555: From Kitchen to Shelf with LLance Kezner
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Welcome to the How of Business with your host, Henry Lopez, the podcast that helps you start, run, and grow your small business. And now, here is your host. Welcome to the How of Business. This is Henry Lopez, and my guest today is Lance Kesner. Lance, welcome to the show.

Hi, Henry. It's nice to be here. Looking forward to this. On this episode, I'm joined by Lance Kessner. He's a former tech executive who turned his love for home cooking into Millie's Sipping Broth. We'll explain what that is. But it's a specialty food brand that's transforming the way people are enjoying flavorful, health-conscious beverages.

Lance shares his journey. He's going to share his journey from the corporate leadership career to entrepreneurship, the challenges and triumphs of building a business with his wife, Lori, and their exciting milestone of bringing their award-winning broth brand blends to Walmart shelves nationwide, which is a huge, huge next scaling step.

You can find all of the Howa Business resources, including the show notes page for this episode. We're going to have a promo code there. If you're interested in looking at the product and buying this product, the Millie's Sipping Broth product, be sure to go to the show notes page for this episode for a promo code. And you can find that along with my coaching programs and all of those resources at thehowabusiness.com website.

I also invite you to please consider supporting this podcast on Patreon. And wherever you're listening, please subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Let me tell you a little bit more about Lance. Lance Kessner, as I said, is a former tech executive who transformed his passion in home cooking into a thriving specialty food business alongside with his wife, Lori.

They've crafted again Millie's Sipping Broth, which is a unique line of flavorful, health-conscious broth blends in a teabag, so in a teabag form. And they've earned them three international recognized awards for excellence in specialty food.

And most recently, as I mentioned, we're going to explore how they have been selected by Walmart, what's called the Golden Ticket opportunity, to now have it on Walmart shelves. So that's really exciting. He's going to share that journey and some of the challenges getting there. He and his wife live in the Seattle, Washington area. So once again, Lance Kessner, welcome to the show.

Hi, Henry. Great to be here. Absolutely. Let's just start briefly the journey you have as I was researching it, at least based on what I saw on LinkedIn, a varied experience. This was not your first business venture, but let's start from the beginning. What did you end up doing career-wise out of university? Well, I always had an interest in international business, international relations, and

And so my father was in the import business and he welcomed me in to learn all about that. So right out of college, I started working with him and traveling and spending a lot of time in China and

doing imports and developing product lines for distribution in the United States. So that's really where I learned everything I can imagine about making a product, building a brand, dealing with customers, you know, good customers, bad customers, getting customers, you

Yeah, so that's really where I got my feet wet. Yeah, tremendous experience. What a great opportunity that was to learn, yeah? Yes, absolutely. You're just right.

right after China opened up after the Tiananmen Square. So things were very, very new. Yeah, Wild West, if you will. It was. It really was the Wild West. Very exciting. Yeah. Did you, so you obviously you were in an entrepreneurial family. Those influences were there, although you studied, I think it was political science, as you alluded to.

Did you want to go into business or was this just an opportunity that was there? Tell me about that. I think that, you know, growing up in a family business where my parents were in charge of their own destiny was predestined for me. I, you know, I grew up very much with my father's attitude of, you

you know, the only way you're going to make it as if you do it yourself kind of, kind of thing. Now, having said that, I, I did work for other, you know, companies and, and learned what I, I could and, you know, kind of realized what he had told me was true, but yeah, I, I think it was just kind of in the cards all along. Right.

And so one of the things that can happen that I'm always interested in is when children of business owners sometimes only hear at the dinner table, the problems, the headaches, and they end up thinking, I want none of that. Did you get that impression? Oh, business is hard and it's painful. And all I hear is lawsuits and problems. And, or did your parents, or did you see, like you said, both sides of it?

Well, you know, as I got older, I realized what the problems meant. And, you know, my father, we actually went through a bankruptcy where we lost our house and everything like that. So I faced it. Impactful. You know. Oh, yeah. I mean, and I was older when that happened.

