Tesla Q1 2025 Financial Results and Q&A Webcast
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Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the show. This is Stage Zero. My name is Will Walden. I'm your host. And in today's episode, we're going to be showing you a clip of Donald Trump and Elon Musk. Now, Elon, in this clip, explains how Doge is doing and what they've done to uncover some secrets and some fraud and how much money they've recovered for the government. And then after that, it's Donald Trump explaining to his cabinet that

How he views Elon Musk. Now, the second or the first part of this shows that Donald Trump doesn't. I think he likes him in a way like he likes him as a person. But he says something that you'll find a little bit. I wouldn't say shocking, but it's something that we didn't expect over here at Stage Zero. And that is that he says that he doesn't really need Elon. And you'll listen to the clip.

And then let me know in the comments if you have comments on your podcast platform. If you don't have comments on your podcast platform, you can go to our YouTube channel Stage Zero News. And we're going to be discussing this over there in a future video as well. So go over there, subscribe to that. And also, when you have a second, I just need one second of your time and I'm going to give you 10 years of my time.

I just need a second for you to hit the subscribe or follow button on your podcast platform. I'm going to give you 10 more years of this show uninterrupted, not behind a paywall.

for free for 10 more years. That's my promise to you. And I'm going to make every single episode better and better every single time. And most of these episodes are going to be five minutes or 10 minutes, somewhere in that range. So you can get all the news as fast as you can and get on with your day. So please give me a second of your time. I'll give you 10 years of mine. All right. Here's Elon talking to Trump's cabinet and

And then Trump talking about Elon. Notice what Trump says about Elon. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Tesla's first quarter 2025 Q&A webcast. My name is Travis Axelrod, head of investor relations, and I'm joined today by Elon Musk, Dev Atanasia, and a number of other executives. Our Q1 results were announced at about 3 p.m. Central Time in the update deck he published at the same link as his webcast.

During this call, we will discuss our business outlook and make forward-looking statements. These comments are based on our predictions and expectations as of today. Actual events or results could differ materially due to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those mentioned in our most recent filings with the SEC. During the question and answer portion of today's call, please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Please use the raise hand button to join the question queue. Before we jump into Q&A, Elon will be providing an update. Elon?

Hello, everyone. Well, it's never a dull moment these days. One thing's for sure, every day is going to be exciting. As some people know, there's been some blowback for the time that I've been spending in government with the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE. I think the work that we're doing there is actually very important for trying to rein in the insane deficit that is leading our country, the United States, to destruction. And the DOGE team has made a lot of progress in addressing waste and fraud

The natural blowback from that is those who were receiving the wasteful dollars and the fortunate dollars will try to attack me and those team and anything associated with me. So then I'm really left with two choices. Should we just let the waste and fraud continue? And I was continuing at it to grow at a really unsustainable pace that was bankrupting the country.

or to fight the waste and fraud and try to get the country back on the right track. And I believe the right thing to do is to just fight the waste and fraud and get the country back on the right track and working together with President Trump and his administration. Because if the ship of America goes down, we all go down with it, including Tesla and everyone else. So I think this is critical work.

Now, the protests that you'll see out there, they're very organized. They're paid for. They're obviously not going to admit that the reason that they're protesting is because they're receiving fraudulent money or that they're the recipients of wasteful largesse. But they're going to come up with some other reason. But that is the real reason for the protests. The actual reason is that

that those receiving the waste and fraud wish to continue receiving it. That is the real thing that's going on here, obviously. So, now that said, I do think there's the large slug of work necessary to get the donors team in place and working in the government to get the financial house in order is mostly done. And I think

starting probably next month, May, my time allocation to Doge will drop significantly. I'll have to continue doing it for, I think, probably the remainder of the president's term, just to make sure that the waste and fraud that we stopped does not come roaring back, which it will do if it has the chance. So I think I'll continue to spend a day or two per week

on government matters for as long as the president would like me to do so, and as long as it is useful. But starting next month, I'll be allocating far more of my time to Tesla. And now that the major work of establishing the Department of Government Efficiency is done. So at Tesla, we've gone through many, many a crisis over the years.

and actually been through many near-death experiences. We probably were on the ragged edge of death at least maybe a dozen times. It's been so many times. This is not one of those times. We're not on the ragged edge of death, not even close. So, you know, there are some challenges, and I expect that this year will be— there'll probably be some unexpected bumps this year.

but i remain extremely optimistic about the future of the company um the future of the company is fundamentally based on uh large-scale autonomous cars and lock and and large scale in large volume vast numbers of autonomous humanoid robots so the uh the value of a company that makes truly useful autonomous humanoid robots and autonomous

useful vehicles at scale at low cost which is what tells us going to do is staggering um i continue to believe that tesla with uh excellent execution will be the most valuable company in the world by far um so that's an important if we must execute well but uh if we do execute well

I think Tesla will be the most valuable company in the world by far. It may be as valuable as the next five companies combined. So there'll be a few bumps along the road before that happens. I said, I think, on the last earnings call that we'll start to see the prosperity of autonomy

take effect in a material way around the middle of next year. We still expect to be selling fully autonomous rights in June in Austin, as we've been saying for now several months. So that does continue. But the real question from a financial standpoint is when does it really become material and affect the bottom line of the company and start to be a fundamental component

part of the of the of the uh when does it move the financial needle in a significant way that's probably um around the middle of next year second half of next year and then once it does stop move the move the national needle is significant way it will really go exponentially from there so that's i'd encourage people to look beyond like the you know some sort of bumps and potholes of the road immediately ahead of us

uh left your gaze to the bright shining you know citadel on a hill i don't know some reagan-esque imagery um and uh that's where we're headed and not not too distant future like i said and the next year or something so um let's see um

with respect to supply chain risk something that's something that tesla has been working on for several years is to localize supply chains um this actually makes sense from a cost standpoint from a and from a logistics risk standpoint um is is to have have the supply chains be at least located on the continent in which the car is built and so we are the least

a company the least affected car company with respect to tariffs at least in most respects I mean it remains to be seen um and now tariffs are still you know tough on a company where margins are still low um but we do have localized supply chains in um both America Europe and China so that's uh that puts us in a stronger position than any of our competitors

And undoubtedly, I'm going to get a lot of questions about tariffs. And I just want to emphasize that the tariff decision is entirely up to the president of the United States. I will weigh in with my advice with the president, which he will listen to my advice, but then it's up to him, of course, to make his decision. I've been on the record many times saying that I believe tariffs.

lower tariffs are generally a good idea for prosperity but this decision is fundamentally up to the elected representative of the people being the president of the united states so um you know i'll continue to advocate for um lower tariffs rather than higher tariffs but uh that's all i can do so um now let me walk you through why i'm so excited about the future of tesla so first of all autonomy the team and i are laser focused on bringing robert taxi to austin india

Unsimplified autonomy will first be solved for the Model Y in Austin. And then, actually, we should parse out the terms robotic taxi or robotaxi and just generally, like, what's the cyber cab? Because we've got a product called the cyber cab. And then any Tesla, which could be an S3X or Y that is autonomous, is a robotic taxi or robotaxi.

