He Said, He Said: The China-U.S. Trade Talks 4/25/25
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The U.S. and China are competing for global leadership. The country who wins will define the world we live in. U.S. international assistance is vital to our national security. It helps prevent terrorism and avoid costly wars. It fights diseases and saves lives. It helps keep America as the number one economy in the world.

U.S. international assistance protects our interests at home and abroad. If America doesn't lead, China will.

And now, a next-level moment from AT&T business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows, and they need to be there in time for International Sleep Day. You've got AT&T 5G, so you're fully confident. But the vendor isn't responding, and International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. AT&T 5G requires a compatible plan and device. Coverage not available everywhere. Learn more at att.com slash 5G network.

Bring in show music, please. Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, are the U.S. and China in trade talks or not?

It's a he said, he said between the Trump administration and the CCP. An interview with President Trump in Time magazine now at odds with comments from the Chinese embassy. Who's saving face? And what's really happening in the U.S.-China trade war? Axios White House reporter Mark Caputo on the confusion. I don't trust our government. I've never really trusted our leaders, but I trust other governments even less. So who's telling the truth here is anyone's guess. Yeah.

And Nick Burns, former U.S. ambassador to China under President Biden, tells us what's at stake. Strategically, what both countries have to figure out, particularly the United States, is do we want to see a decoupling? Plus, an atlas full of trade talks and the impact on American businesses. And Apple is planning to move America's entire supply of iPhones to India. It doesn't necessarily get the phones to be manufactured back in the U.S.,

It's been a week. Tuesday, that was like a year ago. It feels like a year ago. But we are finally at Friday, April 25th. Squawk Pod begins right now. Stand back your body in three, two, one. Cue, please.

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We are live from the Nasdaq market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick, along with Andrew Ross Sorkin. Joe is off today. And I think we can all breathe a little bit of a sigh of relief here. TGIF, we made it to Friday. It seems like the weeks are getting longer, especially if you're watching the volatility in the stock market.

Yesterday, volatility was down if you were watching the VIX a little bit closely there. Stocks were higher. This is something to watch. A morning where we're not coming in with hundreds of points either up or down on the S&P 500 or the Dow or the Nasdaq, any of these futures.

So maybe we're getting a little bit of a breather here. I don't know if I'd hold that thought for too long today, but we'll see. The Nasdaq is up more than 5% as we head into the final trading session of the week. Take a look at what you're seeing here. The S&P is up by about close to 4%, and then the Dow up by close to 2.5%. Meantime, this is pretty interesting. Apple now planning on moving the assembly of all 60 million plus iPhones that are sold annually in the U.S.,

to India potentially by the end of next year that's when the Financial Times they're reporting that in order to do this app would have to double the number of iPhones are currently assembles in India now the Trump administration announced lower tariffs on India then on China earlier this month an apple has been ramping up capacity in India but it still symbols most up its phones in China doesn't necessarily get the phones to be manufactured back in the US but nonetheless um

There's also questions, even over the last 24 hours, as to whether we, the U.S., are going to get a deal first with India. That's the other thing that seems to be in the water. South Korea is another country that negotiations, at least if you're listening to news reports, the treasurer's secretary has indicated that could come sooner rather than later as well. And all kind of circling. Although when you hear about trade talks with China, there's still a lot of questions if those are even taking place because the two sides don't seem to agree on even.

But it does seem that all of this action is moving companies to at least think about stuff. I mean, the fact that Apple, I don't know if we think Apple's actually doing this or we think Apple's just contemplating this or mapping it out. My guess is they would probably try to do it sooner rather than later. They have made a big move since COVID to try and diversify their supply chains, too. So we'll see where things land with this. What I've always wondered about Apple as it relates to China and manufacturing is,

they still have a big market share in China itself. Right. And they're not talking about moving that production. Right. But I've always wondered if, in fact, they really do start to move. I mean, if they move all of the U.S. phones that were going to go to the U.S. to a place like India, does that change the dynamic at all inside China, meaning the popularity of the company

Well, their sales in China have been down. Right. But does it go even farther down? What does that do to the whole? Yeah, it's a delicate dance. Yeah, it is. Let's talk a little bit about the latest developments on the trade front. China today denying that it is having any tariff negotiations with the United States. China also making statements to that effect yesterday. But then in the early afternoon, President Trump told reporters that the U.S. has been meeting with China.

