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cover of episode Is a US fiscal crisis ahead?

Is a US fiscal crisis ahead?

2025/6/18
logo of podcast Goldman Sachs Exchanges

Goldman Sachs Exchanges

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Ken Rogoff
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Niall Ferguson
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Ken Rogoff: 我认为全球长期实际利率已经上升并正常化,长期债券利率将持续攀升,不太可能回到疫情前的水平。多种因素导致利率上升,包括全球债务增加、地缘政治不确定性、能源需求以及军备竞赛。利率上升对所有市场都有影响,尤其是对那些习惯于不偿还债务反而不断增加债务的国家,特别是美国。由于美国债务水平已经很高,所以对高利率更加敏感。我认为金融危机发生的速度比人们预期的更快、更猛烈。发达国家不太可能直接违约,但危机可能以通货膨胀的形式爆发,并伴随冲击。债券市场低估了通货膨胀的可能性。无论采取何种形式,目前的财政动态都不可持续。 Niall Ferguson: 我多年来一直警告说,美国正走在一条不可持续的财政道路上。强大的国家可以多次冒险,但最终市场情绪会转变。投资者已经开始减少对美国国债的持有,并减少对美元的依赖。美国用于偿还债务利息的支出超过了国防开支,这令人担忧。如果一个国家在利息支付上的花费超过国防,它可能无法长期保持超级大国地位。按照目前的趋势,未来美国在利息上的负担将是国防预算的两倍。美国需要面对现实,停止自欺欺人,要从历史中吸取教训。历史上,西班牙、荷兰、法国、奥斯曼帝国和奥匈帝国都曾因债务问题而衰落。美国可以摆脱财政困境,但这需要领导力和牺牲。为了维护国家安全,美国需要做出一些牺牲。威慑比实际开战更经济。如果美国不能威慑中国,那么它将面临战争或屈服的选择。

Deep Dive

Chapters
Experts Ken Rogoff and Neil Ferguson discuss the US's unsustainable fiscal path, marked by rising interest rates and increased debt, potentially leading to a crisis. They highlight the shift in investor sentiment and the geopolitical implications of the situation.
  • Rising global long-term real interest rates are a significant factor.
  • Higher interest payments on debt surpass defense spending.
  • The US's fiscal trajectory projects interest burden to double defense budget by 2040.

Shownotes Transcript

Concerns about the fiscal trajectory of the US are nothing new. But is this time different? And what could a fiscal crisis look like? Economist Kenneth Rogoff and historian Niall Ferguson discuss with Allison Nathan. This episode explores the latest Top of Mind report).

This episode was recorded on May 30, June 5, and June 17, 2025.

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