Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent & CC Sabathia 4/28/25
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Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant on negotiating tariff policy. The negotiations with our Asian trading partners are going very well. How's it going with one country in particular, China, which is facing levies from the U.S. of nearly 150 percent? It's up to China to de-escalate because they sell five times more to us than we sell to them.

And America's pastime getting fresh attention, baseball great CeCe Sabathia joins us. The game is in such a good spot. With boardroom investor Rich Kleiman on new partnerships and opportunities on the diamond. Ratings are up, attendance is up, merchandise sales are up. The league has never appeared to be as global as they are now.

Plus, what's on your pizza, what's in your house, and what animal spirits will drive the market this week? There was some negativity yesterday, and I'm curious how people react this morning. The negativity is causing that four-point loss on the Dow. It is Monday, April 28th. Squawk Pod begins right now. Stand back, you buy in three, two, one, cue, please.

good morning everybody and welcome to squawk box right here on cnbc we're live from the nasdaq market site in times square i'm becky quick along with joe kernan and andrew ross sorkin uh here we go on a monday morning and uh maybe you breathe a sigh of relief with this the major averages all coming off their second positive week out of the last three the s p was up by 4.6 percent last week the nasdaq was up by close to seven percent

If you take a look at what was happening with the Dow, it was only up by about 2.5%. But check out the Treasury yields. We are seeing yields come down a little bit, at least for that 10-year. It's down to 426. The 2-year is just below 3.8%. It's at 376. That day where we were down over 1,000 last night, my mind is mush, but that was Monday, I think. And we didn't close down 1,000. That was the day the S&P was down 1%.

around all the way down to about 5,100. And Tuesday was the day that President Trump changed his tone. Right. But the previous week, we didn't trade on Friday because that was Good Friday. So the close on the 17th. Thursday. On Thursday was where it was almost 5,300. So that's why 5,300 to 5,500 is only 4%. But if you went to... 4.6%.

4.6. But if you went to the low of 5,100 or 51 on Monday, it got all the way back to 55, 25. So that's. Well, I think. And the Nasdaq was strong. What was the Nasdaq up to? The Nasdaq was up last week. It was like 7%. It was 6.73. Almost 7%. And we will take it. But largely on the back of reporting or I don't want to say reporting statements made by the president.

That he was in a deal talking to, by the way, the Chinese and had all these other deals. I think it's kind of interesting. We'll talk to Scott Besson about it right now. Because so many of these comments now seem to suggest that something is...

What do you mean? Well, the left in this country would much rather believe Xi than Trump. If someone's lying, they're going to say Trump's lying. So I understand that. But we can actually get it from the horse's mouth today and find out. I don't know why they would take China's side, really. But we'll see. Hopefully you saw that China is exempting a lot of things that they absolutely need. Yeah.

As we are. Which shows you how important it is, probably, that we do have some type of relationship. We can't decouple. Well, Scott Dixon said yesterday that... Well, let's not say what he said yesterday. Let's say what he said yesterday. All right, but we'll ask him today. Just the idea that these tariffs at 150%, that's unsustainable on both sides. So there will be changes that we're seeing. We're going to drill down on what he said and get the real news today from Scott Dixon at 8 o'clock.

He didn't say anything on ABC. Well, no, but I think I'd be curious whether you think that the markets and the futures this morning are related to that at all. What's that? I'd be curious to know what nothing going on in the market. I know. But whether you think that that there was some negativity yesterday. And I'm curious how people react this morning to what negativity is causing that the four point loss on the Dow.

Maybe we can come back from that. We'll try. Big piece of, Warsh has got a big piece. Everything's summarized in the journal. It is. Warsh spoke on Friday to the IMF. And it was picked up by a lot of news organizations over the week. This is former Federal Reserve Governor Kevin Warsh leveling some pretty sharp criticism at the central bank, though.

Warsh is seen as a frontrunner to replace the current Fed chair, Jay Powell. He was speaking at a conference on the sidelines of the IMF and the World Bank annual meetings in Washington on Friday. Warsh slammed the Fed's recent policy record and called for what he is calling a strategic reset. Among the critiques, he said that the Fed's $6.7 trillion balance sheet was evidence of policy overreach.