Well, they had a meeting this morning, so I can't tell you. It doesn't matter who they is. We may reveal it later, but they had meetings this morning, and we've been meeting with China.

Separately, Bloomberg is reporting that China is considering suspending its heavy import tariffs on some U.S. goods, including medical equipment, plane leases and some industrial chemicals. Other sources said that Chinese companies in key sectors have been asked to submit customs codes to authorities of the goods that they would like to see escape tariffs.

On the potential deal front, Treasury Secretary Scott Besson saying that the U.S. and South Korea had a successful meeting on trade. A deal will reportedly be pursued by early July. Of course, July is when the 90-day mark comes up, so they're trying to get this trade deal done before the holdoff on those additional tariffs imposed by President Trump would actually kick back into effect. And speaking with reporters, President Trump also expects confidence at reaching a deal with Norway.

This is the big news in tech land. It's having an impact on shares of a whole bunch of companies in tech land. Shares of Google parent Alphabet, they are higher in the pre-market. This after the company beat earnings and revenue estimates for the first quarter. Now, overall revenue grew by 12% year over year. That was also ahead of expectations. But I think what's got people excited this morning is two things. Alphabet saying it's going to buy back $70 billion of its stock.

raised its dividend by 5%. And then in a very reassuring move for investors, the company affirming its AI build-out plans and said it was still on track for $75 billion in CapEx spending this year. Let's show you what CEO Sandar Pichai had to say on the earnings call. In surge, we saw continued double-digit revenue growth.

AI Overviews is going very well with over 1.5 billion users per month, and we are excited by the early positive reaction to AI mode. There's a lot more to come ahead.

Another highlight for Alphabet, it said that Waymo, the autonomous driving unit that it has now, is providing more than 250,000 paid passenger rides per week. That is five times, five times as many as this time a year ago. And I remember talking to Sundar back in last November, and we talked about, you know, could Waymo become an independent company? What did he say?

He said everything's open. So I think long term it's possible. Waymo could become a massive business. And if it becomes a massive business, you could see that become its own business.

One of the things that was so good about their ad revenue was that the margins weren't hurt. They've been layering on this AI and there were a lot of people who thought maybe margins would come down as a result of that. That wasn't the case. That's a very positive sign, too. Hugely positive. Because here we were talking to the CEO of Perplexity yesterday. We were talking about market share and what's going on. And the other idea that they're going to continue spending just also suggests not just their own confidence, but also means that

NVIDIA's and the entire sort of ecosystem is going to continue at least a pace for now.

Paramount Global and the FCC, they're in talks now to secure regulatory approval for that merger with Skydance Media. It's according to The Wall Street Journal. They're reporting that one discussion involves a commitment that the company would continue to abstain from certain diversity initiatives. Now, the FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, he's urged the media companies to limit their DEI policies as a precondition for the agency to consider M&A. Of course, the other big problem.

is this ongoing lawsuit between the president and 60 Minutes. We will see where that goes. It's supposed to go into mitigation. Bill Owens being asked to step aside at 60 Minutes and the repercussions that have gone through the organization as a result. Bill Owens, who ran 60 Minutes. For decades. Who is an amazing journalist. I've known him for a very long time. I don't know if he was asked to. I think he actually...

pulled the plug himself. Well, no, he said in a meeting that he was asked to step aside. To step aside. Yeah, he said in a meeting with all of the producers and co-founders. Oh, I didn't realize that he had, I thought that he had sort of done it as a protest. No, he was asked to step aside, but he said, he told the journalists at 60 Minutes in that meeting to stay with it and to stay on. He thought it would be a turning point for the company. We'll see. We'll see.

