunch of pole stars and things like that coming up so those you know might also be hit by tariffs and and they're also hit by the lack of incentive but maybe they'll try to adjust and reduce prices instead of going up but obviously they're not they don't have grace gross margin either so they don't have a lot of room to do that it's a bit worrying all right this uh this is fun this is a little nice little middle finger to hardaway three owners like myself out there
So Green, our friend Green, the famous test lacquer that often finds new features in Tesla software and gets new hardware, finds new hardware that Tesla computer and breaks it down and finds new feature for us, has come across this new computer here. It's a new hardware 4 computer, possibly the hardware 4.0 that we were talking about. Not exactly clear on that, but likely that the new computer that Tesla recently launched.
And he was very confused by it because he's never seen something like that. This one was for a Model Y and the markings on it said it's a Model Y reloaded computer. So instead of being the Model Y hardware 4 computer, it's the Model Y reloaded. And some people thought it might be the new Juniper computer coming up, but there's no clear evidence of that because there's not the cable for the rear screen like there should be on this computer because it's...
The new Juniper has a new computer. So it's probably more the 4.1 that we've been talking about for the last few months that Tesla has had issues with. And based on what Green could put together, he believes that this is a replacement service unit for retrofits so that you could retrofit the hardware for computer to this one.
which you know is a good news for hardware for owners but other way three owners have been waiting for a ritual fit to more powerful computers for a while because we've been left behind with software update for full self-driving for a while now and this can is not it you cannot put this in another word three cars because it has all the new cameras connectors that work with the cameras on the hardware for vehicles because the hardware four and three cameras are also different so this is
Kind of a bummer. Like, Tesla is literally putting Richard Fitzpatrick for a computer and leaving all the three people behind completely. Now, do you think that's because the cameras aren't as good? Or do you think not as many interconnects? Or the power? Or...
i i just don't think that i think it's worth it to update autoware three cars i don't think like financially like it makes sense they develop a new computer for it that works uh that i can fit uh and like you said the cameras are not as good so then you don't get as much of the benefits from it too even though the biggest bottleneck for the hardware cars are definitely the compute powers because now they're using both nodes on on this is not even a redundant node so it
There's no chance. If you still believe that there's a chance that Tesla is going to deliver unsupervised self-driving, a lot of work through vehicle, you're kind of kidding yourself at this point. I think everyone is clear. Everyone, even within Tesla, is probably quite clear, even though Elon was like, he just suggested it in that last signing call instead of admitting it completely. He was like, yeah, we might need to upgrade that. But there's no, we don't see that in the work at all. We see this in the work for four cars though, so good for them.
And there is a new bumper camera, which is on the Juniper. So that points to Juniper. But again, without the rear screen, it doesn't make sense either. So it could be a retrofit for a bumper camera, but I think you would need the Warrior RNS for that in the front. And if your car doesn't have that, it would probably be too complicated. I doubt that Tesla is going to get into that anytime soon.
All right, we have one more, kind of one and a half more posts about Tesla, and then we're going to move on to Rivian. But this is an update based on Tesla apps updates that tracks all the updates in the Tesla mobile app to see new features coming up and everything. They found a few things with the latest update this week.
First of all, the Tesla diner in Los Angeles. This revolutionary feature we've been waiting for Tesla is actually happening. The latest footage from the place looks like it's near completion. And now it's showing up in the app. So it looks like it's going to be an app integration of this diner in LA. Not sure exactly why. Obviously, this is a supercharger station at the same time. And superchargers already integrated.
integrated in Tesla app, but it looks like there might be something like food ordering directly from the app or things like that that could happen at this specific supercharger station. It's not clear, but there's going to be app integration to it. Another feature is like we see a line of code that relates to
a discount applied to the use of FSD. So it's a safety scar FSD discount experience. So it looks like Tesla is working for its insurance program with real-time data to apply a discount for people that use FSD, which is interesting because I think Tesla is really the only insurer that plans to do that. This insurance is not available in New York, is it? I don't think so. No, you never applied for it, never tried to look it up?
Yeah, I mean, I'm hearing some good things. I'm hearing some bad things. Like if you want to drive your car like a grandpa, it sounds like Tesla insurance might be a good deal. Like they might, they will actually give you lower rates than most other insurers out there. But then if you want to have some fun with your car, which, you know, you should because these are fun cars to drive, especially if you have like a performance version. Like there's no way I don't, you know, I don't floor it every now and again when it's safe and whatnot. Yeah.
uh you you get tesla knows that and and then your score and then you're gonna pay more on your insurance which you know it's uh i was gonna say in french is there is that an expression in english a double-edged sword like yeah double-edged sword yeah okay let's just say you have the same impression expression um
Oh, yeah. Now you're going to have an alert message that's going to tell you your vehicle must be connected to the internet to calculate the expected range based on age and mileage. So basically, if your car is connected to the internet, it's going to let you know that you're going to have better range calculation, basically. It's an interesting feature. We know that Tesla has been using internet for...
range calculation with adding a bunch of different factors to make it more precise, which we appreciate because I do think that this is the biggest thing to curb range anxiety is to have the correct range show up. So now at least you're going to know if you see a difference in your range, you're like, yeah, well, hey, doesn't that make sense? Like my range doesn't normally is better than that. It might be just because you don't have internet connection right now. So Tesla is going to let you know that, which I think makes sense. It's a good thing.
