CalMatters Investigates Why Dangerous California Drivers Are Still Behind the Wheel
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From KQED. From KQED in San Francisco, I'm Leslie McClurg in for Mina Kim. In October 2023, a speeding driver with a valid California license crossed into oncoming traffic and killed three women.

The driver had a long history of risky driving, including fleeing police, causing a collision and a dozen speeding tickets. A new CalMatters investigation reveals how California's DMV has a pattern of allowing deadly drivers to keep their licenses. When should someone lose their right to drive? That's next on Forum after this news. Welcome to Forum. I'm Leslie McClurg. I'm in today for Mina Kim.

When I was 16, I lost a classmate to a drunk driver. It happened on a freeway in the middle of the day. So when I read the new CalMatters investigation about how California lets these deadly drivers, even those with multiple DUIs or reckless driving charges, keep their licenses, I was pretty struck. I can't believe you can get back on the road if you've killed someone.

The name of the CalMatters piece is apt, License to Kill. And we have the author, Robert Lewis, in studio today. He is an investigative reporter for CalMatters and obviously co-author of License to Kill. Let's start right where you started the article. Tell us the story of Ivan Dimov. So Mr. Dimov had six DUI convictions within California,

It did not keep him off the road. He was convicted in 2013 of reckless driving in Washington State, fleeing police while his passenger was allegedly dumping heroin out the window. Again, that didn't keep him off the road. In 2017, the California DMV reissued him a driver's license. And the next year on Christmas Eve, he sped through midtown Sacramento, speeds of 80 miles an hour plus.

and T-boned the car of a young man who was heading home to feed his cat before going to visit his mom for the Christmas holiday. That's quite a run. There's a statistic in your article, 40% of the drivers who have been charged with killing someone since 2019, since your investigation, the years you looked at, have a valid license today.

What kind of crashes are we talking about? So these were all vehicular manslaughter or homicide cases. So these weren't just...

traffic collisions, there was some finding on the part of law enforcement that there was sort of a violation of the law, some sort of reckless, dangerous behavior. Certainly, some of them were called misdemeanors. So it might just be your sort of run-of-the-mill negligence where you get a text message and don't see that there's a pedestrian. Many of them were these sort of

shocking displays of dangerous behavior, you know, driving 100 miles an hour and running a stop sign, weaving in and out of traffic.

driving extremely drunk or on drugs and killing someone. And very often these individuals are able to stay on the road or get back on the road even after they are convicted of vehicular manslaughter. And I assume those charges are felonies? It depends. So there is a misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter charge.

that some of these individuals can be charged with and convicted of. Interestingly enough, there is no requirement to suspend someone's license when they're convicted of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter. So I actually found about 200 drivers who the DMV knows were convicted of manslaughter, misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter, but for whom there is no evidence on their driving record that the DMV did anything.

So they drove, they killed someone, they were actually convicted of killing someone, and they never even had their license suspended. I assume they served some time. They did some something, right? Well, not necessarily. I mean, sometimes these individuals just get probation. So they get off with some sort of, you know, they have to check in, they have to meet certain requirements. You know, certainly some of those individuals did get some jail time, might have spent weeks or months behind bars.

But then they were presumably out. Okay. Another statistic in your article that really highlights that these drivers are not learning their lessons. You found that nearly 400 got a ticket or were in another crash or both. So a ticket and a crash after these deadly collisions. How and why are they allowed back on the road?

Well, one of the big questions I had was, um, you know, after you're involved in a fatal crash, like, is that actually making you safer? Right? Like, cause one of the ideas was, well, you know, it doesn't matter that we're giving these drivers their licenses back. I mean, what if suddenly they're, you know, completely reformed and changed by the harrowing, tragic experience? Um, and I was rather shocked to see a very large number, uh,

were cited for, again, speeding, running red lights, hit and run, later DUIs, and/or there was evidence on their record that they'd been in another collision. The DMV, what they basically say to me is that there is no permanent revocation. There's nothing that allows them to permanently revoke an individual's license.

If you're convicted of felony vehicular manslaughter in California, it is an automatic three-year loss of driving privileges. But what you regularly see is the three years ends and they immediately get their license back. And as I indicated before, you could be convicted of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter and have absolutely nothing done to you and you just stay on the road. Let's talk about another one of these cases. Tell us the story of Dominic Lopez Toney.

So, Dominic was a 29-year-old young man who was on his way to becoming a doctor. He was almost done with his rotations. He was just about to start his surgical rotations at a San Joaquin hospital, and he was driving his motorcycle when a semi-truck driver made what turned out to be a very dangerous U-turn on this road and struck him, and he died.

