How Do You Rate Newsom's Job Performance?
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From KQED in San Francisco, I'm Nina Kim. Coming up on Forum, California faces a $12 billion budget deficit, and Governor Gavin Newsom wants to close the gap in ways that are surprising some of his most liberal supporters. There are some adjustments for seniors.

for the undocked population that we are trying to right-size on the basis of the budgetary constraints. We look at proposed cuts to Medi-Cal and a payroll freeze for state workers, and hear why most Californians think Newsom's too focused on a future presidential run. Tell us how you rate the governor's performance. Forum is next. Welcome to Forum. I'm Nina Kim.

More than half of Californians think Governor Gavin Newsom is more focused on winning the presidency than governing the state, according to a UC Berkeley IGS poll this month.

The results come as Newsom proposes controversial health care cuts to close a projected $12 billion budget deficit and navigates a hostile Trump administration whose tariff impacts he blames, in part, for the budget shortfall. California is under assault. The United States of America, in many respects, is under assault because we have a president that's been reckless in terms of assaulting those growth engines.

has created a climate of deep uncertainty and certainly has California in his sights. We get your thoughts on how Newsom is leading California and take a closer look at his plans to close the budget gap with KQED's politics team. Correspondent Guy Marzarotti is here to start us off. Hi, Guy. Hey, good morning.

Good morning. So talk about the ways Newsom is proposing to address the budget shortfall. First, his cuts to Medi-Cal. What has he called for? Yeah, so he really has singled out Medi-Cal as a big place to cut and resolve this $12 billion shortfall. I think there's probably a lot of good reason for that on the policy front because this is a program, it's the second biggest program in the state budget, and it's growing really quickly.

health care costs have grown nationwide, prescription drug costs have grown nationwide. And then there's even some specific California factors. The state has opened up Medi-Cal enrollment to undocumented immigrants here, and there have been more enrollees than the state expected. So this is a program where the costs are really growing faster than a lot of state budget experts have expected. Newsom's own budget chief said it, you know, just since January, the governor put out his initial budget proposal.

budget plan in January. Just since then, projected Medi-Cal costs over three years have grown by $10 billion. So this is an area where the costs are really getting out of control. And so that's where Newsom is really focused. And he's doing so by rolling out proposals to cut Medi-Cal coverage

in the future for undocumented adults. Starting next year, he wants to freeze enrollment for undocumented adults. And then starting in 2027, add $100 premium for that same population. So this is where, you know, Newsom has really targeted the cuts in the state budget. I think as a result of the fact that, yeah, health care costs around the country are growing and it has really impacted the state's Medi-Cal program. Yeah. How's he looking at seniors, too?

You know, I think a big thing there is cuts to in-home supportive services, capping overtime for in-home supportive services at 50 hours a week. Another one I'll throw out too that I think has not got a ton of attention, but it's actually affecting states all over the country as they deal with their budgets, is Ozempic. Ozempic is the growing use of Ozempic for not just diabetes, but weight loss. And the way in which

programs like Medi-Cal have covered Ozempic, it's a really expensive drug. And I think that, you know, that has certainly added a lot of costs to state health care plans. I think, you know, one thing that Newsom and others are looking at is maybe just limiting the use to diabetes and not necessarily to weight loss. But I think that kind of circles back to your question about, you know, the focus on undocumented Californians for the cuts.

There's all these things that are driving health care costs. The population is getting older, these expensive drugs. But this is one area where Newsom can actually control the fact that California has expanded Medi-Cal access to people who are not documented. And that's why I think you see him kind of focusing that. You know, there's probably political reasons, too, but he's focusing on that area as he starts to try to make cutbacks to Medi-Cal.

So then how are the affected groups reacting to those proposed cuts? I know you spoke with some advocates for immigrants. Yeah, you know, there's obviously, you know, a lot of opposition, you know, immediately after Newsom releases plan, both from advocates, but also I think from Democrats in the legislature. And it'll be interesting to see kind of how

this plays out now as budget negotiations continue, because there certainly needs, you know, there needs to be some solving of this budget issue. It's not, $12 billion is not an amount that they can just be kind of papered over. And Newsom, I think importantly, has not decided to dip further into the state rainy day fund. He has laid out an initial $7 billion to go

to take from the rainy day fund, but he didn't expand that even as the state budget conditions have worsened. He's really looking, I think, at trying to make cuts over the long term because it's also, this is not a one-year budget issue. The projections going forward, both from Newsom's administration, but also like legislative analysts have said, this is,

This is going to get potentially worse. Like there's going to be ongoing budget issues in the state for years to come. And that's before you even talk about the impact of federal cuts and the ways in which those could really have a big impact on the state budget.

Well, let me invite listeners into the conversation. What do you think of the ways Newsom is tackling the budget deficit? How do you rate the job Newsom is doing right now? You can email forum at kqed.org, find us on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, or threads at KQED Forum. And you can call us at 866-733-6786. 866-733-6786.

