551: The Paternity Draft
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From Relay, this is Upgrade episode 551. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, FitBod, Google Gemini, and Delete.me. My name is Mike Hurley. I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell. Hi, Mike Hurley. I'm going to miss the big Mike Hurley intros to Upgrade. I know. I know. This is my final Upgrade before my paternity leave. It's a big show today. I'm very excited. Listeners will have heard that.

The draft music played. Gasp. We'll get to that. An idea we had last week. Yes, yes. We'll get to that a little later on in the episode. Jason, there is a Snow Talk question, but it's actually for me. So would you like to read it? Oh, good. All right. This Snow Talk question for Mike comes from Sims, who asks, Mike, before you leave, have you been to Waffle House? Yes.

I love this question so much. I love it so much. I love this question so much because I've been asking, you know, if there's anything you need to know or want me to talk about before you go to send a man and we have some. How many roads must a man walk down before he considers himself ready for fatherhood? And the answer is how many? Has he been to Waffle House? Has he made the journey to Waffle House? Not metaphorically, literally, have you been to a Waffle House?

Many times, actually, because so for many years, each year I would go to the Atlanta Pen Show in Atlanta, Georgia. Ah, yeah. For the pen addict. And they have, it's always at the same hotel. I think it's a Wyndham Hotel. It changed, I think, like what type of hotel it was. And it also didn't matter because the pen show happens in the hotel. So you go to the hotel. It's the pen hotel. Yeah. There is a Waffle House in the parking lot of that hotel.

So there you go. I would go probably twice.

You know, maybe like one lunch and maybe one like easy dinner for the whole time I was there, especially in the earlier years. There wasn't really anything else around. And then over the years that I was going, there were more restaurants in this like because it was kind of like absolutely nowhere. You couldn't walk. There was no way to walk. Right. So they added things over time. But yeah, Waffle House. I've been to Waffle House many times because of the Atlanta Pen Show. I've never been outside of the Atlanta Pen Show. Like I said, I've never been any other time. Doesn't matter, though.

Yeah, you've been to Waffle House. I assume you've been to Waffle House too? I actually don't know. I remember seeing them in Jacksonville, Florida, where my aunt and uncle used to live, and driving by them and commenting about them. I have no memory if we actually went to Waffle House or if we just stuck to Cracker Barrel. I don't know. It was a good time. I mean, I like breakfast food, right? Yeah, me too. It's my favorite type of breakfast.

Just general breakfast. Yeah, it's Lauren's favorite. Lauren would do breakfast for lunch and breakfast for dinner if she could. Definitely. If you'd like to send in a Snow Talk question, I mean, I guess they're going to be weird. Do you want to talk about how you want to do Snow Talks? It's all up to you now for the next couple of months. So what do you want to do? There will be...

There may be Snell Talk questions. People can send those in. And there will also be an additional segment that we'll be introducing next week. Oh, I don't know what this is. I'm excited. Okay. We've touched on it before, but yeah, there'll be an additional segment at the top of the show so that we're more likely to get Mike to hear that part. Okay.

Okay. I'll look forward to it. Because it's for you. There's going to be a segment for you when you're not here. Because that's complicated. I'm excited. All right. But you can send in your questions at any time by going to upgradefeedback.com.

We have some follow-up. TikTok is back. TikTok's back in the App Store. There was a letter sent from the U.S. Attorney General to Apple and Google assuring that they would not be penalized if they offered the app in the store. Again, still not entirely sure...

um how that whether that's legal or not yeah but they're doing it anyway and i guess really for both apple and google this is very important now actually because new phones

You know, we've entered a time of the year where there's new phones coming out. There's going to be new Google Pixels later on this year, but there are, of course, also new Samsung phones. You know, like we're in that time of year. We're expecting probably the iPhone SE even the next week, this week maybe, and then going on further into the year. And so they want to be able to offer it in the store because people can't download it, right? And so because my expectation, I don't know this for sure, but

Until this point, if you had got a new phone and transferred from a backup, you wouldn't be able to download TikTok because it wasn't in the store at all, right? No, I think...

I don't know. You might have been able to because it wasn't existing. But no, you're right. I think maybe not. If you deleted it, you couldn't restore a purchase. Yeah. So, because, yeah, there was a podcast that I follow. He loved TikTok, but he deleted it when it went away. Right? And they couldn't get it back. He just hasn't been able to get it back until now. Not great. But anyway, so it's back.

I am fascinated to see what happens. I think it's like sometime in March that 75 day extension comes up.

Because there has not been any real news yet about anyone buying TikTok's US operations. Absolutely nothing. I will look forward to seeing about that. Yeah, well, we'll check in. We've previously spoken about the possibility of AirPods Pro getting heart rate monitoring. This is pretty heavily rumored at this point. And last week, Apple released the new Beats PowerBeats Pro.

And they have it. They have it. So these are the fitness headphones, the Apple's fitness headphones with the Beats brand. They look like a great set of headphones. It's got a bunch of features. It has an H2 chip in it, so it's got all of the fun stuff that it's got. I assume it has the adapter, but it has the transparency. It has the noise canceling. It has a ton of stuff. So these look actually really good fit.

fitness headphones. Apparently they sound very good, all that kind of stuff. But they also have heart rate monitoring in them. It's like an adaptation, a miniaturization of the sensor that goes on the Apple Watch. It actually looks somewhat similar, like kind of two little lights, you know, like the green lights that we got on the Apple Watch.

I put a link in the show notes to Victoria Song's review over at The Verge. Victoria's very good at fitness stuff. I think that's mostly her beat. It's a big part of her beat on The Verge. She does smartwatch reviews and stuff. In reading the review, I find it really interesting. This like

weird offshoot that Beats is at Apple. So the support for the heart rate monitors of the Powerbeats Pro is somewhat spotty in the operating system and amongst Apple's overall apps. So they've done deals with a bunch of workout apps to have the heart rate monitoring show up natively, but the heart rate monitoring in these does not work with Fitness Plus right now, which I think is kind of hilarious.

It works with a lot of the third-party apps. It shows in the health app, like if you're using it. So you can see your readings in the health app, like of an Apple Watch. But if you were to wear both, so an Apple Watch and the Powerbeats Pro, you cannot choose which device the heart rate is read from, and the system will always default to the watch.

So the expectation there being, at least for Apple's technology, the watch is what they consider to be a more reliable reading. I saw how I would take that. That makes sense to me. Yeah.

Because I know that like people say that, you know, the ear is a better place to take this reading from, but that is with conventional technology. Right. And, and I, cause I would expect a lot of what's going into these at this point is algorithms as well as the data that they're drawing. And you've got to assume that Apple at this point is very confident in their Apple watch data. Um,

And maybe this is part of them building the system to put this in the AirPods, right? So then by the time it comes around in AirPods, maybe it will be more fully featured. But yeah, I thought it was interesting. Very interesting to see this feature be added to non-AirPods headphones first. I thought it was a bit fascinating. They only update these Powerbeats Pro very seldomly do they update them. So...

I think it makes sense to, you know, if they've got that feature ready to go and it's, especially these are fitness headphones specifically designed as fitness headphones, putting that feature in kind of makes sense. But it is funny, right? That it, that it didn't debut in AirPods, even though it might, it might get there. That's weird. Yeah. Yeah. A couple of weeks ago on our upgrade plus segment, which you can get by signing up at getupgradeplus.com. We spoke about Jason canceling his Netflix subscription and,

This is just a lead-in for me to mention the Netflix thing that happened last week. So for about 12 hours, I think it was last Thursday or Friday, Netflix became available in the Apple TV app. Users could add Netflix shows to their queue, like their Up Next queue, and also you would see a splash screen in the app for adding Netflix as a content provider for Up Next. Wow.

So people were very excited about this. Like finally, Netflix was coming to the Apple TV and then Netflix said it was added in error and they took it away again. Yes. As our friend Joe Steele wrote, Netflix deeply regrets accidentally making Netflix a better product for its customers.

But here's the thing I find interesting about this, Jason, and I have no doubt I'm the first person to mention this, but I haven't seen a lot of people talking about it anyway. Netflix have obviously done the work to build this feature. Yes. I got a comment on, I want to say, Blue Sky, where I am Snell.Zone. You can check me out there. That's a little plug. I love that. I love it.

just instead of at the end of the show, I just mentioned here because I mentioned Blue Sky. Is that where it was? Or maybe it was Mastodon where I am. Give yourself a plug for Mastodon too then, I guess. I'm Jason Allen at Zeppelin.Flights. No, it is Blue Sky. Somebody wrote in and said, I'm going to read, this is Mike. He said, as someone who has written the code to implement this feature, there is no way it just accidentally happens. See, this is what I thought.