And then the other few things that were in the app update give us a little bit of idea of what's going to be coming with the Cybertruck rear-wheel drive that Tesla is going to launch later this year. So there was a few line of code that suggests that the vehicle is going to have a manual tonneau cover, which are very interesting because, you know,
The tunnel cover is pretty useful with the Cybertruck. It is a big feature, and now you're going to have to move it manually instead of automatically within the car and outside the car. So kind of a bit of a bummer. And the truck bed's outlet are going to be optional, it sounds like, from the app too. That's another big one there. So this is going to upcharge you to get outlets inside your Cybertruck's bed.
things to keep in mind. I think Tesla's going to, I don't, I don't think Tesla wants to sell the cyber truck, river drive. I think they want to try to put you to the, uh, this old motor one. Yep. All right. So if, uh, if you haven't missed the, uh, inauguration of the president this week, Elon made that quite, uh, quite a lot of headlines at this thing. Um,
Mainly for being a dork. He usually is on stage with his little dancing and whatnot. But then after that, his thank you was a heartfelt, giving his heart out. And a lot of similarities with the Nazi salute. And when I say a lot, I mean it was the exact same thing. It obviously created a whole thing around that.
with uh people calling elon a nazi and you know whatever you want to call him a nazi or not like he did it like this is the 100 you can argue it's not it was not meant to be like i don't care what like we don't know that only elon knows that but the movement itself was definitely that there's no i don't know what you said but my feeling is that he meant to do it he's not a nazi
But he wanted to stir controversy. He wanted to get people to say that he was doing it. He did it on purpose. Yeah. He knew it would be controversial. And then he planned to say, oh, no, that wasn't a thing. This is all planned. It seems likely to me. Yeah. I think Laura Ingram, another conservative personality, did something similar.
And also was planned, also meant to signal people and create a controversy. And hers was even not as obvious as Elon's. And yeah, I mean, I think it was an opportunity, like the legacy media that he likes to attack all the time. Right. It was bait. Yeah, it was bait. He knew that we were going to go from that and then it was going to be an opportunity for him to do it. It's kind of obvious at this point.
Because if it was really just a mistake and because no one does my art goes out, the people even brought up a bunch of other version of when Elon said that my art goes out to you and he does a gesture that is completely different from this SIG HAL that he did this week. And you can clearly see the difference. Yeah.
I think the same as you on there. And regardless, so this basically fueled a lot of people that do think he's a Nazi, though, and that there is some evidence behind that from him, like, retweeting, like, and boosting a bunch of white supremacists for the last two years or so. And, you know, backing the German far-right party that a lot of people link to neo-Nazism. And, you know, also...
backing trump and i'm not saying that trump is a nazi but you know a lot of people just use nazi for referring to fascism and they turn out trump has some fascism tendencies at the very least so there's a lot of evidence around that and people are not happy obviously people in north america people in the u.s but in europe it's practically a problem and um
Because, you know, Nancy was very popular there and had a big impact on the continent for a long time and still does today. And in Germany, too, specifically. So it was interesting to hear Polestar's CEO, Michael Lutscheller, the new CEO at Polestar. He hasn't been there for long. You actually see this as an opportunity for Polestar because there is a momentum right now. We talked about it last week. There's a boycott Tesla kind of thing.
that is gaining momentum in Europe, but specifically in Germany. A bunch of companies trying to separate themselves from Elon, from Tesla. And this thing is gaining momentum now because of the gesture he did at the inauguration. But it's more in combination of him also boosting the AFD. We talked about it, the far-right party in Germany. So...
The CEO of Polestar commented on this and said, for Germany, somebody outside of Germany endorsing right-wing politics parties is a big thing. You want to know what I think about it? I think it's totally inaccessible, totally unacceptable. You just don't do that. This is pure arrogance and these things will not work.
Then he added that we get a lot of people writing that they don't like all this. It's important to listen closely to what they say. And I can tell you a lot of people are very, very negative sentiment. We've seen that. We've seen on the Tesla Gigafactory Berlin, a bunch of left activist groups. They present themselves as such. I'm not calling them. The projected Elon's
Nazi salute or Roman salute for some people that like to call it that. On the factory with the word hell. Is it hell? Heil? Heil? Tesla. Next to the actual Tesla logo. So, hell Tesla with Elon doing his salute. You know, I just thought of something. As somebody who's probably not but was in the market for a Model Y.
Like now that the new Model Y is out, it is no longer compatible with the bumper stickers that say, I bought this before Elon went crazy. Yeah, you cannot say that. No. So like the old Model Ys that are still in inventory might be like a premium. Yeah. Yeah.