That driver, it was later revealed, had been arrested years earlier for a DUI. He had been ticketed. He'd been in another collision, I think, for which he was deemed at fault in maybe 2013. He had been ticketed for making an unsafe turn. And actually several months after the fatal crash, he was in another collision for which he was deemed most at fault.

And he was ultimately convicted of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter. And there is no evidence looking at his driving record that the DMV ever did anything. He has a valid commercial driver's license from the state of California. And his mother has become something of a truck safety advocate at this point. And I sort of showed her his record. And she was, I mean, she was speechless. She just didn't understand how

her son could be dead and this guy could still be driving a truck. Let's hear a cut from her. You visited her in Castro Valley. This is Nora. So it was about 1230 a.m. the following Sunday morning and I was sleeping. My partner and I were sleeping and he woke up and we have a window up here and he looked out and he said, Nora, it's the coroner. She gave me a bag and it had some of his blood. Backpack.

phone was destroyed. His laptop was destroyed. He had a burrito and it was smashed. That, I'm guessing, was his dinner. It was, I'm sure, a shrimp burrito. Wow. Let's talk about some of the nuts and bolts of this investigation. How did you do it? What did you cover? How did you get the records?

So it was very difficult getting data. Early on, I knew I wanted to do a story looking at drivers, in part because the research in this area seems really thin and certainly not much current. I tried to get data from the DMV and for a variety of reasons was unable to do so, not the least of which is they apparently have a

database that dates back to the 1970s, built in part on programming language that dates back to the 1950s. So I needed to find a sort of a body of cases of so I could begin just even look at like, who are these drivers? What happens to them? And so what I ended up doing was putting in requests to all 58 county district attorney's offices for lists of

vehicular manslaughter and homicide cases, ended up compiling effectively a database of about 3,600 cases. And now in California, we don't have a centralized court case management system. So

I enlisted a couple of colleagues and we basically spent the year going all around the state pulling these case files, thousands of case files, looking through tens of thousands of pages of records to build out a picture of who are these individuals who are causing these fatal crashes, what was their record on the road beforehand.

And then using the information I was able to sort of glean from these files, I was able to go to the DMV and request their DMV driving records, which are not comprehensive because things fall off your record. But it was able to at least show me whether they'd been in other collisions or had other tickets more recently and also what their current license status is. As you dug into this, were you shocked by what you found and that our system allows this?

Completely. I mean, this was not the story I fully intended or thought I would be finding and telling. And right away, the first county I looked at was Sacramento. And actually, Ivan Demov was one of the first cases I looked at. And I just – I had this moment where, you know, I think like most readers, like most listeners, like average citizens, I looked and said, wait, you can –

you can have six DUIs and still have a license? That's a thing? And then when I started requesting some of these DMV records and seeing like, wait a minute, this person was convicted. They have a valid license? And so I think routinely I was sort of struck by these cases. And I think on some level felt the outrage of what I've heard from a lot of readers since the piece initially published.

A listener on Discord writes, I worked in the San Mateo pretrial unit, and it was very common for repeat DUI offenders to have minimal consequences. Six, seven DUIs, and they still had a driver's license. Residents need to call and let their displeasure be known to legislators. Steve on Discord writes, anybody can have an accident. Repeats should automatically get much higher level of scrutiny and not be approved by default. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

Was there anything similar, a thread that kind of wound through these characters? Was there anything similar about the people that caused these accidents? Yeah, I mean, that was one of the interesting things is that it really spans demographics. It spans the state. I mean, you know, there were...

individuals who clearly were making a single bad decision that led to someone dying. There were people that had been struggling for years with addiction. There were people that there were chronic speeders. I mean, that was definitely something I saw time and again was reckless behavior behind the wheel for extended periods of time.

But, you know, I found there was a farm owner and there were farm workers. You know, there were I found off duty police officers and I found people who were referred to in the documents as career criminals. You know, these were cases up in, you know, timber country or, you know, near the Oregon border and, you know, down near the Mexico border. So this is a statewide issue that affects everybody.

We're talking about a new CalMatters investigation by Robert Lewis, who is in studio with me. He's the investigative reporter who just wrote License to Kill. We'll be right back after this break. Stay with us. Support for KQED podcasts come from Berkeley Rep, presenting Aves, an intriguing new play about memory, forgiveness, and unexpected transformation.

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You're listening to Forum. I'm Leslie McClurg. I'm in today for Mina Kim. And we are talking about a new CalMatters investigation titled License to Kill. And it's about how the California DMV handles very, very dangerous drivers. We are joined by Robert Lewis. He is the investigative reporter of this piece. And Leah Shaham. She is executive director of the Vision Zero Network. That's a nonprofit promoting safe streets. Welcome, Leah.

