Shownotes Transcript
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your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash WTF. Offer code WTF. Yes. Squarespace. Let's do the show. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck Knicks? How you doing? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. How's it going? Today on the show, I talked to Lisa Traeger, who is great. So great.
I've met her a long time ago. I didn't really register her for a long time, but I knew she was around. And then I just saw her. It's one of these things that happens to me with young comics. I watched some of her special and I was like, holy fuck, why am I not talking to this person? She's hilarious. She has this special on Netflix called Lisa Traeger, Night Owl. She's also on the Netflix series Survival of the Thickest.
But it's funny that I've done a couple of these interviews lately with these kind of bombastic Jewish female comedians. And they just kill me. Actually, Jessica Curzon will be on Thursday show. So it's a big week of fucking hilarious women on this show.
Could not stop laughing. Los Angeles, I'm back at Largo tomorrow, April 22nd for an 8 p.m. show. Then I'm at Dynasty Typewriter this Saturday, April 26th. And again on Tuesday, April 29th, Toronto. I'm at the Winter Garden on Saturday, May 3rd for two shows. Burlington, Vermont. I'm at the Vermont Comedy Club for two shows on Monday, May 5th. And one show on Tuesday, May 6th.
Portsmouth, New Hampshire. I'll be at the Music Hall on Wednesday, May 7th. And then I'm in Brooklyn for my HBO special taping at the Bam Harvey Theater on May 10th. Two shows there. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets. Had something odd happen to me the other day, kind of. Odd and retro at the same time. You know, we do this bonus material and we did an Ask Mark Anything. And, you know, people send in questions and I answer them.
And somebody asked me, what are my favorite Lynyrd Skynyrd deep cuts? Someone's been listening. You know, I have this weird thing where I guess I have a fairly broad personality in some ways. I mean, you can pigeonhole me, cranky guy or neurotic guy or angry guy. You know, whatever you want, whatever box you want to put me in, you can put me in there. But those of you who listen to this know that it's a pretty big fucking box and there's not much of a lid on it.
And, you know, there are periods of my life that were kind of, is it, do I want the word anachronistic? But I don't think they're unlike some other people. You know, because of my proximity to the college when I was growing up and working at a restaurant across from the college and because of my fundamentally kind of New Mexico townie upbringing, you know, I've got many worlds in me. You know, I've got Leonard Skinner and I've got Brian Eno. And they both exist and they both bring me a tremendous amount of joy. I can go from
Brian Eno to Leonard Skinner pronounced just in the flick of a switch and be just as excited. I can go from Mingus right into ACDC PowerEdge. No problem. No problem. That doesn't require a big shift for me. I just have many. I have multitudes. What is it? See, I got Whitman in me, too, somewhere. Someone asked me also about my favorite poem. I should have thrown this one in there. I chose Whitman.
William Carlos Williams, The Red Wheelbarrow, because that one's succinct. That's the one I go back to in my head, but Song of Myself. Come on, Whitman. Here's the line. Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes. That's right, man. I can do it. Skinner and Eno. Equal space. Equal space. But anyway, my point was being that we had another one of these
horrendous school shootings and actually a fan of mine's daughter was was there and I got a DM through Instagram and it's fucking horrendous that they continue to happen and the only reaction from the political forces at in control is that yeah these things happen people kill people not guns and it the logic of it is ridiculous and disturbing and
That, but this argument's been going on. It shouldn't even be an argument, but this position has been going on forever, no matter how many kids die. And it's fucking heinous. And it's like a perfect example of the disease that is killing America. But the odd thing is, so I'm listening to, someone sent me a song list of the Skinner songs that I chose. And one of them was Saturday Night Special.
And it's on the album Nothing Fancy. And it's about a 38 special. It's about a gun. And it's really an anti-gun song. It's about a handgun, the 38 special. And there's several stories within it about people getting shot with them. And the chorus is Mr. Saturday Night Special got a barrel that's blue and cold. That ain't good for nothing but putting men six feet in a hole. So good lyric.
But I would consider that an anti-gun position by one of the seminal Southern rock bands. And you kind of associate the South with, you know, the sort of cold, cold dead hands thing. Can't take my gun away. So I was having this moment where everything came together for me and I hadn't listened to the song in a while. Even when I chose it, I didn't.
Think of it as an anti-gun anthem, you know, but I listened to it again. I'm like, holy shit. You know, this is an anti-gun song by some real rebel Southern rock guys. And, you know, I was kind of like, wow, well, that was ballsy back then, maybe, right? You would think so, that these guys of that ilk would do an anti-gun anthem. But what's very interesting is that at the end of the song,
It kind of so the last couple of verses, handguns are made for killing. They ain't no good for nothing else. And if you like to drink your whiskey, you might even shoot yourself heavy. Right. But true. And then the last verse is before the chorus is. So why don't we dump them, people? Oh, oh, wow. I misread it. It's all good. Well, that makes me feel better.
Oh, my God. I had this big point and it doesn't even matter. The last verse is, so why don't we dump them, people, to the bottom of the sea before some old fool come around here and want to shoot either you or me? It's empty gun all the way through. But I thought the last verse was, why don't we dump all people?
to the bottom of the sea. And I was like, holy shit, that's how deep that amendment runs is that the solution on the level of this band of these representatives of the American South is that why don't we get rid of all the people so the guns can live free of us?
But I misread it. I don't know. Should I even leave this in here? Oh, my God. You know, sometimes song lyrics, you know, you think you hear one thing and it's not. Do you find yourself eating the same thing over and over again? You probably don't want to do that. But I get it. Life is a lot. And you get done with a long day of work and you don't have time to search for new meals or pick out ingredients or learn how to cook something new. Well, Home Chef gets it, too.
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HomeChef.com slash WTF. You must be an active subscriber to receive the free dessert. You hear me? All right. Well, that was a tremendously funny misread of a anti-gun anthem, which turns out it was. Here I thought it was, but there was a caveat that at the end, you don't mess with the Constitution. You just get rid of all humans.
My brain worked with that for a while. I thought it was very telling, but it was also very wrong, having read the lyrics right here in front of you. All right, so I'll give you an update on Charles. You know, I think it also should be noted, if you'd like to note it, I noted it, that one of the things that made me realize that I was okay at this, at being on these kind of microphones,
was at Air America. This was, you know, that was put together to try to stop a second Bush II term, a second W term. And the politics of that time were dire as well. Not as dire as now, but seemingly they were because they were as dire as they could have gotten. But we didn't anticipate they'd get more dire. But that's besides the point. But the truth is, is that during that time,
We were doing a political comedy and we were doing political news and political talk. But I was also sort of developing my own voice on these microphones. And so much of it was built on cats. Really, so much of it was built on cats. I would say rescued four, five feral cats, kittens from my house.
back alley in Queens. And the narrative of that is what really kind of gave me a voice. These fucking cats. So, and also it was a nice reprieve for people during that time, the story of these cats. So here we are with another episode of where's Charlie at? What's Charlie doing? What the fuck is wrong with Charlie? Well, I can't answer that question.
But the struggle for me around medicating Charlie has sort of resolved itself. He's been off the Prozac now for almost a week, and he's back to himself. And I couldn't be happier. Yes, he's still running around beating up on Buster and sometimes on Sammy. But I will accept that. It's the behavior that I'm worried about when I'm away, but I'm going to try something different with that. Something less...
You know, maybe some gabapentin or this other stuff. You know, some people recommend, you know, CBD. Other people recommend Felway aromatizers. I got them all over the house, the Felways. And despite how they work for your cats, they don't work for mine. I didn't think they would. But I've had them on for, you know, over a week, two weeks here. And CBD, I don't know. I might go gabapentin. But the point is, what a relief in my heart and mind, and for Charlie as well, that I took him off this Prozac.
because whether I was projecting or not, what I sensed in Charlie on the Prozac was he had all his impulses to be himself, but he couldn't get to him. And I sensed a frustration there. That might've been projecting, but who cares? You know, you know your cats, I know mine. Some people think I anthropomorphize too much and that I'm reading into it, but he seemed frustrated that he could not be himself. And it was making me sad. So-
I took him off that and he's back. He's just the same guy he was. Very engaged, very excited, very intrusive, a little bit crazy, maybe a lot crazy, but he's not even three yet. That was the other factor. Like, what am I doing to this guy? So I'm thrilled to have him back. And I try to get in the way of him fucking with the other cats. And I've decided to get him more enrichments, more enrichment. I didn't know that word enrichments until I went to the North Carolina Tiger Rescue.
They have an enrichment for the tigers in the form of tires. I didn't get Charlie a tire hanging from a rope. It's not quite big enough for that. But I'm looking at cat trees, people. You know, people who have a nice house or enjoy the decoration or the decor of their house.
Eventually, if you have cats, you let go of a couch. You let go of some chairs. You'll put up with some stink. You'll put up with some things, some vomit. You know, you'll sacrifice furniture. You'll make exceptions. But the step to cat tree is a big one because then you're just giving your house to the cats.
They have it anyway, but if it's a big enough house or there's enough space, you can spread it out a little bit. But once you dump one of those big, ugly cat trees, and there may be nice-looking ones, but let's be honest, it is what it is. Once you dump one of those giant cat trees into a room, not your house anymore, pal. Nope. You've given in, and it's their house.
