Episode 1609 - Mo Welch
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Final week or so of what is America and into whatever America will become. That's a layer of stress, at least for me and probably half of the people in the country. But I hope you're okay. And maybe even being happy. I don't know. I don't know from all that. Today on the show, I talked to Mo Welch.

She's a comic and cartoonist. Last year, she released the special Dad Jokes, which is part stand-up set, part documentary about meeting her estranged father for the first time in 20 years. The special is now on Hulu. She also co-hosts the podcast Sweethearts along with Beth Stelling. And we talk a bit about the experience that we're living through. But I do know that out here, it's very trying and still quite awful to

and harrowing in not only the possibility of more fires, but just the horrendous loss of so many people here. It's almost unfathomable. I've talked to a lot of people, a lot of people that know people that lost everything, a few people that have lost everything. I try to help where I can. We'll continue to do that.

And I'm grateful. I'm lucky. I'm okay. I'm safe. My house is fine. It's still scary, but I'm okay. And my heart goes out to everybody that has experienced tremendous loss here because this affects everyone. You know, obviously the people that lost everything, it's profoundly affected and destroyed their lives. But for everybody else here, it's a very interesting story.

thing about what do you want? What do you want to call it? Catastrophe, overwhelming environmental disaster, just anything where there's massive loss and a massive collective feeling of powerlessness in the face of what caused that loss. It's just fucking crazy. And look, I was, I was in New York on nine 11. I remember that day very clearly. How could you ever forget it?

I woke up that morning. I turned on my AOL homepage, showed one tower standing, and I didn't know what to make of it. I thought, is this a joke? Is this a gag? And I went up to my roof and I saw the smoke at the end of Manhattan. It was a crisp, clear day. Nothing was going on anywhere.

Everything had been grounded. No cars in the street, no planes in the air. And I went back down to my house and I turned on the TV and saw the second tower fall. And then I went back on the roof and I was like, oh, my fucking God. And in that moment where your brain is trying to understand or comprehend or wrap your perception around what is happening, that is when the massive trauma begins.

kind of sets in that moment of realization of like, fuck, nothing will ever be the same again. All those lives lost, Manhattan just incapacitated. It was fucking horrendous. And I stayed and my girlfriend at the time who had been getting off the train downtown, a few blocks from the towers, got out of the subway and was in a storm of ash, walked 40 blocks uptown,

packed her bags and left New York. Only came back to leave again. That's what got us out here. That's what got me to LA in the first place. I stayed for quite a bit longer, for months, maybe even close to a year. And she just left because she couldn't, she was totally incapacitated by the trauma of it. But I stayed and we performed a few weeks after and New York was just

Everywhere was plastered with the faces of missing people. People were walking in a state that was almost like an emotional zombie state. All you know is to sort of try to get back to your routines, but nobody was normal for years. And you could smell it for months and months. And, you know, emotions were high. And I felt some of that same energy here over the last few days.

kind of PTSD that happens almost immediately. The trauma happens and then you're walking in this zone of disbelief and sort of a kind of temporary emotional annihilation amidst all this destruction out here. And people who are unaffected by it directly, you know, they try to, you go on with your life, but it was menacing. See, I talked about what was going on on Monday and my feelings of anxiety

Concern and and sadness and fear and just the the the kind of emotional reaction is such tremendous loss on behalf of so many people and my thought is a natural thought was like, you know, it's it's time to get out.

And it's interesting why, you know, what you're going to do in your mind, if you're lucky enough to, at this point anyways, remain, you know, untouched physically or property wise, is to, you know, fight or flight. And, you know, all the logic in terms of, sure, you know, I love Los Angeles as much as the next guy. I didn't grow up here, but I've certainly spent a lot of time here and I love my house and,

And there's a lot of great things about Southern California. But I got some, a couple of odd, not odd responses, but just from people who were like, you know, how could you just say you're going to leave? I mean, we got to rebuild better than ever. We got to fight for our city. You got to stay and fight the fight. Against what? Against what? What, are you going to fight the wind? You're going to fight the erratic wind? You're going to kind of like set a timeline for every year that these things might happen? Yeah.

How are you going to fight the wind? How are you going to fight the drought if nobody's going to get, you know, collectively hip to the fact that we might be past the point of no return with climate change? And so then it's just a matter of adapting. So, you know, this isn't going to get better. And so how many times a year do you see, you know, the weather app on your phone? It says, you know, gusts of wind. Are you going to be like, fuck this?

I got to get back on the fire app. I'm still on the fire app. There's no way to get off it now. You know, the last few days have been just horrible and they were forecasting 60 to 75 mile an hour winds. So then you just sit there and see if it gets close again and get ready. Get the cap boxes open. Get your go bags together. Make sure your kids know what's up. Just this tentative vibe of it's coming. It's coming. And these firefighters out here are fucking astounding.

Amazing fucking real goddamn heroes. These guys and gals, men and women, all of them from all around the world coming together to try to manage this thing. And neither one of these fires are even half contained fight or flight, man. You know, what's the fight? How do you win or how do you survive? I'm in Fort Collins, Colorado tomorrow at Lincoln center performance hall, and then Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder theater.

On the next day, Saturday, the 18th, I'll be in Santa Barbara, California at the Lobero Theater on Thursday, January 30th. Then San Luis Obispo, California at Fremont Center on Friday, January 31st. Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on Saturday, February 1st. Iowa City at the Ingler Theater on Thursday, February 13th. Des Moines, Iowa at the Hoyt Sherman Place on Friday, February 14th.

and Kansas City, Missouri at the Midland Theater on Saturday, February 15th. Then I'm in North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois, Michigan. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets. There will be more shows coming up. I'm planning on shooting an HBO special in New York City. That'll be coming up. I think I'm going to be getting some dates on the calendar in Vermont, Toronto, Michigan.

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for 50% off. Look, it's hard to be rational in something so catastrophic and seemingly so irrational. But yeah, I can't imagine, you know, the kind of menace of fear when you have children. I mean, I've got cats. I mean, and I think on some level, children are probably easier than cats. I mean, they'll do what you want them to do. They may cry, they may freak out, but they'll do what you want them to do. Cats are like, they don't give a fuck.

They don't know what you're worked up about. And these poor cats in the last few days, because I was on the edge and we thought these winds were coming and I was just, you know, waiting for a fire to hit close enough to where I got to go. I got to go again. I can't wait for the zone to change. And then like, I just start to think, you know, you sit there and you think like, well, look, okay, why don't you just go out to the desert for a few days until something levels off, you know, so you can feel better.

At least feel safe. And then I start to think like, well, then I got to, it's going to distress the cats. They got to box them up, put them in the car, sit in a hotel. They're going to be freaked out. No, just stay here and wait it out. And that's not sit here and wait and fight. You know, I'm not, I'm not going to, you know, don a firefighter's outfit and get out there, but there's some part of me that's willing to put my safety at risk. So my cats won't be uncomfortable. Yeah. That's a, that's a little crazy. Yeah.

Yeah, I got to get that in perspective. So sensitive to the animals, but they're okay. And for some reason, when I got up today, Sammy was sleeping in one of the crates, the one that I could barely get him into. Actually, he was easy. I threw him in the hamper. But today he's like, I don't know, maybe he wants to go. Maybe I should see that as a sign. I need help.

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Okay. All right. Do that. All right. Look, I had heard of Mo Welch and I, you know, I've, we have common friends. I've interviewed her friends. I watched her special. I thought it was kind of awesome to kind of track, you know, she's always had this propensity to do bad dad jokes, but she didn't really have a relationship with her dad for like 30 years. She decided, she decided to, to go find him.

And the special is half that, half stand-up. It's called Dad Jokes. It's streaming on Hulu, and this is me talking to Mo Welch. Did you split? Yeah, we went to the desert.

And for what? How long? We went for three nights. Well, it's terrible. I mean, it's terrible for everybody in the city right now, but my in-laws lost their house in the Palisades. So at that time, like when we were going to do the podcast, it was like, oh my God, we just lost our house. And then we're like, we're getting to the desert because it's like, it was just smoke that next morning.