Not that it was easy, but so I got to see the good and the bad firsthand. I got to live it. And yeah, there are certain things that I avoid that kind of sent him down that path. But there are things that I learned where, you know, I didn't have, you know, you don't have to create problems for yourself anymore.

And that that's really where I learned those lessons. I think, I think the most important part was that I, I was eager to learn lessons from the issues that I saw. Yeah. And I, here's another thing too. I think that I didn't really have a choice in facing these things. They were just there. And I think as an entrepreneur down the road,

You can't bury your head in the sand. You really do have to face the things. And a lot of times it's not as bad as they seem.

But just being able to stand up to them and not be afraid to try and solve problems is probably the biggest thing I learned from that whole experience. Yeah, well said. And a lot of key takeaways there. Thanks for sharing that. And what it did not do, because a lot of times when that happens, oh, gosh, no, business is very risky. I'm going to go the safe corporate route.

but it doesn't seem like it had that impact on you. You were well aware enough, and I suspect you must've gotten this from your dad as well. It's like, okay, here were the mistakes we made. Let's learn from them. The lesson isn't don't try your hand at business, right? That was not the lesson it seems to me. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right. So what were you doing then when this idea came

for Millie's Broth comes to you? What were you doing at that point in time? Yeah, so I had been in the import business with my father, family business, family dynamics. I decided I need to separate and kind of go out on my own. And

I'd always been tech oriented. And so I explored business during the dot-com boom here in Seattle area is very, very vibrant. And so I joined some technology companies early on and became a VP of business development

But in 2009, when the economy kind of collapsed, I lost my job and my wife and I kind of decided, let's really take things into our own hands again. And we had always been passionate about food and what we could do with food. Both of us are, you know, our hobbies are really

artsy kinds of things and creating things. Both of us have that in common. And I had created a garlic product that I just used myself for cooking. And that's really where we kind of started by taking this and commercializing it and bringing it to the market. That's really where we got our experience from. With the garlic product.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So that was a product you already had on shelves or you were selling online or whatever the case might be. Yeah. We, we started it from zero and that's where we learned all about the ins and outs of creating a food product, the labeling, the manufacturing, the marketing, what it took to bring on customers, what it took to satisfy them. And we also learned that,

where the limitations were in the market for products like that. I think that was probably the biggest thing that we learned because it helped us kind of understand, you know, what we wanted to do going forward. Is it going to, was it going to be this garlic product, which by the way,

We won international – a Sophie Award at the Fancy Food Show in New York. We won Outstanding Product of the Year a year and a half after we created this product. And we were on the front cover of Specialty Food Magazine. We didn't know what hit us. I mean, it was –

We got like the Oscar award for food for, you know, these people who, you know, just were playing around with something in their kitchen. So that's kind of how we started. What was the impact of that? Were you then hit by demand that you could not satisfy or what was the opposite? Yeah.

I think, you know, we were hit with all kinds of demand, all kinds of knockoff copycats. We got inquiries that we didn't know. We didn't know where they were coming from and realized that there were some pretty big companies that were kind of testing our capacity. And they realized, you know, that we were very small and that there's no way that we'd be able to, you know, supply them. And, and,

So, yeah, it was everything. It was like a fire hose, really, all at the same time. I'm assuming some of them testing to see how easily can we kill you if we understand what your limitations are, yeah? Totally. Oh, totally. We ran into that as well. And it really tested...

Our production capacity, our production partners, our manufacturing, you know, all of these things that you don't really think of.