I want to start with you, Leah, on this. From your perspective, you're a road safety expert. Why are these dangerous drivers still on the road? Why is it so hard to revoke a license? Yeah, this story is heartbreaking. I want to say thanks to Robert and CalMatters for covering it. It's not surprising, though. I would say the problems that this investigation highlight are part of an ongoing shocking pattern we see around the country and definitely in California, where drivers

We're normalizing traffic violence and driving is too often seen as a right versus a privilege. And we're too often prioritizing speed and convenience or the feeling of convenience over safety. So sadly, this doesn't surprise me, yet it's incredibly heartbreaking. Well, we'd love to hear from listeners. When do you think someone should lose the right to drive?

Maybe have you, maybe a loved one, been involved in a car crash? Was there justice? What did it look like? Email your comments, your questions to forum at kqed.org, or you can find us on all the social platforms, Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, Discord. We're at KQED Forum. Or jump on the phone. I'd love to hear your voices. Call us at 866-733-6786. Again, that's 866-733-6786.

Robert, we talked a little bit. You mentioned that convictions kind of fall off your record. How long are they on there? A lot of the cases that you quoted, you know, were really scot-free way sooner than I thought they should be. Yeah, it depends a little bit on the severity and the nature of it. So when you look at a driving record, for most drivers, non-commercial drivers, when you get a speeding ticket, it falls off your record after three years.

A DUI is a 10-year period of time. There's some other things that stay on. I think it's either for five or seven years if they're a higher point count. I think there's also a different way that things fall off your record, which is the primary system we have in California to identify people.

dangerous, reckless drivers and do something about them is a point system, right? Like most states have this, and I think most listeners probably know you get a speeding ticket, you get a point on your license. But the way it's set up is it really catches clusters of reckless behavior as opposed to long-term patterns. And so, you know, to get your license suspended, you need four points in a year, six points in two years, eight points in a three-year period of time.

Well, I had a driver that I found who had like two red light tickets, two speeding tickets, two collisions in a five-year period of time, but everything was spaced out just enough that nothing was done. He had a valid license when he then drove 100 miles an hour through a stop sign and killed a man on his way to work. How many points do you get for vehicular manslaughter? You get two points. Two points? Yes. Wow.

I have a listener here who writes, for the vast majority of Californians and the state's economy, driving is a necessity. Leah, how do you respond to someone?

It's a very good point. I think so many people live in communities where they don't have good options to driving. They may need to get to work, get their kids to school, etc. There are ways to address that. You know, I would certainly say we need to be investing more in transit. But in that meantime, there's a bill actually moving through the California Assembly right now that

that would basically allow the use of a new technology or relatively new to the US technology called intelligent speed assistance. And basically, this could be used to help rein in super speeders or repeat dangerous drivers. And the idea is just like a repeat drunk driver may get required to use alcohol interlock and interlock system on their car.

This could actually be a technology that could be added to the car of that super speeder, that repeat offender, so that they cannot drive over the limit or a dangerous limit. And I'm really happy to report just in the past month, three states have passed these bills, similar types of bills, Virginia, Washington, and Georgia.

And now California is considering a bill. It's called Assembly Bill 981 that would allow this intelligent speed assistance to rein in very high-end drivers. And when I say that high-end dangerous drivers, people going 100 miles per hour or more over the speed limit. But at least it's a tool to say, OK, you may need your vehicle to get to work. We don't want to get in the way of that.

But it is a right, or it is a privilege, I should say, not a right. So you're going to need to drive safely. Let's go to the phones. Katie in San Francisco, you're on the air.

Hi there. I just wanted to call in. This is a relevant program to me. I was about 30 years ago, I was struck by a driver while I was a pedestrian on a walk sign in North Beach. And she was turning left at a light and just plowed right into my group of four. And I was the one closest to her car. So I got struck and I was injured, but not, you know, injured.

no long-term consequences. I was injured for about a year. But when we went straight to the police department and tried to get them to pursue her because she took off, they knew who she was and she worked at a nearby restaurant, but they wouldn't follow her home and try to get some justice. So we pursued it with the district attorney and it ended up never going anywhere. But we did learn that she was a repeat offender and she had hit four people previously in the

person before me had had their leg broken. So it was frustrating that it never got taken any further than that. So I'm glad to hear, I'm glad to see some attention given to this matter because I think it's a really important issue. So thank you for the program. Katie, I'm so glad you're okay. And thank you so much for sharing your story. Leah, how have the rates for pedestrian fatalities changed over the years? Is it getting worse?