So we're like, we can't have a kid. I mean, it smelled like a campfire. I was like, yeah, got a five year old. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, I split because I got three cats, so I got no kids and cats are harder to get out of a house than a fucking kid, you know? And, you know, I went, but now like, but the funny thing is if there's a silver lining at all, it's that, um, I only had one crate, uh,

And I had to, you know, improvise with a hamper and a box. And I go into Hollywood and I'm at the Hampton Inn and then that catches fire. And I'm like, you got to be fucking kidding me. But now I have three crates. And where would you, so would you go further this time if you're going to head out? Well, yeah, just because like, you know, now we got to sit here for three days and

Yeah.

Yeah. Vegas three cats. Yeah. I know. Well, that's the thing. But like, they'll be all right. Yeah. And if it's going to salvage my mental state or keep us safe, you know, fuck it. But I don't know. I'm crazy anyways. Like, I'm ready to evacuate anytime. Right. I mean, it does. Obviously, I mean, I've been here for like 12 years. And, you know, we've never seen anything like this. Of course not. Yeah. And it's just...

It's just like, because it's always, like I said before, it's like, yeah, I'm not sure where they are, but they seem to be up in the mountains. They're over there. Right. It was always kind of like... Out by Malibu, something like that. Yeah, well, that one was bad. But usually it was, yeah, it just, it's fucking crazy. Yeah. And I'm in some sort of, I'm on the trauma spectrum right now. Right. Are you? Yeah.

Oh my God, for sure. I mean, I think I just, I really am just like living, living through it right now. And then it's going to like, I'm all of a sudden going to all cry in like a few months. So your in-laws lost their house. Yeah. How are they doing? Terrible. I mean, it was their dream house. Obviously they're not, you know, my, they're from like Texas and Rhode Island. Yeah. That's interesting pairing. Yeah. Rhode Island. Yeah. My car got stolen once in Rhode Island. Yeah.

Yeah, I just perform there. And you know when you stay in cities and you're on the road and you're staying in the downtown and everyone's like, don't stay downtown. You don't want to stay downtown. You're like, this is where we're performing. Yeah, I can walk to the venue. So like half of the cities in America, I'm like, these are scary. Or just kind of like they've attempted...

To make it something. And then there's, it's just doesn't really take. Yeah. So, and now after COVID, it's just like all these new businesses that they thought would save downtown are gone. I was just in Sacramento Friday and it's a little, downtown there is a little weird. Right. And then I went to Napa and that's all weird. Sacramento, I feel like every time I go there, it's just staying in that hotel. Yeah.

There's like a hotel and you go from the hotel to the punchline or whatever. Well, that place across from the punchline, across from the mall, that condo hotel, it's the worst. Oh, I don't say, I think I just say that like a Hampton Inn sort of situation. Oh, that's good. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I started, you know, I lived up there for a couple of years and I do that punchline a lot and it was just, it just scarred me. I can't.

Like Sacramento is just, there's so many places, you know, from my comedy history where they're just, you know, they're triggering. They're just trauma sites. Yeah. Like how the fuck do you,

Did I ever work here when I was a kid, when I was like in my 20s? I'm like, how did I do that? I don't like you do. Like, I had a point where I'm just like, I don't care if I break even. I'm not staying in a disgusting place. I can't do it. No. Yeah. My back will hurt. I'm like, you never know when your back's going to hurt. Your back can hurt at a good place. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know, those beds. Who the fuck knows? I

I feel like I'm like Eloise of like Hampton Inns at this point. I used to love the Hampton Inns, you know, because it was like, you know, back when it was sort of more important. I'm like, yeah, I get breakfast. They've got enough plugs in the room.

I can plug all my shit in. Because sometimes you go to high-end hotels and they're like, they're not prepared for how much shit we have to plug in. Where the fuck's the plug? I know. So, like, yeah, there is a time when you're 20 doing stand-up where you're just so low maintenance. Oh, yeah. I just need a plug and breakfast. Yeah. Yeah.

And, you know, and then like you don't even rent a car and you're just sort of like every time you get put up by a club, you're like, there's nothing around here. You can't walk to anything. Before Uber, it was a nightmare. Just sad, you know, kind of middle-axe wandering the streets looking for a coffee shop. Yeah, it's so true. We're just sitting. We're not only looking for it. We're just like there for eight hours. Oh, yeah. Why not? Where's the cool place? All right, I'll sit there and eat two meals.

I always feel that when I go to Denver, because I'm like, okay, I'm going to rent a car. I'm going to go to one of... I'm going to go to a little... I'm going to go to Steamboat or go look at... Sure. No, I'm just in that comedy condo with the inflatable clown. I never stayed at that place. I love that condo, actually. Well, that's what people always say. They're like, well, that's one of the good ones. That club is pretty good, though. I'm going back. I'm going... I'd never done the...

The suburban one. Oh, yeah, south. Yeah, I always went downtown because I was always scared of like, you know, you didn't go to the one out in the suburbs. That doesn't sound good, but it's fucking great. It is, yeah. It's crazy that she has somehow managed to make two rooms that are awesome for comics. It's incredible. I started in Denver. You did? So, yeah, I used to do the...

phone line. Really? From my memory, it took 12 weeks that first time where you had to call every single week. If you missed a week, they would drop you off the list. Oh, for the open mic night? For the open mic. Yeah. And then you get that two minutes on stage. That's really helpful. Yeah. But it is kind of helpful, you know? Yeah, that was because they wanted to make sure that you knew that you were dedicated, I guess. Yeah, but where'd you come from, though? I mean, I'm from Illinois. Yeah.

Yeah, I watched the special. Oh, thank you. And I have some questions, though. Yes, of course. But only because, you know, we can go through the whole story, but it was...

But it was interesting at the end, you're moving towards this meeting with your estranged father, who is a scary fella. But somehow you made the choice not to include almost any of that conversation into the special proper. We're all moving towards this thing. And sure enough, the guy's alive and you sit down with him and he answers one question. And then that's it. Yeah. Yeah.

A few bits and pieces during the credits, and then the words come up that he wrecked his bike. Is he alive? He is alive, yeah. A lot of people don't know there's an epilogue on that, too, that's like 12 minutes. I think I put too many...

Too much time. Too many epilogues. Yeah. Oh, so after he's in a coma, he came back. Yeah. Yeah, but was it clear that, you know, that he was... Yeah, I guess it was clear. I read that. Yeah, he wrecked his bike. And I mean, I thought it was my sister called me and she was like, he's going to be dead. Yeah. And then so I went to go visit. I went to the hospital in Tennessee. Yeah. To go see him. Yeah. And he was... Not dead. No, but he was like in...

Yeah. It was like, it was bad. But like, okay. So you're in Illinois. You started, where'd you grow up? Well, I'm from normal. That's so I was born. That's right. Yeah. Normal. Have you been out there at all? I don't know. It's like, I mean, it's like, it's like a Peoria. Yeah. You know, I don't know. Like I went to Sacramento the other night. I'm like, I'm pretty sure I've been here to this airport. Yeah.

And then, like, I got to the venue and I'm like, was I here? And she's like, yeah, you were here a couple years ago. I'm like, oh, shit. You stayed in this room. Yeah, exactly. So normal Illinois. But the situation was like from the beginning of your life, you know, chaotic and dangerous. Yeah. I mean, it was like it was so chaotic looking back. But yeah, it was it was like central Illinois. So we would just move around.

So we lived in this small town called Armington, which is in the film. Yeah. And it's like 350, 400 people. Yeah. No businesses. So you're in this town where there's nothing. Like now I'm trying to think. I just talked to somebody else that grew up in a town where, who the hell was that? Where there was literally nothing to do. Oh, it was Richard Gadd the other day. Oh, yeah. That was in Scotland. Right. Right.

And there was, you had to drive like a half an hour just to go to the movies. Nothing, like seriously, there's no, there are no stores. So when I was growing up, there was a gas station. Okay. And that was the, you know, they had some food there. Snacks. Mountain Dew, Code Red, that sort of thing. The important stuff for Midwest living. M&M's, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

And that's it. Yeah. And now that's closed down. It's gone. And where's your mom? She's in Illinois as well, but she used to work at that. She used to be the person that turned us. Yeah. And she'd always get in trouble because she'd bring three of us. Yeah. And sit there? And she'd be sitting there. Yeah. Behind the counter at the gas station? Yeah. We'd just be playing around. And it's like, you know, at some point, someone has to draw a line and say, this isn't a daycare as well. Right. Well, what happened, like...

