AI Shopping with Perplexity & Trump’s Picks with Mike Allen 11/18/24
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Hi, i'm cnbc producer katy cramer today on school pod lining up the players in the next trump administration president elect trump .

doesn't want to write of the markets a new .

cabinet coming together with speed mike Allen of axiom on trump two point o he's .

going in to do put some people have called the hospital takeover of the government and that's the message that these .

picks and and the latest in the AI revolution algorithms that will answer your questions and fill your shopping carts. Rising star platform perplexity cofounder in CEO erivan the screen VS is pushing his model ahead.

You need to actually enable actions. What do you do after an answer, purchase or transaction? So all these products need to get there.

All of that today plus the rest of the news that got a it's monday, november eighteen th squad pod begins right now.

Stand Becky by in three, two, one, two, three.

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to school box right here on cnbc. We are alive from the next act market side in time square. I'm back quick along with joe kernan and Andrew ross sorkin.

I've got a lot of news for you, starting with this spirit airlines filing for bankruptcy protection early this morning, the Carrier announced a pre ranged deal with its bond holders. This was expected in so IT expects to continue Operating Normally throughout the process. In the filing, spirit, saying that expects thirty quarter margins to be twelve percent lower year over year and sales will be sixty one million dollars lower as well.

Tesla shares, they're jumping again this after a blipper report said present electronic transition team surprised about this planning to make a federal framework to regulate self driving vehicles. Report saying that the framework would be a top priority for the department of transportation. Of course, the speculation is that elan must would have a large role, at least some influence over how that all worked out.

I think we always thought that. I think that was I thought that was already built, built into the time. I so i'm a little surprised .

um I guess hearing IT straight up um that it's actually going to happen would be a big deal. It's been such a huge part of tesla's move for what they have planned next and IT would have to get done, but we'll see .

what happens. And interesting to see if states and this I don't know, can stage overall, na.

I I don't know .

the answer that, but obviously, there have been some states have taken more aggressive stance around arizona, parts of california, allowing these vehicles to to to drive on the roads. Other states have decided not to do this. If niza for example of this is is is the formal um even regulator that would regulate all of this said yes, self driving cars on all roads all the time. Could they do that? I know. I mean.

I guess I wouldn't have teeth unless they threatens federal funding for roads would go away if you didn't follow and comply with somebody things that have federal government is pushed through. I don't know state, local things in the past, they tied to .

federal funding. But with cars, i'm just trying to think, but I don't know with with E, P, A standards actually write every every state has their own standard, like what kind of work we sold in the state. But I don't know about every kind of kind we driven in the state.

This Better not happen. I just bought my career s of the right now I own the thing, so and I is is not self driving. There's seven speeds up in the club, but I interested in this. And also I don't know what does IT mean cover the all three journal. Investors are betting on a market melt up that just makes me think.

oh my got.

I don't know, not necessarily. But you do have investors now bullish. Ed, at forty nine point eight percent. That's pretty bullish.

All this money is moving in exchange trade ted funds, fifty six billion in the weekend did it's all happening the what about twenty three times earnings and that's find IT. But less week, we are down little and IT could happen. Money is liquidity seems like a trumps everything .

not to use out word liquidity and government regulations becoming more lighter.

more or there's a lot of reasons why everyone is, what jammy time they're dancing in the streets or something for bankers and possible mergers. Um IT just all seems to to patch, then you put them on the cover. Wall street journal that there a elt a .

president and electrons ane's .

advisers are now considering a new slate of contenders for treasury secretary. Reports say a messy fight over the role has irritated, trumped his team in recent days. Among the people now being discussed for the role, former fed governor and square guess Kevin wash, Apollo global management C.

E. O mark rome, and we had a bill highly, the republics from tennessee, and we knew he was in the running, continued to be in the mix. Scott percent in Howard letton. C there are the long time front runner for the job cut. Los been maintained.

Uh, many are said to be in contention, although reports say an aggressive campaign by latinic and his allies to land the job art president truck and some of his advisers you are must wait about the candidates on saturday, he said. My view, for what it's worth, is that the percent is a business as usual choice for Howard. Latinic will actually an ACC change.

Business as usual is driving amErica bankrupt. So we need to change one way another. And he felt the need to actually say that he's around and you study right next to the mac, right next to steady, next to the .

president that I was wondering, they're on the plane. They are going to the U. F, C. Fight the garden right there.

the public pressure. And you wonder rattes did you right?