Something's going on here. So here's my bigger theory. This is happening, and they did it too soon by accident. That's my feeling about it, too, is that they are going to do this, and they're talking to Apple about it, and they made a mistake. Mike, who wrote in, said it feels to him like it's like an A-B test kind of thing, and that actually...

Also, it makes me wonder because they love doing that. You turn it on for some people and see what happens and allow this change to happen. But yeah, it seems unlikely that this was just a switch that got flipped. It's more like they built this feature, but they're not ready to roll it out yet. They have to have built it, right? For some reason, they have to have built it. Yes, there was.

Whatever reason that is, I mean, there are many reasons you could draw that. One, they do want to do it, or they're testing it, or they want something from Apple, so they've built this, and they're like, hey, look, we're just ready. Or they've got it, and it's a deal, and they're just getting it finished, and they're going to turn it on with a rollout and an announcement and things like that. And instead, it just sort of appears randomly on a Wednesday. But it is, if this isn't...

going to go to everybody soon. You know, Joe's point stands, which is, this is ludicrous. Like, it is, and I'll tell you, this little episode, it made me realize that part of the reason I had no problem dumping Netflix is because I use Up Next in the TV app all the time. Oh, me too. That's how I manage what I'm watching on television.

And I don't watch a lot of Netflix stuff, which is why I was able to cancel Netflix, knowing that inevitably it will come back at some point when there's something for me to watch and I'll probably just pay for the ad tier and whatever. But that's a symptom. The fact that I don't have a lot of connection to a lot of shows on Netflix is in part because

Because of their content. And in part, because what they have that I do want to watch, I can't mark and have it show up and up next. And that's bad. That's just bad. And it's so stupid that Apple and Netflix can't come to an agreement here. You can lay the blame in lots of places. It's easy to lay blame on Apple here. I'm going to blame Netflix. Netflix, because they're the number one streamer, they basically don't want to share interface space with other people.

on other streamers. They just want you to use the Netflix app and stay there. It's silly because they actually do have integration in some of the other apps and it should be there. So they've apparently built this thing and I hope they turn it on for realsies sometime soon. And Tim Cook announced on X that Apple is hosting a hashtag Apple launch on Wednesday this week. Apple launch is a funny...

That's a funny phrase. It is. It's not an event. It's a launch. That's clearly what they're saying is that it's not an event, right? And so my expectation is this will be like the videos that we got for the Macs in October of last year when they did that series of videos on YouTube and put them on the website. That's probably what we're going to get, right? It's more than a press release because they don't pre-announce press releases anymore.

So the expectation that it is an event. So that is one of the reasons that we're going to do a draft today. I do want to give a interesting side note for me. I think it is a very strange decision at this point for Apple to be just using X for these kinds of messages. I mean, even avoiding the obvious, right? Which I think is plainly clear to the majority of our listeners. Like the fact that

The main reason... Like, a lot of people left X anyway. We did a long time ago, right? And just stopped using it, a lot of people. I just think, at this point, why just post there? Like, why not have... Like, why doesn't Tim Cook have an account on Blue Sky and Threads? Like, I don't understand...

that part at this point. I don't know why they continue to rely purely on X, because I think that the platform is definitely not as strong as it used to be. So even if you take out the reasons that many people don't use X anymore, of which there are many, I find it peculiar that they still use it. I don't think it has the same cultural cachet as it did before.

I, um, I think I agree with that. And also, um, it reminds me of an interesting story about how there are a bunch of different sports teams that try to set up, um, blue sky or threads accounts, um,

Um, and we're told by their leagues to turn them down, pull them down. It's like the new England Patriots had a blue sky count and they were, it was pulled off. Um, and this story in Sportico that we can put in the show notes, uh, talks about the NFL has signed deals with Tik TOK X YouTube and some other platforms. So partly, uh,

I think maybe some of it is Apple has an existing X relationship and contract that they can just turn back on. I don't think they're like, no, no, X, baby. X is it. Just X from now on. I think maybe some of it is Apple has not spun up their approach to some of these other places and their relationship with those other places and therefore is not...

there yet. But it's also possible that this is just currying favor with people in power. That's also a possibility. But it's marketing, so I would think you would want to be wide. That's my point. You can still do all of those things, right? They obviously have a relationship with X, right? They have for a long time. It's one of the only places that they do marketing, and Apple has recently relaunched their marketing on X. There's a whole other can of worms, which is just like, again, now they're doing it.

Okay. I mean, it's obvious why they're now doing it then, because they want to be in favor with the administration. But if these are marketing messages, why would you not...

have these in all places. I find it just odd to me to be like, this is the place that Tim speaks. Just here? It's not like they own this platform. Because they don't. And I don't and would not assume, and I don't think Apple should create a Mastodon instance. That's just...

that would just seem strange to me. Honestly, I feel like what they should do is post the threads, just get over yourself and post the threads and federate.

So then people can follow Tim on Mastodon via threads, right? And also be, I mean, and maybe don't bother with Blue Sky. I don't know. But like, I think you should, but maybe don't. Like, whatever. But I don't understand why they're not at least on threads and Instagram. Like, look, I get it. You hate meta. But like, do you love X? Like, you know, are you in love with it? Like, I find it very peculiar at this point.

But that's not really the importance of this message, but I just thought it was a thing to mention at this point. But yeah, something's going on this week. Yes.

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Welcome to the paternity draft. Yay! This is the rules of the paternity draft and we will explain what this means. So there are going to be seven rounds, 14 overall picks. The draft will not be split into any categories. We have a bunch of things that we can pick from and we're going to pick freely between them. These items are from a predetermined list as we always have, which we have agreed to.

For an item to count in the paternity draft, it has to happen between now and when I return to the show.

Whenever that might be. Whenever that might be. The winner of the previous draft gets to pick first, and that is me. Stephen Hackett will adjudicate if we have a scoring stalemate. The points will be awarded on the episode that I return on, and it will be finalized during the scoring segment. We have a tiebreaker as always. The winner of this draft will become draft champion and display the champion pennant.

The loser will become the draft challenger and display the challenger pennant. This is a great way for us to deal with any draft that could potentially happen. It's like, this is the answer to the draft. Right. This is it. And just to be clear, there's an out-of-time episode coming in a couple of weeks with Mike in it, and that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about Mike returning from paternity leave. Come on, people. When I actually return. When I actually, actually return. When I actually, actually return. Anybody, any attempts to score the draft during Mike's out-of-time episode will be...

I mean, invalid because we won't have scored the draft in that episode because we didn't know we were doing a draft when we recorded it. We actually did not. You can find an interactive scorecard of this draft over at upgrade.cards, courtesy of our friends at MNOX. And if you want to celebrate the draft today, you can go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com and you can buy yourself a draft tee that you can wear at any point of your choosing. So you can always be ready. Anytime. During the leave. Indeed.

I've gone through and got some results for you as I like to have. I have a good list of results. So the 20, I'm currently the draft champion in 2024. There were four drafts and I won three of them. So I won the iPad draft, which was in May and then both September and October. We did a weird draft because we knew Macs were coming. Jason won WWDC.

uh while this is the first time we have done a draft of this kind of length with the ramifications because we don't do like the uh episode 500 draft or whatever they're not fully sanctioned games um but this is a fully sanctioned draft um we have done pre-wwc drafts before which this would kind of count as yeah um

Jason has won three of those in 2018, 2019, and 2022. And I have won two in both 21 and 2024. So we have a tiebreaker question. We do. Would you like to let me know what it is so I can pick my over-under? It's how many minutes of upgrade runtime will occur during your paternity leave?

And just some notes. It does not include Upgrade Plus. Okay. It does include the pre-recorded episode that is going to be released in a few weeks. Okay. A couple weeks. That's it. And I guess we should say right now the plan is for you to return after eight weeks. Correct.

Right now. Mm-hmm. We never know. That's all part of this. It's all to play for. But that would mean that it will... The current plan is eight episodes. Yes. Of Upgrade. Yes. Without you. Yeah. So how many minutes am I picking from? I was really vacillating on this because the average Upgrade episode...

varies but it's been mostly in the kind of 90 to 110 lately um but i i think i'm gonna put it at 850 850 minutes not 800 minutes because here's i'll just say one of the issues is i went back and looked at episodes that i have guests on and oh boy those are longer usually so

We'll see. So 850, which again, if you're gone for eight weeks, is 106 minute episodes on average. That's not bad. I feel like I'm being generous. I might pick 900, but I went with 850. I'm going to go over 850. I think that's the right call. Because I know some of the people you have booked. So I feel pretty confident that you'll exceed that time. It's fine. It's fine.

Yeah, but you're not taking into account that special short episode that I'm going to do. Oh, no, the one-minute episode that we had the week before. Yeah, I know. One segment. All right. So it's draft time. So basically this list is comprised of a vast variety of things. I think I'll give our listeners just an overview of the kinds of areas we're talking about.

What we have tried to stay away from is, as we said, the really obvious stuff. Like, for example, I saw someone say in the chat, iPhone SE 4 ships is not a pickable iPhone for us. Because that feels incredibly obvious. Now, we have some things in here where they are a little bit more like that because there's no kind of set kind of period on them. But we're talking about picks related to the iPhone SE, a potential home device and home devices, right?

some Mac stuff, mostly MacBook Air, a couple of iPad possible picks, maybe display picks, some general kind of iOS, Apple intelligence picks. And then I have a couple of weird WWDC picks, which probably neither of us will pick, but I put them in there anyway. Because during now me returning...

I expect WWDC 25 will be announced as existing and the dates will be given. They usually do that in like...

March, April-ish time if I'm remembering correctly. So that will at least be announced. And I'm excited about my return. I basically return and then it will be about a month in the WWDC starts. That will be like a fun ramp up and a summer of fun. Good for you, yeah. Good for Mike. Everything's coming up Mike. Coming up Mike. Alright, so my first pick in the paternity draft is low-end iPhone has a notch.

Okay, sure. That's what I'm going for. Now look. All right. You're playing to win. I get it. It might have a dynamic island. Like we actually, I mean, we don't know, no, right? Like, cause there have been multiple leaks. Some leaks, hardware leaks have shown notch. Software leaks have shown dynamic island. It's like, we don't know. But yeah, of course I'm playing to win. That's the whole point of the draft, you know? But that's what I think. I think low end iPhone is a notch is my first pick.

I think that's good. I think that's likely. I think that you're getting a point there. I'm going to pick with passion. Okay. Passionate draft for me, maybe, this time. And I'm going to pick, there is a controversy about the speeds and capabilities of the low-end iPhone's Apple-built modem. Love this pick, Jason. I love this pick so much.

Now, people are like, what does a controversy mean? You know what I mean. I mean, there are going to be some articles that are on websites that are going to be like, oh, it turns out there's this quirk of Apple's modem that's different than the Qualcomm modem, and it affects, right, like...

Mm-hmm.

But I like it. It might not happen, but I bet it happens. And this is fun for us because we usually couldn't pick something like this.

I know, right? Because, I mean, we have... But we've got eight weeks. We have something in here, and my next pick was going to be the low-end iPhone has an Apple-built cell motor, but I will not pick that now because... Ah. Just because I feel like I need to... I also need to go with a little bit of passion. But, I mean, we've spoken about this for a while. I think we spoke about it maybe last week or the week before. Like, I do... I genuinely think something like this is going to happen. I really do. It'll be a quirk, a weirdness. Yeah. I mean, it's almost like a function of the fact that they're doing it, and they're doing it in the low-end iPhone world.

for a reason, which is to shake out the bugs. And that suggests that there will probably be bugs. Because there have been issues of iPhones before with like the actual established chip makers. They're like a couple of different modem chips. One of them didn't work very well.

Yeah, yeah. There was that, like, if you get this iPhone with an Intel chip, it's a little slower than if you get the iPhone with a Qualcomm chip or whatever that was back then. So, yeah. Yeah, I just feel also everybody wants a controversy involving Apple. They're going to look for it. Oh, there'll be people looking for it. I feel like, oh, it's 10% slower, but that's a controversy. That's why I say it's sort of human nature, right? And then at that point, you write an article about it, and then everybody else on the sites that rewrite somebody's article rewrite their article, and then it's a controversy. Yeah.

I'm going to jump down my list to pick up a little more passion. I want to meet you here at this moment. Thank you. And I think this is somewhat passionate. A new Apple-built home device is announced. Oh, wow.

Oh, yeah. Let's bring, I mean, again, bring it on. Maybe, maybe, you know, be the change you want to see in the world. Draft the change you want to see in the world. I think it could happen. I think it could happen. I put, I put like 10 different Apple home device items in our list for this reason. I do think it could happen because we're talking about eight weeks now. So, or nine weeks, I guess, or, I mean, it depends on how you measure, but like we're talking a long time. It's a couple of months.

Where there could be Apple announcements and, you know, our friend Mark Gurman says it's going to happen. It's just a matter of when. So, yeah, bring it on. I say bring it on. I love it. When do you think it's going to get announced?

Right before you come back? Maybe. I mean, it could happen on Wednesday. It could. It could. They could pre-announce. They could. Obviously, what we're talking about here is like, it is the smart home controller device. We're not naming it in this pic because we have pics for namings, but what we're talking about is... Square screen home controller tablet. It's a home device of a tablet, basically, is the shorthand of this. Yes. Yeah.

I could see it happening this week. I mean, I can also see it... Because here's the thing, like, I'm not sure how much of a developer story this thing actually has. I think realistically it doesn't, and it will work with some existing technology. So they don't need to announce this at WWDC, right? I don't think that's needed.

You could argue that they could announce this thing and then at WWDC say our software update for this thing this fall will enable some third party features and here's how you can add them. Yeah.

But I do think we could see something, as we said before, like the widget system, right? With the projecting of widgets or some kind of app-intense thing, like something, right? That it's just building on existing technology so they don't need to have full third-party apps. But maybe they add them later, right? I think that it...

I think it would be a mistake for Apple to announce this product and try and sell people on a brand new app store. I think that might not be a good idea. I agree completely. If they can, to begin with, make it a compelling product with integrating some third-party features...

as well as their own stuff, that would be maybe more interesting and more likely to have what would be considered a level of success than if they were like, they're basically Division Pro approach, right? Here's the app store, bring your apps, go wild. Yeah, everybody in the Discord is trying to play that game of but what about, but what about? Mm-hmm.

And again, this is not the Ricky's. We know what we're picking here. They're like, but what about an Apple TV update or a HomePod update? It's like, no. A new... What part of new? A new Apple built home device. A new product. Not an update to an existing product. A new product. Period. That's what we're talking about. All right. I am going to pick in a different category. I am going to pick...

There's a MacBook Air M4, and it's at the same base price, $1099, as the M3. Okay. I know we live in a world with mystery tariffs and who knows what else going on. I know. I feel like Apple is super committed to having a MacBook Air start at $1099. So that's what I'm going to say is there is going to be an M4 MacBook Air, and it's going to start at $1099, just like the M3. Okay.

Yeah, I feel like it wouldn't be a good idea. I mean, the only way that they don't do this is they keep the M3 at $1099, but that seems really weird to do, right? Yeah, I don't think they're going to do that. It's like, unless the M4 MacBook Air has some other whiz-bang features that mean it should be more expensive, but that's not likely to happen.

If they're like, oh, this is the one with an OLED display, which is not happening. But then you could say, all right, fine. Maybe that one is just the more expensive. But they've just gotten to the point where the MacBook Air story has been simplified. Surely they're not going to make it more complicated. And I think history has shown, recent history has shown, they cannot have the MacBook Air begin at a higher price than that. So I agree with you. $1099 is the right call. Great.

There'll probably be the escape valve that I won't talk about of like what could be $9.99 and where can you get it? Because maybe we'll talk about that in a minute. That's another option here. Another option. Yeah.

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Alright, my next round pick. I've blown up my order, so usually what I do is...

I go in. Nice, nice, nice. I love it. And I pick up my, you know, I pick out the things that I think are most likely. Yeah. And then I reorder them based on what likelihood do I think they have. And I have just, I've completely exploded it now. Okay, great. I mean, I love it. This is uncharted territory. It's a paternity draft. It's fun. It's different. We're just doing stuff. It's great. Yeah. Nobody knows. Nobody knows what we're doing. All right. Nobody knows. Nobody knows.

All right, here we go. Upgraded webcam in the MacBook Air M4. Yes, yes, yes. Apple has been taking to upgrading their webcams a little bit.

So that they're a little bit nicer than what was in the studio display. And they did it with the MacBook Pro, right? The MacBook Pro webcam and the iMac webcam in the last fall in the M4 revision were better. And the question is, will they keep the same kind of marginal MacBook Air webcam or will they put that new upgraded MacBook Pro webcam? And I agree with you. That's why I put this in here. I think...

Apple, I know Apple likes to differentiate between its pro and non-pro systems, but what also Apple likes to do is reuse parts. And I feel like if they've engineered a new webcam for the Mac that can go in the MacBook Pro and that they're also, they also stuck it in the iMac, probably what that means is that every Mac that's got a webcam, and that means the MacBook Air, is going to get it. So I think this is a good thing to look for when the MacBook Air comes out. Because they have been panned.

since the pandemic began, right? About the quality of their webcams. And they tried to make them better and better. They had the studio display controversy, right? Um...

That camera was just terrible. And then they upgrade. And over time, they've... Is it the studio display? Was that the one that was really bad? And then they fixed it in software? They didn't fix it. It just is. It is because they use the... Yeah, they use the ultra-wide and it's not high enough resolution so that when they crop it, it doesn't look very good. And so they've tried to change that. But the iMac one is significantly better and it's also what they put in the MacBook Pro. Yeah.

So I would just be surprised to see a new MacBook Air not get the center stage camera. I mean, because we spoke about it before, like...

center stage makes a lot of sense in laptops because they move around like so having us having a camera where you can get the framing that you want you have flexibility on the framing is maybe even more helpful in that kind of product than a product where you essentially can just fix a framing based on the fact that your screen's in a certain place yeah exactly so um

Yeah, that's my guess, and it's your pick. So I think it's a good one. I think there's a really good chance of that. In fact, I'm not going to predict this, but I predict that the only substantive change other than the processor in the MacBook Air M4 will be the webcam. Everything else will be exactly the same. But my pick now is going to be AirTag 2 introduced. Mm-hmm.

It's out there. We know it's floating out there. We know that they've been working on it. Mark Gurman says it's going to happen. Do we need an AirTag 2? No, but my guess is that the technology has advanced and that they can put stuff in it that is more precise and maybe has longer battery life and there's lots of other ways. It's time to make an AirTag 2. So I'm going to put a chip down on AirTag 2 or whatever they call it, but you know what I mean. A new AirTag. Yeah, there was...

A rumor that it would get ultra wideband to make the product even better. It has ultra wideband. That's it. Original Intertech has ultra wideband, yeah. Then I don't know what I'm talking about.

I don't know. It already has Ultra Wideband. I don't know if you know that. Why did I? I'm sure I saw that somewhere. That's why I struck it out of our document. It's because it already has it. Maybe it's going to get better. Because you can do precise positioning with it. Yeah. But that's what I imagine is that there's more precise precision finding or whatever in it.

and probably... I mean, the two things you want is maybe more precision and better... Ah, okay. I found it now. Next generation ultra-wideband chip to considerably increase the range. That's what I've been looking for. So that's what it is. So I saw ultra-wideband and just put that in my brain. Yes, indeed. So yeah, that would be good though because...

That product more than anything benefits from that system. And the AirTag is like so good. What I don't like is if it is so much better, I'm going to end up buying like six because I have so many at this point. AirTag is a funny example of an Apple product that is not a, it does not seem like a hit and it's not that exciting and nobody talks about it. But you know what? I think it's been really successful. And I think a lot of people use them and like them. And that's just, yeah.

Yeah. So time for a new one. I think it's one of those products, like how we have mentioned like potential smart home products, like sensors and cameras that while you may not sell to 6 million people, you might get a million people by six of them. And I think like, that's kind of what happens. I think with air tags, I think once you have one,

you buy a bunch, right? And so like I probably have, I mean, between me and Idina, we probably have like eight or 10 or something like that across various bags and items. Like something I do on my suitcase, I put one on the outside and one on the inside.

Yes, I know this about you. Because the one on the outside is for if it's found. So if it's found by someone, so they can help you. But if it gets lost or gets cut off, I had one on the inside, and that one's for me to do my tracking. And I've noticed sometimes when I travel, so I'm looking for a bag, one says it's still in London, and the other's like, oh, it's here with you in San Francisco. Because they're just out of their pinging. So I have multiple. All right, so my next pick is...

Oh, boy. I've really given myself... Okay. The iPad Air gets an M3 or M4 chip. Oh. So the iPad Air was last updated in 2022. So it's been knocking around for a while. I think it's a good product. It deserves an update every now and again. This feels like a product... Honestly, I would imagine this one, if it happens, happens within the next seven days from now.

that they're like, all right, the iPad has got this. So...

I just got told that the iPad Air got a revision in May with the M2. With the M2. It was last year. Yeah. Yeah. So I have caused myself a problem, but that's my pick and I'm sticking to it because I misread something. Okay. I was going to say, didn't they just update the iPad Air to M2? They absolutely did when they introduced the 15-inch. That's where it got me. A year ago. I thought, I was curious that you went this way. Oh, darn it. Fatherhood. I've got parent and brain already. Leave me alone. Leave me alone. I'm doing my best. All right. I'm going to...

I'm going to go what is called one of the features of some of those Ricky's sites that I enjoy, where they keep track of the Ricky's competition for the Connected program, is they have a label called Buzzkill, which is you pick something not happening or something not fun happening. I'm going to do a little bit of a buzzkill here. I'm going to go back to the MacBook Air and predict the same colors, unchanged color profile for the MacBook Air M4,

Now, if there are very, very, very slight changes in hue, we can say, I mean the names, right? I mean, I mean the names. So if I had picked it this way for the iMac, I would have gotten it right, right? Which is they're going to keep the color names the same, even though they refreshed the hues a little bit, whatever that means. I'm saying just nothing. Like we all want a brightly colored, fun MacBook Air.

I want it to happen, but I'm not going to manifest it. I'm not going to draft something that I want to see in the world. Instead, I'm going to be a sort of cynical, sad, beaten down person who says, no, Apple will not let us have any fun because if they wanted us to have fun colors in the MacBook Air, they would have done it already and they didn't. So here we are. Oh, I've screwed myself. Okay. So now I know I've definitely lost a point.

I mean, maybe. It's very unlikely. Okay. I am going to go with, and we will talk about this more in a little bit. We will talk about this more in a little bit. Apple does not ship improved Siri in personal context to customers. So we're going to talk about this in rumor roundup coming up. Yeah. And I'll just say,

We, it's discussed in rumor roundup, but it's unclear whether it, what we will discuss later, it's unclear whether it will happen or not. And I will say on top of that, I put this pic in the document before Mark Gurman wrote about this. Just thinking, you know, what if we've been waiting all this time for the improved Siri and the personal context stuff. What if they're like, we can't do it. Sorry. Yep.

What then? What then? What then is it doesn't ship. That's what then. It just doesn't ship. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, you took my next pick. Okay. This is the fifth pick for you. So I am going to be... I'm going to make a riskier pick. Okay. In part, accepting the fact that you whiffed on a pick. Absolutely. So...

I'm going to pick, oh, I'm going to do it. Low-end iPhone is not called iPhone SE. Wow. Okay. I made a kind of a promise to myself this time that I was not going to pick any naming picks. I know. I wasn't going to either. I've been burned way too many times in trying to predict names and prices. I just, your embrace of iPad Air passion made me think I could, I'll just do that. Maybe it won't work out with me. That's okay.

That's okay. The truth is, most of our drafts are incredibly close. Yes. So, it's fine. Yeah, I have come around on this. Well, one of the clues, Mr. Policeman, I left you all the clues, is Tim Cook saying the next member of our family. And even Mark Gurman, who's been pretty steadfast on the idea that it's the iPhone SE, was like...

Does that mean maybe that they're going to integrate it in a different way and it won't be called the SE anymore and it'll be integrated into the family? I don't know. I just...

I like the, honestly, iPhone SE as a concept does not thrill me. And I like the idea that it's just another iPhone that's more affordable, that's released on a different schedule. And it actually makes it more like a thing that you predicted a long time ago, which is the idea that they would start introducing additional phones kind of off season. Mm-hmm.

And that would be this, which is what if they just say, yeah, well, you know, we'll have some other iPhone, whatever number models in the spring. Maybe that's this. I don't know. So...

Look, who knows? Maybe the next couple of years we finally get what we want and they actually stop numbering these things because if they have this with a name and they... Because basically, I still think that it would be a mistake to number this product with the current numbering. I think that is a mistake, personally. Yeah. I'm not predicting that, right? No, I know. Anything could happen. But I'm thinking between this and then the iPhone Air. Now...

Surely, well, not surely, but they could just call it the iPhone Air. They don't have to call it the iPhone 17 Air, right? And then you've got the iPhone Fold or something that comes next year or something like that. Maybe we could finally get to this point where they can detach numbers from these products, which I think would be, I would prefer that. They do it for everything else, right? Like, we don't call it MacBook Air 16 or whatever, you know? Like, it's not what we do. And then us as nerds, we put our own

characteristics on them, which I think is fine. But then to the general audience, they're not like people aren't like, oh, I'm so confused. What iPad do you mean? Like, it's just not a thing that people care about.

And you can just, they'll just make it work. This is the new iPhone. This is the old iPhone. And then it's just a line of products that exists. It's not like you go into a store and you can choose from the iPhone 16, 15, 14, 13. You know, they have like limited availability. They'll make it work. It's totally fine. That's what I think and what I would like. But nevertheless, I would be very intrigued to see what they name. Because the iPhone SE brand, it's just not a very good brand. It's just not like a very...

brand name, SE. What does that even mean? Realistically, what does it even mean? The answer is kind of nothing. I would like them to come up with something a bit more fun for it. But then what happens to the... They have Apple Watch SE, right? They do. Maybe they can give that better name too. The S stands for speed. And the E stands for everybody. I'm going to go with... Getting harder now here at the end.

I'm going to double... Do I want to double down? I don't know if I want to double down because then I'm on my own. But it's really tough at this point. All right, I am going to double down. New home device has Apple intelligence in some way. In some way. Yeah. I put that in parentheses. Yeah. What does it mean? It doesn't matter. It just, look, it means that they say it connects to Apple intelligence, something like that. So there's going to be a new home device and it's going to have...

some sort of connection to Apple intelligence, right? It's either going to run Apple intelligence or it's going to use Apple intelligence from your iPhone or I don't know what, but that they're going to not release that product. If they release that product, I think you get this point because Apple's not releasing non-Apple intelligence products anymore, period. That's what I'm going for is based on like, if it exists, I feel like this is the safest thing that I can say about it is that it will feature Apple intelligence. Yeah.

because I agree there was like a time I remember when Touch ID became a thing and I remember back then we were saying like or Apple Pay like they're not releasing a product now that doesn't feature this thing and like there are two items where it's like it has to everything will support Apple Pay and everything will have Touch ID and then eventually became Face ID of just like the idea that they would release a new product

that doesn't have this is wild and that is where we are with Open Intelligence. Everything they release now has to support some of these features in some way because it is core to what they are talking about right now whether you like it or not.

Yeah. This is a company-wide effort to do this. This is their moonshot kind of thing. It's like everything's going to have Apple intelligence in it. So it will in some way. In some way. All right. I'm going to, and this is more just like, is it going to happen in the next two months or not? But I'm going to say we finally get that base level iPad. Okay. Yeah.

Oh, do I have to pick it with an M series chip? I don't want to do that. I just want to choose that the base level iPad is updated. There's an 11th gen iPad. I don't want to say that it's got an M series chip. Is that too obvious? It may have a speedy. Well, we don't know. Okay, so here I'll make my argument. We don't know when that thing's coming out. It could come out this week. It could come out in May. It could come out in June. We don't know when the 11th gen iPad is going to come out because it didn't come out last year.

But I don't think it may have an M series chip because I think it might have that A series chip. Yeah, let's make it the base level iPad is updated to support Apple intelligence. That's a fair enough product to me. And supports...

Apple intelligence. We don't know when that product's coming out. We'd expect it to come out then, like between now and then, but it's not a given, I think, in the way that the SE is. I was viewing this that that was risky enough, but what we said before, I don't think they're going to release it without support for Apple intelligence, but I think it'll be the iPad mini chip, that A17 or whatever was in there. Yeah.

Yeah, we'll go with that. And again, I think it's not certain in part because we really don't know when that product... I mean, that product could come out now or it could come out in the fall. Like, literally whenever. But I think supposedly it's a spring release. We'll see. All right. One more pick, Mike. One more pick. Final pick. Final pick for you, yep. Oy. M2 Air Remains. Yes. So this is...

The theory here is that probably what will happen is they'll introduce an M4 MacBook Air. They will discontinue the M3 rather than rolling it down. And that's because they want to get everything off of the M3 that they possibly can, other than the weird products that they ship with the M3. But, you know, but no, I mean, they're not doing the M3, right? They're doing the A7, 18 or 17 or whatever. Like it.

Just get it out, right? Get the old chip process out. But the M2 is really nice and will probably remain. And it continues to allow them to have the $999 starting price for the MacBook Air. Exactly. Or maybe even $899. Maybe. Maybe.

Maybe even $899, but certainly $999. M2 Air is still great. I do wonder, one of our things that we might or might not pick, I might or might not pick for the next round is, what becomes of the M1 Air and is it still on sale at Walmart in eight weeks? I don't know, but I love the M2 Air Remains pick. You're making a lot of picks that I endorse. Thank you. Except that one. Except that one. Except that one. Except that one.

Yeah. But yeah, because it's a good product and they don't want the M3 around anymore. It's like I was saying earlier, the 1099 spot is like they want that spot, right? And so increasing that price would surprise me for like whatever is the newest MacBook Air. But similarly, I think more importantly, they need that 999 spot and

And the easiest thing to do there is just keep the M2 Air going rather than the M3 Air because the M2 Air, they've got even more economy of scale on it. And we know from various reporting that that M3 processor was...

kind of like an ugly duckling, and they replaced it as quickly as they could. So the idea of them being able to continue producing M3 chips on the long term is not so likely. It's the understanding that I have anyway from the way people have spoken about the processors at TSMC. Yeah. Yep. M2 MacBook Air remains. I am going to pick with my last pick and the last pick of the paternity draft. The low-end iPhone has an action button.

Wow. I'm going to go back to the low-end iPhone and think they're going to give it an action button, but not camera control. Oh, I love that you've picked this one. I wanted to pick this one, but I didn't. I love that you have. Well, that's the question is how low can you go with the low-end iPhone? I feel like action button is, they can throw in an action button. That's fine. Do that. I put this in and I put in the camera control one as well because it kind of felt like,

Both of those buttons are important for different reasons. And like, which is the one that is going to appear? Because the camera control was surprising that it appeared everywhere. Yeah. But you don't need the camera. Action button works kind of like camera control, except it's simpler, which is arguably better. And that's also what the phones had last year. Yeah. The high-end phone had just the action button. So that sounds like a pretty good compromise. Yeah. My thought on the camera control and why I put it in there is...

How important do they think visual intelligence is? Because if they think visual intelligence is a really big deal and they just haven't gotten to that yet, you would maybe want it in this phone that will last for multiple years. But I don't know what the answer is to that. But it can have access to it. It can have access to it via the home screen or via the action button or however they want to do it. Or in the camera app. You can just have a button that you press in the camera app and it goes to visual intelligence.

Yeah. That's the draft. Throw it out there. That's it. That's the paternity draft. Check back in when Mike returns from leave. And on that episode, we will score the paternity draft and declare a winner. Yep. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Google Gemini.

I tried Gemini a couple of days ago. This is Gemini Live, where you can talk to it. And it is wild to have a full-on conversation with this thing. I was messing around. I asked it to give me some ideas for hosting during a holiday season. And when it starts to give you results...

You can just stop it and say, OK, but what about something low key for a smaller group? And then it adjusts to that. You could just keep going until you get an idea that you want. I think this is what I would use it most for is brainstorming things. It's so good if you don't know where to start or you hit a wall. You just go to Gemini. It helps you get the ball rolling, but you can use it for all kinds of stuff.

If you want to learn something new, you can have it give you advice. Ask it to explain Bitcoin in simple terms, or you can have it quiz you on microbiology. Imagine being a student and you've got this personal tutor on hand. It's hard to explain. You really have to just play around with it. See how it listens to you, responds, and adapts to your style of conversation. Just try it out. It's free. Our thanks to Google Gemini for their support of this show and all of Relay. Rumor roundup time. Yeehaw!

Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple has found its partners to allow them to launch Apple Intelligence in China.

So to set the stage for this, as we previously understand, Apple needs to work with local partners in China because the CCP rules that any AI model needs local approval. They have to approve other models. So Apple is apparently going to be working with Alibaba and Baidu as their two partners for launching Apple Intelligence. But this partnership is not the same kinds of partnerships that we've seen them do with OpenAI. Right.

So as well as acting as probably the world knowledge service, Alibaba will also be creating a second model that runs on device that analyzes and can modify Apple intelligence responses to satisfy Chinese censorship. So it's like a sandwich of models, I guess. So the way to think about this is...

Apple will throw things out to chat GPT if you want, and that's one thing. But Apple has its own models that it built that run on device. Yep. And that's not going to get approved by the Chinese authorities. So they seemingly have a partner and that what will be approved is that Apple will do its thing and then the other model will run essentially and say, can I run this? Can I show this to somebody in China?

and then pass it on. And that's what the law is in China, is to do that. This model will quote from, this is the quote from Bloomberg, sensor and filter AI output to comply with requirements from the Chinese government.

They're also working with Baidu as a secondary partner for handling visual intelligence, kind of like how Google does the visual intelligence. You can ask over there, do a Google image search. I want to read a quote here from Goeman's reporting in Bloomberg. The Chinese government will be able to direct Alibaba to ask Apple to make changes to AI models when it has issues with the information being delivered to customers. This part makes sense to me. Here's the next part that I am very perplexed by.

In cases where a customer's device is still running an outdated model, Apple will temporarily disable AI features until the data is updated to remove prohibited content. Right. I don't understand this part fully. Yeah, I think that makes sense to me. So it basically means, look, if we find something that we don't like and we build a... Basically, because you've got your AI model running on your device and it's versioned, and it allows them to say, if this version is out of...

Date or needs to be replaced. Turn this feature off and then and then update until you download the new version and you can download. I am assuming you can download these AI models in the background and it has nothing to do with OS updates like that. You can just download a new model.

And so this is the idea of like something comes up that's controversial that the Chinese government wants to censor and it's not in the model or they discover something that's getting through that they don't like. They can basically say, OK, turn that off until you do the update that fixes this. It's not great, but I think technically that's how it would work.

Mark Gurman also expects that Apple will need to find a partner, a local partner, to create the off-site capabilities that are handled by Apple's private cloud compute. I would question whether it will actually be private cloud compute that will handle these. No. Well, it's in China, so it can't be private cloud compute. There has to be a cloud. There has to be a cloud alternative, right? Because some stuff's not being done on device. Yeah.

Basically, like everything else in China, there will be an alternative that will provide kind of a parallel feature set that is just for China, that follows Chinese law. That's how Apple has been... That's why Apple's in China and not...

you know, is allowed to sell phones in China is because they have, you know, support for Chinese search and Chinese social media. And, you know, all of this is because China is running an, you know, an alternate internet, essentially, and alternate websites and alternate features. And that's just, that's, if you want to be in China, this is what you do. They must really want these features in China. Yeah.

I'm sure they do. I'm sure they really want to be a player there. This just feels, I don't know what, this just feels really weird to me. I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised because of all of the things that I know they already do. But I think it's kind of like, you know, every time like a stone gets added to the pile, you know, like, so there is this, so it's like, I just take for granted the fact that they do all of the stuff that they do to cooperate with the censorship in China, right?

And then it's like, oh, we're also now going to add something into our technology stack. We're going to do that. We're going to add that in to just this on-device censorship.

They keep doing it. I think that they actually see that there's an advantage here where not only are they competing with Chinese companies, but they've, you know, it, it allows them to continue to be a Western company that plays in China. And some of their biggest competition in terms of AI is not in China. So if they can work with Chinese partners and have their own models, it gives them, uh, you know, a leg up over some of the other competition, unlike in other models or in other countries where they are, uh,

behind. Maybe here it's a little bit different. But yeah, I mean, there is a question which is when is it no longer worth it to customize everything and just to remain in the Chinese market? But given how invested Apple is in China, I think that that's a long way off.

We mentioned it in our draft, but more important from Mark Gurman suggests Apple is struggling to roll out their remaining Apple Intelligence features. It seems that the ability to power the personal context, on-screen awareness component, and on-screen awareness components of Siri, as well as the ability to control apps via app intents,

are facing severe engineering problems that could be significant enough to either postpone the features or limit their functionality if they are released in 18.4. One limit could be, for example, to include them but turn them off by default, making users go in to turn them on. Right. It's a beta that is off by default or something like that. Yeah. That's a really great endorsement. Not quite. And as I said, I put this in our draft picks before Mark Gurman's report came out.

That what if this is so hard, basically, that they can't get it in or they delay it or they pull part of it out or they push it to 18.5 or they push it to 19? What then? Or I think just as possible, which is they have and they've been kind of vague about it, but like that they had a concept for what they were going to ship back last year.

And now that they need to ship something, it wouldn't surprise me if what they ship is dramatically pared back from what they were thinking they would ship. And that the bulk of that then gets rolled into iOS 19 features instead. Because they realized that to get to the concept that they showed, they actually have to do much, much more underpinning work that they didn't know that they would have to do or something like that. And this was always a next year feature when they announced it in June. Yeah.

And so I don't want to jump on you. You have a note in our little show document here. But just to further my thought, I'm going to quote from your thought, which is if you're that far out, you really are. There's like a line, right? Which is like, what are we going to have in 11 months? And you have to make a call of like, yeah, we can ship that. Yeah, we'll ship that next spring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll do it.

And this is the danger, right? This is the danger of looking all that way out nine, 10 months into the future is the further out you go, the more chance there is that by the time you get there, you think, oh, no, we can't do this. We can't ship this. If you are showing software, if you're Apple and you're showing software that you don't believe you can ship to customers for 10 to 11 months, it means it's not working.

And if something is not working, maybe you shouldn't, like maybe you don't announce it. Here's the thing though. There's almost no penalty to them because they, last June, they wanted to make a splash about Apple intelligence. And let's be honest, maybe the most intriguing, certainly for some of us, of everything Apple did was,

was talk about the semantic index personal context. Absolutely. Looking at your screen, they had the whole demo of being able to ask for the reservation to change based on the mom's flight schedule.

And it was able to look up the mom's flight and, you know, put on the calendar. I had to look at an email and do all these things. It was really Apple saying, this is the kind of stuff that really is going to set Apple apart. And I wrote a lot about the semantic index and how, and the onscreen awareness and how that is a game changer for Apple, right?

That's why they announced it last June. And that even though they weren't probably sure if they could actually make it happen. And so if they don't ship it or they ship it late or it goes rolled into 19 and they say, sorry, it's just taken longer and we're still working on it. I know that they'll take a penalty for that. But I'll tell you this. I am 100% sure.

It is not as big a penalty as they would have taken by not having it in their presentation. You're absolutely correct. No, you're absolutely correct. Yes. So you put it in there. They got the bump that they needed and then if it ships later, whatever, or if it never ships, whatever. Yeah. In hindsight, sure. But like at the time, if the week before WWDC this year, we look at the state of affairs on the iPhone and then backtrack that to what a, you know, the real key

keynote would have looked like the previous June of what they were actually going to deliver, it would be worse, like appreciably worse, probably. And again, I mean, does that mean that they lied? I don't think so. Does that mean that they maybe took a larger risk about over-promising than they would normally because they felt they needed to make an impression? Absolutely. Yeah, if WWDC 2024 was, hey,

we're going to let you rewrite some text, make some emoji, and we're going to summarize your notifications. But only some of them. We would have been even more upset than we already were, right? Because it would have been, oh, so you're doing all this and it's not really anything. I mean, seriously, the killer feature was, ah, because we

We know all about you. What we're going to be able to do is create a semantic index of the contents on your device and on your device, we're going to be able to infer things from it. And that was the truly whizzy, amazing, futuristic, oh, Apple's in the game part of that presentation. And is it any wonder that it was the last ship and hasn't shipped and isn't in the beta and might even struggle to make it in? Not really. I mean, it was super ambitious, but also it was a huge part of Apple's narrative building back last June. And so, you know, I...

I'll just put it another way here. Do you think anybody at Apple regrets making those promises, even if they can't deliver them right now? No, they don't. They don't regret it. Yeah. They don't. It worked for them. And yeah, and none of our I told you so's are going to

counterbalance the fact that it gave Apple a bunch of steam back in June. Yeah, realistically, while we will make fun of them, they shouldn't have to care about that. They don't care. They'll take it. It was worth it. You had it in the ads. They also don't care. They don't care. Because when they made those ads, the features weren't

Shipping and, you know, so that they realistically, they don't have to care about that. Provided that they do at some point ship those features. Right. Realistically, it's fine. Right. And my money is on them shipping reduced functionality versions of those features. Dramatically reduced. It'll only work on certain data types.

Yeah, on certain data types in certain apps that are Apple apps in very, very limited context and maybe labeled as a beta, maybe turned off by default, but it'll ship before WWDC. Maybe not even in 18.4, maybe in 18.5. I think they will ship something, but what will have happened behind the scenes is that a lot of the stuff they expected to ship will all get deferred to 19.0.

Yeah, my bet is some of this ships at least one of these three things, which is personal context, on-screen awareness, and the app intents, just goes to 19. And I think it's app intents. Could be. I think app intents does not make iOS 18 at all. Could be. Because that feels like, to me, the most complicated part to make work properly and is also the thing that requires the most buy-in.

Yeah, I mean, they could limit it. I think the only argument I would make about App Intents making it in is that they can make it App Intents based on like three apps that are Apple apps. Yeah, that's fair. No, that's fair. Maybe it's not the hardest. Maybe the hardest is personal context in that regard, right? Because that is like a, we know everything that's going on on your device. On your device, yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's really interesting the suggestion that they might ship it and turn it off by default. Then it's essentially a beta test application

Even in the shipping software where it's like, if you know, you know, otherwise just leave it off. And it allows them to say they shipped it. But that's where we are with this feature. Right. But it was worth it. It was worth it for them in terms of the press. In hindsight, it's like, yeah, that made the Apple intelligence vision seem a lot better. And they were essentially selling us something that even at the time we knew was sort of like step one down a path to a much more glorious future. But it turns out that that step might not even happen until the following year.

MacRumors has shared a report from display analyst Ross Young that Apple is working on a new external display with mini-LED. This is expected to debut at some time this year. So this is my questions for you, Jason. Is this a studio display? Is it a new display? Is it the end of the Pro Display XDR?

Yeah. Well, I mean, the Ross Young report suggests that this is a new studio display and that Apple is not interested in updating the Pro Display XDR. And I'm sure...

You can listen to your accidental tech podcast and they'll have lots of thoughts about this because that's a podcast populated by two-thirds of the hosts of their own Pro Display XDRs. But this report suggests that Apple's just not interested in that design and they are interested in a new studio display. Now, maybe they would keep the old studio display around and put this one above it or something. I don't know. Or they'll just replace it. But this sounds like... And it's not that exciting a product here because it really sounds like it's the studio display

with a better backlight rig. That's it. So like imagine a more HDR studio display with a presumably that better webcam as well, the iMac webcam. That's probably what this is. So I would say I walked away from that report being not impressed because it sounded like Apple was back to doing the minimum here, which is after many years, they will do a minor update to the studio display to make it a little bit better and

you know, and yeah, will it have high frame rate? I don't know. Well, I hope so. Is it 27? Maybe? ProMotion is what I want on this display. Yeah, I know. Because, I mean, look, the mini LED display on the iPad Pro have ProMotion. Like, they, you know, they know how to do this. That would be a great, a great update for the studio display. Even if it was just a studio display, it would be a great update.

And it would justify a higher price than, you know, because Studio Display is still out there, but like there are many now displays that are comparable in functionality that are cheaper, either cheaper list price or cheaper street price. And so that would be a good upgrade for them to say, oh, well, the Studio Display 2 now has, you know, brighter dynamic range, promotion, you know, hooray. Get this, Jason. Studio Display remains. Yeah.

Studio Display with Mini LED, ProMotion, Studio Display Pro. It's more expensive. Yeah, could absolutely be. Or they could call Studio Display XDR or HDR or whatever too. I think the Pro Display, they've got to get rid of that thing. They've got to get that thing out of there. I think you're right. I think that Pro Display is a goner.

Isn't the... Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Studio Display have some specs that are better than the Pro Display? Isn't there like some weird... There's like some areas in which it is better. Or maybe it's the displays in the MacBook Pros are significantly better than the Studio Display's display in some areas? Certainly. That is certainly the case. Certainly the case. Yeah. Because, yeah, I just think...

Again, it's like the studio display... So the Pro display reminds me of the iMac Pro, right? It was just from a different time, and we're not in that time anymore. It's like a Mac Pro display, basically. And we know how important the Mac Pro is. I think the studio display...

I love that Apple finally is making a display again, right? That was a huge thing where they were out of, they said they were out of the business and then they came back with the studio, the pro display XPR and then the studio display, the studio display feels like a more appropriate product for Apple's current product line that allows them to say, you can dock it with a laptop. You can use our Mac mini and our Mac studio with it. That's what it's for. And like, it's nice and it's going to be more expensive than the monitors you could buy elsewhere. But you know, it's from Apple. It's really nice. It fits our, our aesthetic needs.

I have two, right? I have two. And I'm very happy with them, honestly, because they are all of those things. It's nice. It's basically the old iMac display, right? Which was good, the 27-inch iMac display. If they don't make a 27-inch iMac, Mark Gurman had a report where he was like, yeah, they might do that eventually that he tossed off. It's like, okay, I'll believe a 27-inch iMac is coming when they announce it and not before. But yeah, no, it's good. It's good. They should... I...

The studio display is the product that they need to be focusing on if they're going to make a display. And they should make a really nice display for people who are willing to spend a little more for an Apple product for them to pair with primarily their laptops, because most Macs are laptops, but also the desktop Macs can attach to it. That's it. The thing that I just cannot get my head around is that no matter what display you buy from Apple, if you have a MacBook Pro and you plug it into that display, you have a worse display.

100%? The MacBook Pro display is so good and they have nothing comparable on the desktop. And I think that they, I believe that they should because I think they're doing a disservice to MacBook Pro customers. I hear that the MacBook Pro display is really good. I have one right in front of me, but it's always closed. You never see it, right? That's just a shame this computer is capable of driving such a great display and you don't get to experience it because you use it stocked.

My keyboard gets to see it on a regular basis. Your keyboard's in there like, whoa, man, this is amazing. They're snuggling. Trackpad's loving it. Loving it. Final Mark Gurman report, final rumor roundup report. I guess this is my final rumor roundup for a long time. Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple have a big Vision OS 2.4 update on the way. This article was really surprising to me. So,

Vision OS 2.4 will probably go into beta within the next week or so. It's going to get Apple Intelligence. It's going to get writing tools with ChatGPT. It's going to get Gemmoji. It's going to get Image Playgrounds. Yep.

So they're the first features. Maybe it'll get other little bits and bobs, but it's getting stuff. There will be a new, quote, spatial content app that will allow users to view 3D images and panoramas from third parties. Don't know what that means, really. Like I can conceptualize what it is, but I don't.

and I don't understand it, like is it just a viewer? Can you go in there and see stuff? I'm not sure. And then changes to guest mode to quote, potentially make it easier for multiple users in one home to share the headset. Something that Mark gives as an example is, so with Vision Pro, if I want to give my Vision Pro to Jason,

When I set it up, it's like, what apps would you like to be used? Like that the other person can see. You can say everything that's open or you can choose a list. And it's actually very cumbersome to kind of like choose the list of apps that you want. One of the things that is said to be added is...

you'll be able to do this from an iPhone so that someone could put it on and you could put it, it would be into guest mode and you'd be like, I want this app, this app, this app, and this app. And then they'll be able to use it. And my hope would be you could maybe while they're in the session, turn some apps on if they want to try things out. So,

That's that. And also, game controller support, I want to see. This wasn't in Mark's reporting. No. We've moved into the wishcasting segment. This is what I want to see. So that's the information. You hear it. I don't have a ton to say about it because I don't understand it. The reporting is spotty. These are things that are happening, but there's a lot of implementation details that I would like to know more about. Something we talked about when Vision Pro turned one was...

I have been impressed at how they brought that platform forward over the last year. It has gotten lots of updates that have made it appreciably better. So this report suggesting that Apple intelligence is coming, which they, you know, it was one of those things that was not promised initially, but then there was sort of behind the scenes. It was like, well, of course it will, but they weren't ready to sort of commit to it in the same timeframe as Apple's other platforms. But here it is. If this report is accurate, along with some, we complain about,

Spatial content. And, you know, Mark says there's going to be a showcase for it. And we complain about guest mode. And Mark says there'll be a better guest mode. It's like, great. Like, great. These are literally, I know Vision Pro is a complicated subject and a lot of people have strong feelings about it. But I will say, as somebody who's got one, undeniably, it keeps getting better. Yeah.

And that is good. So I hope this is all really great. And I look forward to seeing the official announcement of this whenever that occurs. Every point update for the Vision Pro has seen significant change, which is not what you can say for every point update of the other operating systems. Now,

This is a younger operating system, so it makes sense that it would, but it is great that they are doing that. Like every point update is bringing with it stuff that is very good. But game controller support,

I want that. That was rumored. I want them to do that. I hoped, me and Federico were hoping, like Sony had an event last week and we were hoping that they were going to announce that, but they didn't. And so we're still hoping for something. I really want to be able to play some cool games. But I do think, like I was talking about this with Federico and John Voorhees, we talk about video games a lot. There probably needs to be a game that comes with this.

Sure, sure. It'd be interesting to see what that is. It could be a Sony game. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Can you get that fun Sony Astro Bot? Can we get Astro Bot in there? It all depends on just how powerful processing-wise the Vision Pro really would be for a game. And that's a question that I can't answer.

Well, Astro Bot for the previous generation, the original PSVR. The rescue mission? I mean, you would hope so. Yeah, surely it could do that. Yeah, you would hope so. And that's one of my all-time favorite VR things is Astro Bot rescue mission. So good. So good.

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I wonder if there's going to be lasers. Watch the lasers, baby. Watch them. Watch them. That's the selection of questions that I picked out for some of the ones we had sent in. Maybe you want to read them to me, Jason. Oh, sure. Steven asks, Mike, do you plan on purchasing a big camera like a mirrorless camera or will you rely only on your iPhone for photos of your newborn? Or perhaps you will take a hybrid approach and hire a professional for special occasions and annual shots and use your iPhone for the rest.

So I have a Sony camera of which the name I don't remember. DSR-1032MW. I think it's a... Something like that. It's a Sony a6400 mirrorless camera. Oh, okay. The one that everybody has. Yeah, I got that one. I bought this for streaming.

Because it's a good quality camera for streaming. But I've also used it for some product photography stuff. I today put it in my backpack to take home. This was suggested to me from friend of the show underscore David Smith.

He said, just put it in the bag and take it to the hospital because you will want these pictures forever and you want them to look the best they could possibly look. You're only going to get these photos once. Do it. Now, I don't expect to... I'm not going to take all my photos with this camera. But maybe we're in a recovery room and take some pictures of my...

wife and my daughter. I can't believe I'm saying these words. That will be an incredible thing and I will be very happy for the rest of my life that I had the best possible camera with me to take some of these photos so I have a selection of them. So I'm planning to do it for that. Outside of that, I don't

I don't know. I don't expect to want more than my iPhone for like just kind of like the average stuff. And I don't know, special occasions. I have no idea yet, but I know that the first occasion that I can think of is the birth and I have my plan for that one. It's good. The good start. I like it. Logan writes, what are you and Adina going to have your kid call you when it is older? Are you a daddy and mommy couple or something different? And what about grandparent names?

The grandparents part is easy because of the England and Romania of it all. So we can have nanny and granddad, which would be what we'd do, and then bunica, or beca, which would be for how you would say grandma. The mum and dad of it all is complicated for me. I'm not sure about yet. So I think Idina feels pretty... She's leaning towards mumma,

because that is what she is used to and now i i don't have like i don't have a lot of association to like dad which is we don't need to get into this you know but like i don't have like a lot of association with that

And so I kind of feel like mama and papa, they sound nice and they work together. And that is kind of how we've been referring to it. But also I know that it's, I guess to some element, maybe the kid will want to decide. I don't know really. It can happen. Yeah. Sometimes they just do what they want. That's the thing about kids. You can't just tell them you shall refer to me as papa only. Yeah.

Can't be done. But I think there will be a combo of mama and papa and mom and dad. That's what I imagine we'll have that combo. Because I like papa. I think it's quite sweet, actually.

The child turns 10 and they're like, I'm not calling you mama anymore. You're a mother. Mother and father. Yes, mother. My mom refers to her parents as mother and daddy, which I thought just says a lot about her relationship with her parents. Mother. Yes, mother. Daddy. Mommy and Mike. Yep.

Adam writes, what type of YouTube videos do you watch? How do you expect that to differ post-child? I find this a funny question because I don't really know about the first part. I watch lots of types of YouTube videos. I think one thing that people say, here's the thing for me, Jason. I'm going to try my best for this one. This is me as current Mike looking at future Mike and trying to see if I can put any line in. I want to try my very best to have

My child avoid YouTube. Okay. I want to try and keep YouTube away from her in her younger years because I feel like even with YouTube kids, there's just, it's too easy to get into some like weird content, right? Like just like unsettling stuff. And there's so much content on all of the streaming services that we have for kids that

are you know that are good right and i'm sure that we will find some youtube shows that we could watch i mean i've heard i heard very good things about about a show called miss rachel i think that there's even doing some netflix specials but i've heard good things about that

So, yeah, maybe. But the idea of like just YouTube just being a thing that we choose kids stuff from, I'm going to try and not. I'm going to try and avoid that. I mean, we have Disney, right? We have the BBC. I think between that we can probably get through.

what we want. But if, you know, if we do go with YouTube stuff, I'm going to do my absolute best to have a separate profile. I don't want, I want to try my best to not ruin my YouTube with just all kids stuff, you know? Good point. I have an alternate answer to these two questions, Mike, which is, what types of YouTube videos do you watch? Long ones. How do you expect that to differ post-child? Short ones. Yeah, that's actually, that's a very good one. Yeah, that's going to happen. Yeah.

I'm really interested about how my kind of like what my content consumption looks like post. It would be intriguing to me to see what stays and what doesn't. What are the things that I think are maybe important to me now that I'm happy to let go of? Like it's going to be... I'm interested to see what that looks like. Yeah. I mean, prioritization is...

is a thing that you kind of can't know until you're in the moment. You're like, I'm not going to catch up with that. I'm going to do this thing, especially since so much of it when you've got a young baby is opportunistic. So you end up with, well, maybe I'll sleep now or maybe I'll watch this short thing and fall asleep. Whereas before you might have been like, oh, this seemed like it was important to me, but I'm not going to do it. I'm just not feeling it. We'll find out.

And also, like, I wonder, you know, me and Idina watch a lot of shows together. I wonder if that will remain the same or if maybe we will prioritize different things and watch them together but separately, you know? Could be. Because we have certain types of content that maybe we value more than others. And if we have less time together that maybe it's like, I want to watch one thing, she wants to watch the other, and we do that. Or maybe, like...

We watch less TV together. I play more games while she's watching TV. You know, like that kind of thing. It's going to be interesting to me to see what is the content mix when we have way less time. Yeah, exactly. Rosemary asks, what milestones are you most looking forward to and how are you planning on documenting them? So with the milestones, I've had lots of good advice from parents in my life who

urge me to try not to get ahead of myself with milestones. Because every phase that you're in will stop. I don't want to wish away the moments that I have.

But in the near future, I guess talking will be great. Like that will be a big one for me. I care more about talking than walking. And I would imagine different parents have different feelings than that. But the talking I look forward to very much. When it comes to documenting, as well as the obvious of photos and videos, I am working on, both me and Idina are working on journaling the moments quite

quite specifically like to to be spending time like reflecting on how this whole process makes us feel i've been doing that for the last year anyway like separately to my usual journaling and like journaling a lot about what this process has been like and we're both going to try and do that um going forward as well which i think will be nice for us and then maybe i don't know maybe nice to reflect on as a family later on in life

I, um, I was definitely one of those people who the walking was a big milestone. Yeah. Um, uh, you know, kids talk at different ages and there's all sorts of different things that happen with that. I will, I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice right now, which is as your, as your baby, um, you know, the first few months we can do this when you're back because the first few months the baby really doesn't do anything. Um, but, um, children can communicate before they can talk.

And we had a great success teaching our babies some hand signs, some baby signs. Because that's the truth of it is their brains are developed enough to communicate via hand signals way before they're able to speak. And mostly they go away and they don't use them after they can talk because talking is way more efficient. But it was really great because our babies could say, I want to nurse now or I'm hungry now way before they could talk.

By doing a hand gesture. It's pretty cool. I'll look into this. I like this idea. That's really good. Even if you just don't sound hungry. Yeah. Or up. And we ended up with up and cat and all sorts of baby signs are fun. Very nice. All right. And finally. Oh, Mike. Finally.

In so many ways. This is Gabe. Last episode, Mike mentioned he has smart radiator valves. Hey, look, if you got the things you need to know from me, you got to know them now. Get it out now.

I recently moved into my first house, which dates from the 1930s and has old radiators with old painted over valve knobs. I was interested in any kind of smart radiator valves, but could only find sketchy looking ones from Alibaba. Can Mike talk more about what he is using in the studio? The soon to be very cold and abandoned studio. Yeah, I can't. I'm interested about the painted over valve knobs. That sounds rough. I mean, I'm assuming it is adjustable, but.

I use a product from Eve called the Eve Thermo. It's a very clever thing where you essentially remove the radiator control, which is just a dial that you turn. It's a numeric dial on these old radiators. You've got like 1 to 10 or whatever. And that just increases and decreases the amount of heat.

So you can unscrew those and when you unscrew them, it's very scary for a second because the radiator goes from zero to 100%, right? It's because you've unscrewed the valve. But then you just screw these back on and it is essentially like a little motor, right?

and you request a temperature through a smart home app. And I said, it has a thermometer inside, which I think is problematic as the way to judge the temperature. Because it's right there. Because it's right there. And you can adjust them. You could have it set by an automation by a temperature controller in the room. Maybe you put in the middle of the room, you have a temperature sensor and you can say, turn off and turn on that kind of thing. But this is a product

that. I've used these for five years. I have found them to be very reliable. The only reliability issues I've had are HomeKit reliability issues, not reliability issues with the product. And it is a very simple kind of idea of like all it's doing is, is

operating the valve for you but it is it's really good because you can make old technology smart again by basically putting one of these on a radiator valve that it's a very good product i really recommend it if you have kind of more old school uh radiators you know that are not electric or whatever so very cool

That's it. That's it. All right. If you want to send in feedback, follow up and questions, go to upgradefeedback.com. So long suckers. You can say whatever you like. I'm not going to read it. Thank you to our members and supporters of Upgrade Plus. Go to getupgradeplus.com. If you want to buy a gift for my baby, get yourself an Upgrade Plus membership. That's what I'll say. That will help support me and my family.

If you want to find this show on YouTube, you want to watch us along, you can go to find us as Upgrade Podcast. You just go search for us. Thank you to our sponsors this week. Delete Me, Google Gemini, Fitbod, and Squarespace. I'm getting a little bit emotional right now. I'm going to be gone for a long time, probably like two months, because I really want to focus on this part of my life, and I want to thank Jason in front of everybody.

because Jason was incredibly encouraging for me to take a long leave, which I really appreciated because it made me feel confident that I could do it because this is something that I wanted to do. So Jason, thank you for holding down the fault for me and for us. And I'm very excited to be a listener of this show for a couple of months.

but I have things that I need to go and attend to. So please miss me, and I'll be back sometime in April. Until next time, say goodbye, Jason Stone. Goodbye, Mike Hurley.