Yahoo and its owner Apollo Global would bid for the Chrome web browser if a court forces Google to divest it. That's according to testimony from a senior executive at Yahoo Search at Google's antitrust trial yesterday. Last year, a judge ruled that Google illegally monopolized the search market. The court is considering a package of changes proposed by antitrust enforcers as a remedy.

including the sale of Chrome. Earlier this week, the head of ChatGPT said that OpenAI would also be interested in buying Chrome. But Andrew, you mentioned Perplexity, a CEO who was here yesterday. He said they don't want that Chrome to be sold because right now Chrome is the part that actually operates very well and allows all kinds of competitors like Perplexity to participate. I think he's concerned if it gets sold that it would not be as open.

Well, that's the question. Would it be an open platform? I don't know. And it would be interesting to know whether all of these companies that would bid for it, whether they would have to somehow say they would keep it open. And whether if you say you're keeping it open, that means you're really keeping it open and you're doing something else. Right. By the way...

I was late rushing in here today. Oh, we were all late. For a good reason. We were all late. Andrew was helping me out by kind of dragging things out at the top. It was for a good reason because Andrew was inducted into the Cable Hall of Fame last night. And we all got to go. We all stayed up too late. We all stayed up too late to party and to watch it. Past our bedtime. Past our bedtime.

Well, thank you. Thank you for coming. It was a very well-deserved award. And I'm very glad that I got to see it last night. And hugely, huge thanks to you and to Joe and to the whole squat crew and the whole CNBC crew for giving me this opportunity all these years. Well, it is, it is been amazing to watch what you have accomplished. We've been sitting together for just over 14 years and it has been amazing to see what you've accomplished, not just here, but in the broader world of what you've pulled together between deal book,

and the cable world, but also the amazing programs you've pulled off with Billions and Too Big to Fail. - Thank you. Thank you. - Cheese will be next. - Coming up next on Squawk Pod, a report that President Trump has spoken to President Xi, but...

No confirmation from China. Axios' Mark Caputo is well-sourced and unconvinced. Now, is this the P.T. Barnum showman of him? Is he in denial? Or is he genuinely serious? That's one of those eternal questions with Donald Trump that, again, I can't answer. Whatever's real, one thing's for sure. Donald Trump has been aiming to make a deal for nearly 40 years. 1987 is the first time he gave a political speech in New Hampshire, talking about other countries ripping us off and needing to have better trade deals.

We'll be right back. The U.S. and China are competing for global leadership. The country who wins will define the world we live in. U.S. international assistance is vital to our national security. It helps prevent terrorism and avoid costly wars. It fights diseases and saves lives. It helps keep America as the number one economy in the world.

U.S. international assistance protects our interests at home and abroad. If America doesn't lead, China will.

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information-packed daily market preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com slash market update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

And now, a next-level moment from AT&T business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows, and they need to be there in time for International Sleep Day. You've got AT&T 5G, so you're fully confident. But the vendor isn't responding, and International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. AT&T 5G requires a compatible plan and device. Coverage not available everywhere. Learn more at att.com slash 5G network.

Welcome back. This is Squawk Pod from CNBC. Up and Andrew, cue.

I'm Andrew Osorkin. Becky Quick. Joe is off today on this Friday morning. Got a lot of news, though, to tell you about. In an interview published this hour, President Trump telling Time magazine that he is still convinced tariffs are necessary. He said, quote, the bond market was getting the yips, but I wasn't. And he said he would consider it a, quote, total victory if the U.S. still has tariffs as high as 50 percent on foreign imports a year from now.

Now on China, President Trump says that President Xi has called him and that his administration is in active talks with Beijing to strike a deal. He said he expects to have a full slate of deals announced over the next three to four weeks. So he's now put a timeline on it. He says that he's in talks with China genuinely.

