#71: Big Tech Earnings and the AI Revolution
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Oh, dear, listeners were starting this one .

strong IT seems like basotho every other major CEO I know is really scared of a trm presidency.

This interesting thing is happening here in the last few weeks of the election where you see different, effectively different creators bringing their cults like the .

Better ground. Was one b you are going to her position IT of the .

worst things. I, so what was your?

What was your time? Like what you do?

I, T, A, M, M.

of course. SHE did.

Those were the days, like, get children to do labor for free for you. I guess mr. Beast does that now?

Yeah, gonna is not just youtube.

的 太太 败。

I'm happy I can make .

you laugh just totally. We on, we started run. H doesn't IT go like five, four, three to. Anyway, dave, you always make me laugh. But welcome everyone to more or less. I have been looking forward to this for the last at least six hours because my iphone has finally gone to shit. So dive, which of the new iphone should I?

Man, this is a media question.

It's not clear actually. I was just telling bit last night.

Yeah, I know you have an opinion.

I'm is going back to my iphone fifteen. The many I went and found my mini last night because i'm i'm so frustrated.

Is that the S, E?

I love the S, I look back of them still.

yeah. The the mini or the S, C, there. There's one before the S C. right? It's the mini.

I think it's too old now. I think you can. I think you need the S A really. yeah. I mean, I I ever start tell .

them why they've tell them why you're thinking .

of voting back the fifteen. I don't this one IT gets so hot IT burns my hand a lot, oh no and says .

a lot about dave screen time too.

No IT like it'll be sitting on my desk and i'm not even using IT in a tot.

Sub three, sub three .

actually make a future that heat up your phones. You put IT down. That's like the real the real control like imagine if they just made that start. You know you could do here about this. It's either that or is create mood called accelerated battery drain so that you only want to use your phone for two hours that or just dump the battery right in the heat to make your hand now want to hold IT and then you run out.

And then maybe that's what already doing. Maybe they have really thought of that.

I think people are so addicted that would become like a market for like a phone glove. And that would be a new product category like A R iron, curling iron glove. I like, yeah exactly.

Oh, dear listeners, we're starting this one strong.

The on board day. I will like luck. This user wants to limber screen time, we and you like. And then apple be confused about why the battery do to make bigger batteries.

What if it's like hot potato where you don't know if you're bad is gonna dump s so you just have to always go really fast at what you're doing because like in an instinct of a how about this?

There could be a feature which is called the random reboot. So I basically like a beauty in your phone. You might just fucking like blue screens of death itself. Everyone's a while.

yeah. He solved IT as .

a feature guys I love.

Once again, we are trying to come up with a third ways in ourselves of tech diction when the answer is, we just win ourselves of tech diction.

Yeah.

just put the phone down. Targe need twenty one days.

We all know, you know, i'm very competitive with myself and everyone. And so because I like holding myself to this, like screen time lowering down, I definitely worry about picking up my phone if I don't need to.

So, but OK, well, just get phone.

yeah. So dave, so this is none of what was just said is relevant to anyone. But now what will be relevant because, dave, other people out there wondering question to so that sounds like you're not necessarily the sixteen upgrade, not necessarily pushing.

It's if he look the camera, if IT weren't for the camera, I would stick with the fifteen.

But that how I always works. You are only upgrading for the camera, even I upgraded for the camera.

And the the sixteen also the sixteen has no cases .

and might be the there's .

no cases like the the case stuff. It's like theyve cut all of the good cases. They don't make good cases ford anymore. It's it's a very strange product in this way. There is a bunch of details that are just missing.

interesting. okay.

But do you have some narrative like why this is great? This is him .

to genius .

the last episode.

Do you like how our editors called you an apple apologist?

Yeah man, it's like this one. They are going to tittle the apple apologist, which went backwards fifteen.

We're gassion.

How about an APP that just you have to share your screen time with your friends and summary how you spend your .

time download OPPO. So i'm using this up called OPPO O P L. I think this is actually the best screen time APP for adults.

And there doing a lot of really smart things. I actually they're making IT Better. I've been a user of IT for about a year, and when they first started off, IT was very basic.

IT would just block the screen. It's getting smarter. now. IT does more sophisticated like A I kind of based blocking of different apps, you know.

And i've actually cut my screen time by an other using this APP or last month. So i'm actually like pretty into IT. And sam IT has a leader board, so if you get on IT.

we couldn't compete, right? How about IT APP that on how your iphone and takes all the instrument pictures and makes up a that will make you stop using your phone.

will make you stop .

using your phone is.

okay. Yeah some great product eh.

yes. What's happening in the news this week?

Yeah, no, there's a lot of news this week, guys. So okay, but thank you. So I don't actually know what i'm going to do. Do I get to fifteen?

Do I I mean, I am .

fifteen. Get little mini and just Carry that around and plug in the screen.

Just just get the new phone. It's great. In a lot of ways. It'll be fine. Yeah.

i'll just my skin. okay. Well, D O, i'm sure theyll .

fix with software sooner later.

IT is an exciting week. guys. I always get excited about learning season on this pod because you know i'm a business report or so four times a year. Um but we have had obviously big tech earnings are under extra pressure at the because everyone wants to show me the money AI story as all these companies are spending the money on A I story. And um so sort of we got we have google, microsoft that reported .

so far matter probably good I .

didn't realized .

we .

were at is matter .

on its .

way to being the biggest company of all time.

not today really where they beat on money and missed on users really .

and a huge loss for labs really. You know, I knew this was going to happen. I've got to say.

well, listen to this. So total revenue forty eight, five, eight, nine billion.

我 下一个 facebook come you .

this is matter matter， this is matter. And family of apps is is basically no forty one, forty two of that. Others like four hundred k and .

four sweeter .

in seventy million is reality labs revenue, which is down significantly year over year IT was a billion in q four, four, forty and q one, three, fifty and q two. So then I was like referring to our last episode about vision pro verses, sort of like all of VR of meta is doing. And I did like a quick tabulation because the vision is so much more expensive, right? It's like thirty five hundred dollars. And even if with five hundred thousand devices, that's like we wanted to have billion. So interesting .

we about last weeks episode .

try that the business i'm just saying the business like we have this question like is matter winning the VR war and your apples actually making a lot .

they show were twenty five thirty million of these things to like three hundred thousand for apple. Let's not try to .

resolve this one. I mean, there's the scale and then then there's like the reviews i'm just saying.

telling it's a little apples, oranges, ras's more for apple, for meta would be dollars spent per minute used right where apple will crush matter because everyone was thirty five hundred years for five minute for one minute. Now I I do maintain that if you want to say cost per minute of use, that the the vision pro is probably the most expensive device in the history.

The world. Yeah, maybe we we visit this topic at year end and we could do like a laid along on the table episode, but back to a earning so google, really strong. Google cloud growth jumped up to like thirty something as percent growth, which is significantly higher um then some of its peers who are albeit smaller um very much driven by cloud adoption with A I tools um microsoft strong as well.

Let's pull up those numbers. What same do you want? Do you just pull up the men and number as you wanted? Go through those?

Not particularly, but they make more money. They just missed on users and they lose a lot of money VR.

They miss on expectation, sam, because i'm seeing the da. They are calling the daily active people now yeah.

that's been for about a decade.

That's ridiculous, up five percent. So do they just miss on expectations? I think so .

that's my understanding. But again, it's just the numbers are so massing. But I here the basic thing, I think the story that is interesting, tech companies think about stuff like making money for meta is like a totally A I line, right? And so the things you can do harvest A I wins, I think just crash the foreseeable future, acquiring users, things like that, that's actually harder, right? Uh, it's not like mediately an A I pay off.

And so I just suspect what you're going to see in a lot of these companies is the places where they can directly make money from A I, which Better way not many companies can, the ones they can or crash IT people well until someone proves otherwise um keep spending more money on the stuff, right. And so think the club providers will be fine um for a while um and that's kind of the story of the next few quarters, right? Is this is going to be I I think that the idea is some product revolution coming. Uh, i'm sceptical love, but you know not out some customer service workers shape not shape making you but a little Better. You you know pump in some cloud pump s some ads that's like butter .

yeah I no question.

So also in the point, microsoft had very strong quarter for asha, its cloud company, and google had the headline that at twenty five percent of the code written at the company is originated with A I and then checked by people. What did you guys make that?

I mean, this is kind of the point that I was making for a few pods that the AI software engineering revolution is super real. And I think not that gene is not going back in the bottle. And to see google actually admit that over twenty five percent um of the code they're writing .

there and they are bragging about IT .

yeah is a pretty big deal. Um I think IT just goes to show that this c changes here and it's real. I like this analogy. Gy, that um you know when the graphic tennis racket showed up, a boris becker, uh said he was going to try to keep beating everybody with the wooden racket and he just lost badly. Um and finally to switch to graphic.

And this is software engineering today, right? Like there's no software engineer in the valley that isn't is going to give up the uh A I software r engineering tools. Uh, it's just this is the future now. And you know here we are .

interesting. You look like get the reality is as most software is automatically code by lines of code was automatically generated anyway and has been forever like you do like rails new project, and you get like thousands of lines are like free tempo ze code and then use put a sprinkling .

on top and what is open source but you know everything, you including all these tools.

you're adding your project. No, and tech company trust you about that stuff out because it's like blow that you don't need close you down. So like i'm being a little bit for spicious, but the idea like auto co generation is not new. It's obviously getting Better. There are amazing experience i'll give you.

You know what's been going on with cursor and saw IT in the last six months is pretty new.

Can you explain those to folks?

Yeah you know ever sense the I think you can actually trace the the true moment that the change happened to the cloud on IT anthropic s cloud mode called on IT three point five.

That was the real moment when things I think IT was the inflection moment where suddenly uh the code that this model can generate was dramatically Better than any prior model um that anybody had been using to the point where you could actually begin depend on IT um and sample point is right, you know you're getting a lot of things. You're not I think if you don't know what you're doing and I think google's point that we're hey, we're reviewing all of this then we're checking IT in is a really real thing. Um but the reality is in the last I I don't I have to go back and look at what data was. But it's within the last six months, the change in the ability of these models to generate really powerful, really usable code to make the engineer move extremely fast. Just radical changed.

And the two companies you mentioned, dave, i'm not familiar with the ones you just mentioned. Who are those two companies?

You know, anthropic.

no doubt I know. And curse, curse r and what .

was everyone? Uh, cursor is the primary one. IT started off in microsoft visual studio code. There were a bunch of plugging uh that people were referring to as copilot. Um there were good there were github plugins that you could plug into visual studio code. And IT was a pretty difficult workflow for the first year.

So maybe first year and a half um cursor is actually a uh a branch of visual studio code that this wonderful team um I haven't met him i'd love to uh from M I T uh you know took visual studio code and natively built in all of these A I engineering uh the eyes really into the tool itself and just made IT dramatically easier to use, not just saw IT, but any A I uh you know L L M. So you can actually plug in, open the eye, you can plug in, you know any elm that you want into the tall and then use IT as like a native part of your engineering flow. And because of that, IT makes IT really easy to generate a lot of code very quickly in the same interface you're used to using. Um and you're just moving, I would argue, at least ten times faster um then you were three months ago.

So I really interesting experience this week missing was up so I do this thing. I'm really into no book I am which is google thing and I basically wait.

But media has an open source competitor.

I haven't that yes but I I did is I basically pold I did google take out take out that google outcomes like an absolute favorite google application for explain that and I pull out all of the firm letters we had written back to twenty fifteen um into a flat file and then we should comes out of the things like a dot and box file and then I upload into into the bc arms I would like be like, hey, what did the firm think about blab law who did die and like that gives me it's awesome.

Here is the point of I didn't very similar to this about six months ago and like what I did is I I route um some scripts, some job uh to just basically do the extraction and like turn this you know this m box thing to the weird format into like a Normal file that I want a text file this time. Talk about the progress um I didn't even do that. I literally just went and I give IT OpenAI I shadow red here.

I went to OpenAI and I said, hey, I have an m box file. Can I just give IT to you and can you pull out the following structure fuel and return to me this way? I was like, sure.

So I didn't even like ron script. I didn't code shit right? A little little handed IT to an L.

M. And IT handed me back exactly the file I wanted in the front. Now, this is not rock and science.

This is like very, very basic ript. But I was very like I did for icon ological. I did a bunch of things that I wanted really well. So the the interesting things that yeah for a while we're going to be in this code generation faster coding.

Help me write the script for a while but like I think is not that far away from like these things being like even much more integrated like do that I don't want to think about IT and then over something like I think you know thinking and writing uh as a human become your record skills again, I think i'm really i'm really excited about this idea that that again, i'm not in the camp. I think like l ams are some like revolution in my humanity. But I do think that is just another step in terms of connecting like pure thought to outcomes for humans. And it's pretty cool that like this stuff, australia really work.

So yeah um that reminded .

me said like my favorite current AI uses are really boring and stupid but save me a lot of time like I wanted to have a document that listed every day in december on the left hand side and I sort of know how to do that in a spread sheet, but I don't know how to do that in a google dark and i'm sure this way to do IT google dark but is actually really easy and A I you just save give me a list of all the dates and december starting at this date and that's like to that's a bad example because most people are rolling their eye. But IT actually, I think, is a good example in that IT was like IT was very quick and IT was very easy. And or that .

i've had doing the whole like here generate for seven hundred, one hundred basic algebra problems, like just go to then just handing them to him. Do this, right?

So what are you do to your son?

Yeah.

back to. Welcome to our household. We have .

very different households.

But okay, so actually what this means for the big tech company is so IT. Clearly, as we've saying, there are major ways for the big guys to make lots of money in A I both in cloud services and making certain things data, german things more efficient. Um IT is good though we are also open to data and now there is more data to support that point.

On a related note, and actually, i'm kind of curious like if you think back to madam, you think to the earnings report a little bit around users, how important do you think like user and user growth is for these companies? And especially method of like are we just at the point where like once you reach two billion, three billion, like no one cares because I was i've been wondering this because you know meta and these others still face a lot of competition and you think of about tiktok um for as long as it's here and so far. So I I actually curious what you all think like is that definite matters?

What matters? I actually hadn't .

thought of this question. I think it's an interesting question.

Number of users where you really care about is there three numbers? Is the users the matter time per user and the matter money you can make permanent of user, right? Like that's like the equation .

ah is IT number? Is that is that money per user or minute of user?

Yes, minute of user. So but it's just like this, just a simple multiple cation problem between those three .

very much and say i'm you're getting IT wrong. It's minute of people.

Oh yeah.

sorry.

don't call them users. How how users who .

are you to call the users, how I form, not the drug business, they are not.

It's like daily active pushers.

It's just it's a very simple equation. And the reality is of those three numbers, number of people amount of time each person spends and in money per minute, the hardest one is clearly going to be the first the number of people. Yeah, right. This is like there's it's not it's just simple math, like there are twenty four hours in a day. You can chip into that with, you know, you remove some sleep, you know, whatever is is going to be but the biggest, I mean that you just ask them, told in the number of people that have these things and like people die and the population doesn't grow, right? So unless that's going to figure out some plan to like get people to have more babies quickly, right, like people is always going to be the problem.

right? For anything at the digital vertie model, right? Like this is the dollars per minute is really about how many ads can you show them in a minute that they're using the platform.

Britt, that's that's a prel m way of thinking. I mean, I think the reality is, is like that the dollar the dollar per per minute is the thing as most flexible with these new tools, right? Because you get super targeted, which you can dramatically raise, you know is the amount of money you can make permanent um is all sorts of their fast. But I actually argue like add creative targeting like these are the places that L M S had by far of the most leverage in the moment or in so while hard and there are are a bunch of other macro o headwinds, right the company at the scale face, that's like the one if you ever saw modernization per minute going down, or the company like matter in the next few years, the real questions to answer, because like this is what they should be jamin out on, right? Where is the other two or much harder.

right? And I would have just argue that there are other business models beyond advertising like yes, meta, for instance, to continue to crush the dollar per minute ratio because that's that's the brand.

I just think the the l advertising and made like snap .

actually in their earnings announced, they have a small number in a smaller base. But like their subscription product is actually working. They have like, I mean, again, well.

I have to say crops, the nap every single quarter. Snap magically does the thing that they have terrible earnings, the stock tanks. And then solely, people started to think in my work again and increase back up.

And then they were earning tanks. And for the first time, they seem, you've inverted this. We're like, there was no creeping back up. And then they actually knows good learnings.

I know I was. I was surprised actually. I mean, I don't think twelve million people would pay for snap.

So they're all the .

way back up to left and half of the IPO right.

One of the most red stories in the information weekend of the past, whatever period has been a great deep dive into snap subscription product and how teens are using IT. And there's just a whole host of features like leaderboard, like features like seeing who your you know data around most frequent contacts. And we had this great anecdo, the reporter iron woo, that like someone who like, figured out someone was cheating on her because he had not to had slipped you know this boyfriend second most contacted person or something like that. So um that's .

worth the four dollars a month that's all mean.

I don't know the details but it's intense over there. So say I think that we'd let's stay in this user point for a second. I know day if you wanted you had a rebuttal. Yeah, look.

i'm going to take the opposite on this, which is I think I was gonna a snap two because it's clear that snap has decided the opposite, right? They decided that they are going to make a simplified version of the APP, that the APP has become too bloated and they want to go back to you, uh, Better, more simple experience. And so h.

Amin gave the guidance that this will hurt our numbers, but we don't care because where we want to you know go for a Better experience for the people that are our core user base. Um in trade off the the other way. And I was actually just trying to look up met as a number of minutes per user.

I can't find IT. It's not in the current it's not in the press release ah, it's not in the results. Uh, just I don't know if anyone over there has this actual number, but the last number I can find is thirty three minutes so you know meta is barely Better than a thirty minute TV show right now per day in terms of the attention that IT gather.

I think that's almost certainly only part of IT for what?

What do you mean? I think .

that's like I, I, I question that number. I think it's my tire.

What do you think IT is?

I, I, I would want to ask what about, but just guess what?

Sixty minutes in the U.

S. yeah. I I Better around an hour in the U. S.

Okay, fine. So they're like, no Better than the diplomats, right? There are .

basically the diplomats exit.

It's the way the way put that, dave, is there eight percent of human attention though every .

single day I thought you might be just yeah but still sam like that? Still like you? Okay, great. They're making a great TV series with this giant technology .

infrastructure that you watch every working single day for free and .

everyone watch fine, but it's still sixty minutes.

Also like are we really comparing snapp verse meat? I mean, one is a twenty billion dollar company.

One is no where i'm going with this is I don't think more users matters. I'm i'm actually taking your the other position on this jaws, which is you've already ready reach whatever half of the alive people of the earth, right and seems right. The cost to acquire the rest of the earth is like enormous travesty rial, you know, build out.

And so does that matter does that matter that they keep making Better, a Better show, right? That goes for two hours a day, right? And you know, does that for the users they already have? Like this is a reasonable question, right?

Oh yeah. I also know the reality is, in theory day, but dick, the U. S, globally complicated. If people are actually using meta products to three hours a day, regulators will lose their fucking mind.

Really, why.

like your talent, iphone heating entire .

points of their strategy. Their entire strategy is literally, what can I literally strap something to people's faces in order to get more of their attention?

No, that's such a cynical to take.

It's not cynical. It's the actual strategy i'm not beating cynical targeting .

is targeting is knowing you super well and bring exactly you.

I'm getting you to use the up way more.

No, I just need to be Better targeted.

Sam, do you use push notifications?

I bought your sica, a very cosh jacket.

Guys, we're really have to live and speak sadly. Don't these are shopping less bread? What's your point saying?

Like I don't I think yes, targeted advertising matters. But like to daves point, the addiction rate of people using meta products is what also matters. And they're doing everything they can to try to get you to use IT more and more and more. It's like literally.

they really are. I mean, i've got a yeah I think i've shared that as my .

this isn't cynical. This is just business like we're actually talking about the numbers, right? The numbers are how many users, how long can they use IT, how well can that attention to be moitie? Es, these are three numbers, right? Like and you can push number up on one of them.

Everyone pat themselves on the back.

Yes.

thank you that you you're all right in your own ways unique universe. But really like I think I ve shared on the pod as I have to play new orme's connections before I can go to instagram. But unfortunate i'm getting Better connections.

So that's less much faster. Um I like the end and since my instagram and facebook are kind of links because I cross post like the push alerts i'm getting from these apps to prod me to reengage have gone insane. It's like person I don't know has posted a new real do you want to check in at the clearly, the system doesn't know what to do with me.

So clearly their prime towards engagement. Um i'm not that doesn't have to be good or bad, but it's just sort of like a reality. And in some case.

my favorite yeah that yes.

yes.

Well, i'm a super, i'm a super, uh, a log outer where I just delete the APP when i've done posting.

i'm surprised. Do you do this?

By the way, he's done in for years. This is very old behavior.

I deeply I deeply appreciate, which is you talk about like optimization in great product management. I do this. But the part of the reason I can do this is because meta has made IT so unbelievably easy to download the APP and then get back into your account that like it's like barely friction and it's like hilarious because you think about like good product manager and whatever it's like like no like keeps the my device finger printed or whatever. So like all IT takes is the extra APP door and load and with face and lock is just like a slightly longer boot. 我 觉 we all know that matter。

Has a world class growth team, and that is another great example of that. But I think the it's a really interesting question. So back to this like sort of user point.

I mean, a lot of my question of how much IT matters I also think comes down to like expectations and signaling, right? And you see with all companies that, I mean, netflix stop sharing subscriber numbers, I think at some point, and they did IT many quarters ahead of a seeming plateau, but they just decided they wanted to be measured by a new set of metrics. And like the question is kind of is met a social media company anymore too.

because the media company is the .

media or is IT a hardware company? Or I mean.

the hardware serves what we're talking about.

IT does. And they would tell you they are connection company for what it's worth.

But it's it's like literally no different than it's literally no different than conchas putting the box in your living room. That's all that's all that is trying to do, right? Like they're developing hardware to increase Price.

We used have to return calm pass boxes.

Yeah no, no, I agree with that. But I I guess i'm just really interested what kind of financial metrics guide and shaping they are going to do around user going forward, right? And if they're going to and and they do this all the time by like drop IT, you know they don't report the single apps the same way they used to the report the family of apps, right? and.

Yes, but there is a straw. And if you guys remember, the more how twitter used to every single like quarter give different numbers, if you like. Now journalists love .

that investors.

it's all all that the entire point of doing this is to show give some back up quarter record and set expectation with wall street, right? And so in the end of the day, if company had perfect trust in the world and know like everyone, like all the report is like earnings and nothing else and known would care because of be like it's perfect, right? But like what you do is you can put the some of the inputs out there and then as the business evolves, you want to really slowly walk and evolve, like what IT is your disclosing, right, and show that you are in control and like you're making good decisions and show what they this is a whole like strategy to IT, right, like I E R to IT.

So IT all of all. But I won't be like a cherney thing. I think that would be pretty hard for meta of all companies to argue sooner than later. The number of people using their apps don't matter, right? IT might be daily, weekly, monthly, but like.

by the way, and this is not at all apples to apples.

but the three numbers at the top of their a list and staring at them, its family, daily active people, number one add impressions is number two and number three is the Price per ad and number four is revenue that's IT and then everything else is expenses. So it's like, you know like that's really all the matters.

That's the business.

Yeah yeah. But did you can see that youtube, uh, within google earnings actually now is a fifty billion dollar revenue generating company, which if you don't count, meet IT as a media company, makes youtube kind of the number one. And netflix now is is thirty seven billion at number two, which I I mean pretty far.

It's master youtube.

Youtube is a beast.

We all love you talk.

And what did we talk about? youtube? T, V, been like the catch off for all of the, you know cable Operators falling into the digital trap of youtube. I think I think IT continues to grow. I still but high on youtube, growing much more in the future.

absolutely. And it's definitely a like slog IT out because three years that thing was toiling and obscurity.

I did something into the fact that if you think about the apps that the I saw some articles about this week with people talking about, like how twitter is uncapable right, and how, and like I agree with this, like I still use twitter cost way, you know.

And like I will say the last couple weeks, for me, it's unusable.

but I do. why? Because of elan, I opened .

IT up in its elon or some other politically striding figure, just domine my whole feed, but said, what's your point about?

The point is that I think youtube is like there are again, like that just is very basic internet use cases like I want to watch a video, right? I like want to read a piece of text. Like he's incredibly bit so for all the innovation and like interface and all the type of stuff, like I just think humans are pretty simple, like we want to get there and get paid. The internet is pretty simple. You can like watch video on IT, you can read shit on IT like you can talk to people on IT, like they're just like it's just not that complicated, right? And so I just think we we had all the weeds of like all these things you can do with new experiences and like it's just get later, get paid in the upside of the closer to that consistently, just what just grow and grow, grow, grow, grow you know yeah that's why funny I was actually as of is jack in whole tech conference .

a while go what is what is x? Is x get yes.

I think your frameworks wrong. It's like what there's also is get entertained. I think that there's a massive there's a massive business and just entertainment.

Yeah it's just a little dopa mine trigger ing machine. Yeah like just know sit there in front .

of some pixel that wires that .

I am confused that what is x.

what is x?

It's just entertainment. No.

but is IT later paid him? It's neither.

It's just entertainment.

I mean, I think it's probably both.

Yeah probably is all of them actually?

Yeah, yes, kind of in some ways to think it's may be no, that's to think it's even lower level utility.

The the ones that are the biggest do all of IT, right? Like you can build a business?

no. yeah. And it's just like it's just a visual audio input, right? Is just like an I O, right. Much of anything else.

okay. Any other big tech topic before I moved to another topic. Earnings predictions up into the right? Yeah no, not all.

I mean but some up into the right. I mean A D text quarter. I mean people like I think generally economy I can works right now guys read its up .

twenty percent uh because they reported their first profitable quarter.

We've got seven more days of the economy working. What do things .

going to happen in seven days?

Totally unclear.

Just something.

Something will happen. The economy will be fine for a while. Men will see what happen.

You know what i'm excited about guys and say you've been traveling, so I have run this by you, but i'm excited for my boys to see an election .

night .

cover genius broadcast.

They they to I don't think we're gona get to a conclusion by the time markets go to bed.

No, no, just not a decision or a result, but just a broadcast. Because anything that brings journalism to my life so my boys understand what I do is exciting and be IT just can be like, I think there can be a lot of maps. There can be a lot of numbers. No, I got ta get to two seventy like I actually think it's sort of like second grade exact. They're the right age for IT.

Now whether the last election they were toppers yeah .

and I think they'll be visual and and mine I was like the reporters are going to go to the polls and they're gonna try and predict and there's a lot of good lessons because they're going to there's the decision of when to call a state right, which is is just statistics. But different networks make a different times. And unfortunately, I think it's also be an opportunity and like teaching, like fairness because there would be so much narrative around um the election being rigging tender ally that narrative and .

your kids focus on. I feel like I don't feel like ready for that. It's like i'm not ready to explain them that the only vote that matters is like twelve women in pensylvania.

No well, they already know about the electoral college. If they can just do the math and practice adding to two seventy and will be a successful tuesday night.

But um I agree with you though about the media literally just I suggest that you use youtube TV as you're just spoken about to do a multi screen view so you can see yeah fox, a cn and N D C, the C N.

whatever guys you could do a live election. I think for more or less where we just stream out that .

we can call IT ourselves, you know absolutely no one wants that. No one on the planet.

All set of the pool house. Second, a lion in the in the house like, oh my god, dadd is doing the election coverage. You that is also not the .

lesson I want our son to take from this. But anyway, I we'll see how about our report back. But I just think it'll be you know tuning in for some short period to this will be a good experience for them .

without getting into the actual politics. One of the things that I think is an interesting thing to talk about that relates this election, that the intersex, with things that we talk about on the pod, is how the creator economy, or same, you know, you've, I think a stupid pointed out, the cult of the creator is like the the thing right now.

And I think this interesting thing is happening here in the last few weeks of the election, where you see different, effectively different creators bringing their cults, like they're literally stump speech for the candidates to try to like, get these cults on board right. And like I I don't I didn't really notice IT until the last call IT seven days of what's been going on. But I find that to be like really fascinating that you you know the the battle ground wasn't fast. Facebook data or data models are all this kind of stuff from the last two elections like the battle ground was like and one of them has got you on the other one's got beyond say, like, you know, it's like stump speeches .

from antler and well.

Taylor's not stump ing though, right? I think that's what so interesting is like there are certain craters that are dumpling on behalf of the candidates and then other ones that are not. And what i'm the question i'm wondering is if we're going to look back on this election and say the candidate that had the best creators stumping and then therefore bringing their cults with them to the polls was the one that one like it's like an interesting question.

What is dumpling again.

just doing speeches.

Oh, okay, out of the .

campaign trail doing speeches.

carly class, like went door to door. I thought that was really interesting. Like they're actually even going to battle ground states what .

she's been doing that for a women three productive rights.

Have you ever done that? By the way, I am just by for that because that jobs, socks.

I sold girls out cookies.

IT is one of the worst things.

But you probably sold a lot of girl's.

Can I just a little hungry .

brag graph .

right now? You are talking to the girls got cookie sellar of the year ninety three, ninety, ninety three. Everybody here.

Well, so what was your, what was your tag? Like what you do? I sold rapping paper.

but I bet in M, L, M, so .

course he did.

Started giving my parents, and then everyone that worked with my parents, all the cookie sheet, and then everyone worked with them and all rok.

Fact one.

amazing.

Those are the days of we could just like, get children to do labor for free for you. I guess mr. R peace does that now?

Yeah gona just youtube .

child labor. It's like as IT is always back the most basic child detention but day by.

like your point, I feel like so I was that youtube and google when I was await, I actually worked on the election campaign and I was like obama, mccain and everyone called IT sort of the youtube election and then I think this could be known as like whatever the creator election or the social media. I feel like that is nobody .

y's talking about IT that way. But IT IT is what's going on.

I think, dave, to push you. I think I think now I need to embrace and stand deal has gone on. What I think is, is no one trusts anything really like and except for creators.

So basic what happened is think is actually one people don't haven't quite fully processed about other lm fake news, whatever stuff is. People thought that you are going to be like deceived to buy deep fakes right there. That totally the there is like the russian D V.

And that's actually now what happened what happened is has been enough of IT that everyone one's just decided that nothing is real or is too hard to figure out what's real and what's not real. And so there just like that or noise, right? And so as a result, there's no truth signal anything.

And so what you do is you default you like who are the personalities, who are the communities that I trust that i'm to follow them. And so actually think in some ways like the untold story of this election with especially the deep fix, is going to be basically how, because of just the mass of you can make manically anything to look like anything and say anything, it's kind of a school earth strategy for all media. And then what that causes the ultimate rise, the create because like, I don't trust, but like arno shorts and I going to seems reasonable and I like him so whatever I was .

just going to say arnal did IT this .

morning yeah like whatever he put out, i'm going like, right? And so I think that's dual thing going on. It's it's very fuda .

gram know paul grams, like the creator, one of the creators of silicon valley, right? He was pounding the battle drum this morning or last night.

I saw sam. Do you think that if arenal town's anaya and palgrave and carly class and beyond, they actually had their messages transformed into television ads and then the Harris campaign or trump campaign blast to those everywhere, they would have the same effect because it's still from the person? No.

no.

Because the whole thing is that are only relevant to their communities like no. And that's quite it's all about active in some ways, I think be really interesting new retro, right. But there could be an argument that, like, is that who are the creators that like pencil venia moms care about, right? Is IT like .

todd ge core shit? Yeah, this is the real thing or is IT.

But but to my .

point is that A I am shine. What is IT valery of farms?

Pellery of farms? If i'm coming on here is why wouldn't I take that creator, like some core message they put on organically on instagram, asked them permission to turn IT into a targeted instagram ad, and then like canvas that to those pennsylvanian moms with ad targeting?

Because britta, like sams point is right.

inherently trust. At last, people will inherently trust, even if you get the targeting right.

They wanted hear from their creator directly on the platform that they expect that creator to communicate them through, right? Like some craters are super, instagram centric, summer super, youtube centric, summer super.

Just say, if the Harris campaign boost there.

but have is not bad. But the second ad tags, fake news, like, I just more deep. Fake, who the fuck knows you? So IT has to be .

purely organ. So I think .

I agree with everything guys saying. I'm just really curious like what the data will show like I think we just really don't know what is going to convince people, right? I mean, I guess you can learn some things from the polls but you know I don't know like IT just seems .

I want something like data will believe, right? Like it's like the interesting moment or and is like it's just it's such a score earth of talking and half truths. And in look, the irony is and this is massively bended trump, right? Because is not in the obvious, not in the obvious way, the every like oh deep takes like this it's like just scorched the entire earth, is like what they say and do i'm not sure like too much.

I'll take i'll agree with you on that only because of if you look at elan is just a creator that has a huge cold audience yeah and elon decided to go stump, right? And so I am actually wondering if the number of stump speeches by creators will be the metric to look at.

So but here's the problem day with the ean thing is you an has no poll with the voters that matter in this right because ian's community, this is something about the right creators is you on um those people were going to play vote for trump anyway lately people that he speaks too like the question is, who are the cottage core suburban mom OK?

What about how about beyond says community? Does bion says community matter to kala?

That's probably more relevant probably .

I don't know. My question was like, should this strategy with beyon have been. Not just one time showing up in houston, but stumping for her three times you know, i'm not talking about five.

but like what you've made IT why not five? Why couldn't you go hang pennsylvany .

and just like have tea parties.

what what is your community life?

But the .

interesting question for me is like is bonce you know like who do pennsylvania ia moms listen to?

It's the guys that we don't I think it's the pencil they new dads what we don't know, we don't know .

is the question I remember being at this um I went to this big kabel you know this was two years ago. I think i've talked about on the pod before is like the seker meeting um lots of people from the democratic side um and they were talking about how one of the big pieces of infrastructure that they built with local newspapers literally print newspapers in pensylvania and all the important states because they needed to reach the exact people saying saying thirty five sixty five year old White women were the people who were going to decide the election in suburban pennsylvania and so they went built a local newspaper just for this purpose and so the question is, was that the right strategy or should they have been going after the creators that seems throwing out right like and I think that's like one of the more .

interesting questions right now. So just kind of wrap this up to because I think another huge topic this week was BIOS his decision to end the washington post pattern of endorsing presidial candidates. And um yeah .

in this context did IT matter.

Well, a couple thoughts when he I think you know he directly tied to the lack of trust, right? To just this point. With that, you are making sam around creators and trust. Did my view not that you asked.

but I did .

ask, look, you you could have a reasonable argument on either side about whether newspapers shouldn't dor's presidential canada, right? I mean, I think it's really reasonable to say that IT IT can compromise the um objectivity of the newsroom, right? Obviously news organza are very silent between their opinion and news but the reader doesn't know that reader doesn't particularly care, right? So you can argue that that does way more harm than good because it's not convincing anyone or being useful and it's um you know really saying the procession advice.

You can also argue um as many of my friends and who are editors have that actually the one part of a paper the owners should touch is the opinion pages and that they shouldn't interfere in terms of their business interest with news rooms. But in the sort of old school traditional way being a media propriety sort of, it's understandable in your sort of entitled right to shape in the opinion you could argue but way. What kind of upset me about this situation is that happened to eleven days before the election, and I actually fell to the la times doing the same thing a few days before. And so, you know, the criticism basis is face, which I think is fair criticism is that you know, IT seems like BIOS like, by the way, every other major CEO I know is really scared of a trm presidency.

only just wasn't paying attention.

no. Well, I think it's pose of those things. I think he wasn't paying attention and was similar like because if if you were going to make a very principle, like if you were going to have the I intellectual argument about IT, right, you'd have that over a longer before time and so on so forth. And yes, that no one believes that the washington poses a focus of jeff BIOS at the moment um but one .

percent of his wealth on a good day of course of course .

but then IT is an institution that a lot of people work out with jobs and so I mean it's three hundred .

two hundred million, thirty two hundred thousand I think this point one side, O K.

fear that out anyway. It's one of those things that I do think I think jeff makes them very smart points around declining trusted news, the importance of objectivity. And I think all of those are true at the same time. You know, we now have just so many examples of look guys I had.

Did you wish IT was earlier? Like you're magin a point about that.

It's twelve days before. Like like three years early. Like yeah and and also um here's just an antic dote that may be reading too mention to but you know three very well known taxi OS reach utt to me over the weekend with an ipad arguing against a trump presidency and what that would mean for attack well no named you know them all every every listen is possible and IT was IT was a very IT was IT was almost too academic, but IT was a very academic piece, right? So IT wasn't, I had IT IT wasn't IT was very academic about impact to the economy.

so so what?

And they said, well, you run IT and I said, absolutely. And then they said, cat, use our names and I said, I can write with out your names because the whole point of of an opinion piece is that you're putting your name behind. I'm not putting my name by hit.

Those are of my views. And IT was so interesting because what had happened was they each, they all had come together over the weekend and really passionate about this issue, and they had written IT together in the heat of the moment. And then they each consulted their government affairs teams.

You know, they can post anonymous in your forum as subscribers.

you should have reminded. Yes, I mind that I will actually and and I was just like, you know, the red and these guys are such big names, i'd like my I don't think they listen to anyone else in their firms, but they clearly listen to their government affairs teams on this topic so again, and i'm not trying to be conspirator oral about IT, but one can't deny that dynamic in the business world exists because we kind of see IT everywhere um have .

you guys taken a position on IT? Like will you be publishing something we are?

no. What's not? It's not our lane. It's not our lane.

And how many subscribers did they lose after they took that position?

Something like this one hundred and fifty thousand and washington?

No, like last week.

This week they last over.

not doing something .

ten percent for not taking aside.

Thank you. Thank you. New on scription laws. One b scription.

Well, my take on this, which again, no one asked for, but I do know a little bit about IT, I think look at all, it's horrible. And IT says that a lot of people feel very strongly about this issue. But if you peel back part in something else is going on here.

I think you're right. I think people are afraid. And I think that's actually one of the problems with this election, is that people are afraid.

And the other thing that's going on, which is very unique to the post, is that they they had a theyve had a surge of growth through subscriptions, driven by their opinion content around the model that bazas created. Democracy dies in darkness.

And so actually of the growth that they've had, which has not been tremendous and the businesses really struggling, uh, so much of that was actually a sort of drum beating ideology that they were pushing in their opinion pages that brought IT in a certain type. So they were uniquely acceptable to this kind of issue. And again, this is where BIOS maybe deliberate. He saying, yeah, they came in. That's not who I want to be part of this space.

But I also think it's a sign in again, we you know we know the instance outs of turn that the product is also really stuck in like a nonessential tear, right? Because I think what happened is there aren't two hundred and fifty thousand people who are willing to die on the sort of making statement, which by the way, doesn't particularly harm jeff visus at all. Um I think IT was headlines, whatever, where people had a lot of feelings and a lot of people goes, oh, when was the last time I log into washington or what what do I love in the washington post?

Yeah, I ve forgot that you might even subscribe with this. Oh, I am.

Let me even subscribe. So I think there are multiple things going on.

And honestly, honest jeff ably send that and email every subscribe and like, oh my god, I forgot D, I was subscribed to this because from him and like.

well, the way, the way the M. P. R. Broke those subscription figures as they had access somehow to the number of cancellation emails that were being sent.

But anyway, I like they got IT from male chain or something or some infrastructure provider.

That's a weird league. Yeah.

that's sketchy. That's a weird league. They're like h we got IT from china.

china. I just have .

to plug this this funny tweet I saw from this hot men who's I .

think business witter .

I I occasionally open IT um but this was actually I in know what's up channel discussing this but you know this said, you know people are trying as canceling your washington post subscription does nothing know what you should really do is cancelling them as on prime right? You want to get to this as SHE goes for me, i'm dying lying at space tourism. I just thought that was very funny. Get IT her protest is that she's not gonna go up in blue word that was very funy okay. And the only one journalist jokes.

it's so funny. Okay, guys.

before we sign up, what will we've got the diplomat coming back? Thank god.

I just saw that this morning and so excited.

Oh my god, line is on param out plus lovely. Are we .

excited about that? I was excited about IT.

What's live us?

Can I think what the girl love happening in the celebrity entertainer world?

Because girl love?

Yeah talk about that.

yeah. So um Olivia rodrigo and chapel roone are like B, F F and supporting each other. And oliba a has this new network special for concert coming out then? No.

IT turns out that they've been friends forever though, right? Like that's the thing everybody he's just realizing.

why not? But they SHE like showed up to her, her premier. Remember when Taylor went to beyond, says, and then sabina carpenter came out on stage with tailor this last week, and then adell and selenium had this moment together in losses. G.

things seemed like a calculated P, R move.

I think all calculated P, R moves they .

are using celebrities aren't calculated about that.

There's something going on with the way celebrity women are paying up together and supporting each other. And I hope it's authentic, but it's lovely to .

see there are just cable bundle ing.

You don't see the men doing this.

There are stuff speeches for each. Come on. Well.

whatever I like IT, I am here for .

have you had the?

Yes, we watched that? Yeah, we watched IT.

Okay, we're onna watch .

the O A with the O A is old, isn't IT.

We want great. Okay, we just .

running show recommendations .

by with this point, is there a reason you brought IT up I .

didn't love I wash an episode of the coma fd is not my thing.

Is that about to commerce?

No, I like to come as a quite a bit meats.

Is there meat? One about meats?

Sammer would sammer would prefer you meta fdi beat to .

that one day? One surprising closing thing.

you know, my love of targeted advertising, and I buy the things that are. So to me, i'm looking at my kind heba right now. Five hundred dollars looks great. The um I have not been togged by my artist stuff at all. I feel like I I was expecting a day I was going .

to you need to switch your interface .

to japanese that makes you want them more.

It's like they're playing hard to get for you and and you think you want them more, there are the one you can get.

It's like I just telling all the algorithm want more, metta and I have nothing and like you're going to have to .

you're gonna buy two before we send you more advertising.

But so japanese of them very wait.

can I do one last plug the time actually, just to launch their two hundred best inventions of twenty twenty four. And we've .

taught we of things.

We talked about .

a lot of them on the pod, just saying we're very ahead of our time. We should be like venture capital. There's something um and also guess what's on there, guys? The mill.

Yes yes. Pro meal. Did you guys see talking thing about composting? I got an ad for a toilet seat that waste you before and after you. You know how much too?

I have a toilet seat pitches this afternoon.

I'm going to, you have the last .

time you're going. I know i'm going deep on the toilets. You guys, i'm really in a smart toilets right now.

I actually we have we have a different toilet company. I did some diligence for you guys, a conference, the toilet company that I was. Cy, what? The round is not full. So I want to intro the toilet.

The toilet is not full. Sam and sam, and sense we're talking about microbiome britain. I were at another IT wasn't exactly secret but a conference last week that was actually when the best conference i've been to in a really long time shout out to jane in the dark conference but um did you like to establish .

you were talking to the same to come?

Yeah yeah, my card is actually in twenty minutes.

Yeah, they want to finish around.

So there's a great new microbiome task called jona J O N A, which i'd have just tried. So i'm excited to see did you.

did you and sending an value?

Yeah yeah, yeah.

That when you learned to take, eat less trout.

yeah, I was really funny. I was a great too much trouble. And i'm like, that's not trouble. I don't need any trouble. It's got to be my fish upsides.

Well, I got to say, by the time our listeners listen to this amazing podcast, they will have had halloween. And so I went to wish you guys a good halloween. But to everyone guys.

just as a tear you can provide by the time to my instagram abt and see video.

you going to be lame. Wilson.

no, it's it's pretty good.

There's an incredible D I Y that yet, David, I have a joint costume and there's a DIY that goes .

with that in his engineering mind has created something that's pretty. I this .

actually facilitate the difference between the mornings and lessons. You guys have probably collectively spent three months on your halloween .

costume scaur about a lot.

I opened our from the amazon packaging last night. So where were were good to go? I mean, there I did put them on hangers. I mean, I don't so I will fight out. But um yeah that's that's the difference in the night to each other.

You think our kids are gonna when their adults like hate halloween because like we were to into IT like that our parents how that doesn't .

sound like you're into IT at all. So you just order from amazon, you don't even build your own DIY costing.

You know what? Our kids are really and all in them and I am just so happy like kind of about going to be over so they don't keep talking about IT because it's like become a big thing. okay.

Well, a big thank you, everyone, for your listening. Another fun, we please share comment if you have we've got transcripts on the information, send us fee back and we'll see here next week. 拜拜。

拜拜。

If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a virtual hide five by reading IT and reviewing IT on apple podcast, spotify, youtube or wherever you get your podcast. Find more information about each episode in the show notes, and follow us on social media by searching for at more or less at dave morin at lesson at j lesson. And as for me, i'm at see guys next time.