It is getting so much worse. I'm sad to report that nationally we have dramatically increased the number of people dying while walking specifically. It's been about a 48% increase, so nearly 50% increase of pedestrian deaths nationally in the last 10 years. So just to put that a little bit in comparison, traffic deaths unfortunately have been going up a little bit across the nation, but

People in the cars, it's getting safer, relatively speaking. It's safer inside cars. You now have airbags. You have seatbelts. Vehicles are getting bigger, making it much safer inside. Good for the drivers. Meanwhile, nearly 50% more people are dying outside the cars. Yeah. I think it's a lot of several reasons. One, we know cars are getting a lot bigger. Absolutely.

heavier, more dangerous, a lot more blind spots. What you see now is that most passenger vehicles being purchased, like new passenger vehicles being purchased, are big SUVs or these light trucks. And they literally are dramatically more dangerous when they're hitting someone.

We also see speeds going up. Speed overall is the biggest killer. We know that, you know, when a crash happens, it matters most about how big that vehicle is and how fast that vehicle is going. And it's just no, you know, no competition between that and the human body out there walking. Let's go back to the phones. Barbara in San Jose, you're on the air. Thank you. I want to know how you keep people with suspended licenses off the road.

Yeah, it's a great question. I would say, you know, we found many, many cases, to your point, which I understand is a question, who had been driving on a suspended license for years and years, and very little was done to them. I mean, I had a case out of Sacramento where a guy had his license suspended in 2011 following a DUI incident.

He in it's never been lifted that 2011 suspension is still technically in place. He got another DUI. He then proceeded to get I believe it was four or five tickets. Every one of those tickets, which could have been treated as a as a crime, as a misdemeanor that could have led to some some jail time, was instead direct filed with the traffic court.

and he faced little more than fines. Now, obviously, penalizing people driving on suspended licenses could lead to all sorts of unintended consequences, but the fact is there are many individuals who just will not get off the road, and when they're caught driving on a suspended license, very often very little is happening to them, and then all too often they're going on to kill.

Let's stay with the phones. Ariel in Oakland, you're on the air.

Hi, thanks for this conversation. I just wanted to come forward as actually a reformed bad driver. You know, someone who, like you were mentioning earlier, had like two red light tickets, two accidents, two speeding tickets, but just, you know, were spaced out enough that I didn't get any sort of, you know, suspension, but was threatened by it and was very, you know, scared and kind of got my act together and, you know, was more a victim of the current distracted driving culture than anything.

But I think it begs the point that if someone like me is kind of just absent-minded, really need to get their act together, can also fall into this sort of pool of drivers, then there's an issue and there needs to be some sort of

you know, parsing out of this. And, you know, I'm not saying that I didn't deserve consequences. I, you know, probably should have taken a, you know, a driving course and done something like there should have been some sort of consequence for me. Maybe not as far as losing my license, but, you know, probation or something like that. And I just wonder if any of our state elected officials are looking at this, you know, just to hear that people can kill people and get back on the road. I mean, that's my biggest fear. And that's actually why I, I,

started to get my act together was because I said, if you don't stop this, you're going to kill someone. And then you're going to have to live with that. Even if something doesn't happen to you, you know, you don't get thrown in jail because it's an accident. You're going to have to live with that person's life on your shoulders. And so I just, I wonder, you know, to the guests, if there's anything that's being done, you know, I'll certainly be reaching out to my elected officials. But I'm just curious about that. Thank you, Ariel. And good job with your converting. Leo, what do you think?

First, thank you, Ariel, for sharing that. That really means a lot. You know, first, I would say this assembly bill being led by Assemblyman Gibson from Southern California would, again, require – not require, but allow for speed – intelligent speed assistance in people's cars who have been convicted of being super speeders and repeat dangerous drivers. So that's one tool. It's a small tool, but it really gets at that kind of worst of the worst. I would say –

You know, we would love to see the state leaders, including the Department of Motor Vehicles, respond to this really stunning investigation and address these problems. You know, rather than kind of ducking their heads and saying, oh, we'll look into it, have a public hearing. Let people like Ariel and others come out, share their stories, victims, folks like Families for Safe Streets who are

are victims and loved ones who've lost people in their lives. Let them come out and share their stories. Let's humanize this. And I think like the article does, this is not just some wonky policy matter that needs to be handled in Sacramento. Every single one of us – and Leslie, I'm so sorry to hear about your loss with a friend. Every single person I bet listening to this broadcast right now knows someone, has some experience with a traffic crash, perhaps even losing someone.