So Guy, in January, the governor's budget plan projected a small surplus. We have heard him blame tariffs and market volatility for the shortfall. How true is that? What happened between January and May? A lot happened. I mean, I think a

pieces of that are true, right? Like the budget is really looking ahead at future years and figuring out how much revenue is going to come to the state. And the tariffs that the Trump administration rolled out certainly put a damper on that. I think it led to state budget analysts looking in future years and saying, look, there's going to be a greater chance of recession, greater chance of economic slowdown. And so we're just going to project a

future revenue coming into California in the coming years. Part of that is the state relies a lot on high income earners for tax revenue. So when the stock market goes down and goes up, especially when it goes down, the state takes a big hit when that happens. Now,

We saw the flip side of that just last year when Nvidia stock was soaring. That was all flowing into California through capital gains taxes. But as the economy potentially slows down, state budget projections are kind of moving in the same direction. And so you're seeing both a slowdown in that effect, but there's also the rise in costs, right? Again, the rise in costs, particularly of Medi-Cal that is moving kind of in junction with

kind of slower or slowed down revenue estimates that I think have led to, yeah, what looked in January like a pretty rosy budget picture, basically a balanced budget. Just a few months later, Newsom coming out and saying, no, actually, we have this $12 billion shortfall that we have to figure out.

Well, Steve on Discord writes, can we get a high level overview of the budget and the recent historical numbers? Which years were balanced? Deficit, surplus, and by how much money versus the entire state budget? Could or should we dip further into reserve funds? That $12 billion deficit looks like a scary number, but note it's on a much larger total budget. And we do have state reserve funds. Yeah, you know, that's it. On the what years did we end up with deficit or surplus?

the budget always gets balanced at the end, right? There's not like a federal budget that they can carry over a shortfall. But we have seen a lot of volatility just in Newsom's six years now as governor. We've seen enormous record levels of budget surpluses followed by really big deficits. Again, that's the volatility that comes with relying so much on high income earners. And so, yeah, I think we

We've seen both of that while Newsom has been governor. I should say Newsom has rolled out proposals to try to deal with that, kind of manage that, maybe soften those spikes going forward, most notably by exempting money put in a rainy day fund from state spending limits, which would let the state

just put more and more money into the rainy day fund. Um, but even in, in those cases, California system is really set up to be a volatile one. Yeah. Well, so what else should we know about how he's planning to close the budget gap, maybe smooth over some of the spikes, uh,

Like his moves on cap and trade, for example. What's that about? Yeah. So cap and trade is the state's kind of landmark environmental program that's set to expire in 2030. Basically, the short of it, the state puts a cap on greenhouse gas emissions,

and then allows companies to pollute under that cap. And the way it does that is it issues allowances, which are basically like permission slips to pollute. Companies can bid on those, and that then raises money for the state. So I think

Cap-and-trade becomes even more important in these kind of perilous budget times because it does bring in a lot of money, billions of dollars, $3 to $4 billion every year in these auctions for pollution allowances. And so suddenly that's this new revenue stream or existing revenue stream that could potentially grow that I think becomes even more valuable. So what Newsom has said is he really has two priorities for that revenue stream.

So CAL FIRE, the state's firefighting force, and then High Speed Rail, which...

already gets most. It's the top recipient of cap and trade money right now. And Newsom wants to keep that going. He's basically doubling down on high speed rail in this budget. He wants a billion dollars at least every year to go from these cap and trade auctions to fund high speed rail. And that could really become a source of contention within the legislature. Because again, in a time where there's limited money to go around, you have this

billions and billions of dollars coming in from the auction, are legislators really going to go along with continuing to have high speed rail be the biggest beneficiary of that? Or, you know, I think there's you're hearing a lot from from folks in the Senate Assembly. If we have this program to limit carbon pollution, which, you know, does add cost to things like gas prices, should Californians kind of see the benefit of that now through whether, you know, direct money to help with electricity costs or

home hardening, home insurance, or, you know, should it go to a high speed rail system that's not going to be open for years and the kind of longer term projects, I think will be a key source of debate. Yeah, that sounds like a whole nother show. But before the break that we're coming up on real quickly, tell me about the state worker payroll freeze he's proposing, how much that would save whether you think that's going to happen given how powerful unions are?

Yeah. So what Newsom has proposed is basically a little more than $700 million from the state's payroll expenses. Where I could see this really playing out is in kind of collective bargaining agreements that happen separately from the state budget negotiations, right? The state legislature has to pass a balanced budget.

by the middle of June. But separately, you're going to have these negotiations with state workers and the Newsom administration to try to get some cuts out of those. So this may be something where we see how the negotiations go with the bargaining units, and then maybe Newsom potentially takes action after June 15th in regards to that.

We're talking about Governor Newsom's plans to close California's $12 billion budget deficit. We're talking about it with KQED's politics team. Guy Marzarotti is correspondent on that team. And with you, our listeners, what do you think of the proposals Newsom has made to tackle the budget deficit? How do you rate the job Newsom's doing right now? Have any recent actions or statements by Newsom surprised you?

Again, the email address, forum at kqed.org. You can find us on our social channels at KQED Forum, and you can call us 866-733-6786, 866-733-6786. More after the break. I'm Mina Kim. Support for Forum comes from San Francisco Opera. Amidst a terrible storm, Ida Mineo promises the god Neptune that he will sacrifice the first person he sees if he and his crew survive the tempestuous waters.