When you first start up, you have to kind of build your experience with each of these things. But we got them all shoved into our face at the same time. Yeah. Amazing. Now, is that a product that you still offer or what happened to that product? Yeah, we don't offer it anymore only because of the Millie's Sipping Broth really took our focus and really took off.

in a much bigger way. And we realized that we needed to concentrate on what was, you know, what was really working. And I think one of the incentives related to a point you made a moment ago, this product now, Millie's Sipping Broth, it seems like it's an alignment where you wanted, which was a product that could reach mass market or larger market, hence Walmart. Were you trying to say that with the garlic product,

It was more of a specialty boutique store kind of product, or am I missing something there? Yeah. So the garlic was more of a specialty item. And in the food business, what we found out is it's really easy to start in the specialty area because-

That's where people are. That's where the early adopters are. That's where they're a little more forgiving. And the products are there. They are specialty. They're not mass market. Right. But we realized that if we were going to make it in the business, that we needed to really go for a bigger category of,

And yeah, so when when the idea for Millie's came along, we, you know, there was a huge gap that we saw that we could fill. And it was it really did fit everything we were looking for. And then why in the format of a teabag? And explain that. Explain how what we're talking about here.

Yeah. So the idea came from, and by the way, when we were doing this business, it wasn't like we were only focused on that. Both myself, myself and my wife, Lori were working consulting jobs, other jobs on the side to, to help fund our, our life and our business. And,

And so Lori was still teaching as a teacher. And so she used to take a bullion cube with her to school to have in between classes in the afternoon because she wanted something savory and hot to drink.

And I said, let me make something that's a little healthier for you. Like a lot less salt, probably. A lot less salt, a lot less artificial ingredients. I put together kind of a dry mix of stuff and

And she said she saw that in the cup, it was like all over the place. She said, why don't you put that in a teabag so I can just steep it like tea and then drink the broth. So I literally in in our kitchen, Laurie and I, we were taking apart Lipton teabags and emptying out the green tea, putting in this mixture and.

And then stapling it back together. We made about 10 or 12 of them. She took them to school and put them in the teacher's break room and everyone went crazy over them. And we looked at each other and thought, oh, okay. I think we have something here. Yeah. Yeah. It's a brilliant example of how you, you began here by a, a, a need you had a desire you had to,

a product you were using and developing it that way initially, if I'm getting it right. Yeah. I'm always curious since you're on the point of that feedback. Often what I see happens is our friends and coworkers tell us how wonderful this is. So therefore the world must love it too, right? But there's a big gap there, as you know, much better than I, but where I'm going with this is how did you then test it more broadly? Or did you take that as enough to tell you there's a market for that?

Well, we knew from the first product that we created that we needed to get exactly what you were saying. We needed to get independent verification of our idea from people that didn't know us.

And so we were fans of create a product and see if you can sell it. We want to move away from getting people to taste it and all that kind of stuff. We want to go right to the people that would impact the most, which are retailers who thought they could sell it.

And so we right away went into designing a package, putting it into a format that retailers would buy. And so since we were already going to places where these specialty retailers were going to or selling. So you're talking about the different shows where they show up at and of course you already had connections with some of them.

Right, exactly. So we would just, we would go there, put it on the shelf, get people to taste it. And right away they started buying it. And, um, simultaneously we had a booth at the Pike place market in Seattle on the weekends. And so we would, we started selling it there also. Um,

Again, people we didn't know. And yeah, that's where we got the confidence to, you know, keep expanding it. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. And then so that obviously, of course, then refined and drove the packaging and the price point is what are people willing to pay for this? What did you initially kind of compare it to to say, well, we think it's in this ballpark or we're going to package is similar. Was it still the the tea as a comparison or what did you compare it to of anything?

Yeah, that's a great question. Since we knew that we were kind of crushing two categories together, like we've got the tea category and the soup category, you know, we literally could do whatever we wanted, but it still needed to be within reason. So we kind of took a price point that was okay in the specialty food category.

arena as kind of our price point. We didn't really think about it as a tea necessarily, but anything under $12.95 was pretty good in the specialty market since we knew that. And so that's kind of where we started. $12.95 for a package of multiple or one? Yeah, for 12 servings. $12 for 12, $12.95 for 12. Got it. Thanks. Interesting. Yeah.