And I want to pause and say, you know, you heard me use the word crash there, not accident. And if there's one thing maybe you take away from this is these are not simply accidents in a freak, you know, could have never prevented it sort of way. What we see, and Robert's reporting shows this, there are patterns. There are patterns of the types of people who are driving a certain way, the types of vehicles, frankly, the types of roads, the

the types of policy decisions and street designs that either encourage or discourage these tragedies. So these are not accidents. They are crashes we can address and can prevent. John on Blue Sky writes, I'm curious how these drivers still get insurance.

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, there are – well, first off, things fall off your record after a certain period of time and so then, therefore, are no longer considered for insurance rate purposes. There's also a program that's within the state that's effectively insurer of last resort, ensuring that, you know, basically anybody can find a way to get insurance if they can ultimately afford it. So –

Clearly, insurance alone is not enough to keep a lot of these individuals off. And certainly, I would also say I saw plenty of these individuals who would have suspensions at some point in their driving record because of a loss of insurance. But very often, they were able to, at a later date, get that insurance and get that suspension lifted. Let's go back to the phones. Steve in San Rafael, you're on the air.

Hi. My daughter was killed in 2009 by a box truck driver, and so I've been working ever since then on different safety issues, and I wanted to comment specifically on AB 981, which what I particularly like about a bill that simply requires these repeat offenders to

to have a device in their car so they can't speed and do more damage. But I like it because it's non-punitive in the sense that if you suspend driver's licenses, people have to drive to get places, so they drive on a suspended license and often drive more dangerously. Right.

It doesn't really help, but SB 981 is a really much better solution. Steve, I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter. Leah, do you want to talk about that bill? Is there any more you want to say there? You know, I'll just share an important national statistic that 75% of drivers with suspended licenses continue to drive.

And I think speaking to Steve's point, whether that be, you know, poor decision making or a situation in which, yeah, you're living in an environment that doesn't offer you good alternatives. You really do need to drive to get to your job 25 minutes away and there is not a transit option. So I really appreciate Steve making that point. You know, when we're looking to improve road safety, we really want to be careful to also not exacerbate other issues, right? Whether that be, you know,

increasing poverty rates or lack of access to jobs or healthy food, etc. But there's ways we can do this and win-win, right? We want everyone to be safe on the roads and we want people to be able to get to their jobs. So I think this bill is one piece.

But it's going to take a much bigger culture change. And I think our leaders in Sacramento, starting with the DMV leadership and frankly, the governor can step up and say, yeah, this isn't right. Thank you, CalMatters, for bringing this to our attention. Now let's put our heads together and do something about it. Yeah.

That's what you hope investigations can do, because Robert, I imagine you poured your heart and soul into this for a year. Noel on Discord writes, you would think in the DMV database there would be a system of flagging problem drivers. Maybe there's no communication between the DMV and police and highway patrol computer systems?

I mean, I do think communication is an issue. I mean, it's something that DMV hinted at at least to some extent when I talked to them, the degree to which they're getting records from the courts when there's a conviction, the degree to which they're being notified when there are collisions. But I would also say, you know, very often they do know information.

or they have in their system information pertaining to a driver. But for a variety of reasons, including the way the point system is structured, they often continue to allow these individuals to stay on the road. Do they acknowledge that there's a problem here that needs to be addressed?

They do not acknowledge there's a problem here. I mean, the message I got was we follow the law as it is written. And if lawmakers want to change the law, they can change the law.

Tater on Discord writes, I called 911 once while trying to escape a road raging truck driver who was following me and trying to drive me off the road. Luckily, I was able to exit the freeway. And when I talked to the responding California Highway Patrol officer, he said that the Bay Area is one of the worst areas for road rage related fatalities in the entire country. He said he deals with a death or a serious injury related to road rage almost every day.

Jacqueline writes, my uncle Billy was killed by a drunk driver who had his license suspended and his car compounded. His mother let him drive her car. Enablers help kill too. We are talking about a new CalMatters investigation titled License to Kill.

about how the California DMV handles these very, very dangerous drivers. We're joined by Robert Lewis. He's an investigative reporter for CalMatters and obviously an author of License to Kill. And Leah Shahem, she is executive director of the Vision Zero Network. That's a nonprofit that promotes safer streets. We'd love to hear from you. When should someone lose their driver's license? Have you, maybe a loved one, been in a car crash? What did justice look like? Maybe

Maybe how has a DUI impacted you or a loved one? We'd love to hear your stories. You can email your comments, your questions to forum at kqed.org or jump on the phone. Call us at 866-733-6786. Again, that's 866-733-6786. Stay with us. We'll be right back after this break.