Some people are actually worried about this, like they're worried that their cars are going to get vandalized over this, especially in Germany because they take this thing seriously. They have laws against doing that. Like you do that in Germany and Elon can find himself in jail, can find his position seized and things like that because his whole thing is like, yeah, he didn't do it. Like it's not what I meant. It's like, yeah, but you did it. You did it. Yeah, he definitely did exactly that.
Anyway. And just generally speaking, especially when you're in public and on stage and making a speech, don't do any heils. That's just a good general rule to follow. Yeah. And Ivan was...
like he attacked the media for saying that he did that, even though like he did it. So it's kind of obvious. But I saw on X, it was like, it was so frustrating. The number of people, you know, Elon, same thing for Elon, that just posted a bunch of other politicians doing the same thing. But they post the picture. They always post just the picture because it's easy to be caught like doing, have your hand up in the center and angle and doing that. But that was not what Elon did. Like if you look at the video, you see him putting his hand where,
where normally a cigar start. And then you see his face change. You see like him getting like more aggressive and then throwing his arm out there. Like you would exactly position too. Yeah. It looked like it was reversed. It looks like you've done it before. It looks like you've done it a thousand times and then he turns around and does it again.
It's, you know, you can take whatever you want, but I think it's pretty obvious. But I do agree with what you said that I think it was, you know, it's a whole thing to get people talking and to bait people into saying that he's a Nazi so that he can say, you know, I'm obviously not a Nazi. And then he has Ben and Toyu defending him, which, you know, great guy to have on your side. Yeah. All right.
Moving on to Trump. Oh, boy. Great segue. So first day, that was, you know, the 28th. That was the first day that Trump was in office. It was an inauguration. After this whole Sig Heil thing, he went on to the Oval Office and he got cracking in signing a bunch of executive orders. I think it was 200 or something like that. A lot of them just were completely useless, by the way. And some of them are already being turned around by judges like the Birch Wright citizenship and all that.
So, but there was a few of them that affect EVs directly. But the good news here is that it's mostly theater. It's not, there's not a very big impact right now. So the main one is the unleashing American energy one that, let me read exactly, sorry, the language. So just so we're clear. To eliminate the electric vehicle EV mandate, under quotes,
and promote true consumer choice, which is essential to economic growth and innovation, by removing regulatory barriers to motor vehicle access, by ensuring a level of regulatory playing field for consumer choice in vehicles, by terminating, where appropriate,
So as you can see here, this was written by Trump.
the language like try to read that in trump's voice it makes no sense but anyway the so the first line here is to eliminate the ev mandate which they put under quote because there's no such thing like there was not really an ev mandate there was a goal a loose goal that was not enforceable in any way of achieving 50 of these cells by 2030 which now looks impossible but so now it's the goal is not a goal anymore it's nothing but you kept calling an ev mandate
The more threatening one is like removing where appropriate state emission waivers. So it looks like he wants to go after CARB states again, which he did the last time he was in office and he failed to do so. So I think we shouldn't be too scared about that here. I think the CARB emission standards are going to stay on.
You know, it's the state level and the states decide to join them. And the federal government was told to back off the last time. And then there is the considering the elimination of the unfair subsidy. So this is the federal tax credit, obviously. And they're talking about considering it here because they can't do it by executive order. It has to go through Congress, has to go through the IRS. So I don't think...
Like I said, it's theater at this point. We need Congress to approve this. In the meantime, it doesn't mean much.
But then there's another part that more specifically tells all agencies to stop any funding of electric vehicle charging stations. So that is as direct effect, because I don't think that the Biden administration was able to fund all the funds that were put aside for electric vehicle charging. I don't think they were able to distribute them all. So there's some things that are going to be left aside here. So that has a direct impact. And also, he...
Actually, all-enhanced regulation to slow the development or use of domestic energy resources. So to remove all the relegation that slow that. So basically regulation that would prevent you from drill, baby drill is going away. And they said an added particular attention to oil, natural gas, coal, hydropower, biofuel, critical mineral, and nuclear energy. So you will find that solar and wind is not in that. So remove all regulation for everything else other than solar and wind. That makes no sense whatsoever. Right.
You might as well just put a big stamp of like sponsored by fossil fuel companies. I love this because if you want to say that you are like you're doing that for American energy independence, solar and wind help you with that. It makes no sense. Also, if you want to go through with your tariffs on Canadian goods,
I don't know if that's going to include oil, but the U.S. gets like I think 50% of its oil import from Canada. Oh, wow. From Alberta or whatever? Yeah. Carsons. Yeah, so good luck with that too. Yeah, it's going to be great. And he promised to reduce the price of gas by however percent in his first few months in office. We'll see about that. Good luck.
Rivian had some interesting news this week. There were a few comments by CEO RJ Scaringe about the advanced driving assistance system effort. So we've talked a little bit about that with the next generation, the Gen 2 launch of the R1s last year. I went into details. They said that they had a rough goal of level 3 autonomy with this new generation hardware suite that they launched.
