Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Welcome to the WNBA Nation. W Nation, welcome. Welcome in.
Welcome in. This is probably our last episode that we're going to be able to record before the season starts. I can never believe how quickly we go from the Final Four to the WNBA season. I am your host today, Logan Jones, and I'm joined by co-host Steve Schwartzman in your high-ceilinged echoey room. How are you doing, Steve? Oh, I'm doing good. Yes, I'm in our upstairs bedroom while we're getting work done in our office basement.
And it is a much bigger, like, space of your room. So if I have cathedral effect on the audio today, that's on me. Doing my best. Now, Steve, you specifically requested we do this episode because I heard you say that you wanted to overreact to every preseason basketball thing that has happened in the W. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I don't know if you know this, but...
Just about every rookie is, is made it. We've essentially determined who the champions are going to be. So we might even just call off the season altogether. I don't know if I'm like old fashioned about that or not, but I just, I, I always like people say grain of salt. I always like pound of salt preseason games in every league. I, I, yeah. Grain of salt makes it sound like, like preseason results. Yeah.
are important. And this is, we were talking about this just right before we hit record, which is why we're just launching into this today. But the, the only thing that I ever consider when I see stuff in the preseason, and this goes for every league, not just the WNBA is who is getting playing time.
And when a rookie is getting playing time, are they doing something with it? If they're not on the court or if they're on the court a lot, but they're getting like two points and a rebound, it's like, oh, that could be a problem. But even that I don't consider prescriptive for the season.
Everything else is just like, oh, good. They're doing what they should do. Andrew Reese is out there playing well. Caitlin Clark's out there playing well. They're doing what they should do. That's not what the rotation or the minutes or the intensity is going to be like in the regular season. It's not prescriptive for the season. It's just a reason to be like, great. We're getting the rookies some reps. Yeah.
I would consider preseason just as influential on how I think about a team's regular season success as if they televised a workout. If the Fever were like, we did a team workout today, I wouldn't look at it and just be like, dude, Asia's lifting pretty heavy.
I think she's going all the way this year. Like, I would not consider that something that would be influencing my decision. I think about it a lot. Like, in our college years, and I think anyone who went to college and was really into their sports teams would have the same experience. We're like...
When a football team would have spring camp and scrimmages, and sometimes basketball teams would have, like, open practice or something like that where you can, like, sit in and watch. You know you're not there to look at what the scoreboard says or, you know, those types of performances. You're very much there to watch, like, game film and, like, see how things are looking and how things – you know, like –
almost be a sports nerd and just like, not even what you're seeing in the scoreboard, what you're seeing in the stat sheet, but what are you actually watching these players do and how they're performing and how they're developing certain skills? It's why, uh,
A lot of people have been very excited to see these games. And I think a lot of that comes from the fact that they haven't been available before. And so it's cool to be able to have access to some of these games and see them. So I would never take that fun away from anybody like enjoy it, please. It's, it's good stuff. But a lot of people have seen how Kalen Clark's performed, how Andrew Reese has performed. And, and,
It almost already like starting to build up this idea, like here it is, like this is the product and this is how we're, yes, that's exciting. And it'd be cool to have those expectations. It's not even that I'm, I take any issue with those expectations. There are, there are a couple other thoughts I have in that, but I'll say like the performance, the rookie performance I've liked watching the most was Nika Mule.
And that's because, and a lot of that was from Zapruder type camera phone video from the stands or like clips that the storm have posted, like in game stuff that post on their socials because it's, it got nothing to do with how, like how many points you scored or how much she affected the storms performance. It's cause I realized they're letting her really do neat and mule stuff.
They're not trying... After watching...
LSU completely pull the reins really hard on Haley Van Lith and not let HVL be HVL for that season at LSU. It's refreshing to see the storm be like, go do the Nika Mule thing and let's see if it works. They're not trying to squeeze her into like, this is the role we need you to play. It's like, no, we drafted you and we have plans for you to just be you at the pro level. That's I hope I didn't come off just a minute ago as sounding like don't watch the preseason. The results don't matter.
It matters when a player is gelling and when a team is obviously excited about a rookie pick. And like you mentioned just in pre-record, I think players making the roster is especially critical in the WNBA. So Vegas having some new faces at the end of the bench from their draft, that matters. Yeah. That stuff is all... Like you said, the sports nerd stuff is 100%...
The results aren't prescriptive, but this is where teams... I mean, you get basically two weeks to gel and to figure out your role on a team before games start mattering. So there is a little bit of a... Like, all right. Show us that you can do a little bit of what we hope you can do. Get on the roster and then we're going to go. Yeah. Like, the season begins. We're... Like...
When you're a fan of the WNBA draft, that's one of the more bittersweet nights of the year because you just don't have any good barometer on who you have a general feeling like the lottery level picks probably are going to stick around. But everyone else, like we have no clue who's going to make a roster, who's going to make the team. It's almost like you get drafted to try out for a team. And I would be shocked if some teams do it. You're invited to camp.
Yeah, like I would be shocked if some teams do like the high school tryouts format where a coach just walks out of his office and like tacks a list to a wall and you walk up to it and see if you made the next workout or whatever. That's definitely how Cheryl Reeve announces the roster, right? Like she just prints it out. It almost feels like that's got to be... It has to be. I would almost be impressed. I wish like Hollywood movies did that. I wish that like...
J.J. Abrams stepped out of his house and put up a cast list, so A-listers had to drive to his house and go look at it and be like, oh my gosh, I'm in the new Star Trek or whatever. Like that – bring that back. No, like I think one other element of the preseason games that I have enjoyed has been like team – like dynamics and seeing like – you can definitely tell certain teams are gelling. I feel like Seattle is gelling pretty well.
I think Chicago has gotten a lot of attention, and I think that there's some dynamic there. Like, there's certain teams that, as you watch how their branches react to each other and how, you know, just where there's good energy and where there might be less good energy, it's hard to tell. But other than that, you just kind of get hungry just to watch for the season to start. And that was my other thing is like,
I got so annoyed. This is me being like semantic journalism type speak. But like, I'm sorry. Caitlin Clark's debut wasn't last week. Angelique's debut wasn't last week. Preseason debut, fine. Way too many people were like, this is, here's their first ever basket. And I'm like, it doesn't get marked anywhere. It's cool. I don't know why that bugs me so much.
Yeah, if you're a Fever fan and you get to see her play at home in the preseason, and it's like, this is the first time we've gotten to see her play in a Fever jersey at home live. That's totally cool. I still wouldn't call it her...
pro debut but like it's it's like oh yeah we got to see her like we've now watched her play but like when stuff is on the line that's it's gonna be it's gonna be a lot more fun anyway i didn't mean to start this uh episode off with poopoo in the preseason i just i do want there to be uh reasonable reasonable expectations and takes for the season um what i do think is safe to say is uh
We have for probably two years now, maybe even longer, we've been looking ahead to this draft class and probably the next two years of draft classes after it as like that is going to be a class that changes the landscape of the league. And we haven't seen anything so far that...
removes that opinion. It certainly feels like... I agree. I think... We haven't talked about Cameron Brink or any of the Sparks draftees yet. Or Cardoso. Cardoso's hurt. She's going to miss the first several weeks of the season. But we are probably looking at a draft class that is going to be around the league for a long time. And considering the growth and increased interest and visibility of the league...
just over the past year. Not just because of Caitlin Clark, but new TV deals. The season's longer. We're getting 40 regular season games this year, which is great. This is the class that's going to oversee... They're going to be advancing into their primes while the league is expanding to hopefully 16 teams by 2028. This is the class that needs to perform and have... Generate
generate interest in the product as, as the league expands. Um, and, and as interest goes up, I don't think it's a coincidence why this was the year that Kathy Engelbert finally pulled the lever on charter flights.