When does things, and you're the middle sister? I'm the second out of five. Five? Yeah, there's five of us. Five with the one dad? Yeah. Five with one dad and one mom. And yeah, it was chaotic. And he went on to have more?

You know, probably. Oh. He has... He got married after my mom, and she had three kids. Yeah. And so he was a stepdad to them. So there's five kids, and...

What was going on in the house? Do you remember, like, you have older siblings, so they must know, they must have been directly affected in a conscious way of whatever the hell was going on there. Yeah, I mean, my sister's 15 months older, and so we were basically twins, you know, so we were in the same grade. Yeah. And...

So I have the memories where like my sister is 10 years younger than me. She doesn't know anything. Right. Because when we left my dad, she was two. Yeah. And so I have all the memories. And it was, yeah, I mean, it was just really, it was really poor. It was super poor. Yeah. Very chaotic. But like, you know, everyone says like kids are resilient. Yeah. You know, it's true. Like we were just like...

If it's your norm, then you're like, this is my life. It's fine. But what was going on? It was, I mean, it was like what I said in the film too. It was just like really, like my dad would like, he would leave sometime. My mom would call it like, oh, your dad's going out on a walkabout again. And then he wouldn't come back for two years. And I'm like, that's a long walk. Really? Yeah. And like, we were so young, like four years old. I was four when he went out for two years. And then...

You know, he would do that all the time. Yeah. So how did your mother survive? Just from the gas station or help? I mean, she was on, you know, government aid for a while. And then his family lived down there, like in the country, in Illinois. Your dad's family. Yeah. And so they kind of took care of each other. Like she was friends with his sister and then his mom.

Always took us in if we needed it. Oh, really? Yeah. And they knew that he was a problem? Yeah. I mean, it's just so different down there. They were like Jehovah's Witnesses. And so it's like none of them, I don't know. He just like went off the rails, I guess. But I think a few of his siblings did. Oh, really? Yeah. You don't know them?

I mean, I've met them. Your curiosity didn't drive you to make a broader documentary? It'll be the next one, yeah. About your dad's family? It's going to be just like some guys sitting in overalls on their porch.

Well, they're probably willing to talk. Hey, I'm from Hollywood. Yeah. That's always good with those people. Yeah. They love that right away. They love California. Yeah. Yeah. So you're four and he splits for two years and then you just get used to him being gone and then he comes back. Yeah. And what is that? Like, you know, did he bring presents? Sorry, kids. Yeah. He was like, my mom said,

When he would leave and when he would come back, it would be harder for her. It was easier when he was gone in a lot of ways. And so...

Like, it's like she had to take care of another person. So he would come back and, but you weren't old enough to really know. There must have been like fighting, like where the fuck were you? Was he staying in touch for the two years? I feel like my mom was like very, you know, she's like super, she was super Catholic. Yeah. And very like afraid of conflict. Right. And I think she was more quiet than anything. Like I don't think she was like instigating any sort of fights. She just leaned into the suffering? Yeah. So there wasn't a lot of fighting.

I don't remember. I mean, like, I remember fights that would lead to, like, throwing hits, like, if he really went...

Went for it. Yeah. Yeah. The day that we when we left and we moved to Chicago, it was like 10 physical. It was everything was screaming. I was 12. Yeah. But so he comes back after two years. And then when then what happens? When does he end up in prison? So he was in prison when my older sister was born. OK. Yeah. When you were younger. Mm hmm.

Yeah, I don't even remember it. How long was he in for? And then he's been in, I don't know, maybe three or four years. But your mom didn't drag you all there to see him? Well, my mom was pregnant when he was at Joliet State Prison, which is closed down now. But she was pregnant and wouldn't go visit him. Yeah. And then when my sister Michaela was born, he was in prison. Because I was asking her the other day, she was out here visiting. And I was like...

I was like, well, was he at least supportive when you were having your babies at the hospital? She's like, oh, no. She's like, well, he was in prison with Mikayla. And I was like, okay, so no. And he was drunk when you were born. And I was like, okay. And you kept going, like, this guy, we've got to have more kids with this guy. Yeah, how does she answer those questions? She was just...

She was just like optimistic. How old was she? 23, 24. And then she's like, well, I just thought he'd come around. I was like, all right, well, some of this is on you. Yeah. It's weird when you get into that, though, because I've been in those situations where you think people will come around. Right. I mean, it's obviously not that bad. But if you have that personality where you're not...

hip to the nature of codependency and the fact that you really can't change people unless they want to change. I mean, you're in for a ride for as long as it takes for you to get woke about it. Right. Sometimes I feel like I'm waiting around on myself to change. Yeah, no, I know. Because you feel like you go through these periods where you're like, I think I grew out of that. And then something happens, you're like, oh no, I'm the exact same. Exactly. But you can choose not to act on it.

Mm-hmm. This is the best you can do. Right. Like, I know what this is. I'm not going to fucking do it.

I've been here before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't need to act the way I did before that ruined everything. I feel like that any time I'm on stage and I really want to go into somebody talking or on their phone or something, and I just go, you're not seeing it, just don't look that way. And no one knows it, so just kind of look above them. Yeah. I had that in fucking Napa the other night. In crowd insanity at a theater.

Like one woman was just shit-faced and wouldn't stop yelping. And then another woman was sort of obsessed and parasocial with me and decided that she needed to give me a gift about 20 minutes into the show. Wow. Mark, I brought this stuff for you. And people were like, what is happening?

And she's like, I love you. And, like, she's holding a bag. She's standing up. They pass it up to me. Some hand-sewn cat toy and a little Ganesh statue. It was all very nice, but it was odd. Yeah. And I think it's because, like, nobody brings me gifts, but I've opened for people where people want to bring them gifts. I think it's because they know you're getting off the stage when you're done with your set. They're like, this is my time. Yeah, they might not get you after. But then it became this long conversation. And, you know...

it's hard. Your nature with, with crowd work is, you know, you're going to shut this shit down, but this woman's being nothing but, you know, open and loving. And I'm sort of like, Hey man, can you shut the fuck up? You know, like, what am I going to do? You can't do that.

So like she keeps talking and she's insisting on giving me this gift. And the rest of the crowd is like, hey, shut up. I'm like, take it easy. This is not a hostile situation. This is like a person who somehow doesn't know that she's in a room full of people and she's got a gift. So let's just ride this out. But then the other woman, the drunk woman, then I had to like get angry. And that moment where...

You shift out. Like, crowd work's one thing, but there is a moment where you honestly get angry, and you're either going to show that or you're not. And if you show it, some part of you realizes, like, all right, well, now they've seen that. Right. And now we've got to get back to nice guy or whatever the fuck person who does his job. Yeah. You're like, let me get back to my act. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I always say, like, all right, so now you see who I really am. Let me try to get back.

Let's see if we could. I know everyone's nervous. You know, daddy yelled. But it

It's so hard because it's so much more entertaining, and we all know it because we've been in crowds, to see what is going to unfold when a heckler is there. And that's why it's so hard to go back because you're like, well, nothing's more entertaining than what we're seeing now. Kind of, but I know how to do crowd work. I'm good at it. But I'd rather do the shit that I'm working on. Oh, same. Yeah. So when you get into a crowd situation, if it's cute...

And it kills, you know, it becomes very real. But if it's managerial, then you just want to get it dealt with. Like, you know, eventually they got that woman out of there. And I could hear it happening. And it's a theater and everyone can hear it happening. And I just stopped talking. And I just, for like a good 45 to a minute, I'm just sort of like, we're just going to wait until...

She processes what's happening. Because you could hear that like, no. I'm like, all right. I'm not. There's nothing to do here. Yeah. And just no one else. Let's just sit calmly for as long as it takes. That's actually a really good idea. Because it's going to be split focus. Yeah.