But he also said that he wants tariffs and he would be fine, more than fine, with more than 50%. I would imagine, I don't know when this interview was conducted, but if this was yesterday, I mean, if we're in real time,

I would think that would scare you. I mean, I would think it would scare the market. That's concerning because I would say most market participants you talk to say that they would understand 10% tariffs and be able to manage around that. Higher tariffs, particularly 50% higher, would be a really big deal. And I've been doing some reporting around the conversations that the big retailers have had with the president earlier this week trying to figure out

their concerns and what they're raising to the president on it. Look, one of the issues is if you keep the tariffs as is at 145 percent on China, that's going to be very serious things for a family that has a baby. You're required by law to go buy a baby seat, a car seat. Right now, that costs three hundred and fifty dollars in a few months. If that's still 145 percent tariffs, that's going to cost seven hundred and twenty dollars.

So that's a big price pain point for families that are trying to get by with this. If you look at bananas, we import almost all of them from Costa Rica. Avocados, we've mentioned in the past, coffee. It just starts to layer on and on. And the total cost for the basket, particularly for Americans who might be living paycheck to paycheck, is going to be something they really sit up and take notice to. Now, we have seen lower inflation numbers that have come in, but those are backward looking. And from what I'm hearing,

in the not too distant future, in the very near immediate future, you could see big pickups in the inflation numbers just based on the tariffs as they stand today. Now, we've wound that down and we're giving that 90-day grace period, but those tariffs could start to hurt very quickly in a matter of months.

One note, because we were just discussing the timing of this interview. So, published just now in real time. However, the interview took place on Tuesday. Oh, man, that's complete. Like, Tuesday. That was like a year ago. It feels like a year ago. Now, if you go back and try to rewind... Tuesday was when he was taking down his tone on some of this. Right. Because it came after Monday's meeting at the White House. Well, so what's interesting is that he took down his tone on Truth Social, I believe, on late Tuesday. Scott Besson was also trying to take...

Did this interview happen before or after? And time needs to tell us because. Hard to know. So we're going to we're going to try to get to the bottom of that. But there's the news. And the question is whether the market should take too much away from it, given the timing of when it took place and just how much of a roller coaster. Why would they spend three days before they put that out?

OK, I don't know. The president tells you something. You better publish it. Better publish it immediately. Our next guest here with his own insights into the drama inside the White House on tariffs and trade and so much more. Axios Trump, White House reporter Mark Caputo. You can weigh in on this. You know, you were there Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Here we are on Friday. So think about where President Trump was on Tuesday compared to where you think he is. He is mentally about all this right now.

I think mentally he's been in the same place the entire time. And one of the problems that we spend is that we don't understand that when you look at what Donald Trump wants to do with tariffs, he's been talking about stuff like this for 38 years. And that's at least 38 years. 1987 is the first time he gave a political speech in New Hampshire talking about other countries ripping us off and needing to have better trade deals.

So look at him directionally, or as some people like to say in the past from 2016, take him figuratively, not literally in some cases. So directionally, this is where he wants to go. But when it comes to the specifics and the details, the devil is a sort of in them. And so is the noise. The signal is tariffs. The signal is better trade deals.

But the noise is all of these specifics on the percentages. I mean, eventually we're going to probably wind up with some sort of tariff when all of this is done. But when Trump says something like, you know, I don't care if it's 50 percent, you know, that's sort of the guy in the barstool conversation.

quality of donald trump i'm not saying he wouldn't do it because the guy in the barstool could ultimately get in a fight or do something kind of crazy but generally speaking he does have a circle of advisors around him and they are trying to channel this energy into a more productive outcome okay speak to this though and tell me what you speak to this and tell me what you actually know according to this time piece trump is suggesting that he's in touch with president shi

Since that interview, the Chinese government has said we've had no talks and they've now said that pretty vehemently. So what's really going on here? Oh, I have absolutely no clue. I don't trust our government. I've never really trusted our leaders, but I trust other governments even less. So who's telling the truth here is anyone's guess. But again, what I would default to here is that Donald Trump wants some sort of tariffs and he wants some sort of deal. And until then, it's his world and we're living in it.