Like I'm sure a lot of stuff went into that. I'm sure it's been in the works for some time and I'm sure there was kind of a rush job after watching clips of Caitlin Clark getting bombarded at public airports and not having enough people to be around her and things of that nature. But also, um, I think it just kind of feels like we've spent way too long not treating our stars like stars and it's going to get to a point where it's going to be unattainable. Like we have to, to lean in on this. And, um,
Like David Barry points out on Twitter every now and again, the money's got to be there. The revenue to make charter flights work has to be there. They just need to pull that lever. And I think it feels like they're at a place where they're like, we feel like the money we invest in this is safe. We're going to make this back over time. And that's kind of where the buzz of this incoming class and the next one to two classes following are going to create. It definitely feels like a new page.
Of the league. I don't think it's a takeover. Like some people are starting to believe, like we're just going to see a complete flip on, on who's taking over games and stuff like that in the league. It certainly feels like a turning point and turning points are good. No, I agree. I I'll say this, this is, this is just kind of a, I haven't seen anybody talk about this yet. And so I just want to throw this out there.
The draw of certain players is undeniable. Basketball can be a sport where if you have that one player on your team, it can change the outlook of your franchise, of your season, and just...
Like we've, we've seen eras in the NBA kind of be defined by either one or a handful of players. And I'll leave debating who those players should be to someone else. But like, obviously we are like the Kobe and LeBron and Michael stuff has like defined like our entire lifetimes of, of NBA fandom. The, the Caitlin Clark phenomenon is,
I, I, I, this isn't even talking about her or how good she is as a player, but just kind of the, the mass movement that is now following her into the WNBA. Like it's gonna change things. And this is the sort of stuff we mean, like the charter flights thing, uh,
You have to have money to do that. And some advertising TV money, wherever, that follows star power. You can look right now on ticket prices for... I actually had... I pulled up the Seattle Storm because I was looking at if I can get up to Seattle this year, what games do I want to catch? And tickets start at around $30 for every team except one. And it's not the reigning champion Vegas Aces team.
Mm-hmm. It's like every time they play Indiana in Climate Pledge Arena, tickets shoot up to like $75.
Like you, like you're doubling your, your, your in the door revenue every time they come. It's literally like throughout the season. I think they play in Seattle twice and it's everything else is across the board. Like 31, 31, 29, 26, 36. Like, it's just funny. You look around the league and you're like, well, what is it about that team? It's like, people want to see her play. And, and like, as the thing is, I don't think she's going to be the only player like this.
I think this is going to be the effect that Angel Reese, I think, has on a lot of the league. I think...
Brink has that same ability. I think Nika Mule... We could spend a whole episode talking about how she's going to be the most unique rookie to watch this year because she's not going to go out and set scoring records or anything like that. She could also usher in the post-Sue Bird era of Seattle basketball and be there for 10 years. So... Yeah. Over time, she could become one of those players. It's just... It matters. Having the star power...
Seeing tickets go up, seeing the charter fly, seeing the team expand, it's all part of the same ball of the money is there, the interest is there. We're growing at a rate that we're comfortable with. And it rolls into... This is not so much a discussion as it is an informal announcement, but...
By all accounts, we already know Golden State is getting a team in 2025. It is being reported that the owner of the Maple Leafs and the Raptors will have a pro WNBA team in Toronto by 2026, which is thrilling. Toronto has been on that shortlist for as long as this has been a discussion. And Toronto fans go hard.
So I'm pretty pumped about that. It's always nice to have another billionaire. This is the only nice thing I'll ever say about billionaires on this show is it's nice to have mega rich owners join the vision of like, hey, women's basketball, get in on it now. So that is very fun.
The only reason that it's not official yet is because it's expected that two weeks from now, they're going to make the official announcement and they want to do the whole fanfare thing. But it's already been reported basically everywhere that it's happening. And this isn't... I've seen references to Kathy Engelbert saying the goal is to reach 16 teams by 2028. I haven't actually seen the clip of her saying that. I believe it.
And I think 16 by 2028 is a good goal, if not a little bit drawn out for my taste, but that's fine. But getting another one in California, getting one in Toronto, it still leaves... Hopefully... I mean, we're all big fans of Salt Lake on this podcast, but Philly, Denver, Nashville, Florida...
Portland, if they don't fumble the bag, maybe Houston, if Houston could put something together, like those teams are still all in the mix for the next couple of years as well. Steve thoughts on announcing semi formal plans to expand to Canada. Yeah. I just get to credit sources. Obviously the Toronto story was broken by Shireen Ahmed at CBC sports, who has been following this development to my knowledge for
For a long time. When rumors had come up in previous, she'd been following along. So this is definitely a credible source to feel like when we say it's all but official, that it feels decent saying that. Because we ran into the situation with Portland where it felt like Portland was definitely going to be called on to join.
with the Bay area over next season. And that fell through, but it sounds like this is, is going to be pretty standard of a move. I've made my call as to like teams and cities, you know, like, yeah, obviously the bulk of us live in Utah. It'd be kind of cool to have a team to have Utah get another chance at a WNBA team, but we're not trying to say anyone's more deserving than that. I've often of the belief that if Houston had a strong case, uh,
They have to immediately go to the top of the list because it's now been 16 years that possibly the most important franchise in the league's history hasn't existed, and that's not okay. Outside of that, Toronto is the place that I'm most excited to hear about. Just obviously, you go back to last year with the first Canada game and the energy that resonated out of that.
I think the Edmonton game was a very strategic move in a way that it was the league's way of seeing, okay, we know we can draw a crowd in the city in Toronto, but if we put a team in Toronto, we're sort of making them Canada's team. So if we go to a different city, are we still going to have that same buzz, that same lift so that we get the feel for like,
This whole country is going to rally around this organization. And I think they've learned that that's going to happen. Like they feel that energy lifting. I know this is something they've wanted for a while. I know that there's a lot of energy moving toward it. So, you know,
The other reason I was scared to bring it up isn't because I don't think the report's official. I'm scared that I'm going to jinx it by talking about it. You know, I think that's what it is. It's like, I don't want to say anything and all of a sudden it doesn't happen. But, you know, should this continue to go the way it's going and it goes through, you
They're a few places more deserving than Toronto. I kind of have my short list of like, if we're going to bump this up to 16, who should be next? But I love the move. I'm really excited for them. I haven't figured out yet what the team name should be. We don't even have any branding for the Golden State team. So it's going to be a good while before we get any idea what Toronto could even do. But yeah,
I will be speculating heavily. Yeah, we will definitely cover uniform and name and stuff like that extensively when it comes time. Although I trust... Oddly, I trust the WNBA to get those things right more than I trust Ryan Smith. Yeah. Sorry, that's a little bit of a Utah hockey call out there. Go Ice! I will be... Go Utah Ice! Uh...