And we did know that the hardware suite was quite extensive, that probably overkill for hardware 3. But I do appreciate Rivian being a little bit more conservative with its goal here because obviously when you talk about advanced driver assistance system, you're going to be compared to Tesla and Tesla is obviously super aggressive with the full self-driving thing. Rivian is a little bit more careful because you could argue that its hardware suite is better than Tesla's is for the full self-driving, which Elon says we're going to achieve level 5.
Well, this is level three that they were talking about achieving. And now we have a little bit more of a timeline of a goal here. So RJ says it's going to be ends free in 2025. Okay.
So just like basically Tesla's autopilot is right now, for self-driving is right now, you can remove your hands. You don't have to have your hands on the wheel. And then in 2026, it's going to be eyes-free. So that's going to mean a full level three, basically. Did he specify on the highway? I'm assuming he meant highway, but I don't think he did. I would assume so, too, because I've used Rivian's...
self-driving and it's really not great yeah it's not great like they're talking about improvement but you know what I I this timeline achieving ends free on the highway into by the end of the year ice free next year I I think it's very doable I I would even go as far as saying that I think Rivian is going to achieve level three before Tesla achieves level four non-geofence level four
That's what I mean. Non-juice offense. If anyone wants to take a bet on this 50-50 bet, I'll take that bet. And I'm saying Tesla achieving level four. I'm not saying Tesla achieving level three because that would require a change of heart from Tesla and a change of strategy. But I do think that Tesla could achieve level three quite fast if it wanted to, but it doesn't want to. It wants to go directly to level four, which makes no sense to me, but whatever. Yeah.
so this is good for arivan like this is i know i i love my autopilot on the highway like i i love it so that would be something that would help me uh transition to arivan it's it would be that if they can achieve a reliable and even if it's level three it's even better than what i have right now on mindful self-driving because i it means that i could you know read my emails you know write an article where i drive would be nice
And that's what RJ said too. He said like it's level three is going to give time back to people and you're going to be able to check your emails and whatnot. So he's really talking about level three here. Yeah. And we've seen level three on Mercedes vehicles and, you know, we've used, I've used it. You can read a book and, you know, when it's time to take over, it starts beeping and you put your book down and you, you go, but like, you can't like go, go crash out in the back. You got to kind of be at the wheel.
Yeah, I mean, the level three based on the SAE stuff, I don't remember exactly, but there is a time, a reasonable time to take over. That's the main thing. So obviously you shouldn't be screwing around in the back seat while it's happening. You're going to scramble to get to the front. But if you're in the front seat and you have your phone, checking your email, watching TV, whatever it is, you can...
Shut that down. And if it's connected to the car, all that can shut that down. It's like, yeah, put your focus back on the road. That's a good point. Great idea. Yeah. Because obviously, Ravion is also big on software and has a big screen and all that. RJ had other comments too. So this one I didn't get into exactly, but was it RJ or was...
Oh no, it's Ben Said who leads the new Rivian and Volkswagen Group. He said since the announcement of this new Rivian and Volkswagen Group technology company,
he said that, "I'd say that many other OEMs are knocking on our doors." And I said, "There is demand for it." So it does sound like whatever will come out of this Rivian and Volkswagen technology, other automakers are interested in getting into that. So they talked about a platform for a software-focused vehicle and some key technology that Rivian has being marketed through that joint venture.
So it sounds like other OEMs might be into that, but there were no known names and name or anything like that. But RJ called it a meaningful financial opportunity. Obviously, Rivian is trying to achieve profitability, and that would be something that could help. I'm really curious to see the earnings from Rivian this quarter, like positive gross margin. Obviously, the big difference is if it's going to be achieved entirely through...
ZF credits, it's not that impressive, but I want to see both the gross margin in Q4 without credits, see how it looks. That would be a big step for Rivian.
We're already seeing some impact of Trump's going after EVs. So Nissan has canceled the smaller electric SUV that they plan to bring to the US and build out of Canton, Mississippi. So this Canton plant has been kind of a nightmare, really. They've been talking about producing a bunch of EVs there for a while, and it's a new lineup. I mean, literally, Nissan brought me to Japan. Was it last year? The year before that? I don't know how much I can say because they had me sign a bunch of things. But at this point, it's like...
i don't know what's the point of that like it was completely useless like they showed me the entire lineup of hv vehicle they plan to make and i thought it was awesome i thought it was like great the great new cars that they plan to make and everything um but obviously they ran into some issues lately and now they have their partnership that they're trying to save and uh they are dropping some evs as part of it for the u.s market i should say for because
They expect the tax credit to go away. They expect a bunch of things to go away. And now their Rogue-based SUV, so something a little bit smaller than the Ariya, was planned. Apparently, it's been confirmed that it's been dropped. There's no plan for it already. So we have the first casualty of the Trump era for electric vehicles. So wait, you can't say if you saw it. Was it...
Was it a good-looking vehicle? I saw a bunch of them. They said I couldn't say anything. I couldn't even write an article on it. They brought me to Japan for it. They had this whole thing. It looked like a secret lair to their R&D center. It's outside of Tokyo. It's like an hour outside of Tokyo, and you have to go through a tunnel and
and then you end up in a valley, and then the whole valley is just Nissan stuff and buildings and all that. And then they brought me here, and there was the entire lineup of EVs and other vehicles, too, and non-EVs, too, that they planned to launch. And I was like, man, this is okay. That's why you only launched the Leaf, and then 10 years later, the Ariya. You guys have been working on this in secret. That's cool, but none of this is coming out. It kind of reminds me of the GM battery day they had in 2020. Yeah.