It's just like, you know, it's being taken care of. So why pretend like we're just going to blow over this? You know, wait till it's done and just be like, is everyone okay? I still think it's funny. Somebody crocheting a toy. Hey, hey, lady, shut up. Just so funny. Fuck your toy.

You could have a whole 15 minutes at the end where you just accept gifts from everybody. Yeah. Well, I tried to put a kibosh on that a little bit because people don't realize it's like I'm traveling. I carry on my baggage. I can't take the painting. Right. You know what I mean?

Checking all the cat toys, the paintings. Some guy has a joke because I did an Instagram Live about getting the cats out and bringing... When I evacuated, I brought a utility knife in order to get Buster out of the box I taped him into. Yeah.

And some guy in Sacramento gave me a new utility knife. And I got to leave on the plane from Napa the next day. I'm like, well, I hope the house cleaning staff has a use for this. Because I'm not going to try to get this on the plane. You have a knife as a tip. That's great. And I take it all home. Yeah. Because I don't have the heart to throw it away. I know. Well, especially if it's homemade. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's just another thing. You know, it's nice, but I have a lot of stuff. So I had to kind of...

Limit that. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So what was the scene when your dad, when your mom kind of ran away for good? Yeah. So we were living in like in the specialized show, the house that we lived in, which was just demolished. And, um,

that house was disgusting and we were living there. It was like, you know, seven people and like 14 pets and two houses. Is that the house in the show you went to that's no longer there? Yeah, exactly. And it was like, you know, outdoor plumbing. Yeah, just like, there's like a well and it was, it was disgusting. I would never be able to deal with that. And that was in, um,

In Illinois? Yeah, that was like outside Armington, Illinois. Yeah. Which is like mostly where I grew up was this, because it was outside the town, a while outside the town. So there's nothing to do. Most of the time we had nothing going on, no cable. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But so my dad, I don't know, he must have been drunk or something. I don't remember all of the details. I just remember him going off on a rampage, throwing this like huge Atlas book and

It like hitting the TV. He's like kicked my mom in the back as she was like changing my sister's diaper, like just really terrible rampage. Yeah. And as I'm doing to just freaking all your stuff. Yeah.

And then my mom was just like, that's enough. You know, she just hit it. And she goes, we're leaving. Oh, yeah. That was it. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting moment. That clarity. And you do what you have to do. Yeah. So your dad's like kind of bumbling around the house violently and she just loads the car up and that's it. She goes, and well, so she gets in the car with all of us. And you're how old?

12. Oh, my God. So that's like real memory. And I'm the helper. Yeah. You know, so we have like that one of those station wagons, the Woody station wagon. Yeah, like a Caprice station wagon or something. It's like a Mercury Grand something. With the fake wood paneling. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's like opens like in the back. Old style. Yeah, the big back door. Swinging back door. Swinging back door. Yeah. And so we get in there. He's throwing shit at the car. We're backing up. What? Yeah. Yeah.

So you're driving away and you just see an angry, raging man in the rear view. Yeah. And you're just like, and you know, she's trying to get everybody. And probably two of you are in the back looking out that back window. Yeah. And it's, and then, so we try to get a hotel that night. We can't get a hotel. She, we ended up staying with my granny, who's my dad's mom. Yeah. And she's like, he's at it again. Yeah. And then she tries to convince my mom to stay. Yeah. And my mom's like, I'm getting out of here. Wow. So then my grandpa comes down.

And he starts raging. Yeah. So then he starts throwing shit at us. My grandma gets in on it. Throws a few things. Wow. But he helped. My grandpa from my mom's dad came down from Chicago. Oh, okay. Drove down, packed us all up, and then we moved in with them. Oh, thank God. Yeah. And we lived happily ever after. Oh, good. Did you? Was there room? Did you, like, what...

Yeah, I lived in the attic. I mean... Right. Yeah. But at least you were in a relatively loving environment. Yeah. I mean, her family loves us. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was rough. Thank God for grandparents. Yeah. Right? Right. And then, so, then what happens? You got to change schools? You got to do all that shit? Yeah, we change the school. But I was, you know...

I feel, I don't know if I'm like psycho or not, but I just didn't feel any trauma at this point or like I was excited to leave. I was excited to like possibly be popular at this next school. Yeah, well, you're a kid. Yeah. Rebrand? Yeah. How do you, I mean, you don't register that kind of trauma unless you're

someone beats the shit out of you or does something awful. Right. You're just sort of like, oh, grandma. Yeah. Oh, this is fun. Yeah, right. Near the city. Yeah. And did you, how was that new school? I mean, it was a lot, but, you know, I'm going from a rinky-dink school to like straight up, I mean, the thousands of kids. Yeah. And you're just, but it was fine. I mean, like looking back, I made friends really easily. So I was like,

I had friends, did terrible in my school. Yeah. Made friends, went on, you know, joined the basketball team, that sort of thing. You did the jock thing? Yeah, I did a little bit of jock, a little bit of the art, you know. What was the art? Just drawing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But you had friends. Nothing real. I was in band. I was in marching band. Oh, really? Yeah. You did the full spectrum from jock to dork. I did. Yeah. Yeah.

With a little art in the middle. Yeah. I guess I was trying everything to see what would fit. What you fit in? Yeah. What did you play in marching band? Trumpet. Oh. Yeah. And I was also a flag, like color guard, flag girl. You spun the flags around? Yeah. The baton stuff? Yeah, that's right. Man, you just, you attacked it from all angles. I did. For the friendships. Seeing what would stick. And did you maintain friends in all different places?

factions? Pretty much. Yeah. I mean, I don't think any of my friends ended up really doing any of those things. They were all just drinking in the woods. No one's stuck with the flag stuff? Yeah. As a life? No. Can you imagine? My mom's still upset. What do you have to? Yeah. I'm still spinning the, you know... Oh, my God. Yeah.

You're really locked in, huh? What is the market for something like that? How do you... Do you do corporate stuff? I do open mics. Yeah, I do the improv. I've got a big following on social media. What is this now? Oh, okay. Nothing. Are we being evacuated? No, no. It's just... It's just...

A friend, you know, like, but that's so weird how vigilant you get. Like, well, oh, God. Yeah. Okay. So now when do you like you? So you just stayed with your grandparents through high school? We stay. No, we stayed for maybe six months or a year. And then we moved to a domestic violence shelter for like 18 months.

Because he came after you? No, because they have, I mean, they had like a great program. Oh, okay. And so we had to apply for it first. For people that flee? Yeah. Okay. And then nobody, like, you can't, the building's like unmarked, obviously. It's just like a brick, it looks like a brick apartment building. Like a hiding place. Yeah. Yeah. And so, but they gave us, it's a full apartment. It was three bedrooms. It was nice. Yeah. Yeah. Especially after living with your grandparents, you're just like happy to, but we weren't allowed to have because...

Everyone in there was like, you know, it was a mom and her kids. Yeah, right. Like, there were like four or five apartment buildings. Right. So we couldn't have, like, boys. Right. Outside boys, men in that apartment building. So, you know, I'm like eighth grade. Yeah, even to, oh, so not quite dating, but still they were around. Would have some boys over. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah, you got to have a place to go make out. Yeah. Yeah. Meet some of these boys on the marching band field. Bring them over. So, yeah, we used to sneak boys in. Oh, yeah? Yeah. But they were eighth graders.

So they weren't that threatening. Yeah, they still weren't allowed, but we were just rebels like that. And you stayed there for 18 months? Yeah. See, isn't it interesting when social services works and people are actually taken care of? And we had to go. I mean, it was required that we went to counseling, so we had to go to counseling.

counseling as a child every week. And did you, do you remember making friends with the other kids who were traumatized? I mean, it was, at first I was in the kid group because I was like 12. Yeah. And then I was moved. I was like, please put me in the teenage group. Yeah. Get to the teenage group. And those girls had it, like the stories. I was like, it was a whole awakening for me because, I mean, they had a lot of trauma, but they also were like already traumatized.

you know, they were sexual and like, yeah. And I was like, whoa, this is too much for me. Right.