Go blast. Blizzard.
what it's like to be here right now. Changing gears. I should have brought it up. I do think the ESPN report, which is actually the Reuters report, which is actually the original report because everybody's just parroting the same report, is that they're going to play in an 8,000-seat Coca-Cola Coliseum, which is fine. But they did the last two Canada games, they sold out a 20,000-seat arena and then
Last week, capacity crowd of over 16,000 in Edmonton. So hopefully not that don't hear what I'm saying. I don't want people to build any billionaire new stadium, but hopefully, hopefully they can line something up that seats enough people. I remember watching the Raptors win the NBA title a couple of years back and realizing like, Oh, Toronto basketball fans are like good.
Like a lot of fan bases think that they have the best fan base in sports, but I was watching tens of thousands, just like in the streets of Toronto, watching outside as their team won a championship. Like they just showed up every night to watch the outdoor screening. And I was like, ah, these guys are cool. So, uh, good for Toronto. Um, in terms of other headlines, just that, I mean, the season starts on the 14th. It is 40 games, which is substantial, but you can't really start slow. Uh,
It's not enough games where you can start slow. So we are very interested in what the schedule looks like early on for some of these teams. I've taken a very preliminary look at some of the schedules. Mostly, again, I was looking at Seattle just the other day to see what I could get to. There are definitely a lot more... I don't have data on this. It looks like there's a lot more extended road trips and then extended homestands this year than I can ever remember.
At one point, Seattle, I think, plays 10 straight home games. And I've seen that on a couple of other schedules as well. So I wonder if they're trying to mitigate some of the mid-season travel, like a couple teams at a time. Obviously, that means other teams are traveling as well. But I don't have any...
like thoughts on that besides like, I'm fine with it. I, I know that it's rigorous to be on the road for a long time. Um, but as long as it's not like back to backs or four games in five nights or anything like that, I do think it's wise to, to have a chunk of your schedule and be like, all right, this is our big homestand. Come out and see us. Or, you know, we're going to be at Connecticut for a couple of games and then at New York, right next door. And then, you know, they're, they're definitely trying to cluster, uh,
some of those road games together as much as they can, which I think is smart. I don't know if you have any thoughts on schedule stuff. We also have the business of it's a couple days old, but the Candice Parker retirement. Can we talk about it?
Can we talk about it? It's hard to think of anything to say that hasn't been said, but I mean, I don't think, I don't think it really impacts my, my perspective on the aces. And I'm assuming it doesn't really affect your stance on the aces being a contender either. No. Um, and that wasn't everyone. I just want to talk about how she did it. Um, because it was the first time that someone did it in a way that wasn't a long drawn out ceremonial, uh,
season long farewell it was like like literally the note began with like i'm retiring and then it was the note and i was like candace parker's the coolest person in the why is this not the norm like thank you so and no no unreadable all caps like yeah oh graphic where you can't even quite tell what they're saying and yeah like i and i also love that like like athlete retirement
Is not like, oh, you'll never see her here for me again. She's on TV. She's now... She's been named Adidas President of Women's Basketball, which is freaking sick. She's still going to be around. And I actually really like her as a voice in women's basketball a lot. And I appreciate that she's going to, I assume, be leaning more into that without her playing. But like... The...
Okay, I have varying opinions on like the retirement season, like telling everyone you're going to retire before the season and then going and playing everywhere and getting like highlight packages and stuff like that. Like, to some degree, I understand that because there are players that I think warrant retirement.
and like appreciating like this is a legend of the game. They've won a lot. They've done a lot for the sport. Like we should take a long time to kind of recognize what they've done. And I think Candice Parker is easily one of those players. Yeah. But we didn't really get to do that. Yeah. And I kind of, I don't know what you do about it now, but like I kind of want the opportunity to be like, she's one of the greats. Like she wasn't just someone who was like,
I almost wish there was a way to sort of do that in the sense of like the aces or even the sky or the sparks could hire her as like a consultant or something. Right. Where she gets to attend the games on behalf of the team and still get that exact moment of like, we want to give you this real and celebrate you. Um,
All of those franchises. I mean, I understand why the Aces might not because he was only with them for one season. But everyone else should have been planning her jersey retirement already. Like that should just happen. Compare it to the Sue Bird year that we just had where we knew like this is it.
You know, like we got the highlight packages and we got kind of the recognition at away games and stuff like that. I think Candice and Lisa Leslie should be included in the hall of Staples Center statues. Like all of the accolades are there. The one thing I'll say about the decision on this is in a way it's very Candice Parker of her.
So much about this was her just being like, okay, I'm going to go do this. I'm going to go do it. I don't need a PR team. I don't need – I've made the decision and I'm going to go do this. And I think something that I've come to understand about Candice, one, through that W history and just –
feeling like I got to know a little bit about who this person is. Obviously, I've never met Candace Parker. I don't know anything about her actual personality, so I'm not trying to claim that. But she is definitely somebody who thinks about everything with any decision. To the point where, like, if you have something you could slightly speculate, that probably is something that came to mind with this. And I say that because what I'm about to say sounds like wild speculation, and it may be, but, like, the timing of it in a lot of ways makes sense. I wouldn't be shocked if she looked at her current...
state, maybe, you know, the exacerbation of her injury and how long it would take to recover on that piece. How effective is she was going to be on this court? The mere fact that just how you started this, she probably had thought about, listen, if I walk away from the team right now, they'll be fine. Like this is still a championship caliber team that could be well on their way to a three Pete. Like I don't have any issue with that. And then the other side of it is like watching the draft and,
Seeing what the aces managed to pull out of that draft when they didn't have a first round pick and realizing the fact that like if Candice Parker shows up as like a novelty or tribute spot on this roster, Deja Fair, Kate Martin, like somebody doesn't get to be on this team. Someone doesn't get to contribute to this and they need it so much more than I do. And yeah,
I wouldn't be shocked if that's something that came to mind with her. She's always been someone who's wanted to give more to the game than she's taken. And the fact that she has the opportunity to step away and basically say anywhere I've been, anything I've done is now better off for me having been there. I'm going to go before it's to the point where it feels like I'm taking something away from it. Like I,
We see this a lot in other large leagues like the MNBA where you have players sign these vanity contracts at the very end of their career. Sure. Kobe Bryant was one of them. You could argue LeBron James might be one of them. There are baseball players who've done this where they hurt their team's salary cap so much because they take these large contracts because I'm me and I've contributed so much to this. So now I deserve this huge contract that doesn't allow us to make proper maneuvers around me.
And I know that the salary situation is different, but with 144 spots in one league, I could easily see someone like Candice Parker saying, it's better for me to step away when I know it's the right time and allow somebody the opportunity that they deserve. And listen, if she decided exactly, you said, this is my last year and we're going to have the farewell tour and I'm going to do all of this. I don't think anyone's angry about it. I think it's very well deserved, but again,
I think Candice is someone who likes to feel like she left somewhere better than when she showed up. And that's admirable. Not to mention her retirement, post-retirement life is set up. President of women's basketball, that's fantastic. She's a bona fide media personality. I mean, that's all there. She's such a highly respected person in the name, as a name in this sport.
that it's the fact that we're not going to just kind of never get to see Candace Parker again. There's really kind of two different types of retirements.