Okay, but let me ask you a different question. In terms of, and we've discussed this many times, negotiating leverage, where do you think the leverage really exists? We also were reporting this morning that Apple, considering moving its...

Apple phone manufacturing, at least for those phones being manufactured for import into the U.S., might be able to move to China within a year or at least about a year and a half from now. That would, I would imagine, actually provide more leverage in some ways to the U.S. in its negotiations with China.

I can tell you this is the mood and the attitude of the White House and of Donald Trump, according to those with whom I've spoken, who have spoken to him, is that they still believe that they have a measure of leverage. They believe that China's economy still heavily relies on the United States. And.

When people have talked to Donald Trump, they have told me that they're struck by the disconnect or the difference in the news coverage and the coverage of the stock market, the numbers, the falling dollar, the falling number of tourists, the falling number of people who believe that the economy is getting better, and the attitude of Donald Trump, which they say is rather buoyant. They say he's having a good time. And when you talk to him, he's like,

You can't believe this. This is great. Japan's coming in for a deal. South Korea is coming in for a deal. Vietnam is going to do a deal. It's going to be great. Now, is this the P.T. Barnum showman of him? Is he in denial or is he genuinely serious? That's one of those eternal questions with Donald Trump that, again, I can't answer. What I could say is his team still believes that this can get done and it's going to be good.

Whether they're right or not, we're going to see. Let me ask you a different question. It's a negotiating question. There's a great phrase called favored nation status. Corporations use it all the time, but it actually represents a favored nation status as in countries. To the extent that certain deals are made, maybe Japan or India comes in with one of the early deals. South Korea comes in with an early deal.

it almost will set a benchmark in certain ways. And the question is whether other countries therefore then have more leverage or less leverage going forward. How do you see that? I could see, I think it's easier for me to answer what I see as being the likeliest deals to come in first. And those are the ones you mentioned, Japan especially. Scott Besson, the Treasury Secretary, really loves Japan. He wanted to be ambassador to Japan if he wasn't going to be Treasury Secretary, according to people with whom I've spoken who were familiar with the transition.

And he has said, whoever comes in first gets the best deal. Now, obviously, these deals, these trade negotiations depend on nation to nation. Japan has various barriers to trade. But according to people who also represent Japan, at least one or two lobbyists with whom I've spoken, they say that they believe that things are going pretty well and they wouldn't be surprised if something is announced soon.

Now, there are, again, those high barriers to trade in Japan itself. So how that sort of moves along isn't clear. The other issue is South Korea. We've had essentially no tariffs on them anyway. So it's probably going to be easy to negotiate a deal there as well.

In addition to the trade aspect of this and the tariff aspect of this, there is a global security aspect to it as well. And this is part of the mixed messaging sort of, so to speak, that you've heard out of the White House, which is not only does Trump want better negotiations, better deals, more money to come to the U.S. Treasury from tariffs, but he also wants to isolate China. So just as there's a most favored nation status that you're discussing, there's sort of a least favored nation status in Trump's mind, and that's China.

He wants to isolate China as best he can. Mark, I want to thank you for joining us this morning. Appreciate it. Thank you. Up next on Squawk Pod, are the U.S. and China really ready to break up? A decoupling? More on the trade talks with former U.S. ambassador to China, Nick Burns. Neither economy and really neither government can sustain a trade war like this at this volume and this depth of seriousness for several months.

The U.S. and China are competing for global leadership. The country who wins will define the world we live in. U.S. international assistance is vital to our national security. It helps prevent terrorism and avoid costly wars. It fights diseases and saves lives. It helps keep America as the number one economy in the world. U.S. international assistance protects our interests at home and abroad. If America doesn't lead, China will.

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information-packed daily market preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com slash market update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

You're listening to Squawk Pod. Here's Becky Quick. Our next guest has been on the front lines of managing the U.S.-China relationship. And joining us right now is Nicholas Burns. He served as U.S. ambassador to China in the Biden administration and has served six presidents, both Republican and Democrat, in his decades-long foreign service career.