He said that overreach has made it easier for Congress to spend money knowing that the central bank would subsidize the costs. He criticized Fed officials for over communicating their views and economic targets and relying too much on what he sees as flawed economic indicators.

And he criticized the Fed for weighing in on politically charged issues like DEI and climate change, said that was overreach in a big way. Now, Kevin Warsh was on the Federal Reserve back in 2008, 2009, and he said some of the things that he did, he was absolutely on board. QE the first time around. He said he broke with the Fed after QE2, and that's when he resigned and stepped aside.

he pointed out that said paul vocal or after that weekend and have some of the things that they did said the fed has gone to the very edge of its lawful implied power transcending certain long embedded central bank principles and practices he called that the equivalent of of a brush back pitch high and tight from an institutional ally to his successors and says that they really should be looking at this now i think it's interesting from the perspective of uh... kevin worse kind of

showing some of his conservative credentials. It sounds very hawkish. It sounds very hawkish, though. If the president is looking for someone to cut rates, I don't know that Kevin Warsh will be the one. Well, except we did have this idea that if you would have the credibility to cut rates, if you were seen as a hawk, and then you started to cut the rates,

and people might think so there could be I'm I I'm not just this skeptical version said maybe this is all part of that I think is bigger problem is with the feds balance sheet that is never tightened up after they never they never withdrew any of and they never do there's a word for that when there's a crisis in crisis in government does something

They never stop. They never pull back on the measures that they took to or it's very, very difficult to pull back. I thought it was fascinating that and I didn't really realize it, that the Fed's full employment mandate. It was a secondary mandate. Well, that should be. But but.

They got swept up in the DEI ESG, and it was a full employment mandate, not just overall employment, but for certain groups. And now they don't say that anymore. They're also sort of backing off. But he pointed that out. I didn't know that the Fed and the climate change stuff, why the Fed would be...

Well, that is beyond me. But my takeaway was how hawkish he's always been. We knew that. He always has been. We knew that. But I guess if you focus on the balance sheet, that's a slightly different issue than the president is focused on with just the overall rate structure. But he said it was what did he say? It was a factor of 10. It grew from when he was there. Yeah. The size of the balance sheet was you don't measure it in terms of you actually need to

exponential growth instead of additive. All right, a big shift coming right in the heart of this spring housing market, something we haven't seen in quite a while. Diana Olick joins us right now with more. And what's the shift that we're seeing right now, Diana?

Well, Becky, it's prices. They are still gaining slightly, but they are slowing down quickly. And in several major markets, they are now lower compared with a year ago. Take a look at these numbers from Parcel Labs, which runs real-time price data. Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, San Francisco, Nashville, and Minneapolis are now negative year over year in prices,

And Austin, a major pandemic migration market, is tanking. Other large markets like Phoenix and Denver, they're right on the verge of being in the red. Now, another report from Redfin showed home sellers gave concessions to buyers in 44% of sales transactions in Q1 of this year. That's up from 39% a year earlier and just shy of the 45% record high at the start of 2023. Those include money toward repairs,

closing costs and or mortgage rate buy downs, but not price cuts. Now, something else in the March numbers, the median price of a newly built home was slightly lower than that of an existing home. And there is usually a price premium for new construction. So that's not normal. Part of this is builders lowering prices and offering more low priced homes and still a relatively tight and overpriced existing home market.

Now, remember, home prices are up over 50% in just the last five years, which again is something else, not exactly normal. So even with builders cutting prices and more supply coming on the existing home markets, buyers have hit the pause button right at the height of the all-important spring market. Becky? Why do you think buyers are pausing? Does it have anything to do with mortgage rates or is it more related to uncertainty and concern about what might be happening with their jobs?

It's all of the above. In fact, we were at an open house in Dallas yesterday and I spoke with several buyers who said, you know, they like the house. There's plenty out there. They have the money to do it, but they're just hitting the pause button because they're nervous. They're nervous about what kind of other of their costs are going to go up due to inflation. They're worried about their jobs. They're worried about the broader economy. And they're saying, you know, we're out shopping. We're looking. We love it. Just can't pull the trigger.

I guess part of it is watching mortgage rates. I don't know if people expect rates to come down, if they think the Fed's going to be forced to cut rates at some point, if they've watched particularly what's happened recently with rates climbing higher just from concerns all the way around.

