Mad Money w/ Jim Cramer 1/13/25
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Hey, I'm Kramer. Welcome to Mad Money. Coming to you from San Francisco. Welcome to Kramerica. I'll be your friends. I'm just trying to make you a little money. My job is not just to entertain, but to educate and teach you. So call me at 1-800-743-CBC or tweet me at Jim Kramer.

What a relief to cover science and computing, if only for a few days. I mean, that's right. On a day when the Dow gained 359 points, S&P advanced 0.16%, and the Nasdaq lost 0.38%. We came to San Francisco for the J.P. Morgan Health Care Conference to see the future of medicine. I got to tell you, I liked what I saw.

At the same time, I sure didn't like what I saw when I watched the Joe Rogan experience this weekend, when a very unfettered Mark Zuckerberg, the founder and CEO of Meta Platforms, took some shots, I would say cheap shots, I mean just terrible, that made me want to throw a yellow flag 15 yards on sportsmanlike conduct.

Worse, the U.S. government chose to meddle in the semiconductor world in a way that defeats so much of what Jensen Wang, the CEO of NVIDIA, is trying to accomplish. A series of restrictions came out this weekend that put limits on the number of GPUs NVIDIA can sell to all but 18 friendly nations. Look, we all get the game. We're trying to stop China from getting as many advanced chips as possible. I admit that's OK. But this 200-page set of rules has become the hallmark of the Biden administration's attempt to treat our businesses as the enemy.

NVIDIA has cooperated with the federal government every step of the way. Jensen Wong has spent a huge amount of time going around the globe, though, trying to work with all the friendly governments, not just 18, to help them create sovereign AI. He knows that America can control everything. That's how powerful we are. But he wants to empower other nations so they don't get subsumed by us. He doesn't want to be the ugly American who dictates the things the way we did during the Cold War. It's one of the best initiatives he's worked on, and now the government's effectively ended it by fiat.

You know that I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but the U.S. needs friends. Wang is the ultimate ambassador of goodwill. This move is embarrassing, short-sighted, demeaning, and ultimately a fitting coda to an administration that seems to have it in for business at every turn. Unless it's clean energy, of course.

Of course, the government's no friend of the execs I'm meeting out here either. I'm sitting down with some of the best health care CEOs in the world today. Bristol-Myers, Boston Scientific, Medtronic, companies that's spending billions of dollars on research and development to tackle the hardest brain, heart, bone and blood based diseases. Yet they had a bullseye on their backs, too, with the Biden administration targeting some of the biggest drugs as part of the so-called Inflation Reduction Act.

I know lots of people believe that the drug companies prey on our nation and look, no industry's perfect. But when I talk to these execs, they're doing their best to tackle major unmet medical needs.

fatal needs. When I sat in front of Chris Burner, the CEO of Bristol-Myers, and listened to what his company's doing for schizophrenics, I wondered why the government is cramming down the price of Eliquis, the medicine designed to prevent strokes. As Bristol said in a release about the new rule, quote, the imposed Eliquis maximum fare price does not reflect the substantial clinical and economic value of this essential medicine, which is widely regarded for its effectiveness in reducing stroke-related events, hospitalizations, and extended rehabilitation needs, end quote.

Bristol notes that this leading coagulant is, quote, relied upon by millions of Americans daily and is the most prescribed medicine on the IRA list, not the most expensive, end quote. Like with tech, the CEOs of the drug companies here were persona non grata at the White House for the last four years.

But if you don't give Bristol-Myers a return, how the heck can it spend $14 billion to buy a company with a drug that might or might not work in diseases of the brain? The brain's really hard to crack. I worried that Bristol-Myers was making a big mistake when it bought Karuna Therapeutics, even as I cheered the attempt to go after the intractable. You can't go after the intractable without the profits from Eloquus. And believe me when I say it's not the cost of Eloquus that's the problem in this system. It's pretty much everyone else that takes money but offers nothing of real value.

I say that as someone who actually is trying to develop a drug. Even as I try to get things going, the cost of a clinical trial is astronomical and most drugs fail. It's not enough that all these tech and drug companies are targets of the Biden administration. They can become targets of each other. Which brings me to Mark Zuckerberg's interview with Joe Rogan, where Zuckerberg trotted out some old canards about how Apple's developed nothing serious since Steve Jobs died.

arguing that it stifles innovation, puts a tax on developers who sell in the app store. Look, I like both companies very much. I think they do fabulous work, but it's a cheap shot to say Apple's done nothing since Jobs. It's part of their love by companies. It's got the highest customer satisfaction rates of any large-scale brand. Billions of people use them. As someone who has loved Apple and its accoutrements, I find these comments self-serving and one-sided.