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You're listening to Forum. I'm Leslie McClurg. I'm in today for Mina Kim. And we are talking about a CalMatters investigation titled License to Kill. It's about how the California DMV handles these very, very dangerous repeat offending drivers. Robert Lewis is with us. He is an investigative reporter for CalMatters. And Leah Shaham, she is executive director of the Vision Zero Network, a nonprofit promoting safe streets.

Robert, in your investigation, it states that more people are killed in cars than by guns. That's really remarkable. What are the statistics? Yeah, the number killed by guns, I'm a little rusty on these numbers, but I think it's around 3,800 a year. It's under 4,000. And during the

heart of the pandemic when the numbers peaked. We were looking at about 4,500 deaths a year. So around, you know, if you look over a longer period of time, about 4,000 people are dying on the roads of California every year. And to put that in context, it's as if over a 10-year period, every man, woman, and child in the city of Huntington Beach was killed, crippled, or maimed in a collision. So it's a lot of people.

How has your investigation changed how you walk down the street, how you ride your bike, how you drive your car? You know, on a very personal level, it's completely changed my behavior. I drive much slower. When I approach an intersection, I pause to make sure nobody's about to blow a red light or run through a stop sign. Not that I was ever aggressive, but I'm definitely less aggressive, more likely to let

let people in because I know I could be cut off. You know, I feel bad for my daughter who was lobbying to cross the street by herself around the time that I was starting to work on this. And, you know, she got a lot of lessons on pausing and looking both ways. You're like, no, hold my hand forever. Let's go back to the phones. Nadia in Marin County, you're on the air.

Hi. I was just calling about putting the mechanisms in cars that would cause people to slow down. I know it's for repeat offenders, but also I want to say that there have been many times that I've actually sped up to get out of a situation where I could see a car about to crash into me or to run to the side of the road. I wanted to speed up and get out of the way.

And it's worked for me. I've so far, thank God, knock wood, never been in a car accident. Nadia, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, what kind of devices, what's on tap, Leah, technology-wise, that might make these new cars that are much bigger potentially safer? Yeah, thanks for that point, Nadia. And I should mention the technology that I've referenced called intelligent speed assistance. It does have an override function.

So to speak, I don't know if it's literally a button, but an override tool where if you're in that very rare occurrence, and let's be honest, this has not happened constantly, but where you need to zoom up to avoid something, say on the highway, that's possible. So just to say this is, you know, very well tested technology. It's used all over the world, especially in Europe.

We're way behind in the US. You know, we consider ourselves, especially here in California, let's be honest, you know, these tech pros, these geniuses. Yet, we are in the dark ages when it comes to keeping records and having systems that speak to each other, like Robert's article shows. You know, even our police can't access, you know, what's in the DMV records, etc., etc. So we

We're in the dark ages there. We're also in the dark ages in terms of vehicle technology. They're doing things, again, in places like Europe and other places that help keep people safe. We're very slow, for instance, to adopt things like speed safety cameras. Those have just been allowed and are now being piloted in a few cities, including San Francisco here in California. But we've been really resistant to this kind of change, I think partly because we

There's this fierce holding of, it's my right to drive my big car very, very fast. Well, it's not actually. You have a responsibility to be safe. And that's what needs to change. And again, the DMV has an opportunity to be a leader here.

You know, to mention that Robert mentioned some stats, traffic crashes are the leading, sorry, second, traffic crashes are the second leading cause of death in California for people 45 and under. So if you've got somebody in your life you love, 45 or under, really, really be concerned about that. Ernst writes, Mexico City, once famous for insane driving, has better pedestrian protections than San Francisco does. Leah, is there somewhere in the world that you would point to that is a model we should be following? Yeah.

Yeah, I'm glad they mentioned the Mexico City example because I've had the chance to follow that. They really have, even though it's a big city, you know, it's not a rich country compared to the U.S., but they've really invested in proven strategies like lowering speed limits, redesigning roads. And when I say that, especially where you have a mix of people driving and walking and biking and waiting for transit, you know, we know in the end it is speed that kills and we know that we can design systems differently. Yeah.

In terms of places I'd look, you know, I'm going to look a little closer to home, Fremont, California. I want to give credit right here in the Bay Area. Fremont has reduced their traffic deaths by about 40% in the last five or six years because they're leaning into this concept of Vision Zero and in this concept of safety over speed. They're not restricting people from driving, but they're designing the roads and they're lowering speed limits, especially around school areas and senior centers so that you're encouraged to

to drive at a slower pace and a safer pace. So it's possible right here in the U.S. Let's go back to the phones. Rene and Laverne, you're on the air. Hello? You're on the air. Oh, hi. Yes, my son died in a car accident in 2018, and he didn't have any infractions. He just, you know, he had gasoline in his veins, and he loved to drive his car really fast and had it all high-performance.