But as he arrives safely to shore, his relief transforms into horror when the first person he lays eyes upon is his own son.

This summer, venture into the storm with Mozart's sublime opera, Idomeneo. June 14-25. Learn more at sfopera.com. Greetings, Boomtown. The Xfinity Wi-Fi is booming! Xfinity combines the power of internet and mobile. So we've all got lightning-fast speeds at home and on the go! That's where our producers got the idea to mash our radio shows together! ♪

Through June 23rd, new customers can get 400 megabit Xfinity Internet and get one unlimited mobile line included, all for $40 a month for one year. Visit Xfinity.com to learn more. With paperless billing and auto-pay with store bank account, restrictions apply. Xfinity Internet required. Texas fees extra. After one year, rate increases to $110 a month. After two years, regular rates apply. Actual speeds vary.

You're listening to Forum. I'm Mina Kim. We're getting your thoughts this hour on how Newsom is governing California and talking with KQED politics correspondent Guy Marzarotti about he's proposing to handle the state's $12 billion budget shortfall.

That budget cap could get a lot bigger later this year, depending on how things go in Washington. And for that, we turn now to Marisa Lagos, politics correspondent for KQED and co-host of KQED's Political Breakdown. Hi, Marisa. Hey. So talk about the House budget bill and how it could impact California. Yeah.

Not well. I mean, you know, I think the biggest line item that folks here are bracing for relates to what you and Guy were just talking about, which is Medicaid, which is, of course, this program that serves millions of low income and disabled folks. It is their primary medical insurance. It's called Medi-Cal here in California.

And the Republican budget plan does include deep cuts to that, some $800 billion, I think, over a 10-year period. So that would really harm the state. There's also been a lot of focus by folks like Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats on the cuts to programs like SNAP, which is essentially food stamps, food assistance for low-income families. So I think the social safety net programs are really at the heart of what is spelled out in the budget.

But you have to kind of take this in concert, Mina, with the other funding threats we're seeing from this administration. So in addition to, you know, the layoffs and cuts that folks like Elon Musk and his allies at Doge made, Trump's really moved to trust.

at least to cut off a whole host of funding areas to California as a way to kind of strong arm the state into adopting policy positions that he agrees with more than the state. So just this weekend, I had a story run about threats to grants for homeless housing. So these are long term supportive housing. The city gets about 50 million dollars a year, for example, in San Francisco. I think 34 million dollars a year in Santa Clara County is

And essentially what Trump has said is like if the state or if the county won't certify that they don't have DEI programs, that they don't...

you know, serve transgender people, that they don't have sanctuary policies, then they won't even be eligible to apply for those grants. And so and that's just like one example I'm using. But there's a lot of stuff like that around law enforcement grants, immigration funding, all sorts of things that this administration is really trying to tie to policies that in many cases have very little or nothing to do with that actual program. Yeah, there's so much to have to think about with regard to this particular issue.

And then on top of that, of course, Marisa, we had the L.A. County wildfires. And I understand there was a tax filing extension period granted, of course. Is that creating a lot of revenue uncertainty, too, for the state budget? Yeah. And this is not the first time we've seen this happen. Right. When there have been large disasters, mostly wildfires, but of any sort in past years, floods and others, all of that.

Often there is this extension given and that just does make it harder to plan. I mean, a budget is at best a guesswork anyway. The state is making projections this spring looking out to where they think things will be, you know, come next spring. And so, you know, if everyone files their taxes on time in April, those projections are a lot easier to make because we have more hard numbers to factor in.

You know, L.A. is such a giant county that that delay is certainly going to make it a lot more difficult at the Department of Finance and for lawmakers and the governor to kind of guess. And then there's also I think we should note all the uncertainty around the broader economy. Right. The tariffs, what that has done to the stock market.

California relies sort of disproportionately on income from wealthy earners in this state, both payroll taxes, but particularly capital gains taxes. And so anytime you have fluctuation in the stock market, that can really hurt the state's bottom line. And again, the uncertainty makes it really difficult to plan. So there's a lot of balls in the air. I mean, I would be honestly surprised if

the state didn't have to reopen its budget come this fall because right now what the governor is projecting with this 12 billion dollar deficit which you know I do think to our earlier callers question is not huge given the overall budget picture of over 300 billion but it's not nothing either but you know that's not taking into account this potential republican budget or all these other cases that are playing out largely in court where trump is threatening to cut funds so

It could well be that they pass a, quote unquote, balanced budget as they are legally obligated to do by June 30th. And then in September, October, have to come back and kind of supplement it with a bunch of other budget bills, cuts. I mean, who knows, maybe even revenue proposals. We'll see. But I don't think this budget is going to be wrapped up by the summer. Yeah. Guy, have you heard folks making projections about how big that budget gap could become and what else could be on the chopping block? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I do think that the elephant in the room is the federal cuts that could potentially come. I mean, I think even you look at California as a state that has a high Medicaid population. So any kind of cuts that the administration is considering would have an outsized impact in California.