Just that. Does that irritate him? right? And then, but would trump to say why you why you're eating? You can just tell me what you think you're sitting right .

here that he's got two hundred and five million followers. Now I guess he's got to record and I saw that.

But then the other question is the business is .

useful people yeah .

I don't want to suggest you I don't want to suggest that that Kevin wars or mark or sa percent, our business is usual. But I think the day would be more business usual and I think that the markets .

would like business is usual and and that one of the articles I read executed that president electronic doesn't want to rattle the market. He's very fond of looking at the the stock market as a barometer of how he's doing. So yeah.

business is it's funning. We all thought, and I still think that study tion did a remarkable the articles suggested that he did not. He thought that sometimes Steve monument was sort of off the reservation, doing his own thing, which I .

think was the right thing. Tty, it's there were a because trump would have not had him there anymore.

take much to do something that probably irks president electrum pat tempoed. Not that that's necessarily at a huge faul, but you know it's pretty a pretty tough on everyone I think john nis now to talk about that trumps other picks over the weekend. My gallon from x IOS。

There's there's an article I saw somewhere like that. Mega is just embracing the K R say love IT. They just love the chaos. And we've had some we've had some, you know R F K junior for for health. And I don't know what's gona happen to mad gate, supposedly. Can you tell us there more than half the republicans, I think, saying on a second, and then you get treasury sector, got anything new on that?

This is a very unusual situation because, as you've seen, personal truth has been adult to the metal on these pics. More than half of his cabinet picks already out and american american university professor over the weekend give some stats. This is like seven times faster than president biden picked his cabinet.

But here he's slowing his role on treasury. He's saying, stop what's work at some new candidates and and I would not expect action on this today or tomorrow. There's to be a serious look at cabin wars your viewers retina very well and mark grown, they are going to be down a mario go.

And what happened here? There was a big list. The two, the more on IT the governor where I live, Virginia, uh, was on that list, took himself out.

Governor Young can took himself out um but you got this what the new york time is calling a nigh fight between Howard scot passed and the president was like, wow, let's look at some other candidate so I think the situation that you have now there could there be a contest be for brazil y secretary, where the number one job, as you guys suggested, is reassuring the markets at one hundred percent agree with what you read of what in his mind. And as you look at these candidates, if you think about trump, what does trump like? Trump like Peter gory.

And trump is obsessed with the market. And that's why I can see Kevin walsh as a very strong candid is your viewers know he was the Youngest fed governor when he became a fed governor. He someone that the markets love and I can see being a very strong candidate. Second, uh, choice the back of job that may be offered uh, to some of these candidate to is director of the White house national economic counts.

The feed job not gona open up for a while .

for watch be. I say that that that your exposure on joe, that remains his long game, but the thinking in his world is that could come later in the truck. Ter.

I think Kevin has a year of a lot of really smart people, as we know, to rock Miller. Others in this would probably would be taken positively the summer team but he's no um you know he doesn't to flood the market with liquidity. I can tell you that much, which which helps obviously Marks he he has been a critic of the fed and not only the guidance given so much, but also how long they were zero. And you know the cost of money wasn't being in capital IT was too easy to for the go places where you have gone. So I I don't know if that's perfect for what a real state guy is looking for, low interest .

rate guy here. The the put side of that is I mentioned that the number one uh, thing present, what trump is looking forward, someone to reassure the markets like market stability, market satisfaction, makes everything else the the president is tranquility possible. He knows that one of the reasons for his decisive win was the direction of the economy.

And so he's gonna judged very much on that. And that's why this is such a central pic. And that's why all these picks that we're seeing or establishment types people that would be acceptable on wall street, you're not seeing the left field picks. The more impulsive pics that we you saw some for some of the other jobs.

That's interesting. Yeah so this really matters to trump. So he doesn't need to send signals to the disrupters that want everything shaken up here. It's almost once the antti disrupter for for for the important economic change. That's that's .

a perfect .

frame at department .

of defence of the health stick.

This guy, although he is going be interesting to see how this plays out. My, what are you hearing just in terms of whether these candidates will these nominees will be pushed through by the senate, whether they'll be reached appointments, what's the latest?