And my question is, we found out after he passed that he posted a lot of the stuff online and a lot of kids do. And is there anything, you know, I don't want to be big brother, but is there anything that can be done to see these actions like, you know, like street takeovers and such? But if we would have, I mean, we talked to him from time to time. We kind of knew, but we didn't know the extent of his actions.

I mean, really dangerous driving. He drove fast all the time and unfortunately it caught up to him. I'm so sorry, Renee, to hear that. Leah, any thoughts there?

I'm so sorry to hear that. You know, we do hear things like street racing and kind of continuous reckless behavior like that is especially a problem in California here more than some other states. And part of what this bill, Assembly Bill 981, would do is allow for these intelligent speed assistance vehicles on people that were caught for that kind of reckless driving. So it's not just speeding, but other kinds of kind of...

known problematic repeat driving behavior like that. So maybe that's something that could help in the future.

Rick, a listener writes, I don't know why we still allow dangerous drivers to be on the road behind the wheel here in the state of California. Waymos, with their autonomous technology, should be the end all and be all to human driving. Leah, where are we at in terms of, you know, potentially these automatic cars taking over the roads? Great, great question. You know, I would say it's encouraging to see what kind of technology is available and how it works.

And if this technology that's available, say, in Waymos and autonomous vehicles, we know it exists. Why can't we be incorporating that into regular vehicles also? You know, even as we shift to AV to some extent, we're going to have this transition period, right? Of course, not everyone's going to be using an AV right away. So in your regular car, you know, I would really be looking to the car industry, the vehicle manufacturers to say, why aren't you incorporating these safety features into every single new vehicle? Right.

Leslie writes, are there any statistics that show the most common time of day or night for drunk driver accidents? There is a current call to extend bar closings statewide from 2 a.m. to 4 a.m. What would this mean for dangerous drivers?

First off, I'd say that's absolutely knowable. There's a lot of data out there that the state maintains, CHP maintains. And there's a great research center out of UC Berkeley that crunches a lot of these numbers. I don't actually know the statistics of when it comes to DUIs and time of day.

A listener on Discord writes, it's interesting how so many people are concerned with the hardship of a suspended license would cause, but the victims are brushed aside. The police departments are constrained because of the lenient California laws. Misdemeanors are eight hours of paperwork for someone who will be released, cited, placed on court probation and allowed to do it again with minimal consequences. California voters wanted this. So now we got what we voted for.

Let's go back to the phones. Brett in Berkeley, you're on the air. Hi. Yeah, I just wanted to comment that I've noticed since the pandemic that the police have been more scarce in general, you know, in roads, even highways.

And they seem to have like kind of a hands-off policy or something. They hardly stop people for any minor or anything. I noticed, Robert, you're nodding here. Well, looking at the enforcement figures, you know, the number of traffic infractions filed in California Superior Courts is

was down, I think it was 50% in like 2022 when we had the most fatalities as compared to a decade earlier. The number of traffic misdemeanors was down like two thirds. It was more than 60%. So, you know, it is very clear if you plot them on a graph that this drastic decline in stops and traffic

traffic tickets and enforcement has coincided with an increase in fatalities. Now, is that causation? I mean, I think there's far smarter people than me that are studying that. As a matter of fact, I know some folks at UC Berkeley are looking into that. There's some questions about whether or not the increase in fatalities, you know, do they perfectly line up or not? But yes, there has been much less enforcement of traffic laws in recent years, and there have been a lot of people dying on the roads.

Rich writes, my nephew was convicted of a felony for his third DUI and after serving jail time, he was placed on probation, but his probation officer in Marin County never enforced mandatory meetings or a car alcohol detector.

Christopher writes, do we think we could help reduce these kinds of incidents by making the process of getting a driver's license more than a quick written test and a 15-minute drive test? Leah, would that change anything? Absolutely. I mean, I think it's a piece of the puzzle. We can all maybe remember back to when you were, what, 16, taking that driver's test. You may not have...

Needed to think about that again, really. So and think how much has changed on our roads from street design to the types of vehicles. So I think every state in the country is far behind and really should be modernizing its standards for who can drive and testing them.

You're listening to Forum. I'm Leslie McClurg. I'm in for Mina Kim. Excuse me, my voice there. We are talking about a new CalMatters investigation called License to Kill. Robert Lewis is in house with us. He's the investigative reporter on that. And Leah Shahem is the executive director of Vision Zero Network. That's a nonprofit promoting safer streets. Let's go back to the phones. Rich in Napa, you're on the air.