But then on top of that, there are specific proposals that are in this House budget that would target California. One of them would be lowering the federal payments through Medi-Cal for any state that's covering undocumented immigrants in the Medi-Cal program. Even in the case of California, where that's happening with state money, the state has decided to use its own money to extend Medi-Cal coverage to undocumented immigrants. And what the House budget would do is basically say, we're going to reduce

payments writ large for Medi-Cal, for expansion enrollees, for any state that goes ahead and makes that decision. So there's specific stuff in there that would punish California. We'll have to see if that stays in in the final version. But I agree with Marisa. I think there's a lot of indications that this is a budget that could potentially be reopened. And look, part of that already happens. The legislature has to pass a balanced budget by June 15th.

In reality, what has happened a lot in recent years is they passed kind of a spending framework in June 15th just to meet that requirement, a.k.a. continue to get their paychecks. And then throughout the summer, there's ongoing negotiations and kind of trailer bills on finer points. But I think that could become especially the case this year, depending on where this federal budget shakes out. And Mina, can I just jump in with one quick thing, which...

A lot of the pain that Newsom is proposing, you know, not allowing new enrollee adult enrollees of undocumented immigrants onto Medi-Cal, instituting a hundred dollar copay, which I think for a lot of folks is.

Doesn't sound like a lot, but would have the effect of essentially dropping a lot of people from the roles. I think it's really important to note Newsom did not propose that these would happen immediately. These are things that are going to be coming in 2026. And in the case of the copay, not till 2027, which, by the way, he'll be out of office. So it's almost like the way he structured this budget is.

I don't know. Politically, it was kind of smart, right? Because it kind of maybe gave them a little breathing room to get some, like, at least to push back on some of the Republican talking points around undocumented folks. It made it look like he was sort of going after that population, which might play well nationally. But it also delayed this pain in a way that, like, we don't really know. And it could even be worse than what he's proposing now because of all the uncertainty. On the flip side, I'll say it does create this kind of weird dynamic where Newsom is both repressive

railing against these federal cuts and their impact to California, specifically to Medi-Cal. He said that basically what's in the budget the House Republicans passed would mean $22 billion

Less of federal funding for California, three million people losing health care coverage. At the same time, his budget is really centered around cuts to that same program. But isn't this like classic Newsom? Like he almost wants to talk out of both sides of his mouth, right? Because on the one hand, he can look at Trump and say, hey, I'm cutting undocumented insurance. And on the other hand, he can look at, you know, progressive Democrats and say, hey, it's not that bad. Like, you know, I don't know.

We're talking about Governor Newsom, how he is prioritizing cuts to the budget in certain arenas, what that tells you about his priorities and what you think of his job performance with Marisa Lagos, co-host of KQED's Political Breakdown, politics correspondent at KQED, and Guy Mazzarotti, also correspondent at KQED. And let me go to Sid in San Francisco. Hi, Sid, you're on.

Hi. I just wanted to make a comment that he should not have gone to talk with Charlie Kirk and should not have given a platform to people like that and should not certainly should not have mentioned things like he also.

does not believe in men playing in women's sports. And I'm talking about, of course, trans men. We expect so much more from the governor of California. This is a blue state. He was the person who, when he was the mayor of San Francisco, he initiated gay marriage, and that was an amazing thing.

And from that to this is just feels like 180 degree turn. We were just talking before your program at nine o'clock about 180 degree turn of Elon Musk. And then what is this? So thanks.

So Marisa, Sid is talking about statements that Newsom made on his podcast when he had Charlie Kirk on where he was basically saying that it was unfair for trans athletes to participate in girls sports. And this is one of many things that people are attributing to or speculating around a Newsom pivot to the center in anticipation of a presidential run in 2028. This listener writes, I saw...

By pivoting, is Newsom more likely to alienate people who already support him or to attract any new populations of voters who may already be deciding on hating anything out of California? So a couple of things. One is we'd love to get your reaction to what Sid is saying about what Newsom is doing here and also about speculation that Newsom is pivoting to the center.

Yeah, I cannot read the governor's mind or get in his head. So this is all going to be, you know, based on my own experience covering the man for 20 years. I think that a lot of his allies were surprised by the trans comment, which almost seemed like

in a way off the cuff in the sense that he said sort of it's unfair, it's deeply unfair, but did not expand on that. This is a person who, of course, not only has been a leader, you know, opening up City Hall to gay marriage here in San Francisco way before it was legal in the state or nationally until this year, we all thought supporting the state's laws that do allow trans youth to compete in sports up through high school. I think...

I think he is trying to maybe broaden his base. I, you know, I take the man at his word when he says he wants to have conversations with folks who are, you know, have different opinions from him. I don't know that I would call those interviews conversations. They were not there wasn't a lot of back and forth. It was a lot of.

Newsom seemingly agreeing with these folks. Like personally, putting on my analyst hat, I have a hard time seeing a California candidate in 2028. We haven't done well in the past, including in 2024 when we have run California politicians. That said, there is a long road between now and then. And I do think Newsom is trying to at least expand his

potential political footprint. I think he is trying to at least show that he's open to hard conversations. And I think that the way he did that, particularly with the trans issue, was kind of messy and really unclear as to what he actually means or what policies he would and wouldn't support. Yeah. Guy, what do you think about what happened yesterday when

When Newsom said he was happy that CIF, it oversees California's high school sports, is allowing girls who are edged out by a Riverside trans athlete in track and field to still compete.