No, actually mortgage rates weren't as big a factor and I was surprised at that. I think people are getting used to this new normal of the kind of above 6%, around 7% because mortgage rates have really been kind of teetering in this very narrow range between 6.7 and 7.1% really over the last year. They said it's not necessarily the mortgage rate, it's that overall uncertainty about how

how they feel about their own personal wealth. Remember, as I always say, a home is most people's single largest investment, and it's really hard to make that payment when you're worried about the rest of your economic situation. Diana, thank you. News about a company I kind of love.

Domino's Pizza just reporting for us pizza lovers. Earnings coming in at $4.33. A shared topping. I don't like topping. It's like you could have toppings on your pizza. Topping expectations of $4.06. I almost said like toppings with pepperoni. But anyway, revenue of $1.1 billion just below estimates. Domino's U.S. comparable store sales fell half a percent. The street was looking for a slight increase. Meanwhile, international comps growing 3.7%.

topping expectations are you guys pepperoni people got a long history with you know mushroom person with my son I'm a pepperoni now he's Tuesday night every now the Sun like this every we do they have things are very planned out and so what Tuesday is dominoes that we get to I get a large I only have one piece now because of my trying not to eat like so and then he eats a cold

The next day. So we get a large extra sauce plain and a large extra sauce pepperoni, if you must know. But it's every single Tuesday. Coming up, Chicken Parm is Friday night. Cheese will be next.

Coming up, trade talks on, trade talks off. Are we talking to China? Treasury Secretary Scott Besson. Tariffs are just one tool in his toolbox. The administration has an escalation ladder and they're a little afraid to use it. What we haven't done is escalate by embargoing those goods or putting a trade ban on those goods, which we could if we needed to, to gain more leverage. The art of the deal and much more SquawkPod ahead.

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This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information-packed daily market preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com slash market update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

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Welcome back to Squawk Pod. I'm Becky. Thank you. You're watching Squawk Box right here on CNBC. I'm Becky Quick, along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Let's get right to our newsmaker of the morning and the latest on everything, not just tariff negotiations with China. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant is with us. And it's good to see you, Mr. Secretary. Welcome.

Good morning, Joe. If you see any other reporters yelling next year like last time, you just tell them from us that they need to move it over or do something. I don't hear it. I think we're looking good at this point. All set. OK, where are we? I know that there's a lot of questions. We just mentioned China. Let's start with China. Where are we with China? Are there negotiations? Was there a phone call with President Xi and President Trump?

You know, Joe, Treasury Secretary does a lot of things, running the White House switchboard in one of them. So all aspects of government are in contact with China. And in terms of trade negotiations, we'll see where this goes. But as I've repeatedly said, that I believe that it's up to

China to deescalate because they sell five times more to us than we sell to them. And so these 125, 145% tariffs are unsustainable. We also hear about all the different countries that may be ready to deal on some level, whether it's tariffs or currency or whatever. Do you have any idea

how close we are and who could be first. And is it possible, Scott, that there could be a template that could be, we wouldn't have to do each one individually? Because it seems like it's very complex and just would extend the process to months or even years to do 100 different countries. Is there any way to do something that looks almost standardized? And who would we do it with first?

Well, Joe, we do have a standardized template. We're not going to share it. But as I said before, there are 15 to 18 important trading relationships. As you said earlier, we'll put China to the side. That's more complex negotiation. And with the other 17, we're

especially with the other Asian countries, we've had many countries come forward and present some very good proposals and we're evaluating those. But I tell you, Joe, when I look at these proposals and some of them are really where

willing to lower their tariffs, lower their non-tariff barriers. But I look at what they're proposing and I just think, how did we get here? How did we get here? And I agree with President Trump. I don't blame it on these countries. I blame it on the past administrations. And it's going to be a big victory when we make progress in getting these

tariffs, non-tariff trade barriers, currency manipulation, state subsidies of labor and industry off.