What else doesn't know but the uh the monologue, what else uh, doesn't know yet, but they're keeping all their options over. What i'm told is that really like truth is really feeling is Mandate. That's why you've seen these deep pant aggressive picks, and there's enough of them that they figure if they lose a few of them.

That they still will be able to move the agenda. And i'm told what's in the president's mind is he saying, these are people are fighters, these people who are people who see the system the way I see the system, who also feel either victims of the system or see, uh, the system as the enemy. And he's going in to do what some people have called the hospital takeover of the government.

And that's the message that these picks send. He's opening up different ways to do IT. Could we do some of them without congress? Can we do some of the by pressuring congress? I got very interesting at twist that was shared with me is they see the R, F, K confirmation hearing as a picture, not a bug.

We see IT as a massive platform for the rubber candidate view on health. And so what they said to me is sure the senators are ask going to ask him about vaccines and floride, but he's going to talk about how this health system is all messed up. So they actually .

are optimistic that gates, I think all of kate juniors, serious for soon. We see if you agree with this, I think there is a Young guy, I that I think really wanted in a majority later. I do not think you would you would do a recess appointment for markets that right out, right out the box with you.

That wouldn't be the way you should start. How long with mcconnell, my twenty years, or sound longer ever, right? right?

By the way, I love IT. IT says a something about our government that we could sit here and say that john to three is a Young man course. You know .

the truth .

is Young that's interesting.

You know he could go twenty years, my s eighty two I think or something so IT could be a twenty years stint as is i'm sure he's open for that but what you start if if they don't release the report, you know mike john says not even going to release IT because he's out of out of the house but if they don't release that there, I just don't see anyway that IT ends up happening more more than he have the center is is it's a stated um I think intention of more than half not legal form isn't that or not?

Well, here's the math and I think IT uh uh confirms uh your hunch there. Republicans can only lose three senate boats and then they can have former center jd vans right to tie. And you can count four senators who might go against him there.

Couple of senators have been against these specific packs. There's a couple of senators who are just establishment of uh, oriented toward the system. And so you can easily get to four.

There could be new information come about lot about any of these nominees. H, I heard that there is more attention inside marble ego being paid to vetting. A since the news stories about some of these are candid, there was betting this is sometimes a this portrait in the press. But IT isn't, in any sense, the usual tomorrow process with FBI checks and all that.

My two other questions, we talked to a mark roman, who I think actually one of the smartest people on wall street. He obvious ly runs one of the biggest firms, the public traded firm. The stock not down that much this morning in the prime market, which suggests to me that maybe the market doesn't think that this is in the often what do you think about that?

That's your world more than I say that mark is like, uh, fasten pic is, you know I came back, uh, to run Apollo a here is coming back from asia for his a morale go meeting and so too very impressive candidates who check all of trumps boxes and that's why he's saying, give me new names by by the way, we're chatting about h ages um Young by washington standards not by the standards of the table of course but actually Young Kevin wars at fifty four.

And then the other question that I have a few, mike, is we've been talking about test of the stock is ripping this morning and i'm going to ask you so much about the stock, but this idea of making autonomous vehicles regulated and creating A A framework that that I imagine folks must think is going to be influenced by elon musto a large degree for the stock to be moving the way that well IT is becking. I were talking earlier about how we thought that was already sort of baked .

into the know this like your tax going to move with a headline like this. What I can tell you about how iran and the president, a mask and the president are thinking about these questions is very much. Why can't we do IT? They aren't thinking, what can we do? They're look at government.

They look at cuts, they look at these frameworks, they look at regulation and they say, what can we do is so that's a very important lens insight as you look at these headlines because I can tell you everything i'm hearing for mario ago is, uh, they're feeling aggressive and they're gna put a they're going to try a lot. And the court, the courts on their side, they are most of congress on their side. And this insight that the president feels more confident this time than he did eight years ago, that he knows the players, that he know the government that he trust is good. I'm told that is a massive factor in all these .

conversions action. Last question, free mike. At least for me, when you see a tweet like the one we saw over the weekend from elon mosque saying that his pic would be a ltc over a scot besson, and you also know that mosque is sitting like physically next to trump, both on the airplane and at the us. He fight over the weekend.