What's the story behind that? Yeah, I mean, this is, again, I think the strange divergence between Newsom, the podcaster, and Newsom, the governor, because there have been, I mean, he came out and said, you know, he believes this is deeply unfair that transgender athletes participate in girls' sports. But then subsequently, there was legislation introduced in Sacramento to do exactly that, to ban transgender athletes from participating on girls' sports teams. And Newsom did not get behind that bill. I don't think he...

spoke out for it. And it was quickly killed in a committee. So it's unclear whether like, to what extent he actually wants to follow through on this versus to Marisa's point, kind of just wanted it out there in a podcast form and the ether that he in some way empathizes with people who are disagreeing with transgender athlete participation. And then yeah, again, yesterday when

We see the president kind of take aim at a particular athlete in California and their participation in track and field competition. Newsom, again, weighing in in some way saying, OK, well, yeah, at least it's fair for these other athletes to get another shot. You know, it's all very muddy. And again, I think it takes away from it. It highlights the fact that like we're talking about very local sports competitions that

are now getting these like outsized attention and impact. I think it goes to the larger point of like, look, Newsom has set up this this podcast. And I think in a lot of ways, his public persona this year of wanting to do what he calls like a forensic audit on why Democrats lost and hearing from people on the other side of the aisle and having this podcast where he's talking to Charlie Kirk, Steve Bannon. Today, the episode was Newt Gingrich.

I think another approach would be like, you're still the governor of the largest Democratic state in the country. Is there another path taken where it's like the way that you kind of pursue this path to the presidency is by showing that a state run by all Democrats can actually deliver for people who live here? Yeah.

That could be another kind of future path to the presidency. But the one he's pursuing is much more focused on kind of this national discourse and maybe trying to get more into the media landscape as opposed to kind of doing the day to day work of actually like running the state.

Well, Vivian on Discord writes, I understand that federal cuts and uncertainties put a strain on our budget, but why does it seem like they're taking anything excuse to abandon those most in need based with a housing shortage and an expensive correction system? Why would we criminalize homelessness? Marisa, I think Vivian there is reacting to Newsom's comments a couple of weeks ago calling on hundreds of cities and towns to ban and clear homeless encampments.

on public property. And I think it's also connected to this conversation that we're having around whether Newsom is pivoting for political purposes, because some observers felt like this was a significant shift for a politician who'd previously resisted criminalizing homelessness. I'm wondering what you think. You know...

I don't actually see the homelessness stuff as a huge pivot for Newsom. This is an issue that he has attempted to tackle his entire career. It is one that he got a lot of flack on the left from when he was mayor and he instituted a program called Care Not Cash, which aimed to essentially take welfare cash payments and convert them into housing subsidies. Essentially, it told people that they, that might be an oversimplification, but it told people that they had to

accept services in order to get most of that welfare money. And that was, that got a lot of pushback. That was not seen as a super progressive policy. Um,

I think what we've seen over his time in the governor's office is a real move to shore up resources and policies at the state level that he thinks can help facilitate what really is something that is largely happening on the ground at the county and city level. Right. In terms of tackling this problem. And I think that, you know, we heard this even a year or two ago, like what?

the sense from his office that with things like the Proposition 1 bond funding, with other funding that they have moved into helping support cities and counties, that they've given the resources that are necessary and now they really need to hold these places accountable. You know, this is a huge issue, obviously not just for Newsom, for the state. And to Guy's point about trying to sort of prove that these Democratic candidates

run places can operate well I think he sees making some real headway on the homelessness issue as crucial not only for his own political success beyond this point but also just for his legacy so I don't I don't know to me I kind of put that in a different bucket than the trans athletes one it feels more on the same continuum

Well, Noel on Discord writes, he's tired of being governor and started his podcast. Of course, he can't continue to cover undocumented people in Medi-Cal. If he really wants to run for president, it's doomed from the start. I did like how he handled COVID, but then there was the French laundry deal, and there's no way he can overcome the perception of elitism. The California limousine liberal. Sorry, Gav. Another listener on Blue Sky writes,

I think Newsom is doing a good job as governor. He has many difficult decisions to make given the economic and political environment. He has a pragmatic decision-making approach that I appreciate, Medi-Cal enrollment.

is something he can control. I think the majority of voters will reluctantly agree this is the way he did respond this way with regard to when called and asked about changing positions, what he was actually doing. Let's hear him. I've been accused of being a pragmatist for 20 plus years.

And I think I'm being accused of that again. Well, we'll have more on what listeners think about what Gavin Newsom is doing with regard to his job performance, with regard to his plans to close California's budget deficit. Stay with us. This is Forum. I'm Nina Kim. Support for Forum comes from San Francisco Opera. Amidst a terrible storm, Ida Mineo promises the god Neptune that he will sacrifice the first person he sees if he and his crew survive the tempestuous waters.

But as he arrives safely to shore, his relief transforms into horror when the first person he lays eyes upon is his own son.