At 13. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're kind of like, I think I want to go back with the kids. Yeah. It's too much information. Yeah, it was. I was like, I just want to go back and play that game, the games we were playing. Spin the bottle and whatnot. Yeah. Oh, my God. So, like, okay, so you stayed there for 18 months, then where? So then we get Section 8 housing. Okay. And we live on...

Awesome Boulevard in Oak Park, which is Austin. Okay, I was going to say Awesome Boulevard. That's a good sign. We went to Austin. Yeah.

Living on Awesome Boulevard. And it was, you know, it's the border between Chicago and Oak Park. How old were you? You were 13 when you moved? Yeah. Well, we were 12 when we moved to Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. And then everything changes. Everything changes. Yeah. Life gets real. And it's a different school. So you're going to high school at a different place. I'm having fun. Yeah. Yeah. I made all new friends immediately. And the dad's completely gone. He's, yeah. He, you know, we went... Doesn't come to visit, doesn't reach out. The next summer...

We went to, like, as part of the agreement. Yeah. We go to his house. Yeah. And then that's the only summer we ever went there. Yeah. We went for, like, two weeks. And was it a nightmare? I mean, we were, you know, we were having fun. He was just working the whole time. He had a girlfriend. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

That's the summer I got my period, as I mentioned in the special. Yeah, exciting. Yeah, it was pretty exciting for me. How'd he handle that? Well, I told him I lied, and I was like, I think Sandra got her period. We have to go get her some pads. I just can't imagine...

that guy, you know, who, you know, you see at the end of this journey in the documentary was capable of anything. Yeah. It was not somebody you wanted to talk to. He's a scary guy. Yeah. I mean, he reads scary. Yeah. He was scary. Yeah. But I mean, I guess he had his moments. He's very like quiet. Yeah. You know that. Yeah. Maybe that's why he didn't include the full interview. Yeah.

You find out he's a great guy. Well, definitely when he sat down, he's like, all right, so what are we doing? Yeah. Yeah. I guess because he saw the camera there. Well, he knew there was going to be cameras because we miked him. Yeah. But I didn't see him until the moment that I see him in the film. Right. Right. And so he was nervous. Oh, so he's got to deal with that. Right. He was like, what's happening? Right. And.

So you didn't tell him when he was coming to meet you that you were going to be recording it? No, he knew. Oh, okay. Yeah, because I had a few friends that were doing the project with me that were in touch as well with him. And we're like, okay, we're going to get you mic'd up. So he gets in there and he's like, y'all got a beer? And they're like, we got seven up. Yeah.

I'm going to need to take the edge off for this. I was like, I wish I had one at that point. And then so I was like, obviously so nervous. We go, that is the first question I ask him. The whole point of the thing, I always thought it would be funny, a funny joke to myself to do all this work and ask him a stupid question at the end. And so I did that.

And then we ended up going to a bar later that night and we had a drink. Yeah. Okay. But you asked him the favorite color and stuff. I thought that was kind of funny. Yeah. Yeah. Because you could almost see...

Something childlike in there, but he couldn't quite access it. Yeah. But he played along. He did. And then I was like, okay, that's it. And he was like, okay. And then we actually played catch. We didn't put that in there, but I wanted to play catch with him in that field. Why didn't you put that in there? It just looked wild. I mean, I was on adrenaline or something. Yeah.

Too tweaked? Yeah, I was. Well, then he thought like, oh, are you just trying to make fun of me? Oh, right. Because I can't, because you can throw further than me. Oh, so then it became like a scary issue again. Then we're like competitive. Well, that's very telling. I mean, you know, that...

Like how, like in that situation, even that simple, how is that not volatile? Yeah. And had to have always been that way. That sense of being threatened. Right. Because of your like whatever insecurity or whatever. Yeah. Huh.

So in high school, do you continue with the band and the trumpet and everything? Yeah, I did all that throughout high school and I did like basketball and no, no theater, no theater. No, I mean, I did a play in the summer once, but I was really, I mean, I had terrible stage fright. Like it was hard for me to say my name in class.

But then outside of class, it was fine. My friends, everything. But I was like the sweaty kid. Me too. It's interesting that when you're like that and then we end up here. I mean, I was a smart ass. But if asked to or if I had to do something public, I could crack jokes and disrupt. Yeah.

But if it's sort of like tomorrow you're going to have to get up in front of everybody, it's like, no. Yeah. No, I was the same. I could disrupt and I could be funny and I would be at the disciplinary center. But if they're like, you have to say your name and what you did this summer, I'm dead. Yeah. It's a fucking nightmare. But what about the thing with when does the boys thing crap out on you? Yeah.

I mean, looking back, it's hilarious because I'm just like, I don't need. I was like, I feel like everybody says they need like intimacy and sex. And I'm like, I don't need this in my life to survive. And it's like, oh, yeah, well, because. But you didn't you didn't have any inclination that you were gay early on? No, I it was really happened when I started comedy.

Oh, that's wild. It was almost like it broke me open. So when you were with boys, you were just sort of like, I guess this is supposed to be good. We were like, yeah, like my college boyfriend, I dated him for two years. Oh, my God. And I had a high school boyfriend for four years. Yeah. And you were having sex. Yeah. And it was just sort of like, I don't know. I mean, I could count the amount of times on my hand. I was... Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it was sort of like, this is supposed to be good. I'm not... Right. I'm just like, this is... I'm like, all right, I guess some people need this. I mean...

I was like, I could go my whole life without this. I guess I'm just stronger than everyone. Yeah, this seems crazy and messy and I don't know what he wants. Yeah, like, you again? Yeah, what do I do?

Oh, my. Well, didn't you talk about it? Like that sad handjob? What was that in the special? Oh, yeah. You're just like, I don't know. Nobody tells you how hard you're supposed to pull. There's no book. Yeah. You're just competitive with yourself. Yeah. You assume that that's a memorable thing for the wrong reason for that guy. Yeah. Don't you like getting a handjob from a lesbian? Yeah. What's the matter with you? It's a rare gift. Yeah.

My wrist's so strong from that color guard. Yeah. I'm surprised you didn't use both hands. But, okay, so after high school, did you go to college? Yes.

Yeah, I went to the University of Wyoming for no damn reason, really. Just because you got in? I got in. It was like basically 97% of the people that apply get in. Yeah, right. And I was like, all right. All right. Yeah. You didn't live there, so did you have to pay? Was it state school? Yeah, yeah, but it was less expensive than any other, like for out-of-state tuition. And is that where you start doing comedy? So I'm going there. I'm like...

Every other semester I'm failing out because I just don't, you know, I have two jobs. I'm working at the radio station, working as a photographer. I'm working like all these jobs trying to keep up. I don't care about school that much. And then basically one semester from graduating, I was just not going to school and I was working. And then I was, and then I started comedy. I was like, you know, I just. In Wyoming. Yeah.

Well, I decided, oh, I think I could do that. Like watching SNL stuff. It's like, oh, I wonder how they started. And then I go, oh, they did improv. So I called the improv theater in Denver, which is three hours away. And I was like, hey, I'd like to sign up for classes. So I start improv classes once a week. Driving down there three hours. Yeah.

And the first time I did improv, I was like, I'm going to do this for the rest of my life. Keep in mind, I'm terrible at improv. Oh, yeah.

But you like the community? It seemed fun? I was just like, I can't believe that this is what people do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then pretty quickly into that, somebody told me, you should try stand-up. I mean, probably five weeks in. Yeah. So then I started doing stand-up in Denver. And so I'm driving from Wyoming, bombing. So I'm going over my set for the open mic the whole way down. Oh, three hours. Completely bombing. And driving up at like 2.30 in the morning. Oh, wow.

I'd do that for, I don't know, a year. Once a week. Yeah. And then I moved, and then I was like... That's crazy. And what were you...

You were writing jokes? Yeah, I was writing jokes, trying to figure it out. Yeah. And just going up and tanking. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because it was that thing. I had that thing where it was like first 10 times. I'm like, I'm not bad at this. And then at least two years straight, just like really bad. Really. But I never, I just kept going. Did you, when you look back on it, does the style make sense? Were you still doing kind of like...