And that's where I'm at. I'm on the precipice of buying a hideous cat tree because maybe Charlie, with a little more enrichment, will settle the fuck down and stop beating up on Buster. But that might just go on for a while. Anyway, that is what's going on. That is what's going on right now. Looking at cat trees, Charlie's Charlie again. I guess I should give you an update on my parents. They're both hanging in. Thought I'd give you an update. Talked to my dad. Still knows who I am. We have conversations that are limited to...
The several hours of memory that he has, uh, or a memory of the several hours before I talked to him, but it's okay. My mom's okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, the conversations with my mom are like, how you doing? How you doing mom? All right. How are you? I'm good. What's going on? Well, nothing. What about you, Mark? Well, I'm doing this. I'm doing that. Okay. Yeah. So nothing you do. You're not doing anything fun. I don't know. Uh, not, not really. Okay.
Okay. Well, I guess that's it. I love you. But that's fine. Maybe I should call her after I do this. Just to have that conversation again this week. All right. So, look, Lisa Trager, this was great. It was a great comic talk. It was a great funny talk. It was, I love her. Her Netflix series, Survival of the Thickest, is now streaming. She's got a special.
On Netflix called Night Owl, this is me talking to Lisa Trager.
Folks, we're only a few months into the year and I've already been all over the country in 2025 doing my stand updates. I've been up to Napa and Sacramento, then back down to Santa Barbara and Monterey. I was in Colorado and back in my hometown of Albuquerque, then the Midwest. And it's odd, even when I've been to a town, that I'm always surprised and I always do new things. There are certain things I like to do that I always do. But I'd never driven over the Black Mountains of Kentucky. I'd never done all that. You
You know, when you get out there and you get out in the world and you get off the interstate, you know, you get to really take it in. And I've got plenty more travel to come as I build up to taping my standup special. Traveling is a big part of my life. And if you do even a fraction of the traveling that I do, you might start thinking about hosting your place on Airbnb while you're away. And now you can get a co-host to handle all the hosting duties for you. These are high quality local co-hosts who take care of your home and your guests and
Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. Your cat died 17. Yeah. Yeah, that's about the age where they start dying. Yeah. She had a good life. Yeah? Did you have it since it was a kitten? Two, since she was two. Oh, really? Yeah. In New York? No, Chicago suburbs, Skokie.
I was just in Skokie. I know Allie was texting me, but you guys were saying in the, like I was sending her all my recs, but why would you stay in Skokie, you know? No, we didn't. That's what I mean. Like. Is there recs in Skokie? Yeah. PETA Inn is like a famous lunch special. It's a Middle Eastern spot. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Well, what's the story in Skokie? What, I have no idea. Like we were just at that, what, she. The North Shore Center for Performing Arts. Yeah.
Well, Old Orchard Mall, how incredible. Outdoor mall. Gorgeous. But what Skokie is known for is having the biggest population of Jews after World War II outside of Israel. So the Nazis would come march. I knew that. And then when I was a kid, the KKK would come. Oh, really? And then there was also a hate crime killer. Was there a family outing when the KKK?
No, but we talked about it a lot in school and like, you know, freedom of speech. Right. I just, we had to talk about it all the time because the KKK would come. Yeah. And then the Northwestern. Just because of the Jews. Yeah.
Yeah. But it was also really diverse. Like a lot of Pacific Islanders, Indian people, Assyrians. Like it was really a diverse place, but I'm assuming it was still for the Jews. I wonder, like, because when you go into a place for a night, I had no sense of anything there. Yeah, because it's just like a suburb. Yeah. Is it just a suburb? Well, it's the biggest village in the world. The biggest village. Yeah. And we had an amazing award-winning library. I hope it's still doing well. Yeah. You know, I...
I have nostalgia for there, obviously. I grew up. It's like so suburban to me. I love taking walks there. But your parents are not from here. No, I was born in the former Soviet Union, present day Ukraine. And then we came over when I was three. Yeah. So were they part of that kind of like the Jews go? Like Eugene Merman's parents are from that. Well, so I was hanging out in the Hyatt lobby of JFL once.
And we had mutuals. And so we were at the same like little lounging area. And I was like, oh, my God, you know, I know about. And he goes, oh, we're not going to do this right now. And I went for sure, for sure. My bad. And so he didn't care. He didn't want to connect on the the Jewish expulsion from Russia parents. No, he didn't. But how did that work? Do you know how it worked? Yeah, it was like the Jewish United Fund and the government. Because in Fran Lebowitz's documentary, Public Speaking, she talks about how there was like a giant meat like.
protests in Washington and everyone talking and people like bring us here. And so I'm
I'm not, I don't know, but we had like a volunteer family in Chicago and they would teach us how to be American, got my mom a job. Like my sister would babysit for them. And then my sister would go to like, she went to private Jewish school for free. Like it was the community and then the government. But were they being like suppressed and treated badly in Russia? Yeah. Like you couldn't do certain jobs or go to certain schools. As a Jew. Yeah. Really? But I don't know how, because my mom, when the...
the conflict now happened with Russia and Ukraine. We were talking about it because I only speak Russian
I'm for Ukraine, but Ukrainians don't want to speak Russian anymore, which is fair. But is there a Ukrainian language? Yeah. That was like forced out because that was the whole thing. Like everyone had to speak. Is it its own thing or is it more like Polish or is it more like it's its own thing? But they all sound similar. But I don't understand Ukrainian or anything like that. But.
I had a Ukrainian tattoo artist. He's like, I'll never speak Russian again. There was like, we know a Russian speaking doctor. She goes, a lot of my patients don't want to speak Russian anymore. Can they speak English?
Barely. You know, that's why the doctor's like, I don't know what you want. We came here before. Yeah. But so when my mom and I talked, she goes, Russian, Ukrainian. We were Jewish. They hated, both of them hated us. Yeah. So I don't know. But my parents are older. They were born in 1938 and 1945. That's like my parents. Yeah. So what, your dad's like 86? He's 87, yeah. Yeah. My dad's 86. Yeah. It's crazy. It is.
My dad was 50 when I was born. That's crazy. Do you have other siblings? My sister's 10 years older than me. Oh, so he was 40, which is no youngster. No. Yeah. And do they still speak Russian? Only. Yeah. My dad's, it's broken English. And then my mom, when she worked, was in an office. But now they like. They just speak Russian? Yeah, they go to Costco. They'll like, they can talk. They can go to HomeGoods. Yeah. But. But they never learned it?
No, not really. And you're good with Russian? Yeah. I actually sometimes feel insecure about it. About your Russian? Yeah. Like, because I can do an English word here and there. I can, like, fuck around. My parents know me really well. But last time I was home, one of my best friends from high school came, and she's a Russian Jew, too.
And we were talking about Survivor, the TV show. My dad goes, in Russia, I want to know. And I explained all of Survivor, like the psychological intricacies of it. And I was like, oh, I guess I'm pretty good. Yeah. The nuances. Yeah. I was proud of it. But my driver here, my Uber driver, I could tell by his music. And I started speaking to him in Russian. He's Russian? Yeah.
No, but you could be like from Uzbekistan, from all these different places. And they kind of speak Russian? Mongolians. Yeah. Like, you know, you never know. Previous parts of the Soviet Republic. Yeah. And you knew he was? Yeah, but he was more darker skits. I assumed he was like from the other parts, you know, from. Did you speak Russian with him? Yeah, but he wasn't that chat. He didn't care. He didn't care.
You were excited? Yeah, I go with what they want. And so, but sometimes I'll have drivers that are excited or some want to learn English. Yeah. And so they want to speak English. Right. And so I'll do that too. Yeah. It's a wild thing. I can't even wrap my brain around another language.
That's what I mean when people like if I moved somewhere now, if I moved to France. Yeah. Would I learn French? No. I doubt it. Yeah. You just grew up with it. But your English is so good. Yeah. And my sister doesn't have an accent either, which is pretty wild. Did you ever? Oh, my God. No, because I learned English watching like Baywatch. Yeah. TV movies. But so Skokie, that's when did you leave Skokie?
Well, I went to college, came back. I lived with my parents while I went to college and did a lot of my stand up in Chicago. Where? In Chicago? Yeah. So it was all Chicago for you? You started there? I started in 2009 in Chicago. And then I went to New York 2014.
Then L.A. 2019. And then I went back to New York last year. Yeah. Last February. So you've been doing, so you haven't, you've been at it a pretty long time. I feel bad because I used to see you at the store, but I never registered. No, we would sometimes say hi. You know, I kind of go off, you know, I know who you are. You know what actually happened recently? You were at the Cellar. Okay. And.
I think we said hi. But the next day, someone mentioned a comedian who annoys me. And I was like, ugh. And I talk shit. Yeah. And they go, you won't believe it. Mark was here yesterday saying the exact same thing as you. And I was like, oh, fucking A. That's fun. So I got excited. Now I got to guess who it is. I know. Is it Mike Birbiglia? Yeah. He just texted me like, I've been like that with that guy for so many years.
I don't even know him. I just don't like when men talk like babies. No shit. And it's like, you're a grown man. Why are you acting like you can't say tits? Like, I just, I don't get it. Yeah. And I've always kind of, I've said that. But like, look, he's, you know, his craft is in place. I mean, he can do it, but he's just sort of like, oh, I'm just a dumb doughy guy.
But I don't think that's what he, I don't think it's authentic. No. That's my thing. And so I get like, stop talking like a baby. Well, it's a shtick. You fuck your wife. You have a kid. Like, you're a grown man. Yeah.