Brilliant, brilliant. So where did the name Millie come from? Millie was the name of my wife's mother. And the reason why we named it Millie's

is because she used to bring people together around food Friday nights to kind of, you know, get everyone together, talk about their weeks, share their stories. And it was a way for her to connect with everybody. And so we wanted to, you know, to do that. And then also,

there was a funny story about how Millie used to make broth. And we found out that the broth really came from a can of Swanson's. And so, you know, it was, it was a very funny way of,

that, you know, we kind of connected with her and we really wanted to honor her because she was, you know, a very big impact in our lives. Yeah. What a beautiful tribute. And there's that connecting story, which makes it even better. I'm assuming then is that one of the threads that influences the branding of the product, meaning using this as, as an opportunity to sit and converse like one would over a cup of tea?

Absolutely. You know, one of the things that we kind of, and we, you know, we backed ourselves into this idea. It's not that we started off with this idea, but what we realized is that, you know, people need more tools to help them deal with stress and anxiety now more.

Now more than ever. And food is a direct correlation to comfort. And so that's why we call Millie's comfort food in a broth. And it really helps you, you know, helps you be satisfied. It helps you to stop and take a minute to make a cup of this for yourself. Just like

your mom or your grandma or anyone significant in your life would do to take care of you. And we realized that that's what people were doing with our product. It's something we kind of, we didn't signal to people to do it. We just, you know, that was just part of how we created it, but it was happening. And, you know, that definitely entered into our messaging and to our, you

you know, the way that we wanted to communicate what, you know, how you use the product. Yeah, no, that's, that's wonderful. I can see that all coming together. And even of course, the process of making it, it's not just something you're throwing into the microwave. There's a process there that all adds to that, the value of it for us emotionally, if you will. Absolutely. Absolutely.

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So from the time you come up with this initial idea, you're testing it and you're making it with your own tea bags to it's on some retailer's shelf. What time frame are we talking about more or less there? Probably a three-month process. Wow, very short. Again, this is because of your experience because that seems like a really fast period of time, no? Well, you know, we did that with the garlic too. Interesting. I didn't waste any time.

And one of the biggest pieces of advice that I got when we first started in the food business was don't make it yourself. Do everything you possibly can to not make it yourself because you will get bogged down in all kinds of needless details. You've got to find someone else to make it for you. So-

We had that knowledge. Yeah, that mentality and approach. Because the time needs to be spent getting the word out, selling it, getting placed, all of those kind of things. Yeah? Exactly, which is a completely different discipline. Right. And especially with food, it needs to be manufactured in a safe environment. It needs to be manufactured safe.

according to FDA regulations and everything like that. And the co-packers who do that are specialists in that. So we, you know, we move very quickly. The garlic one was the same and we did it very quickly. And, you know, we,

I had this attitude like, let's see if we can get this to fail as quickly as possible. If no one's going to buy it, let's move on. You want to know. Right. Brilliant. Now, here a little bit more challenging in finding that co-packer because we're not talking about a basic product here. The packaging, the teabag component of it is unique. So did you have a challenge finding someone that would do it? Oh, yeah. We – it took –

probably six years to kindly, you know, find the right partner. We went through, yeah, we went through about four different partners. A lot of it was we were growing and then we would reach the limits of their capabilities. But then technology would change.

we would have different requirements. But I think the bottom line was, is that we would just reach the limits of certain capabilities. And we had to, either we were, if we wanted to grow, we had to figure something else out. Yeah. And right now who you're doing it with, is it stateside? Is it overseas combination? Yeah.

No, we do. Everything is made in the USA and that's why we were able to work with Walmart. Okay. That was, that's one of the things that they look for. Yeah. Okay. Excellent. All right. You touched on the funding. It sounds like you self funded this at least initially. Is that correct? Yes. Yep. Credit cards, working two or three jobs. Yeah. Everything. Is the business profitable now?

Oh, yeah. We are profitable. Yeah. And have you had to take in any other money as you made these leaves, as you've grown, especially now with Walmart, or is it still all bootstrapped? We partnered with a company a couple of years ago that allowed us to...

bring on capital sales operations in order to grow, to scale it at a rapid pace. And so we were very lucky that we attracted an organization that understood our vision and has helped us

you know, expand that, especially during COVID when we kind of went viral with the whole, you know, the whole thing. I mean, it just kind of hit a

an inflection point that really gave us and our partner confidence in where this could go. And the structure that you have now, this money we're talking to about, it's all lending structures, no equity that you had to give up at this point?