This summer, venture into the storm with Mozart's sublime opera, Idomeneo. June 14-25. Learn more at sfopera.com. Greetings, Boomtown. The Xfinity Wi-Fi is booming! Xfinity combines the power of internet and mobile. So we've all got lightning-fast speeds at home and on the go! That's where our producers got the idea to mash our radio shows together! ♪

Through June 23rd, new customers can get 400 megabit Xfinity Internet and get one unlimited mobile line included, all for $40 a month for one year. Visit Xfinity.com to learn more. With paperless billing and auto-pay with store bank account, restrictions apply. Xfinity Internet required. Texas fees extra. After one year, rate increases to $110 a month. After two years, regular rates apply. Actual speeds vary.

Welcome back to Forum. I'm Mina Kim. We're talking this hour with Marisa Lagos, politics correspondent at KQED and co-host of KQED's Political Breakdown, Gaia Marzarati, correspondent for KQED's California Politics and Government Desk, and with you, our listeners. How do you rate the job performance Newsom's doing right now? Have recent actions or statements by Newsom surprised you? What do you think of the ways he's tackling the budget deficit? The email address is forum at kqed.org, the phone number 866-733-6786.

We're on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, or threads at KQED Forum. Let me go to caller Laura in Santa Rosa. Hi, Laura, you're on.

Hi, thanks for having me. Hey, listen, oh, that last comment about the French laundry, I'm so tired of hearing about that. Oh my God. Anyway, I agree with, yes, he's trying to expand his base to run in 2028 for whatever hope he has to do that. I'm glad he's talking to the other side.

I'm trying to talk to the other side, and I'm having a hard time trying to do that. And he's a guy that's doing it, and so I commend him for that. And I think when he was our mayor, he did some incredibly progressive things for the city, and I think he's done some really good things for the state. And I think we're all going to be real sorry when he's not around anymore. I guess the kick around, but I think we're going to miss him. Yeah.

We got a defender. We got a defender. I mean, look, Laura, I hear the point about, you know, needing to talk to people across the aisle. I think a lot of people would look at the way Newsom has gone about that and said, there's Republicans here in California that he could talk to. We had Brian Jones on our show last week. It was a

great conversation. I know it's like there's only 30 out of 120 in the legislature. They could all fit into a few lunch booths. But like, why not talk to them about easing environmental laws to build new housing? Republicans would probably be in agreement with Newsom on a lot of that. Why not talk to them, have them on the podcast to figure out a way to solve the state's home insurance crisis? Like there are issues where I think there's no, you know, I think Newsom would say there's no monopoly on good ideas. But like,

There are, I think, a lot of areas, especially when it comes to housing, where there probably is agreement that could be reached and compromise brokered with Republicans and Democrats in the legislature.

But what we're hearing is him talking to, you know, Newt Gingrich about his new book about where Trump fits into the history of the American presidency. That's a different, a totally different idea of reaching across the aisle that I think has raised some eyebrows. Yeah. Well, so has Newsom actually said anything about running for president? I'm sure he's been asked this. What have you heard? I think.

Honestly, I think every guest that he has on brings it up, and then he kind of laughs and then moves on. I mean, he's said in the past pretty unequivocally that's not something that he's interested in, and it actually came up quite a bit

you know, after the debates last year where we saw Joe Biden falter and Newsom really took on the role of like a top Biden surrogate. He really leaned into this idea that like his best role could be backing up Biden, really like, you know, traveling to the debates, being a big advocate surrogate for him and putting to bed any idea that he might present a challenge. I

I don't know if he regrets that in hindsight, but like that was certainly the role that he took on in 2024. And also like that raises an interesting point, which and maybe we'll have forgotten all of this because time's a flat circle and politics breakneck speed. But like he he remained a Biden defender.

to the end. And I do think in this moment when Democrats are having conversations about the future of the party and about the mistakes that were made in terms of the 2024 election, I do expect those questions to get posed to him, you know, whether or not he runs for president or something else or tries to stay relevant. And I got to just underscore what Guy said. Like, you're...

I don't know what the purpose of having a conversation with Charlie Kirk is. It is not the same as having a conversation with the many moderate Republicans in California who would like to come to the table with the governor and Democrats and I think find some areas of common ground. To me, that is an attention seeking move that has very little to do with actually, you know, finding space to agree on.

Well, here, let me get a couple more comments from listeners in. This listener writes, I saw Newsom on Twitch last week getting interviewed by streamers in hopes to reach a newer demographic. It feels like the Dems are taking the try and get a left Joe Rogan to heart. Brad writes, I've never been a Newsom fan. He seems like a smarmy politician who will ride whatever wave he can to be elected, progressive to be SF mayor, progressive to run for California governor, then moderating an office and pivoting rightward with hopes of being president. Let me go to Seema in Palo Alto. Hi, Seema. You're on.

Hi. The point I'd like to make is I think we tolerate so much from Trump. So I'm a hardcore Democrat. Let me state out front. I think what Newsom is doing is great. He is course correcting and we as Democrats need to realize that we went too far left.

I think we need to step out of our beautiful homes and expensive homes and smell the roses outside. I mean, life is difficult for people. So we need to be more cognizant of what everyone with the rest of the country stands, not just where we stand. And as Democrats, there is a lot of course correction needs to be done. And I think all the points that he's making are good. I mean, transgender athletes, we have transgender people in our family, and I totally respect that.