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I bicycle quite a bit, and I ride with a bike club from time to time. And two people I know have been struck and seriously injured by cars while riding in bike lanes. But unfortunately, when CHP showed up,

And they were in the road. The ambulance came, took them away, and CHP interviewed the driver who said, oh, they swerved right in front of me. And that's really frustrating because I feel like there's not consequences. But my understanding in Sonoma County, there's a Vulnerable User Ordinance. And I'm not that familiar with it, but I believe it's only civil penalties. But I'm wondering if your guests have an opinion on Vulnerable User Ordinances. Sure.

Leah?

Again, this idea of an accident, not a crash and not something that could have been predicted and prevented. So I think it's very common. There are different vulnerable user laws and ordinances. I don't know that they're very well known or very well followed. I would say...

We're better served by investing in stronger street, different and better street design and policies like things like intelligent speed assistance, lower speed limits and more consequences when you go over those speed limits versus kind of just, hey, let's watch out for each other. I wish we were as good as that, but I think we need stronger consequences and rules in place here. Yeah.

Stephen writes, roads are designed for speed and efficiency for drivers, not for the safety of all road users, pedestrian, cyclist. The DMV was created to monetize driving and generate revenue for states. Leah? That's interesting. I haven't thought about that as much, to be honest. I'd love to hear what Robert thinks on that. But I certainly think DMV can be stepping up and should be stepping up in light of this investigation. Yeah.

Anything you want to add there? Well, I would just say, I mean, as much as obviously the piece is focused on dangerous drivers and how we grant the privilege to drive here in California, you know, many of these cases do also show the need for safety.

possible engineering solutions, right? Like, it's hard not to read these stories and wonder, you know, if we did something about speeding, if the design of certain roadways, which, you know, would come out in some of the filings where actually the defense would be arguing, hey, look how many deadly crashes were at this same spot.

where my client is accused of killing someone. It's not my client's fault. And it clearly shows that it's, you know, a lot of these are overlapping issues that we as a society could be addressing. If someone reads your work or is listening to today's show, what's the few things, one thing that you really want them to take away from this investigation?

That drivers with horrible, egregious records of dangerous behavior on the road are too often able to stay on the road where they kill. Many are able to stay on the road even after they kill, and some will kill again. And unless we do something as a state, this is just the way it is, and it will unfortunately be the way it will be.

And Leah, if someone is listening and they want to change that, they're listening to it and say, well, unless we do what? What can the individual person do to help make our streets safer?

Yeah, I think for the individual person, obviously, you want to be as safe as you can. And also be calling your mayor, your city council member, your state legislators and say, look, these are not just freak accidents. These are not uncontrollable and unimaginable. They're actually patterns of severe crashes. And some of the patterns that Robert's article points out, some of the patterns that we see of, for instance, injuries.

At night, serious crashes are much more likely at night. What can we do to improve street lighting? What can we do to provide more rides home for people that have been drinking? They don't have to get in the car if they have some number to call and get a ride home. There's so much we can be doing as a society and our leadership right now is dropping the ball and people are dying.

Is there any advice that you would have for pedestrians or cyclists so that they can be more protected in this environment with dangerous drivers?

I'd say, first of all, there's safety in numbers. The more of us that are out there walking and biking and doing so safely and responsibly, the more visible we are. And the roads, the public space out there, it's not just for driving. It's certainly not for driving as fast as possible. The roads out there are for letting people move around, walking, biking, driving, transit. So I think, you know,

Don't be scared to be out on the streets, but make sure that you're getting your voice heard and changing these systems so that there are more safe spaces and more consequences for people that are acting dangerously. Noelle on Discord writes, the normalization of car, quote, accidents starts with the language we use to describe them. Robert, what's next for you?

We're going to stay on this for at least the rest of this year and very likely into next year. We're looking at a number of things, including our DUI laws. We're looking at communication between the courts and the DMV. One thing we found was that there are many drivers convicted of vehicular manslaughter who have clean driving records. So something's missing there. So we're going to continue to tell these stories, and I would encourage listeners who are

Feel passionate, have stories to tell, to reach out to us, robert at calmatters.org. I highly recommend folks read the investigation License to Kill on CalMatters website. Robert Lewis is the investigative reporter and co-author there, and Leah Shaham is executive director of the Vision Zero Network. Thank you both, and thank you to all of our callers and those of you who wrote in fascinating comments and commentary. Everyone have a wonderful day. I'm Leslie McClurg. I'm in for Mina Kim.

Funds for the production of Forum are provided by the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, the Generosity Foundation, and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

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