Well, there's three because some people do the coach route, but there's there's my more retirements and there's Candace Parker retirements. And it's funny because neither of them, I guess, did the farewell thing. So I guess maybe throw in a Sue Bird retirement. There's there's different types of retirements, but like and none of them, they all have their same flavor, but yeah.
It's the fact that she's not going to go away. She's very much going to be a part of what we enjoy about basketball, and that's great. But any accolades we could say have been said so many times. The only thing I'll shamelessly plug is maybe this is a very worthy time to go and listen to the Candice Parker W History series about her first year in the league. Yes, do it.
her 2008, which is one of the most amazing like calendar years someone can have in the game of basketball. You know, maybe go do that. But otherwise, yeah, just congrats. It was, it was sobering, but very cool. And I think I'm not the only one who's excited to see what happens next. Yeah. And you know what? The Aces just went on their white house visit and,
As is their right as the reigning champs. If she just wanted to stay there and just be the president of being the president, that would be fine too. That's the most political I'll get today. That's basically what we had prepared for today's episode other than I have looked ahead a little bit at...
Tuesday's league debut day. There are four games that day. And then let's see two games Wednesday and a game on Thursday. So next week kicks off with a bunch of good games. You're going to see New York at Washington in a rematch of last year's first round playoff game series. You're going to see Indiana go play at Connecticut. That's an Indiana team. Everyone's interested in versus a Connecticut team that I think people should be really interested in because they are a question mark this year.
Yeah. Somehow they will end up being the same Connecticut team that they've always been. But I'm interested to see how they do it this year. Phoenix is going to go lose a game at Vegas. That's going to be on ESPN2. And then Minnesota will go play at Seattle. And I think that's actually got potential to be a very good one as well. So I am interested in seeing the rookies. I think those are all games where you're going to see some new players play.
play that you're not used to it's going to be interesting to see like are the liberty going to come out swinging after having that kind of year last year and falling just short um i have questions about a lot of these different teams so yeah i don't know if you have anything uh anything there i do feel the need to say this will be kalia copper and natasha cloud's first game in a phoenix mercury jersey i
I'm not crowning them by any means, but I think that's going to be a fun reaction. But you're talking about, I'm pretty positive that's ring night for the aces and that's big night. So there's a lot of cool stuff there that'll happen. Apparently there's, I mean, no one's shocked by this, but there are reports that there's going to be like finals level coverage for the
these first Clark games in Connecticut and then their home debut in Indiana. It's amazing after everything we've done and said over the years,
something that carries this much buzz is following the Indiana fever. Isn't it? Like it's... It almost had to be. It's poetic. You know? And because for... Well, for five or six years, they were truly bad. Last year, I don't think they were truly bad. I think it was the result of we cleared out our front office. We got a new coach. We drafted a number one overall. And...
And last year was the growing pains that you expect from any team. That's like, we have wiped the slate clean and we were starting over, but man, right place, right time. Um, and I, and it's, we haven't seen her play a real pro game with stakes yet, but like, I hope she delivers. Cause I,
It was fun. Sabrina's three-game debut before she got hurt was so fun. I know people were a little bit annoyed that Nike had crowned her already and she was going to New York, which is a team that had a bunch of stars on it already. But they came out and immediately it was like, oh, the Liberty don't suck. And Sabrina's like, she's a rookie. She's going to be good. This is going to be so fun. I think Clark could capture that same sort of imagination this year. And
It would, it's going to, I will, I will spring this on you because I don't know if we're going to get around to, to full preseason predictions this weekend or not. I hope we do. I hope we do. But if not, are the fever playoff team.
Well, I'm going to be completely honest. I actually thought we were doing predictions today, so I had them like... We could do... Okay. I have my list. We're doing them right now. And there's only two of us. We like to do this with four of us, but we can't. But we probably have time. We're 36 minutes in. We're going to be lightning quick about it. I have my ratings ready. I have it ready to go, so I don't want to spoil that. But I do have my thoughts on the Fever. But if you...
You can give me either your fever thoughts or you can just start at the top. You can start at the bottom, however you want to do it. I'm just so happy to hear that you have your list. I will say this. The fever are not... They might not be my spiciest take in terms of the standings. But I definitely see there being an uplift. But it's the difficulty of it with the fever is...
In crowning them a playoff team, are you saying Kaitlyn Clark is a soul-like missing piece for this team? Because I don't think that's true. I think there's a lot being contributed to this roster, but I think the buzz and the interest is there. But like you said, this is something that I don't think is going to change. I mean, when you look at the potential of stardom that's joining the league next year,
And one of them is going to be taking on... When Paige Beckers goes to Golden State and starts her renaissance there and builds a franchise there, it's a whole new different level. And then, I don't even know, when Juju Watkins takes over in Toronto, maybe? I don't know. Or Philly. Maybe she takes an extra year in Philly and will get a team. And it'll be, you know...
This is just cool stuff, but I'm ready. It is cool stuff. I'm very ready. I have... I am too. We didn't do this on purpose, so I'm not calling this burying the lead. I have award predictions. We're doing it. I have rank standings. Oh, this is so exciting. We do this however you want to do it. I'm so excited. Okay. Do you want to start best to worst? Do you want to do standings first or do you have award predictions?
Let's save award predictions for the end. Okay, that's fine. We'll just go straight ranks. All right, I'll give you... How about we break it up like this? Give me... Let's do lotteries first. Let's break it up by saying I want to hear who your lottery teams are, and then we'll get to how we rank our top eight playoff teams. Okay. I have... Oh, boy. This is going to expose a couple things. Okay.
Okay. These are all such good franchises that I have not making the playoff. I have the following teams as lottery teams. Phoenix, Mystics, Storm, Lynx. Storm and Lynx. In that order? Yeah. I have Mercury, then Mystics, then Storm, then Lynx. So you have the Mercury at the bottom, the Mystics at 11, you have the Storm at 10. This is definitely going to be fun.
This is definitely going to be a fun night. So congratulations to those four teams because you're all making the playoffs and having phenomenal years because I have jinxed teams so hard with my predictions in the past. I had Connecticut 11th last year, guys. So don't get up in arms just yet. That or like you may have now just sent...
Like, Paige the Golden State, Kiki Yaryov, and some of the Mercury. You may be doing them a favor for all of you. These are franchises that win, right? Anyway, those are my lottery picks. So I have some similarities. Actually, I don't have many similarities. So this is really going to be tough. I think the only team in the lottery that I have with you is the Mystics. I have the Mystics at 12. I have the Sparks at 11. I have the Sky at 10. I have the Dream at 9.