No, it's a, it's a peer partnership. So we're, we're partners in the brand and it was, it was a very good fit and has been a very good fit for the past five years. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. All right. I want to go back to a tactical question since, since we're on it here specifically, what is the advice you give to someone who is developing a product for the first time, a food product? Let's stay with that.

And they have that big challenge of trying to get into that first retailer. You know, the advice I've always been given and give is to try to start local, regional, locally owned. Is that the advice you offer or what do you recommend to people to get started, to get on that first shelf? I think the best thing to do is to find the place where people are looking for what you have.

That's the first thing. Like for you in part, that was Pike's Peak Market. Yeah. Pike Place Market. They're looking for locally made products.

That are, you know, that fit into the theme. Right. So we were making garlic and, you know, at the market, they're selling produce and, and all these things. Right. So it fit and that that's the first place. Now what's different about when we started versus now is the online capabilities and the online marketplaces did not exist before.

like they do now. And so there are, you know, a lot of different things going on now that make it a little bit different. Right. Okay. All right. Let's talk about the Walmart opportunity because that's huge. That's, that's what's new. That is that is the product on the shelf yet or to be on the shelf at Walmart? No, it, it, it is on the shelf. We had to keep it secret for about a year.

And yeah, we are like, I think it's been on the shelf now for four weeks. And where do I find it? In the soup aisle, just down from- So where I would find canned soups or dehydrated soups, you know, kind of packaged soups of any kind. Exactly. Just down from the camp, you know, Campbell's soup takes up about half of the space and then you keep going and then you'll see ours at eye level.

Wonderful. Millie's sipping broth. All right. So tell me about this exciting process. How does one even get invited to potentially, maybe explain that whole process at a high level and what it means to get awarded this opportunity?

So Millie's was given the opportunity to meet with Walmart through what they call the open call. So every year Walmart does an open call for domestically made products that could go into Walmart. That's, you know, food, hard goods, soft goods, anything that Walmart can sell.

And so they asked for a one paragraph introduction to the product. I sent that in and 7,000 products were proposed to Walmart. And then they decided to meet with 800 out of that.

And what they did was they split up the 800 and brought four of them, 400 of them to the Walmart campus in person. And then the other 400 online to do virtual meetings. So we were invited to come on campus in person for meetings with the buyers. And that is that in part because you had a product that you have to taste, right?

Does that not have anything to do with it? No, I don't know. I really don't know. It may have been that we've kind of intrigued them because they asked for samples ahead of time. So the 400 that get invited to campus are kind of the top 400, if you will, perhaps. What other prerequisites were required for you to even apply? In other words, did you have to already have a product on the shelf somewhere?

Oh, yeah. They wanted to see that it existed in other retailers' stables. And we had some great reference accounts, and we showed them that. They also, obviously, were looking at our social media to see what kind of engagement there was. And then the story we had about kind of going viral during COVID, we were discovered by

Weight Watchers International and put on the front page of their, of all their products, websites and marketed to four and a half million Weight Watchers subscribers. And so they were buying our product from Weight Watchers during COVID, which, you know, was amazing. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, as you're describing this, this is classic, right? This is the overnight success that's taken six plus years to build, right?

