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cover of episode The Surveillance State Trump Is Inheriting

The Surveillance State Trump Is Inheriting

2024/12/15
logo of podcast What Next: TBD | Tech, power, and the future

What Next: TBD | Tech, power, and the future

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主持人
专注于电动车和能源领域的播客主持人和内容创作者。
拜登政府官员
迈克·沃尔兹
Topics
Ronan Farrow: 先进的间谍软件,例如Pegasus,可以秘密入侵手机,访问所有数据,包括实时信息,麦克风和摄像头,而用户毫不知情。这种技术已在多个西方民主国家被政府滥用,针对活动家、异议人士和反对派成员。西班牙政府利用间谍软件攻击了加泰罗尼亚分离主义者,美国政府也购买并使用类似技术,例如Paragon公司的间谍软件,用于入侵Signal和Telegram等通讯应用。尽管美国政府试图通过行政命令限制商业间谍软件的使用,但这些命令含糊不清,效果有限。数字监控技术比传统的电话记录监控更详细、更私密,可以获取个人健康信息等敏感数据。被监控会造成恐吓和压制言论自由,即使是无政治倾向的旁观者也可能成为目标。缺乏有效的法律框架来限制监控技术的滥用,需要国会采取积极措施进行监管。这个问题不应被政治化,保守派人士也应该关注政府权力过大的问题。 Lizzie O'Leary: 数字监控技术日益普遍,美国政府在两党执政时期都购买并使用了这种技术。特朗普政府秘密获取了《纽约时报》记者的电话记录,拜登政府也购买了Paragon公司的间谍软件。与传统的电话记录监控相比,数字监控技术可以获取更详细和私密的信息,包括个人健康信息等敏感数据。这些信息可能被用于政治目的或压制异见。 拜登政府官员: 美国政府会利用一切手段维护国家利益,包括使用监控技术,但承认存在合法的执法和国家安全用途。 迈克·沃尔兹: 为了国家安全,应该扩大监控范围,包括监控来自中国的个人。 WhatsApp程序员: WhatsApp发现其系统中存在间谍软件,这只是冰山一角。发现间谍软件后,WhatsApp团队立即进入紧急状态,全力应对。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What can advanced spyware like Pegasus access on a phone?

Advanced spyware like Pegasus can access everything on a phone, including photos, texts, emails, and real-time activities. It can silently turn on the microphone and camera without the user's knowledge, effectively turning the phone into a spy device.

How has the surveillance industry evolved in recent years?

The surveillance industry has become more common and accessible, with governments purchasing cheaper spyware to target peaceful activists, dissidents, and political opposition. Scandals have emerged in Western democracies like Greece, Poland, and Spain, where this technology has been misused.

What happened in Spain regarding the use of spyware?

The Spanish government used spyware to hack the phones of Catalonian separatist politicians, civil society members, and innocent bystanders during the 2017 independence bid. Even apolitical individuals, like family members of investigators, were infected, exposing private data.

What is the current state of legal protections against surveillance in the U.S.?

Legal protections against surveillance in the U.S. are porous, with many loopholes. While constitutional protections exist, they are often insufficient to prevent overreach. The Biden administration signed an executive order to limit commercial spyware use, but it remains vague and lacks specificity.

What role does the Department of Homeland Security play in surveillance?

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) often purchases legally questionable surveillance technology under a national security rationale, avoiding scrutiny. This technology can be deployed beyond immigration contexts, potentially targeting a wide range of individuals without transparency or legal limits.

Why is Michael Waltz's history significant in the surveillance debate?

Michael Waltz, Trump's national security advisor, advocated for expanding the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to more easily spy on individuals, particularly those entering the U.S. illegally. His stance suggests a potential increase in surveillance under the Trump administration, especially targeting immigrants.

How does surveillance technology impact democracy?

Surveillance technology shrinks the space for free expression and dissent, intimidating individuals and suppressing information flow. It threatens democracy by enabling governments to monitor and potentially misuse private information against citizens, even in unexpected contexts like health care and abortion.

What are the challenges in regulating spyware technology?

Regulating spyware technology is challenging due to its rapid evolution, lack of international frameworks, and the absence of robust domestic laws. Spyware companies compare themselves to arms dealers, highlighting the need for legal constraints akin to the Geneva Conventions.

Shownotes Transcript

Our lives, and our communication in particular, are increasingly conducted over the internet. This means we are increasingly able to be hacked and monitored, by governments, by the police, and more and more by anyone who can get their hands on the available software.

Guest: Ronan Farrow, investigative reporter and producer of the Max documentary “Surveilled.”

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Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Cheyna Roth, and Ethan Oberman.

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