Keep in mind, this sounds bad, but the difference between like fifth and 11th or fifth and 10th was two games in the standings. Yes. So, so this isn't even saying like all these teams are going to be bad. Like I expect up to the 10, maybe even the 11, like being in the mix for a lot here, but I'm, I'm glad you said that. I, I have taken that approach to my rankings. Like,
Like I've said it on a couple episodes now. I think the win-loss percentage of teams three through ten will be incredibly close this year. Yeah. Like the individual, like where you have it, like, oh, are they the four seed or are they the seven seed? Like it's probably going to be a game or a tiebreaker. Like I think that we're in for that kind of a season. I do think there's a tear break somewhere. I think after the top...
Two teams and then after the top 10 teams. I do think the bookends are going to be a little bit more obvious. But I agree. I think the team... I have the Lynx just missing the playoffs. That means that they're probably two games away from being in the thick of the playoff hunt or even getting home court advantage. Yeah. And that's kind of where I was with the Sky. It was like I could see...
A case where if things, if like three or four games flip differently than I would expect, this guy suddenly you're like a five or a six in the rankings. And it's not too shocking. Um, it's the biggest thing with me for this guy is Cardo. So I hope she's healthy and I hope that this is just a safe extent, but, um,
The energy that came out of Cardoso and Reese joining this roster, I really want them to have as much time to gel and build a very power frontcourt. And if they're able to develop that in any way, the Sky could do a lot more. But that injury did scare me a little bit, so that's part of it. It looks like we both have the Mystics dropping. I feel terrible for the Mystics in a lot of ways. Like, there's just...
A lot not going their way. Losing star power to other teams. It seems like they have to be in for a bottom falls out a year. The face of your franchise is holding out. You know, it's just... Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot in Washington right now, which really stinks. But that's part of it. Moving forward, do you want to do... Do we want to do four at a time or do you want to just do your top eight? I'll do my... Here, I'll do my...
Do we want to do like the middle of the pack teams? Yeah, let's do the middle four. So in order of...
How do I want to do this? I'll keep working my way up. So the last team in the playoffs as my eighth seed, I have the Sparks. Okay. The seventh seed, I have the Fever. So... And that's... Again, that's probably like a tiebreaker level of like, oh, they were one game away from missing the playoffs entirely. I think it's going to be really close. So for the sake of fun, I have the Fever at seven. I have Atlanta at six. I'm very nervous about...
them there and then oh okay i made this list before the cardozo injury and then i just kind of stuck with it because i was like i do think that they're going to be there's there's a team every year that surprises and a team every year that falls i have chicago at five it doesn't feel very good now like i look at chicago and atlanta and i think those could easily be
Out of the playoffs entirely. Weirder things could happen. It doesn't feel good. A lot of people believe in this Teresa Witherspoon effect. A lot could change here. Like it's, it's really interesting. It's, it's such a different team from last year that you can't, you can't use any, like anything past that.
But like with all the Clark buzz and everything, I think Chicago actually has some stuff going on. And I think Angel Reese, like I just opened the episode talking about how I don't want to use any Angel Reese preseason stuff as like, oh, this is what this means. But like, I think she's going to power that team.
to some wins that they shouldn't get this year. If there's anyone who's not going to be about playing like a rookie, it would be injuries. Just like I'm not doing the wait for my time shit. Like I'm just going to show up and ball. Yeah. They were the last team in last year. They were 18, 22, but it's such a different team. Is it weird? This is finally the moment to bring this up. We haven't brought this up on the pod yet that I can think of.
Me having them at 10, is it weird that the new Rebel jersey might be a part of that? No, that's not weird at all. In fact, that makes me even more nervous about my pick. Yeah, I just, it was, was that the worst of the rollouts this year? I've seen a lot of people who like it online, which surprises me.
Maybe we just don't have Gen Z eyes that see the sky-ish gradient the way we should. But when you compare it to the shattered glass look, it just feels like a step down. And I don't know how it doesn't to you.
Just for the sake of because it's right in front of me, last year's five seed was the Atlanta Dream at 19 and 21. And the first team out of the playoffs was 17 and 23 Sparks. So two games can be the difference between in the thick of it and you are sitting out. It's a huge difference. So that's why I like doing these next four. So I have the Mercury at eight. So I have them only just getting in. Okay.
And honestly, if that flipped to the sky, if that flipped to the dream, it's not a shocker at all. I also have the fever at seven. That feels right. Let's go. It just feels right. I have the lynx at six, and I think it's just because the lynx at six just...
I think I might have picked the Lynx at six, like every year we've done this, minus like 2018. Which is smart, because they're always going to be a game or two away from 500. That's about where you can blend on it. And then I finish it off with Dallas at five. So I have the Wings at five, which drops them back a peg. Okay.
And there's lots of reasons for that. We'll get to in a minute, but it's nothing really against them. The wings and the dream are the two teams that are intrigued to me because they're probably the rosters that from my estimation changed the least. And that's always maybe the aces too, but like that's always a questionable move in this league where like teams making one to two market, like market changes can like completely change the spectrum of the standings. Yeah.
And so that's an interesting case for me, but I'm very, I'm very intrigued by, by your three and four. Um, yeah, no, that I, I am nervous about you having the links up there, but I guess I have them as the first one out. And again, that could be the difference of about two games. So yeah.
At six, that makes total sense. It's just a matter of like, oh, like their defense fell apart in the fourth quarter, like one or two fewer times than I thought it was going to. So now six. Exactly. All right. I'll give you I'll give you my. All right. My four seed is Connecticut. Here's why I'm holding my head in my hands. I thought last year was going to be the like Kurt Miller left.
The bottom is going to fall out. They're going to wipe the slate clean. Basically what I just said, I thought was going to happen to the mystics this year. I thought that was going to be Connecticut last year and I was dead wrong.
So wrong. There were not just two power teams in the league last year. I know it felt like for a lot of the season, it was going to be Vegas and New York. And that's exactly what it was. Connecticut pounded everybody else. They were pretty even with the Aces and the Liberty. And then they were 27 and 13. They were five games ahead of the rest of that pack that we keep talking about that we're all really close together. They were in the upper crust with the contenders. Yeah.
Like they always have been. So maybe this is the year that it falls apart more. For one to save you time, and I'll just bring up my note now. I also have the Sun at four. I had the Sun 11th last year.
Me too. I had them last year. I was just like, I thought the Kurt Miller era was over and it was going to be rebuilding time for them. Like they have pieces to get good, but they're going to have to revitalize. They lost their MVP. What, you know, all this that was going to happen.
And if there's anything that the Sun love, it's you forgetting about the Connecticut Sun. They love that. Oh my gosh. So this year, we both have them at four. I hope that they are still a contender level team because they still have a bunch of players on that roster that I think are like, why wouldn't they be?
I hope they stay healthy and that they are good because it will make the league a lot more interesting. But I am so thrilled to hear about your reasoning for your three seat now, because I've done the math and I know who it's going to be. And I am here for it.
I am here for it. I'm just kidding. My number three is Dallas. They didn't change a lot from last year, but I think they have players that are going to respond when more is asked of them this year. And I really do believe in the Wings being a cut above the middle tier of the league. So if they take a step forward, I think they can easily finish this top three team. Steve, let's hear it. I've got the Storm at three. Woo!
I do. Listen. That is spicy. Second to worst team in the standings. I get it. I understand it.