It's very confusing. So the vast majority of the Tesla fleet that we've made is capable of being a robot taxi or robotic taxi. And as we're going from... Once we can make the whole system work where you can have paid rides fully autonomously with no one in the car in one city, that is a very scalable thing for us to go broadly within...

whatever jurisdiction allows us to operate. So because what we're solving for is a general solution to autonomy, not a city-specific solution for autonomy, once we make it work in a few cities, we can basically make it work in all cities in that legal jurisdiction. So once we can make it work in a few cities in America, we can make it work anywhere in America.

Once you commit work in a few cities in China, you can work anywhere in China, likewise in Europe, limited only by regulatory approvals. So this is the advantage of having a generalized solution using artificial intelligence and an AI chip that tells the design specifically for this purpose.

as opposed to very expensive sensors and high precision maps of a particular neighborhood where that neighborhood may change or often changes and then that cost stops working so a general solution instead of a specific solution um yeah and um we've got optimus um making good progress in optimus uh we expect to have um

thousands of optimist robots working in Tesla factories by the end of this year, and we expect to scale optimists up faster than any product I think in history to get to millions of units per year as soon as possible. I think I feel confident in getting to a million units per year in less than five years, maybe four years.

but you know 20 20 30 I feel confident in predicting a million Optimus units per year it might be 2029. so let's see with respect to energy our energy business is doing very well um the mega pack is uh enables um utility companies to output far more total energy than would otherwise be the case um when you think of the the energy capability of the bread it's much it's much more than

It takes a total energy output per year. If the power plants could operate at peak power for all 24 hours, as opposed to being at half power, sometimes a quarter power at night, then you could double the energy output of existing power plants. But in order to do that, you need to buffer the energy so that you can charge up something like battery pack at night and then discharge into the grid during the day.

This is a massive unlock on total energy output of any given grid over the course of a year. And utility companies are beginning to realize this and are buying in our mega packs in scale. So at this point, a gigawatt class battery is quite a common thing. So many orders in the hopper will gigawatt and beyond batteries.

And we expect the stationary energy storage business to scale ultimately to terawatts per year. So very, very good numbers. Now, first quarters of a year are usually pretty tricky because it's usually the worst quarter of the year because people don't want to go buy a car in the middle of winter during a blizzard.

So we picked Q1 as a good quarter to do a cutover to the new version of the Model Y. And we changed production of the world's best-selling cars. It's worth remembering that Model Y is the best-selling car of any kind on Earth, with a 1.1 billion unit per year output of a single model. And we did this changeover at the same time.

in factories all across the world. So congratulations to the Tesla team on an amazing job in pulling off what is a very difficult transition. So yeah, it's really, that was very impressive work. So in conclusion, while there are many near-term headwinds for us in the broader industry, the future for Tesla is brighter than ever. The value of the company is delivering sustainable abundance with our affordable AI powered robots.

So, I like this phrase, "sustainable abundance for all." If you say, like, what's the ideal future that you can imagine? That's what you'd want. You'd want abundance for all in a way that's sustainable, that's good for the environment. Basically, this is the happy future. If you say, what's the happiest future you can imagine? One which is, that would be a future where there's sustainable abundance for all. Closest thing to heaven we can get on earth, basically.

So thank you again to the Tesla team for all their efforts at this challenging time. I look forward to continuing to lead the team to great success in the future. Great. Thank you very much, Elon. Before we move on, Bob has some opening remarks as well. Thanks, Elon.

As Elon mentioned in Q1, we achieved something which has never been undertaken in the automotive industry of updating all our factories for the best selling car in the world all at the same time. And this is, people don't understand, this was not a small feat. We're not aware of anybody else being able to do the best selling car all at once within a quarter and that too hitting all the timelines which we had established at the beginning.

So, we bring kudos to the team for making this happen. Additionally, we also hit a record gross profit for energy storage business in the quarter. Now, getting back into the business, there's been a lot of speculation as to the reasons for decline of our vehicle deliveries in the first quarter. We had previously guided that we will be updating all factories, and this will lead to several weeks of lost production, which did happen as planned.

The ripple effect of the change is not having enough new Model Y available in most markets for people to see and experience during the last few weeks of the quarter.

Additionally, the negative impact of vandalism and unwarranted hostility towards our brand and our people had an impact in certain markets. Despite this, we were able to sell out Legacy Model Y in the US, China, and a few other markets within the world. And again, just so people understand, we were producing the Legacy Model Y till middle to end of February.

and we switched over and we were able to still sell out within that period. So again, big achievement by all the people at Tesla to make it happen. We have a very extremely competitive vehicle lineup, which with most vehicles going through a recent update. And add to that, if it wants an FSD, you have a personal chauffeur, which can take you almost anywhere under supervision.

There are numerous stories shared by customers ranging from how it has improved their daily commute to providing mobility to customers with disabilities, to giving older customers the ability to travel comfortably and independently. Not only is FSD supervised safer than a human driver, but it is also improving the lives of individuals who experience it. And again, this is something you have to experience and anybody who has experienced

just knows it. And we've been doing a lot lately to try and get those stories out, at least on X, so that people can see how other people have benefited from this. Now, coming into some of the financial stuff, auto margins declined sequentially, primarily due to the reduction in the total number of deliveries, lower fixed cost absorption due to factory changeover,

and lower regulatory credit revenues offset by a slight increase in pricing due to the launch of new Model Y despite incentives which we had to sell legacy Model Y. Our energy storage business, like I said before, has achieved yet another milestone of great highest gross profit in a quarter. This was despite sequential decline in deployments. The importance of this business, as Elon mentioned,

pretty profound, especially in this environment because in order for a grid to work properly with the demands from AI and all this, you need some more stability. This is by far the simplest and best solution which we are aware of, which can help do this. We've also developed certain unique solutions to help our customers to achieve this.