He's now a professor at Harvard's Belfer Center. And Ambassador, thank you very much for being with us this morning. Thank you. What do you think is happening? Read between the lines for us here on the conflicts as to whether or not there are negotiations that are taking place.

You know, I think that both governments are trying to figure out how do we climb down from triple digit tariff, the triple digit tariff battle that they're in. I think that neither economy and really neither government can sustain a trade war like this at this volume and this depth of seriousness for several months. So I would anticipate

that both sides would want to reach out to each other, probably quietly, and begin the process of trying to define, is there a trade deal in the future? And I think the logic for each of them and self-interest from each of them will push them towards that. But the problem is going to be how to negotiate this, how to do it effectively, because I think it will take some time.

We just heard from this Time interview with the president that was released just in the last hour and a half or so that he would like to see, the president would like to see tariffs as high as 50 percent a year from now, that he could see that being out there. This was an interview that was done on Tuesday, and the messaging coming out of the White House can change pretty rapidly.

When you get your arms around it, the idea of a 50% tariff, is that sustainable for the two countries versus the 145% today?

It would be enormously harmful to both economies if that's going to be the level going forward for the next couple of years. China is our third largest trade partner. Our trade volume was $642 billion last year in goods and services. For China, we're the largest export market. And so 50% to 60% tariffs would have a significant cut in the trade balance between the two countries.

There are upwards of 20 to 25 million Chinese workers who depend on making things, manufacturing to trade with the United States. There are about a million Americans whose jobs depend on trade with China. So those levels and those were the levels that candidate Trump talked about in the 2024 election, 50 to 60 percent, I think would be highly destructive to this relationship. And strategically, what both countries have to figure out, particularly the United States, is

Do we want to see a decoupling of these two economies? In my view, that would be highly disadvantageous for both of us, for the United States especially, but also for the global economy. So, no, I don't think that's a logical landing point for these upcoming negotiations. Ambassador, here's the question, though. It's a leverage question and it's a timing question. Clearly, we are the biggest economy in the world.

I would imagine hopefully over on a long-term basis, you would think that we would have leverage. We would have, there would be a good reason for folks to ultimately invest in us and to make a deal with us. Having said that,

The short-term pressures that we're facing, the way the market works, the way our democracy works, the way voting works, puts an enormous pressure on us in certain ways to make a deal or not make a deal. Maybe you don't think so. I don't know. How do you see those pressures and how much patience can we have versus how much patience can the Chinese have?

Well, Andrew, I think your calculation is correct. I mean, there are short-term pressures on President Trump and the United States, as there were on President Biden when he was in office. There are market pressures and political pressures here in the U.S. and our open democratic society that obviously are not impinging upon the strategy of Xi Jinping. But having said that,

Xi Jinping, I think, needs a deal with the United States. His economy is slowing down. A lot of people don't think they grew by 5% GDP growth last year. It was more like 3.5 or 3.7.

They have a significant problem with foreign direct investment. It was down by 32% last year. The property crisis bubble is still affecting the economy. So I think that the pressure works the other way as well. Xi Jinping needs a deal to stabilize the economy. They don't want to have a prolonged tariff war with the United States. And so that gives me a little bit of encouragement that

to think that both sides, logic would say, need negotiations and need some kind of a deal, not at 50% or 60% tariffs, but somewhat lower in the future. And I'd also like to say, you know, China has been portraying itself in the last few weeks as the responsible party here.

But China is not a victim. China's been the major disruptor in the international trade system for well over two decades now. And that's why President Biden raised tariffs on EVs 100 percent last year, 11 months ago, on semiconductors, on lithium batteries. And it's understandable that the Trump administration wants to have a hard-edged policy here to try to make sure that the Chinese don't take advantage of us.

Is this a trade war that you think we should be fighting specifically and only with China?