But damn if I haven't liked what I've seen so far at the Storm. And I know, I said the same thing about preseason. So I'm not here to say like, oh, they look like... I don't even know if they won that game against Phoenix in the preseason. I have no idea. But watching the dynamics and what this team could do, seeing how well that the Skydig and NECA dynamic fits with Jewel Lloyd's style of play, just looking up and down at this roster, it feels like they have...
the potential to almost overachieve. And a lot of teams have done this in this space. We're five or so years removed, maybe even a few more removed of the Atlanta dream made a random run to a second seed a few years ago. You know, we've had teams who put themselves in the mix and,
That was kind of shocking when you actually looked at what they put together. And I could see that happening. I'm not saying that there's suddenly going to be this dominant team that's going to overwhelm everyone on a whole. But I like the changes they've made, and I like the vibe that they give off. And I just see them being very good. Would you take the positive that this team –
showed last year. Obviously, Lloyd, Drew Lloyd's offensive performances, Ezi Magruder playing like an all-star. Like, you take all of that and you put together these pieces. I just like what I see. This is similar to how I felt about Dallas last year. And...
I think a lot of people had Dallas like middle ground at best, maybe down a little bit, but I looked up and down Dallas's roster last year and I liked what I saw. And I still like what I saw, like what I see. So like if they end up at the three spot, I wouldn't be shocked at all. I just, if there's one move on my standings that I go like, I could see it happening and I could see it making this really fun for the season. It's Seattle making the meteoric rise. And last thing I will say is do not question the power of
of your own practice facility. And there's something about that, that breeds energy into an organization. It's, it's sick to freaking hell. Like it's amazing. Um,
facility. Oh, man. This is good. As I mentioned, I have the Storm at 10. I do think they're going to be really fun to watch this year, but I didn't think it was going to translate to wins. And on paper, you're talking about an 11-29 team last year that's going to springboard. I don't know how many wins it takes to get up to number three, but into the above 25. So you're talking about more than doubling their last year's win total. But then you look at
Every other metric, which I have been frantically doing since you have revealed this, which if the listeners didn't know, I did not know that Steve felt this way until five minutes ago. I didn't know I felt this way until about an hour ago. Again, very different team than last year.
Jewel Lloyd basically just like, I'm going to score all the points and we're not going to win very many games. That was the storm last year. That's the super short nutshell version of it. So as you've said, they've added Skydig. They've done some things that are going to help that team put some more offense on the board. They should have been a Lynx Mystics, maybe a couple games short of 500 type team last year. They lost a bunch of games that they shouldn't have.
So it's not actually as drastic an improvement as I think if this happens, it's not going to be like they were miserably bad and now they're super, super good. What happened? I think it's they underperformed last year by probably more games than any other team based on like what you'd expect based on the numbers. And if they like positively regress back to where they should be this year and then take a step forward because they're better roster wise, then
It puts them right there in the mix. Like, the argument is definitely there. I'm very nervous because one of us is going to be dead wrong. And I'm pretty used to it being me. But I also think, look at what the Liberty did in the previous offseason. And they added even more, so granted. But they went from being...
Back of the pack, I mean, they were just barely a playoff team the season before this, before that. And then they retooled, and they were able to immediately flip it into some success. And I just feel like the Storm could do that. And that's including the fact that we both also agree that their Rebel jersey is also a downgrade. It is a downgrade. And it is a downgrade. But maybe it's a new era for them, and maybe it's something that they're standing with and...
One thing that makes a bad jersey look good is when good basketball happens inside of it. So that's one thing. And I'll say this. Yeah. Yeah, go on.
Well, I'm going to say you make your point and then I'll finish up. Well, I was just going to say, to be a top three team in the league, I think you have to have someone on your team, even if you're the Connecticut Sun. You have to have someone that's playing at an MVP level and getting some MVP looks, even if it's like, oh, it's going to be Asia, it's going to be Bree or whatever. They're in the discussion. And I think you did have that last year with Connecticut. And I think if Seattle doesn't lose all those games last year, Jewel Lloyd...
Is that player. So like, if you're thinking like, there's no way Seattle can climb that high because in order to get that, you have to have that player. Like it was jewel Lloyd's best season. She averaged 25 points a game. Like she didn't turn the ball over. She, she just did everything more. And part of that is because the team asked her to do more. I understand that. But like, she's like,
She is that player. Even if you just go per 36 instead of like, oh, she had more volume of two more shots. Yeah.
I think like Ezi Magogor like made an all-star team and made some improvements. Yeah. You get to fortify Jewel Lloyd with Skylar Diggins-Smith. You get to fortify Magogor with Neko Guma Kei. There's just a lot of good equations happening there. But I'll say this, Logan, is I've got the Storm at three. It gets better. Oh. And that's all I'm going to say for now. Well, I will continue to be boring. I have the liberty of two.
And I have the Aces at one. I am also Chuck. I believe... Oh, okay. I'm also Chuck. I believe the Aces, the Liberty, Dallas, and Connecticut represent my core of who I expect to be real contenders next year. With Dallas probably... Even though Dallas was just the four seed last year, I think they're going to be the most surprising...
I think people will consider them able to win a series against some of those, those upper crust teams. But by the end of this season, I think we're going to be talking about them. Like they are, they're good now. Um,
So sorry, Dallas. Looking at my list, I'm starting to really doubt my Chicago is going to be in their pick. I do think Atlanta is going to try to take a step forward, but also sometimes it will transit to wins. Other times, I think they're still going to be middle of the pack. Very excited for a Fever and Sparks team to just make that cut.
if that's what happens. But man, your rankings are fun. Do you expect it to be Aces Liberty at the top looking down upon the rest of the league again? Or do you think that tightens up a little bit? I do feel the need to say a part of why I did have the Storm at three and not four, by the way, probably because if I did Aces Liberty Sun, that's literally last year's standings and it just felt boring. And if there's one thing we know about the league, it's that it's like not. It doesn't work that way. Yeah, exactly.
I fully expect a rematch to happen in the finals, yes. Yeah, I would agree with that. And predicting that is weird because I don't know what's a hot take anymore.
I don't think that's a hot take. I think it's probably the safest prediction. Although you could plug another team in there and argue that like, oh, well, this player leaving injuries or whatever. I'm never going to assume injuries or anything like that in the preseason. What I do hope happens is we didn't get a lot of... Remember the year that Phoenix made a run from the sixth seed?
And it felt like, yeah, there's 12 teams, eight make the playoffs. We have an easy time arguing that someone can get in. But it's a lot harder to argue that one of those low seeds can do something. Chicago and Phoenix fixed the playoff format. I truly believe a five and a six making the finals is why they just said, we're just going to do a straight up playoff format now because...
We thought that this would benefit our 1-2 and they found a way to blow it up. Yeah. So if you look at this year, the teams that I see not sneaking into the playoffs, but your dream, your fever, your sparks, or in your case, this would be the Mercury and the Fever and the Lynx, those types of teams. I think we both feel comfortable saying they'll be playing in the postseason, but how many games they're going to win, don't ask me that.
I think this is the year that one of those punches its way up. And I don't know who it's going to be.
