Elon Musk Tells Advertisers "Go F*** Yourself!", and Racist Football Fan | Pirate Wires Podcast #25 🏴‍☠️
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Go ourself.

go yourself. Little racist. The anything needs to speak out .

against the kansas city chief fan and black face.

So I ve already loit. I've never seen a ratio like this.

This is totally up. My kid is a native american.

The internet not going to accept this. The internet different, twitter especially is different.

Welcome back to the pod. We have a pack show for you today day um last week off of thanksgiving visibly hope you'll caught the Peter interview um I wanted get right into IT I want talk about this little kid I don't know if I saw this. This little kid wore black face to a foot all game.

You guys see this. Anyone see the black face did messed up the way that kid work. Black face, that little folking racist, seven year old, five year old racist. Um obviously we're talking right now about a desk in article um which rody's ly accused a small child of being racist in the hopes of having in my guest cancelled, shamed on a national stage, international stage not entirely sure a lot to one packed your brand want to break down the actual news item for those of us who may be listening but not .

quite as extremely online as the people in this immediate sure um so on on monday that been published a an article with the hero image of a kid at a kansas city chief game which took place on sunday the day before playing the loss veggies raters um with his his face appeared to be in black face and he was wearing a native american headdress. Ah yeah so the headline, what was what was the headline? You guys remember little racist .

likes football. The headline .

was this .

little racist. The headline .

was the nfl is to speak out against the kansas city chief s fan and black, this and native headdresses .

of siam art loving. The nfl needs to speak out against the five year old.

Yes, the caption of the image that they included, which was just a screen shot of the C B S, uh, broadcast to the game, is chief s fan on sunday, a native of american headdress and black face. This caption remains. I'm looking at the article right now so you've not changed IT yet um anyways IT IT was sort of quickly uh the internet kind of came to the rescue and quickly establish the fact that only one half of this kid's face was painted black. The other half, of course, was painted red because those are the chief s colors and he .

was a football game as we have seen people dress up at football games since. Football has existed, maybe ever, but certainly on television, i'll think i've ever seen a foobar game where some idio didn't have half these space painted in two different colors, the headdress, however, a little, maybe a little more difficult to explain.

Well, so kansas city, uh their team is called the chiefs the chiefs yes. So um and chief s refers here to a native american chief so and so it's basically their mascot and it's quite common for people to wear headdresses to the game as well in support of their team and so this um looks like five year old kindergartener was uh just essentially supporting his team um within a few days that came out and so his mom posted on facebook and said basically this is totally dub why did you guys do this? My kid is a native american, just true.

So his grandfather, you can look this up, is literally on a tribal council of santa in as band of trim's indians. And like, you can like, look this up is like a tribal elder. So, so, so basically like the the internet comes to the rescue is is like, look, number one, he's not wearing black face. He's just supporting his team. Number two, his native americans. Here are receipts and today, which is thursday, we're putting on thursday that's been finally updated their article um IT took a long time but they they finally did um but I when I was looked at I was kind of dismay in to see that all they did to update the article was to double down on the black face accusation and the header s accusation. The update is now A T they included a statement from the santa in as board of trimark indians saying that they, they do not, they do not endore swearing regalia as part of a costume.

So I there a lot of interesting things about this one. Obviously, I I actually was surprised IT was still happening because my sense immediately unseeing the controversy was like the internet not gna accept this. Like how do you write a story? We're not in twenty seventeen and any more around in twenty eighteen and twenty twenty anymore.

The worlds very, very different. The internet different, twitter especially is different. And you all get away with this kind of stuff anymore. There's like fake accusations of racism when other stuff comes out, even if IT what like. Let's say the worst case in area here was like this kid for some reason had payout.

Is space black to go see a chip scape? He still five so like you're attacking a fide world um this is the obviously uh sort of zome corpse of gok or media which won is surprising that that has been I forgot they were still publishing stuff. I thought they were completely out of business, but they are not too.

It's funny that they're still totally evil um in and three like this reaction that brand which is adding to I mean this i've never seen a ratio like this truly i'm not exaggerating. I ve never seen one quite so extreme because IT has extended beyond the tweet. So every single tweet that this guy and dead spin, not just, not just to get the writer, but dead spin, everything they put out, get ratio.

We're talking like a week later. People are mad like thousands of tweet on each one hundred, at least on each thing in aggregate probably tens of thousands of tweet about this, if not more um people are pits. People don't like fake accusations of racism and they really don't like going after children and they really don't like when you double, triple, quad druel down um when it's very clear that you just made a series of mistakes here and got the whole story wrong and uh and shot your maths off.

But for me this is like a major vibe shift situation. I mean, we've talked to Better for a while. The vibe has shifted. But this is just if you there is any doubt at all, I think now this story is the perfect the perfect tell. I mean, you guys maybe don't remember, I know about you guys, I mean river and you probably remember um docker at the scene of its power because that was back in two and fifteen really when they were just like and you would have bend yet not super unlike at that point or not like we were um but what a fall from great I mean this is to be the the internet g stopper like everyone feared gocco and now this is like, um obviously docker was assassin by Peter um but this these like sort of remaining justices of the ones terrifying beast are just sort of like as they try and recapture the glorious in big are just constantly embarrassing the legacy of of evil I don't know what what did you take on this reverse to me?

I thought I was funny that the I believe was a writer of IT or somebody else IT that's but when IT was revealed, because the originally the reason people said he was black faces because he was like a profile, like he was, you going to see, have this space and when they showed that the other side was red, he was like, actually this is worse because that it's like red days or whatever, which is even great now because like the kids in indian and so it's like it's like indians do red face.