I think the better strategy for the United States would have been not launch a tariff war against Japan and South Korea and the European Union. All those countries have essentially the same interests that we do. We're trying to protect ourselves from unfair Chinese trading practices. And had we started with those countries on our side, that's about 60% of global GDP. That would have given us enormous leverage. And right now, we don't have that particular leverage.

because we're fighting a tariff war with our closest allies. So I think that was a tactical mistake a couple of weeks ago. I'm sorry, you said Japan, South Korea, what was the third country? The European Union. Oh, and the EU. So is there a chance...

for a mulligan of sorts with this. Is there a chance to say, "Okay, we're going to do quick trade deals with Japan, South Korea, see who else we can work out, Canada, Mexico, and then turn around and focus on China very specifically after these new deals that President Trump can say he's gotten?"

I would hope there is that opportunity. I was encouraged that the Treasury Secretary Scott Besant said exactly that about 10 days ago, that they wanted to work now speedily with the Japanese, the South Koreans, and I hope with the EU to try to have early trade agreements with them if that's possible.

to bring them over to our side you know the Chinese I think I don't understand how much their dumping a manufactured products has unsettled global markets one of the things the EU is concerned about now is if China shut out of the US market China mice try to flood the EU market

with lower-priced goods, dumping goods. They're producing two and a half times the Chinese domestic demand in EVs and solar panels and lithium batteries and steel and robotics. So I think actually the United States would have a lot of leverage if we could bring those allies to our side

to uh to compete with the chinese in a very strong way at these negotiations well it sounds like there's it's a lose-lose situation for china if they've been dumping this much on the the market two and a half times in all of those sectors from what they can possibly produce in order for them to reach an agreement with us and potentially our trading allies on this they're going to have to cut production and that means more job loss in china is this a lose-lose no matter what happens for china

Well, I think this is the pressure point on the Chinese. You know, just in the last year, a lot of different countries have raised tariffs on China. India, South Africa, Brazil, Colombia, Peru, Canada, Mexico, the United States, the EU.

The world is saying to the Chinese, if you think you can grow by ramping up your manufactured exports and selling them at lower prices to the rest of the world, it's not going to happen. The Trump administration should be taking advantage of this by bringing some of these other countries to our side. But you can't do that if you've launched tariff wars against our natural allies. And I think that is something that can be corrected with a lot of hard work and quick work, but it's necessary.

Ambassador Burns, thank you for joining us this morning. Great pleasure. Thank you.

meanwhile we got some new headlines to bring you right now on china possibly in response to president trump's comment to time magazine that the u.s and china have held trade discussions china's embassy just said they are not having any talks on tariffs and that the u.s should stop creating confusion now just a bit of a reminder this time magazine piece came out literally at 6 00 a.m this morning it was an interview with president trump that interview though

took place apparently on Tuesday. So here we are on Friday. It's been a roller coaster of a week and so many different things have been said both by the president and his treasury secretary, Scott Besson and others. But the one thing that has been consistent thus far is that China at least publicly has said that there have been no talks whatsoever. And of course there's also the IMF meetings where China is in Washington now. So if there were a possibility of such meetings, you'd think they'd be happening.

Doesn't seem to be the case unless there's something else. I wonder if there's some other theater going on. Yeah, I wonder if there are low level talks that are taking place, because I think the Chinese minister and ministry in the past has emphasized there are no high level talks taking place. But this idea that Trump is saying publicly that she called the president president, she called him. Right.

suggest that they would be talking. And here you have the Chinese saying that's not the case. Now, they didn't specifically say that President Xi didn't call them. But what this all means, I think, is still a jump ball. Maybe it's talked versus talking. Lots of ways to cut through that. But obviously, the markets are listening to everything that's been said since that Time magazine piece came out this morning. We had been looking at futures that were flat down to 162 now. Immediately after it came out, they were out by about 250 points. So we'll see.

That is SquawkPod for today and for the week. Happy weekend ahead. SquawkBox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Please follow SquawkPod wherever you get your podcasts. We'll meet you right back here on Monday. Have a great weekend. Clear. Thanks, guys.

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