I don't think the fever magic is that potent. But yeah, I could see it being a Cheryl Reeve team. I could see it being a Sparks team that's like, oh, right. They have the number two overall pick and the number four overall pick. And they're coached by a guy who knows what he's doing. And they're freaking good. It could be any of those. It's probably going to be the Mystics. Yeah, that's the way it's going. Yeah.
It's going to be the Mystics. Alright, you said you had awards picks. I do. Who do you have in your final real quick? Do we want to pick our champions very last or do we want to do it right now? We can do it right now. We're talking standings right now. I'm not going to pick... I'm not going to pick... This is tough because you're either predicting a three-peat or you're predicting a first-time champion like Revenge Tour. I...
At this moment in time and for the rest of the season, because I'm going to stick to it because I'm not a wuss. You have to either pick against Bree Stewart or against Asia Wilson. Those are both bad bets. It's a bet against either of those teams. I think it's so hard to three-peat. I'm going to put my money on New York. I'm also going with the Liberty, and I know that that's probably wrong.
but like I could see it. Obviously the aces feel ready-made for a three-peat, but we haven't seen a three-peat in this league since the first team. It's so hard to three-peat. It's incredibly hard. You just never see it. It's incredibly difficult. And I think my individual awards will also play to the narrative for New York as well. I, I'm a narrative guy and I could see a certain thing happening with them. Um, but that'll have to come as we,
As we talk awards. So that's where I'm going to predict it. But like, you're welcome everyone to tell me how wrong I am. If the ACE is three beat, because it also makes a lot of sense. If, if New York won the title last year, I think it would change my pick for the champion this year. Yeah. That's how close it is. Well, like for people who are wondering how hard it is to three Pete,
It was nearly impossible to repeat until last year. Didn't happen for over 20 years. So take the difficulty of that. So that might be part of it. That also means that the Asia Wilson –
Aces are kind of the exception to the rule, though. It's true, though. Nothing helps. They kind of are. That's the thing. All right. Tell me what award... I have award ideas. I don't have them written down on my notepad, but give me yours and I will have mine ready. Do you want me to run the gauntlet? Absolutely. Go for it. I'm going to go in reverse order of what we typically do. My defensive player of the year is Alyssa Thomas.
Um, because statistically I believe she was second in defensive wind shares and had the second best defensive rating last year. And that just makes a lot of sense. I have Becky Hammond for coach of the year because it probably shocked the people that she didn't win it a second time last year, though. I thought Stephanie white deserved it. Uh, but this is a case where I could see it happening again for a lot of different reasons. Um,
I don't know if this is going to break any waves, but I have Caitlin Clark as Rookie of the Year. It's Rookie of the Year.
is preemptively given to the top pick until there's a reason to take it away from them. Right. Someone has to steal it. Yeah. And I just don't see that quite happening. I think there will be enough to make it happen. And while I don't expect Kate Clark to be the white savior of the league and how that works, I expect her to live up to a good amount of the hype. I mean, I have them seventh jumping from bottom of the barrel for the last decade to finally play off mix. So there's gotta be something to say about this. And are you ready for the slogan? Yeah.
Oh, here we go. I got Drew Lloyd as the MVP. Oh, let's go. And I think if Seattle's number three, it almost has to be. That's what it is. That's where it connects to me saying like, look, Asia's one, two and Bree Stewart, Stuart one, two. Stuart's Stewie's head to Asia's head too. And like one of them getting a third makes so much sense.
So this could just be me doing something different. And also Alyssa Thomas sneaking up and doing it when she was in the discussion late last year. She's actually like number three on the, like if you go by Vegas odds, which is the preseason, they don't know anything. So there's potential there. Like obviously there is because a lot of people were lobbying for that last year. And like I'm not going to sit here and argue that.
I just think you're coming off – July just broke the single season scoring average record, or at least the single season scoring record at the top scoring ability in the league last year. If you have someone with that level of proficiency on the court and they're able to guide a team to a top three seed, as I am currently predicting, I think the MVP case is really strong.
From that perspective. And I've been waiting for this is, by the way, is this biased of me? 100%. Because if you've listened to the show for the last seven years, you'll know that I might be the biggest Jewel Lloyd fan that there, she's been my favorite player as long as we've been following the league this closely. I've been a huge supporter of, of, of Jim. And so like, I, that's very much part of it.
If there was ever a time for there to be that like official like drool like coming out party where she decides like I'm going to be one of the names in this league that everyone talks about and I'm going to help generate that. I just feel like this would be the time.
And it feel like the narrative is there for it. So I'm going to have some fun. I could go Stewie. I could go Asia. I could go Alyssa Thomas. All those make sense. If I'm going to be potentially dumb enough to, to, to say that the storm are going to improve by eight spots, uh,
Might as well be crazy enough to give a reason for that. You do the same thing I do when you make picks for things, which is like, if this, then this. So, like, if the Storm are here, then the Coach of the Year is this. And then that probably means Asia's being, like, she's going to be in the MVP discussion, but Jewel Lloyd's probably going to take it. To add to that...
I don't have the liberty in the mix at all when it comes to single awards. And I think that adds to the whiteboard material for the liberties you rent store, eventually leading them to, to overending the aces. I think the odds get stacked against them for the reasons of like,
We seem to not get called out for this stuff. And that may add to the mix. You know, they're going to try and play the us against the world mentality. And, you know, whether or not people agree with us against the world, whenever it comes up in any league, it does work for a lot of teams. So I could see that happening here. But that's where I stand. Well, yeah.
I wish my MVP pick was more fun. Now, I just I went as simple as it's an even year, which means it's going to be Asia. Like, it's very hard for a player to win back to back MVP awards because of voter fatigue and because there are often two to three, like really deserving players. And so it kind of feels bad to be like, we're saying this.
We're saying this while the NBA is forced to keep giving the MVP to Nick Ljokic. Which they hate. They just can't. There's no other way around it. They will find a way to give it to Anthony Edwards next year when he's like 23 years old. Yeah. Because they're like, I'm so tired of giving it to the guy with a personality that we cannot market. So...
No, that's not me saying that. That's me impersonating NBA media people. She's obviously got the best odds of winning it because she's best player, best team by a lot of accounts. Obviously, Stewie is going to be up there as well. They've been alternating MVPs for the last three years. So it sort of feels like... I don't know. If the Aces are once again the team that we know them to be, it's going to be like, look, I know she's already won too, but like...
Yeah. She could have won it last year. Yeah. So I'll say that. I can see that. I can see that being a top three though of, of Asia Bree. And even if they're not third in the standings, I think Jewel could be up there. I think Alyssa Thomas is a good pick to be up there. If Connecticut is performing again, there was sort of a, a weird push. I won't call it weird. I don't think it was undeserved, but there was a push last year to get Kelsey plum in the discussion.
And some numbers to back it up. There's just no way that you can give an MVP to...
a Vegas ace that isn't Asia unless Wilson gets injured for a good chunk of the season and they keep winning. Yeah. But like, that was kind of a fun, I don't know if you remember that or not, but that was kind of fun. There was also talk of, uh, like both Arike Gubali and Satu Sabli were playing really good basketball. And it was like, we like, if you could award a co MVP, you should be like, look like my wild, my wild, wild card MVP pick would be Satu Sabli. I just, she seems prime. Yeah.