There's a lot of work that you've done, a lot of successes that you've had to be able to get now on this stage. But going back to that conversation we were having earlier, was this your vision from early on to get it to this level of mass market, if you will, a Walmart level? Yeah, it was definitely our vision to get it to a national retailer and

But being careful to make sure that there was enough demand for it. We didn't want to blow our chances by getting it into wide distribution just to sit on the shelf and have no one buy it. And that's-

Right. Right. And it, it's an ongoing issue. It's not something that you kind of can sit back on your laurels. It's a challenge. You know, I always tell people it's, it's easy to get it on the shelf. It's hard to get someone to go back and buy it over and over and over again. That's where components of merchandising come in, branding, all of those different, different components come into play then. Yes.

branding is now fractured into, you know, social proof. You've got, you know, what, what are these people saying about this or, or discovery, even discovery is critical. So, and that's all off shelf, you know, it's all off shelf that that's being driven. Right. Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

Okay. How much pressure, how much impact did they have on you having to adjust your pricing, retail pricing? Yeah, we, we went in. So luckily our partner had a lot of experience in working with their channel. And so we were very aggressive and met them in a way that I don't think they were expecting. We knew, we knew what,

you know, what to expect. We had, luckily, our manufacturing capabilities and our scaling capabilities were at a point where

where we knew that our costs were going to be in line with what they were expecting. And I think that's also a reason why they put us in so many stores right up front. Yeah. Yeah. So this partner that you're alluding to is the same partner as the funding partner. They provide this type of consulting as well. Yes. Yeah. Invaluable. I think that that sounds like that's been for you in many regards. Incredible. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Now you'll continue to offer it online at Walmart and at other retailers, correct? Yeah. We're in about, let's see, we're in about 2,500 stores right now. And then by January, we'll be in about 3,000 locations. Okay. All right. So I asked you specifically about some advice on getting into a store, but let's take a step back when people come to you, which I'm sure they do all the time now.

I've got an idea for a food product. Where do you tell them to start? I think it's just like any other product, which is why do people need it? You know, that's the most critical thing. I always laugh at, I don't laugh. I mean, I look at some people's ideas, especially in food, where

you know, they're going to create another barbecue sauce. Okay. Like why does someone need your barbecue sauce over, you know, the millions of other ones that are out there? What problem is it solving?

And I think that's, that's kind of lacking in the food business where it's, you know, you know, you're solving a thing, a problem with us, with Millie's Sipping Broth. The problem we're solving is there was no savory hot soup.

beverages available in the category. So if you needed something to drink that wasn't coffee, tea, hot cocoa or cider, that was it. It was hot. You know, you could drink hot water. Or improvise like your wife was doing with a bullion cube. Exactly. That's all you would do. Exactly. So you reinvented or created a sub-segment that didn't exist before. Exactly. And then what happened was

People started using it for the exact same reason my wife was, which is to complement their wellness routines. So they were integrating it on a daily basis and

with a snack substitute or adding protein and having a savory hot protein drink instead of a sweet protein drink or using it to break a fast, or even if they were going through medical treatments or they were just ways in which they

wanted to, you know, kind of cut down on calories, cut down on carbs in order to make their days, you know, go better and their wellness routines to be successful. Yeah, brilliant. And then I think the other thing that was that you knew you had to do is you had to quickly get beyond the people who are going to tell you how much they love it. And that's what the Pikes Market did for you to validate it with an unknown audience that they would in fact pay for this.

Absolutely. We were selling broth in the middle of summer. It was like 100 degrees outside, and people were coming and buying it and taking it with them. Right. Completely related, but off of the business topic you had mentioned, the family dynamics earlier on, you work with your spouse now. How do you make that work? Yeah. I mean, we spend a lot of time together, and during COVID, we spent even more time together. I think that...

The fact that we both really have different kinds of thoughts

talents is, is huge. And we both respect those, you know, those boundaries that, that makes a big difference because I saw my parent, my parents used to work together and I, you know, I witnessed good times and bad times when, when that was going on. So again, I learned a lot of ways to kind of make that work. There are, you know, there are challenges and, and we both

kind of know when to back off, which is good. I mean, and we've been doing this now for over, you know, 10 years. So something's working well. Yeah. I'm hearing, I think, also delineation of roles. Is that part of it?

Huge. Yeah, really important. And I think, but we also know when the other person needs to be called out on an assumption and just double checked and not be afraid to do that. And which my wife does all the time. I can imagine. Well, great. That's fantastic. That's wonderful when it does work out.

All right. We'll start to wrap it up. I know you're going to have, we're going to have a code, a coupon code or a discount code. You tell me what you call it so that if somebody wants to try this, they can go to the website. So tell me about that.

Yeah. So when you use the coupon code, you will get 20% off of your order. And we love to get your feedback. We love to see your Millie's mug shot. A lot of people take pictures or videos with our product and their favorite mug. So we'd love to see your mug shot on our social media and feature it on our website.

Wonderful. What is the website? It is MilliesSippingBroth.com. And Millies is M-I-L-L-I-E, correct?

Correct. And if you, if you can't remember how to spell Millie's, all you have to do is go to sipping broth.com and it'll get you the same place. It'll redirect. Wonderful. Yes. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. So take advantage of that. I'll have the coupon code. It has, it'll be created by the time this episode goes live. So when you're listening to it, it's live, it's available. Just go to the show notes page for this episode at the how a business.com get that coupon code. I'll have a link there as well. So you don't have to remember the website.

And go and take advantages and try this great product. Obviously, it's at a great price point, so it's not about that. If you don't want to try it online, you're going into Walmart, you know where to look for it. Look for it in the soup section and look for the brand there and try it.

a wonderful product and certainly worth trying. Okay. I'm always looking for a book recommendation. Is there a book that comes to mind, Lance, that you would recommend to us? Yes. I'm going to tell you about a book my friend Mike Schiller wrote, which is Sales Mastery, Cast Your Way to Success. And it's about unleashing the art of sales through tried and true fishing techniques and

And so Mike, I've known Mike for a long time, and he's the consummate entrepreneur sales guy and what he wrote in this, and it's an easy read. It's a, you know, it's a really quick easy read on Amazon. What he put together was how his love of fishing was.

really taught him these ways in which you can sell and not get kind of bogged down in

the, the rejection or anything like that. You know, in fishing, you're not always going to catch a fish, right? But if you know, you know, the best ways to coax the fish to jump on your line, you can, you can apply the same principles to sales techniques. That's wonderful. I love the analogy. Yeah, absolutely. I'll have a link to it on the show notes page as well.

for this episode at thehowabusiness.com. All right, we'll wrap it up with these last two questions. What's one thing, Lance, you want us to take away from this conversation that we've had? You know, if I'm thinking about it from the perspective of getting a product to market, certainly to the level that you're at, what's one or two key takeaways you'd like us to take from this?

Don't waste any time. Don't overthink it. Really focus on the simplest application of your product and get it out there. Get it in front of people who might buy it.

Don't waste any time, because I think if you overthink it, you'll start to run into the issues that prevent things from actually happening. And in this case, you will figure out what works, what doesn't work.

And you'll be able to move forward, you know, whatever that direction is. Love that. That's, you know, that's, I refer to it as the MVP approach, right? And so this is another example of a type of business where it allows for that, as opposed to getting a quote unquote, perfect before you launch.

Only the market is going to tell you whether it's somebody somebody wants or if it's too salty or if it's too sweet or it's too expensive, whatever the case might be. You got to get it out there as quickly as possible is what you're saying. Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Right. Tell us the website again that you want us to go to to learn more and to try the product. Go to sipping broth dot com. Excellent.

Excellent conversation. Thanks so much, Lance, for being with me today, being so transparent with your journey, the experiences that you've had. I appreciate you taking the time to be with me today. Thank you. It was great. Nice meeting you and thank you for everyone for listening. Thanks, Lance. This is Henry Lopez and thanks for joining us on this episode of The Howa Business. My guest again today is Lance Kessner.

I release new episodes every Monday morning and you can find the show anywhere you listen to podcasts, including the Howa Business YouTube channel and at my website, which remember, that's where you'll get the coupon code for 20% off on one of these products of Millie's Sipping Broth. Just go to thehowabusiness.com. Thanks again for listening.

Thank you for listening to The How of Business. For more information about our coaching programs, online courses, show notes pages, links, and other resources, please visit thehowofbusiness.com.