Straight jokes and just holding this. Yeah. Just waiting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, isn't something supposed to, are people supposed to laugh during this period? This is where I thought the laugh was going to happen. I'm still waiting. No, you would do that. Recording yourself going down. You really would give it time. You're like, okay, give a little time. Just to make sure you make your time at the open mic. Yeah. Right. Oh, yeah. When you get there, it's done in 25 seconds because no one's laughing. Yeah.

And you're like, that's all I got. Yeah. Do you remember when it first started to click? Man, well, I just did it all the time. It just became such an open mic-er. And sometimes I feel like I'm still waiting for it to click, but it's like, you know, it took at least 10 years. Yeah. You know?

I don't, maybe like, maybe five years in Chicago. I was like, okay, I get like, people sort of tell you who you are as a performer. Right. And I go, okay, I guess that makes sense. I forgot that one part of the doc. That was like a great part. The, uh,

the grave site of that girl. Yeah. What was that story again? So you used to go because there was nowhere to play in that house. Yeah. With the outhouse and you just go to the cemetery. So we basically crossed the highway to get to the cemetery. We played in it all the time. Like it was, we found our cat there.

Yeah. You took a graveyard cat? Yeah. She was, she would like, you'd go to her like little bowl. She'd have like a bird head in it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, graveyard cats are there for a reason. Yeah. But you took it. We took it. It had five kittens. It was, yeah. It's weird that cats live in graveyards, but they always do. I know. It was such a cute cat though. So what was the story with that grave site? So,

This girl died. This is actually when I stopped going to church. So we were at part of the Lutheran church. This girl died when she was 16. And in the doc too, I call her the Michael Jordan of the graveyard because she played three sports in high school. And that's all you remember. So you were not in high school. No, I was a kid. I was in grade school. And she died. And you heard about it at church?

No, I just heard about it in the town because it happened in one of those like roads. How'd she die? She died in like a car accident. Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. So her tombstone has her etched in it playing the three sports. Yeah. And so I was always sitting by that thing. I was always like visiting her. And that is truly why I stopped going to church because I was like, that's when I realized like there's, there's

There's nothing. How could they kill this girl? Yeah. How did they let this angel die? Yeah. And you would go sit there and like you had a relationship. We play. And I always remembered her. And I always like would look, you know, even when then you get Google and stuff and I'm like looking it up. Yeah. Exactly. Did she die? And I was like, I think I think about her like I'm a family member.

It's like a mild obsession that, you know, was a key to the universe somehow. It is. Yeah. Yeah. And like, so because you couldn't wrap your brain around it. Innocence was lost in a way. Yeah. Because you weren't doing anything. And this girl did everything. It seemed like she was like a perfect person. Yeah. And just gone. Right. And you're like, oh, my God, hope is dead. Yeah. Exactly. What happens now? Yeah. Yeah.

And you never went back to church. I was supposed to do my confirmation at the church, and I'm like, I'm not going. My mom never even fought me on it. But the move to Chicago, you just did that on your own?

Yeah, so I moved back to Chicago because it was rough. Oh, after Wyoming. Yeah, I was like a hostess at a steak restaurant. I was like, I got to get the fuck out of here. What part of Wyoming? Well, that was in Denver, but I was in Laramie, Wyoming. Okay. Yeah, which I did a bunch of shows there. Yeah. It was actually pretty fun because they don't have any comedy. Well, yeah. I mean, if you're going to cut your teeth somewhere, I mean, when I was younger, it was different. It was all club driven and whatever. But, you know, it's good to be able to do it anonymously. Yeah. And just...

Nothing's anonymous anymore. Right. You know, people are posting their videos of their first set and putting them up. And I'm like, I think you might regret that. You are going to because I had a really early set in Wyoming. Yeah. And I remember somebody with a, I mean, you know, the professional camera. Sure. Like the news guys. The VHS cameras. Yeah. The big one. And I remember contacting them years later. I was like, you don't have that tape still, do you? Can you burn that? Yeah.

Yeah. Did it end up somewhere? No, thank God. But did he have it? He probably never did anything. No, he probably lost it or something. I have fucking tapes of me on Evening at the Improv from like 89. I have like club tapes from 87 and 88 that some guy's making a doc on me that I gave to him and I'm like, wow. Like, look at me. At least if you're like, if it's televised, at least it's your best stuff. These people are posting like absolute garbage. Well, they were club sets, but the most interesting about seeing that stuff is like,

For years, you can't look at it. You're like, I don't even want to see it. But when you kind of get grounded in what you do, you can look at it and be kind of like, oh, I was myself. Right. I just wasn't good at it. Yeah. And that's relief. Right. That you have a personality that somehow keeps going on and on. I'm always impressed with how I...

you know, how I was so like word for word with my jokes. And I was like, well, there was like, I really had like a work ethic to that where like now I'm a little loose, even from this dad jokes. It's like, I'm so much looser on stage. Even since the doc? Yeah. Well, I think that happens where,

You have no other way to do it at the beginning than to write jokes. Yeah. There's nothing else you can do. And that's how you figure out, you know, how to do it in a way. I don't think I really broke loose of that totally until the mid-90s when, you know, all comedy started to happen and Luna Lounge started to happen where we were sort of told to try to come up with new stuff every week. Right. So then I started to like angrily...

you know, talk about my day. And it changed everything. Then San Francisco changed everything where you realize like you own the space up there and you know, you can, if you can hold them, you can kind of do whatever you want. Right. Yeah. It's just the, the, the, the skill of holding an audience without them being like, all right, so this is, this is,

I guess she'll be done soon. There's more, right? The amount of people that have been there with their like work backpacks that clearly got free tickets from the hotel. And they're like, is this the whole thing she does? It's going to be the whole show. Is it all lesbian? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my. So, so when you go to Chicago, where are you working?

So, I start to do everything. I do like, I.O., I do Second City, I do all the improv theaters and then I just start doing stand-up. As a stand-up? No, and then I just, and at the same time, I'm doing stand-up, which helped me because I had such terrible stage fright. Right. And were you getting any better at improv? Probably not. Like, I really would forget people's names. But you were taking classes at I.O. and stuff? Yeah. Okay. I went through the whole program but then I never would make the Herald team at the end. But,

But it must have given you some confidence. It did. It helped me on stage. I had, I really needed to get comfortable on stage because I was like so nervous. I mean, I think about it the entire day. Yeah. Be going to the bathroom like three times. Like, oh my God, I got a five minute set, you know, the dread of it. Like, cause I was thinking about that with the fires and with, you know, different points in my life. But when you start out as a comic and, you know, for whatever reason you have this commitment to it, the, you know, when you've got a set next week, um,

at an open mic, your whole week is fucked. It is. Yeah. Because all you're thinking about is like, I got to go up and do that thing, the five minutes. That's why you have to have a mindless job. You have to just have a job you don't care about. Yeah. Because if you're a doctor, which there have been some, but like, no, you have to focus on your job. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm trying to remember what I was doing when I was doing those. I worked in a coffee shop and I worked in a, you know, but it was...

I can't even, it becomes hard to sort of understand what the commitment was. Right. Because like, you know, when you're doing it, you're like, I don't want to do anything else. That's insane because it's the most uncomfortable, fucked up, anxiety inducing thing in the world. Yeah. I still, I don't have an answer to it other than like, I need to be seen for who I am. This is me. It's my turn. Exactly. Exactly.

No, I feel the same exact way. I was like, I don't know. I have given my life to comedy, and I have been so, like, you know, I just think about my bank account going negative so many times in Chicago. And I'm like, it's all like, and I'm buying these wigs, and I'm doing it all. You got wigs? Yeah. Because you're doing characters? I'm doing sketch. I'm doing... As a stand-up. I did everything. Yeah, I would sometimes go on the show, and instead of doing stand-up, I would, like...

dresses Larry Bird and just pretend like I'm Larry Bird. As your stand-up set? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's ballsy. I never did anything. I just tried everything. I didn't do any wigs. I never did wigs. I was always sort of like, if we can get to me, whatever I am now is not really me. So that's the character. Yeah. I mean, I think it is smart. I was an angry guy for years. I feel like that's smarter in a lot of ways, though, because I don't think I...