Additionally, on the Powerwall side, we've been selling the new Powerwall 3, and it's been received with very good reception from customers and to the extent that we are currently supply constrained. On services and other margins, they were slightly down sequentially, primarily because of the pressure on our used car business and insurance business.

Note that we continue our journey to improve profitability in our services and coalition business through better labor productivity. As previously discussed, our operating expenses continue to increase sequentially, primarily due to our AI-related initiatives, including Optimus. It also costs the development for our vehicle programs, including CyberGap, Sema, and cheaper models. These expenses flow through R&D.

We believe even in the current environment, it is the right strategy making investments in these areas, position us for the long term. These increases were offset by decreases in SG&A from changes in our MoEcoLeftflow program. Other income reduced significantly on a sequential basis,

The primary reason was Bitcoin mark-to-market loss in Q1 versus gain in Q4, resulting in a $472 million drop. The remainder of the change is because of FX reimbursement. With the adoption of the new mark-to-market standard for Bitcoin, we expect increased volatility in other income in addition to the FX reputability.

I know tariffs is the hottest topic which people talk about and it has various impacts to our business. As Elon mentioned, on the vehicle business, we've been on this journey of regionalization for years. Specifically in the US, Model Y has been rated the most American model made car on Car Start Com, Made in America Index, three years in a row.

This is part of all the work which the team has been doing over the years. And to the extent that today, if you look at our vehicle lineup in the U.S., we're approximately on a weighted average basis 85% USMCA compliant. So like Elon said, this definitely gives us a bigger edge as compared to our other OEMs in terms of managing the tariffs. But we're not immune because we're

When the Section 232 Autotest becomes effective in May, which includes Canada and Mexico, and Canada and Mexico has been part of our regionalization study, they will have an impact on profitability. And I know research modeling on this impact has been up about a couple of thousand, which is pretty much in line with what we've been forecasting.

The impact of tariffs on the energy business will be outsized since we source LFP battery cells from China. We're in the process of commissioning equipment for the local manufacturing of LFP battery cells in the U.S. However, the equipment which we have can only service a fraction of our total install capacity at Latrobe. We've also been working on securing additional supply chain from non-China-based suppliers, but it will take time.

Also note that, you know, mega factory, irrespective of all the impact on U.S. from our energy, from tariffs on the energy business, we do have a mega factory in China, which just started operations at Q1. And that should take care of our business outside of U.S.

There's also an important impact of tariffs on our capital investments. I know this is going to sound counterintuitive since in order to own onshore manufacturing or expand lines, we have to bring equipment from outside the US because there is not that much capacity in the US. And the current trade environment, you know, such equipment being brought in is subjective. The expense is bringing it in from China right now. Exactly.

And the reality is that China has the basic one which has the most capacity to provide this. Our capex guidance inclusive of modern tariffs, even with the optimization we have tried to do, it is forecasted to be still in excess of 10 billion this year. We're still evaluating what more to do on this side. To summarize, we have near-term challenges in our business due to tariffs and bad image.

We think our strategy of providing the best product at a competitive price is going to be a winner, and this is the reason we're still focused on bringing cheaper models to market soon. The start of production is still planned for June. Additionally, the advancement in FSD-related features, including pilot Robotaxi launch in Austin later this year, should help create a new era of demand. I would like to thank everyone at Tesla and our customers.

Fantastic. Thank you very much, Shabab. Now we will move on to investor questions. We will start with questions from say.com. First question is, what are the highest risk items on the critical path to RoboTaxi launch and scaling? Is that Shouk? Yeah, we've got a Shouk on. Sure. Well, just to make sure, we'll just start by the...

just disambiguate the cyber cap from robo taxi once again um so uh the when will the teslas because the teslas that will be fully autonomous in june in uh austin are probably model wise um so that is um that's currently on track uh to be able to do paid rides fully autonomously in austin in june

and then to be in many other cities in the US by the end of this year. It's very difficult to predict the exact ramp sort of week by week, month by month, except that it will ramp up very quickly. So it's going to be like some, basically an S-curve, where it's very difficult to predict the intermediate slope of the S-curve, but you kind of know where the S-curve is going to end up, which is the vast majority of the Tesla fleet being autonomous. So

That's why I feel confident in predicting large-scale autonomy around the middle of next year, certainly the second half of next year, meaning I predict that there will be millions of Teslas operating fully autonomously in the second half of next year. It does seem increasingly likely that there will be a localized parameter set, perhaps sort of

you know, especially for places that have, say, very snowy weather, like, say, if you're in the northeast or something like this, you can think of it, it's kind of like a human. Like, you know, you could be a very good driver in California, but are you going to be also a good driver in a blizzard in Manhattan? You're not going to be as good. So there is actually some value in

you're still drive but you're probably of an accident is higher so this it's increasingly obvious that there's some value to um having um a localized set of parameters for uh different you know different regions and um and localities but this is the i put that in the nice to have category not it's not the required category uh again it's really the car is

It's just very much like the human. It's digital neural nets and cameras, and humans operate with biological neural nets and eyes. And so the same strengths and weaknesses will be present for a digital neural net and cameras versus a biological neural net and eyes. Ashok, if you'd like to elaborate on that.

yeah and speaking to the location specific models we still have a generalized approach and you can see that from uh you know deployment of fsd supervised in china where with this very minimal data that's like china specific the models generalize quite well to completely different driving styles uh that just like shows that the a based solution that we have is the right one uh because you know if you have gone down the previous

rule-based solutions or more hard-coded, SDMAP-based solutions. It would have taken many, many years to get China to work. You can see those in the videos that people post online themselves. The generalized solution that we are

pursuing is the right one that's going to scale well and you can think of this like location specific parameters that you don't need to ask a mixture of experts and if you're sort of familiar with the a models grok and others they all use this mixture of experts to sort of specialize the parameters to specific tasks while still being general this makes the um

the model to use limited amount of compute to solve for the diversity of tasks that it has to solve.

uh in terms of addressing the question that asked for you know what are the critical things i mean to get right uh one thing i'd like to notice validation uh self-driving is a long tail problem where there can be a lot of edge cases that only happen very very rarely currently we are driving around in austin using our qa fleet but then it's like super rare to get uh interventions uh that are critical for a vortexy operation uh and so you can go many days without getting any single intervention so you can't

easily know whether you are improving or regressing in your capacity. And we need to build out sophisticated simulations, including neural network-based video generation. That's all happening in the background to make sure that we deliver a safe product and we are able to measure our safety, even though we can't just exceed by driving around the block or something like that. In very basic terms, if we're seeing an accident,

every 10,000 miles, well, then you have to drive 10,000 miles on average before you get an accident or an intervention. So it's like, hmm, okay. And I imagine, I mean, we must be really, we must be very worked up by the sheer number of Teslas doing circuits in Austin right now. We're like, well, it's going to look pretty bizarre. Some people are chasing us away. Yeah.