I never understood comics that like somehow land on a character. I imagine we all have a stage persona, but you're pretty much yourself. I'm pretty much myself. I think people that somehow figure out some kind of functional clown's mask for themselves might do better. But I spent all these years just trying to be me. Yeah. But just the idea that like you have this thing and everything's so deliberate when you're a weirdo.
On purpose? Yeah, I don't like to write set lists. I just want to be in the moment. You don't write a set list? No. Unless I'm like working on stuff, I try to just be in the moment. Well, I mean, like, right. But not jokes, but you write your ideas down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I write. But I don't, like, for my special, I didn't write a set list for it. I was really deliberate about that.
But had you been doing hours? Yeah, but I knew I was going to end and start, but then I like to just do the chunks as they come. Yeah. No, it's funny. It was a funny special. Thank you. Yeah. And I wanted to, because I've taped two half hours, and it was like the teleprompter with the set list. Oh. And I'm like, but I don't perform like that. Why am I doing that? Yeah. Was it distracting? Yeah.
It's just, I don't like being, it makes me not be how I am. It makes me feel like I'm putting on a pageant verse like this is how I do my show. I'm worried about that now too. What do you mean? Because like the more, like for me, as I'm doing a special in May for HBO and you know, I work these sets cause you only get, I only get a certain amount of time. So it's 60 minutes or 70 minutes.
And, you know, as I got older, I used to do it more like you, like on ThinkyPain. That was like an hour and a half. I had notebooks around. I didn't know where the fuck I was going. And people love that special. But then I got mad at people like Birbiglia and stuff. Like I got mad because they structure these things and they have these callbacks. And I'm like, everyone thinks a callback is fucking genius. Well, I can do that.
You know, so then I started to like, you know, what's the callback? So everyone goes like, oh, my God, it's from the other joke. And then I got into this structure zone. And then by the time you get to the special, you just fucking hate it. Yeah. But also you're at a place where people want like your more time, like in a year they want another one. Yeah, I guess somebody does. I don't even know anymore. Time limits of it all. But did you do yours for a place or did you do it on YouTube? It was for Netflix and it was...
Yeah, it was one hour Netflix. Yeah, because I can't, like, I don't have a YouTube presence. I'm not going to just self-
I'm old school. Like, pay me for the thing. No, in my head, I wasn't hearing back from... I got a lot of no's and no one really wanted it. And I was like, that's fine. Then I won't do it. It's not like I'm not going to not do stand-up. Who cares? And then a week later, I got the call. But I don't want... People are mean to me. I can't be on YouTube. I can't have people, like, call me fat all day. Like, I can't. Yeah. It's just not what I want. You can't not look at it. It's just... But that's not...
I should be able to look at comment, you know? Like, it bothers me. Like, I don't have that fan base that it would get the numbers right away, and I think that would fuck with me. That would fuck with me. And I didn't want mean comments. Yeah. I just... Like, Netflix...
Yeah. I don't know what people think. Yeah, I don't. I'm still pretty thin-skinned, but I pretend to suck it up, but it always goes in. It's like for a while, it's fine, it's fine, but it's always the same stuff. And it's like it has nothing to do with what's happening. Like, what is up? Yeah, yeah. It's just women get it worse, though. For sure. It's like we used to have a— Because there's a lot of weird-looking men, and their YouTube comments are spic and span. Yeah.
Yeah. We used to have a comment component on our site and we took it down because any woman that would come on, it was just sort of like they come out on purpose. I was just on little Esther, Esther Pivitsky's podcast. Yeah. And we were just talking about Tybo. The clip is truly about Billy Blanks and Tybo. Yeah. And someone commented, Lisa Trager is the human version of a pit stain. I go, what? Like, what could I have done? Like,
I was just like, damn, so...
Human pit stain. Jeez. I don't, I don't, I, I, as I get older, I, I just don't, I, I don't understand people. I, I, I think the best and it's just not true. It's not true. People are shitty and they're stupid. And they're, and it's probably what pisses me off is like, fine, then say it to me, say it. But you have no follower. This is a burner account. This isn't real. And it's like, Oh, how lucky you are that nothing you say ever gets heard. No one cares. You're just living this secluded life. Yeah.
fucked up things to people. I don't know. Yeah. I definitely fight in the comments. You do? Yeah, like about TV shows, like I follow a lot of Bravo accounts. So if like something's happening, I'll be like, oh, I'm on this person's side. That's what, like a couple broke up. So I was like on an account, watched a clip, wrote like, ah, I think he said something, blah, blah, blah. And someone wrote, whatever, humanity. And I was like, Jesus Christ. Like, this isn't even real. What the fuck? But yeah.
And it was just like me talking about a TV show. And I understand going back and forth, like, no, I actually think she sucks or this, but like, okay. Why you got to make it personal? Yeah. And the things that I'm obviously insecure about. Yeah. It's like, well, that's what I can only be so strong. But then you respond to that. No. Yeah.
See that, because that's where they get you. No, I don't respond to like that kind of stuff. And stuff that like is directly about you, like on YouTube, you don't respond to it? No, or some, I try, I don't even look at the YouTube. I remember I did This Is Not Happening and I liked my set a lot. Yeah. But I got, someone wrote to me going,
Love drew this is not happening who cares what the comments say, but I'd never looked at that Yeah, yeah, and I talked to our he goes. Yeah, they hate you and I go but why like what fuck? Because like he's and I feel if I was a dude they would love my bad my personality Yeah, cuz I'm like brash I say what I mean all these things that they admire and these male comedians. Yeah, I really don't like about me I'm just like an annoying person that bitches a lot. Yeah. Well, I just don't I don't think they really like women. Yeah, I
And it's fucking monstrous. Yeah. Like, I never understand who sits there and makes a decision, even if it's to fucking just tweet like, eh. It's like, what the fuck? Why is that an impulse? Yeah, this is terrible. You know, yeah, I don't know. So when you're growing up, like, are you living in a funny world? I mean, the stuff you talk about in your special about your dad seems crazy.
Yeah, I... But not like, you know, like dangerous crazy, just sort of... Just immigrant stuff. Not understanding the world around you, but also not caring about the world around you. Yeah. He doesn't get embarrassed. Oh, that's a problem. He just doesn't. He... So that's... Well, that's why... Probably one of the reasons he became a comedian is because when you have embarrassing parents...
It's like you just have to learn how to suck it up. Yeah, you have to translate. And no matter what they're asking you to ask the bank employee or the store employee or wherever we are, I don't have the authority not to do it. Right. So no matter what, or he was guilty of always being like, stand in line. I'm going to get one more thing. Yeah. That anxiety. Like he just had no care for me. He would come to my sports practices. What did you play?
I mean, the worst. Okay. I played basketball for eight years. Really? Yeah. But for like fourth grade. And then I swam throughout high school. That was my big thing. Then I just swam all year round. But I played football on an all boys team for one year in eighth grade. Really? Do you have bits about that? I had one old joke about it. It was truly like the worst time of my life, I would say. But I didn't want to quit because it was like for feminism. Okay.
I did it for feminism. What position? I was an offensive lineman on the lightweight team. Yeah. So I didn't understand football and never watched it. Didn't care. Yeah. And they would give me a number and I'd push the other guy in the direction that they told me to. And that was it.
Were you in the game a lot? Not very often, but they would put me in there. We weren't good anyways, but they would terrorize me in practice. Like what? I was just black and blue. Oh, really? There was a game where one person starts in the middle, we're all standing, and then everyone tries to run across. And everyone that person tackles then is in the middle. Right. And then you keep going back and forth, and it's a fun game. They would purposely leave me to the end. Yeah. So then they could all just beat the shit out of me.
Or it would be like the play would be over. We're all like walking back to whatever and someone would grab me and just throw me on the fucking ground or headbutt my chin. These are the same guys that are doing comments. Yeah. It's just a different form of what's happening on the comment board. And they wanted to talk different. They didn't want me there. Yeah. Like I remember the coach once was like, get these motherfucking pussies. And then truly turned to me and goes, sorry, Lisa. Yeah.
You know, like shit like that. Like they didn't want me there. And now you've got a dirtier mouth than any of them. Yeah, always. I don't. Yeah, that's another. So you're wearing shoulder pads and the whole thing? Everything. And white paint. All of it. But why did you seek that out? Because we were all the girls. We were in homeroom. Yeah. And there were flyers. And we're like, we should do it. We should fucking do it. And then I was the only one that went.
And then because of whatever I had in me, personality-wise, I was like, I have to see this through. Yeah. And so I saw through. For how many? Just one season. But you hung in there the whole time? I hung in there. And then my dad would come and embarrass me during practice and take photos and get involved. And one time I wore a new shirt and he would be like, why are you wearing the new T-shirt to practice? Like, truly no care. He worked at the community pool. Yes. Yes.
he worked at the pool. He would sneak me in. Everyone would see and I would be embarrassed that I was snuck in. We would sneak into the aquarium. Like, he didn't want to pay for shit. And I was just always kind of being dragged along. I mean, he spent time with me. Yeah. But it was always just like...
shadiness or go steal this or take another one or we're getting a rain check. And you think that was primarily because of how he lived in Russia? Just trying to hustle, get away with stuff? Maybe. And my mom's this like honest woman and I don't know how she ended up with this man. It's like such a nightmare. Do they bicker?
Yeah. Oh, yeah. They've never... Because now, after doing therapy and growing up, you know, you go home and you kind of see where your flaws come from. What'd you figure out? The defensiveness. Like...