I don't think I was really improving as a stand-up until I let go of the wigs and the costumes. I wouldn't have never had the confidence to believe that I could sell that. Yeah. I can barely be up there myself. I'm going to put a hat on and pretend to be a guy? There's just no way. It's weirdly so much easier, though, because you really get lost. I get lost in Larry Bird, and I'm like, I'm so funny as Larry Bird. I'm so quick. Well, that must be from improv. Yeah.

Yeah. That must have like what gave you the confidence to do that. Right. Because like to me, like getting into a character that is like completely clowning. I'm like, you know, immediately I'm like, this is stupid. I look stupid. There's no way. I still think that. I'm still like, this is fucking stupid. But it is somehow funnier than my actual self on stage. So when do you give it up? The wigs and the... I did that show like six months ago. Yeah.

Sometimes I bring out Larry Bird. You do? Yeah. Does anyone know who he is anymore? I don't know. Some people are like, who is that? So I explain it.

And that can't help the bit. And I say, well, I go like, I'm Larry Bird. I'm not shy anymore. And then I just kind of try to recruit five players to my new Celtics team. Okay. So it's a crowd work device? Yeah. And I mean, it's really fun. But even the last time I did it, I was just like, I don't know what that was. I don't like that.

I was like, I got to get, I got to put my clothes back on. It's weird when you grow up in some sort of chaos or emotional void in terms of parents that, you know, that you, there's some part of you that deeply craves that discomfort. Yeah. Because it's familiar, you know, like, oh, this is exactly, I'm a strange person alienated from most people emotionally. And, and let's honor that tonight. Yeah.

And everyone has to watch it. I do love... You drag them in. I do. To your discomfort. To my childhood. Yeah. Yeah, there was... I mean, I love the cringe moment. Like, if somebody's doing comedy and there's that cringe in my stomach is, like, turning for them. I fucking love that so much. It's not that I want so much of that in my act, but I'm like, if I could get one moment where it's like, oh, I don't... Well, like, eventually you get to the point, and I know you're there, because I think I kind of saw you do it, where, like, you have an idea...

Like I'm doing this now because I'm trying to, you know, kind of re-groove an hour where I have Post-its and I have things. And as opposed to like structure a joke, I'll have what I think is funny that I have to work with on a Post-it and I'll just read it. And a lot of times they'll get laughs and I'll be like, oh, I'll work on that. But sometimes I'll read it and nothing. And I'm like, all right, well...

That one's, I guess, not going to go in. So you get adept enough to win something tanks like that, that you can bounce back with some humility and just be like, hey, look, not all of these are going to go. I feel like that's something I've always had on stage is being able to bounce back because so many of my jokes would not go. And so at least I was funny in the like, well, that didn't work. I learned that pretty quick. Yeah.

Most of my act was like, so that one also didn't work. Well, that's actually a great character. Like, I don't know why someone, I'm sure someone has tried that, where you just have these mediocre to lame jokes. And as the arc of the set goes, you get more frustrated. Like, I'm working. God damn it.

What the fuck is wrong with me? Why do I even do this? And you're getting the laugh from that guy responding. This is the last one. This is the last one. I'm out of here.

Oh, God. So when do you start featuring? How do you get to the point where... Which clubs? You work in Zany's eventually and that kind of stuff? Yeah, I was doing all those popping around. But then I left Chicago before I even did anything. I mean, I wasn't like a big fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you were doing real sets. Yeah, I was doing real sets. And then I moved to here, moved to L.A.,

And then I started, a few years in, I started to go on the road with Jessel Neck. Okay. And then kept getting, like, opening gigs like that, like theater tours. Yeah, yeah. So you're solid. And I love, it's the best job in the world. Like, I'd rather, like, I was, yeah, I've been featuring...

Like this whole last year on the theater tour. And I'm like, I love it with Brett Goldstein. Oh, okay. That's a good one. For 14 months. Well, then at least, you know, you have a attentive, sophisticated audience with him, certainly. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's all of those audiences were really different and they were all amazing to like navigate. Yeah.

You know, Anthony used to just say, it was so funny because like I bombed once or twice, like definitely in London. With Jeselnik? Oh, you went to London with Jeselnik? Yeah. And I bombed and he was like, I was like, God, I'm sorry. It was so bad. He was like, I don't care. It doesn't matter. He's like, I'm going to kill anyway. And I'm like, that's actually really helpful for me. Yeah.

No sympathy for your plight. Yeah. Because it's my show. Yeah. He's like, it doesn't matter if you do good or bad. I'm like, that's actually really helpful for me. But did he say it at least in a caring way?

I'm sure he felt empathy when I came off with my tail between my legs. Yeah. Well, I think he had to have been a guy that bombed his fair share trying to put that thing together. Right. Back in the day. Yeah. I didn't see him early on, but you've got to figure that particular angle out. Oh, yeah. That's rough. That's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So you bombed with Jeselnik. Yeah, I did a few bombs. Like most of them were good. But there were, you know, each tour would be like two or three shows. Well, his audience is weird because, you know, they don't really know him or what he is. But they know that, you know, in terms of being a person like you would know him or I would know him. But they know the character and they have expectations. And the expectations are like, this is going to be fucked up.

Yeah. And then, and then I come on and I'm like, so I'm a lesbian, you know what I mean? And it's like, who is, who is this? But they were, they were very nice. Like when we were on our, like we went, we went on a European tour and stuff and we did America and I was like, we, we had so much fun and, and his audience was so good to me. Yeah. And it was definitely harder. Like it was a hard audience, but in a good way where like they were, I only had a few shows that were like, sorry. Yeah. Right.

Well, I mean, a lot of times they're just not focused or sometimes when you're opening, they're still seating. Right. And, you know, it's just, it's the nature of that position. But it's the best, I think it's the best gig in comedy. I know a lot of people go to. Jumping for theater act? Yeah, because it's like, you don't have to get anybody out. You're staying in nice hotels. You're eating. It's all just about the job. Yeah. And you have, you're set up just,

Perfectly. And they feel like you're a treat and they're like, oh, that's great. Like there's this person. Yeah. Going for 15 minutes. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And they're there for a reason. They didn't just wander in. It's not a free ticket. Right. And, you know, they're, you know, okay. They know that you'll be done soon if they don't like you. Right. Yeah. And they're going to see the person they came to see. Mm-hmm. Oh, boy. So when do you meet your wife? We met in...

2014. We met at a bowling alley at this event called Les Bowl. I was going to say, I'm glad it was a specific event. And it was sort of like, is a lesbian the best at bowling thing? Yeah, we moved from softball to bowling. It was like a rotator cuff sort of thing. We're like, we've got to go under him. Our shoulders are hurt. Yeah.

Yeah, I remember field hockey somehow being a sport. I remember calling it dyke hockey when I was completely in the closet. Yeah, I just, okay, so you meet her. What does she do? She is a writer. She writes, she started as a performer, like improv sketch. I didn't know her when she was a performer. And she's a writer. She does like kids, kids TV, kids movies, kids musicals. Oh, really? Sort of thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Who's that? What's her name? Oh, Samantha Martin. Oh, who did I talk to that was started in kids stuff? Oh, Robbie.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Robbie Hoffman? Yeah. Yeah. Like, she was, like, big. Like, that was her big thing is that kids show in Canada. I mean, a lot of people I know that work in kids TV, Sam, too, it's like she's never stopped working, where all of us have all these years of gaps of shows we've been on or whatever. Yeah, I think that kids expect less. Yeah. Yeah.

I could use some of that. Yeah. Low expectations. Sure. Like if it works for the kids, they're like, let's do it for a decade. Yeah. You know, I mean, they're not going to be like, I don't know this character arc. Right. This really does. They really jumped the shark on that last puppet thing. You want the same thing over and over. Because there's always a new generation of kids. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's exciting. And how long before you got married?