To put it simply, Zuckerberg said the things I heard nonstop from the Justice Department's antitrust division these last four years. Sure, Apple does some things that make it hard for people to leave their ecosystem. If Apple were to ease Apple's grip on the App Store, then Meta could make much more money and users might be happier. There's some truth there. But Apple's not stopping anyone else from developing a better system. At the end of the day, they invented the App Store. They can do what they want with it.

Now, every company has its problems, and there are things Apple does that we don't like that I don't like. There are things Meta does that we don't like that I don't like. I was just surprised to hear such a public thrashing. If I were Mark Zuckerberg, I would not be helping the Justice Department go after big tech. Bad precedent for Meta. These Silicon Valley guys, they got no sense of a murder.

Zuckerberg blasted the TV media for not understanding things and using sound bites to make them look bad. As someone who spent years defending this guy on air, I was surprised he went there. In the end, he made it real easy for the Justice Department by crashing Apple. And maybe that was what he wanted to do. We are in some weird moment where the two best industries we have are in the crosshairs of the federal government, with Mark Zuckerberg aiding and abetting the prosecution.

The drug companies managed to rally today because we heard their side of the story. But tech, the tag team of the government and Meta may have been too much for everyone. At the end of the day, though, buyers finally came in and found bargains in the semis and software and the drug stocks, or only the drug stocks, finished in the green. The bottom line, are the charges against these two industries just glancing blows? Nah, this is just one day where the bond market didn't crush every stock. Only the government, and yes, Meta, did that job. Let's go to Arthur in Pennsylvania. Arthur. Arthur. Arthur.

Hey, Jimmy Chill. How are you doing? I'm doing well, Chief. What's happening? So I've been holding on to these shares since October. Very bullish intent since buying. It's been red, nothing but red, and more recently, more red. What's your take on AMD? Buy, hold, sell? What should I do? Right now, AMD is doing okay. It's having trouble catching up.

to Nvidia. Frankly, I've got to tell you, it didn't get a big Amazon contract. It spent a lot of money on a couple of things. Don't seem to be working right now. I think it's just a hold. I wish I could say it's a buy, but I just don't feel I can go there. Let's go to Rich in Texas. Rich. Hey, Jim. How are you doing today? I am doing well. How about you?

All right. Hey, last year I was on your show several times talking about the undervalued United Airlines with solid fundamentals and went from $38 to $105. Maybe you remember me. You got horse sense. This year I'm bringing you Builder's First Source. No, you're not, because we talked about it today. You are absolutely right. This guy, I need a co-host. I'm tired. I'm tired.

Rich is now my co-host. I'm just making, he's got, he did United now. He's doing Builder First World. What can you ask? And he's from Texas. You can't beat that either. All right, maybe the tag team of Meta and the U.S. government is what hurt tech stocks today. Or maybe it's just one day the bond market didn't crush stocks. At least buyers are finding bargains where they can. On Made Money Tonight, I'm kicking off my time in San Francisco by checking up on a trio of healthcare players. First up, Professor Myers has been on the run since his July lows. I'm learning more about his pipeline, schizophrenia drug with the CEO. Then Boston's Identities has had

Now, what a stock. It's been great. But can it keep going higher? I'm getting a read of the road ahead with this top press. And later, medical device company Medtronic announced a new innovation to Parkinson's treatment today, intractable disease. I'm checking in with the CEO. So stay with Kramer.

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Over the last six months, we've seen an incredible turnaround at Bristol-Myers Squibb. Under the leadership of new CEO Chris Berner, the stocks rallied 40% from its lows in early July. This company's dealing with some major patent expirations, but in September, they got approved for a revolutionary new schizophrenia drug, and that's called Cobenfi, which has far fewer side effects than anything currently available. I also like the rest of the pipeline. Lots of good stuff for cardiovascular disease, oncology, immunology, and, of course, neuroscience.

The story's gotten so good that we bought some Bristol-Myers for the Charitable Trust late last year. And while we were out here for the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference, we had a chance to check in with Dr. Chris Berner. He's the chairman and CEO of Bristol-Myers. Take a look.

Chris, I love what you're doing because you are setting a foundation for long-term sustainable growth. You aren't trying to make money right now. You've got a five-year plan, maybe even longer, and I need you to tell our people about it. Well, Jim, first of all, it's great to be back with you. A lot has happened since we last got together at J.P. Morgan. We've improved our execution. We are focused on long-term growth. And coming into this year, we are squarely focused on reshaping VMS,

to be one of the fastest growing companies in the sector by the end of the decade, but we've got more work to do. It's a multi-year journey. Well, let's talk about Coventefee because I think this is possibly the biggest drug of our generation because unmet need, huge,

Standard of care now, not great. Tell us about it. Well, look, we're incredibly excited about CoBinfi. We launched last September. We're off to a very good start in terms of scripts. But more important at this point, Jim, is what we're hearing back from physicians and from patients. And there the feedback has been great.