Yeah, but the GM was at least a lot more open about that. They released some pictures and some... Yeah, and eventually those things are making their way out. Yeah, we're seeing some of them now. I mean, the Cadillacs were there. I mean, the electric pickup truck were there. There were a lot of things that actually came out. Hyundai is talking about rebadging some commercial EVs in the US to sell them through GM. That's literally what they said. We are...
because that was uh yandi cfo lee song joe we are considering rebadging our commercial evs and supplying them to gm he says i did and the deal would pave the way for our entry to the north american commercial ev market oh just market that she said but specifically said commercial evs before that um
That's interesting. We were talking about, I don't know what these pictures there, because it's actually not these cars. These are not commercial cars, but this right here. So that's one that's sold in Korea. So the Hyundai ST1 EV business platform. And I don't know what this is about, honestly, because GM has the Bright Drop. They have their old commercial, old EV thing already. So I don't know why they would want to do that, but...
Yeah, I don't get the whole, like, have another company build you a car. Like, isn't that the point of being an automaker is to make autos? Like, the whole, like... I mean, GM is selling Honda Prologues, and then they're buying...
evs from another like it just doesn't make any sense it's going a little bit too far like there's been some of that in the industry forever like other cars using like on the engine or something like that like that that makes sense uh you know the rivian thing i can understand too making like a
The software for an automaker that, you know, the legacy automakers are not super great at software. And Rivian is the software first company. So things like that make sense to me. But making the whole car and just putting like GM badge on it is like, yeah, I agree with you on that. I don't get it. But GM does it for Honda the other way around. Right. It's crazy. This is Hyundai, not Honda, but, you know, the same principle. Right.
All right. I actually didn't ask people to put the comments in. I'm now a little bit late, but we are done with the articles for the week. So if you guys have any questions for us, you can put it in the comment section right now. It can be about any of the stories that we discussed today or any other stories in the EV world that you want us to take on. So you can put that in the comment section right now and we can get into it. But we can get into just the general comments that were posted while we were talking earlier.
All right. Carl in San Diego says, I saw some reporting that wraps adhesive are permanently sticking to Cybertruck stainless steel when owners try to remove it. Tesla apparently offered factory wraps. Will owners sue? I saw a picture of that. Like I didn't wrote an article on it because I just saw one picture of it. Like, yeah, there was the line on it and everything. So we need to get more evidence of that. But also, I don't think that was a Tesla factory wrap, though. I think I'm pretty sure that was like a third party wrap. So.
i think i think we need more details about that before we talk about lawsuits yeah sounds like if i had waited and not by my 2024 model 3 performance i would not have been able to transfer fsd from my 2018 because fsd is already included in the price of the new y that that is an interesting
thing about the the new y having it included yeah so now you're you're screwed if you're a model y owner that paid for fsd and now you want the new one but at the same time you just wait for the you just wait for the non-launch version of it i don't think that's that the big deal but if you wanted it right now and you thought ah tesla's gonna launch it around march probably which what people thought too like it just unveiled it sooner than we thought but they are launching it pretty much at the same time because delivery starting in march so yeah it's not
It is a bummer because now you're going to have to pay again for FSD. Yeah, I can talk a little bit about that. That's a good segue because I'm writing an article on this right now. We can make it like a little podcast exclusive because with this price increase in Canada, I did actually look to upgrade right now and I found the perfect car, exactly the car I wanted, you know, with a demo vehicle with 2000 kilometers on it.
All right. All right. Let's if the if they are do the right thing and give me because there's no FSD transfer officially anymore. If they do give me the FSD transfer, I'm going to do it. So I place the order on the car, talk to the guy. First of all, one of the worst experience I've ever had with the worst conversation, the most frustrating conversation of my life.
I already, I tried to buy a car last month and then Tesla just stopped talking to me in the middle of the craziness of the end of the quarter push. But I did my trade-in estimate, which was still valid, is still valid until February 5th. And on that trade-in, they put on my Model 3 21,500, including value FSD. That's what's written on the quote. With the new car order, I'm like, hey, can you just use the trade-in that I just did so that I don't have to go through the whole process again? It's like, no, you have to do it again now.
I just do it again, do it with the same pictures and all that, update the 300 kilometers more that I had on the car, and that's it. And Tesla sends me back a quote of 17,500, no, 17,100 with FSD included.
And I sent them bold quotes. I'm like, what is this? What's he? You just devalued my car by 4,500 bucks or 400 bucks, 400, 4,400 bucks over a few, just a few weeks. And, uh,
And you both say that the FSD is included. Like now the FSD shouldn't be included on top of it because there's no transfer. Like what's happening? And I get into a 30-minute text conversation with the guy at Tesla trying to gaslight me saying that both quotes are the same. He says like, no, but this quote is fantastic.