Yeah. There's just always a convoy of Teslas going all over to Austin in circles. But yeah, I just can't emphasize this enough. In order to figure out these long-tail things, if it's one in 10,000, let's say it's one in 20,000 miles or one in 30, the average person drives 10,000 miles in a year. So now try to compress that test cycle into a matter of

you know, a few months, that means you need a lot of cars, doing a lot of driving in order to compress that reward. To do in a matter of a month what would normally take someone a year. I would just also add that, you know, if you haven't looked at those videos coming out of China,

People are really putting it to real test. I mean, they're taking it to dark roads. I think the Chinese consumer might be the most dramatic consumer. Actually, customers in China are awesome. They have a lot of fun with the cars. I saw one guy take a Tesla on a narrow dirt road across a mountain.

and i'm like still a very brave person and this is driving along off on the road with no barriers where if he makes a mistake he's going to plunge through his doom but it worked great thank you and if the question was on cybercap itself we're in b sample validation now yeah yeah we should ask that question too yeah we have uh our first

like big builds coming at the end of this quarter within Q2 and then in the coming months, they start to large scale installation of all the equipment in Giga Texas with still on schedule for production next year. - Yeah, and I just want to also clarify because I think people don't understand the thing that there's no new building being built and where is CyberCap going to go? - Oh, it's in the same factory. - Yeah, yeah.

It's happening and people don't know it's happening upstairs and along the lines while we're still building the Model Ys and Cybertrucks every day. Yeah, it's worth noting that the Tesla Gigafactory in Austin is three times the size of the Pentagon. Including the Garden. Yeah, including the Ground Zero Garden. So, you know, because of the Pentagon, like, Sputnik used to look big. But then he won't.

Great, thank you very much. The next question is, when will FSD unsupervised be available for personal use on personally owned cars? Before the end of this year. Not necessarily, within the US, like we do want to test, like at Tesla we're absolutely hardcore about safety. We go to great lengths to make the safest car in the world and have the lowest accidents per mile and

So, and look, if you're a slide lost, so we want to be very careful. So, and we want autonomy to be definitively safer than manual driving. So it's not enough that it just be as safe. It needs to be meaningfully safer than if it's for cars manually driven. So, and we want to confirm that there's not something, we just want to be cautious with the rollout. We don't want to,

jump in at the deep end with an army. So with that said, I think we should be able to have it work in several cities later this year for personal use. So, you know, the asset test being you should be able to, can you go to sleep in your car and wake up at your destination? And I'm confident that will be available in many cities in the U.S. by the end of this year.

Great. Thank you very much. The next question is, is Tesla still on track for releasing more affordable models this year, or will you be focusing on simplified versions to enhance affordability similar to the rear-wheel drive Cybertruck? Yeah, we're still planning to release models this year. As with all watches, we're working through the last-minute issues that pop up.

We're knocking them down one by one. At this point, I would say that ramp maybe might be a little slower than we had hoped initially, but there's nothing, you know, just kind of given that turmoil that exists in the industry right now. But there's nothing that's blocking us from starting production within the next, within the timeline we laid out in the opening remarks. And I will say it's important to emphasize that, as we've said all along, the full utilization of our factories is the primary goal for these new products.

And so flexibility of what we can do within the form factor and the design of it is really limited to what we can do on our existing lines rather than building new ones. But we've been targeting the low cost of ownership. Monthly payment is the biggest differentiator for our vehicles. And that's why we're focused on bringing these new models with the lowest price to the market within the constraints I just highlighted.

Thank you very much. The next question is, does Tesla see Roblo taxi as a winner take most market? And as you approach the Austin launch, how do you expect to compare against Waymo's offering, especially regarding pricing, geofencing and regulatory flexibility? Well, OK, the issue with with Waymo's cars is it cost way more money.

but that is the issue. Uh, you know, the cost is very expensive, made in low volume. Uh, Tesla's are, uh, you know, I don't know, probably costing a quarter or 20% of what a, what a, what a Waymo costs and, uh, and made in very high volume. Um, so, um,

Ironically, we're the ones that made the bet that a pure AI solution with cameras and audio, the car actually will listen for sirens and that kind of thing, is the right move. And Waymo decided that an expensive sensor suite was the way to go, even though Google's very good at AI. And it is worth noting that Tesla's built an incredible AI software team and AI hardware chip design team.

from scratch, from nothing, we didn't acquire anyone, we just built it. So yeah, it's really, I mean, I don't see anyone being able to compete with Tesla at present. I'm sure that'll change eventually, but at least as far as I'm aware, Tesla will have, I don't know, 99% market share or something ridiculous, 90 something percent, at least, I don't know, at least,

Some of them might change, but if we have millions of cars deployed next year, and unless others have millions of cars deployed, unless we're blocked by regulatory situations, it won't be long. I mean, in a few years, we'll have 10 million autonomous cars on the roads and counting.

The other thing which people forget is that we're not just developing the software solution, we're also manufacturing the cars. And like Waymo has, they're taking cars and then trying to put them on the road. We don't do that. So that definitely gives us a big leg up. And like Elon said, we only have a big existing fleet.

which hopefully with the software update could become autonomous. With the software update, it will become autonomous. To be clear, the Model Ys that we're talking about in being autonomous in Austin in June are the Model Ys we make currently. There's no change to it. I think people don't appreciate that the car which they can buy today or the car they have is capable of these kind of things.

In fact, it does drive autonomously from the factory to the end of line, every car. Yeah. The model-wise, everything. Right. Exactly. It is important to use it. It's doing useful work fully autonomously at the factories, as Ashok was mentioning. The cars drive themselves from end of line to where they're supposed to be picked up.

by a truck to be taken to the customer. And I'm confident also that later this year, the first Model Y will drive itself all the way to the customer. So from our factory in Austin and I want in here in Fremont, California, I'm confident that from both factories, we'll be able to drive directly to a customer from the factory. Cool delivery. Yeah, literally goes from the end of line and drives itself to your house.