She seems primed to start hitting that elite level. She could make that leap. Yeah, I could easily see that. I'll say this too about Asia.
If I know anything about the Aces, it's that they do pay attention to the scuttlebutt and the falderal talked about online. And they love to use that as motivation when you have people like Chelsea Gray and Kelsey Plum and those types of personalities. I think they're the types of players that love to use that to fire people up and get them going. I think Becky Hammond is kind of into that too. We've heard that with how she's brought things up in pressers.
And I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of people on the team are sitting down and looking at Asia's list this year of accomplishments and saying this year is
you're going to be the most marketable player by far. You've been, but it has to be, it's going to be undeniable now. I don't know if you're sick of it, but we're sick of people saying you're not marketable. And so we're going to make that clear. And so I could see that becoming a hellacious MVP run. The rookie of the year is not really much of a discussion, which is too bad because it should be because it's such a stacked class, but there's just no way it's not going to be Clark.
Like it's just like, I think it would take unfortunate circumstances. Yeah. If you play this season 10 times in a row, nine and a half times, it's going to be Clark. I think, I think the only way I will say the only non injury related way that I could see it not being Caitlin Clark is if Cameron Brink puts up like defensive player of the year type performances every night,
and the Sparks win a ton of games and the Fever... Like, Clark does her thing, but the Fever don't win very many games. I can see the surge of support for like, you know, we love Kaitlyn Clark, but like Cameron Brink is like one of the best defensive players in the league and the Sparks are winning. That's the only scenario that makes sense to me that could lead to Clark not winning it. Clark's the only rookie right now where I think the success of her team...
going to be indicative in whether or not she's rookie of the year. And what I mean by that is a
Rookie of the Year is an interesting one because there are always years where it's the best player on a team that's not very good. But some years it is, oh, here's a rookie that was a very key piece in the team actually doing well. And I feel like if you want to give it to Angel Reese, you have to expect to see this guy do especially well. Yeah. If you want Brink, like the Sparks have to win a lot for Brink to be a part of that mix or Rekia Jackson to be in that mix. And I feel like if Clark does...
base level what she's expected to do, regardless of where the fever... I think if the fever were like a 5-win team at the very bottom of the standings, that's one thing. But I mean...
They were a lottery pick team last year, and Aaliyah Boston ran away with the MVP. So it would take a whole lot, and it would take a lot of unfortunate stuff probably for it to not happen. That's just the truth of it. I wish that was more of a discussion because there are a lot of players that are like, I could see this, I could see that. If you take Kaitlyn Clark off the board entirely, if you're like, we're disqualifying her from qualifying for the Rejuvenator Award, then it becomes...
a free-for-all between Brink and not Cardozo because she's hurt, but Ricky Jackson probably in there. Ainsley Reese certainly a frontrunner there. I think on all of the Vegas odds sportsbook stuff that I looked at, Nika Mule's not even on the board. Mm-hmm.
And that's like, that feels like to get on the board, you just have to be like plus 2,500. Like it doesn't take much. So you just have to be like a first round pick to be on the board. She's not even on the board. And to be clear, a 14th pick has one rookie of the year before in this league. So you never know, but because Caitlin Clark is on the board, that's who it's going to be. And I have no problem with that. That's who it's going to be. Um, yeah.
What's next? Oh, defensive player of the year. You picked Alyssa Thomas. I think that's probably the move. I think she is someone that should be in the MVP discussion.
It's kind of unfortunate that so often the MVP discussion is dictated by like, well, this is sort of New York season and this is sort of Las Vegas' season. Because Connecticut gets perpetually ignored, even though they've probably been the longest running contender of any franchise in the league. And I think Alyssa Thomas is like, if you... You're not putting together a dynasty team, but if you got to like...
If you wipe the slate clean and all the players were in a pool and you're like, all right, we're going to pick rosters for... You have to put together a championship team for 2024. And you have the third pick. You're probably picking Jewel Lloyd or Alyssa Thomas because Stewie and Asia are going to be off the board. Yeah.
That's that's I've looked at MVP more that way than like who's just like who just seems like an MVP this year. Like that's that's all I test. I think that's stupid. So she she's not I don't think she's a cut below those other two players. I think Asia, Stewie, Alyssa, Thomas all deserve to kind of sit at the same cafeteria table and just talk about what it's like to be superstars of the league.
And because voters are human and they reason this way sometimes, I think it's going to be
all right, we're going to give the MVP to Asia or Stewie or whoever, but we need to give Thomas something. She deserves something for this season. And I think defensive player of the year is like exactly where people are going to slot her in and just be like, that's, we can absolutely justify giving her that award. So that makes a lot of sense to me. And then did you, did you mention coach? Yes. I have Becky. Becky. You have Becky. Okay. Yeah. Uh, it's probably the right, it's probably the right pick.
I would I've tried to dare to be different on a lot of my predictions lately. And for like the last year, that hasn't worked out for me. So sometimes it's like, OK, to go just like right down the middle. I would if man, you've got me on this track where if this if the storm jump up to number three, it should it should be Seattle. Right. Like if you coach a team to 20 more wins than the previous season. Yeah.
Yeah. Like New York and Vegas, like those teams don't have the opportunity to improve by that much, but that's such a leap. I just don't, I just don't know if that's actually what's going to happen, but I, I could see it. I Dallas is another good pick for just like, Oh, like maybe they're going to want to look at it. I I'm going to go with Becky because I'm picking New York as my, as my champ. I'm going to pick Becky for Becky and Asia are going to be my, my individual one. Yeah.
There you go. Well, there you have it. Thanks for listening as I talk my way through that. Yeah. It's worth it. Figure out where I fell on that. Well, hey. Okay. It did end up being like an hour 15 as an episode, which for us, that's still not bad. Consider it. Make no mistake.
I'm very excited for Jason and Kyle to hear these and to get back to us with their takes because I'm sure they have teams that we haven't even talked about up there and down at the bottom. So we will look for that as well. But I have nothing else. That's all the news we plan on covering today. You guys know the plugs and where to find the show. Please do tell your friends about the show at this time of year, especially we want more people just as an introduction to the league and to get to know us. This is a fun time to get in on the pod. So
Five star review. Tell your friends. Let everybody know. Really cool. Steve, anything to add? The PWHL playoffs are happening like right now. So get on YouTube and be part of that whole deal.
And check it out. It's already kicked off. We're in the opening semis piece right now. Let's see who takes home the Walter Cup, the inaugural one. So check that out on YouTube because it's really good. If you've missed all of the PWHO season, it's still time to get on board. But it's been extremely fun. Like very, very fun. Worth your time.
Thank you for that. Do do that. We all just actually it wasn't hockey, but we all just kind of I can't believe we didn't talk about this. I guess it was a week ago, but Kyle and Steve and I and Kyle's daughter, Colin, we all kind of women's soccer game not too long ago because the Royals are back in town. So nice. It was wonderful. Even though even though the Royals lost, it was really nice. A little cold.
All right. That wraps this episode up. Thank you all for listening. Thank you, Jason, for editing for WNBA Nation. I am Logan Jones. And I'm Steve Schwartzman. And we'll catch you next time.