$4,000, $400 less because you're going to have FSD on it because you're going to trade in your car with FSD. You're not going to be transferring to the car. I say, okay, but still the 21,000 won. We're saying with FSD included. So that was the same thing. I was trading in with FSD. You just didn't put the transfer in. And no joke, 30 minutes like that of back and forth, you're telling me that it's the same thing?
to finally sending me an updated trade quote. Look at your account right now, it says 21,400, so they just removed $100 from the last quote that I had.
And, uh, and then I had to go on a call with them. It was like, what are you talking about? Like, yeah, you just updated it after 30 minutes of arguing with you guys. But you, you, do you think I Photoshopped the $17,000 quote? Like what? And then it took a 20 minute call to finally admit like, yeah, my bad. It was, it was our mistake on our side. We screwed things up. Like it was with the last order. We got screwed up and everything. I'm like, okay, good. Yeah.
It's like, do you want to keep going with your purchase, the purchase of your car? I'm like, okay, I'll go through, but you have to do the FSD transfer. And then he tells me, no, the window of transfer is closed right now. I'm like, okay, I get that, but it is the right thing to do. I purchased the FSD package. You never delivered on the promise that it will bring me on supervised self-driving. So you never delivered on the package. Now I'm giving you another shot, buying another car from you.
And you're telling me that I need to buy again, the package that you didn't deliver on the other car is just the right thing to do to transfer it over and have the package on the new car that already paid for that. You never delivered. And, uh, after a conversation like that, he was like, he was basically agreeing with me, but it's like, it's not on my power. So I was like, okay, I understand that. But what's in your power right now is to run this up the chain, write an email, say that this is the right thing to do. And, um,
And Tesla is going to have to respond like, yeah, let's do the right thing and open up the FSD transfer again for all the way three cars or say no. And that was yesterday. And then they called me back, you know, just a few hours ago. And he was like, I run this up the chain and they gave me a category. No, we're not going to do the right thing and transfer the FSD. And then he told me, I'm going to put a note in your account so that whenever the window transfer opens back up,
we're going to call you so that you can order a new car. And obviously why I'm ordering a car right now is because
Yes. They announced the price increase in a week of... Do you think there's going to be an overlap? Like in a week? No, it's not going to be an overlap. As soon as the price increase comes on, I'm sure that Tesla now is going to use that as a dimension. So I told them, no, don't put that on my account because I'm not going to buy a car because you use your own inability. And I was clear, by the way, I wasn't being an asshole. I wasn't clear that I was talking to this guy that doesn't have the power to do that. I was talking to Tesla. But he
you're not going to use your own inability to deliver a feature that you already sold to clients as a demand trigger when you need to instead of just doing it because it's the right thing to do. So I said, I'm not doing that. Unless you make FSD transfer permanent, you're not going to get me with upgrading. It's just stupid. It's not the right thing to do.
So yeah, I'm writing an article right now about that to make like the definitive argument that it's, Tesla is not doing the right thing with FSD transfer. It's literally using its own incapacity to deliver a feature. It promised and sold to people on supervised self-driving as a demand trigger to get those same people to buy new cars. It's,
Corporate greed at its finest. I know Elon Musk has other things to worry about these days, but I do remember before the whole social media addiction going through a dark path, he did say that Tesla will always do the right thing if it can. And he's still CEO of Tesla, and this is not the right thing, Elon. It's simply not. It's stupid. All right. Yep. That was my rant of the day. Okay. No matter why, it has a turn signal stock, which is good in my book. Yes. Yep.
So what do you think happened? Are we going back to turn signals? I mean, I think that Tesla did the math and they're like, oh, we're going to sell fewer of the new version if it doesn't have a turn signal, which is crazy because I know I'm probably in the minority there, but I was more upset about the gear stock than the turn signal. I got used to the turn signal pretty quickly. The gear stock and swiping on the screen, like, I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like either one.
Yeah. All right. Uh, moving on. I'm happy with my mid 2024 model Y cheap enough and have had it for six months. Yeah. Yeah. Mid, mid 2024, you probably got it at the cheapest possible. Right. Kind of, kind of feel like I should have, uh, got it then. I mean, I'm kind of looking at the inventory vehicles so I can get the, uh, old, you know, now old model Y. So it's still compatible with the, uh, bought before Elon stickers. Um,
Plausible deniability. Does the new Model Y qualify for the $7,500, I think you meant, federal tax credit? Yes, for the moment. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, because all the software stuff and everything is all after. It doesn't count in the price range yet. Are we sure Tesla is not going to ship the Model Y launch edition from Shanghai? They could do this while Berlin and Austin switch over. Trump could sign a temporary waiver to avoid 100% tariff. I mean...