I don't let's talk about black phase really quick like, yeah I not american kEllie right now to be like what's wrong with black face? Like I like I understand what's wrong with black face if you're doing like a instal show um but my question is actually more like what is black face if your face just has black paint on IT?

Is that black face like there are surely many reasons why you might be painting your face black in costume uh or Better or red or a mix of the two. Um what about that star? I've see about that star wars dude, uh, the scary one with the double sided lightsaber from the like, new ones from the early twenty two thousands.

That dude is like, like, is that like face? Is that yeah, dark mall is dark mall. Black face, I don't like what are the rules here because you would think like, no, obviously like the same person would say that of course not like face, like it's a misal show.

He's like an evil alien. I don't think that everyone would say that. I mean, there are people who say that the augers and lot of the rings were black face, even though they were like a ethical evil creature, like has nothing to be race.

Like, what are you like? I completely made up thing, but people kind of will call anything black face. And and so it's like one is just is black pain on your face, black face to how much black paint has to be on your face before IT constitutes black face? So they you want to having to answer these questions. I don't want to make a any mistakes here.

I think there are two, there are basically two elements of black face to qualify as black face. One, your, your face has to be painted totally black til you have to be in costume of a black person. And in this situation, neither of those elements are are there with the kid because his face is not fully point black and he's not costume of a black person in the old elemental .

shows to IT wasn't just that like these were wide actors just sing up as by people think they were dressing up as like exaggerated, like the roomy big red loves that goes to make fun of black people so like, I mean, I I don't know, just like the idea that just like even I mean not the defend drug just to do or whatever.

But I was like like for people like doing like halloween costumes are where are they? Like like they're pretend to be a black person. Like is that really are they is the intent to make fund of like black people?

Probably there's never been a man in history. He is love. Black face is as much as just in trudeau. We've only so far have I think two I M this is an old controversy, and I wish that we were around a pie wires for when those black face pictures were coming out of you do and point taking about IT wasn't an initial show he was doing. He does, the man love to color his face black for whatever reason.

But when those pictures started at coming out, by the time in out of the second one, the first one was a huge control. The second was like, right? You putting me like people who ever get that that there was a second and then his response was not just sorry, they implied afford what the exact version tage was.

But I was really unlike they're implying that there are more pictures out there like we need to embrace, we need to imprint ourselves. For like a third, fourth, possibly fifth black face just in your to picture never came out. I'm still waiting. But yeah now that's not I I think this reminds me of um this whole conversation of not the little kid, obviously little kid that wasn't black face even in the way that like to ranged people online tend to think of black face ah also is little and IT was like IT was like the whole thing was really crazy um but the question of like the more new hands black face question perhaps that river we were looking to is like are you being made fun of or not is that what is the spirits behind the black face perhaps um this reminds me of all of the irony questions um that would come up when he comes to humor so um when Stephen colbert, I believe IT was made fun of.

He was making fun of a racist person and in so doing employed like anti asian jokes but he was making fun of people who do that like he was his whole the whole point of his joke was at like the person he was parroting was a racist against asian people. And then he was attacked online. This is the twenty teens, like heart of darkness, for this kind of stuff.

He was attacked for being anti asian because he just said the words. And we have this weird conversation online where he was like, but you understand the point of his joke, right? Like he's making fun of racist.

He saying a racist is bad for some reason. And i'm on two I have two thoughts on IT here. We're not allowed to address the actual point behind the sentiment. And I can't understand if it's like they know what the point is and they don't care or maybe these people is actually like they fundamentally lack humor, which would explain you know most of the last five or seven years. Um so I I don't know do you think to I think that .

it's a combination of both. I mean, I think that there is an extent to which they probably do like humour, but I also think they're just grasping for content and that like this was a this was a form of content that worked for a while like there was a time when you could get a lot of clicks by writing a story about someone I don't know doing black face or um yeah like a five old kid doing something apparently morally reprehensible. But I think the vibe shift that you're talking about shows that this is no longer I mean, you're going to get ratios if you do this kind of stuff nowadays. And so I think that this is probably like whether not these people just done of a sense of humor or if they're just um you know sort of unable to grasp p irony um to me almost besides the because I feel like the more interesting thing here is that like this form of media is falling out of style um and deadspin is like breathing it's tying gasps um and the person behind the article I think was just completely humiliated um so yeah I mean again.

if he did triple down IT IT was weird to me that he would but they make like like what what else can you do at that point other than kind of trying to frame the reaction to your bizarre racial tirade as itself racist and that's, I think, what he has to fall back on his you maybe really have to to drink your own cool ID and I don't know, pretend that you didn't just embarrass yourself on global stage which wasn't in Karen something .

that ma carren .

phillips or carren C A R R O N Karen phillips. Thank you.

In the .

world .

of racist five rules, we all are really grateful for the job well done. Oh yeah.

just good as same mean, like I think the context is a kind of important to is like this is that a cheese game? They've been there's an effort to try to get like them to change their name, like they got the red skids to change their name. I guess red skins does had a little bit other .

than that achieve. But like .

yeah does the yeah like it's it's some native americans, but it's actually a lot of like as so like White people who are like oh we're like making character tus of like gave americans or whatever. But like in a way like it's kind of like peak multicultural ism. You know what I mean? It's like we're like to celebrating.