It's important to note, in the factories, we don't have dedicated lanes or anything. People are coming in and out every day, trucks delivering supplies, parts, construction. And people can film it. By the way, you can see this from the road. It's uncovered. Exactly. In these videos, people take videos online. And anyone who wants to go see it can just drive past our remod factory and see the autonomous cars driving themselves. And they drive themselves and they put themselves in the exact right spot to be picked up. Yeah, the logistics yard is right there in the open. Yeah.

We don't move it again to another plane. But they go to a specific spot. Yeah. Yeah. So that's just a routine, like, everyday thing. Great. Thank you very much. The next question is, can you please provide an update on the unboxed method and how that is progressed? Sure.

It's progressing, absolutely. As I mentioned just a minute ago, it is the basis for our cybercat manufacturing process. It's really what we changed in order to allow the low cost of production and also get the super high levels of automation. You know, really, levels of automation that are sort of unheard of in the vehicle manufacturing scale. This is not something that, you know, when you see it be produced, you'll think of in terms of like, wow, that's how the car has been built for 100 years. It's really something we've changed.

In the past year, we've been focusing on a lot of key development areas, like marrying these large sub-assemblies together in a precise way, in an accurate way. We've also de-risked things like corrosion of uncoated aluminum structures, the sealing across the seams of the vehicle, and when you marry the assemble components. And we've even done early crash testing and proven that it's going to be just as safe as a real car built. And so we're

With all that combined, we go into the builds that we have at the end of this quarter for the CyberCAD product. That's the next real big test of full-scale integration of the unbox process. That's where we are. You'll see them in testing on the test roads in a couple of months. Although the line won't be at this rate initially, the

This is a revolutionary production system. I'm not sure what the right word is. Unboxing sounds like something like when you get your phone. You open it up. Yeah. You have a pleasant experience when you take your phone out of the box, which of course is nice, but this is much more revolutionary than that. This is a very profound reimagining of how to make cars in the first place. No car is made like this anywhere in the world.

The factory is the product as much as the car is the product. So it's really just the first principles approach to manufacturing that will ultimately allow us, I think, to achieve a cycle time, meaning a unit every five seconds or less of a single line.

And we want to incorporate some of these for testing into our existing production lines as well to provide us with a line cyber track already. This is something I've been thinking about for a long time. I've been thinking about this for a long time. It's not a crazy thing. Like a car every five seconds may sound like it's coming out like bullets, but actually it's coming out at walking speed. It's like a meter a second. A meter a second. So...

We're still far away from caring about the aerodynamic drag of the manufacturing line. You know, because you're still at three miles an hour. You know, every five seconds sounds crazy, but it's three miles an hour. So, yeah, you can run away from it, basically. But that's still by far the fastest line on Earth.

you know and it's like half hour many half what it might look like what's like progressing a lot i don't know if it's like about sharing high phase two and that's awesome 33 seconds yes we're the fastest right i think so we think we think we're the fastest uh at 33 seconds in our sharing my factory but but this this would be you know six times faster or seven times faster their mouths so um

Yeah, I mean, it'll be slower than that at first, but the point is that when you fully optimize the design and operation of the next generation factory that we're building right now, a five second cycle time or less is the design is capable of it. When you go through a radical new architecture, you go from being an A, I mean, it's like probably...

China in particular is an A+ on a moderately, you know, an advanced but still traditional car production system. They're really doing about as good as possible to do in a conventional scenario. So trying to get much below, you know, below like 30 seconds is extremely difficult.

And you start getting into sort of impossible where you just, you have to be faster than a human could possibly move. So then the autonomous line, it really just needs to be robots moving really fast. And that's where you get to some five seconds. But we'll sort of look at getting a C in, instead of an A getting a C in a new architecture,

But then the potential is there over time to move that up to an A+ within an A+ architecture. Great, thank you very much. The next question is: How is Tesla positioning itself to flexibly adapt to global economic risks in the form of terrorist political biases, etc.?

as elon said you know we've been surprising team for a while uh we continue to mitigate global economic risks like tariffs and political biases by regionalizing parts supply near its factories in north america berlin and shanghai for example in north america our high volume vehicle programs have over 85 percent north america content and shanghai vehicles have over 95 percent local content

Learn as similar levels of regionalization as North America when you exclude the battery and we are working on regionalizing the battery as well. This is a pre-pandemic strategy that we accelerated post-pandemic through supply diversification, dual sourcing, vertical integration, advanced analytics, and local partnerships to ensure supply chain resilience and production stability.

Having said that, we are not 100% insulated and these tariffs are higher on our low volume platforms than the high volume ones. Yeah. In fact, there's no more vertically integrated car company than Tesla. I mean, we're taking most vertically integrated car companies since Henry Ford back in the day when they were doing mining iron and stuff and growing rubber trees.

We're not growing rubber trees and mining iron yet, but we have built a lithium refinery in South Texas. It's the biggest lithium refinery outside of China, I think. Is that right?

Yeah, I think so. But it's output potential would be the biggest one thing refinery has. And we've got space to expand it if we need to build more. Right. And then we've got the cathode refinery in Austin next to the gigafactory. We're going to figure out what to do about the anode. This is an ongoing subject of discussion. The best of all possible worlds would be figuring out how to have no anode.

uh this part being no part that's that's the dream of the lithium batteries to be anode um but either way we we better have the anode the cathode and the lithium and the electrolytes the separator uh to make a cell um but you know there's no other car company that is building lithium refineries and cathode refineries uh we're ridiculously vertically integrated um

And that's our best position to protect against supply chain disruptions. Yeah. Thanks. Laurie, do you want to talk about progress in the front? Yeah. Certainly, in our cells, we've multi-sourced every component. We have every part coming from at least two different countries, which is...

and that we started this the supply chain team and the engineering team worked together on this for the last couple of years to put that together it's not something we did in a couple of months you know this is years of work um so we're you know we're in a good position to to um take advantage of that and the the insourcing of lithium and cathode they're the two most critical parts of the battery that's you know right in our backyard and we're totally insulated from um well it needs to be in operation

a day to be an operation we also make our own cells by the way so cell production if you took you have to there's this you know this you make the end of the cathode the lithium the electrolyte separator the can and then you got to put all that together in the cell factory um

There are entire companies that all they do is produce cells, but they don't do the other stuff. They don't refine lithium or decafode. So our cell production is going quite well and I think we're currently the lowest cost per kilowatt hour in the US. For all the cells we purchase in North America.

yeah so it's almost all the cost to us yeah so we have the lowest cost per kilowatt hour all things considered uh so the tesla cell is the most competitive cell um yeah for a kilowatt hour according to a car if it's a tesla cell it's low lower cost than it's a supplier so yeah yeah and the planet series to really build off that base you know getting to lowest cost is

It's the hardest challenge for so many. It's relatively easy to build a flashy product that does one thing well. To build something at high volume and low cost is super difficult, and we're kind of using that as a base to then build off and add performance in different areas for new products coming out. This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

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Yeah. So, um, yeah, to Elon's point, there's a, there's a lot of advantages for regionalization. You know, the most important thing is we're not trying to work in capital for six to eight weeks on the ocean. If there's a design change, then everything that's in transit basically has to be scrapped.