That sounds unrealistic, but that's a lot of... That'd be pretty blatant corruption. Not that they were past that limit. Yeah, I was going to say, that's not a stop. Yeah. In Europe, it might be different. In Europe, the tariffs are not as crazy as in the U.S., so maybe they could do that. All right. Yes, at least on the site, there's a $7,500 tax credit. It's there, so they think they're going to get it.
regarding the Heil, maybe Elon forgot he was not on SNL anymore, LOL. It's safe to assume everything Elon does now is to maximize social media engagement. That's a pretty safe assumption, yeah. Yeah. Because with all the controversies and the manufactured controversies in this case, X is dead, basically. This is like 90% of what X is, is like manufactured outrage. And Elon is like, I can't.
pretty good at doing that. So let's just milk it as much as possible. Yeah, he's like a savant. Too bad he can't run Teslas on outrage. Carl disagrees about the Nazi salute. His angry face was an FU to everyone who thinks he's against them. I don't give him the benefit of the doubt because I doubt he did it for the press.
His face is quite upsetting. That's why I don't get the people that keep defending him like he didn't do it. You see his face change when he do it with some aggressiveness. It's scary almost.
All right, Donald Parrish is getting a lot of Polestar emails. I guess they smell blood in the water. I haven't got my tickets just yet, but I did register and everything. So I should be going testing out pretty much the whole Polestar lineup in Sweden next month.
I'm really, really excited about that because I haven't had much experience with the Polestars. There's going to be some snow probably. Yeah, they're being very Swedish about the whole thing. They say like, oh, so we're going above the Arctic Circle, I think, too. Oh, wow. Yeah, and they say like they're going to do like cold plunges along the road. He's like, what does that mean, along the road? I'm a fan of cold plunges, but not Polestars.
outside in the Arctic Circle. Okay. Well, I can't wait for that video. Electric Brian says, unsurprisingly, Trump wants the health of women, abortion to be up to states, but demands the health of everyone, emissions to be up to him. Well, he doesn't believe in emissions cause problems. He says he doesn't like windmills. No one likes windmills. Also, the solar fields. That's literally what he said today. Yeah.
Uh, it'll be interesting to see the comparison of the new model Y with Rivian R2S when it comes out. I don't think the R2S is going to be as efficient. Like it just doesn't look like a very aerodynamic vehicle. Uh, I love my Leaf, but they are done. Sadly. Uh, we need more affordable EVs. Many, many more. Yeah. It would be nice. When do you think Chevy will show the 2025 Bolt Chicago show in February, New York show in April? Uh,
I would love to see it. I better get invited to whatever that is. I want to go. Yeah, you're like one of the biggest fans of the book. I think I might be the biggest. Yeah. Yeah, you had only like two or three. I'm on my second bolt. Second bolt, but you also bought one for your mom. That's true. It kind of counts.
When do you think Chevy will show the 20... Oh, he said that again. Yeah, 2026. That's what I thought too. The 2025, I think it's going to be a 2026 model year because it's going to be at the end of the year, I think, or mid-year for next year. Yeah, but they should show it beforehand. I mean, there's nothing... Yeah. All right. Traditional automakers need to share more to survive. Nissan's change in EV plans may be due to Honda merger. GM canceled a smaller commercial EV so they could just buy it from Hyundai. I mean, it's hard to say. Yeah, maybe.
Going back to the Bolt EV, though, it's going to be cheaper than the Equinox, right? I would imagine. Yeah, it's going to have to be a little bit cheaper than the Equinox. It might be our $25,000, $30,000. Not $25,000, probably closer to $30,000. It would be nice if they did the hatchback. Well, I think Chevy's not... I think they're going to make the EUV kind of Bolt, which I think is sad because I like the hatchback. But it would be nice if they made a hatchback.
It would be nice, especially with the Equinox. The EUV is closer to the Equinox than the Bolt EV hatchback. Right. All right, question. Why would Lucid not be selling more tech than Rivian? The Gen 2 battery and drive chain seem to have issues, including thermals and motor failures. I haven't heard some problems with Rivian, but I think that's like any new launch. It is a good question, though. Lucid's got some great tech. They've got great battery tech. They've got great efficiency. And they started out...
as a powertrain company too it was called a tv at tibia at tibia i think at the beginning and it was made to sell battery packs and powertrain to people so yeah you're right it's a good point been waiting to afford a tesla love the new y need a new car this year all right we're not gonna talk about the thing won't get one with elon at the helm yep
hey there you're on socks all right between the turn signal and round wheel tesla's having their apple firing johnny ive era yeah what did johnny hive remove that well apple just went back to a lot of this stuff so like uh you might remember the macbook uh had like macbook pro had like zero ports like it was just usbc on the side yeah and then they went back to having hdmi and having like uh
like different ports on the pro well the hdmi is good but they brought back the magsafe nonsense too that no one wants to use yeah i mean i yeah so they have the magsafe but they also have like a sd card reader yeah that's right that's right so they took it all away and then they brought it all back so i guess that's the thing but johnny i wasn't that apple for for a while yeah it's like a decade now uh oh a lot of connecticut people here
Sylvan canceled his Cybertruck and probably looking to sell his Highlands. Oh, interesting. Sylvan has the Performance Island, too. Ooh. How much are you going to sell that, Sylvan? I'm like...