Like it's like the the whole thing would like native american warriors is like they aren't like celebrated even though they were like tactically the enemies of the united states. IT was like even even like at the time, like IT was there sort of like bravery or whatever, and like defending their my end was like casing is like kind of like an Arnold, like cool thing. Like I think even you less granted is no name was like to consider something like there is like always this weird interchange where IT was like, yeah like we were taking their land that we also kind of thought they were bad ask for like defending yes yeah.

But I think because also IT wasn't I was thinking as a lot of the emma x of his own past and I would do we're not going to into today, but the question, what is your land and that's been thrown back on amErica a bit. Who are americans who are engaging this conversation is like, well, what is your land? You know, you stole that from me, the unions or whatever.

And in in israel, alliston people are talking about, you know, who ran the who on the land a hundred years ago and then who wed three thousand years ago. Whatever we're talking about, different kingdoms and governments, north america, or i'm a turtle island, was never that IT was. We're talking like hundreds of different south amErica and central america.

Yes, you have actual empires. And that you could say, like this land belonged to something in north america. IT was like tribes didn't think of the land that way.

A lot of these people were nomadic, were like romantic people's roaming the land. Uh, not all of them, no matic, but many were. And and there was no real official, like ownership of the land.

No, like, no government. No people who were like, this has been our land for milenio. No history, nothing.

So when delicious was, you know, midday named whatever he was ddd named, we're talking about a time when, like actually various stripes would be helping americans in this or that context uh, you know, the french allied with the some of the indian tribes against the british, like are they were just a part. Multiple tribes were a part of history in many different ways. So he wasn't just this. This, I don't know. We have this weird, like, cartoonish version of american history. We're like, there was this, like, native american people, this monolithic culture that was here first, that then we then took land from and because that's not true um history doesn't make sense in the in the context of that's when we talk about history, people are often I think confused about how you know the native american piece of IT all it's IT IT doesn't because like native american that's not the people that that is not .

a thing that existed IT was an uh grandma the way that was, uh uh William sherman, uh, who is another civil war general but he to hua I was like he was like A A nave american chief like united a much a tribe against .

amErica and is to cum hai will be wild you this is was an original name I forget IT now i'm forgetting a backing away as the original name was he gave himself you is just changed name from bob to you this is like why um I want to talk a little bit about uh I mean first like last thoughts on native americans, black face, red face. I mean, once last time one of you dressed up with feathers in your hair, would you still do .

IT today anything?

I actually I A kid yeah I was .

going na say there are now deleted in steam pictures I think from when I was liked twelve over thirteen um and my friend died I think later said IT was we dressed up as birthday ke or something .

um but IT was oh you were .

chocolate no, no, no we were we had war head addresses. Um what we .

said you try to play off birth day. How do you play off a headdress birth day? K.

I don't know like sort of candles we they were poorly made addresses we didn't buy that was handmade stuff, but we were not informed early at the time. So I dressed up .

as tonto from the longer anger when I was a kid, because I used to watch the old, like fifty T. V show with my grandpa, and I liked him. So there is.

I was A A ninja al for like three different years is why I dark Green face um and I got I mean I want just get that out there now I don't know so happened if these victus get out there um but i've definitely in Green face somewhere I believe I was roughly at first and then michell's elo, um not of this matters. Let's get out to you on mosk.

I want to talk about yesterday uh without two days ago of sorry uh under the day we're about to put out the uh the industry news letter and elon is in this interview that goes live with the new york times, you guys should really check out duffle interview. There is there's a lot of crazy shit here. I mean, there's one moment where elon, I I don't always say crazy.

I think by crazy, I don't mean he sound maybe we can talk about that a minute. I mean, IT was fun. This was a fun interview. There was one moment where details is sort of a gst, like globalist type audience that he himself is, like the single greatest force for environmental good in history, like, Better than any living human alive but like forever there's another par any displays tally deadpan another part where he says um to the guy interviewing, he says he says i'm only doing this because uh only doing this because on friends with you JoNathan, the the guy who is entering was um Andrew ross working like not named JoNathan at all but the one that got the most play was working is grilling and not be on advertising revenue. This has been a major conflict at the company for a while now.

So huge companies have been dropping, uh, have been pulling their advertising from the platform on grounds they say that it's unsafe, like this platform has all sorts of anti semitism and blab a blood on IT and it's all one small because he doesn't believe in moderation, IT said. Um in reality, as we've reported again and again and again here, and we kind of math the whole thing out the way this works as you have a whole bunch of nonprofits that exists solely to try and mainstream censorship, specifically political censorship on platforms like twitter. And the way they do that is they they drum up a bunch of like totally fraudulent research stories on like the rise of whatever sort of speech or how hate speech ends up next to brand advertisements and what not.

And they do like report on IT. They send IT to their friends in the press a who also want to see censorship on twitter. They write articles about IT and that either here gets ambiguous. It's like that either spooks the advertisers for real or the people were actually buying these ads. Um are I think they want the censorship as well, right? It's like this kind of unofficial align on the issue of like how do we make sure that people can disagree on topics like, for example, covered at the high of the cover um at the height of the copy pandemic.

So advertisers have been dropping recently especially um elands pressed about this on stage the a sorkin actually invokes what disney he said we bobic er on the stage he was about to say was that disney is not advertising on the platform and lon says I don't want them to and sort things like what talking about I we you don't want them to what I don't want them to advertise here and I wants like what and the audience is like quiet and nervous I think um it's like he seems you land seems very upset and he says, um you know, if IT i'm parthians ing here, which probably to play the clip quick if they want to black mail me, fuck them. Uh, what what was the exact phrasing? He said, fuck you or fuck off. A handful of times I wanted get a exactly right brand and pull up what exact quote.

go fuck yourself.

