536 | Getting Personal With Personal Finance | Ron & Ginger
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Hey, it's Brad. Before we get started with the episode, I wanted to pass along some incredibly exciting news in the Chooseify world. As we talked about on a previous episode, Jonathan has spent the last couple of years building something incredible, and we actually just rolled it out. This is our brand new Chooseify member site. It's obviously entirely free to sign up for. We're hoping this will take the place

of our Facebook groups, both for the main Facebook group and especially for our local groups. So how this is going to work, you just go to our main homepage, choosefi.com, and you will see front and center, register, sign up for an account, log in. It's really, really easy. We made it as simple as possible. So right now, Jonathan is...

building this in public. Every single day, he posts an update with the 20 or 30 things that he updated from the last day that people reported that, hey, I want to see this. I'd love to see this new feature. How can we do this? This is the ultimate crowdsource personal finance website and community. We finally built it. We've

dreamed of this since 2017. We finally have the technology. We are not beholden to Facebook anymore. We can actually send out events and you will get emailed notification of it. So it's not just the 1%. If you get lucky that Facebook shows you the notification now for your local groups, when you sign up, you tag, Hey, I'm a member of this local group. And when your admin sets up an event, you will get email notified. So you can't possibly miss it.

This is so exciting. We already have thousands upon thousands of people that signed up just in the first three days. And I expect there to be tens of thousands before very long. So I wanted to jot this off before the episode started, go to choose a fight.com, our main homepage and sign up for an account today. Okay.

Hi everyone, it's Ginger, and I am here today with Ron Babcock, who is a TV editor, a stand-up comedian, a dad, a husband. I don't know a lot else about him. I know that he's on the FI journey. I'll tell you why I wanted to talk to him. I met him at a FI event, and my thought was...

What is this guy doing here? Right? Like he seemed too cool to be at an event about financial independence, right? He's got this cool job. He's got this cool look. He did a cool standup act for everybody. And so,

I really wanted to talk to him. And thanks for joining us today. And I want to start with this question of like, what were you doing there? How did you end up connecting with this community? Well, first of all, Ginger, I can't wait to tell my wife that I'm cool. Okay, because she will argue otherwise. But I do maintain that there was a good hot second a few years ago where I was like, I felt like I was legitimately cool for a second. And then, you know, you have kids.

I went to that event because I'm friends with Alan Donegan. And I actually heard him. I think I heard him on Choose Fi. And he had mentioned he was taking one of his mini vacations and he was going to LA and he was writing a script. And so I just messaged him. I was like, hey, man, I'm like in LA. I like this Fi stuff, but I don't really know many. I didn't know anybody else. I never...

had gone to a meetup or anything. And so I was like, you want to hang and like talk scripts. And so we got together and we, we were really nice time. I ended up like inviting him to the studio I was working at. He came over to my house and we went to the gamble house in Pasadena, California, which is where doc Brown lives and back to the future. And he was like a big back. So we just like hang out, had fun. And he just hit me up. He's like, Hey, we're doing this like financial independence thing.

thing in Vegas. Do you want to come do stand-up at it? It'll be like a surprise. And I was like, sure. And then my wife wasn't worried because she was like, well, if you guys go to a strip club, at least you'll be on a budget. So she was like, yeah, go have fun. And yeah, so I went and I had a really, really good time. I actually refer to my notes that I took from that weekend pretty often. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I don't really know many people doing this or

It's weird. So it was really nice to meet other people in person who are doing this and where you're like, I'm not the weirdo. Yeah. Because I feel like sometimes I'm very much the weird... And I'm very comfortable being the weirdo, but it was nice just to be around other weirdos who were just...

I love talking about money. I wish it wasn't weird. And I find that generally I have to watch myself. But at a FI event, people were like, whoa, we're just putting it all out there? Okay. And it was great. And so I felt very comfortable. I love that your answer was, yeah, I was connected to the other cool guy at the FI event. Yeah.

a lot of really interesting cool people at that event i'm very glad that i went so it's just nice to see people who are further along down the road yeah it feels i don't know because i'm kind of in the what it's not like that i'm i'm in the rinse lather repeat phase it's like yeah i got it i understand like how to get started i got everything automated and now i'm just kind of going through it and to

And to be honest, I'm at the point where I don't really think about it too much because I don't know. Like, I like what I do for a living. For me, it's just kind of all about just that sense of security and knowing that whatever life throws at me, like for the most part, I think, you know, we'll be okay. And so that gives me a lot of peace. And like, I sleep well at night. Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about you said it was it was nice to be around other people who are doing this.

And I assume that you mean doing this is taking a lot of steps towards financial independence. Is that what you mean? Yeah, or just really thinking about it and thinking about that long-term thinking that I think not a lot of people do. And having that be like... People do financial independence, I find, tend to... Their default happens to be long-term thinking. And I don't think that that's the normal thing in society today. I think it's more short-term thinking. So just to be around people who's kind of...

metrics or the way they look at life is through a long-term lens and have that be the default and that be the basis of which they make decisions upon. That was nice to be around, you know, where I wasn't,

I didn't have to like justify anything. Of course, people would be like, you would be planning for this, that and that. That's very like, you know, efficient. I mean, I don't know how it's not a room full of engineers is a very like engineer type vibe of people who just want to optimize everything. And that's who I am. I'm like a systems guy and I try to have things very optimized. And that's who I am, like in the relationship with my wife. I'm the one who kind of sets things up and tries to make it easy, you know, so we don't have to worry about it again.

So it was cool to be around people like that. Well, you know, I hear what you're saying about this isn't really the status quo and most people don't build their whole lives around long term thinking. So how did you kind of come to this?

I was working on a Muppet Babies to show for Disney Plus. And sometimes in TV, you kind of get to a point where there's just nothing to do, like in between seasons. It's like, you know, you show up late, you take a long lunch and you leave early and you feel weird. And people are just like, just enjoy it while it lasts because like it'll last for like two weeks. And then it's just craziness again. And I was talking to one of the board artists and

I can't even remember her name. I think it was Elise. I don't know. But she was just like, somehow money came up. And she was like, oh yeah, I'm really into Mr. Money Mustache. And I was like, oh yeah, tight. And I had no idea who that was. And so I just Googled it because I was just like, that's a weird name. And I came across the 4% article and I read it. And I was like, huh. And I was about to close out of the website. And then for some reason, I was like, I feel like I should bookmark this. And then I had nothing to do. So I was like, well, I'm just going to start reading this website.

from the top. I thought I was like, no one had ever done that before. And I realized that's like the most basic thing. So I started doing that. And because I had finally got to the first time in my life where I had extra money, like I started this job where I work as an editor in animation and I also do standup comedy. And for many years, I would just try and do standup and standup is a lot of fun, but my God, it is very difficult to earn a living at. And I think I got to a point where I was like, you know, about

I was definitely a lot in debt. Pursuing your dreams comes with a price. And it's credit card debt that people want you to pay back. And this whole time, I would be good at editing. I would edit the little dumb comedy sketch videos my friends and I made. And I was known in the scene as like, oh yeah, that guy knows how to edit. And so people would hit me up for jobs. And usually I'd be like, no, no, no. I'm trying to do stand-up. And finally, Muppet Babies fell in my lap. And it was all the reasons I would use to turn down jobs

It was close to my house. The rate was fair. Preschool is a lovely place to work because just the vibe is so, I don't know, positive and nice. Everything about it. I met the co-workers. I was like, oh, these people are awesome. And I'm like, Muppet Babies was my favorite show when I was a kid. So I was like, I have to work on this show. So I worked on it. I paid off all my debt.

And I was saving and I had all this extra money. And that was the first time I ever had extra money in my entire life. I was like money where I don't know what to do with this money. And so I was just saving it in my normal bank account, just cracking the ceiling with my 0.01% interest. And so I'm like, what do I do with this? And so that board artist mentioned Mr. Money Mustache. And I was like, oh, I could do this with this. I could invest this. And so that's kind of like...

how I got into it. And I went through all the podcasts. I did like, you know, I was doing like Paula plant for a while. And I listened to like the minimalists, which is kind of like, it's about stuff. It's adjacent, you know? And then I kind of like, I got what they were saying. I was like, okay, good. Then I kind of found choose a fine. And that's like the one that I've actually, that's the only one I listened to just because I really enjoy the vibe of the podcast. I love that. I love that. It's never about Brad. It's always about the idea. I'm a big fan of that. Like, I love that. It's just about the,

the thing. And so I've kind of just been taking things I've learned and just slowly instituting them over time and just trying to make it like a little bit better and a little bit easier. So it's been a slow, I kind of found out about this in like 2018. And I feel like I was really good with it in the beginning because I was like on

on my own. And my wife was then my girlfriend and we had split finances and I was putting away so much. I was so proud of myself. I was like one of those people who was doing those gnarly amounts, throwing them in. And now we're married. We have a child. It's like I just...

I'm so glad that I was so hardcore about it in the beginning because, you know, it helps with time. But now it's definitely, I feel bad. Like I'm not doing enough now, but for like a single income family. So it's like, you know, we still got to live. So yeah, that's the thing I'm struggling with now. What's the end goal here?

I don't know. I mean, I really like what I do for a living. I love it. I just wish I didn't have to do it all the darn time. I just feel like so much time is spent editing. And it's like, I wish I could do this for like 25 hours a week. And I don't know if there would be part-time opportunities available. Maybe I could pitch that. Part of me feels like it might be a thing where my wife's in grad school now, and I

I could see a switching in a few years because the state of the industry is kind of not great. There's a lot of turbulence right now and there's AI coming in and studios aren't spending as much money as they used to because nobody watches TV anymore. I mean, come on. How many people watch TV? Most people watch TikTok. So you're not even going against other streamers. You're going against like...

a billion people making stuff for free in their bedroom. So it's the industry's in flux, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And so there might be a scenario where maybe we switch and I stay at home with the kids, hopefully. And my wife goes back to work, which I would be, Ginger, I would love to be a house husband. The dream. Oh my gosh. I would kill. I would just murder being a house husband. I love to cook. I love to clean. This could be my world. And I would be totally happy doing that.

You love to be around screaming children. It's your thing. I could take them. I mean, it's one of those things that it is hard though. If I have to do child duty for a couple of days, my wife's sick or something, I'm like, oh God, this does get hard. And there's just one of them. So what happens if there's two? Yeah. But ideally the end game is ultimately just to have choices. Yeah. I would love to not

Let's say like the industry changes so much where it stops being fun. Like I would love the option to not have to like, well, you still got to work. You still got to earn a living. Yeah. I hear you on, you know, I thinking about, Hey, my job might not be around or it might not be around in the same way.

And I want to be able to have options when that happens. I think that's a huge thing, a big reason that people do this kind of thing. And then I think there's this other thing that we don't think about. I certainly don't think about, but the research says that we should, which is that we're going to be different people in five years or in 10 years. And I think, gosh, you're saying, I love it so much now. Do you ever think maybe I won't love it?

Yeah. I mean, sure. It all depends on the show you're on. Most of the shows I've been on, I've been pretty grateful where the showrunner has been cool and awesome. I did a show called Clone High and the showrunner was great. I had our first child happen on that show and they were so unbelievably kind and understanding. And they were like, do your thing, family first. And not all shows are like that. And so that was great. But if I was in a different place where they were just

I don't know, toxic or abusive or something like that. That's kind of one of the reasons why I like working animation. There's live action is like, it's a lot more ego in live action where animation takes forever. So you're with people forever. So I don't think you can get away with bad behavior as much because you got to be around these people for like,

You're not around for three, four months. You're around them for a year and a half. It took a year to make an episode of Muppet Babies, from script to finished product. It takes a long time. So you got to work with these people, man. You can't be...

you know, mean. So anyway, that's why I like animation and I also just love animation, but yeah, it's, I don't know. It's I lost my train of thought. I'm sorry. Oh, I was just saying, well, what if you do ever think about like, maybe I won't be interested in doing it anymore.

Yeah. I mean, I think that is, it's weird. Like, I know what you mean, like that research that says you're going to change. Cause I look back at myself who I was in my twenties and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so different. And then I look at myself in like 10 years. I'm like, I'm going to be exactly the same. I'm like, what? Although I would say that I think that the changes that I would make from say 40 to 50 are going to be less than the changes I made from 20 to 30, just because of how much an idiot you are when you're 20. I don't want to speak for you, but for me, like huge,

Goomba, you know, just, oh my gosh. Like I look back and cringe, but yeah, I mean, there's a world where I don't, I guess at the end of the day, the takeaway is I just want like options and security. And that that's for me is like the security of it all, knowing that we would be okay. And it's actually already come in handy. So,

I was unemployed for 10 months last year. So the writer's strike hit. And I don't know if maybe you ever heard about that or people heard about that. And it's funny. I talked to my friends back in Ohio and they're like, is that a big deal out there? And I'm like, yeah, it's all literally anyone talks about. And after the writer's strike, the actors, SAG-AFTRA, they went on strike.

And then there was a whole thing that IATSE, which is the union that I fall under, that's what the editors fall under, was going to go on strike. Anyway, I was off for 10 months. And we're a single income family. So that's like a long time to go. Yeah.

And yeah, you know, I had my emergency savings and I burned through that like 10 months is like, you know, they say plan for three or six, you know, anyway, 10. So, you know, our costs went lower because I was obviously just at home. So I would spend a lot of time cooking. And I, to be honest, I loved it. I framed it as this is my mini financial independence break.

And I absolutely, I had the best time. Like I just hung out with my son all the time, went to the beach, went to the museum. We just kind of like rode bikes. Like it was just like, if it wasn't for income, like I could just keep doing this and be totally happy. It was just great. But you know, you needed a,

a job. And so there was a point where I had to like cash out a little bit from my investments just to keep the train going. And yeah, it was like the first time I ever made a withdrawal. And there was part of me that was like kind of bummed and be like, I can't believe I'm cashing out. That's the one thing they say, don't cash out. You know, I was like beating myself up a little bit about it. But then I was like thinking like, if this wasn't there, like what would we have done? Like I would have had to go to family and just been like,

hey, times are tough. I'm not sure when they're going to get better. And it was, it felt so great to be able to like handle my business and keep,

my family, like safe and happy. And like, it wasn't like anything, you know, and it wasn't a huge amount and it's already replaced itself. The market's been doing great. Like it was like, yes, of course there's an opportunity cost there. But like at the end of the day, I was like, why am I saving up and working so hard and investing if it isn't for moments like these where like, you know, money can't solve all your problems, but it can solve like a lot.

Yeah, I can. Like way more than I give it credit for. So that felt really good. And that, that kind of really, I think also helped my wife kind of also understand like, oh, wow, that was really good that you've been doing all this stuff and, you know, been so focused on it.

Yeah. Tell me about your wife's investment in this plan or how you said, oh, I was a lot better before I got married. My wife is a very patient woman. I think it's so common in FI where there's always one person who's gung-ho and the other person who's like, what?

What are you doing? Like we still haven't like kind of sat down to have like our money check-ins. Like she like fights it. Like she's like, it's fine. Like so, but she's, she's very good. She's very patient. And I try and like clue her in on some of the stuff. And that's like kind of a resolution for the new year is to be a little more on top of that. I think it's,

in a way she kind of helps pump the brakes on me being too intense about it because that was some of the common things from people who've done this is that they look back and the regret is that they were too hardcore about it you

you know, like they wish they loosened it up a little bit. Like they get to the number and then all of a sudden they realize, okay, like I'm here. And so she's good about kind of forcing me to enjoy life a little bit. So yeah, I'm not as like perfectly optimized as we could be, but I'm also kind of like fine about that. Cause I'm like, we're in a good place. Like I just got to enjoy this. I've gotten way better about that. I'm just kind of enjoying the ride and realizing like, listen, like,

The transfer of wealth from the boomers to the other generations, it's going to be the biggest transfer of wealth in human history. We're all going to be fine. Our parents and grandparents have worked hard so that their children didn't have to work as hard. And us doing FI, I feel like we will be stewards of all that hard work. And that's what we're going to do.

not frivolously spend it, but like use it wisely. So I'm just kind of was long-term thinking like, Oh, we're going to be okay. Like it's fine to like go out for a $40 dinner, you know, like just calm down and have some chicken with your wife without a child screaming and just enjoy it.

Yeah. It sounds like you've reached Phi Enlightenment. And yet, I hear that all the time, too, I guess, because we probably listen to the same podcast, but where it's like, oh, I really wish that I hadn't been so hardcore about it. And I find myself a little annoyed because I'm like, this seems easy for you to say at this moment. Yeah.

You know, would you really take back and be working right now instead? You know, and it's sort of like all the articles you see about, well, on their deathbed, people really wished that they had taken more risks. Of course they do. Because...

Because when you're thinking about those big risks that you could have taken, you're not feeling the weight of the fact that they are risks and could go terribly and might have gone terribly. So it's sort of like, even though I see the wisdom in both of those things, I'm always like, Hmm. Well, I mean, it is like, it's a little bit like we're talking out of both sides of our mouth. You know, it's easy to say it after you've done it, you know, cause you're right. You're not feeling the immediate pressure and risk in the moment, but,

I've been trying to just focus more on just enjoying my every day. I was reading that. I think I found out about it through the email newsletter, but that gap in the gain book. Yeah. Oh my God. Listen, I love all this stuff. I can read self-help books all day. Like give it to me. And usually I read them and I'm like, this is great. And then like, I like institute the principles for like four days and I forget

forget about it. But the gap in the game, that one like hit me hard. It just, for me as somebody who like I'm

I mean, God, I do stand up comedy, but like all my life is regret. You know, a lot of coulda, woulda, shoulda. So when I should have turned right, when I clearly turned left, you know, like I made used to make comedy videos and a buddy told me, I was like, Hey, you should put these on this new website called YouTube. And I would make comedy videos. We would show them in bars. They would be packed. It would be sold out. People would come to watch our stuff. And I said, Oh, online video will never catch on.

So I have made horrifically bad decisions. So I don't know where I was going, but I think the point is I'm just trying to like, I don't know, that gap in the game made me kind of just, they had this one little bit of like, it was from some other guy where he said, don't say like, I'll be successful when...

Instead of I'll be successful when I have a million dollars, whatever. It'll be like, say I am successful when I am. And I was like, I kind of wrote a bunch. And I was like, when I'm like playing outside with my son. And now when we like go outside and play, I'm just like, oh, I'm successful right now. Like this is it. Yeah. And it's really helped me kind of reframe a lot of stuff. This is all fresh, but it was over four days ago. I listened to that book weeks ago and it's all still sinking in. So it's had a lot of impact on me. Yeah. Yeah.

How old are you? I am 45 years young. Okay. We are all 45. What is that? Yeah. That's another thing I want to talk about. But anyway. I work with kids who are so young and it's crazy. They're all like, I don't know. What were they talking about? K-pop and Pokemon. And I'm just like, I have no idea what's going on. I'm just trying to hang. But yeah, no. 45. Don't feel... I feel very... I don't know if it's something in the water in California, but I feel very like... I don't know. I feel good. I don't feel like...

Like I look at my friends from college. I'm like, we all look the same, right? People are like, no, Ron, we don't. I'm like, I think we do. I think we look good.

Yeah. So you said that thing about like, oh, I don't think the change is going to be as big from 40 to 50 because I'm not undergoing this transformation from like idiot to grown up. Yes. But yet at this age, there's all this stuff around like you said, oh, I feel young still. I feel so alive still. And that's the thing that I feel like.

oh, I have to hold onto that because I'm not always going to feel that way. And I'm not always going to be in a position to make big moves, which is why I've been thinking about the risk thing so much. Yeah. Definitely there was a moment. One thing my wife and I wanted to do after we got married was we wanted to rent a van and go on a three-month tour of national parks and have that be our honeymoon. And then I don't know if you heard about this thing. It was called a pandemic that hit and that really threw a wrench into that idea. And

It was just kind of like realize like, okay, now we're having children now or trying to have a family. I guess I can actually, to be honest, the difference of me 40 and 50 is actually probably going to be pretty huge because one was pre-children and then one is after having children. But I was thinking like, when am I going to be able to do that? I mean, I know there's the families that van life it and they have their kids there. Come on. I just like, okay. But I...

And I'm like, I want to do this at some point. I was telling her like yesterday, I was like, you know, we should like at some point rent a van. Like maybe we could do a small truncated version of it, like with kids and, you know, people do it and we'll figure it out. And she was like, yeah, she's like, that'd be fun. But I realized like, oh man, I'm like, are all my like adventures done? And I refuse to believe that they are, but I will admit that the adventures might have to be.

modified or, you know, tweaked a little bit because I have other responsibilities now. Yeah. And even those tweaked adventures, like they need to happen in the next decade. I mean, you know, honestly, I've been trying to be better about fitness. And actually, I learned a lot from Brad because I saw him at the Choose Fi event in Vegas. And the dude was so ripped that I asked him, I was like, how much do you bench? Like, and I'm not, I go to those guys, but like his...

arms were like the size of my thighs. It was insane. And I'm like, do you just CrossFit? Is there anything else you do? And he was telling me he does this training by Dean Turner, who I kind of got into to try and get fit. Because when I was in my 20s, I was on a plane and I saw these like, I don't know, they had to be like 80s, easy. But they were like

This elderly couple and they were like head to toe and like REI and Patagonia, like they were like ready to hike Machu Picchu and they were just slender and fit and just look so full of vigor. And I was like, I want that. Yeah.

Like that's how I want to be when I'm that age. So I've been trying to be better about health and just like making it a priority. And I'll be honest, it's been, I don't know, I go on a tear for like a month or two and then I fall off of it because work gets busy or one of us gets sick and then the other one gets sick, you know? So I'm in the mode of trying to get back into it now. But that I do think that you can have those adventures beyond your 50s and 60s, but it's like,

we got to put the time in now to make sure we're still mobile. Oh, yeah. And just to everyone out there, I certainly didn't mean that when you're 55, like, it's all over, pack it in. It sounded like, pack it in, you're done. You're done. But it is a different kind of like willingness maybe to do something like sleep in a van. Yeah. I mean, I'm from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. I grew up in Northeast Pennsylvania and it's

It's crazy how you go back home and everyone just like talks about their knees. Yes. Like you ask people what they're doing. They're like, well, my knee and my back, like they just talk about a part of their body that's not going according to plan. And like, that's the conversation that in the weather and the GD government or, you know, stuff like that. But it's mostly about knees. Yep. And I was like, I just don't want to have conversations about my knees like ever again.

So I'm trying to, I'm doing knee exercises now. I'm like, I had an ACL injury in college, so I'm working on it. But man, oh man, it's wild. I had this conversation with my husband not two weeks ago where I was like, I think it's time, man. We need to make a pact to never talk about how our bodies are falling apart because I'm so afraid of, yes, that that's the main topic of conversation. I just, I gotta stretch more. I used to be into stretching. I know.

Because my wife once tried to stretch my leg. She was like, it's like your stomach is made of concrete. It's so stiff. She's like, how do you walk around? It was...

I don't know. I was like, oh, God, this is bad. And so I started stretching and doing yoga online. And I'm just that guy. And the pandemic was just that guy in my living room trying to do yoga. And the mailman would come up and see me doing it. And I'm like, hey, what's up, Kevin? And it's just so weird. And I was bad at it. But I did feel...

a lot better and slightly more bendy than I was. And now I'm back. I'm like solidified back to like my concrete form where I need to like start stretching out again. Honestly, it's like to me, five is like if I reach five, I'm gonna have so much more time to stretch. Yeah.

This is the oldest thing I've ever heard anyone say. I've embraced that part of me, though. I've always been old. I was like 20 for like three weeks, and then I turned like 55. I've always had like an old soul mentality. And right now, I'm just like, you know what? I'm going to stop caring about what the people I don't love think about me, and I'm going to embrace this like...

I was always that guy that's why I like the five stuff is like I could talk about like Roth IRAs and it's not like weird you know but there's still so much stuff that I need to learn that's the thing it's like I always even though like I feel like I have everything set on like a pretty simple boring kind of pathway like I still don't fully understand the Roth backdoor thing like even though I've heard people talk about it literally a thousand times I'm like where what's

What's going on? So I need to figure that out. Because sometimes we talk about we have this base knowledge. And sometimes I haven't covered those bases. So I'm a big fan of when people use acronyms and they spell it out the first time before they use it again. Because for a lot of people who do this for their life, sometimes they'll just... Or I just forget. I feel like since we had children, I feel like I've definitely gotten dumber. And there's just things I don't know anymore. I forget. If I've met you more than five years ago, I'm going to forget your name. And I'm so sorry.

So many people told me my brain would come back. And I was like, I don't think so, man. Like, I think it's over. But it really has started to come back. So I want to give you some. I feel slower. Like, I mean, I do stand up still, you know, and it's fun. But I don't do it like I'm trying to make a living at it. Like, and when you're trying to make a living at stand up, you're grinding. You know, you're going up at least like, I don't know, I went up around eight to ten times a week and whatever.

You're trying to post stuff online and you're messaging club requests and you're going to the right parties and you're just so sharp and on. In conversation, you're just so quick and rapid fire. And I don't do any of that anymore. Now I go up once or twice a month. I have a beer. It's fun.

I sometimes I get booked for random shows and get paid. I'm like, Oh, that's cool. And I'm definitely not as quick as I used to be. And I know part of that is I'm not like, you know, if you don't play basketball all the time, you're not going to be as good at basketball. But other part of that is just like having a child and just like, I don't know, not enough sleep. Like my senses are dulled and I'm definitely not as like quick as I used to be. Cause I would used to be able to like think of jokes. Like I know like there'll be a part of the conversation where I know this is where the joke is supposed to go. And I'm like, I got nothing. Like,

I used to have something there always ready to go. And I'm like, oh man. So it's nice to hear that that's going to come back. I'm actually very excited about that.

Yeah. I was really worried that I had a brain tumor for a while. Whoa. Because I would like forget things that normally I would never forget, like people's birthdays who I was really close to. And I would, it was just like nuts, the kind of things that I was forgetting. I just like could not hold on to him for me. But you didn't have a brain tumor. Well, that's the thing. So everyone's like, oh, it's okay because your brain will start working again once your child gets older. I'm like, what an advertisement for childbearing, right? You might think you have a brain tumor.

But hey, you probably don't. Yeah, exactly. I always just thought, no, I'm going to be the one person who like I do have a brain tumor and then no one listened to me. And then you get to have that sweet righteousness of like, you should have listened to Ginger. Now you'll always feel bad. Yeah, because now I'm dead. Anyway, your child. I'm glad I reached five. Your child brain tumor will go away.

I want to go back to all the things we don't know. Let's just be a little... Instead of sharing knowledge on this podcast, you said the backdoor Roth. And that's something too that I feel like I kind of check out a little bit when people are talking about it because...

It doesn't really apply to me. And so it's... I don't think it applies to me either. I think you have to have a lot of money. Yeah. And I'm not quite there yet, but I can't wait till it does apply to me. Yeah. Yeah.

One of the things is I definitely... I love when I find out things I don't know about things I don't know, where all of a sudden something comes in. I was like, oh, I didn't know I was supposed to know about that. And I feel like I've been good. The thing I'm proud about is I'm very good about tracking our expenses. I got everything dialed in. And I'm really proud about that, that I could go back years and be like, this is what I spent in July of 2021 or whatever. And this is what we spent on. And so that...

in and of itself has, I feel like that was like the big first step for me. Cause I always thought I was a really frugal person. I was like, I don't, I don't spend that much money on eating out. And then I tracked my expenses and I was like, Oh my God, I'm a monster. This is insane. You know, like I was like, I can't believe I, what? And so it was very illuminating to see what I actually spent my money on. And then I started to like make changes and,

And right now, I feel like we're pretty... We live in a high cost of living area. I'm in the LA area. I love where we live. I wouldn't trade it. It's just a nice place to live. I love the weather. I love the people, the vibe. It's kind of where I work. And we have family close by here, so it's nice. But it's definitely a high cost of living area. So I don't know what they say, 25% should go to your...

Okay.

I love that we're essentially we're talking about budgeting now, right? Yeah. And it's funny you say this because I was just thinking, okay, this is one of my 2025 goals because I feel like I'm a person who's good with money. I'm obsessed with personal finance in a lot of ways. But I think I'm also one of those people who like there's more money if I could just...

find it in my budget. Like, I don't know, I'm just spending too much on Amazon or something. So I think I'm gonna get really serious and like do the thing where I write down every single thing that I spend for a month or two. Oh, yeah, I think it's like ginger, at least for me, like that was the thing that made me like I do I track everything. And you know, at the end of the year, sometimes I'll go to my wife and I'll be like, Hey, I'm just gonna search for this last year. I'm just gonna type in one word and it's target.

and see what we bought at Target. And then she says, they're essentials. And I'm like, everything you bought is essential. Like we would not still be here if you didn't buy one. And it's truly illuminating how much we have given to the kingdom of Target and the kingdom of Amazon. Yeah. I don't know. For me, that was maybe kind of adjust some behaviors. Like now I do this thing. Now this has worked for me. Whenever I buy something on Amazon, I only buy it

on a Sunday so that I actually just put it in my cart and let it sit there until Sunday and then I buy it. But sometimes I will be like, I don't need that and I'll take that back out of my cart. So I'm not scratching that itch immediately. I've fallen off that around the holidays, but generally I'm pretty good about that and I find that that has reduced my Amazon purchases big time. These are the tips we need. I love tips. I love like...

There's part of me that kind of gets like a little tired of talking about like the why behind things and people's like emotional journey of what I'm like, okay, I get it. Like we all have our own way, but like, tell me how to do the thing. Like, give me the tip. Cause I'm like, I'll get the whole emotional thing. I'll figure that out on my own. Just tell me like the thing you did. So for Brad, I was like, how did you get your arms to look like, like meat cannons? And he's like, oh, I got this guy, Dean Turner. And

And I just do what he says. And I go, okay. And then I gave Dean Turner $100 and he gave me a workout program. And now I'm doing the thing so I could get Brad Barrett arms. You know, so that's my 2021 resolution. All right. Give me some Brad arms. So tell us the things like I want to know. And just think about how like you're just giving me specific advice. I'm going to do these things. Like, do you have a specific program that you use to track? How do you do it? Let's start there.

Oh my gosh. I can't believe Brad has not already talked to you about this. First of all, he knows what he's doing, but it's like this, this guy, he just says use gym machines instead of weights because they kind of control your movements. Slow down. I'm not talking about the workouts. I'm talking about workout stuff. I was like, I was a little bit like, oh, whoa, okay. Yeah. We can talk about workout stuff.

I mean, you're looking at me thinking like, I want to look like that, right? So, okay. I honestly thought you were talking about workout stuff. Well, it's fair for you to think that I'm very, I'm deep into the weightlifting stuff as well. You're asking about financial independence? You mean the topic of this actual podcast? Yeah, that makes more sense. Yeah, yeah. That was so funny. For me, tracking expenses was the first and foremost, the thing. But what is the thing? Are you doing- Oh, I use personal capital. That's-

That's it? Yeah. It used to be called... Or no, I'm sorry. It's called Empower now. And I use personal capital and always get a friend. The meanest thing you can do in the FI community is to use someone's recommendation and then not use their referral code. That is really crossing the line. So get someone's referral code. I'll send you mine. And then if you sign up, we both get 20 bucks.

You connect all your different accounts, your whatever, Wells Fargo or your Bank of America credit cards, whatever, all that stuff. It's a pain in the butt. It doesn't work perfectly. It's going to take you a minute. And then track your expenses for a month or two. Don't judge yourself. Just log in every Sunday morning and just... It's like a dumb robot. But once you point it in the right direction, it remembers. So it's

There's this one coffee shop I go to and it thinks it's internet. I'm like, it's not internet, it's coffee, you dumb robot. But once you point it in the right direction, the dumb robot remembers. So there's a little bit of hand-holding you have to do in the beginning. And then after two months, look at what you spent

on and like kind of the parts where you get a little cringy ball in your stomach. You're like, okay, that's way too much money to spend on Amazon. I need to dial it back there. Yeah. And then like, you know, then you can make decisions, but I'm a big believer in like, you can't make decisions unless you have good data. And so if you don't have good data, like you got to know how much is coming in and how much is going out, you know? Yeah.

I'm going to talk about this a little bit more because I think people are in the position I'm in where I have an Empower account. I check it constantly because I'm really interested in seeing what the market is doing in a way that I know we're not supposed to, but I do it anyway. I do too, yeah. I'm not looking at it in terms of my specific purchases that are being put into a category, but that's what you're saying. I tend to...

uh not to get too i guess intimate but i tend to like when i go to the bathroom listen i sit down when i pee because i'm getting stuff done so that's when i i turn that time into like let's go into empower like that's when i budget my transactions so this man does not stand when he pees okay because i'm too busy making moves i ask for specifics and so that's yeah so that's what i do

I mean, I think the feeling of that is probably motivated maybe because it's like you don't necessarily want to know. Because once you know, then you might be like, oh, now I've got to change my behavior. But I found it very interesting. I kind of looked at – I tried to look at it like –

remove myself from it and look at myself as like a little business and be like okay how is this guy running his business aka his life so that's how i kind of mentally looked at it and was like okay this is where i'm doing very well like this is great you're saving a good amount good for you and this is where you're doing a little crazy but then also like like i typed in the word coffee to see how much we spent on coffee the year our son was born and it was um

It was insane because every morning I would take our son out of the house because my wife, you know, so she could sleep in a little bit and we had a small place. So I got him out and I would walk with him in a stroller and we would get coffee. And, you know, I wouldn't change that for anything. I absolutely loved that time. I don't care how much it costs. Like it was at that time, it was something that I kind of valued and I felt like,

allowed us to like, we became friends with the coffee owner and like, you know, we just would have fun together. And I don't know, it was just a nice time. So I also don't, I don't judge myself too much.

I don't want to beat myself up about anything. I'm just kind of like, listen, we're all trying to do our best to get to the end of the day. If I see an area where I can improve a little bit, go for it. But I'm not going to, I don't know, make myself feel bad. I mean, look, we're doing such a noble thing. And just the fact that we're in this community and we're going for it means we're so fortunate.

far ahead of the status quo. So like, if I'm not doing it perfectly, well, I got to work six extra months or a year. That's fine. I don't know. That's kind of like how I, I justify stuff in my head for better. It works for me. Cause I don't want to, I don't want to obsess about it too much. I have the tendency to kind of be like that. I've chilled out a lot with it. And I think it's been good for like my general mental health. Yeah. Well,

Well, let's go back to you said you like the nitty gritty and the action tips and the hacks. What are some of those things that have worked for you on this path? Definitely the switching our phones from the Verizon family plan. The hardest part was getting out of the family plan. That's the hardest part. It's not hard to switch your phone. It's hard to have the conversation with your family and be like, hey, I got a bounce, man. This is crazy. Yeah.

But I'm talking about $15 a month. I pay it once. I think it came in at like $270 with the activation fee. Yeah, Mint Mobile. And it works better than the other phone plan we had. And now I pay that once a month and I don't have that monthly subscription cost anymore. I went from having this cost that was like $50, whatever, now to like $15 and I pay it once a year and then I don't have to worry about it monthly. That's been huge.

It's a good one. That's a good one. Automating all the investments and savings. So like my paycheck hits on a certain day and then...

boom like it goes into like my savings i do invest in the market on mondays because historically um i don't do any timing the market but historically the market is down on a monday because people are like it's monday so i do just put my money in on a monday and then i just i don't try and time anything but that's the one little timing tweak i do yeah

Can I tell you my, so I'm convinced that I need to go to Mint Bone Bowl. I'm just waiting out a contract and then I'm going to, I'm on board. I watched so much Welcome to Wrexham that I was like, fine, I'll do it. But you know what? But my wife, wife is still on the family plan. So I got to get her out. Like I've made it out.

But when you leave a family plan, it gets higher for the people still in the family plan. So it's like, hey, I'm going to bounce and it's going to negatively affect you. Right. It's a tough conversation. But like, I was like, I'm saving like personally, like, I don't know, $700 a year. Yeah. You got to get her out.

Oh, other nitty gritty thing is that my wife's going back to school to get her master's. And I realized that that makes her eligible because she has a university email address that makes her eligible for all the student discounts for all the streaming services. And I switched us and I think I saved us like $500 a year.

It's like, instead of like paying, I don't know, whatever the Disney plus, because you legally as a parent have to have Disney plus. If you don't pay, instead of paying like $14.99, it's now like $1.99 or something like crazy, crazy cheap. And it has ads, but I'm fine, whatever. We don't watch that much. But that was a big thing where I was, and it was, guess what? It was super annoying, but I figured it out in one night. I've gotten really good at the email that the

the Brad sends out and you know that people list their wins. I've gotten really good at when something happens to me of calling around and getting quotes. So like our windshield just got a crack in it. And I called around, this took 20 minutes. And I called this one place. It was like affordable auto care, whatever. Like it was in the name. It was like, and it was $500 to fix this windshield crack. And then I called a bunch of other places. And then I got a guy who's like for 250.

So like 50% off and they both did it, like said I could do it in the next day. Wow. And the guy's like, I'm like, do I need to pay cash? He's like, no. Okay. And I'm like, great. Okay. I'll, I'll get points. And so I've gotten really good at like just calling around and,

And just taking 20 minutes. And that's been big. I've saved like a considerable amount of money checking out on stuff like that. Yeah, that's a really good tip. I want to go back to me for a second. I want to go back to you as well. I want to go back to me. Do you want to talk about working out now? Can we talk about working out?

No, I want to go back to the phone thing because I want to tell you my one hesitation, even though it's such a big saving. I'm going to do it regardless. But I want to tell you my hesitation as someone who, OK, you've got this phone.

I have one friend who I convinced to do this. I haven't again done it yet. She went, she's happy. Oh, I love this that you like had her do it first just to see what would happen. I'm trapped in this contract. Doesn't matter. Okay. But she said the one thing she doesn't like about it is we, we are both from Montana and we live in Washington now. And so she's like, sometimes when I'm going on those roads, I can't get a connection and

And I'm not driving around the back roads of Montana very often, to be honest. But I am so directionally insane to quote the guy on The Good Place. Like, I will just die if I get lost. I'll just die. One thing you can do is... Do you have an iPhone or an Android? iPhone. Okay. So one thing you can do if you download Google Maps, which I'm sure you have on your phone, you can download an area.

So that it's there. You can select an area to download onto your phone. If you don't have internet, you'll still be able to have access to all the road data. You just won't have access to the live information like traffic and if there's a cop nearby or whatever. So I have that for Southern California in case there was ever an earthquake, knock on wood, or an emergency.

I have all of Southern California downloaded so that if we got in the car, I could still have Google Map directions. But you can also just have... You don't need to get Mint Mobile. Every major carrier has their MVNO, their

whatever it's called, the mobile virtual network operator, which is like what... I don't know. Like Mint Mobile works on T-Mobile towers. So Mint Mobile pays T-Mobile money to use their towers, but they don't have stores so they can charge lower prices. So like Verizon's version of that is like Boost Mobile, I think.

I think like, I don't know, 18 tees is like cricket. So if you asked around in Montana to people like, Hey, which service works really well here, if they say Verizon, then you know, okay, I should get boost mobile, you know, for, so, I mean, you have to do a little bit of research and,

I mean, I found out in my area that actually T-Mobile does pretty well. So it's not as great as like what I had before, but, um, you know, I'd say it's like 90% there, 95% there. Like I can get service in certain parking lots where I didn't get service before. And there's occasionally there's other dead zones here and there, but I'm like, was it worth paying 700 more dollars a year to not be momentarily inconvenienced every few months? Yeah.

No, obviously not. So I have come to peace with it. Join us. I'm coming. I'm on my way. All right. Let's do two more tips from Ron. This is so funny because actually I wanted to start a podcast about tips because I love tips so much. This is great. This is your entry. Yeah. I was going to call it the Babcock tip and it's only going to be 10 minutes long. That's the thing.

This is what I hate about tips is that when people got you and you tune into something, even like YouTube videos, if you like ever, you know, trying to, I got to fix a dryer, which I had to do recently. And you look up YouTube videos and somehow people turn that into like this 37 minute like journey. And like, just give me the information and let me go on with my life. So I like,

I like really short tips. It's like, I don't, you don't need to become here. My emotional arc, just here's the thing I did that saved me a little money. The unclaimed property. I feel like that's like the low hanging fruit of the FI community, the missing money.org or whatever that thing. I,

I didn't have any, but I had a friend. I punched in all my names of all my friends and family. And I have my buddy. I was like, hey, dude, is this you? And I gave him some of the information. He's like, yeah. I'm like, I think you have some money. And it's going to be more than like $100. It ended up being $1,000. What?

And he needed it. Like, it was like, it really worked. Like, he had to jump through some hoops, but he was like, dude, that really like helped me out. So I say for the holiday season, especially if you don't have a lot of money, like go to that website and put in the information. But,

The reason why you have missing money is because there was most likely some kind of clerical error. Like someone somewhere entered your address wrong, so they weren't able to... The money never made it to you. Like it got bounced back. So I tend to just put my name in and then wade through all the information rather than going super specific, like with my name and my city, because stuff doesn't come up. So you just got to just put your name in. Put your first and last name in, maybe a variation of it. So I would put in Ron and Ronald, but...

So that's what I would do. But that one was good. I'm trying to think, what are other tips? You got me on the spot now. I'm thinking, you know, I'm worried. The YouTube university has been huge though. Just like when stuff, something breaks around the house, I like, I fixed our dryer and I felt I was, I was in over my head. I mean, the whole thing was disassembled. And then I realized like a dryer is actually a pretty simple mechanism and I was able to fix it. And when I removed it, I found out there was a like, um,

I don't want to curse, but there was a ton of lint like outside the dryer barrel. Like it was fire hazard. It was insane. So I'm really glad I did it. Cause I was like, Oh my gosh, I, wow, this is bad. So that, and every time I fix a little something, I get a little bit more confident. So I like started doing my own oil changes and really it just makes me feel super manly. But, um, and the added bonus was like, Oh, that just saved me like 60 bucks.

Yeah, that's pretty impressive. I like that you were like, well, I guess I'll put the beep sound in because I can't think of another adjective. But of course, a ton of lint. Listen, as an editor, I'm used to that beep sound. All right. Do you like to travel? I did. God, in my previous life, I traveled so much. In college, I did a semester at sea. And then I also worked on another program that was similar to semester sea called the Scholar Ship. Huh?

And I was the video guy on that. So I've been around the world twice on a ship and there were amazing experiences. And stand up about 10 years ago, I did a tour in an old vintage Mercedes Benz and I drove coast to coast for three months.

Did like 90 shows. God, I came back a shell of a man. I was so tired. It was crazy. I actually met my wife like three days before I left for that trip. And then we kept in touch the whole time. And then I came back and got together and now we're married. Yeah, I absolutely love to travel. And it's something that I want to do more. I'm a little bit, we've done it a little bit with a little one. And I know people say, I just need to bite the bullet. Here's my challenge. How old is your kid, first of all? He's two and a half.

Okay. So it's not like the distress of traveling. I'm fine with that. It's the like, if I have a job, it's like, oh, I don't know. We can't travel. I got a job. Like I can't like TV's kind of crazy. Like it's sometimes you're really in it and it's difficult to take time off. And then when you don't have a job, you're like, I can't travel right now. I don't got a job. That's not like financially. So we kind of get in this like, when are we going to do this stuff? But we do have some goal

goals for the next year. And I think we're going to do some road trips in and around California to visit friends. And we'd love to go back to Hawaii because we went there to get married. And we want to go back there with a bunch of friends and family. So yeah, we do have that as a goal. I'm going to make it happen. I do love the whole credit card kind of thing. We're not hardcore about it, but I'm hardcore about it enough where I barely ever pay for a flight. And I'm flying one to two times a year.

So I just do enough to kind of pay for that. So that's been another big thing. I started listening to this other podcast and the episode title was something like why we're not doing travel rewards anymore. I'm like, oh, I got to listen to this. Maybe they know something that I don't know because I love travel rewards. I

I mean, I always like it. Like, I think it's like a nice, like, I don't know. I'd be interested to see why they're not doing it. No. Well, I listened to it and then I heard that she was talking about how like they were so overwhelmed with their 18 cards or whatever. And I was like, Oh, that's what people are doing. But,

but that's yeah that's the thing that I kind of was like oh I just don't want that so now I'm like I just I just do every I yeah it's coming up every year on January 1st I just get a new card I'm like what's the card out there yeah and if it's not the greatest bonus that ever lived that's fine it's still 80,000 whatever like I just do that card for the next year yeah so that's kind of where I've kind of got to it I need to like

It'd be interesting to sign my wife up and then we both do it. But one thing at a time. There's a list of things that I need to do and I have been

putting it off, rolling over old 401ks and stuff like that. Real stuff that I should have done by now. But I'm just trying to inch forward. It's like that gap in the game thing. They measure backwards, measure from where you are and not where you want to go. And that's been very helpful for me. I started this in 2018. And if I just look at how far I've come, I'm very proud of it. And the fact that it really helped us when I was unemployed for almost a year, that was very...

motivating to kind of keep going. But I'm also trying not to do it to the point where I start to obsess and lose sleep about it because I'm just like, I don't know. It doesn't feel very productive.

Yeah. Well, you said something about goals, travel goals for the new year. So let's kind of close out with, I know you have some other goals for the year and we're at that time of year where it's like talking about and thinking about who you want to be next year. Tell us a little bit about future. Let me just, let me just open up my 2024 goals. I could tell you my goals from last year and all the things that I didn't hit. Okay. Ready? I stand up on a surfboard. Didn't hit it.

Oh, God, I'm trying. I'm so bad at it, but I'm going to keep trying. Go in the ocean every month. Did not hit it. Go paddle boarding with my wife. Did not do it. Bike to this town nearby with my wife. Did it with my wife, but did it on my own. It was like 36 miles and it almost broke me. Start boxing again. Did it. Spar once. Did not do it. Still afraid of it. Going to do it this year.

make journaling a habit starting to do that i've hit miss make a reel and website did it hey ron.com i think it turned out kind of cool restore the director chairs didn't do it i have dreams of like you

you know, those like tick tock restoring furniture or the people who restore cast iron. Oh my God, I can watch that stuff forever. Travel somewhere. And we did, we did technically travel somewhere and it was a delightful time. So those were like my goals from last year. A lot of my goals for this year probably going to be those that I didn't hit. I think I honestly, I just want to stand up on a surfboard. That's like kind of the big goal is I want to stand up on a surfboard and I want to, I want to feel that because I've,

I took my niece out and she stood up like immediately. And I'm like, I gotta be kidding me. Well, you live in LA. Isn't this a requirement? No, it's... We live kind of in the LA area, a little bit outside where it's... Most people in LA don't, believe me, don't surf. And whenever I tell people at work that I started surfing, they're like, yeah, really? Like they just...

I don't enjoy the tone in their voice. But I'm going to do it. That's my big goal. I'm trying to do a lot of little things. Oh, I'll tell you the 1% little improvements I made that I was really proud of is I had no more phone at mealtimes. So I don't have my phone with me at the dinner table anymore. Nice. I got an alarm clock in my bedroom and I charged my phone in the kitchen. So...

So I don't check my phone at night or when I wake up. And that's been huge. I got a bike seat for our son. And that's been probably the biggest game changer is now we just bike together and it's the best. And then I started journaling more. And I read that Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter. And he talks about like rucking, which is a fancy word for just carrying things.

like weight in a backpack. And I started doing that on a, when I walk my dog. So those are like the little things that I, and honestly, I never tell anybody about this stuff. Cause I feel like a little weird to go to my friends. We were like, I don't have my phone at mealtimes anymore. So I appreciate you giving me this safe space where I could share this kind of stuff because I,

I never talk about this with anybody, but I feel like this community is people would be like, oh yeah, I do that. Like, and it's, it's a very welcome and open space. So thank you for letting me, you know, dive into all that. Um,

Oh my gosh. I started putting my phone to bed. I started doing something similar. Like I have a, it has a little bed. Oh, that's awesome. Like it's away from my bed. So is it just like a bucket of dry rice and you just stick it in that? A bucket of dry rice. Yeah. So now what are some of your goals? I'm, I'm, I'm interested. I've been vulnerable. I've shared my vulnerabilities of things that I hope to focus on in the new year. I want to know what Ginger's going to try and do.

This is not how this works, Ron. I ask the questions. No, I definitely am one of those people, you know, where you're like, oh, yeah, I think in this community, I'm definitely a goal person. And I sit down with my little list of goals here soon. So I don't know that I have them all out. But one of them is about the budgeting thing where I do. I'm not crazy. I do like track goals.

to some extent but i really want to get serious about it but i understand like you can go like sometimes like if my wife went to target i'm like well technically 60 of that was groceries and 40 of it was i'm like oh god just put it under general merchandise like it's like you can i don't know where the line is sometimes and i have trouble with that i'm

I'm going to find out where the line is. I think, you know, you find what works for you. And I know like I found an area where I'm like, okay, we're, I feel comfortable with what we're spending. I don't think it's ridiculous. I don't think it's, we're not depriving ourselves. So we found that, but I know what you mean. Like you can obsess over it too much. And you know, there's a thing on Amazon where you can say like, how much did I spend last year? Well, no,

We share our Amazon account. So like ours is all over the place. Like it's just pure chaos. Yeah, I did this a few years ago and it was horrific. Oh. Yeah. And it really put me off from like, I've never touched that button again. And so part of my goal is like, I don't want to not be looking at that out of this like weird emotion that I can't handle. I go to my purchase history at the end of the year. And then I kind of see like, okay, am I still using this purchase? Like, was this something that actually...

still continues to provide value and so that's why I'm like and I tell you that Sunday thing that I do like that works like when I'm on that and I'm really sticking to it because it is takes a lot of willpower it a lot of times I end up taking stuff out you know I'm like I've

I've gotten good at just finding... We live in one of those neighborhoods where the neighborhood provides. There's just things on the side. I was going to buy a dresser from a thrift store for our closet in our guest room. And on the way there, I saw a dresser the exact size on the side of the road. And I was like, are you kidding me? I got way too excited about it. And I told...

a lot of my friends and they're like, cool story, bro. But if I tell someone in FI, they're like, that's amazing. Like, they're so excited for me, but, but it like, it worked out. So, um,

I find that if I wait for it, like it will come into my life. I'll find it at a garage sale or I'll see it on like Facebook marketplace. But if I want to like jump the line, like and have it now, like then I buy it new. But if I just wait and I'm okay with waiting, like I will get the things I'm hoping to get. Like I want a flat dolly for the garage so I can like put stuff on it and move it around. I could probably build one, but I mean, there's only, I mean, I haven't got around to restoring director's chairs. Am I really going to build a flat dolly? Like I know my limits. So yeah.

Too much stuff to get done, Ginger, right? Okay. So another of my goals is manifesting a dresser. No. Well, we'll stop there on my goals. I've talked about this on the show, but I'm like so awkward at ending episodes. What do you think would be a good thing for us to end on? I'm a really big fan of the awkward ending and then you just cut it right there. And that's where we end the episode. And then we just, and that's it. Yeah.

That was a joke we did on Clone High and I was a big fan of that joke. I don't know. I was kind of trying to open an end with gratitude. So I'd say I just want to thank you for having me on. It's like I never thought I would be on a Choose FI type or an FI type podcast because I don't know. But I was flattered that you asked me and I hope that

some of this stuff was useful to other people. And I, whenever I hear these kinds of conversations, like I find it really useful just to hear other people talk about the minutia of it all. So it keeps me motivated.

Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. And thank you so much for coming on. It's heartwarming to hear you say that because I always think when I reach out to people, I'm like, there's no way this person is going to... Oh, I'm a standup comedian. I'll literally be on any podcast. There's a very low bar. I think there was one podcast I ever said no to. I was like, oh, come on. That was weird. I don't want to do that one. But yeah, listen, if you guys are interested, you can listen to my standup on...

Spotify. So I got an album on there called This Guy, and you could listen to it for free unless you reached FI, and then you could go to iTunes and pay $10 for it. All right. That's a perfect place for us to end. Thanks so much, Ron. And thank you everyone listening today, and we'll catch you next time.

Thank you for listening to today's show and for being part of the Chooseify community. If you haven't already, the best ways to get involved are first, subscribe to the podcast. So you're listening to this on a podcast player, just hit subscribe and then subscribe to my weekly newsletter. I actually sit down every Monday and write this by hand.

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and how we keep this the ultimate crowdsourced personal finance show. And finally, if you're looking to join an in-real-life community, we have Chooseify local groups in 300-plus cities all around the world. So head to chooseify.com slash local, and you'll find a list of all of those cities in 20-plus countries all across the world.

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