I love Elon Musk. I don't care. You just put a sticker on there like F Elon. Yeah, the island still has the, how do you call it? Plausible deniability. Yeah. You still have that with the island. Even though it's, you know, Elon's island is early 2024. Elon was already quite out there for that. Wow. F Elon is how you spell felon, isn't it? F Elon. Interesting. Yeah.
GigaCast shock towers crack. This is worse than big block HEMIs twisting frames. Oh, I don't know what he's talking about. You can put braces between the shock tower shocks impacting against fragile cast aluminum. I think he's talking about the build of the GigaCast thing, something. Elon has proven he doesn't have the mental capacity to have anything to do with the success of Tesla. He is only hurting Tesla.
Maybe true. Guy busted his casting on a Cybertruck hitting a pothole. That's what he's talking about. Elon has proven that he doesn't have the mental capacity to have anything to do with the success of Tesla. He's only hurting Tesla. You know, this is interesting because I just posted an article on that that was very well received. I got a lot of messages about that. If I can pat myself on the back a little bit, people can go check it out.
Now I'm forgetting the name of it, but something like Tesla. Elon Musk is a Tesla founder, but he's not behind its main innovation. And it goes through – it was a little bit to address because I see a lot of people – I'm no fan of Elon Musk, even what I just said. I think people know that. But I don't like that people just kind of also dismiss all his contribution to Tesla. And they even say that he's not a Tesla founder. And I know there's some nuance there. So I go through the whole history of Tesla's founding.
And I go through where credit is due. So I think Elon deserves a lot of credit around Tesla.
But I don't think that he is behind the main innovation at Tesla, which a lot of people give Tesla credit for being like a car company that's a technology company. That predates him. That predates him at Tesla. It was a Heberhardt interpreting idea, the two original car founders. The idea of like the software first, battery software and motor is going to be Tesla's three core technology. Obviously, it evolved a little bit since then, but when it comes to the automotive aspect of Tesla, this is still at the core of Tesla.
And obviously, I think the, you know, if you want to be more specific, Tesla's biggest innovation ever was the idea of using off-the-shelf lithium-ion battery cells that had just become a lot better through the consumer electronic market.
to use that and package it with thousands of cells into a battery pack that would give electric vehicle a long range and make it a no compromise vehicle versus casting vehicle that's also an idea that preceded uh elon joining tesla it was eberhard and tarponning that i just thought about that through uh their own work in the personal consumer electronic space they did a very early inhaled device i think in 96 or something they had an ebook
device that wasn't handheld like very early for the time. And the next generation was using lithium-ion batteries when they sold the company. So that's when they thought that they were obviously concerned about climate change and all that. And they did the math and like, yeah, electric vehicles could be possible. And with that, if we can package those lithium-ion cells into something big enough to be a car battery pack, it would be a no-compromise vehicle. And that's when, you know, AC propulsion... It's like they're
We got the idea first with AC propulsion or Eberhard and tarponning. But we do know that when... I thought it was part of the same thing. It's all... If you read the article, it's clearer a little bit. Like, I'm going fast right now. But AC propulsion at the first version of the T0 was using... Nickel cadmium. Yeah. And then they switched over in the early 2000 to lithium-ion.
And we know that Heberhard was talking to them during the transition, during the conversion to the new cells. So it's not clear if he gave them the idea because we know that Heberhard tried to get AC Propulsion to just commercialize that vehicle instead of doing Tesla. And then when he told them, no, that's when they incorporated Tesla in 2023. And then Elon joined in later that year, well, started talking to Tesla later that year and then joined in in 2024. And then J.B. Straubel connected Tesla
connected to with elon over his hydrogen aircraft that he was working on at the time but they both have an interest in two electric vehicles and so gb made elon aware of ac propulsion and then elon tried to do the same thing with ec propulsion convert convince them to commercialize the product ac propulsion didn't want to do that but they were like hey we know a guy that's trying to do the exact same thing as you so they connected elon to eberhard and then boom tesla happened
But still, I wanted to put the entire early history of Tesla together and talk about who should give credit for who in the early innovation of Tesla. So that's how they're going to read that. And if you want to send that to people that question how things happen, because Elon deserves a lot of credit for Tesla, obviously, but...
Also, not everything. I think a lot of people, the comment that we're responding to that Elon doesn't have anything to do with the success of Tesla, not completely true, but I do agree that a lot of his fans blow up his technical contribution to Tesla. He has some technical contribution, but I think a lot of the engineers there deserve credit. Hiberhard, interpreting for making the vision first.
elon financing that vision executing on that vision but also a lot of the you know gb's trouble i think obviously they deserve a lot credit more credit than he's given uh guys like drew maglino guys like um like uh even small guys like uh colin campbell guys like friends friends the designer too and all that i think those that's great important stuff that people deserve those credits
All right. I think that's pretty much it for us. Thanks a lot, everyone, for listening to the show this week. And thanks to everyone that commented and asked questions. We're going to see you same time, same place next week. And if you do enjoy the show, please give us a like, a thumbs up, a subscribe, all those things help the show more than you think. And they are free to do. Bye-bye.