Go fuck yourself. But go fuck yourself.

He said, at twice, he said, if you want to black mail me with money, go fuck yourself. And then everybody just got silent. And then he said, go fuck yourself.

And then I talking just like what is going on here and the audience like, but there's .

like some .

time he does, hi bob. Go fuck yourself, bob. Bob, bigger of world, disney world. So this is crazy.

This is obviously, I mean, people get, but they can do anything about IT you as this platform. It's like, you know it's been dying. They safe for a year still standing um he doesn't need advertising revenue.

A baLance of advertisers have pulled uh we is a holistic c clothing reme internet somewhere uh a lot of major, major companies, including I believe last effective like for disney, a much of apple still polled because he has been public about that one on is going back and pork. But IT is definitely problem for the company. Uh, but he is being black.

He is being blackmail. What they want is aggressive. They say content, moderation um and what they mean by that is you will not be allowed to speak about certain topics because certain topics are considered by certain people, the factual races.

And I think the most sort of the easiest example of that would be immigration. There is almost no way to talk about illegal immigration without being perceived as by, you know, the entire open borders side of the conversation as racist. They genuinely believe that they believe, if you want less immigration to the country, legal or legal, either way, that is a racist position. And if you believe it's a racist position and that runs a file of the content moderation policies. And so in this way, you are making an entire side of a very important debate, not a loud so um I don't know what did you guys make of that that interview I know river .

you saw yeah I mean I think it's funny. Um you know as you are load to uh media matters which is one of these are like mercenary organizations. They um. You found a video that had like no views in basically allegedly like manipulated um the algorithm try to get an add to show to I think that actually what um when he was talking about black mall I think he was uh specific ally talking about why does pulled out which is when there's this infamous incident where ella someone was basically saying that why jewish americans had like supported censorship during B O M or something and so a this sort of whatever like .

the tapping .

with a israel palace now all the protest, however, like you're fault or something and he inside bike. You you like saying the truth or whatever and that's why disney pulled out and so I think that he's like when you like talking about bob iger, I think he's like like i'm going like i'm going to say what I want to own that for. Um so I think it's like it's kind of personal for you want to in a way because like people pulled out due to you know his own posting.

I mean, is that one tweet are talking about I remember that tweet IT was not a good tweet. You're right. Yeah IT sounded really bad. He clarified with like you know fifteen more tweet about the A D L, which he has been in public war with for you know like months at this point um because the A D L is behind a lot of the the platforming or a lot of the advertising stuff. They're the ones who when he's in conversations with executives about why they've pulled they're funding you know all roads the back to these people who he insists are I mean have he suing the ideal and early he said he was going to and now is I think also saying going assume the the matters over defamation um so that's time of the A D L. He was saying you're pushing these entry.

White people narratives are blab lab and a IT didn't sound great but the broader machine that people are asking for, we just saw Peters I hand leave twitter he uh Peters I hand the writer um who I liked uh still like I still like his books but uh his video on youtube was pretty disappointing and he talks about a few things and one of them was um the overall tenor was like, you know make twitter great again type argument is like, you know, back in the glorious of twitter three years ago. You know, this was a great place free of disinformation and it's like that was never true even if you don't count all of the official statements on cover as disinformation, which in hindsight they definitely were. Um there are always people.

There are always rushing bots. There are always rushing agents and chinese agents try not like play with our communication or whatever, like it's never been what people are talking about now. All people ever did on witter three years ago was complained about how terrible IT was.

That has not changed. My actual like use of twitter maybe changed. IT is like a little glitchy and there are a lot of bots still and they're like some like porn bots or whatever. But that's how was changed like day to day, that's how was change. And also like I don't live in fear of saying the wrong thing in being erased anymore um but that's what the the advertiser boycott is all about.

It's like, can we get back to a place where the state has the fact to control over what constitutes over what is considered true or false information, which we now know the state is in communication with all of the major platforms unofficially, and that was controlling or that was influencing what these platforms considered misinformation and not. And that's crazy. We don't.

We should not. No one should want to live in that world where the state is defected in charge of what is allowed to be spoken of on a major platform for speech. And so like I don't like, I don't want to get lost ever in the stupidity of like a single elon tweet.

Because if you just step back, IT is so obvious there, so much more important conflict here. And that is the conflict over. Like to discuss the debate over whether or not the average american is entitled to an opinion or not. And I believe the average american is, even though I disagree with the average american on almost everything, I think that they are allowed to speak, and we have to live in a world where they are allowed to speak .

the end yeah I think what's interesting to me about this this sort of flamboyant advertising advertisers pulling out of uh, twitter is that this is still a calculus that they think makes sense. Um maybe it's because I end a lot of time on twitter and then sort of around a lot of people who are um not favorable to this kind of person, sorry um mindset, but it's interesting to me that like disney still thinks it's a good idea to or still thinks that would be financially advantages to them to do this ultimately um because I think my my sense is that the calculus always um when they do things like this is this gonna a crew more like a larger audience to us right is is going to IT is interesting in especia .

light of what just happened with disney. So bob egg is back because disney was fAiling on account of all of the vogue films, right, like that, that very they have publicly said their goal now is to refocus on the joy of the audience. They want to get away from politics and and back to the kind of stories that I think are a little more universal.