There's been quite a bit of consternation expressed about the U.S. brand and the U.S. losing its preeminence as a place for capital allocation and investment. I want to bring up, I just happened to see it this morning, one of our frequent guests, Kyle Bass, points out, okay, you're going to go somewhere else rather than the United States. Europe is anti-growth, anti-capitalist, pro-tax, super-regulatory, loose collection of broken economies,

and points out that the Eurostoxx 50 index has had a 1.86% annualized return for the past 20 years. The S&P, 10% plus. Are you concerned that this could snowball into a point where, where would they go? If you don't go to Europe, where would you go? And where will Europe go? China? Is that what we're worried about?

Well, Joe, look, what this administration is committed to is keeping the U.S. the best place in the world for capital to arrive. And we are doing that. We're going to have tax certainty. We are going to not be taken advantage of in trade anymore. And we are going to deregulate the largest—

the deregulated large economy in the world. If you look at the Draghi report, he says that Europe has basically tariffed themselves. I think it's 50% on goods, 100% on services, and we'll see if they can make any progress there. The other thing I would tell you is I imagine that the Europeans are now in a panic over the strength of the euro.

And you're going to see the ECB start cutting rates to try to get the euro back down. Europeans don't want a strong euro. We have a strong dollar policy. We just saw this unfortunate incident where China claimed sovereignty over a Philippine island. Are you going to send your capital to a country that behaves like this?

Mr. Secretary, I have a question that relates back to China, but also back to a comment that you made last week that I think actually moved the market. So last Tuesday, you had a meeting that JP Morgan hosted. This was this private investor summit. And your comments either leaked out or got out. And those comments, if you really look at the market, move the market materially higher on the back

of them where you said, quote, there will be a de-escalation in the very near future. That was the quote.

And so my question to you is, what confidence or assurance do you have, having made that statement, when it now appears, maybe I'm misunderstanding it, that when you did meet with the Chinese last week during the IMF meeting, you did not talk about tariffs yourself. And it sounds like you're not engaged or involved in these China tariff discussions yourself. Maybe the president is. I know he said that he is. But you said that you don't know about those conversations.

Well, Andrew, first of all, to clarify the meeting with JP Morgan, there was nothing that I said in that meeting, nothing that I had not already said in the mainstream media 72 hours before. So I was surprised when the market rallied. And if you were to look at what happened after the meeting, after I sat down for a press conference, markets sold off. So if you bought during the meeting, you actually lost.

To get to the meatier question, that

It's a complicated relationship with China, but it is my belief that which is unsustainable will not be sustained. And again, the Chinese business model is predicated on selling subsidized goods into the U.S., and it's just not a long-term business strategy for them. So I am sure that they will come and want to de-escalate.

Right. But that's just so we're 100 percent clear. And by the way, you may very well be right. I actually happen to agree with you on that front. But I agree with you in the context of just my presumption that that is correct, not because I've engaged in conversations with them directly. And it sounds like you haven't either. Just just so we're all on the same page. Andrew, you know, just to feed the news cycle, I'm not going to talk about where we are or not. What we're going to do is

create the best deal for the American people and that is obviously not done on television. Mr. Secretary, last Friday, Time magazine published an interview with President Trump where he said that he could see a year from now 50% tariffs on goods coming from China. Is that a future you could envision?

Again, Becky, we're going to have to see where the de-escalation takes us. President Trump is leading for the important trading partners. President Trump is leading the negotiations. And we'll see what he decides on.

Mr. Secretary, earlier this morning, Japan's economic minister said that there would be no change to our stance, that we are demanding full removal of U.S. tariffs. Can you speak to where our conversations are with the Japanese? Because clearly, at least publicly, they seem to be pushing back.

Well, you know, again, Andrew, if they want to litigate the negotiations in the press, they have an election coming up, an upper house election coming up in July. So I can't imagine that they would say anything else. You know, I don't think they're going to come out and say, oh, whatever the U.S. wants. Sure, we'll do it.

But I will tell you that the negotiations with our Asian trading partners are going very well. Vice President Vance was in India last week, talked about substantial progress. I have mentioned that the negotiations with the Republic of Korea have gone very well. And I think we've had some very substantial negotiations with our Japanese allies. Secretary, China...

It quietly says here, exempting certain goods.

from tariffs that they need, which shows their dependence on a lot of or interdependence with the United States on many, many different things. Similarly, the Trump administration has announced quite a few exemptions on some of the reciprocal tariffs for things that we absolutely need here. Doesn't it isn't this sort of an opening for what negotiations would look like in the

Would you just take a complete decoupling with China off the table right now? Since we both, we know global trade has benefited the globe. We don't want zero global trade. But doesn't this indicate what's at stake here?

Well, Joe, I think this makes my point that the Chinese, they are exempting all these goods, tells me that they want a de-escalation. And what we haven't done is escalate by embargoing those goods or putting a trade ban on those goods, which we could.

If we needed to, to gain more leverage, we haven't done it. They've actually given us a list of what comes from the U.S. that is valuable to them. And I can tell you, I do have an escalation ladder in my back pocket, and we're very anxious not to have to use it.

Mr. Secretary, Gary Cohn was on Face the Nation yesterday, and he said that he thinks we're weeks away from starting to see the effects of this actually show up, whether it be in prices or, I guess, to some extent, you could suggest in shortages of certain items. Where do you think we stand just in terms of how long it will be before Americans really start to feel this?

Becky, I can't tell you what various retailers have done in terms of stockpiling, in terms of substitution, in terms of elasticities. I didn't see Gary's interview.

Mr. Secretary, I have a separate question about Apple and maybe manufacturing in the U.S. or manufacturing as it relates to this trade war potentially with China. You saw last week that there was a news story Apple may be moving or may try to move all of its manufacturing of iPhones that are exported to the United States or imported into the United States, moving that manufacturing from China to India.

And I'm curious what you think of that. That might be an improvement from having a manufacturer in China, but it's also not manufacturing it here in the US. Well, Andrew, I think maybe it speaks to China being an unreliable trade partner. And again, these aggressive actions against the Philippines. So and as I mentioned,

I would guess that India would be one of the first trade deals we would sign. So watch this space. Mr. Secretary, should we assume that regardless of what we hear in being reported and sourced or however it's going on, that there are discussions going on between the United States and China?

at all times and probably at most different levels, both high and low. Should we ignore a lot of the noise and just assume that in ERDAS, both companies or both countries are trying to, as you say, deescalate? Can we put that in the bank?

Well, Joe, these are the two largest economies in the world. So there are a lot of touch points. As you know, last week was IMF World Bank week in D.C. I had my Chinese counterparts here and we talked about what you talk about at IMF World Bank meetings. We talked about financial stabilities. You

looked ahead to trying to prevent financial crises. You talked about global financial regulation. So there are lots of touch points all the time. Okay, we'll leave it at that then and just assume that both sides have an interest, a mutual interest, I think, in getting to a better place. We appreciate your time, as we always do. Mr. Secretary, thanks. Good to see you.

Look, he may be right. Long term, I think we do have leverage over this. The question, of course, is how much patience we all have. I'm trying to figure out. And I'm not so sure. I was looking at it, whether...

I don't want to invest in Europe versus the United States. I don't know if a lot of people would want to do that because they do have a lot of systemic issues. And just historically, we know how the averages is stocks have performed there and how the question, I guess, then comes if Europe is going to invest outside itself, would it actually align itself with China? And would we drive inflation?

other investors into China's arms. Look, I think that's the huge possibility right now. I know, but would that really happen? I mean, it just, I think you really have to... Be angry? Yeah, well, but accept a lot of... I mean, you are investing, you're investing with a country that has, you know...

concentration camps for Uighurs that has slave, I mean, it is not a great place in terms of human rights and it's a CCP. So if the euros want to get in bed with such an unsavory group, it's hard for me to believe. It's like when people would go and invest in, or investing in Russia, same difference. We seem to be moving in that direction.

I'm not so sure. He said he's talking about secondary sanctions. So that's what I'm trying to figure out. Now, India, I could see. India, I could see. India, you could see. India doing well in terms of capital being invested into India. India is allied with Russia. Right, or China. And China. I mean, both of them. So I'm not sure what we're talking about here. I'm saying that it's going to be very difficult to not

that the United States would have to do a lot more than it's done to drive investors away. Meantime, Wall Street's just waiting to see any sign of progress with these deals. I think this morning there's not a huge push one way, one direction or the other. We're in positive territory this morning. Not by a lot. We weren't down by a lot earlier. So I think there's a wait and see attitude. Let's see what it looks like with any potential deals or any news of progress on those deals, too.

Next on Squawk Pod. Strike three, you're out! The business of baseball, creating storylines that grab fans' attention with investor and head of boardroom, Rich Kleiman. These little moments that you can storytell around where you can create a new narrative, I think it allows fans to understand the importance of things again.

and what pitching great CeCe Sabathia thinks about speeding up the pace of play thanks to the updated MLB pitch clock. I wonder what pitchers used to be doing, seriously. I mean, they're screwing around so much. It's not the pitchers, it's the hitters. Stay tuned.

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information-packed daily market preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com slash market update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

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You're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC. Here's Andrew Ross Sorkin. Up and Andrew, cue.

Welcome back to Squawk Box. We're talking sports right now. Major League Baseball expanding its partnership with Boardroom. Joining us right now to discuss this and so much more in the world of sports. We'll talk a little bit of basketball, what's going on. Boardroom co-founder and CEO Rich Kleiman is here. And CeCe Sabathia is here. MLB veteran, MLB special assistant to the commissioner and vice president of the Players Alliance Board. Good morning to you both. Good morning. We want to talk about a hundred things, but let's just talk about the partnership that you've assembled now with the MLB and what that means. Yes.

Well, we've extended this partnership and I think the goal of it in the beginning was for us to kind of work with Major League Baseball and creating activations and curating people, people, curating rooms and telling stories.

Year two is going to be furthering that partnership, creating more activation, more storytelling. We have some dedicated moments that we're going to do at Fanatics Fest, at the Major League Baseball Awards, at Major League Baseball All-Star Game. And I think it's just a reflection on what Major League Baseball is seeing as the league grows and seeing how important the cultural relevance in sports is, which is what we bring.

Where do you think what's going to let's talk about licensing. I mean, I said licensing. I should say TV rights. And what's going on there? Do you have a view? Do I have a view overall over? No. On Major League Baseball.

Yeah, I mean, I think they're in a good place, to be honest. I think you see ratings are up, attendance is up, merchandise sales are up. The league has never appeared to be as global as they are now. They have global stars. They just went to Japan and you could see the impact that they had. So if I was Major League Baseball, I'd be very happy with where they are. What kind of deal do you think ultimately happens?

I hope it's a good deal. I mean, like Rich said, no, I mean, no, seriously, because, you know, like Rich said, the game is in such a good spot. The attendance is up. The pitch clock is working. You know, people are back in the ballpark. You can get into a game in two and a half, 245, so...

I think it works for TV right now. What about breaking it up, though, over either various different streamers and network? I mean, it's going to be a sort of and we've seen this now in football and other things. Yeah. Instead of a hodgepodge of places. Do we think that's ultimately good for sports?

I mean, the way I'm consuming sports, I mean, it kind of, you know, it's good for me. I mean, and I'm a huge sports fan. You know, I watch a lot of NBA. I watch a lot of NFL. And even with the Yankees, you know, I'm a huge Yankee fan. And I have to watch Amazon Prime on Wednesday. So, you know, you consume sports the way you can and, you know, walking with your phone and doing whatever you can. It makes it easy. I think it's trying to find it.

- It's frustrating sometimes to try to find it. - It's frustrating to try to find out what's where. - 'Cause it used to be you know you're going to, you know, one place. - Yeah, but I think it's actually great for sports. I mean, I think what happens on these long seasons especially is the fans have to kind of learn what the stakes are and have to understand what it is that's making them tune in. And I think when you see what the NBA did with the in-season tournament,

and you see what they do with the play, and being able to create these little moments that you can storytell around, where you can create a new narrative. So if you're Major League Baseball and you break up the season and you create moments out of certain games, certain road trips, you make a moment out of the All-Star game, I think it allows fans to understand the importance of things again. Same with Japan. Same with Japan, yeah. The starting of the season and the London series. I wonder what pitchers used to be doing, seriously. I mean, they're screwing around so much. It's not the pitchers, it's the hitters.

if you think about it it's the hitters getting about i see some pictures i can tell it's getting in their head that they don't what how would you have handled that oh i pitched i pitched quick i was always ready and it's a lot of the hitters backing out you know mark garcia power with the bat yeah yeah yeah it was always the hitters

it was always the hitters so it was the hitters so having you know it's a huge uh win it's easier for a pitcher to get into a rhythm you know so here's one call time and do whatever they can trying to ice you for straight i will say that major league baseball is ahead of the game in terms of what they've been doing since 2002 from major league baseball tv and for

streaming for all intents and purposes. So I think like the technology and what advancements the league was ahead of the game on has always been something that they've been known for. And now I think when you start to see what Major League Baseball can do from a streaming perspective, I think you'll see that same type of creativity. Rich, you know, what you talk about with storytelling and really building up the players, I think that's the key with all of these sports because you

look it's what we care about with the olympics i don't know any of these players at the olympics for the most part but i care about each and every one of them while i'm watching because of the job nbc does while they're storytelling with this i think it's great for the players to build this up probably great for the leagues but ultimately does it give the players much more leverage over the leagues when it's a league of superstars uh i mean listen i think that that's an argument that you've heard throughout time with the nba

But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's the NBA stars, I think, starting with the Larry Bird and Magic Johnson rivalries, Michael Jordan. And obviously today, like we know, NBA stars all over the world. It's great for the league and it's great for the sport. And the reason you see these streaming numbers in the NBA, I mean, these media deals in the NBA has a lot to do with the star power.

Right. So I think the reality is when Major League Baseball starts to see attendance growing and starts to see merchandise sales growing and they have stars like they have in Otani and Soto and you see the story and what's happening with my New York Mets right now. You have to commit to storytelling around that. You have to explain to people why that's important. And when you can connect with a certain star in a certain city, that's always going to be great for us. But I think that was always in baseball was the starters.

Right. It was you going to watch Roger Clemens or Pedro Martinez or whoever else. And I think we kind of lost that in baseball where, you know, you don't get those matchups anymore where you go into the ballpark to watch starting pitching. Can I ask you just a broader sort of sports investment question? Yeah. Seems like everybody's investing in sports in all sorts of different ways and all sorts of new sports as well. As if there is sort of an unlimited volume of interest in sports and that it's a great live experience. We all know that.

However, the question is sort of like, how far can you pull that rubber band? Is it a rubber band? And so when you start to think about all these other sports that are now coming into all sorts of forms of media and the storytelling that's going to be required, the cost of that storytelling to really actually be able to elevate those athletes and then the attention span that everybody has, is there a ceiling on what that even looks like as we get into sort of more and more of this? Well,

Listen, I think obviously the reality is every one of these are not going to work. Do I think that every one of them has an opportunity to work depending on the business model? Yes. Do I think that the sport and the fan bases and the quality of talent in each sport deserves an opportunity to have a major sports league? One thousand percent.

if you create a business model that tries to rival the NFL or the NBA, then you may fail. But if you understand that each one of those sports has a business model that may work for them, then I think you can bring that to life. If you think, like if you look at Love Volleyball, for instance, Love Volleyball, a company we invested in,

It was their first goal to invest in the clubs all over the country, right? And to build that grassroots presence up and to build a brand up. And then they launched their league. They had a vision for this model. If you look at tomorrow golf, right? A totally different model than I'm sure CeCe could talk to. But I think that each one of them have to look at what their fans and what their community wants out of what that model is. But of course, the short answer is every one of these will not work. No.

I do. I mean, I love it. I love the TGL. You know, he's talking about tomorrow. I mean, I think it's just something, you know, that gives fans an alternative, you know, way to consume the sport in a shorter form. And it's in the off season. So I think, you know, with the, like you said, if you're trying to do something that's going to rival a major, you know, NFL, NBA, MLB, you're going to have a problem. But if you can find a pocket, you know,

What do you think of the guys who are like, I mean, in basketball land, there's these folks trying to create this international league. I don't know if you think there's going to be some kind of other version of this in baseball. I mean, do you see like these sort of breakout things happening and that actually working against the majors? You have baseball, you have baseball united. I don't think, I don't think like Rich said, I don't think you can work it and have it work, you know, during the season. But if you have some alternative, you know, baseball united is something that they're doing in Dubai and it's in the off season. And I think it could work.

Yeah, I mean, listen, I think like we talked about last time, the reason why you see so many of these coming in play is because these leagues have been the one league in a sport that is so popular worldwide. So people see the opportunity to create other versions of it. I think it's great for the sport.

And, you know, whether they all work again is going to be tough. But I think they're great for the sport in terms of Major League Baseball, though. I mean, Major League Baseball is already a global sport. And there's always been in the offseason. There have been leagues in the Dominican Republic, their leagues in Puerto Rico. I think what we're committed to doing, as you see, this is America's pastime. And now this has become a global sport. I think you really can't understand what they did in Japan and in Tokyo. I happen to be there.

- Oh, so you know. - I went. I saw it. It was amazing. - Exactly. So our job is going to be creating these moments all year long with the league. And I mean, I'm excited about it because this is a sport we all grew up on and this is a sport that I think people thought was fading away and it's quite the opposite. I mean, I think the sport's in the best place it's been in years.

And for us, it's perfect timing because you know what we do and we're going to pop up at moments throughout the Major League Baseball calendar and you're going to see storytelling committed all year long. And I think that's, you know, what's going to be the benefit of this partnership. What's the football league that every once in a while I see a game? The UFL? Yeah, I guess. I just can't switch the channel fast enough. But you always switch to it. Don't you always switch to it, though? No, I go away from it. No, you go to it and then you may go away from it. No, I don't go to it. I see that it's on and I go, who is watching this because I'm changing it.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry to tell you that. People are watching that? I mean, I have nothing to do with it, but... I know. I'm not... I'm just saying you can't do everything. No, you can't do everything. That's why I said if you try to create a model... They've tried how many times? XFL. You will fail. That's a fact. That's a fact. You're right. That's a fact. Indoor. Arena football? Yeah, you're right. Yeah, arena football. No, you're right. It's a challenge.

It's a challenge. You're being nice. How long is your investing timeline? I mean, do you look at this as something where you're like pickleball? How long are you in that? Do you sell that at some point because it's come up in value? Or do you look at this as a real long-term holding where your timeframe is 10, 20 years? I mean, listen, we're making investments in these leagues and in these sports that are not the controlling investor. These aren't the check sizes of NBA owners and NFL owners.

We're investing in emerging startup businesses for all intents and purposes. So for us, I think there's a learning that we get from each one of these in terms of building a media brand. I've said from the beginning, when I invest in Pickleball or invest in Tomorrow Golf, there's communities that I can now align with that we can storytell around and impact, but also we can grow off of. But I do see a lot of them as longer term investments. This is not the kind of thing that I want to get in and sell in two years.

Hey, I don't even think that there's a way to monetize these things in two years. So this is about, you know, sticking to these and helping them grow and seeing where they go. C.C., I'm curious, what other leagues do you watch right now and go,

They're clever. That's interesting. Like, I want to, we should take a little bit of that. We should take a little bit of that. I watch a lot of the NBA, and I watch a lot of how the players are involved, and that was the first reason I called Rich. You know, when I got the job with MLB Assistant to Rob, Rich was the first person I thought about just culturally and, you know, just thinking about my experience as a kid and growing up. My mom was a baseball fan, so that's why I went to so many different games and so many different events, going to get autographs and things like that. So I want to create that space for,

you know, for people to grow and create more fans. And that ultimately creates more players. So he was the first person I thought about to create those experiences, and it's been great so far. Who do you like this year? I asked you. You blew me off. Who do you like this year? NBA. I mean, I'm watching a lot of these games. Celtics, I don't think they would be. I like OKC. I was thinking that, too. I was thinking that. I really like what Minnesota's doing right now. I had them, yeah.

And I like Cleveland, too, so we'll see. They can score. I always score for the Cleveland team. You do, but not Cincinnati. Well, I started in Cleveland. Okay. We've got to thank CeCe. We've got to thank Rich. We've got to remind everybody. Yes. We're going to be doing the boardroom event, big event, collaboration with CNBC. That's going to take place in September, September 16th in Santa Monica. Year three. Getting the QR code right now to get more. Kevin Durant is going to be there. He'll be there. What teams are you going to be playing for by then?

Boardroom, baby. Boardroom, baby. Boardroom, baby. Okay. Year three. Year three. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be awesome. We've had a couple awesome days, and we're going to make another one. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.

And that is the pod for today. Thanks for listening on this Monday. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern. To get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears, follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcasts. Have a great day. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow. We are clear. Thanks, guys.

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