A few years, maybe two or three years. Yeah. Yeah. And then we got married at her parents' house. And yeah, and we've been together forever now. Ten years. You work it out. Yeah, it's actually it is good. We had a kid and, you know, there were some rough years of and

COVID for both of us just having to be on top of each other. But I feel like we made it out somehow. Yeah. Well, it's either going to bring you closer or destroy it eventually. Yeah. We'll see if we survive the fire. Like every few years, LA gives us something. Well, yeah. But when you're locked in, you know, you got to figure it out. And you had the kid during COVID. How old was the kid? She was five months old when COVID hit. Oh, my God. And I just went back. I was working on Anthony's show, Good Talk. And

We were there for maybe a week. You wrote on that? Yeah.

And I was like, I'm out. I'm going to get a gym membership. Yeah. You know, I'm back. Cause I had the baby. So I'm like, okay. Yeah. I'm like, I'm going to get my body back and stuff. And no shut down. Really? Yeah. How was that experience? The having the baby. It is really wild. It was really difficult for me because it's not my identity to be pregnant. Like I didn't do that thing where I was like always rubbing the belly or something like so nurturing. And,

And you know, when photos, women go like this when they're, you know, they cup the top, just so you know, I'm pregnant, you know, that sort of thing. I was always arms all the way out because I was just like, I don't like that. I have an alien inside me. I need it out. Yeah, it was. Yeah. I mean, the decision process on who had it.

So I'm four years older, but also, I mean, I joke that it's because I'm taller, but I do think that it's like, I felt like my body could take it better because her mom is petite and Sam's more petite than I am. And so I was like, I think actually I can hold this better.

Yeah. And we got tested and my eye was like more fertile than her. Yeah. Which made sense because my family couldn't have kids like no problem. Yeah. Yeah. Plenty of kids. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah. So, so I was like, okay, I'll do it. And then she does a second one. And I have a joke about this, but it is true that like she saw me have the baby and she was like. No. Yeah. This is it. Yeah. Because she was like, I. I'm backing out of the deal. Which is funny because when dads see it, they're like, oh, if I could, if I could. Mm-hmm.

And like she actually did get to see it and had the opportunity to do it. And she was like, no. Yeah. Just I think you talk a bit about that. Yeah. Was it a 9-11 joke, I think? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because we told our doctor she was supposed to be born on 9-11. Yeah. And we really did tell him. We were like, I want to get this out as soon as possible. I don't want her to be born. So you were induced or you had cesarean? I was induced. Yeah. And he did. He was like, let's do this. Yeah. Let's get it out of there. Yeah.

So the kid's how old now? She's five. Oh, and it's good? Yeah, she's great. Yeah. And we are, I mean, having one kid is good. I would feel kind of weird leaving on the road, leaving like a newborn and a five-year-old, you know, it's a lot. It must have been...

In some way beneficial that COVID happened in terms of attention to the kid. You know, as difficult it might have been. You didn't have to go. Right. Everyone's totally bonded for three years. Right. Solid. Yeah. To be honest, it's like you're never ready to leave and go back to work. I wasn't ready. I mean, mentally, sometimes I was, but I was like emotionally, it was hard to be away from her. Yeah.

What are you doing? Like, what's on the plate here? How's that special doing? What have you got going? The special's good. It has like a small audience that's watched it, and now it's on Hulu, so maybe more will watch. But I...

It's called Daddy Jokes? It's called Dad Jokes. Dad Jokes, yeah. Yeah, Daddy Jokes. And the whole premise is that you were doing Dad Jokes, but you had no relationship with your dad, so you thought you could either broaden them or make them more honest if you had a relationship with a guy. Yeah, and get some new ones, yeah. Yeah, so it was intercut with this documentary of you going to meet your estranged dad. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now, when you think, like, what's, is he...

well now? I mean, is he functioning? Yeah, he's functioning. And, but any, we were texting a little bit. Um, but then I think he saw the film and it was like, Oh really? He hasn't texted since. That's it. So now it's back to normal. I mean, it doesn't matter to me. Yeah. So there's no sort of like, you got to meet your granddaughter kind of shit. No. Yeah. I don't, you know, he's just not a nurturing fella. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't think he was ever supposed to have children. So he had five. So he had five with my mom. Just because she's Catholic. Yeah. And there was no other way to go about it. There's nothing to do. Yeah, yeah. Here comes another one. And she always was like, well, he was so good looking. He was hot. And I was like, Mom, I don't want to hear about how you were horny. That's why you...

made all these mistakes. Well, how are you with your mom? Great. Yeah. Yeah. She's no, she's, um, we talk all the time and she able to, and she's got a good relationship with the kid and everything. Oh yeah. Yeah. She, I mean, she loves her kids so much. She loves all of us. I think all of us can do no wrong. She's like every day, she's just like, I just don't understand why you're not on SNL or like, she'll be like, I saw fortune with a Netflix special. How come you're

You don't have enough for a special. It's always something. Yeah. Your job isn't justified until something on their radar shows them that you've made it. Yeah. And meanwhile, most people, no matter whether they have a special or not, are out there pounding the pavement trying to keep the thing going. Right. Right.

But what is the plan, though? Are you just touring? Yeah, so we ended the tour, and I was writing and performing on the office spinoff this whole last year. Oh, that's a good gig. Yeah, and at the same time, I was touring on the weekends, because luckily they still let me keep a lot of those dates. Now, when does that show come on? I think it's coming out in the spring. And how was that experience? How do you think it was? Was it funny? I hope so. I mean, yeah, I mean...

It's a big cast. It was super fun. The writer's room was really fun. I met a ton of great people. What's the angle of it? How is it a spinoff? It's basically the same. I mean, it's the same tone. It's like the same... But is it the same office? No. It's like a different place. It's not Dunder Mifflin or whatever? No, no. It's a completely different, just spitting off to a new business. Wow.

And it's going to be called The Office? No, I don't think so. Like, it's, I don't know if they're going to keep it, but they were reporting that it's going to be called The Paper. But, I mean, I have no idea if they're going to change it last minute. So is it even affiliated development-wise to The Office? No.

No, it's not the same showrunner or the same... Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it is. So it's Greg Daniels. What's his name again? Greg Daniels, yeah. And then Michael Komen. Oh, good. Well, that's a good gig. Get your WGA insurance. It was a lot of... Yeah, it was... Yeah, it happened. It's like any job I get that's not stand-up is like...

The interviews on Friday. Hey, you start on Monday. So I was like, well, it's a good loop to be in. Yeah. A comedy writer that can do it. Right. Well, good. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much. Great talking. It was so great. I hope we survive these. God damn it. Getting our cars. God damn it. I'm literally just sort of like, should I just go to Vegas for three days so I don't have to sit here in the wind? You go to Palm Springs, Joshua Tree.

I thought of that, but like right now it's flagged right up to Palm Springs. Oh, God. Because that's where we went and it was like, I don't know, it was like this wasn't happening. Yeah. Yeah. There's less to burn, I think, out there, no? Yeah. It seems like a lot of rocks. Yeah. But like everyone becomes an amateur meteorologist. Like with the foliage, the vegetation doesn't seem to. All right. Well, we'll see what happens. All right. There you go. I like her.

Again, Dad Jokes is streaming on Hulu and her podcast with Beth Stelling is called Sweethearts. Hang out for a minute. People, this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game, shifting a little money here, a little there and hoping it all works out? Well, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too.

You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance, and they'll help find you options within your budget. Try it today at Progressive.com. And now, some legal info. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Okay, folks, if you want more details about what's been going on in my life and in my head during these fires out there, I talked about it for a bonus episode on the full Marin feed this week. This was always part of...

The agreement you make with living here, you know, whether it be earthquakes or this, that these Santa Ana winds have been a reality for centuries. And, you know, this was always a possibility. And there was always fires every year all along the California vegetation all the way up north. You know, I was in San Francisco, California.

you know, decades ago where, you know, Point Reyes and, you know, a big chunk of massive acreage burned. And I was in Napa the other night and that place burned down a couple of years ago. And, you know, it's just reality and you can rationalize it however you want. So like, yeah, well, the earth does this and sometimes burning's good and yada, yada. But, but, you know, the menace of human loss and, and, uh,

tragic loss of property and, you know, possessions, you know, it's a reality on a major scale. To get bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Maram by going to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder, before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's some guitar I enjoyed. ♪

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Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere.