Will Tesla Survive Elon Musk?
29:54 Share

This is a message from sponsor Intuit TurboTax. Taxes was getting frustrated by your forms. Now, Taxes is uploading your forms with a snap and a TurboTax expert will do your taxes for you. One who's backed by the latest tech, which cross-checks millions of data points for absolute accuracy. All of which makes it easy for you to get the most money back, guaranteed.

Get an expert now at TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax Live Full Service. See guaranteed details at TurboTax.com slash guarantees.

If you've heard that sound from Babbel before, I bet you do. Babbel is the science-backed language learning app that actually works. With quick 10-minute lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts, Babbel gets you on your way to speaking a new language in just a few weeks. With over 16 million subscriptions sold and a 20-day money-back guarantee, just start speaking another language with Babbel. Right now, up to 55% off your Babbel subscription at

Hey, everyone. Just a quick heads up that there is some swearing in this episode. Okay, here's the show. Over the course of two weeks, beginning in late January, a woman named Lucy Grace Nelson vandalized a Tesla dealership in Loveland, Colorado. She started by putting a Molotov cocktail near a Cybertruck.

It didn't injure anyone, but it did catch fire. Prantu Verma covers tech for The Washington Post, and he found Nelson's story in court records. She then came back another time to spray paint the word Nazi in black under the dealership's entrance sign. She then came back again to spray paint the words fuck Musk in

onto the dealership entrance doors. And another time, she brought four Smirnoff ice bottles filled with gasoline and threw those into the Tesla dealership lot as they caught fire. So far, we don't know if Nelson has any connection to Tesla, government workers who've been fired, or if she was just furious at Elon Musk.

Officials from the Department of Justice and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms are investigating. So what we can surmise currently at the moment is that this is part of a wave of rising anger Elon has kind of engendered into people since he's become Trump's probably most known and controversial backer. How many other Lucys are out there?

It's hard to tell, but we took a stab, my colleague Trisha Tadani and I, last week and looked at the court cases and the local media reports and the police reports across the country. And we found at least more than a dozen, right around a dozen, if not more, of these instances of violent or destructive acts of vandalism. Acts of vandalism aimed squarely at Tesla and Elon Musk.

Separate from the peaceful protests that we see happening, I want to be very clear. These were instances that were separate from that and they were very specifically we filtered for an act of destruction or some sort of violence of some kind.

In Salem, a man is facing federal charges after investigators connected him to two separate incidents at a Tesla dealership. Police say he threw Molotov cocktails and shot up the building. Employees at this Tesla service center in Dedham reported finding three vandalized vehicles when they showed up for work. Police say two Cybertrucks were spray painted and each had all four tires slashed. In suburban Seattle, police say six vehicles were tagged at a Tesla dealership.

One of them was a Cybertruck that was just at the dealership for maintenance. It was spray painted and tagged. A lot of people believe those incidents are protests against Elon Musk and his work with the Department of Government Efficiency. Elon Musk is no stranger to protests. In the past year, Tesla's Gigafactory in Germany was targeted not once but twice by far left groups. And Musk himself has been the target of many protests.

But this time feels different. The fact that now, since January 20, since Inauguration Day, we've seen more than a dozen at least violent or destructive acts on not gigafactories, but like dealerships where normal people work. People who are sales managers and store managers or supercharging stations that are in, you know, shopping centers or on individual cars themselves.

You know, this level is something that we have not necessarily seen before. Today on the show, the Tesla protests are gaining momentum and pushback. From demonstrations to scattered violence to a plunging stock price. Will any of this stop Elon Musk? I'm Lizzie O'Leary, and you're listening to What Next TBD, a show about technology, power, and how the future will be determined. Stick around. Are your ulcerative colitis symptoms proving difficult to manage?

Tremphia, Gacelcomab, can help you manage the cycle of UC symptoms. At one year, many patients taking Tremphia achieved clinical remission, and some patients also achieved endoscopic remission. Individual results may vary. Tremphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections may occur.

Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and TB. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Ask your doctor if Tramfiya can help you manage the cycle of UC symptoms. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tramfiyradio.com.

If you've always had a curiosity and fascination with technology and the minds behind it that are actively shaping our future, tune in to Tech Unheard. Arm, an innovative tech leader, is a

is partnering with NPM to bring you a podcast series that lets you listen in on one-on-one conversations with industry leaders as they discuss everything from the potential of artificial general intelligence to keynote nerves. Hosted by Arm's CEO, Rene Haas, Tech Unheard explores the drivers behind each leader's path and analyzes the most pressing trends in their space, all while sharing a few entertaining anecdotes of success and failure along the way.

In the first Tech Unheard podcast, Renee speaks with Jensen Wong, the CEO of NVIDIA, and they dive into Jensen's journey, the future of AI, and how NVIDIA's unique culture of relentless innovation and ambition continues to push the boundaries of technology. Tech Unheard allows you to listen in on technology's most inspiring leaders in a totally unscripted way. Tune in to Tech Unheard from ARM and NPM, wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's back up and talk a little bit about kind of the state of Tesla as a company since Elon Musk got involved with the so-called Department of Government Efficiency. Like, how's the company doing? You know, if you look at its share price, not well. Since Inauguration Day up until maybe Monday or Tuesday of this week, the share price has dropped about 35 percent, if not more. Wow.

That's pretty substantial. In Germany, figures released last Wednesday indicate that in February of 2025, Germans bought 76% less Teslas than they did the same year prior. We're also seeing in 2024, you know, at the tail end of 2024, the company had their first annual sales drop in over a decade. And so you could see

considerably say that the company is entering a period of turmoil that is unknown to them, you know, in recent history. I think one of the hard things to parse out in terms of these protests and the acts of vandalism and violence is like,

How they all relate to one another, right? Are these people who are coming out, exercising their constitutional right to stand there, hold a sign, say what they want? Are things coordinated? Are they people who are angry? Like, do you have any sense how those different intersecting storylines come together?

So let's separate these into two buckets. There's the destructive violence and vandalism that we were showing in our story that we found more than a dozen of. We did not find any reporting to indicate any coordination amongst these individuals. They represented individual people, individually angry within their specific world and in their own specific communities.

The peaceful protests that are also happening... That far outnumber the violence. Far outnumber the violence. The peaceful protests that are happening, there are a few groups that are...

coordinating them in various cities or helping do these. And these are groups that, if I'm not mistaken, have also helped coordinate the Women's March and other marches of activism. And so it's actually notable that this is the type of protests that they are finding is gaining hold.

But Elon would like to say that there is some nefarious plan, that there's some coordination between all of these activist groups. And you actually saw the day that our story posted, you know, a few hours before that morning, he had claimed that the fundraising platform ActBlue was somehow involved in coordinating these types of conversations.

kind of protests. And our reporting does not indicate that. You know, this is a fundraising platform. And ActBlue very clearly says they don't necessarily direct funds. They just simply are collecting funds. What are the people, whether they're dealers or private owners whose cars are, you know, being vandalized or have had, in my neighborhood, poop put on them, you know, how they feel about all this?

So we tried to talk to a few people and the people that would talk to us, you know, were people that owned cars that were subjects of vandalism. And some people felt like they were being punished for vandalism.

Elon does, rightfully or unrightfully so. They are kind of the most visible kind of ambassadors of the brand at the moment when they drive cars like the Cybertruck. And so we've talked to some we've talked to some dealer vehicle owners that are angry that they are the subject of this type of vandalism.

And we've talked to others that are very scared at this type of vandalism. And we talked to others that, you know, have buyer's remorse and now are really upset about being associated with this brand. Because, you know, if you remember a few years ago, buying a Tesla was a sign of environmental consciousness, right?

And now overnight, it's become a sign of being cozy to the far right. And so you're feeling some people have whiplash, you know, in terms of now driving these cars and being the subject of these kinds of protests and ire of people. It's an overused word these days, but Tesla's brand is truly at a crossroads. And yeah, some of that is because the electric vehicle market is shifting. But most of it is because of Elon Musk.

So far, institutional investors are still holding on to their Tesla stock. But shareholder activist campaigns aimed at companies like Vanguard and BlackRock are urging them to sell. On Wednesday, analysts at J.P. Morgan slashed their forecast for Tesla delivery estimates. And then they said this.

We struggle to think of anything analogous in the history of the automotive industry in which a brand has lost so much value so quickly.

The idea of Tesla is so intimately wrapped up in the identity of Elon Musk, right? It's a very brand. So it's a it's a founder associated brand in a way that many are not. Honda is not. I could forfeit. Many people don't know who the who the founder or the CEO of Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi are.

Tesla is a completely different animal in that sense. And so they have the misfortune of having to be so closely tied to somebody that's so politically polarizing. And, you know,

We have our own polling to indicate that popularity for Elon Musk is plummeting, right? And there are specific reasons that we see the plummet. There is the unpopularity of what he's doing with the federal government through his U.S. Doge service. There's also his gesticulations that people call Nazi-style salutes, his support for far-right parties in Germany that are labeled as extremist.

You know, these are, you know, his coziness with Millet in Argentina. Like there is a personality shift in what we see and experience of Elon Musk that is very deeply tied now with the right wing and beyond the right wing, the far right. And so when you have the popularity of a founder plummeting and then a car brand so deeply tied to the identity of Elon Musk, it's

It's got investors very much worried. You know, one investor that I talked to for our story, you know, he himself is an Elon Musk critic, but he said the best thing that Tesla could do at the moment for its brand is to get rid of Elon Musk as its leader and bring in somebody that is not at all this politically powerful.

Wow. Which is doubly interesting because Tesla as a brand does not really have a succession plan. No. It's like Elon or bust. It's Elon or bust. It is the empire of Elon.

It's also the source of most of his wealth. Yes, Elon Musk is the richest man in the world. And even without Tesla, his holdings in SpaceX alone are worth nearly $150 billion. But still, this matters. You know, it is also the chief reason for Elon Musk's wealth. Um,

How much have the protests, the stock slump, the vibes, do we know how much they've affected his personal financial empire? You know, his personal empire, according to reports and estimates, have suffered by possibly over $100 billion, right? It's a massive number and sometimes swings as much as $29 billion in a day. When we come back, Trump tries to bolster Tesla's image.

Your data is like gold to hackers. They're selling your passwords, bank details, and private messages. McAfee helps stop them. SecureVPN keeps your online activity private. AI-powered text scam detector spots phishing attempts instantly. And with award-winning antivirus, you get top-tier hacker protection. Plus, you'll get up to $2 million in identity theft coverage, all for just $39.99 for your first year. Visit McAfee.com. Cancel anytime. Terms apply.

I was never really a runner. The way I see running is a gift, especially when you have stage four cancer. I'm Anne. I'm running the Boston Marathon presented by Bank of America. I run for Dana-Farber Cancer Institute to give people like me a chance to thrive in life, even with cancer.

Join Bank of America in helping Anne's cause. Give if you can at bfa.com slash support Anne. What would you like the power to do? References to charitable organizations is not an endorsement by Bank of America Corporation. Copyright 2025.

Hi, this is Javon, your Blinds.com design consultant. Oh, wow. A real person. Yep. I'm here to help with everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to... Well, I've got a complicated project. No problem. I can even help schedule a professional measure and install. We can also send you samples fast and free. Hmm, I just might have to do more. Whatever you need. So the first room we're looking at is for... Shop Blinds.com now and save up to 45% site-wide. Blinds.com. Rules and restrictions may apply. Okay.

You know, one of the things that is so interesting about this story is that for all of the turmoil at Tesla and for the protests and the vandalism, it is also hard not to overstate like how much of a boon it is for Elon Musk to be so close to President Trump.

with another audience. And so it's like, how do you how do you figure that part out? Because on the one hand, the stock is plummeting. On the other, you have the most powerful person in the world being like, here I am with Elon. His personal calculations will be his personal calculations. You know,

I believe either Tuesday or Monday or Tuesday of this week, you know, Elon went on Fox Business with Kudlow. I mean, how are you running your other businesses? With great difficulty. Yeah, I mean. But there's no turning back, you're saying. I'm just here trying to make government more efficient. There was a moment in which I remember my colleague, Tricia Daddani, pointed out to me

where it looked like Elon was nearly in tears because he was for the first time acknowledging the stress of running Tesla and running SpaceX and also being so intimately involved in what the Trump administration is doing in the federal government. And, you know, the next question that we kind of now have is how long will Elon stay at the Doge service?

How long can he financially afford to rack up this political kind of anger? And at what point, if ever, will he go back or will he be welcomed back to his companies, you know, in a warm way? He owns them. He obviously can do what he wants with them. But that is the question, right? Like that is the next beat in this story is figuring out at what point it becomes too untenable for

to his personal wealth to do what he continues to do. On Tuesday, the Trump-Elon alliance was on full display, with the president hosting a Tesla showcase on the White House lawn. He essentially ran an ad for the company. That's beautiful. This is a different panel than I've had. Everything's computer. That's beautiful. Wow.

He even said he was going to buy his own Tesla, encouraging other Americans to do the same. This is what it means to be in Trump's good graces at the moment. Yeah. This transactional way, you know, like there's a few things here that that that are unprecedented with what we saw on Tuesday. It was a commercial.

I mean, no buts about it. It was a commercial, right? I remember I believe there was a photojournalist either at Getty or elsewhere that took an amazing shot of the notes that President Trump had in his hand. And they basically outlined the price points for the various Teslas that

that are on the floor at the White House. It was written in Sharpie. Written in his Sharpie. And I mean, this is not, you know, people were making that, oh, Biden had electric vehicles, you know, on the White House lawn. Yeah, he actually did, too. But the level of commerciality of Tuesday's kind of event was something that was remarkable and kind of unprecedented that we've ever seen in

And it is an open question, right? Because, you know, shortly after that, you saw Sean Hannity say on X, I'm buying my Tesla. I'm in. You saw other people on the right wing say, I'm buying a Tesla. I'm in. I'm supporting Elon. The question is, you know, how much of this surge on the right

Because what is basically telling us is that Tesla has now become a political symbol, right? More so than it's ever been. It's a lightning rod. It now is a manifestation of what you believe. And so the sales figures in the next month or two are going to be really important for us to see, like,

What helps here? Does gaining on the right wing outweigh the losses from the environmentally conscious left? And I think that that's going to be very interesting for us to see what happens here. You know, what you're describing is sort of the carrot. The stick would be the president saying he would label Tesla protesters as domestic terrorists and

theoretically he could direct the justice department to you know charge the violence against tesla dealerships under terrorism statutes but it's not clear to me that that would hold up in court at all it is not clear to me that it would hold up in court at all and also it is an over characterization of what i think is is happening at the moment um

You know, our piece very specifically focused and pointed out that, yes, there are most certainly instance of destruction or vandalism. That also to be said, there were several protests this weekend alone where hundreds of people came out in places like New York City and I believe Portland and I believe in other places in the Midwest. And, you know, you don't see the instances of vandalism or anything. You see a peaceful protest taking place.

And so but you also see Speaker Mike Johnson this morning saying that he's going to, you know, launch an act, you know, launch investigations into these instances of domestic terrorism. And so, again, it's it's a small population that has gone violent, but it it brings a politically potent kind of, you know, rallying cry for people on the right wing.

But it's so interesting to try to figure out, like, OK, so spin that out. Is that going to have a chilling effect on protests or might it potentially just lead to more protests, lead to more people saying, no, I'm going to exercise my constitutionally protected right here? There isn't an indication right now that we see a chilling effect.

You know, if the arrests start happening, I think that's what we would have to really see. You know, if we start seeing people get you know, we saw a few people get arrested over the weekend in New York City, but they weren't under a terrorism statute. But if we do start seeing federal law enforcement show up at these, you know, at these protests, then

That will be a significant escalation that could potentially have a chilling effect. We haven't seen that yet. But again, we also have not seen a complete stop. The activists are still planning protests. Right. People are still saying that they they are not for what Elon stands for and they're willing to go out and say that peacefully in the Tesla dealerships.

At the same time, local law enforcement are very, you know, aware that these are now places that have become kind of hotbeds. And so you see high police presences at these places. And so, you know, you have all the moments that are potentially ripe for a powder keg, no doubt. Reading your reporting and thinking about this story, I was flashing back to my own time in Washington covering the Treasury Department and the White House, and I covered the

the federal bailout of General Motors and Chrysler and the, you know, the partial nationalization of those companies. And on the one hand, this is not the same thing. On the other hand, I think you could maybe argue that this is a different kind of bailout.

This is potentially a PR bailout, right? Like this is a this is an individual, Elon, who is getting the backing of Trump for both improving the financial performance and the reputational image that Trump wants to bolster.

for somebody that is one of his closest backers. And it becomes even more interesting, as The New York Times reported, I believe, you know, late Tuesday night of Elon Musk's potential contribution of upwards of $100 million to

to President Trump's political operation. You know, I think that that is the timing of that is remarkable, right? The timing of that story breaking is remarkable. We obviously can't, you know, ascribe any sort of quid pro quo at the moment, but that is certainly something that has to be taken into context here, right? Like you have the world's richest man with arguably the world's most powerful leader in

And they are now cozy in a way that I've you know, I think none of us have really ever seen in such a brazen way before. And so it kind of shifts kind of the balance of what is expected from the United States government and how much it's actually open for business. Pranav Verma, thank you for your reporting and for coming on. Thanks so much for having me.

Prantu Verma is a tech reporter at The Washington Post. And that is it for our show today. What Next TBD is produced by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort. Our show is edited by Rob Gunther. Slate is led by Hilary Fry, and TBD is part of the larger What Next family. And if you're looking for another Slate show to listen to, check out tomorrow's Slate Money, where they discuss the expanding empire of Mr. Beast.

And if you like what you heard, the number one way to support our independent journalism is to join Slate Plus. You get all your Slate podcasts ad-free, including this one, and you will never hit a paywall on the Slate site. All right, we will be back on Sunday with another episode. I'm Lizzie O'Leary. Thanks for listening. Hear that?

I'm Leon Nafok, and I'm the host of Slow Burn Watergate. Before I started working on this show, I was a

Everything I knew about Watergate came from the movie All the President's Men. Do you remember how it ends? Woodward and Bernstein are sitting with their typewriters, clacking away. And then there's this rapid montage of newspaper stories. About campaign aides and White House officials getting convicted of crimes. About audio tapes coming out that prove Nixon's involvement in the cover-up. The last story we see is, Nixon resigns. It takes a little over a minute in the movie. In real life, it took about two years.

Five men were arrested early Saturday while trying to install eavesdropping equipment. It's known as the Watergate incident. What was it like to experience those two years in real time? What were people thinking and feeling as the break-in at Democratic Party headquarters went from a weird little caper to a constitutional crisis that brought down the president? The downfall of Richard Nixon was stranger, wilder, and more exciting than you can imagine. Over the course of eight episodes, this show is going to capture what it was like to live through the greatest political scandal of the 20th century.

With today's headlines once again full of corruption, collusion, and dirty tricks, it's time for another look at the gate that started it all. Subscribe to Slow Burn now, wherever you get your podcasts.