When I lived with people, I had to figure this out. But hey, will you wash the dishes? Yeah. Well, you said like and it's like, who cares? Like say, oh, of course. Like it doesn't. They're not insulting me as a person. They just want me to do this thing. But it's everything is a personal attack in my home. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Can you turn it down? Why are like everything was a fight and a defense and a personal with everyone in the family?
My sister fucking left. She's 10 years older than me, so she left early. But with them, it's like, oh, where is this? I didn't touch it. I didn't say you touched it. I just can't find it. And it happens now because I have a sound thing. Like, if people itch denim or, like, material, I get uncomfortable. Like, it just...
I don't know what it is. That's the thing. Usually it's like, you know, loud environments or eating. I don't like loud music either. The eating doesn't bother me, but like material. So when I play backgammon with my father, sometimes his nails will like hit the little felt. The fork? The felt, yeah. And I just was like, hey, the noise really... And he's like, you and your mom never... You always find something wrong with me. I can't do anything right. And I'm like, it's not you. It's like truly, I just...
So, yeah, that was like a long journey for me of like not jumping to defense on things that could be a discussion. We also never apologized in my house. It's screaming, silent treatment and pretend nothing happened. And so when I started living with people or making friends in adulthood, I fell into a lot of problems because I had absolutely no conflict resolution. Yeah. And you would avoid it?
Avoid it or like quiet resentment. Yeah. I wouldn't say anything. I wouldn't say anything. And then I would explode in psychotic ways that someone didn't deserve. So are there a lot of people out there that are like, we had this fucking lunatic as a roommate? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I've ended friendships. I've lived with comics. Even my college freshman year roommate ended up moving out. Because? So this actually wasn't my fault, I don't think. Still on the fence about it? But I love having that knife. I left for class early in the morning. I leave the class, I have all these missed calls from her and texts.
Right. So I call her and basically I locked the door, but she was in the shower. Yeah. So she couldn't get back into our room. And so she had to go downstairs and get the key. But it's like such an honest mistake. Right. But she refused to talk to me, would not forgive me, would not see past it. Yeah. And I was like, I'm not living in this uncomfortable space. So my goal was like, I'm going to ruin her life until she moves out. Yeah.
How did you do that? I would blow dry my hair in the morning. I moved the TV so she couldn't watch it. She said I was like self-centered. I put photos of myself everywhere. I would play songs that would be like, she's a bitch. Like I would just play like loud music. And then when she moved out, she like ripped down my White Sox posters and like, you know, did something on the way out. Oh my God. Yeah. Has she reached out? No, I would love it. I wonder. I wonder. Were you willing to apologize? Yeah.
Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I wonder. I wonder where she is. I should try to find her. She had a pretty distinct name that rhymed. Yeah. I can't believe you haven't tried to find her. No, I haven't. I should. Were there moments where these things were, like, was there any sort of, was it a buildup of these moments that caused you to seek help? Or were there...
Was there one significant one where you were like, oh boy. No, I had a lot of toxic friendships and both ways, me and the person. And then my...
I had a really breakup that fucked me up. And I was too depressed for too long. And my friend was like, you need help. And then I started going to her therapist. Yeah. And that she made me realize a lot. But she was a kind of a witch, too. So I need to. The therapist? Yeah. She was like a witchy woman. Like crystals and stuff around? Not crystals. But we would like I would hit stuff to get physically moving. Like she just she's not a Ph.D., I guess. Not even a Ph.D.? No. Just someone like a hobbyist? Yeah.
I don't know what she was, but she did help me with a lot. But now I need a new therapist to pick up where she left off. Have you been diagnosed with something? No. No. There could be something. I don't know. I went and got an evaluation recently. And? And I haven't had one in, I don't know if I ever had one. Obsessional anxiety. I like it. What does that mean?
I am full of dread most of the time that like the jokes I'm doing about it on stage where it's like people talk about having any sort of resting mind. It's not I'm not capable of it because if my mind has any moment of rest, it's just sort of like, should we open up the worry folder? So like and it's not even things that are rational. I mean, sure, they could happen, but it's just my brain's constantly occupied with possibilities of.
That caused me, you know, dread and anxiety and all kinds of shitty stuff. Catastrophic thinking is very intrusive and it's and it's gotten worse. I've always been that way, but I always thought it was practical. You know, why not think of the worst fucking thing? But but the whole day.
Yeah. And just turn it around in your head. It's fucking nuts. I mean, I've got other problems, you know, intimacy, trust. I get a little, I don't know. Do you have that thing where if you have a friend, they're like your friend, you're the only one? Yeah. That was a pattern for me. That's a bad one. That is a bad one because, well, what my friend said to me once, she goes, you're having too many fights with people you're not fucking, and that's embarrassing. Yeah.
And that really stuck with me where I'm like, I have to stop having these intense friendships and fights and fallouts. I'm like, I'm sick of it. But another thing that therapist said to me that changed a lot of the way I live, and I'm still working on it. Yeah. But she said, not everyone's crazy. She goes...
If let's say all these toxic people, quote unquote, are using you, you have to figure out what you're using them for because it's a two way street and you really need to find what you're lacking in yourself that you're finding in these people. So you were you were hanging out with toxic people? No, I wouldn't say that. Together we were toxic. Oh, right, right, right. I think like us connected. I would get these deep like kind of what movies are made of. Yeah.
Because I wasn't dating. So it's like I would befriend another girl and we'd become best friends. And then let's live together and let's do everything together and let's write a show together. And then it explodes. Yeah. And I don't like that because I'm in the center of it. So I can't deny that I'm a big part of that. And I didn't want to do that anymore. I just had to shut it down. Like if I get like one good friend, like I have to sort of like hide myself.
all of my sensitivity that's irrational. Do you know what I mean? Like if I'm in a friendship that's too intense and I know that I'm like, dude, it's not their job to parent you properly. So if my feelings are hurt or I'm like, so why didn't you call me back or whatever? I just had to go through two thoughts. I have the feeling I'd be like, it's a little unreasonable and I just have to like sit with it until it goes away.
Yeah, when I feel like maybe it was just my friend group here, but I felt that more in L.A. than New York. Well, yeah, because here it's like who's invited, who's party, what dinner, what's happening. And in New York, it feels like.
Oh, cute. Oh, I was at this. Like, I feel like because you can just reenter, you can leave your apartment or a bar or whatever. And you're just part of this huge social fucking shit show here. Everything happens in these isolated things. So it becomes very apparent. Oh, you went to dinner with her. Why don't you call me? Because we didn't want you there. Like, what are we doing? Like, we're adults. You're allowed to. But it got really and with the pandemic. Yeah.
We're adults. You say that on your special, too. You just said it about Mike, too. Are we adults? Is that something you have to tell yourself? You're right. No, we're never adults because I do suffer from the same kinds of thoughts. That's like the saddest I get is when I realize I've been really dealing with the same problems for decades. Oh, my God.
Yeah, how many decades? I'm six decades in. I'm 37. It's fucking ridiculous. To have the same insecurities or behaviors that I had at 12 over and over is so upsetting to me. Like, why can't I break free? Because they're so deeply wired.
Yeah. Right? Yeah. It sucks. I know. I start to notice it in my jokes. Like when all of a sudden you do these jokes, you're like, I'm just rephrasing. Yeah, but this is actually amazing because this, my special now, and I look back at my half hour, I talk about the same shit. It's weed. It's like my lack of dating. It's family. It's the same. And I recently went to see a friend at a theater and I went...
Yeah, we all just talk about the same shit for decades. I'm like, it's different. I mean, I loved the show, but I was like, damn, we really are just talking about the same five things over and over again. Yeah. Nothing new has entered my psyche. I think some things have for me, I think. I don't know, man. It's just it's annoying because like I feel like I'm running out of time.
And it's like, am I going to resolve this shit? Is this going to like, am I going to figure out how to have a grown up, relatively emotionally healthy relationship? Do you have the same sensitivities with romantic and friendship of like being included and all of that? Well, I've gotten a little more isolated. I realize that I'm not included in almost anything anymore. Nobody, nobody.
Nobody invites me to a Seder. I don't have a bunch of comic peers that are like, hey, let's call Marin. No one ever says that in a group situation. Really? Let's call Marin. I almost think they're sort of like, someone goes, should we call Marin? And everyone else goes, I don't know. He's a little intense. Yeah.
The only time I don't want someone around me when I'm with other comics is someone that I can't talk shit with. Yeah. When people are like, can we bring that person? I go, no. They're not to be trusted and I would like to talk shit tonight. But I have talked so much shit. I've gotten myself into trouble talking shit. Me too.
You have? Yeah, of course. Because like then it's like you talk shit. Someone hears you talk shit about them or someone, you know, likes the person. It just becomes and then you have these you don't know who is looking at you like you talk some shit about them. Like it was like it's fucking crazy. Yeah.
I'm really shocked that you're not invited to group events. Occasionally, millennial invite me to things. Okay. But I really am starting to believe that I've become this kind of like old eccentric of some sort with a particular, the particular social vibe that
that certain people understand. I mean, there are people that know me and get me. Some people think, well, he's like a smug asshole or he's angry or, you know, he's kind of intimidating or whatever. But people who really know me are like, no, he's kind of like a hypersensitive nut job. And that's better. And those people, the few of them, they're like, yeah, let's have the hypersensitive nut job. Yeah, I'm friends with a lot of people who say they were intimidated or like scared of me at first. And it is so funny when people then know you and are like, that's funny.
Embarrassing I was ever intimidated. I'm like, yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, you're intimidating just because we're loud and emotional. And, you know, we say what's on our mind. Yeah. And most people don't. But then also now I'm thinking about it, like I don't always do that in relationships. Sometimes I just shut up, shut up and take it. That's what's bad. It's like I the closer you are to me, the harder time I have speaking the truth. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, because you have to you have to.
Navigate it. You have to like at some point you have to realize, like, I don't want to be unintentionally or intentionally hurtful. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because like sometimes you have to you have to make compromises. Yeah. Yeah.
For me, I'm just working on not being as obsessed, having bound, like having the friends I have not have it be all encompassing and not feeling ownership over. Like, that's what I'm really like. I'm meeting because I'm meeting new people when I moved to L.A. that I really liked. And I was like, don't you don't need everything from this person. Like, chill out. Have fun. Like, yeah. And I've I've had richer friendships for it. Yeah. I mean, I'm excited by that.
Also, I love having friends where I can cancel and no one's mad. You could just be honest, just real friends. I'm really actually not in the mood to do that. And I used to have such fear and the dread of doing something you don't want to do. I really love my people right now of being like, I'm not going to make it. Even if they're annoyed, I'm not going to make it.
They're not mad at you. They're not going to hold it against you. They don't see it as disrespect, you know? Yeah. I was just at the vet today. You know, the guy from White Lotus came in. Which one? Greg. Oh, cool. Okay. Yeah. And he's like an interesting guy. Yeah.
And, like, some days I feel like, well, I'm enough of a known entity in show business on some level. Yeah. I've talked to several people on that show. Have there been several? Yeah. Two, at least. Three. I've talked to Mike White. I've talked to Parker. I've talked to Kerry. I've talked to Walton. You know, like—
Whatever. It doesn't matter. I certainly don't have an inflated sense of myself in the business, but I'm not nobody. Yeah. And this guy walks into the vet and I see him. I'm like, hey, great job on that show. And he's like, thanks. And he walks by me. I'm like, all right. And I walk up to him and I did the thing like, I'm Mark Maron. And he goes, yeah, John. I think his name's John. And that was it. And then he walked away. And there was part of me that's like, what the fuck? Yeah.
And like, I had to fight the idea. Like, I had the thoughts that went through my head where I can tell him like, oh, I have a podcast. I've talked to Carrie and everything else. And I'm like, everyone has one now. Why don't you just suck it up? Maybe his dog's in trouble. You were in the forefront. You were in the forefront of podcasts. Do you bring that up a lot or no? What? That you were one of the first podcasts. Yeah, not too much, but...
But it was just sort of like I get upset when someone doesn't know me and I'm not mad at him, but I have to. It wasn't even dismissive. His dog could have been dying. I don't know why the fuck why he was at the vet. Do you know what I mean? But I'm sitting here going like, the fuck? I mean, like, you know how you know what I mean? He should know me or whatever. And I have to go through this whole thing in my head. It's like, let it go, dude. But it's a process. It's not natural.
To what? To get to that point where I'm like, he wasn't slighting me. It's almost like learned empathy. Like, you don't know what he's going through. You don't know why he's at the vet. You don't know, like, why should he know you? He seems like an odd guy. He might not even listen to podcasts. Who gives a fuck? Yeah. I know he's like a hippie-ish guy, I would say. I guess. I hadn't seen him since Napoleon Dynamite. Yeah.
I hadn't seen him in like decades. Yeah. And he showed up in White Lotus and he's good. I saw Leslie Bibb at SoulCycle and wildly I was going to do Watch What Happens Live that night, which has like been my goal for ever. Yeah.
And she's a big Bravo person. And I was like, this is, I see her at class all the time. I go, this is finally my moment. She's in where, New York? I've seen her in class and her husband here and in LA, but this was in New York. Like I know Sam. Yeah. Sam goes to SoulCycle too. Good for him. But I leave everyone alone. But at this moment I was like, this is my in. And when I went, Leslie, you could tell the look of fear. Okay.
And I went, oh, I'm doing Guatra. And then we just talked about Bravo. And it was like a normal interaction. And it felt like so good. But I could see the sense of worry. Right.
Of her. Of her at first. What is this? Like, great, I don't want to talk about White Lotus. Yeah, yeah. Like, what does she want? Yeah. But I was, I just wanted to talk about Bravo Show. Yeah. Well, how have they not, it seems like all they want to talk about is White Lotus right now. And I love, I like it. I do too. I'm into it. I like reading all the recaps. I'm a big Mike White person. Yeah. Big Vulture recap person. Jason Isaacs.
I only know him from Friends with Money, which is one of my favorite movies. That performance was kind of stunning. There's a lot of good performances in there. A lot of good facial stuff. All right, so how many times have you left cities because you made such a mess? Oh, like I caused so much trouble I had to leave. Just Iowa State, I would say. Just college. I got arrested twice in like a month. For what? Being a drunk, like lunatic. Like being a true maniac. Really? Yeah. Yeah.
And you spent the night in jail? I spent the night in jail twice. My sister then with her husband drove through a blizzard from the Chicago suburbs to get me. And then my parents were like, maybe it's a good idea for you not to go back. You keep getting arrested. And thank God I didn't stay in Iowa and finish. But I had to take a greyhound back and serve two days.
I had to go to, like, jail for two days. Really? What the fuck did you do? Well, the first one was drinking and driving. Oh, yeah. And then the second one was an interference charge. But if I was black, I would be like, I don't know what I would do. I truly fought the cops. Really? Fought the cops. And then when they handcuffed me, I went numb. They had to drag me. Like, my friend and I were going to have a sober night in because we were so, like...
She had some issues and I had that arrest and drunk driving. That's embarrassing. And then we downed a bottle of Parrot Bay in her dorm. We were just supposed to go to the gymnastics meet. Yeah. And then she punched through a fire extinguisher glass. Yeah. Blood everywhere. Right. The cops come and I'm just blacked out and I fought them. Slammed the door, like push, like truly physically assaulted officers. Is there video? I don't know.
I wish. I haven't even found my mugshot. I want to find my mugshot. Did you try? I've tried, but I should try harder now that I have all this crime research under my belt. I've got to try to find it.
So did you finish college? Yeah, but I went to, so then I went to Columbia College for one semester in Chicago. And then I ended up graduating from North Park University, which is an evangelical Christian college, but it was by my parents' house. Yeah. So I went to it as a commuter school. Like, oh, it's by my parents' house. I have to graduate for them. They really want this. But it was like a weird Christian college. What'd you graduate with? Sociology. Oh, yeah. You talked about that.
Yeah, love it. You do? I do. I think for a comic, that's a good major to have. Did you tangibly learn things? I think I just learned more about people. It's basic, and I'm probably saying this, but it's like people are made up of where they come from. And so you can't expect...
people to do things when that's not even a reality to them or they've never seen that or they come from places. It's just like understanding people, I guess. So it's helpful at home. At home.
But just like... I think it's like it rounds out your empathy, certainly. A hundred percent. Yeah. When you're at places and you're... Yeah, just learning of like, there are some people who don't see a life past age 20 because everyone dies around them. And so you're telling them like, you should care about your future. They don't even know what that is. Yeah. Things like that. Right. So...
When you get arrested twice and you're sent home from college, your parents, did they... They were happy. They wanted me home anyways. But they weren't like, we should get you help or anything? I had to go to alcohol class because of... Alcohol class. They force you to, but we just watched like Leaving Las Vegas, which makes you want to party. We watched just videos. That was alcohol class? Yeah. For the state of Ohio? No, I had to go back to Illinois. So I was living with my parents.
doing alcohol class, got my license suspended, and then started being a receptionist at a hair salon. Oh, that must have been great. Yeah, I receptioned at multiple hair salons for years. That was my job. That was like a day job I had. They must love you. I loved it. I was so good to certain... If you were a good client, I would go above and beyond for you. I would squeeze you in. I would get you the appointment you needed. But if you weren't kind, yeah, they're not available. Yeah.
You know? And then I was also shocked by the stylists that would be rude to me because I'm like, I control your money. I can control your day. I control these walk-ins. Like, what are you doing? And then the smart people were like, do you want an updo before you go out? Like, should I do your makeup? Oh, let me do your eyebrows real quick. And it's like,
I learned about that, too. But it just seems like as far as like a template for the things you're interested in, it seems like a hair salon. Oh, gossip. Yeah. Drama. Yeah. Also is amazing as a young girl to see young women making money, making real money, owning condos like being businesswomen. Yeah. For sure. You should do a TV show of hair salon based. I know. Right. It's just so many cares. So it's hard to make TV. Yeah.
It's so easy to have ideas and then so hard to write a TV show. It's so funny when you have an idea, you're like, this is an amazing idea. And then they're like, well, what are the episodes going to be? Like, you know, it's just. That's how I feel all the time. I finally met these two writers where I'm like, I think maybe we can make something. And I'm so excited, but I don't want to get overexcited and obsessive.
Yeah. But I finally met people. I'm like, OK, you guys, this might work. But it's been a year. It's so hard. Yeah. So, OK, so you you you you're a felon. Yeah. Oh, I got arrested one more time in Chicago. So I moved back home. I learned nothing. And I got drunk at a White Sox game and got arrested. Didn't make it to the third inning. Home opener. What would you do? What? You don't know. No, no idea. I was blocked out. I have no idea.
I just was let out on my own recognizance on the south side of Chicago with a bag with my shoelaces, and that was that. No.
No recollection. No, and then they dismissed it when I went to court. Oh, my God. Do you still drink? I do, but once I found—this was all pre-stand-up, and I think I found such purpose in stand-up. Well, when does that happen? 21. So after you finished college? No, I was in college still. I'm embarrassed. I was avoiding it. No, I went to North Park to be a gym teacher.
A gym teacher. Yeah, I just thought like, all right, I keep getting arrested. I'll go be a gym teacher. You don't have to work that hard. Summer's off. I like sports enough. Yeah. And then... Were you a good swimmer? I was. I was. But then I started smoking pot. But I had a JV record for the 100 butterfly. That's a hard one. But I was never the best, but I always worked really hard. Butterfly's a hard one. Yeah. For 100? Yeah.
It's pretty good. And I did it in the relays and stuff. Yeah. You need a good butterfly. You do. It's so hard. The ones that can get their hands up out of the water. It's so hard. I know. You really got to get it. I swam when I was a kid. Oh, you did? Competitively, yeah. What was your stroke? I think I was pretty good at breaststroke. You know, I think that like my- My feet wouldn't flex. Oh. For the weird frog kick? I couldn't. I cannot do it. Yeah. Yeah.
But I wasn't great. You know, it's just something my parents, my mom could dump us at after school. Oh, I was like morning practice and afternoon practice. You're swimming for school. For school. In the summer, I swam at like 545 in the morning in the outdoor local pool. No, we were like in like the kind of independent swim club circuit. Yeah. Like for like, I think we're on the Elks Club.
And then like one summer and then we were on the university swim club. What else did you do? Did you like it? I don't think I liked it because it was just so long and so boring. And everyone's running around in bathing suits. I think the best time, the best moment in swimming for me was one time where we're at the university swim club and it was during practice. And in the sort of shallow pool, there was like a special needs situation going on. Yeah.
And, like, at some point during practice, a guy with Down syndrome came out of the men's locker room just totally naked. And there was a little kind of like, what do we do? And they just had to bring him back in. I thought that was the best thing. That was the best. I never won much. I didn't, you know what I mean? I kind of fucked up. I couldn't backstroke. I couldn't do it. And I'd always turn over to see if the wall was coming. It was bad. Yeah.
I liked it. I did like it, but I also did theater. I was just finding my way, but that's why it's so- What'd you do in theater?
I, you know, me and little Esther went to high school together. No, that makes sense. We were in Godspell together. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was in a Kabuki play. Are you guys the same age? She's one year younger than me. Is she from Russians? No, she's like Finland, but she's Jewish. Yeah. But I don't... I love her. She's open for me sometimes. Yeah. She's the best. So you were... Oh, that's so funny. That makes sense. You guys should do a team thing together. We... I just finally did her pod, but it is so nice because there's...
No one else that knows me this new life and old life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but our parents live a mile apart. Oh, really? Yeah. And so did you go to the same temple or something? No. Did you go to temple? Not really. No. No, only like through my sister's husband's family. So for my holidays, my dad started going once he hit like elderly age. Oh, really? So now he goes every Saturday. He does? He steals the cream cheeses. He steals shit. He takes the little juice. Like he just cannot stop stealing. Yeah. Yeah.
So when you start doing comedy, what made you think you could do that? Oh, so, but that's when I switched to sociology when I was like, oh, I'm not going to be a gym teacher. I'm doing comedy. I saw Superbad. I wanted to write a movie like Superbad. I was like, oh, maybe I can write a girl movie like this. And so I signed up for Second City and then someone invited me to an open mic. And when I went, I went.
I think I could do that. And I went out bombed. Like couldn't, I couldn't even finish the time. I turned red. I was like shaking. And then I came back the next week. No, I was just sitting there to watch. I didn't even know what standup was like in my head. I didn't even think it was a thing. Right. And so then I spent all week writing jokes, came back,
And like killed. Yeah. And these guys were like, did you write all those? I'm like, yeah. And then I never stopped. And then I never went back to Second City either. Because once I found comics, that was like, I finally felt like I found my people. All right. So you mean Second City, the improv situation? Yeah. Like I stopped going to class. I didn't want to write. Oh, you went to class. When I wanted to write a super bad movie, I took like a writing class. How were you with the improv? I honestly didn't even finish. Because once I found open mics, I like never went back. Yeah. Yeah.
And who was around? Like, do you have a class? No. Of people? Who was still in Chicago when you started? Oh, Chicago. Yeah. I'm friends with a lot of the people that I remember. Because that was like, my first open mic was poetry music. It was like random. And then a week later that Sunday, I went to Shuba's open mic and I met...
So many people. But like, who were the pros that were around them? Well, Hannibal was our hero. But he had just left New York. And Holmes. Them, I didn't know. They would come back because then there was a JFL Chicago where they would come back and do the Lincoln Lodge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was a huge deal. Well, I saw you at the Lakeshore Theater. Oh. Yeah. Lakeshore Theater. It's now where Laugh Factory Chicago is. Oh, the old movie theater. Oh, yeah. With Janine?
No, it was just you. It was after a divorce. It was like your divorce hour. That was a heavy one. Yeah, I went. Because the Lake Charlotte comics come for free. Chris, what's his name? Who's the guy that ran that place? Chris Ritter. Yes, Ritter. Chris Ritter. Because then he booked the main stage for a while in Rogers Park. Oh, that's what, because I remember seeing a tell there. Yeah. So that makes sense. Yes.
Yeah, the Lakeshore was okay. Was I funny? Yes. No, I had a lot of pivotal moments there. I'm so glad they let comics go up there and we could watch from the sound booth. Yeah. It was, I'm so glad I got to see so many people. Yeah, because it was sort of a venue. A lot of alt comics and then regular people. I saw Judy Tanuta there. Oh, shit. Yeah. It was, and I remember, I think the reason I like to do comedy how I do it is because I went to all four of Attell's shows. I was 21. Yeah.
And all of them were different. And I liked that. I was like, cool. But he's also like a compulsive joke writer. Yeah. Well, that's when I knew I was like a cool girl when I started getting the Attell texts or calls. From him? Yeah. When I was like, have you heard this? And he was like, oh, I'm finally getting these. That was a big moment for me. I used to get them for very specific things. Like he texts like, do you do anything about masturbating in the Bible? No. No.
Yeah. I, uh, the Lake Shore. I remember that special. Did you open for him? I saw Bobby Kelly. I did like years, years, years later. I have at Caroline's. I used to open for him. Yeah. And we went up to Long Island once together. Yeah. And that was cool. Yeah. Um, where else? How's he doing? Thank God. I mean, I only see him late night at the cellar and he's just always bringing candy and being thoughtful and sweet. I don't know. Yeah, he's a sweet guy. But,
And then if I get extra attention from him, I'm excited. And sometimes he kind of just walks away from me and that's fine too. Yeah. See, that's one of those things you learn. Like, you know, that's growth on your part. Yeah. You get to know. Like, I've known him for what? Fuck. 40 years or whatever? 35 years? See, that's what I think is so cool about comedy too is I hope that like...
I know a lot of these people for decades, you know? It's like so cool to see people. And he does that to me. You'll see Atel after like five years. He'll be like, what? Yeah, like, yeah, sometimes I want more from him, sometimes less, but any Atel is good. Right. So, okay, so then you're in Chicago and you're figuring it out? Yeah, I'm just like, I'm going to college. I'm taking tons of credits. I'm doing stand-up. I'm waitressing at this point.
And then I started running a weekly show at this restaurant, this Chicago Joe's that I waitressed at. And it was the hip show. Oh, really? Three girls ran it, like me and two girls. And it was just where everyone came every week to hang out and eat and drink for free. And it was just like a hip show. Yeah. So when did you move to New York? How much time did you have? Were you working?
I wasn't, but I had done Chelsea Lately and Adam Devine's House Party, I think I did. And I got comics to watch for the New York Comedy Festival. Before you went to New York? Yeah. Those are my big things. So how'd you get booked on Chelsea Lately? So there was like a...
a showcase for comedy set that the New York comedy festival for comics to watch. And then a manager who wasn't a real manager is like, I'm going to manage you. And I went, okay. Yeah. And he got it for me. Yeah. And so that was the end of it. And well, I had to let him go because someone came up to me at a party and goes, why'd you pass on this thing? I go, well, I didn't know about that. And I go,
why'd you pass on this? He goes, I didn't think you should do it. I go, but you, you gotta, you gotta tell me, even if it's not the thing for me, why not take a meeting? Like for me, I'm like, I'll always audition. I'll always take a meeting. I don't,
Yeah. You're not at the place where they can just speak for you. So even that young, I was like, I can't trust you. Yeah, yeah. It was for Last Comic Standing, which I knew I wouldn't do. I'm a pretty dirty comic. But why not meet a bunch of comics and get flown to L.A. And fail. And meet Wanda Sykes. Who cares? Yeah, yeah. But he got me that. And I met Michael Cox there. And that was fun. And then from the New York Comedy Festival, they booked me on Adam Devine's house party. Yeah.
And that was like my first TV set. And then I timed New York perfectly. Me and Megan Gailey moved out together and I got JFL that year on Rept. Yeah. So I did good at JFL. So it was like right as I got New Faces, I moved to New York and then I booked an MTV show. When did Chelsea happen?
I would say like 2012, 2013. But you were out here? Was that out here? No, I would fly out. Oh, did you do the what? I would fly out to do it four times. How'd it go? It was fun. I mean, it was so intense. So I was so happy it was my first experience because she doesn't, like, at the time, she didn't come say hi to you. Yeah, yeah. She didn't prep. Like, it was just very intense. And Michael Cox would be like...
You only have seven minutes. You have to interrupt. Finish your thought. Don't let anyone get in the way. She needs to like you. Like, he just would... He just got me... Who's he? Michael Cox. Who's he? He works with... He picks the Tonight Show sets now. He works with the Tonight Show. But at the time, he was, like, the talent guy there. Yeah, yeah. And so he, like...
Oh, I know that guy. It just was so intense. Yeah, I did it a couple times. Not for me. That since then, every other show I've ever done, they're like, oh, check your notes. We can edit. Talk to the crowd. So it was like a crash course of like seven minutes. Survival. There's people that are older than you. I got to do it with Margaret Cho. Like people I couldn't believe. Yeah. And so...
Having him be like, you better fight your way and say your jokes. Don't let anyone talk over you. Like it was a good first experience. Everything since then has been really relaxed. Yeah. So you moved to New York on that after JFL and everything. So you had a little juice. Well, because that festival was so fun when I did New York Comedy Festival was so fun. And I did Matchless, which was a bar show that Michael Che ran with Nimesh Patel. Yeah.
He's funny. Yeah, and I remember Che was like, you should move here. And then everyone was drinking and having fun, and it reminded me of Chicago. And I was like, I need to come here. Have fun. Have fun. And we did, and then me and my friend, we shared a bed in a one-bedroom railroad. How'd that go?
Well, we caught our building super on the ladder spying in our bedroom window. Oh, that was what happened? Yeah. We were also sharing the bed. No sink. But we wanted to be in Manhattan, you know, like Carrie Bradshaw. Where was the apartment? Hell's Kitchen. Oh, 44th or something? No, it was 50th or 53rd, between 10 and 11. Yeah.
And so you left that apartment. Yeah, and we went to Williamsburg. And then in Brooklyn, I lived there for three and a half years, and other comics would come in and out. So the other two bedrooms, people would shift, and I stayed there for a while. Oh, yeah? You were the— The anchor. It was the least in your name.
I guess at that point, maybe. And then I made some money from like my Netflix half hour and I went and lived alone in Crown Heights and that ruined my life. It did? Why? I got carbon monoxide poisoned a bunch. What? Yeah.
How does that happen? I hear about that more and more. What the fuck is that? People, like, make sure your detectors are batteried up. The alarm would go off. The fire department didn't care. No one cared about me. Everyone thought I was like a Karen. So no one cared. But basically our neighbors set up generators in the basement.
Yeah. And that is what the fumes... And how did you... You can die from that. I can. So I slept with the windows fully open for months in the winter. I was just like shivering in my bed. What happened when you got the poisoning? Well, I didn't... So the alarm would go off. The fire department would come. They would air it out. The detector and they'd be like...
Yeah, there's monoxide. And they wouldn't solve it. I called, what is it, National Grid. Like, no one wanted to help me. And then my landlord would be like, you fucking bitch. Don't you call 911. Don't do this. This is my apartment. I'm like, no, this is really like a poison that can kill you. And the alarm would keep going off. The fire department would come. Like, no one helped me. Did anyone die in the building? No one died in the building. Thank God. And then there was this one night, and I was with my friend, Joelle, and she's over, and I go...
I don't really feel safe. I have a flight tomorrow, but can I just sleep over at your house? Yeah. And I slept at her house, got my luggage, flew, and then I had a voicemail on my flight to L.A., and it was my third-floor neighbor that said...
The fire department finally came. The alarm went up at our house. In our apartment, we have a gas leak. And also they broke down your door. They broke a bunch of my art, my framed stuff. Like the fire department finally did something about it when I wasn't there. After months and months of like pleading for help. Wow. Yeah. But I'm glad I'm alive. Yeah. I know somebody just died. They die in your sleep. Yeah. It's the silent killer. Yeah.
From heaters. Yeah. Generators, heaters, like all of that stuff. It's really dangerous. Is that when you left New York? Yeah. I was like, I need to get the fuck out of here. But that was July. I didn't move until December. I did...
I went from JFL that year to Ireland. I did Edinburgh. This is 2019. For a month? Yeah, I did the full month. And then I did like a UK Euro tour. That was a month in Edinburgh. I loved it. I know people hate it. I had the best time. Yeah. Yeah. I lived with Emmy Blotnick. If you know her, she's so funny. Yeah.
And she's just a great person. But I love doing stand-up, so it's fun to do it an hour. I saw 30-plus shows. I went to plays, circus, musicals, stand-up. I partied till 5. I loved socializing. So it was perfect for you. Yeah. I would go to spin class.
Like, I kind of thrive at a festival because you don't have to make plans. People are there. It's like social, but you can go to your it's like work. It's everything I love. Like, I really thrive at a festival. Maybe you should find some year long festival.
Yeah. Well, that's kind of what New York is. Yeah. Yeah. And then that year I like then lived with my best friend for two months in between and then moved to LA. And what was that transition like? Because you didn't stay. I didn't. I didn't love it. But I was also here for a pandemic. I booked a pilot. And after I filmed the pilot, it didn't go. But I was like, this is the life. Yeah. Are you kidding? Like in my dream, I'm like, I got to be a sidekick on a sitcom and I can work forever. That was kind of my...
So I go, so my agents were like, why don't you go to LA and like really work on auditioning in person and stuff. And then the pandemic happened. Nothing mattered. But I was just, it was an ABC pilot. And you got it. I got the pilot. We filmed it. It just didn't get picked up. But you see how much money you're going to make. Yeah. And then not only that, but like.
They got me a hotel. They got me a car, a per diem. They paid for valet. You know, it's people bringing you breakfast and complimenting you. And it's not like I'm a lead. I don't have to work that hard. I had three scenes. I'm fully memorized at this point. And so then it was just like,
And my outfit was a sweatsuit. I played a girl, a woman named Orange, who was a pothead. So in my head, I'm like, I got to book one of these, like Patton Oswalt on the King of Queens parts. Like that was my goal in a way. And then I finally booked a kooky roommate part, but it was filmed in New York. I was like, I need to get out of here. Okay.
Oh, but that was the plan. And now it doesn't even work like that anymore. It doesn't matter. Yeah. You just send in tapes. It truly doesn't matter. I also, my podcast co-host lives here, so it was nice in the beginning of our podcast to be near each other. Kara Clank. Yeah. What's the podcast called? That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. We recap an episode of SVU. We do a deep dive in the true crime it's based on. And then we interview an actor from the episode. How's it go? Good? It's going good. Yeah. It's a lot of work.
And it's dark, you know, like researching really horrific crimes. Sure. But so it's made me a more paranoid, intense person, I would say. Yeah. Allie opens for me all the time. She seems to be obsessed with it, too. Yeah. Like I won't turn the lights. Like I'm always waving to cameras at bodegas for evidence. Yeah.
So people can trace me for sure. I'm more suspicious of everything. But the pod is really good. And it was good to be close to her. But my social circle here was mostly married people with children. Those are my close friends. A lot of the comics from Chicago that moved here and...
That's just not the life. I'm child free. I'm single. I'm single. And I just love doing stand up. And I love when I'm in New York and my Saturday and Friday, Saturday are like five spots a night. Like, I really love that. Yeah.
And I like getting cash in hand. Yeah. At the end of the night, just throw the wad on the counter. Yeah, and I like chore. And I just love the train and the walking and the city life. I enjoy that more. Are you friends with Maddie? Wiener? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she's a little wonder kid. Everyone loves Maddie. Yeah. You two on a show together would be crazy. We did do a show together at the Cipriani Club.
For the ultra wealthy. Yeah. We went back to back. My friend called it diabolical. She's like, you guys going back to back is diabolical. That'd be a great double bill to tour with. She's like so great. I haven't met anyone who doesn't like her. Yeah. She's very, you're both very strong. And it's a very specific type of female energy. Yeah. Yeah.
She's good. I like a lot of the younger people. I feel like a vet, you know, I'm still young too, but there is like a new crop. Yeah. And it's tough. Like I've hung out with some 28 year olds and it's like, I get so hung over. Like I have to remember I can't hang. Yeah. But a lot of my older friends aren't partying like that. So then I'll like go out with a 28 year old and then be like spent for 48, you know, hours. I went clubbing a few weeks ago with...
Some youngsters? Some famous youngster. Yeah. And it was just crazy. Yeah. And it fucked you up for days? For days, yeah. I stayed out till 6 a.m. But I wanted that life. I was like, yeah, I'll go clubbing. It was just a seller spot that turned into clubbing. Yeah. So I was in a sweater. I was in Birkenstocks. Like, I wasn't planning to go clubbing. You weren't in the mindset? No. But I like to say yes. So...
This is an abstract question in terms of like watching your special. What do you think about the, you know, what do you think is going to happen with the Devil Wears Prada sequel? Oh, that's fun. I thought you were going to go a way different direction. That's so funny. I can't wait. Yeah.
I love that movie. Oh, yeah. It's so good. I actually, this was when I first moved to New York in like 2014. Henry Kapurski is the composer. Yeah. And he made, we did The Devil Wears Prada with the music from Wicked. And Matteo Lane was Anne Hathaway. Bowen Yang was in it. Matt Rogers, like all these people. And I was Adrienne Grenier.
And we sang this music from Wicked into Devil Wears Prada. It was so fun. Yeah, it's one of those movies where I don't know. I don't even know why I think it's a guilty pleasure. I don't think I seem like the kind of person that would like that movie. But I watch it all the time. What do you mean you wouldn't see a person that would like it? I don't seem like the kind of person that would like that movie. That's just like...
Because it seems like a chick flick or whatever that is, but it's like a movie with substance. Oh, yeah. It's good. And good characters, and it's funny and quotable and comforting, and it's long. It's nice for flights. Yeah. What did I watch? Yeah, I re-watch movies on flights all the time. Me too. I watch Burning Man. Man on Fire. Is that it? Or Burn After Reading? No. Or Man on Fire? Man on Fire. With Denzel? Yeah. Okay. I've never seen it. Okay. It was pretty good. Pretty satisfying.
Maybe I'll do that. I did Trap yesterday. What's that? It's Josh Hartnett. It's the latest M. Night show. It was really bad. It was bad? It was, but I'll watch it again. Oh, what did I end up? Oh, I watched The Equalizer, the first Equalizer. Okay, you're in a Denzel moment. Yeah, a little bit.
A little bit. I want to go see Othello. Do you? I do. If it's, yeah. Well, a Real Housewife of Atlanta producing it. Is that true? Yeah, Candy Burrows. I wonder how it is. I don't know if I've heard good things, but I don't think I've heard anything. But the vibe is not great. I want to see him on the stage because, you know, he's very much like I'm a theater actor that does movies. I'm not a movie star. That's like a big thing he says. So I want to see him on the stage. Have you, how are you with Shakespeare?
In, oh, like watching. Yeah, watching it. It's like so hard. I haven't done it in forever. I can't follow it. That would be hard. And I get like so unnerved. But our theater department in high school is good. We did every other summer and I got to do it. It's a one week stage combat Shakespeare. Oh, yeah. Intensive. Yeah. So it was like eight, 10 hours a day and we would learn how to fight with swords and then we would do scenes with the fighting. Oh, that's good. Yeah, it was so fun. And how do your parents feel about your career?
They're pumped. They're pumped. Like, I have freedom, which is...
Yeah. You know, I'm living this like special life. Yeah. And my mom loved Hollywood and she loved the movie Some Like It Hot. And like, you know, she was so poor in the Soviet Union, but like she would go to the movies and the front row was always cheaper and her and her friend would go. And she just even as a kid would go to the movies every week. Like we just we watch the Oscars. We love it. We got People magazine. And so it's like.
I like giving her tidbits or like how being on set is or anytime I meet a celebrity, we get to bond over that. And she loves it. Yeah. And it's kind of me living out her dream that she could have never done. Oh, yeah. Ever. What does she do now? She's retired, but she was an accountant, like a bookkeeper for a company that did nursing home books. So it's like, whatever. You know, but it was the first job she had in America and then she kept it. My dad was a school bus driver. And what about your sis?
She is a teacher, but she quit her job from this one school after 15 years. Basically, with my sister, she had to be mature real fast. She was a teen when we moved here, so she had a lot of responsibility, and we were also poorer. So she had to really find her own way and pay for a lot of her own stuff, and our parents were clueless. And so she got married at 22 to her high school sweetheart, who's one of the best men I've ever met in my life. Shout out to Elon. And then...
First kid at 25, and then she had three kids by the time she was 30-something. So right now, she's going through a little bit of a second adolescence. Oh, really? Yeah. Having a good time? Yeah. So she quit her job, and then her and her husband are like, he's working, but they rented a house in Mexico. They're staying in Mexico. They are going to Imagine Dragon concerts. They're doing mushrooms. Okay.
They're like, you know, she got a tattoo. Like, she's just kind of doing all this stuff. That she couldn't do. That she couldn't do. So she's sending photos of her, like, eating oysters in the day with a cocktail. Stuff like that. And her kids are late teens, early 20s. And she deserves it. So she's, like, in a different spot right now. But she was a teacher and head of technology at a school for a while. Oh, that's cute and good. Yeah. Yeah.
She like started smoking weed and we bonded over that during the pandemic. But she just, you know, got married so young. Yeah. Well, that's good that she's it's OK. It's not a dark story. Yeah. But it's, you know, it's a little midlife crisis. Sure. But not a crisis. She says it's not a crisis. It's something she like. She doesn't like. She's got a good spin on it. She has a really good spin on it.
But she's always been in charge of her family, so it's good that... Oh, good. And what are you doing when you're out here? Anything? No, just I came here to do the pods. Yeah. The fun pods. To push a special? Yeah. I mean, they're not going to promote it. I mean, I paid for PR for four months. What was the deal? Was it one of those sort of like, we'll give you this... Okay. But I spent all my money on the production. Yeah. But you broke even? Yeah. That's good. Probably not when you incorporate like... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The stylist you hire for all the press, you know, all these things. But yeah, pretty much. Yeah. And how long has it been up there for? It came out January 28th. And, you know. We have no idea how it's doing. Yeah. I had a couple phone calls that first month, but now it's whatever. Go find it. So for me, I'm like, I'm going to keep promoting it because I'm proud of it. And it's like.
Yeah, it's really funny. I feel like it's my life's work, you know? Yeah, sure. So I want people to watch it. Yeah, well, good job. Thanks. I don't want it to be... Is this over? Almost.
Why? Give me a warning. Give me a heads up. Now that I know it's ending, it'll be okay. Do you have some way of landing? Not at all. I just never want things to stop abruptly. Oh, because I thought you were like, what am I going to do now? Where am I going? This feels like a big milestone. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you did it. Yeah.
What's it called? Rite of passage? Yes, that's the saying I was looking for. Yeah, that's what I am now. It's like, you know, I don't know how many people listen anymore, but, you know, you should go over there.
I know. I was telling Allie, I was like, put in a word for me. I want to come in. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, we still got like all our audience. Everything is all good. People like when I talk to comics. I think it was fun. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I remember the first. Well, you missed the original. Louis C.K. said my name on here once. Oh, really? Yeah, because I was in Horace and Pete.
And so people, I remember that was like a moment I got a lot of messages from people. Oh, with the big Louie episodes. And that was exciting. Yeah. Yeah, that show, I mean, I had scenes with Jessica Lange and Alan Alda. It's still the best thing that's ever happened to me, I would say. It's so trippy, too. It's weird. I was just sitting next to Stephen Wright. Yeah, yeah.
It really was. That was cool. Where did Louis find you? At the cellar. I knew he was in the room and I was like, oh, I have to rip it. I'm like, I really have to rip it. And he was like, I think I have something for you. And I was like, uh-oh. In my head when I was invited to the house, I was like, I wonder what's going to happen. But then Edie Falco walked up the stairs as I did. And I was like, wait, is this like, what the?
And I know they were all in his house and I couldn't believe it. And they were doing a reading? Yeah. Wow. And then I got to, like, some people couldn't make the reading. So I got to read scenes as other characters with Steve Buscemi, with everyone. I mean, it was wild. And I learned such a huge lesson during that because I saw Jessica laying napping on a couch in a hallway. Yeah. And I went, if she's doing that for SAG minimums, who the fuck?
Like the people that are diva, like, I don't know. It just sometimes people get really successful or on a job and they're annoying or rude or mean. And then you see this legend napping on a couch for no money. And it's like, OK, that's what actually great people do. Right. And that was like a beautiful early lesson. What's your next show? Dynasty in two hours.
No, I mean on television. Are you filming something? Are you in a movie? Yeah, I've got this Apple series I did with Owen Wilson that comes out in June. We did 10 of those. It's about golf, which I know nothing about. I got a movie I did. I played the lead in this indie that...
I guess they're finishing up editing and stuff. They're going to try to get it in Toronto. I did a small, small part in that Bruce Springsteen movie with the two Jeremy's. Okay. Jeremy Allen White and Jeremy Strong. Did a little part in that. Did that come out now, right? Not yet. Nope. I'm in the bad guys too. Stop. Yeah, I was in the first one. I'm the snake.
Wait, do you have merch and stuff? No. There's no toys or little stuff? Well, yeah, there are, but I don't have any. You gotta get them! Alright. Being a cartoon's the coolest. Alright, I'll get a snake. I'll get one. Get the snake. Alright, good talking to you. Thanks. Yay. There you go. Fun, right? You can watch both seasons of Survival of the Thickest and her comedy special Night Owl on Netflix. Hang out for a second, folks.
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Hey, four years ago this week, COVID was still keeping us from having guests in the garage, but I wouldn't let it stop me from talking to the one and only John Waters. Did you quit smoking? Oh, yeah. I haven't had a cigarette in, I write it down, every single day of my life. I have not had a cigarette in 6,616 days. Wow.
So, but it's, and it seems like you must make yourself think about it every day. No, I just don't want to ever write one again. No, I see people smoking now in the corner and think, Oh, it's the only thing in my life I regret. I used to smoke five packs a day. I know. I was talking to my producer. He pulled up that ad that you did to not smoke in the theater. I don't regret that. No, that's funny. But I regret smoking that cigarette. I know I smoked a lot. Because when I was young. Yeah.
They said that smoking menthol, doctors recommended it when you had a cold. Why aren't they in prison? Yeah. That's a good question about a lot of people that did those things. That's episode 1220 with John Waters, and you can listen to that for free on whatever podcast platform you're using right now. To get every episode of WTF ad-free, sign up for WTF+. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF+.
And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST. Here's some guitar. Yes, just, you know, the things I play. ♪
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Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere.