Pentagon Sending 700 Marines to Counter Los Angeles Protests
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Los Angeles entered its fourth day of unrest sparked by immigration raids, with President Trump suggesting that Gavin Newsom should be arrested for his response. And the governor suing the administration for deploying National Guard troops to the city. Separately, the Pentagon is mobilizing 500 active duty Marines to help reinforce the National Guard in response to protests in Los Angeles. This is according to a person familiar with the story.

with the matter. All right. So let's get to it with Sarah McGregor. She is with us. She's Bloomberg News National Team Managing Editor based in Los Angeles, and she joins us from the L.A. Bureau. Sarah, you know, we've talked with you before, different moments of crisis in and around the L.A. area. Just talk to us, first of all, a little perspective from you and this city and what you have seen over the last few days.

Absolutely. I think the last time we spoke, it was during the L.A. wildfires when the California National Guard were here to protect people. And of course, now we're seeing them in the city at the order of Trump against the wishes of Newsom, trying to quell demonstrations that are across the city. And just to put into context today, over the weekend, you know, we did see some violence, some clashes with the police, more than 30 people arrested at those. But

you know, it's quite isolated pockets. Downtown LA, just areas south of the city, this is in response to immigration rates. Today, what we're seeing are largely peaceful protests so far. There's a large gathering in downtown LA, but so far we aren't seeing that sort of violence that

that picked up later in the day yesterday. So, you know, just to put that into perspective, as the Marines are now being sent, actually we are reporting it's 700 now. We've gotten more information that it's now 700. And so apparently they're on their way to L.A. and that definitely sets the stage for tensions to rise. You know, I think people outside of the Los Angeles area and perhaps in Los Angeles, they see images of...

unrest in LA and if they're of a certain age, maybe they think of 1992 and what we saw in the wake of the video of Rodney King being beaten and the riots that happened in April and May of that year. Can you contextualize that and just put this into historical context of what the city has seen?

I don't want to downplay anything because I do know police officers have been hurt and the security forces have definitely had to respond and they've thrown bricks. Different charges have been laid, including attempted murder for throwing a Molotov cocktail. So there's definitely some serious counts here. But ultimately, the city is widely calm. And I think it's just sort of the comparable now of sending in the National Guard, now sending in Marines, that really it doesn't seem to be a match in terms of...

And that's what the Trump, the Newsom administration would say. It doesn't really seem to be a match in terms of what the needs are for the security forces. So that's not to say that things could escalate. But I think the worry from Newsom, from Mayor Bass, is that it's actually by sending in the big guns that things will actually tensions will rise and people will lose their cool. And so I think they're more worried that the show of force will actually make the situation even worse.

You mentioned today, Sarah, that we're seeing some peaceful protests. I'm just curious, though, have the protests grown in number? It is really hard to tell because they are spread out. It does seem in sort of similar numbers from day to day in terms of protesters. Today, we're actually seeing a large number of people in downtown L.A. protesting a labor leader, a major labor leader who has been detained. He's been charged actually now with obstructing the pathway of a federal vehicle. And so he's going to face charges on that.

And some local leaders like Maxine Waters, some Democratic leaders, Adam Schiff, have called for his release, have asked to enter the detention center where he's being held and they were denied. So I think that's raising some tensions on a whole other level of just a bit of an outcry about this labor leader being detained.

Sir, when we last checked in with you regularly, it was during the devastating wildfires in and around the Los Angeles area. At that time, Mayor Karen Bass was getting a lot of criticism from folks about the city's response to the fires. How would you characterize the role that she's taken during these during this latest episode that we're speaking to you about? What has she been doing?

I think because, you know, the exchange, especially today on social media, has largely been between Newsom and Trump. Newsom, you know, just sent a tweet out, for instance, with a picture of some of the National Guard sleeping on the floor saying Trump sent these people here and now they have no place to rest. They have no food.

You know, it's sort of back and forth between Trump and Newsom. I think that's sort of overshadowed, I think, the efforts locally on the ground of what folks are doing, at least from a national perspective. So, you know, Karen Bass has been up front. She's been holding press conferences. You know, there hasn't been a criticism, I think, about the LAPD, the L.A. police force, and how they've been handling the situation writ large outside of Trump and his administration. So

I think here at home, there isn't a lot of analysis yet, I suppose, of how it's being handled at a local level. But it does seem like it's, you know, calm heads.

Sarah, I am also curious about kind of the mood and the viewpoint of most Los Angelinos, if you will. It's a diverse city, folks from many walks of life in Los Angeles. So I'm just curious, what is the public's view if there's a general view when it comes to immigration right now? Well, you know,

You know, all of these protests did stem from some raids on Friday and the public seeing, you know, seeing the ICE folks mobilizing around Home Depots or the Fashion District in L.A. to capture folks. And so that anger is palpable. That's where this all stemmed from.

You know, we have been receiving LAUSD. The school district has had a press conference today, you know, telling people they're not going to cooperate with ICE in terms of, you know, handing over anyone or giving names and numbers of, you know, parents in the school district. They're going to protect the kids. So I do think it sort of raises that awareness that in a way, I think there have been isolated raids in LA, but

We haven't really felt the brunt of this deportation campaign by Trump. And I think as they've scaled things up to try and reach numbers, to try and reach their 3,000 a day minimum of arrests, we started to see L.A. be ground zero for that. Yeah, it's been remarkable to see play out over the last four days. Governor Cuomo, who's running for mayor of New York City, was on Bloomberg surveillance a little earlier, Sarah, and he made the point that

You might actually see he made the point that what you see in Los Angeles, you could see in New York City next. And I'm just wondering how you view a comment such as that with regard to what you've seen the federal government and what we've reported the federal government do in Los Angeles.

Absolutely. I mean, we are watching out, of course, to see if sort of protests break out in other cities in solidarity of what's happening in L.A. We saw some protests in San Francisco, for example, yesterday where 60 people were arrested. So it is possible, especially in some of these blue states where they have sanctuary city policies that the Trump administration has been very critical of. You know, it is something to watch out for whether similar things will will unfold in these cities.

All right. We're going to leave it on that note. Listen, Sarah, thanks so much for always keeping us up to date. Sarah McGregor, she is our Bloomberg News National Team Managing Editor. She's based in Los Angeles and she's been joining us from our LA Bureau. How can you grow your business from idea to industry leader? Bring your vision to life with smart business buying tools and technology from Amazon Business. From

from fast free shipping to in-depth buying insights and automated purchase approvals. They deliver everything you need to achieve your goals.

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Well, trade talks between the U.S. and China stretched on in London. The U.S. signaled a willingness to remove restrictions on some tech exports in exchange for assurances that China is easing limits on rare earth shipments. The meeting began just after 1 p.m. local time. It's expected to extend into the U.K. evening. It may restart on Tuesday, Carol.

if necessary. We've got a great voice on this. We do indeed. Back with us, Dexter Tiff Roberts. He's a non-resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council's Global China Hub. He's also author of Trade War, a weekly newsletter on China's economy. He's also a professor of Chinese politics at the University of Montana. He's former Bloomberg Businessweek

China bureau chief. He lived in Beijing for two decades, covering it all for Businessweek. And he's author of the 2020 book. We've talked to him about this, The Myth of Chinese Capitalism, The Worker, the Factory, and the Future of the World. Sorry, we're out of time now with the interview. But this is why you want to talk to him about China. He joins us from Missoula, Montana. Tiff, good to have you back with us.

Yeah, these negotiations between the US and China, what for you is what you think we should all have on our radar here?

Well, it's all from the U.S. perspective. As we know, it's all about rare earth exports. We've got ourself in a situation over a number of years where China absolutely dominates the production and the processing of these crucial, crucial rare earths that, you know, we need for almost everything. You know, you name it, we need it. We need rare earths, smartphones, smartphones.

you know, electric vehicles, robotics, missile systems, you know, defense needs as well.

If that's the case, and we spoke to Gracelyn Baskerin at CSIS a little earlier in our program, she joined us from South Africa, and we talked specifically about rare earths. But in the context of trade negotiations and who actually has the leverage, since for the U.S. this is all about rare earths, does that mean that China has the upper hand in your view? Yeah.

Well, I actually do think China has a little bit more leverage than the U.S., but it's close. We had the numbers earlier this week. Chinese exports disappointed. You know, we saw this dramatic, I think it was 34.5% drop in exports to the U.S.,

You know, they've been doing a little bit better because they've been selling a lot to Southeast Asia, the EU and Africa, but not well enough. So China's, it's not like China's not hurting, but I do think, you know, on the US side, there's these real fears about inflation if the trade war goes on. We saw the relatively weak job report and we got something called the midterm elections coming up. And China, as we know, doesn't have any midterm elections ahead.

Well, I love that you went there. And I was going to ask you, you know, Tiff, what about, you know, what is it about the grand kind of Chinese experiment and mission that has happened under President Xi? As you said, there's no midterms. He's pretty well entrenched and ensconced in his position. But what is it about his mission, his great experiment and, you know, kind of goal in creating the Chinese economy that we look at today? What about it works? What doesn't?

Well, first of all, I would just say that grand goal, it's clear Xi Jinping has and has been vocalized and publicized more often in Chinese than English. But they're very clear that they want China to play a dominant role in global supply chains, as they already do, but they want to strengthen that at the high end.

and they want to dominate advanced technology so first of all that grand goal that we see out of beijing unfortunately is in direct con conflict with with uh what we would like to see in the u.s so i guess i just say at the outset uh you know we may get some some agreements i think we will out of london but i i'm really skeptical skeptical that they're going to to last long term for that reason there's a real uh there's a real uh

difference of opinions, if you will, about who's going to lead in advanced tech and supply chains globally. Tiff, this is almost an impossible question for any single person to answer, but I think you can probably give as good of a view into this as anybody else. For the last few months, Carol and I have been trying to figure out what exactly is happening on the ground when it comes to the Chinese economy. To what extent is the Chinese economy ahead of the U.S. when it comes to electric vehicles, when it comes to robotics, when it comes to A.I.?

Because over the last few years, what we've learned is that there's, yes, been a property crisis. The consumer is under pressure. There's a debt crisis, certainly, as well, we've reported on extensively. So how would you characterize the Chinese consumer, the Chinese economy, and where the strengths and weaknesses are right now?

Well, there's a real you've just hit upon it, Tim. There's this real dichotomy. We have seen tremendous success in areas like electric vehicles. There's no question now that they are doing far better than we are and leading the world in terms of affordable and very good electric vehicles. And I saw that last year when I rode in some as well when I was in China.

We saw, you know, obviously areas like smartphones. Apple fell out of the top five brands in the China market. So there's huge success there. Robotics, again, very, very impressive. Obviously, with AI, we saw with the Sputnik moment, as people referred to it, with Deep Sea, an absolutely impressive success.

large language, you know, LLM. So that's the one side. On the other side, you have, you mentioned, you have a very weak consumer market. You have an overhang from,

Continuing from the real estate market, which has been so important to the economy, and then also the pandemic. They've really never recovered from it. So we saw both those cited by the OECD earlier this week when they downgraded their forecast for Chinese growth, I think, to 4.6% for next year. It's not clear what China's strategy is at this point to actually reverse that and bring confidence back, not just the household, but also to the private sector as well.

You know, Tiff, what I find really interesting is basically you've got the two largest economies in the world wanting to stay or be number one.

Right. And what's interesting is I feel like the U.S. is kind of trying to put limitations on the China or telling European allies what you can or can't sell to China. And, you know, it's like yet we don't want China to put any restrictions on us. So I am curious to see how this plays out. And I think a big part of it will be where allies fall.

And so what kind of carving up of the world will we see? And who do you expect will ally themselves with China? Who with the United States? And does Donald Trump make it better or worse for the U.S. developing the alliances that it really needs?

Well, wonderful and very important question, Carol. If you'd asked me six months ago, before January 20th, I think we could see some pretty solid allies in Europe, among some of our real close partners in Asia, Japan, South Korea, Australia. Since January 20th, since the tariffs, the beautiful...

tariffs that have been, you know, imposed and threatened over 50 times, by the way, over 50 different tariffs and adjustments to tariff policy coming out of Washington. There's I think I think our alliances are feeling I'm afraid a little bit. Our allies and our alliances are a bit frayed. So, you know, the other thing I just want to mention, China hasn't been sitting still at

They are very aware, the U.S. has been aware as well, about this almost existential tech and supply chain rivalry between the two countries. They've spent the recent years really sort of redirecting the country's investment focus. So we see, for example, just take a basic agricultural product. We've seen how they

made tremendous strides in lessening their reliance on American soybeans and instead buy the majority now from Brazil. We've seen that across the board.

So there's been a real growth. There's been a real growth in exports, Chinese exports and investment into what we call the global south and a lessening of the reduction of the relationship between the U.S. and to a lesser degree with the EU, although the EU is very much in play now. I think China sees that as a real potential ally that they can scoop up.

All right. So so if I can can just follow just real quickly, Tiff. So then do you see China lying with a bunch of European nations and who ultimately is the U.S. allies at Russia? Like, just carve it up for me, if you would.

Well, I certainly hope that's not what happens. I don't think we should be outlying with Russia. And Russia, of course, is a pretty insignificant. I mean, it's it's not insignificant, but economically and in terms of trades trade, it's a relatively small player, unlike the EU, obviously. So, you know, I'm hopeful that we've seen some new pragmatism, if you will,

I hope, coming out of Washington. There's been a willingness to try to renegotiate some of these initial tariff threats that were imposed by Washington. So I would hope we'll see, you know, first of all, out of London again, although I'm not sure how long that can stick, but some progress in cooling tensions. And then moving on to some of our other partners. Obviously, there's been the talks with India as well. So...

I guess I'm not giving you a great straight answer, Carol, but so much is changing so fast. I do think, just to finish with one thought on that, I do think that Trump has made it clear, we know this of course, that he perceives himself as a dealmaker. He wants to cut deals. And he, if necessary, will reduce those tariffs and try to create a better relationship with countries, starting right now in London with China.

Tiff, we've talked a lot about this with other people. We haven't heard your take on it. But we know the president, and he's been public about this, he said he doesn't care if iPhones are made in India. He wants them to be made here in the U.S. He doesn't want them in China. He doesn't want them to be made in India, as Apple has diversified its supply chain. Given what you know about iPhone production, do you believe it's realistic for us to think that Apple could actually build iPhones in the U.S.?

you know, if we want to spend, you know, $5,000 per iPhone. No, I don't think so. I think that's, I mean, if he were able to convince iPhone to do that, it's going to hurt all of us. It's certainly going to hurt us, the consumers, in much higher prices. There's no reason for Apple to do that. And even as Apple has fallen out of the top five places in the China market, China is an important market for Apple. India is an important market going forward. So there's no reason for Apple to do that.

Electric vehicles. That's an interesting tidbit that Trump threw up on the election trail, I think, in Iowa, where he talked about welcoming Chinese electric vehicle makers into the U.S. That makes sense. It would be a big step. You think that could happen? You think we could see that? You think we could see that in the next couple of years?

Definitely a possibility. Trump has indicated he would look into that. That would destroy U.S. automakers, no? Yeah.

If maybe maybe maybe take a leaf from the old China model and say we get 50 percent or 51 percent of a joint venture and you have to work with our our companies. This is, you know, sounds a little crazy, but that's what China did. And it worked very well for them. Maybe the U.S. could try something like that.

And Trump, again, he has indicated that he might be open to that. The idea that you would have, you know, big Chinese factories in the U.S. and creating American jobs. Certainly that's what Europe is doing right now.

All right. We got to leave it there. Hey, Tiff, thank you so much. Good to get some thoughts from you on this situation. Of course, we're going to continue to monitor those talks over in London between U.S. and Chinese officials, which, as we've been talking, could go into the evening as well as into tomorrow. Of course, Tiff Roberts, professor of Chinese politics at the University of Montana, former Bloomberg Businessweek China bureau chief and also the author of The Myth of Chinese Capitalism.

This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2 p.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say, Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130. Watching shares of Apple today falling by 1.2%, the company's annual Worldwide Developer Conference. Kicking off in Cupertino, Ed Ludlow was there earlier. He brought you some updates today.

You could kind of wait around all year for the WWDC to get some news, or you could just read what Mark Gurman has been writing in his newsletter and what he's been reporting for Bloomberg subscribers and terminal clients, because he pretty much called everything. Mark Gurman is joining us now. He's managing editor for Global Consumer Technology. He joins us from our Bloomberg Los Angeles bureau. Mark, I'm kind of joking, but I'm also kind of not joking. We knew a lot of this was coming thanks to your reporting.

Did you learn anything new at WWDC today? I think we got everything.

I think Apple told a good story. I think they showed a cohesive message of unification across its platforms. They definitely didn't pre-announce things. Everything you saw today is going to come out before the end of the year. That's why you didn't see much forward-looking stuff like you've seen in the past two years. They got a lot of flack for that. The other thing to understand are the new iPad changes. The iPad multitasking changes are significant, all-encompassing, and have long been requested by

they make the iPad function more like a Mac, and it certainly is going to be a big improvement for people who are relying more and more on devices like the iPad as their main computing platform. Hey, one of the things that we've been talking about, we also caught up with Ed Ludlow earlier, who was also there, about AI models and opening that up to developers. Big deal? Because we've talked with you several times about Apple really lagging behind when it comes to artificial intelligence. How do you see this move?

This was a necessary move. They need to open those underlying models in order to get developers to use Apple intelligence and to make it a bigger competitor to the LLMs from other companies. So certainly this was a necessary move. This is another move that we had anticipated for days now. Certainly it's going to be seen which developers are going to want to do this. How good are these LLMs? Do developers really want to hitch their wagon to Apple LLMs versus third-party LLMs that could also run on the company's

these devices certainly to be seen. Hey, Mark, want to make sure we have a little bit of a delay. So I'm going to give our team a little bit of time to work on resetting this connection. Once again, we're speaking with Mark Gurman. He's head of global consumer technology, managing editor for global consumer technology. He's joining us from our Los Angeles bureau. Liquid glass is the overhauled visual design for Apple's new software platform. That's how the experience

is being described by Apple. Mark, what does that unveiling tell you or tell us about the way Apple's thinking about hardware moving forward?

In terms of Apple hardware moving forward, I think this new glass interface is a peak of what's to come. iOS 26 obviously has the liquid glass UI, and certainly there's going to be a lot of changes to the iPhone for the 20th anniversary in 2027, and an all-glass design is going to be part of that. And so now you'll have software and hardware that are both glass-heavy and all integrated. So I think this is a driving force behind that change.

Anything you heard from the developers that were there, Mark, that kind of, were they more hopeful? Were they more excited? Were they more like, we wanted more? I'm just curious, any kind of feedback that you've been hearing? I think developers like the story Apple told. I think developers like the integration of large language models into Xcode for programming. I think developers are excited about the iPad multitasking changes, as I am. I think developers are excited about the new 3D web browser view on the Vision Pro and the widgets and the like.

So I think there's a lot to like if you are a deep user of the Apple platforms. But remember, we're talking about legacy platforms here. We're talking about operating system franchises that have existed for decades. What we're not talking about are new interface paradigms, new operating systems, artificial intelligence, because quite frankly...

Apple didn't have any of that to show today. Yes. Okay, that's what I wanted to hit on, Mark, is what we still haven't seen from Apple when it comes to AI. You've long documented the struggles that the company has had. Everybody should go read your reporting on this. Did we get anything from Apple on AI today? Apple is perfecting its past. It's not perfecting or setting the groundwork for its future. And that is a scary thing.

Maybe that's why we saw shares do what they did today, Carol. I don't know. I think that's why. Shares only fell 1%. Go ahead, Mark. They didn't say anything to drive shares down or up. They just didn't show anything remarkably innovative and exciting. Investors are looking for all the AI buzzwords. They're looking for AI innovation. You've seen it from Google, OpenAI, Anthropic, Microsoft, NetApp. You've not seen it from Apple.

Yeah, it was about a 3% swing today, up as much as 1%, down almost 2%, and finishing the day down about 1.2% here. All right, Mark, glad we could check in with you. Yeah, Mark laid it out for us really ahead of the event, but just good to get him to weigh in kind of afterwards. Mark Gurman, he's Bloomberg News Managing Editor for Global Consumer Tech.

out there in our LA bureau. Just reading the highlights from our live blog, the iPhone getting revamped, iPhone and camera apps that focus on simplicity, the AI futures though, Carol, underwhelming. How can you grow your business from idea to industry leader? Bring your vision to life with smart business buying tools and technology from Amazon Business. From fast free shipping to in-depth buying insights and automated purchase approvals, they deliver everything you need to achieve your goals.

It's not easy to stand out from the crowd. Simplify how you stock up to get ahead. Go to AmazonBusiness.com for support. Thrivent can help you plan your finances for the people, causes, and community you love. What makes Thrivent different? Financial services and generosity programs are combined to help you build a financial roadmap for the future while also creating opportunities to give back along the way. Visit Thrivent.com to learn more. Thrivent, where money means more.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Or watch us live on YouTube.

We also continue to monitor different things that come out of the White House, and they certainly have made some comments when it comes to health care, pharmaceuticals in the United States, which is one of the reasons we want to really get to our next guest. Good X. Good RX, I should say. They recently reported earnings. Just a little bit of background. Shares did jump after the drug pricing comparison software company.

They did boost their guidance for adjusted EBITDA for the full year, following better than expected results for the first quarter. We did see analysts saying, some of them, that the EBITDA beat and raised as a good start to 2025 for the company. Let's get into the business and how White House policies are impacting GoodRx. Wendy Barnes is president and CEO of the company. She joins us from Charlotte, North Carolina. The company, by the way, market capital is about $1.4 billion, shares $2

year to date are down about 12%. They're down more than 50% though in the past year. Wendy, good to have you here with us. There's a lot going on in your space. But I want to talk first and start with a new initiative that you guys have actually introduced today. It's called the Community Links Program. Why did you do this? What was the impetus for creating it?

Hi, Carol. Thanks for having me. I appreciate the question. So, you know, I would say the company's been on a multi-year journey to best partner with retail pharmacies, with community pharmacies really being at the top of that list.

And this is really the culmination of that work. And so what you referenced, the GoodRx Community Link, is a portal by which community pharmacies sometimes referred to as independent pharmacies. So think of those as really your non-chain

They can be as small as a single pharmacy or some community independent pharmacy owners have, you know, 50, 75 or 100 locations. But largely they're run independent of a broader management philosophy. And this is our effort to contract directly with these pharmacies.

in a cost plus reimbursement mechanism manner. Look, it's not any new news to you or probably to your listeners that pharmacies continue to be under reimbursement pressure. And

And we believe that they are key partners in our broader mission to make medications more affordable and accessible for every American. And so this effort is really one in which we're trying to bolster reimbursement for those independent pharmacies such that they can work with us directly.

And in addition to that, we're giving them access to 90 plus brand deals that we have secured with pharmaceutical manufacturers over the last 12 to 24 months. And those continue to grow such that the reimbursement on those same drugs is favorable to those pharmacies. It's really no secret that pharmacies have long struggled to have a favorable margin profile on many brands that they fill.

And this, too, gives access to those programs for those independent pharmacies. Well, Wendy, anecdotally speaking, as the large pharmacies and the chains have come under pressure, whether it's over store closures or different things happening just in the space, we've all reported on what's happened in cities and the way that some of these pharmacies have closed down in certain cities. Are you seeing more people go to these independent pharmacies?

I mean, anecdotally speaking, I can say that certainly the way my family has changed its behavior just thanks to availability and what pharmacies tend to actually have what we're looking for. But how have you seen that affect the overall landscape?

I don't know that we've seen a meaningful shift to independent from chain. I think there's still a pretty good mix of grocer versus independent versus chain and candidly, you know, mail order slash digital pharmacy. I think at the end of the day, what we see is in the 70 plus odd thousand pharmacy options that we have as consumers in the U.S.,

that as a consumer, you just really want to get your drugs on your own terms, whether it's mail to your home with your preferred community pharmacist or at a chain or grocer. And we pride ourselves on working really with all pharmacies such that you can get your drugs when and where you desire to do so.

Do you see at all that the independent channel is shrinking? We've certainly seen it with some of the big pharmacy chains, right? We've talked about it. You've seen the headlines. But I'm just curious, when it comes to independence, Wendy, do you see any shrinkage in terms of the number of outlets that are out there or no?

You know, I will say in the numbers that we've looked at over the last couple of years, there are still a good number opening in any given month. I will say in our book with the pharmacies that we work with, I haven't seen significant shrinkage, but I think there are certainly other data sources that would suggest that there are a number of independent and or community pharmacies that are closing and or selling their business to other owners. But in our particular book, it's held pretty steady.

How have independents traditionally reacted to the program at GoodRx? Because it's our understanding they've been a little skeptical about it. How do you make sure that they're embracing it rather than treating it with skepticism?

Sure. Well, I think, you know, look, it's early days to be clear, and we're going to be on a journey here. Communication is going to be the, you know, the biggest part of this program, in addition to delivering what we said we intend to deliver, which is fair economics over the course of these contractual agreements as pharmacies agree to contract with us directly. And that, again, can all be conveyed through that portal that we stood up

this morning. So for me, it's really going to be about how we deliver on the reimbursement mechanism through this partnership. And I think, you know, the ongoing communication will support

how the pharmacy community embraces this over time. You know, we've certainly been sending out communications early on. We've been in dialogue with many independent pharmacy owners to speak through the program. But I think at the end of the day, it's really going to be the outcome of the program and the economics that we deliver that will prove it out over time.

Well, that's why I want to kind of just dig a little bit deeper, Wendy. You know, for this to work for you guys, this new rollout, this Community Links program, the economics have to work right for the independent pharmacy. So I'm just curious what you can tell us how the economics are different for the pharmacy that directly contacts with GoodRx, right?

versus using maybe one of the pharmacy benefit managers, the PBMs, and their networks to dispense a prescription. What can you tell us more specifically about the economic advantage for independent pharmacies to use your route versus going to the PBMs?

Sure, happy to do so. So it's really the agreement directly with us is rooted on a NADAC plus reimbursement. So NADAC is one of multiple benchmarks that is effectively a cost mechanism. It stands for National Average Drug Acquisition Cost.

And we are negotiating with independent pharmacies to do this with that predicated as the baseline plus an amount that keeps them profitable on filling these claims. So that's really the precursor, if you will, and or the meat of how this agreement will work.

which again provides favorable economics to these pharmacies. The distinction, Carol, as you called out to perhaps doing it through a larger payer, when you think about how it works through, let's just say a larger PDM, there are multiple patient pay slash cash networks through which an independent pharmacy can participate. And when they're in that type of an algorithm for lack of better description,

Typically, it's going to search for not necessarily favorable margin for the pharmacy. And so there would be times in their previous arrangement whereby they may not always have favorable economics to fill those prescriptions. And by contracting directly,

We are putting terms and conditions in the agreement that allow them to have certainty around not only the reimbursement, but also access to drugs that they're not fulfilling today in patient pay programs. Again, that would be the list of brands that I mentioned that I believe are 90 plus at this point. So they're going to have certainty around how they're reimbursed in this direct engagement through us that they're not getting through their arrangements today.

Hey, Wendy, we're watching everything happening outside of Washington and coming out of Washington really closely. We're expected to hear from the president in just a few minutes. There's an event happening in the Oval Office that's about a kid account event scheduled. It was scheduled for 2 p.m. We understand the press pool has gathered. If the president starts to take questions, we will certainly go there. In the meantime, thinking about health care in the United States, it is inextricably bound to politics. And no question,

If what the president calls the big beautiful bill were to pass, we could see, at least according to the CBO, estimates of a dramatic increase in the number of uninsured, almost 8 million.

What does that mean for your business and how much of your business comes from Medicaid and uninsured people today? So interestingly, of the users who access our pricing on any given day, roughly 90% actually have insurance today. So I think there's a bit of a misperception that the overwhelming number of consumers who use us, in fact, don't have insurance, which is not the case. Having said that,

who does come and look for pricing through our different platforms is your consumer who's motivated to check for competitive pricing, whether they have insurance or not. And we continue to be the number one platform to look for the best price deal that you can find on any particular medication. So as it pertains to what may or may not pass in the bill, whether it's inclusive of Medicaid cuts, which continue to be advanced,

and or other cuts that would put

pressure on your typical household income, what we do know is that those should produce tailwinds for us as a business for consumers, whether they're insured or not. But specifically as it relates to Medicaid cuts and the number of individuals that may fall out of coverage, we do believe that that presents an opportunity for us to continue to support any American that really is struggling to purchase their medications.

Wendy, just got 30 seconds. You know, the word that we all use to describe the environment right now is uncertain. There's a lot coming at certainly leaders and CEOs. Just in your industry, too, you've got Rite Aid doing a bankruptcy. You know, I think about the macro within your business and just macro overall. Just got about 25 seconds. How do you look at the outlook? Just quickly.

You know, the outlook, you're right. Turbulent is a fair description. Having said that, businesses that stay the course and have a mission that makes sense for the consumers in which we serve will continue to thrive. And our goal, of course, is getting medication affordably and effectively into the hands of every American who need it. And we believe we'll be in a position to take advantage. Wendy Barnes, president and CEO of GoodRx.

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