Do you think yourself that this is quoted an authorized tweet, meaning does does must say him and to tweet this out? Or do you think or does trump s say you you should tweet this out and make IT clear that that maybe that's his open? Or do you think that he is off the reservation and this is what he just he says what he he wants to say and and then trumps is why why do eet .

that yeah ah ener, there's a third way. So uni talk all the time about palace in trigg like this is literal palin trigg, right? You have the king's court there maroo.

You have under the big chandelier in the tea room. You have, uh, just sitting there help helping a make these pegs. There's a lot of games being played here.

And who knows what was behind that tweet? That tweet have been a favor for Howard, right? Like um IT uh I wouldn't take anything coming out of mario go at the moment at face value.

Uh, there's a lot to read into IT and uh a lot that we don't know. But uh, I can tell you the big picture is the president must ask very much wine. You saw that you know the photos of them right next each other in a at the u fc five back of medicines war garden this weekend. I hope everyone has more than one of those occupied mars t shirts because is wearing the occupy mars t shirt in every single.

They have a good launching system in maroo. I think that the morale go overnight. They've overnight, that they're .

overnight the cleaning up and I couldn't think of anything. I try to figure out what that it's not really outrage because that was, you know, they were all, I came up the direct ack. I mean, I was in a dino and Frank and you know, walking in and I was, can I don't know, I IT was. I'm not saying I definitely wanted be there like hanging out or anything, but I was kind of IT reminded me of OK look is coming in here that walk up there's rogan and um you know the guy gives them the belt and a is .

crazy no and x which is now so powerful in jim benham and I are up this morning on axis with a behind the curtain column n about something mega trains from twenty twenty four, the tectonic ships that will last pass this cycle. And a massive one is x as the forum for conservative conversation. So change that e system and a on there. Tons of conversation this week. Bet the fact that a lot of the people in that rat pack picture we were talking about, yeah you, including the personality, former democrats.

The other thing that I was singing is that, I mean, republicans won't never be cool. You know what I mean, like like hollywood but they're cooler ah you know they throw kid rock and maybe and then you look at what spring steam, leo and colony and whom ever a billion and a half dollars in one hundred days and you're the first democrat to lose the public to vote in two decades given all those endorsements you .

so that is a massive conversation in the world right now. They say we have the culture and even athletes doing the trump dance right um yeah like of and uh so much of the trump stigma is gone. A story up and six years this weekend by my colleague Erica pandy, talking about how the formally secret trump voters are now out and being a truly vote, or now, not only not shameful, can actually be cool.

Oh my god. Okay uh that I just as a feeling person i'm feeling for the people that aren't they still think orange man bad and they must be I don't know they got ta leave or something. I think they feel like they have to move probably at this point.

Please don't go. Thanks, my rapt condition. Thanks for rap. Ver c .

baby pet in an airport.

you're not head IT out for good, head IT out.

But i'll be back.

You can still get the, you can get the golden ticket anymore. The golden passport. I don't.

I don't fly quite experiences, judas. But I look.

I bet you do if if you're using like M X miles to like someday hope to get to the front of the plane you're flying, like me.

see on jeep.

say fly cheese .

will be next.

Coming up on spot how A I platform perplexity aims to dominate a very crowded field. CEO and cofounder arsa IOS says IT is about narrowing focus.

There's a code of Bruce leaves. I don't hear the man who ten thousand kicks once. I hear the man who one kick ten thousand times. They have really focus on one. And our goal .

is to mpower you to be a Better investment regimes.

Teachings I was able to learn and become financially independent. And my regiment .

join the club with jim's best deal of the year at C N B C 点 com slash club， like for friday terms of restrict and supply.

This is square pot.

the washing squares out on cnbc m. Edra, along with joe kerton, Becky ick on this monday morning. Guess the news from perplexity A I this morning, the company watching an AI powered shopping assistance that should help you with consumers as holiday bargain hunting rams s were not to talk about this in the broader competition.

In A I arvin is the CEO of complexity AI. And we love having on the broadcast congratulations on on the new launch. Let's talk about that piece of IT and then let's get into the broader sort of question of where things are.

OpenAI recently releasing its own search product. How important is the shopping piece for you? Yeah.

thank you for having me again here, Andrew. So shopping is is really essential because this is one of these verticals very strongly. You conveyed that all these AI products are moving beyond just giving you answer thread.

A lot of people say, oh, which AI products are really use, they are all looking like the same. Uh, they're all giving the answer. Some some use of web, some don't.