As far as transgender men competing in the men's sport, it works fine. But when it's the women's sport, there's a hormonal difference. Well, maybe we should be talking about hormones and not about transgender people. So for this, I think what he's doing is all correct. Seema, thanks. For purposes of this conversation, I'm wondering, Guy and Marisa, what I'm sort of hearing from our listeners are both his strengths and liabilities as a candidate. And I'm wondering if you could just flesh that out with me a

little bit. I mean, I would say strengths. Newsom has always been a big idea politician, whether you're talking about like, you know, something as headline grabbing as gay marriage in San Francisco, even things that haven't gotten as much attention. Project Homekey during the pandemic proved to be a big success. This idea of the state acquiring Homekey

hotels and motels and moving unsheltered people in there. I think he's been willing to kind of go out on a limb and be creative in trying ideas. His comfort zone as a politician has always been kind of a culture warrior, which is why I think it's an interesting moment as Democrats face, I think, more anxiety around their economic platform. But his strength has always been as kind of a culture warrior politician. I'll say his weakness is his

really no message, no discipline. He's someone who comes up with ideas almost on a weekly basis, and it becomes hard to drive home, like, what are the three things or two things or one thing that are going to be synonymous with him at the end of the day, these kind of programs that he's able to point to and that people are really able to attach him to in kind of the public consciousness. I think that's a huge issue for him moving forward is that they're really, you know, we talked about this on Political Breakdown last week,

Newsom has started a new grade in California. Starting this fall, every four-year-old in the state will have access to transitional kindergarten. Whether you agree or disagree with that as an idea of a best way to spend state money, it's undisputable. That's a huge deal for every kid that's enrolled in that. And that's a huge deal for every family that doesn't have to go out and get childcare and has an extra year of school. But if you were to go and ask people on the street, ask them,

Do they know that Newsom has created an entire new grade for the state of California? To the earlier caller's point, more people are going to know about French Laundry than that.

And I think that is a consequence of Newsom as a politician who is often focused on the next idea rather than hammering home, you know, identify me with this program. And so actually that's something to watch. Like this, this thing fully rolls out in September, universal TK. To what extent does Newsom try to tie himself to like, this is my legacy program. He protected it in the state budget this year. And I think a lot is riding on him being able to have people identify with him, those kinds of programs.

And Marisa, feel free to add to that if you want with regard to strengths and liabilities. But also, I just want to ask you, too, he is at the end of his term. And do you think given everything you laid out about the things that he has to balance under this administration, Kamala Harris, for example, will take will run for the job?

You're asking about Harris running. Yeah, like, do you... She... I don't know why you would want this job. We're getting a really good picture in this first year of just what it's like to be a California governor under a hostile Trump administration. Totally. No, I don't know. I mean...

I think everyone is waiting with bated breath to see what the former vice president decides. I think to your point, Mina, I can't imagine why you would want to, honestly. It is a pretty thankless job and a pretty thankless moment to have the job. You know, if she does what I think myself and a lot of other people will be watching is like, what is her plan? What is her theory of the case? Why is she the best person? Because it is really challenging. And, you know, for me,

I agree wholeheartedly with Guy's assessment. And I think that this sort of interesting mix of both getting in the weeds on things and then sort of getting distracted are kind of the same side of different sides of the same coin in terms of Newsom's strengths and weaknesses. But he was a very different leader than our predecessor, Jerry Brown. Like he did lean into housing and homelessness. There are things he can really point to around child poverty, TK, those sorts of things.

And so, you know, it's not to say that just it's the same regardless of which Democrat is in that office. There are big differences. And I think that's I hope what Kamala Harris is thinking about, like, why would she be the one and what would those things be? Particularly to your point, given the threats coming from D.C. and the real vitriol that like we we see from this president and his administration just about California as like an entity, you know, regardless of one leader or another.

We're talking about Governor Newsom's plans to close California's $12 billion budget gap, about his job performance and his priorities. And this is last year in office. We're talking about it with Guy Marzarotti and Marisa Lagos of KQED's politics team. Marisa also co-hosts KQED's political breakdown. And let me remind listeners, you are listening to Forum. I'm Mina Kim.

So Denise writes, Californians who care about our environment ought to hold Governor Newsom accountable for his actions blocking implementation of the 2018 Bay Delta plan. Another listener writes, we are seeing Newsom backsliding on climate commitments in troubling ways. Right now, a Texas-based company has restarted the offshore oil rigs and pipeline that created California's second largest oil spill. And Annie writes, I used to be a supporter of Newsom, but now I feel he is, among other things, in bed with the PUC PG&E.

So, Guy, you want to address some of these concerns about Newsom on the environment and how much of a liability that could be for him? Yeah, I'm not sure a liability. Like, I think you have seen huge investments that when California was in good budget times with Newsom as governor, make huge investments in things like, for example, electric vehicle charging. And I think the complaints, you know, about the PUC and PG&E, those have been longstanding. And look, the governor has an outsized impact on public.

the CPUC and who kind of regulates utilities in the state. This will be something I think to watch both in the regulation of utilities and also like the Air Resources Board, which is an executive agency that kind of oversees many of California's environmental programs.