Patients are getting benefit on their positive symptoms, hearing voices, hallucinations. But equally importantly, they're getting symptom relief also on cognition. They're able to reengage with their families. So we're really excited about schizophrenia. But as we talked about today here at this conference, we have a string of potential new indications. One new potential indication or data readout on CoBENV every year for the rest of the decade.

Incredible. Now, I do have to deal head on. J&J made an acquisition today in the neuro space. I thought it was more for major depression. But in their press release, they talked about schizophrenia, talked about bipolar. I didn't think they're the company. They have a drug from 2019, but I can't find a lot of people who are excited about it. Maybe what had you heard of it? And did you look at the company?

Well, listen, what I will tell you is it's incredibly exciting to see the new innovation that's taking place in this space. We like to see more people focused in this because the huge unmet need that we see, schizophrenia, a million and a half patients treated with schizophrenia in the U.S., and unfortunately, in Telco-Binfi, we did not have a fundamentally new mechanism of action to treat those patients, and now we do. We get efficacy on par with the

best of the existing atypicals but we don't see the side effect profile that you see with those drugs and that's why we're so excited about cobin did you look at the company that jnj bought today well look we look at a lot of companies in this space business development is going to continue to be a priority for us we've always sourced innovation externally and the way we think about it is can we bring the science in does it make strategic sense for us and importantly you referenced this earlier

Can we use this science and these new products to improve the growth profile for the company as we exit this decade? That's what we're focused on. I glossed over something, and I apologize. When you talk about the side effect profile, I don't think people realize what's been going on, how people are treated, and why they don't stay on it. Please explain to people how...

that drugs are hated by the actual populace who has to use them. Well, the unfortunate thing in schizophrenia is for decades what's happened is patients will cycle through multiple drugs until they find something that works to alleviate the positive symptoms, hallucinations, for example.

But unfortunately, it carries with side effects like significant weight gain. They can't focus. And that leads patients to go off therapy. And that's what we're so excited about. Copenfeet, great efficacy on par with existing therapies, but you don't get those side effects. Talk about bipolar trial, because this is a another illness that affects millions of people worldwide.

Well, we've got a number of new indications potentially coming. We have three phase threes starting this year, including in bipolar mania, where, again, the existing standard of care are older, atypicals, many are used off-label, and unfortunately, we haven't seen a fundamentally new mechanism in many, many decades, and there's potential here. Now, how about what could be going on with Alzheimer's for you?

Well, what we like about one of the studies that we'll be reading out this year, we have three phase three studies with CoBENFI on Alzheimer's disease psychosis. There are six million Americans who are diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Half of those patients get psychosis symptoms. And so we're looking to potentially use CoBENFI to treat them. But right now, most patients who have psychosis symptoms are treated again, mainly off-label with existing atypicals. Now, I do want to talk about the...

what I regard as being a safe dividend that people are concerned about because you do have a lot of loss of exclusivity situations. So please talk about PatentCliff within the context of how you've got a lot of firepower and a great balance sheet. So maybe it shouldn't be a front concern given your history of a dividend. Well, Jim, look, our LOE exposure for this decade is pretty well known. But here's the good news.

Number one, we're not the first company to go through this. We've had our own patent losses over time and we have a plan and we're executing that plan. And there are three components of that plan. First, we've got a young portfolio of growing assets, grew nicely last year, good momentum this year. We have a string of new catalysts that are going to have data coming out over the next 18 to 24 months. And then you mentioned it, we're in a strong financial position, gives us the ability to give money back to shareholders through an attractive dividend that we've paid over 90 years.

and go out and source innovation externally. Well, let's talk about the rest of the growth portfolio. Let's talk about oncology because a lot of people say, hey, they're done. Are you done? We are definitely not done in oncology. We have an exciting suite of opportunities across multiple therapeutics, including

including oncology. We are a leader today in immuno-oncology. We've made good progress in extending that business potentially into the next decade. We've added to our position in targeted therapies, and importantly, Jim, we have platforms. So we have cell therapy in oncology. That's going to continue to generate opportunities. And last year, when we did the deal with Raise Bio, we bought into one of the fastest growing platforms in solid tumor oncology, which is radiopharmaceuticals. So we feel good about maintaining our leadership

position. Talk about what Radio Pharmaceutical is. It's novel. How do you feel about it? We feel very good about it. We did the deal shortly after I became CEO in December of 2023. We're going to actually see the first data coming out from that platform in a couple of years with our Raise 101 program. But we think this could be a really important opportunity

potentially in the long run, displace chemotherapy. Now people are going to say, Jim, why didn't you mention Eliquis? Eliquis is going off pad. It's going to be a disaster for them. Cardiovascular is an area we have been a leader in for a long time, going back to the Plavix days. Eliquis is an important drug for us today. But we know, Jim, about 40% of patients in atrial fibrillation, for example, can't benefit from factor XAs. We have an opportunity with our drug Milvexine, which is a factor XIa.

one of the products that are going to be reading out over the next two years to address that unmet need in AFib. We also have two other studies running in parallel. Okay, I want to circle back on Coventry because I've done a lot of work with brain. And if you are a parent of someone who has schizophrenia, or unfortunately one of the people who is homeless because of schizophrenia, tell people how they can get in the trial, what do they have to do, because...

on the f_d_a_ is so in favor of this that uh... they put out the release ahead of you well listen we've got a great opportunity with schizophrenia we have an ongoing a junket schizophrenia study that will read out this year that's combination use but if you look at the additional trials we have coming talk to your physician look online on clinton ross dot government and you know what we've got tremendous opportunity help many more patients with this medicine it's one of many things were working on b_m_s_

transform this company and deliver top-tier growth by the end of the day. We've got to get the word out. It's really important for every city in America and the world. We know this. Well, one of the things we love about CoBenfi, Jim, is we have a real opportunity with this medicine to change the narrative around this disease. Okay. Well, thank you for everything you do. Just so people know, I doubted you on brain. I said, come on, don't go after brain, and no one can solve the brain. But you went for it. Well, this is hard stuff, but it's what we do at Bristol-Myers. Fantastic. Chris Berner, Bristol-Myers CEO. Thank you, Chris. Thank you.

Great to be back. Coming up, can Boston Scientific keep its momentum going after a banner 2024? Kramer is finding out when he sits down with the company's CEO next. Every day, thousands of Comcast engineers and technologists create connectivity solutions that change the way we work, live, and

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Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. We're out here in San Francisco for the annual J.P. Morgan Healthcare Conference. And a few companies are coming to this event with more momentum than Boston Scientific, the maker of minimally invasive medical devices best known for its cardiology franchise. They've also got a big medical surgical business, too, and one that spans everything from endoscopy to urology to neuromodulation.

Last year, Boston Scientific's stock rallied roughly 55%, largely thanks to its new pulse-fueled ablation system for arterial fibrillation. Now, this is also known as AFib. The stock's up another 6% year-to-date, thanks to J&J, which just paused the launch of a competing product a couple of months after its approval after four reports of strokes. Serious stuff.

I think all the focus on AFib does a disservice to Boston Scientific. This company's about more than one product. It's got a great portfolio. I bet it can generate double-digit growth across the entire business. Very rare for pharma. But don't take it from me. Earlier today, we got a chance to speak with Mike Mahoney. He's the chairman and CEO of Boston Scientific. Take a look.

Mike, what can I say? You are on a roll. I think that you may be in the best shape of any of the companies that I'm speaking with today. Tell us about what you're doing right now. And by the way, you have a new acquisition that we got to talk about. We do. Well, thanks for having me, Jim. It's an honor to be here. Well, first of all, we're coming off of an excellent 2023 and we had even better 2024. And we aim to have a terrific 25 and beyond. I'm so proud of the talent across our company. You know, the key for us is we have eight businesses that

Almost all of them are growing faster than the market. But then we have two breakthrough products that are transforming healthcare and product called Ferropulse and Watchman that like to get into you. But that's really driving the global growth of the company. Now Ferropulse, you've got to talk about what it means to have the kind of market share you have. And also, look, you never want to wish badly on a competitor, but there was something that happened just this week with J&J that to me solidifies your stand.

So the treatment of AFib is so important. There's over 40 million patients who suffer from AFib. If you have AFib, your heart beats irregularly. It can cause heart failure, potentially lead to stroke, a serious condition. So FerroPulse has really transformed this market. So it'll be our largest business in 2025. We've gone from the number four player, we'll be number two in 2025, and then we're aiming to be number one shortly thereafter.

But why FerriPulse is so great for hospitals, physicians and patients ultimately, it's a safer procedure. So people with AFib who are younger, people with AFib who are older with comorbidities are being treated with the FerriPulse. It's a safer procedure. It's very efficacious. We've done over 200,000 of them. And hospitals love it because it's about 25 to 30% faster.

So patients get in and out of the hospital more quickly, have a safe procedure, reduce their risk of stroke, reduce the risk of heart failure, and it's changing the market. Well, that sounds like something that RFK Jr., who is very concerned and worried about vaccines, and I get that. I mean, it's something that will not impact your business at all. To me, you'd be one of the few that I disregard as safe under this new administration. Yeah, so I would say in med tech in general,

We don't have like tremendous pricing power. We typically have flattish price and we deliver products that are clinically tested, have excellent safety track record and are significantly beneficial to patients. Now, Watchman, we've got to talk about it, reduces the risk of stroke. This is the big fear. People don't know about it until they hear it. They think it's kind of boilerplate. It isn't boilerplate. No.

So Watchman, I'm so proud of. So Ferripulse is an existing market that we're transforming. Watchman's a market that we created. It'll be well over a $2 billion market this year. We've been growing to $6 billion in a couple years based on our clinical trials. So Watchman is a product where if you have AFib, you have a higher risk of stroke. So if you get treated with Ferripulse to hopefully fix your AFib, then what Watchman will do is further reduce your risk of stroke and allow patients who are indicated to get off blood thinners.

So to go back to live a normal life, an active life, without the fear and risk of bleeding that so many patients have. We've got to drill down on that because I think people have to understand that an older person is fearful after the pulse field ablation that they might fall because they could be anywhere and bleed out very quickly. Yes. So I may be a hip-up, but my mother just received a Watchman device. And the reason she did it, she wanted to reduce her risk of stroke, but she wanted to walk her dog.

She wanted to walk her dog in the wintertime. She wanted to risk a falling. So being able to get off blood thinners, reduce your risk of stroke in a procedure that takes less than an hour, and you're out of the hospital in the same day. Now, one of the things that you do well that others don't, other companies are spending billions on new drugs. They don't have that kind of pipeline. You had the foresight to be involved with Watchmen very early on. Yeah.

Yeah. So what we do is we think about innovation all the time. And that's the key for our business, all about innovation in your people and the culture of the company. And so we're positioning the company to be great and differentiate for the next 10 years. So one way we do that besides our organic R&D is we have the largest venture portfolio in MedTech. So this year in 24, we did nine new investments in our venture portfolio. And our venture portfolio is 45 companies. So these are very early stage companies. Right.

And historically we have acquired about a third of those companies from our venture portfolio. So it's another way for us to drive innovation beyond our, what we do organically with our internal R and D people need to know it's not all heart. No, no. We have eight different divisions with the largest endoscopy company in the world with the largest urology company in the world. We just acquired a company called Axonics to help, uh,

treat women with overactive bladder. We have a large neuromodulation division. We have a large interventional oncology business, peripheral vascular. So there's eight divisions, most all of them growing well above their peer group. So what should we be hearing about next? I mean, I was blown away at how big Watchman's could be.

Talk about some of these others because I think people feel that right now you're really Farrah Pulse and Watchman, not much else, and that's really wrong. Not true at all. First of all, I will say with Farrah Pulse and Watchman, now there's a procedure where you do both at the same time, which is even, that's just as recently. How many docs know how to do that?

Most all electrophysiologists and about a third of the interventional cardiologists are doing that today. So there's thousands of them. So a couple of the big products. So we have another product called Agium, which is a drug-coated balloon for the coronaries. We just acquired a company called Bolt, which is called intravascular ultrasound. Right. Talk about that because I thought that was really exciting. And something that people were, it's pretty invasive without that.

Yeah, so we have the widest portfolio to treat coronary artery disease, the plumbing in the heart. And so this is yet another tool to reduce and break up calcium to prepare a stent procedure. And so you want to see the artery, prepare and treat the artery at the same time. So we're able to visualize it with our imaging, and we have various tools to treat the artery. Talk about that because, I mean, it's pretty simple.

Frankly, I thought it was science fiction. No, I'm not kidding. It's laser based. I mean, it's kind of crazy. Essentially, it's a balloon that you'll image the heart first. Then you'll put a balloon where the vessel is, where there's a need for a stent. And you'll actually lasers actually break up the calcium within the vessel. So you prepare that vessel for a stent. So that way, the stent is going to work, do its job perfectly.

I've got to tell you, people don't realize how hard the things that you're doing. These are things that people, some of these were just death. They're fatalities. And you've taken this off the table. I want to congratulate you for all the things you're doing. Mike Loney is the chairman and CEO of Boston Scientific, which, by the way, is the best performing of all the companies we're going to see. But maybe with the exception of Eli Lilly. We've got to put him in there. We'll keep it going. All right. Thank you so much. We'll be back in a moment.

Coming up, could a new treatment for Parkinson's be on the horizon? Kramer's sitting down with the CEO of Medtronic to discuss it. Next.

While we're out here in San Francisco for the J.P. Morgan Healthcare Conference, we got a chance to catch up with Medtronic, the huge medical device company that's focused on cardiovascular disease, neuroscience, and diabetes. While this stock's kind of been lost in the wilderness for years, it's become an intriguing option here as it's had a bunch of successful product launches. And after the sell-off in recent months, it's darn cheap. Earlier today, I sat down with Jeff Martha. He is the chairman and CEO of Medtronic. You get a better sense of where his company's going, and you got to take a look.

Jeff, you have so many things going on, but I understand you've got something right now that you want to tell me about. Well, first of all, Jim, thanks for having me. We're super excited to be here at this year's J.P. Morgan, given all the innovation we've got coming. And the late break that we just announced today has to do with something near and dear to your heart, DBS for Parkinson's.

We just got CE mark, so approval in Europe and many other countries for what they call adaptive DBS. So like we talked about before, our technology can sense signals in the brain. Now we got the algorithm approved that allows for real time adjustments to the therapy automatically.

And so that just got approved. We're also just millions of people with no hope. I mean, I know that you've got something. You're actually the pioneer in this field. Right. But what how how is this going to change lifestyle?

Well, first of all, instead of like, as you know, Parkinson's is a, it gets worse over time, right? Yeah. And so the DBS gets updated. The therapy we provide would get updated episodically when the patient would go back into their physician along with the Medtronic representative and we would update the therapy

for where the patient is. Now, it happens automatically, real time, every day with this adaptive. So it's better for the patient. It's also better for the healthcare system because it's a lower burden. And I do think this will help physicians inspire them to prescribe it more because it's less of a burden on the healthcare system. Well, congratulations. I think that you guys have historically gone after the toughest thing. People don't go after Parkinson's because of the failure rate. Right.

But you often have a device way to go, like you're doing with hypertension. Not enough comment on that. I hope that the government will pay because the unmet need here for hypertension is just extraordinary. It's massive. It's the number one contributor to death in the world.

50% of cardiovascular disease or stroke related death is caused by hypertension. And if you have hypertension, 75% of the people who have it don't have it under control. They stop taking their meds within one year. And so this is a new to world therapy that we've talked about on the show before, got approved about a year ago from the FDA. And since then we've been putting the reimbursement pieces, the puzzle pieces in place.

And just January 1, the outpatient-- this is going to be an outpatient procedure. Which is incredible because it's still-- they go up. I mean, it's invasive versus what they're not. Well, I don't know about invasive. Patients-- we're finding great response from patients. Mild anesthesia, you wake up, you don't know what happened. You don't feel pain. And over the next couple of days and weeks, your blood pressure goes down. And so we just got this outpatient procedure payment approved.

And so that's the one in effect January 1. And the last piece of the puzzle is just who is going to get covered, right? Which patients? And that's what we're working with CMS, you know, the U.S. government, as well as commercial payers around. And look, once we get that piece snapped in, this is going to scale. Oh, yeah. And I think that people don't realize that

Most people stop because they don't know that they have anything wrong. Right. It's a silent killer. It's a silent killer. Now, another thing that no one wants to tackle, pain. But you're doing that too. Yeah, it comes back to this sensing technology. We've got it now in the brain and now for the spinal cord as well, sensing pain signals and adjusting the therapy. And we're interrogating your spinal cord 50 times a second to identify the pain because pain is hard to quantify.

and to adjust. This, you know, you're familiar with Nature. It's one of the leading clinical publications. Just once we get the CE mark approval, they also acknowledge that this is a brain computer interface device.

It's now classified as a BCI, brain computer interface, and now it'll be the, you know, we've already got 40,000 people with DBS, this technology alone. So it orders a magnitude, the largest BCI device out there. Now I have to ask you, I mean, you're always working on something that I don't know that's just about to be approved. What else is in the pipe right here?

Well, I'd say, look, one that's we're in the moment on is AFib. AFib is, you know, it's a huge problem as people get older and they're starting to live their hearts. But there's that competitive Boston Scientific in the lead right now. J&J, though, looks like they're, let's just say, in trouble for what they've done. Yeah, look, I think they're the J&J is the incumbent with the the previous technology, which which worked fine.

fairly well, but this new technology that Boston Scientific and Medtronic are advancing is a step forward. And, you know, we're the two leaders here. Boston got here first, but we've got the most comprehensive. They've got big market share. They've got big market share in this area, but we've got a more comprehensive portfolio, and we believe our latest technology, known as Afera, is the highest in band from physicians, and we're scaling that now. You are willing to take on diabetes in a way no one else is other than Abb.

and congratulations to you for willing to work with, be an opponent to make it for the patient. Right. Look, technology, some of the problems with healthcare in the industry is we come out with point solutions that work in a niche-y way. If you're really going to have impact, you've got to work across the ecosystem, broader solutions. And for us, that means working with other companies. We've worked, we were just talking about, we worked with SpaceX even, outside our industry.

Inside the industry, we just announced recently, a couple months ago, a partnership with Siemens, the Siemens Healthineers, how we could take imaging and help our surgical business. And then recently Abbott, who's a competitor to help with our diabetes solution. It is worth mentioning that you did work with Elon Musk during the COVID epidemic, and he seemed to be someone pretty knowledgeable. He was extremely knowledgeable. I was blown away. Like, this is a valve that we had trouble procuring for our ventilators back in the ventilator crisis, and it just so happened SpaceX

was making that same valve for their spacecraft that have life support systems in them. Well, I've got to tell you, we just go over all the different things that you are working on. And I'm talking about ablation, cardio, diabetes. But I've got to tell you, Jeff, the one thing I don't understand, $80 for a company that's got consistent mid-single digit, maybe even high single digit growth for a lot. Micro, for instance, I

I don't get it. I don't get what your stock's still doing at 80. Well, look, what we can do, we control, we can control. Right now, we're driving a lot of innovation that's going to get our top line. The financial algorithm that we're shooting for and we're committed to is that, at the very least, that mid-single-digit revenue growth and then translating that revenue growth to leveraged earnings down the P&L. So we've already told the street this back half of the year we're going to have high single-digit EPS.

and then you add our dividend on top of that, you get to a double-digit return. And so as we continue to prove that, I think the stock will take care of itself. A little personal situation. I've got to go for the colonoscopy. I've asked for your AI. Will I get it? Well, it's out there scaled now. It's becoming the standard of care, so we can easily get that to you. Tell us, it was 18% they were missing last time I spoke to you. Apparently, the number's much higher. As we've gotten it out there, these big GI gastrointestinology practices are realizing they're missing up to half the polyps.

Well, I wish I understood exactly why the profession itself is not up to what you guys are doing. But I know what you're doing is terrific. I want to thank Jeff Martha, CEO of Medtronic, for doing everything. Thank you very much. Be back in a second. Coming up, Kramer takes your calls. And the sky's the limit. It's a fast-fire lightning round. Next.

It is time. It's time for the Light Round Currency. Let's start with Brett in California. Brett.

Jim, Jim, what is going on with this stock? I've owned this stock as long as Warren Buffett. What is happening to Kraft Heinz? Well, what's happening to Kraft Heinz is exactly what should happen to Kraft Heinz. That's the worst collection of brands I've ever seen. I think those guys should continue to go lower, and they are living up to their expectations. Let's go to Jersey in New Jersey. Jersey. Hi, how are you, sir?

I'm good. How about you? I'm great. Thank you for your leadership and execution skills. Oh, you're very kind. Thank you very much. I hope to bump into you someday. Thank you, sir. I'm right over here by Woodland Park. Oh, okay. Sure. I'll be over there. Yeah, yeah. My question is, I'm all about manifestation, so it just makes sense because my mom used to work for Ralph Lauren. What's the power behind Ralph Lauren?

Well, Ralph Lauren, first of all, great American, won the Medal of Freedom. But I'll tell you what's the power behind it. They've got tremendous design. It's time-honored. I've got an eagle scarf. Well, it's green literally for 15 years, and it still looks terrific. I'm emblematic. I like the blue label. I've got the purple label. And I think that, you know, Patrice LeVay is dynamite. You've got a winner there. Let's go to Anthony in Florida. Anthony. Hey.

Hey, Jim. Booyah. Yo. Booyah. Jim, I'm a really big fan of Opera. I think the company is trading at a cheap price relative to their fair value, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I used to go to the opera. I liked Carmen, and I liked a lot of the German operas. But I don't know about opera, this opera. You stumped me. Let me do some work. I am going to go to my chief scientist, Ben Stoto, find out what's going on there. Let's go to Tom in New York. Tom. Booyah, Jimbo. Congrats to you, birds. My lifelong suffering just end here. Boy, I wish I could help you there. But there's a new coach from the Cowboys. He might be your man.

I think McCarthy's on there. Let's go. I'm ready. I'm sorry.

I'm a huge believer in Aspen Aerogel, ticker symbol ASPN. They signed some super big contracts in 2024. There's hopefully more to come. I want to load up, Jimbo. Give me the green light. What do you mean to load up? I mean, it's a big, sickle stock that, you know, may be good, may be bad. You need the Fed to cut rates 17 times for that to happen, okay? I mean, maybe 42 times. I would be very slow in buying that stock. Let's go to Jacob, my home state of Pennsylvania. Jacob.

Hey, Jim. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. Go Birds. Go Birds. I wanted to ask your opinion on Arbutus Biopharma, ticker ABUS. Okay, this is the ultimate spec. It's a $3 stock. It loses money. You know, you could go to the casino. You could play any kind of touchdown for a series of tight ends for the Eagles, or you could buy our butchers. Take your pick. How about Jacob in Alaska? Jacob.

Hey, Jim, thanks for taking my call and for all that you and your team do. Long time listener, club member, first time caller here. Thank you.

As a frequent flyer, I have a lot of experience with the major airlines. And given your recent discussions on the sector, I know where you stand on Delta and United. Yes. I want to know your thoughts and longer-term outlook on my hometown carrier and best-of-breed Alaska Airlines. Oh, man, they are so good. This is their moment. I think you have a total winner. I would stick with it. How about we go to Henry in New York? Henry!

Hey, Professor Kramer. Thanks for sharing your encyclopedic knowledge with us home gamers. Oh, and thank you for giving me tenure. What's going on?

Looking to add some M&A-specific stock to my portfolio and looking at KKR, but want to hear what your best in breed might be. This wouldn't be Henry Kravis, would it? I mean, is this Henry calling in or a different Henry from New York? I'm going to bet it's not Henry Kravis, but I am going to say that I like the stock very much, and I think those guys are so smart. Buy, buy, buy!

I would be a buyer. At one point, it was down really big today. That made no sense to me whatsoever. Let's go to Walter in this never-ending lightning round. Walter. Jim, great to talk to you from the Garden State. Right with you. Oh, man, I love the Garden State. I'm like all over it. What's going on? I don't know. Well, I'll tell you, I'm a little bit of a conundrum. I've always thought of myself as a fairly intelligent guy. And about last year on your show, a money manager recommended Crown Castle.

I bought it way up there at about 113. It's dropped about 25%. Why? I don't know. It's got a great deal. Okay, the $7 billion thing didn't go through with TPG. Right. They're not losing any revenue. What the heck? No, but the one thing I would say is I haven't had a money manager on this show and been on for 20 years, so I don't think a manager recommended that, and I have not liked Crown Castle for ages. So all I can say is don't look at me, but stick with Kramer.

The Lightning Round is sponsored by Charles Schwab. The gamification of the quantum computer stocks is finally wrapping up. And all it took was a one-two punch from NVIDIA's Jensen Wang and Meta's Mark Zuckerberg to knock them to the canvas. In the most wide-ranging interview I've seen in ages, the Joe Rogan-Mark Zuckerberg lovefest,

Zuckerberg said, quote, I'm not really an expert on quantum computing, but my understanding is that it's still quite a ways off from being a truly practical paradigm, end quote. Very similar to what we heard from Jensen last week when he said it could be 20 or 30 years before we're using quantum computing commercially. Just a crushing blow to the jokers who take this stuff up.

I, for one, am glad they popped the bubble because the quantum computing companies are such money losers. And some of them were pretty darn quick, by the way, to raise money at any price. Take Rigetti Computing, please. The company sold 50 million shares at $2 just a few weeks ago, yet it traded $21 a week ago for plunging back to $6 and changed today. What kind of craziness is that?

So what was really going on here? I told investing club members that there's a game going on that has nothing to do with quantum computing. It's the GameStop short busting story all over again. The gamers come in early, usually between 4 and 6 a.m. They buy and they buy and they buy some more. They catch short sellers unaware as no longs are really up at that hour. The shorts think they're betting against them is easy money. Let's say the stock's trading at 30. OK, the game stores come in. They take it to 31, then 32, then 33, working at higher. The shorts figure that they can cover it at the opening and make a few bucks.

But instead, what happens is the excited latecomers come flying in. They start paying $34, $35, $36. The early morning buyers ring the register as the shorts panic and cover.

What a great trade! Except this time, Wang and Zuckerberg wrecked everything by simply telling the truth as they know it about quantum computing, which is that it's probably not going to be commercially viable until I'm in my 90s. Look, it's painful to root against the people who buy stocks, whether it's quantum computing or small-form nuclear reactors or clean energy. But the fact is, these moves never had anything to do with science. They were purely about the longs joining hands to nail the short sellers.

I want this blood sport game nipped in the bud. It's a classic case of froth. Froth means top. We don't want top for heaven's sake. Which is why I was glad when the quantum computing bubble popped. There are so many things going wrong right now. I worry about tariffs and taxes, bond auctions, sticky inflation, Fed rate cut pauses. I can deal with those. What I can't deal with is this kind of unsustainable greed. I can't expect the CEOs of these speculative companies to say what Jensen and Mark said. They would be stupid.

But the fact is the insiders tend to jump on the opportunity to sell. That's exactly what happened during the dot-com collapse in 2001 when a lot of profitless companies saw their stocks explode higher, only for them to be crushed by secondary revenues or insider selling. What followed was the worst bear market for growth stocks in years. I'm

I'm betting there will be a lot more losses once the air is totally out of the quantum balloon. So it's not too late, believe it or not, to sell, given where these stocks came from. I'm hoping this will be a lesson that the GameStop era is over. It's time for these buyers just to go to DraftKings or FanDuel if they simply want to gamble. That's where this stuff belongs. Or to put it in a way these people might understand, these people are putting on a 14-parlay of Rigetti, quantum computing, iCosmos,

IONQ, and D-Wave Quantum, to which I say good luck, but it makes a lot more sense than what these chowder heads are doing now. Betting on the actual stocks, at least DraftKings is regulated. To the Flusters, I want to end this screen with a real good denouement, just like the one they're suffering right now. Here's your hat. Watch your hurry. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I like to say there's always a bull market somewhere. Problems are fine. Just for you right here on Mad Money, I'm Jim Cramer. See you tomorrow from San Francisco.

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