But you need to actually enable actions. What do you do after an answer, purchase or transaction? So all these products need to get there. So shopping is the first step for us to actually get there.

And we are very happy to be the first to do that where at perplex, you now becomes a one stop solution to not just research your products on what to buy, where you can actually go and buy IT right there, natives on the APP. So you with one click by uh, which is which is a revolution in new commerce. Even twenty, twenty, thirty years ago, we are bringing into A I products.

We are giving free shipping for all people. And they can just take the take their phone and like pointed at some product that they want to buy and just ask, where can I buy this? And they can just get get IT right there.

And h, this is really powerful, so people can just compare, ask questions they could never ask before I helped build a library or help me host a disco party. What all do I need to buy? And you just get all the products right there and compare access and all the reviews are surface from so many different parts to web, and you just fulfill your transactions right there.

Well, that's what I was gonna about. What products you surface, what products you don't surface. Obviously, amazon on as a huge its own search business inside its own platform.

Can you get amazon products on IT? Are you know atos were scraping, but you when you look at reviews on on other sites and you're pulling that, is everybody allowing all of this to happen? Are some gonna lock you how are going to work?

yeah. So we are also introducing this thing called the merging program, the perplexity merging program. We are inviting merchants to work with us because we think customers consumers love this and that's always the long term correct direction.

And and so uh, if we can collaborative build this next generation shopping system for all customers, the merchants can bring their catalog to us and products expects and help in the check flow w weekend like you know, provide this experience to everybody. And we're already working with shop fy. We are enabling uh people to check out products on shop, fight to shopping and bringing bringing IT right into our search results.

I I mentioned amazon because jeff bao is is a very high profile investor in your company. Is amazon involved? And do you think that they will be .

i've I ready to talk about who's currently the program, but we are happy to work with everybody. And that include as onto .

let's switch gears for second. Just talk more broadly about the search business, if you will, and how AI relates to IT. A OpenAI recently uh, announce their own search product. How do you think about that product versus your own product versus what you're seeing now from google with some of the A I features that is added? Yeah.

like I said, all these products occurrences like very similar in the minds of the average consumer or like are giving me answers the questions, right? I think you need to go beyond that. You need to provide like real time information on vertical that matter and everyone's lives.

Sports finance, like we did the election hub and the elections were going on today. We're doing shopping. We are enabling largest information but actions transactions. So AI products need to move to a direction rarely commerce and like uh, businesses and consumers contact with each other and like everyday information is provided in a much more like entry and workflow and custom U S. So that's what we are working on, and we feel like we are ahead of, uh, everybody else in that direction. Uh, and I think that's what we need to keep doing more of more vertical travel finance, like a lot of things need to be done here.

Do you feel like you have more a way perhaps to do certain things that some of the maybe bigger companies don't? I ask because you interestingly, if you went to OpenAI and ask political questions the night of the election, as you know so well, I would send you off to other places. I did not want to answer those questions. That was a choice that they made um you made A A very different choice which was to lean in fully into the election, create entire hub around IT. Um how you how do you think about those two choices and the permission, if you will, that you may have to do something like that that maybe OpenAI doesn't feel like IT does because of its size and scale.

Well, is not about necessary to size and scale. Like for example, google also provided election results on the google search results, right? So it's about your focus. You do you really want to be a search product? You really want to like playing the search game.

I cannot do hundred things, right? Uh, there is a code of Bruce lee like, I fear the man who, uh, who I don't fear the man who ten thousand kicks once I fear the man who does one kick ten thousand times. So have to really focus on mounting and nail and they're like a lot of things to do in a company. So uh, that's exactly why are differentiation from opening incomes from opening s and A G company they focus on building uh via search company focused on building the next generation search experience for consumers.

Got a big question for I was thinking about all night last night, which is google is in middle of this major lawsuit with the department of justice, owns about ninety percent of the search business right now and there is a potential that a judge a could IT ultimately decide to break up the company to something else to IT. Um where do you stand on that case? And the competition or lack of competition in that space, I think it's .

good for american consumers if there are more alternatives and search in general. And we are very like interested and not just like in trying to build the same product as google and trying to compete for market check on tables things, but provide new experiences to people. And um uh you know we are doing our part like regardless of what the D O G rules are you doing our part to like keep pushing the boundaries of what search can be, right? Search can be, answer search can be and shopping can be refined. So that will be thinking about IT do .

do you think about the search business then differently now, meaning IT used to be in the blue link economy as that you've described IT, that is one type of search. But now that we are living with A I and what you're and what open a eyes is doing and what anthropos doing and and what others are doing, amazon with its own search.

And do you say yourself that the ecosystem is that much larger? And therefore, when people use the ninety percent market chair that google has, you say that's just a small slicer research? Or do you say that really is the business this goes to market size in a way?

Yeah, I believe us. I I would in fact say it's a different market um from in the sense that the media search query on google is like to the three words the medium search like like square for plexi ties around nine, ten, seven words. So people are actually able to ask very detailed questions.

Much higher tent western year and that was not something they were able to do on google before. So in some sense, that is a new market, that's a new consumer trend is on the rise. On the other hand, the behavior of people to go and type and amazon, instagram, red tiktok, youtube, just like this one, one word navigational queries on google, the sort of saturated, pretty much everybody on the planet knows how to do that. And they do that on a daily basis read so you're not competing for those very is essentially .

went um this is a fascine conversation. I hope you come on back. We can continue IT really appreciate IT and I I don't have to admit I am a complexion user time so thanks.

Next on squad pod, a settlement in sports broadcasting rights that may keep some beloved N, B, A, T, V properties on the .

air is alright .

at the end .

of the two can only hope .

we'll be right back experience the power of C, N B C prose best deal of the year. Track your portfolio from every angle on one, optimize.

You are listening to school pod from cnbc here. Joern standby .

joe is mike kill.

Warner brother's discovery has settled its breach of contract losses against the N. B, A that, according to bolter erna report, back to nine dollars that as a deal expected to be announced early as this week, Warner brothers will lose its rights to regular and place and games for T, N, T, the network after this season, but the settlement will give IT rights to a significant amount of NBA content, domestic, cally and abroad.

And separately, warn brother's discovery struck a deal with this, need a license, the T N T show inside the N B A two E S P N N A B C starting next season. And the show features Charles barkley and chick O O IO. This an .

interesting ander and I were just talking about, this is an interesting twist that they licensed IT out. Charles barkley has been so outspoken about all of this when they first announced that they may lose the deal, he was lying. I guess we're not going of jobs anymore.

What are going to do? virus. They start being more, more outspoken along the way. Entirely sure how that works, but it's an .

interest I assume covers the production costs. They are the producer of IT, so they're going makes some money maybe doing IT or at least least come out flat. yeah.

And then the question in the bigger question, me was actually like the bleacher report piece of this, which is that they get to use the content for the next what is IT ten years? Is that what IT is? So I think it's ten years as something that and so if that's the case, even though you're not getting the games, they have a huge digital business. And if you were effectively blocked from using the rights or didn't have any rights to cut thirty second, six, sixty and clips, that business would disappear, right? So that actually has real value to them, at least for some .

period of time.

The discovery IT started.

all I can, I think IT was six sixty back, just under ten. Some progress being made. What was that? You remember IT became IT wasn't like a mean.

IT was almost the means. No one to up to fifty two, fifty three thousand of years ago. I was back in two thousand.

I can't remember why something happened in IT in last long. Just try to remember. I I need to remember things like that. But we do remembered for a lot of the time in the twenty years, I got away down a six, which is sort of A I mean, it's almost a media proxy for how difficult to business that the W B. D is in, in a lot of media, legacy media in that seem boat with a lot of same pressures.

But there IT is twenty .

one is right .

at the end of the turn there's the extended.

You can only hope what was you .

don't member either.

But I can read IT up.

I went back to, look, joe, I can. This was too long ago.

Archie s. articles.

That squad pod for today this monday. Thank you for starting your week off with us. Squad box is hosted by joe carne bakker k and Andrew ross sorkin in weekday mornings on C, N, B, C at six etern get the smartest takes and analysis from R, T, V show right into your ears when you follow squad pod. Whatever you get, your podcast will make you right back here tomorrow.

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Squat box tomorrow lifestyle icon Martha Stuart, a wide ranging interview about one hundred with book and business empire, was robo ck CEO on the company's latest safety controls stay ahead of the market school box tomorrow six and seven and C, N, B, C.