And um I agree IT was strange that he has like waited into the swap here. He perhaps tried to do IT. Maybe he thought he was going to be quieter about IT or something. Maybe he didn't realize that italian with the kind of I was going to blow the spot up the new york times and like put a big spot I don't never mean Bobbye is now like the face of the advertiser boycott can imagine that he had wanted that I don't know yeah is is a weird IT was a weird choice for him like he should it's like the mean like you have just said there and at your food like you just did not have to get involved here um this all reminds me or not all this all is related to the ireland stuff.

Um I know if you guys followed the the news in ireland and all the riots in and what not anyone yeah yeah I can I how summarized IT really quick so um you have an algerian dude stabs a couple little kids, I think um one girl seriously wounded to hospitalized and IT trigger crazy riding in doublin and IT is perceived by the media obviously as a racist riot. It's a ride over the concept of like allegation ian existing in the country, which honestly IT might have been that you have like crazy immigration attention across the entire continent of europe right now in every single country that has let in a large amount of muslims into the country from either north africa or the middle ast uh or turkey, there are like a major cultural conflicts. We have a huge population in most of the western european countries now of people we're talking between five and percent where you have people who uh don't know the language in some instances have a totally different religion um are not interested in a simulation uh or maybe don't have access to a simulation.

Would be maybe the steel men of their position in either direction. The integration is not happening, and you will now have a culture in serious conflict. And so there are urgest tensions across the board, the media and the government in ireland is like this ride indicates that we are being bad in racist.

And we need to pass a law the way we're going to respond this is gonna pass a law, uh, about what you can say online. They're blaming the internet for the rising tensions over the question really of immigration is I think the galvanizing force here now there are some idiot slew of policies in some stupid das european country about speech and regulating IT. I think the one that makes this one worth bringing up, I don't like to focus on your rope I can help IT.

Um but but the one that this is the most aggressive one we've never seen not only a did the government say, you know, in the language of the proposed bill, not only are you not allowed to create hate speech, which super ambiguous term we can talk about, IT for hours doesn't mean anything is uses as a political weapon you are not allowed to have in your possession, on your phone any kind of hate speech and so what that means is like, and this is this right there in the language if you have so if you have a like a based peppy meme that is considered super racist and it's just like on your camera, all for any number of reasons that is illegal and that's crazy. That's like, I mean, you can Carry around certain books or whatever, that's that's a very alarming to me. And this is on the heels of a lot of attempted versions of this a throughout europe and also even in america.

AmErica in america, they always fell because the first moment is so strongly protected legally for over the last, you know, century and a half. They're an endless cases that have gone to scream court that have reformed fied the right to speech. So we're less risk of an official censorship here than we are of this sort of artificial al censorship that has been taking place over the last five to seven years.

Uh online. But yeah was crazy. And what do you make of the irish law about the means? Are you guys or guys afraid of travelling to double in with your camera roll? river?

Especially yeah, yeah. I think it's like crazy and troubling and especially for like a country that had we'd like a very long history in recent history of political of violence. I've been told the nineties, like you would think that people would be more uh cautious about like more paranoid about that sort of that currently not IT.

I mean the the irish constitution guarantees the right to freedom of expression. Um but i'm just like looking through G P. I'm using GPT right now. Um GPT doesn't the rates not include yeah yeah it's not absolute and subject to public order and morality .

considerations. Americans are always get this. I think a little bit we don't realized, I think, how unique our specific tradition of speech is.

And IT IT does not exist anywhere else across europe. And IT already didn't exist in ireland. In the U.

K. Like you could get in the U. K. There people have the cops have gone to houses of people who are posting things that we're considered um you know hateful.

And in france I think that was um is IT is a bridge pardo who has been um cited by the government. She's received citations like three or four times over antislavery reMarks. Remember a famously he said a in paris, not even the prostitutes are the same. Like she's like she's like to make friends great again type uh type women and she's costly getting in trouble like it's very common over there that I think the crazy thing here now is, is the intersection of the it's like the digital media peace specifically that I think about and how that impacts potentially all of us because these governments are not going to be they're not done with just like you know the U K.

Going to the door of fifty year old and the may for saying you shouldn't be so many turks on my igher or hood they're going to go to the social media companies and be like, who is this anonymous poster um what is their address? Where can I find them? Uh and people elon mark are going. And I guess the chinese government are going to have to either give the information to these governments or cease to Operate in europe and they're definitely going to give the named away.

I think an island has a lot of power over text to because attacks even and like apple is headquarter there at the a quarter there there's a lot of tech companies that are headquarter in our land for tax reasons. So they have like outsize control and .

that after or so there is a much yeah like do they demand because of this legislation? Is so sweeping, is there some kind of a demand for fundamental change to the platforms that these companies are going to have to do in order to Operate abroad, twitter in particular, in interesting case because if they don't have many people working.

So if ireland if the irish government, you know the german government, the french cover, they all demand some specific set of rules for twitter to Operate abroad. They're not going to be able to build fifteen, twenty different versions of twitter. It's going to be one version of twitter, and we're all going to be on IT. And that is really bad that I mean that I don't want to live in a world where the europeans are determining what our policy of online free speech looks like. That's like chilling and this topic.

have you ever been one of those emails saying that reported the government?

Yeah, I get a more than I used to get a model. They have stopped. Actually I don't I know I don't get anymore.

I talked about a once and salt I twist about a once in, elon commented, and he was like, we're going to take care of this. So maybe he he took care of IT. That was a while I ago, and I haven't seen one sense.

sorry. So I cut you off now just going to say that this is one of the the dimensions of a few months ago when when elan announced he was suing the center for countering digital hate um which he wrote about compared wires. This is one of the elements I thought was interesting was the fact that the center for countering digital hate has headquarters in london and dc and IT was started by a british guy with connections, I think, to the british labor government um and the labor party and IT was just IT sort of fortified for me the fact that yes, you said don't understand just how he used to censorship erep ans are I mean this happened in england um a few weeks ago. There was a case where a guy had like posted a video, I think where he was like pointing out palestinian flags or something in a pro palestine um rally and the metropolitan police showed up to his door and arrested him um because he had said something that they deemed to be hate speech um and this is the kind of thing that like european these are like headlines that I don't think really a bad eyelashes around a lot of europeans um for us they seem like patently insane um but I do think that it's interesting now that we're living in a world with these kind of international social media platforms that we all share, where you see these these competing ideas about free speech batting .

IT out yeah I just want a little international exposure as possible at this point. I just saw the U N. Come out and, uh, let anyone come out.

This is so they have said they are going to come out and request, uh, american people eat less meat um united nations, this is like A A thing that I guess the general general council and I think that myself like one, why does this exist? So like this is this like a toothless thing where funding this? Like why are we funding this ah where we funding you these random countries ability to going talk shit about our diet specifically within the two is like completely toothless.

Three, I don't want to you, I mean what is what you? I don't I don't want to live in this like bug eating world. I don't want to live in the third world where it's like why are they not eating meat? Is because they care about the environment, is because they're poor.

It's like they can't afford the meat. And like we want to live in a world where people are we have abundance and people can eat a nutritious meal. And like it's really it's just tedious to me.

I don't I hate these kinds of conversations. I hate that they spend their time all day talking about sheet like this. Um yeah we got to extract extricate ourselves from from this like nebula series of global, I don't know, entanglements or would you guys make of the meat thing?

I mean, maybe I feel like, or any of us here, if I know, is a vegetarian here. I think no. I mean, should should we be should we be forced? Should the M V, to tell us to eat less? Me, I don't know. Tell, what do you, what do you think about the U. N.

Seems like a calm strategy at the end of the day, like the, they'll come out and announced that american should left me every left leaning media organization repeat the headline in amErica and um that'll just be another I don't know, P, R campaign for, I don't know, d growth, D C, L. I don't know. I have trouble understanding the motivations behind an action like this. I don't think that they could possibly think that people will eat less meat because of what they say. That seems very unlikely to me that people will.

It's weird to be targeted towards just amErica also. Um it's not like where the only people eating meat were a real timely small population. Just when you look at like china and india, which are both.

china has a strategic pork reserve, I believe. I mean.

so their economies are growing. And as the economies grow, more people will eat the meat and know what time about populations that are many times bigger than hours. So if you care about just the animal welfare, that's where you would look.

If you care about the emissions, there are way bigger culprits also in china, in india. Um so they don't so like what what is the point of this? Uh, I don't get IT is IT maybe I mean, we talk about is a calm strategy is is just to get attention.

Are they like advertising that the U. N. Exist still? This reminds me maybe of Peter.

I feel like, you know, every, every holiday Peter says something insane like that. So insane that I need to have the one like this image. Actually a couple times they are IT back out.

I'm a ban APP. Honestly, they delighting away, and I know they're doing in our purpose. So I give them a free pass to a certain extent. They had one of IT was like a IT was a person on the thanksgiving table like curled up, uh like a thanksgiving roast with no head and then he was surrounded by like this like horrifying alien looking giant turkeys and he was like, I mean, the framing this year was, uh, turkey wouldn't do IT to you so why do you do IT to them?

Um in the community and community notes noted them and said, well, turkeys are on of all and they would do IT to you if they could but in the past years I feel like they said stuff just like, isn't this horrifying you know, like how would you like how would you feel if you on the menu or whatever but their point, they want to be ratio. They want that attention. They want everyone to see the thing they want just the idea of Peter to sort of be um in people's minds that this is even a question that you should maybe not be eating turkey or whatever for then I think that that's a win IT doesn't. Is that maybe what's happening with the U N?

Yeah that makes sense to me. I mean, I do. I I have I personally have issues with a industrial meat production, even though I do participate in the the purchase and consumption of industrially produced me.

But I think that the U. N. Is also probably just stayed by some of the crazier thing, people on the planet who I think we shouldn't having kids who think that um no one should ever eat meat for any reason. Um these are like, I mean, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theory, but like if you actually go through the plan that like twenty thirty plan that they put out IT is kind of insane um this sort of lifestyle changes that they want to push for on A A large scale.

So what is IT about? Because if you're right, the U N attracts a certain kind of person and it's not like to you. It's you know a formal representative, the united states going to talk about some important issue, foreign policy.

It's like it's all of the other people. It's a massive organization and there's like a lot of bullshit that happens there. But it's also prestigious to say that you work at the U N IT means something and I think that this certain kind of hyper, I mean, they tend to be no politically very laughed, they tend to be d growth.

They tend to be if not a vegetarian like certainly address and um they seem to be attracted to this kind of opposition. Very prestigious, a highly bureaucratic. These are the people who also populate pretty much every local government.

Um I what do you I don't know. I still don't know what to make of that. Like what is that that they are trying to do about other than the prestige? I mean, I like they don't get paid much, is that is IT maybe is IT maybe the pay is IT like, is IT like because there's no paid only attracts ideology or something.

It's like a trust fun kid's job. You know, it's like it's like a type of thing that you do because you feel like you're doing something I can pour on and it's like everything thing knows what the U M is um but IT doesn't making any money. But the time because you you don't need like end like that also create a certain type of light politics.

And there what you're like telling that americans stood e um let me which I think if you like went through the demographics of like who's eating me like you would probably be like you out there. I felt something like vegas zone is like very much like an upper middle class to phenomenon and like the working classes at trees, birds. Yeah, we've talked .

about deep a couple times now and side new these people who don't want to have kids and what not. There is this wild article. Um was the atlantic that came out, the new worker I think he was the new yorker yeah， was the new orka.

So the new yorker comes out with a couple of, I think, live a review of a couple of books on whether or not people should be having kids due to climate change and the various hours of of the day they were like you I was that even is IT just to bring kids into this world. Um brand, and you've been talking about the groth a bit. I mean, did you make anything of of this when I came out? You think it's part of some broader trend. Mean, how do you feel about about that?

I don't think it's new at all. And I think that in new york, ker probably isn't affected by I mean, I don't know who stands to benefit from this message, you know. And but I don't think the the new yorker has been sof influenced by some third party to write this article.

I think it's just a there they're capturing therefore, version a trend that hasn't yet been sort of discussed on the on the stage of of mainstream media. Um we covered red. The trends are some you to I don't know when I was like last february um with what I don't know what the separate was is .

called remember yes yeah .

the new thing at all just finally made IT made its way and that comes with interesting .

those that IT comes from different directions. So you have people who argue we shouldn't have a kids because it's bad for the world. You know that it's people cause emissions.

If if there are less, we were intense on the environment, there are less of us. There be more resources in one. I was like the stanovoi gum for potila ation.

Uh but then you know you also have people moralizing about the kids may say to bring a kid into the world is a moral for that because their life going to be so bad. And it's this ones it's it's unclear if these are actually too sad. They they present us two separate groups, but I don't think they are.

I think that among among both, there is just a fundamental drive right now from a certain kind of philosophically oriented person towards suicide. And that's what this I mean that's what this feels like to me. He feels like suicide radiation. And now we're celebrating in the pages of our most story literary magazines in the country. Um I don't decided you see the sincere between or you think maybe is this broader trend.

I think they're all part of the same sort of psychological archetype of fuel, which also has a lot to do with like myanmar. Py, I think um there is just a part. I mean, i've interviewed some anti attests um and sort of some for this the article that I read a few months ago um and what stood out to me reading through the red of posts and talking to people and getting a glimpse into their world view is that like a lot of them also just don't like kids and there's this kind of like almost defensive rhetoric of like yeah the kids are annoying and like you would be able to you know travel to all you won't able to have at all. You've got like you know kids vomiting at five B M or something and who need to go to school.

Not kind of think um I mean, I think that it's I think there is a sort of death drive component to IT of like this is all part of partial of this feeling that human is fundamentally evil. And so we shouldn't be producing new technology to prolong our lifespans. We shouldn't be uh reproducing.

We shouldn't love one another there. We're just fundamentally bad. Um and I think that's kind of the core philosophy at at the heart of all of this. Um and you can see how I think it's very well adaptive because if you really believe IT um you can see how can easily lead to depression, suicide impulses um yeah yeah is .

also like really no longer too because even if you like x up, that climate change is going to lead to like these awful ful like disasters or whatever, if you're like a middle class of amErica and you have a kid and bring them up in the next century, even if like all that, they're still gna live Better than like ninety five percent of people who have ever loved.

You know what I mean so it's like I think I mean, there's like people who live in like completely like absolute poverty and a like subs here in africa, like prints of asian stuff. We are still having like something kids like actual catastrophies. They are not studies on this actual catastrophes ars famine. And I got actually produced higher birthrates because people are like, oh, I got to have like one kind horizon to adult like to take care of me. So I wonder .

how much of this comes down to people having a hard time funding a relationship too. Because if you were happily coupled off and could have children, I know that just feels like a much bigger decision at that point. You know there's like a real powerful biological drive to procreate.

And I I don't know. I see a lot of childless, I mean, love childless women in the late thirties are a lot of, I mean, men in general. I feel like men, single men, never have really been like I don't need to have kids right now.

So that give you you're not in a couple and you kind of can't imagine a future for yourself with kids, then maybe you're just more likely to find some kind of moral justification for that and find solace in this. I've known my whole life, i've known one woman who truly just never wanted a kids and was always happily coupled off. And he was struggle with IT.

SHE would talk about IT all the time. I was like, he was very frustrated with the the imposition on her. And SHE really never wanted them. I think he had serious issues with her mom. And whatever IT was, I believed her. I was like, I believe that you don't want to have kids and he has nothing to do with the fact that you can't um but most other people i've met i've talked about this have been either very Young um and is like very college or older and not able to have kids.

Something something weird happened with the parents of millennial. I'm a millennial, and I grew up thinking that if I had a kid too early, IT would be like a premature death. I was absolutely terrified of having kids because my parents and the parents of my friends made IT seem like you.

You were forgoing some incredibly important period of development if you had a kid before you were twenty, let's say, and to have a kid when you were in high school was like, you know, that's just the end for you. Start let letter and I never, I never shoot that. I mean, I shoot IT off, but IT took me a long time to shake that that idea of of having kids is a fundamental and and quite possibly terrible restriction on your freedom.

And your freedom is the most important thing that you have. And I I actually don't think that's necessarily true, but I I feel like I was kind of brainwashed to believe that. And I think a lot of people my age who are probably not child, listen, maybe single, are still affected by that messaging. And I am still kind of confused me where that came from. I like to maybe do a story on and or something and really about what what was that all about you know because their parents didn't like our grandparents I don't think ever gave that message to our parents um but we got IT and and i'm kind of yes.