Secondly, port disruptions, as we saw during COVID, can be very expensive because slight disconnects can shut down production. So then your only option is costly air expediting. It also gives us resilience in supply chain. If one region is down, we can bridge with others. It's more of a setup in the beginning, but it's critical to have when the need arises.

Having said that, it's unrealistic to zero 100% regionalization across the board for specialized areas such as semiconductors. In such cases, our team works very closely with our partners to ensure we have strategic banks in place and a disruption doesn't impact production while we stand up the regional manufacturing for that particular commodity.

And I'll say like on the rest of the vehicle, like you were talking about with cells, we're also heavily vertically integrated and important. It's, you know, in terms of the testings, we recycle those and melt them. It's the same thing with plastics, but it doesn't mean we're not exposed.

We do have some areas where we use rare earth magnets, and we've been working for years to find alternative sources and bring those up, as well as we have our induction machines. And as we've mentioned in the past, we're working on ferrite levers for some time. So as Karin said, with our heavy regionalization percentages, we're definitely the lowest exposed to this, but we're not completely immune, as Paival mentioned in his opening remarks. Great.

Is it similarly related on the battery? Does Tesla step up battery supply constraint as noted on the Q4 call and does that change tariffs? So this is Karin. We've been working very hard to expand battery cell production in the US both with vendors and what Bonnie mentioned earlier with the 4680 program. And we're also working on moving the upstream supply chain for battery cells to the United States for several years.

And that strategy is really starting to pay off now. As it stands right now, we're not constrained when batteries sell supply for vehicles. The recent tariffs do pose some challenges to Tesla Energy, like our CFO mentioned earlier, but it's something we've been anticipating and we should be able to resolve in a timely fashion. We actually have a plan in place and we're executing towards it. We also have some other sources coming online to supplement the shortfall. And then, of course, we have the LFV production that's happening in-house.

We have a slight disconnect of aligning the right cells with the right path. So that's the little bit of puzzle that we have to solve internally. But as far as cells go, there's no shortage. Great. Thank you very much. The next question is, did Tesla experience any meaningful changes in order inflow rate in Q1 relating to all the rumors of brand damage?

So in Q1, as mentioned earlier, we took the best-selling car of the last two years and ramped up all four of our global factories. In less than eight weeks, we've already gone to the rate of our previous model-wise, the factories. So just kudos again to the team for the great job there. And despite the economic strain and negative articles in California in Q1, Tesla remained the best-selling car, not just EVs.

Additionally, we had a record number of test drives globally in Q1 as well. So interest remains high. And so right now, we continue to see good interest still in vehicles. Yeah. I mean, Tesla is very immune to sort of the macro demand for cars. So when there is economic uncertainty, people...

we generally want to pause on buying um doing a major capital purchase like a car but uh you know as far as absence macro issues we don't see uh any reduction in demand correct and that's where we continue to focus on affordability and you know it's fun to focus there yeah

Fantastic. Thank you, guys. The next question is regarding the Tesla Optimus pilot line. Could you confirm if it is currently operational? If so, what is the current production rate of Optimus bots per week? Additionally, how might the recent tariffs impact the scalability of this production line moving forward? Optimus is still very much a development program. It's not a large-filing production. That's why this year...

we'll make a few that, you know, we do expect to make thousands of Optimus robots, but most of that production is going to be at the end of the year. So, the

Almost everything in Optimus is new. There's not like an existing supply chain for the motors, gearboxes, electronics, actuators, really anything in the, almost anything in the Optimus, apart from the AI for Tesla, the Tesla AI computer, which is the same as the one in the car. So when you have a new

complex manufactured product, it'll move as fast as the slowest and least lucky component in the entire thing. And as a first-order approximation, there's like 10,000 unique things. So that's why anyone who tells you they can predict with precision the production ramp of the truly new product doesn't know what they're talking about. It is literally impossible. So you go through this like

series of constraints where it's like this part's the limiting factor, now that part's the limiting factor, now this part's the limiting factor and multiply that by a thousand basically. And then the rate of the production is decided by how quickly you can solve each of those problems. Optimus was affected by

by the magnet issue from China because the Optimus actuators in the arm do use permanent magnets. Now, Tesla as a whole does not need to use permanent magnets, but when something is volume constrained, like an arm of the robot,

then you want to try to make the motors as small as possible. So we did design in permanent magnets for those motors, and those were affected by the supply chain, by basically China requiring an export license to send out any rare earth magnets. So we're working through that with China. Hopefully we'll get a license to use the rare earth magnets.

China wants some assurances that these are not used for military purposes, which obviously they're not. They're just going into a humanoid robot. So it's not a weapon system. But that is an example of a challenge there. But I'm confident we'll overcome these issues. And we'll, by the end of this year, have thousands of autonomous robots. Great.

Thank you very much. And the last question we already covered earlier, whether Robotaxi was still on track for this year. So with that, we can move on to analyst questions. The first question is going to come from Pierre at Newstreet. Pierre, please unmute yourself. Hey, guys. Can you hear me? Yeah. That's great. So I'm super excited to hear Robotaxi and Optimus becoming the very tangible future of our Tesla. But I have actually a question on the

on the legacy, not the legacy, but the current auto business. And when I look back at the ramp of Model 3 a few years ago, I really saw it as being the iPhone of cars, a new product, completely reinvented, very different user experience, vastly superior, impossible to match for traditional competitors.