These agencies have enormous amounts of power and make decisions in many cases far beyond what your local state assembly member or local state senator is doing. And I think both in terms of utility regulation, energy prices, but also things like cap and trade, fuel emissions, these are agencies to watch as they kind of put forward and kind of carry out California's environmental agenda. But I'm not sure the environment is a...

weak spot for Newsom politically. There was a couple years ago a state ballot measure that would have set aside more money for environmental programs that Newsom opposed. The thinking then was largely that the Teachers Association, which benefits from the fact that most state money goes to education, they would lose if more money was set aside for other ideas. Newsom sided with them. But I look at that as kind of...

you know, one case study in a larger governorship where I think Newsom has directed a lot of money towards environmental programs. Well, Danielle writes, what about the long-term cost of cutting services? Won't more seniors end up in nursing homes if in-home support services are cut? Certainly this will be more expensive than a program to keep seniors in their homes for longer. That's responding to earlier ways that Newsom is trying to close the budget shortfall.

Another one, Casey on Discord writes, Newsom wants to take away the negotiated 3% raise from my bargaining unit. We're already paid a fraction of those in the private sector. It's an insult to injury in the current climate. And in this case, talking about probably the payroll freeze for state workers. So Marisa,

So right now, basically, we're entering a period when lawmakers and Newsom will be negotiating around these types of things in the budget, right, in the May revise to try to meet that June 15th deadline? Yeah.

Yeah, this is, you know, the few weeks where the rubber really meets the road. You have all these hearings and the legislature kind of gets to weigh in. You know, often some of the more meaty conversations do happen behind closed doors amongst the leadership and the governor, and then they will come out and kind of introduce issues.

the policy. But for sure, I mean, if people are happy or upset about what the governor's laid out, there's plenty of information at kqed.org. Guys provided some excellent coverage on this budget proposal. They should tell their lawmakers right now, this is the moment to be weighing in and to make their voices heard. Yeah. So tell me what you think about the fact that he is essentially entering this lame duck period. Do you think that will affect

negotiations in some way, Marisa, with lawmakers? Like, do they sort of see him as maybe somebody on the way out and they don't necessarily have to get in line? Yes and no. I think with individual lawmakers, there might be a little bit more

bit more throwing caution to the wind because they know he's a short timer, but they still do have this legislative session and next one. And a lot of them would still like to see their bills signed if they get through the legislative houses. So I don't think it's completely we're not completely in lame duck term yet. And then I also think you just have to consider the individual relationships. You know, the state Senate president also is kind of a short timer. He's termed out soon. The

Assembly Leader Robert Revis is a not a super bombastic person or confrontational. I think so far there's it's been a decent relationship, I would say, between the legislative leaders and the governor. So, yeah.

I think we have some time yet. But again, everyone's kind of just looking over their shoulder at Trump. And I think when you have such a clear kind of foil in the federal government, it does make it somewhat easier to maybe not let things get as nasty amongst yourselves here in California. I'll say high speed rail is a great test case for this. To what extent is the legislature willing to stand up more forcefully to Newsom? This is obviously a legacy program for Newsom.

Governors before Newsom, but now Newsom as the state is like trudging forward with this project with billions and billions of dollars of a cost hole. You hear legislators all the time in hearings voice frustration with High Seed Rail and say, you know, how can we continue to commit to a program with all these financial issues? But it's almost like Debo and Friday. Every time the rubber meets the road and Newsom actually comes around, it's like, oh, well, I guess Newsom.

let's go along with another year of funding this program. So you hear these frustrations all the time, not just in private among lawmakers, but even in their own hearings as they're dissecting the budget. But yet it seems like this program just continues to trudge forward and get billions of dollars every year. This will be a key case to watch and to what extent lawmakers are actually willing to

if at all, kind of stand up and push back against the Newsom's plans. You're probably answering the question I was going to ask you, which is what you're watching for, Guy, with regard to how these negotiations go, especially with Newsom on the way out, if there's anything else you want to add.

Yeah, I mean, I think certainly I'll be very closely covering this cap and trade conversation because I think it really does get at the nexus of the state's environmental leadership and these affordability concerns that I think Democrats came back to the Capitol after the election saying we have to focus first and foremost on affordability.

Everything has to be centered around housing prices, electricity prices, home insurance prices. This is a huge opportunity to deal with those issues because it is such a far reaching environmental program that on the same hand creates a lot of money for the state to spend. So you get kind of California's climate leadership versus the current imperative to address cost concerns all within kind of one debate. So I'll certainly be seeing how that shakes out.

Yeah, some final comments from listeners. Newsom has always been a neoliberal with selective liberalism, so long as the liberalism didn't rock the boat too much. Another listener writes about his podcast. He is talking to California Republicans. I can't think of any better person to navigate our way through fast autocracy. His podcast is not aimed at Democrats. Yeah.

Guy, thanks so much for talking with us and for the budget overview. Really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. Guy Marzarotti, correspondent for KQED's government desk. Marisa, politics correspondent at KQED, co-host of KQED's Political Breakdown. Always good to have your analysis as well. My pleasure. And my thanks to Susie Britton for producing today's segment. And as always to listeners for their questions and their opinions. You've been listening to Forum. I'm Mina Kim.

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