I I think that's really interesting. They also we have this from like health class, you know it's it's all the protection stuff that is that you cannot be pregnant um and then that feeling, you're right, it's still persist, be in their people in their thirties who solve this feeling. But the crazy that I mean there is this moment in, like you're mid to late twice when I remember people would have kids and friends of mine that that image twenty five, twenty six me like, oh wow, like she's Young.

It's like, no, like we're all like that's a fine age if you're twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven, your married that like perfectly find a va kid at that age and yet we perceive IT even now even now me saying that loud i'm like wow twenty five if I say they're like very that's this other thing that we do this infantilizing of people in their twins um like when this bought up against of something that river you've written about which is like the conversations around uh even the conversations around things like age of consent you know kena twenty three year old girl consent to sex with a thirty three year old man because the age gap is so big and she's really so Young when you think about IT and their experiences and blow blow blood like she's an adult, she's twenty three. I ve been twenty three. I was an adult to twenty three.

I know what twenty three feels like IT is yes I don't IT is prolonging of our youth um which maybe culturally makes a lot of sense and wouldn't IT be nice if we could be in our twice for the next I don't know, twenty, thirty years. But biologically IT doesn't work that way biologically i'm now in my thirties and ah my late i'm thirty eight. Like this is where this is immutable, able. Age is real though we are talking to brian Johnson and hopefully help some good news for us from the immortality front. I don't already make of the age gap stuff .

and the fatalities ation of the youth. Um I think it's kind of uh, there's there's like a big class upon to this. I think because it's people who have like masters degrees and what college until they are authority or whatever. And it's like, okay, now in thirty now I have a career now my wife is beginning. But if you're like if you go on go to college, like your life begins at like eighteen or fifteen or whatever, like my birth.

My brother um got married uh couple years ago and my friends who were like old as he I was like always twenty and he like this feels that was twenty and they were like that so Young as you pregnant I was like, no, I mean he just they want to get married and he has he was like a union of pressure piece of electricity an now he has to keep my mate more money than I do and like his wife is extending up uh, nursing school and it's like, yeah that they want to get married so he did is like nobody my family thought was weird because they all got married like relatives vely uh and but he was like, I don't know, was like my friends I was talking to there was like that's crazy which just also gay people like IT thought I was sa N G we twenty twenty five but you know I think I it's um it's definitely like. In the I think that goes along with the age gap thing too, because people who are just like, oh, I just felt like I felt like I was a kid at twenty three because I had never had like a real job and I had never had any real responsibility ties because I ve been in college as old time and just like idol party constantly and whatever. It's not actually, I think most people's experiences.

I think you also want to you want to look back and give yourself an excuse for being where you are yourself know if you're thirty five and single and you see a thirty five year old dating a twenty five year old, you're like, well, I couldn't have dated someone when I was twenty five or twenty three because I wasn't all cooked yet. I was at myself. I wasn't who I am.

I need to travel in experiences, things you that the girl verse and the diversion and be like, you know, I needed to get my career together or whatever else and that's just not really the case. Like in reality, you could get married you once you, an adult, want to finish off with, uh, something cata cool, which, uh, something you rationally read. A story for the lorst park, our local politics vertical that covers sanfords csco.

Uh, margie, tell us about the story really quick. And just a kind of recap. I think we talk about previous episodes. I want to recap really quick and then I want to say what happen.

Yeah so the story um is about an initiative and separate to school called the dream keeper initiative um which basically uh funs sixty million dollars a year into a bunch of different nonprofits ostensibly for the purpose of ensuring black joy in the city. It's got a bunch of very vae goals and we go through some of the more outrageous uh allocations of money in the article um but basically this is an initiative that was created um around the time of what the black lives matter protests and George floyd killing um although lots people left very angry comments on the article of that how George loyd wasn't actually killed. And so anyway we have to do .

a pds about that because I did I also do not realize how crazy that conversation are， not crazy, but like how much I had changed since I last clicked in.

So we'll come back to anyway. So this peace came out and revealed, I mean, people love for a long time and talking about non profit, the non profit industrial complex and sequences go but this week um there was an ordinance in the rules committee of the board of supervisors um which basically would urge the controller to periodically audit nonprofit contracts um and I personally think it's kind of insane that something like this isn't already in place um I treated about IT when a right before the the committee needing but it's like the ordinance is like yeah the controller should should look at how non profit they are spending their money more than once every ten years it's basically just of IT um but at the rules committee meeting a citizen basically um came with uh the dream keepers article on her phone and read uh two paragraphs from the article to the supervisors present including supervisor on willson who is uh key architect of dream keeper um and he was pretty bad as i'd like to read something from an article in dlorus park SHE just read the paragraph says he .

was like this is crazy and IT was was my favorite moment of it's at the end they beeper twice and the end he has to p step off and SHE wraps off the sentence in the the last part of IT that SHE said IT was something long ines of like this nebula set of organizations that like are not gbs number or something and SHE like as she's walking away he looks back and she's like IT was like a IT was like a hm SHE like marched on and I there was so only thing I love her I love that he had us I think you up someone like you this happen today I love the able to share IT with focus on x um but IT is just so funny to think of the board of supervisors in sanford cisco city all sitting there being forced to listen to a part wires peace that is just absolutely ephie that is like a new like trophy on our shelf I love you I hope that happens more often I y've definitely never heard of fireworks ah they will continue to hear of fireworks such an excEllent b with that all you guys uh it's been swell um we will catch you back here next week later.