And for the iPhone, it resulted in the high end of the smartphone market quadrupling in size and actually Apple taking 60% market share. And so when you look at the Model 3 and the Model Y today, I think they are still like really vastly superior to any other cars. And I wonder why they've taken about 15% share.

of the addressable market and not more actually. So another way to put it is why are there so many people still buying BMWs and Mercedes knowing that the Model 3 and the Model Y are out there and available? And I wonder if you're trying to solve that riddle internally, if you understand why

you know, what are these auto buyers who are not buying a Model 3 or a Model Y missing? And if you have ideas of things you could do to address that, maybe there is enormous value left on the table there. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering these days. Yeah, the reality is that in the future, most people are not going to buy cars. So it's kind of, you know, one could sort of say, look, if you want to change

continue with your phone metaphor. I mean, you can remember the days of the flip phones when there was, you know, a hundred different flip phone designs. And I would, you know, the mistake that manufacturers made was to try to make many different variants of a flip phone, which was a mistake. They should have made the iPhone. So, because obviously everyone's going to want a smartphone. But in the beginning of the, when,

The iPhone came out and I was like, "Wow, I can't believe these guys are reacting as though this is death." But they didn't. They kept making DeBrayerian flip phones. Nokia, I think at one point, was the most valuable company in the world, or close to it. But they kept making flip phones, trying to find another market niche. Maybe somebody wants a phone of a different style, maybe this different color, or whatever it is. Nope, they just want a super intelligent phone.

I can do everything. Just one. So, I said this many years ago, in the future, in the not too distant future, buying a gasoline car that is not autonomous will be like riding a horse while using a flip phone. Some people still do it, but it's rare. Great. Thank you. The next question comes from Emmanuel Rosner at Wolf. Emmanuel, please unmute yourself.

Great. Thanks for taking my question. So, Ilan, the public version of the FSD software still has a decent amount of, I guess, intermittent human interventions that are required. So what's still required for the software on your end to get to a level where it doesn't need to be supervised? And I'm asking that in the context of, obviously, the June launch being in the next couple of months. What still needs to happen?

And we are working on a number of items too. Yeah, go ahead, Joshua. Yeah. I mean, we are aware of the interventions that are happening in the public business, and that's why we are hardcore burning it down.

Really just picking some initial launch city helps us focus on solving all the issues that you'd face here. For example, if it's focusing on Austin, we're not solving all the issues that customers in Boston or somewhere else might face. Then here, we just have a big list of all the issues, just burn it down, and that's what the team is working on, along with other redundancy issues. For example, if

One of the computers goes down, right down the customer fleet, it would like throw the red hands and ask you to take over, but we don't want that kind of situation. So you're solving both like the reliability issues of the autonomy software and also the reliability issues of the system software together for Austin. Yeah, it really just, we just worked through a long tale of unusual interventions. So, and these are really very, like as a single item,

If you have an intervention every 10,000 miles, I mean, that's a lot of driving you've got to do to even find one case within Athens. Yeah, and some interventions are happening due to systematic missing functionality. For example, for handling emergency vehicles correctly, you don't need to consume audio as an input. But then the customer-facing versions don't have audio input, but the version that's going to be in Austin will have audio input and so on. Okay, but would you have remote operators, for example?

Every now and then, if a car gets stuck or something, someone will unblock it. But it's just because we are a bit conservative and tend towards more safety than even if we get stuck every now and then, we do have remote support. But it's not going to be required for safe operation. If anything, it's just required for more availability. Anyway, it's only a couple of months away. So you can just save for yourself in a couple of months in Austin.

great um our next question comes from edison at deutsche bank and simply submit yourself hi uh thank you very much for the question so i want to ask about the the optimist supply chain going forward um you know you mentioned you know very fast ramp up what do you envision that supply chain looking like is it going to require many more suppliers to be in the us now because of the tariffs

How does one kind of think about what needs to happen there? We have to see how things settle out. I don't know yet. I mean, some things we're doing, as we've already talked about, which is that we're already taking tremendous steps to localize our supply chain. We're more localized than any other manufacturer. And we have a lot of things underway to increase the localization to reduce supply chain risk associated with geopolitical uncertainty.

Did you have a follow-up? Yeah. I wanted to come back actually to the robo-taxi then. Do you have a sense on how many cars or how big the scale will be initially and how that might ramp up? I know you're targeting millions of vehicles in the second half of next year. But initially at launch, how many vehicles would be reasonable? And is it going to be as simple as if one goes to Austin, let's say in late June or July, you'll be able to request vehicles?

We're still debating the exact number to start with on day one, but it's, I don't know, maybe 10 or 20 vehicles on day one. And watch it carefully. They scale it up rapidly after that. So, you know, we want to make sure that you're paying very close attention the first time this happens. But, yeah, you'll be able to, at the end of June or July, just go to Washington and order a Tesla or autonomous drive. Great. The next question comes from George at Canaccord.

Hi, thank you for taking my question. It has to do with FSD pricing. Can we envision when you launch unsupervised FSD that there could be sort of a multi-tiered pricing approach to unsupervised versus supervised similar to what you did with autopilot versus FSD in the past? Thank you. I mean, this is something which we've been thinking about. I mean, just so you know, for people who have been trying FSD and who've been using FSD,

They think even the current pricing is too cheap because for 99 bucks, you're basically getting a personal show. Yeah. I mean, we do need to give people more time to, if they want to look at, like a key break point is,

Can you read your text messages or not? Yes. Can you write a text message or not? Because obviously people are doing this, by the way, with unautonomous cars all the time. And if you just go for a drive down the highway and you'll see people texting while driving, you know, doing 80 miles an hour. And putting their makeup on at the same time. Yeah. Putting on makeup, doing their hair with the mirror down and texting and driving at 80 miles an hour. This is a common occurrence.

So, people eating lunch, you name it. Shaving, you know. So, anyway, but right now the car is very consistent that you pay attention to the road, which reduces the value somewhat because it's very rigorous about you paying attention to the road. And we'll gradually lighten up on that with, you know,

every every few weeks or every month we'll relax that a little bit make up um so you can be more and more um able to do things you want to do and not have the car to manage your range of attention so so that that value it'll really be profound when you can basically do whatever you want um just including sleep or and and then that 99 is going to seem like the best 99 you've ever spent in your life great and george do you follow up

My follow-up is about geographic expansion. Just maybe discuss additional markets. There's been some news around India recently that you could launch this year and next. Thank you. So, yeah, I mean, we've been working on getting into India. India is a very hot market, and especially the current, and I don't want to

talk just about tariffs but the current tariff structure within India is that any car which we send in is subject to 70% tariff also like a 30% tariff

you know, luxury tax on it. So, you know, the same car which we were sending is like 100% more expensive than what it is. So that creates a lot of, you know, anxiety. It's like, you know, people feel, okay, they're paying too much for the car. And by the way, we're not getting the money. The local government is getting the money. And that's why we've been very careful trying to figure out when is the right time to

Like I said, we are working on it. It would be a great market to enter because India has a big middle class, which we would want to tap in, and that is the market which we want to be in. But again, these kind of things create a little bit of tension, which we're trying to work around. Great. Thank you so much. The next question comes from Adam Jonas at Morgan Stanley. Okay.

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We can't hear you, Adam, so maybe we'll put you back in the queue and we'll move to Colin Langan from Wells Fargo while Adam figures out his audio. Colin, please unmute yourself. Oh, great. Do you hear me? Yes. Oh, great. You know, you're still sticking with the vision-only approach. A lot of autonomous people still have a lot of concerns about, you know, sun glare, fog and dust.

Any color on how you anticipate on getting around those issues? Because my understanding, it kind of blinds the camera when you get glare and stuff. Actually, it does not blind the camera. We use an approach which is direct photon count. So when you see a processed image, so the image that goes from the sort of photon counter

the silicon photon counter that goes through a digital signal processor or image signal processor. That's normally what happens. And then the image that you see looks all washed out because if you point the camera at the sun, the post-processing of the photon counting washes things out. It actually adds noise. So

Part of the breakthrough that we made some time ago was to go with direct photon counting and bypass the image signal processor. And then you can drive pretty much straight at the sun, and you can also see in what appears to be the blackest of night. And then here in fog, we can see as well as people can. Probably better, but I'd say probably slightly better than people, than the average person anyway. And

So the camera is able to see when there's direct glare on it. I'm a little surprised by that. Yeah. Okay. And then just, there were obviously media reports the other day that the affordable model was delayed. It doesn't sound like that's correct. Those reports also talked about it being more of a cheaper version of the Model Y. Any color on what we should expect, is it a cheaper version of the Model Y or is it actually going to be a design change with it?

So I think Lars already covered it in answering one of the say.com questions. The real thing which we are trying to focus on is affordability and using our existing lines. And there's always limitations when you're using existing lines as to how many different form factors can you bring to. So that's the way I would say you should think about it. And I don't know if Lars, anything more to add? Yeah, I think I said this before in other calls, like,

With the recent upgrades to the Model 3 and the worldwide platforms, we made some pretty great cars at pretty great prices. And we added a bunch of features and things like that. I think it's easy to consider that moving forward, Tesla doesn't make bad cars. Our intent is not to make a car that is any worse than any car we've ever produced in the past.

you know models that come out in the next months will will be built on our lines and will resemble in form and shape the cars we currently make and you know the key is that they'll be affordable and you'll be able to buy one uh we might have time for one last question adam we'll try your audio again um you want to try to unmute yourself adam all right unfortunately still not working um all right oh there you go all right guys

technology um go ahead um yeah hi yeah in the February 28th Joe Rogan interview Elon you advocated for a ramp in tariffs uh to give people time to adjust otherwise if a quote you said the system would break uh and bad things would happen so are things breaking yet and if the announced as if the tariff has announced remain in place when would things start breaking

Well, at the risk of stating the obvious, I'm not, I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm one of many advisors to the president. I'm not the president. So, um, and, uh, but I, you know, I've laid my opinion clear to the president and, um, that, uh, you know, and, and other people made their opinion clear to the president. He is there, he listened, he talks to many people and he makes his decision. And, um,

you know i'm hopeful that the president will observe whether my predictions are more accurate than the predictions of others and perhaps where my advice um differently in the future we shall see um but uh you know i i i'm an advocate of um you know predictable tariff structures and and generally i'm an advocate for um you know pre-trade and lower tariffs uh now one does need to take a look at um

where if some country is doing something predatory with tariffs or is providing extreme support for, if a government is providing extreme financial support for a particular industry, then you have to do something to counteract that. But I think that that's on a case-by-case basis strategically. But the president is the elected representative of the people and has

within his rights to do what he would like to do. Okay, Elon. I respect that. Just as a follow-up, and thanks again, between China and the United States, who, in your opinion, is further ahead on the development of physical AI, specifically on humanoids?

uh and and also drones i'd be interested in and is it even close and kind of how i yeah serious uh well i think you know the answer uh i mean yeah um you know um a friend of mine nabal made this you know posted on x i reposted it um i think a prophetic statement which is any country that cannot manufacture its own drones is doomed to be the vassal state of any country that can

and we can't america cannot currently manufacture its own drones but that's again unfortunately um so china i believe manufactures about 70 percent of all drugs and if you look at the total supply chain china is almost 100 almost 100 percent of drones are have a supply chain dependency on china so china is in a very strong position um and um here in america and we need to shift more of our people and resources to manufacturing

Because this is, you know, I have a lot of respect for China, because I think China is amazing, actually. But the United States should not have such a severe dependency on China for drones and be unable to make them unless China gives us the parts, which is currently the situation. You know, with respect to humanoid robots, I don't think there's any company in any country that can match Tesla.

Tesla and SpaceX are number one. So, and then now I'm a little concerned that on the leaderboard ranks two through 10 will be Chinese companies. But I'm confident that rank one will be Tesla. Well, I think that's unfortunately all the time we have for today. We appreciate all your questions and look forward to talking to you next quarter. Thank you very much and goodbye. Did you catch that? What Trump said about Elon?

And it's telling the kind of person that Trump thinks Elon is now. And I'm not taking a side here. I am more in favor of doing the right thing and being nice to people than I am about anything else. And something is telling about the way that Donald Trump just kind of blows off Elon in this clip. And I would say that about anybody. I'm not for or against anything. I just know what I hear, right? And if you didn't hear that,

They'd go back, rewind a little bit, check it out. Notice how he kind of just like brushed Elon off as one of those people that like, I don't really need the guy. He just came in here and did this thing and that's cool. You know, like that's kind of how we, how we worded it. But yeah, let me, let me know what you think of the comments. Let me know how you feel about this because I,

I'm here to have a conversation with you and we are also a community here. And if you want to join our community for further discussion, we have a discord. I'm going to leave it in the description down below. So thank you so much for listening today. I appreciate your time and I appreciate you spending it here with me on stage zero, Elon Musk podcast, take care of yourselves and each other. And I will see you in the next one.