Marc Andreessen Tech Manifesto, Right Wing Cancel Culture | PIRATE WIRES EP#20 🏴‍☠️
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When was last time mark Andrew son talk to a four person? Mark Andrew son is wrong about everything the area of billionaire tech mogo post bizarre tech manifesto with enemy list style man of that.

Maybe IT is meant well written so that I will give this to the unama. IT was, IT was well written, yet the man could turn a phrase.

No.

he makes a good time. You a lot.

a good point. It's hard.

Welcome back to the pod guys. Uh, sina will not be with us today. He is in jury duty.

I'm not entirely sure with the cases. IT was a quick one, so probably not murder. I was, I was hoping for something spicy.

SHE said anything to you guys at all about SHE won't she's too shy to say anything? Yes, I know when she's too good of a person. She's SHE is going to follow those rules. River, on the other hand, I know that I would know all of that.

The case 不是 we .

we have a piece of up up about IT already， right? So this week on the pie, we're talking about like a little bit about the market reason's manifesto for a six z and specifically, I think the reception of that by the tech press was remarkable to me.

Um where is all about a little bit about cruz and uh and where we talk about this new ork times hitler photographer um like the hitler's supporting prototyping the college campus in sanny and just I think cancel culture in general um rightwing council culture is very much invoke and like the question of of you know are you for IT or against IT now the left is against IT the right is for IT is democracy where is have that conversation? I think we have touched on on a little bit, but we've never really we have not yet really dug in on the pod. So that's what I want to do today.

The first things first is this tech manifesto. So mark and dries in, he's written a handful of pieces over the last couple of years. I think three kind of miles I don't like at that number around though like and we puts them out there very well composed.

They are very punchy and they tend to be kind of tech zide gusti. He does capture the essence of where people are in tech culture at a given moment. And he makes typically a sort of um they're like weirdly controversial position.

So I mean the one kind of famously was its time to build and and and more recently, IT was a defensive AI that when I kind of understood maybe the push back um you know that there's at lea robust group of people who are really anti AI so I understood that one this most recent one was I mean the thrust of his I don't want to say I was like a art IT was a position IT was like, technology is good. Uh, technology lifts people out of poverty. Technology creates a more abundant world.

And um I don't know, I think that IT. I I agree with you. I didn't feel like I was making any kind of argument that I could even be mad at um IT was just a correct position in in my opinion.

I I do understand perhaps someone is is a total lid IDE and there going to be like no technologies is the bad IT is not all these bad things that has only been bad um like I understand maybe disaggregation with the premise. What I do not understand is the incorrect ble media backlash to what was to my I A. Basically, the position that is completely common in the technology is really like this is not even there's nothing divided about this.

Uh, bRandy, can you just give us a list of some of the headlights? I feel like we're always talking about the media wrench crazy. But but it's like the media went crazy. Could just give us give us the .

run down yeah mean the media went the tech media went crazy. And what .

seems like what seems like .

almost total lock step um tech runge infamous ously. I think this is one of the more infamous headlines. Um they were the Andrews and item with the airline.

When was the last time mark Andrew son talk to a poor person? Um this outline was, by the way, on the heels of them talking about gaza. If I was a tec B, I think earlier .

that he was a tep really desire. rip. yeah.

IT was crazy. They're crazy. So keep buying. Then I want to tell about chrge.

yeah. I mean, this moto moto adam was like something like mark Andrew yan is wrong about everything. And then they call the in the center of the piece they call IT a unabating a style manifesto which which .

is White because he was he was a high .

technology because he the original yeah he was the the high I Q seventies or eighties lude um which IT just makes uh maybe this this is really .

well compared to I will give this to the unabomber was well written yeah the man could turn a phrase yes .

yeah you .

made a lot of good point. It's hard this goes standard .

um the headline I found this one interesting even though not a little uh tech application. There are temple to go so um bay area billionaire tech mogul, a bizarre tech manifesto with enemy list. I was like, oh, there was an enemy list in this someone else. The enemies, the enemies are like .

ideas esg. The enemies can't towers that .

know at all. Credential expert world view like this is what he's saying. Luxury beliefs are are the enemy list. Social engineering playing god with someone else's lives is on his enemy list.

And the ever listened was this is, I think he says this speaks to really the way that I mean, circulates a small group of people and IT IT happens to us as well. I think sometimes certainly to me um the the tech press mostly of a of a similar class of people, a similar group of people, they have live in similar places, they went to similar schools, they read similar things that they d like each other and they follow each other on twitter and one of them says enemy list and they're all saying enemy list I actually had a guy, uh, a journalist, reach out to me to push back.

I wrote a peace uh I don't know a piece I I wrote about this in our industry news letter so I wrote, you know, a brief thing IT wasn't IT wasn't a full on essay, but I kind of recapped the press and I said, you know, people were basically calling mark of fashion, in some cases explicit and I think I said that I ny everyone saying he's a fascist. So this guy was like, not everybody buco like, I didn't come a fascist and he didn't. He likes me to this piece.

And IT was a kind of reasonable, like I sort of agree with his position on tech optimism but like I don't like this enemy list and um there's no fucking enemy list. Not that's not based in reaction. You can't look an enemy list.

He said these are the enemies and I was like environmental, social, whatever the fuck, rather than business, were focusing on things that are not business. That's that's just like what are we how is this this is not a serious conversation and IT exhausted me having to kind of like dip into this all the time and beat back accusations of literal fashion. That's what what we're getting here um especially as you know, in the context of and will get to IT in a few minutes, the york times hiring an actual E A hitter guide. I mean explicit um I just don't want to hear IT from the media right now. Sorry, I are there anymore before begin to look the substance of .

this um they're all they're all kind of similar to to that um wired insulted in recent by calling him a merchant of progress which sounds kind of bad as I don't actually know how that that was there was two .

thousand word peace on why the routes reviewing a book about the lights and and I was like they're so much more than just smashing machine machines and it's like it's it's they're really this an important social movement and I think, okay, the there are people who really believe that and you know, go off. What they tend not to do is become tech journalists like like the wire magazine was the that was where people went because they were hobbist and they loved the crazy new tech stuff on the horizon and they wanted to learn about all the new gadgets and gizmos and cool weird science shit and they were talking about br and was like a very neil Stevens and ask like people were excited about judicial cool shit that was coming um and and now you have just this needle kind .

of .

like balmer not even in the interesting kind of left, is like the old, like like an old happy anti nuclear type person who is reacting to this stuff and IT IT just feels, I know the whole things kind of said, you have that one woman who called IT right wing in IT as if I I think people they're reacting to of a kind of overall vibe that they don't understand.

They see mark speaking in a kind of way, and it's forceful and excited and on apologetic, and they don't even care about the topic. And I see this writing in sort of response to writing all the time. Ah IT doesn't even matter what you're talking about. It's the way you're saying IT reminds them of like A A guy like mucho guy and they see that as inherently threatening.

This is why I think the word violent was applied to this a piece that was genuinely arguing in for things like I was like the artificial intelligence and I think he asked to build more nuclear powerplants like that was the whole thing but he was careless as violent. You have Carried switcher obviously um going off herself she's serious about IT um her I think push back is I understand that one a little more that one is that just because markets and talk to her anymore and of course markets and talk to Carry swish her anymore, mark is to be very friendly with uh with cara. They would disagree all the time, but he was friendly with her and then he will hurt I think failed now failed media company recorded when after a sixteen z for um advocating caution in the united of COVID nineteen famously he had a his family had no handshakes. Please sign. This was like early early on before the summary, even of twenty twenty, when we didn't really quite know what was going on heart out that when after him and a the entire tech industry clapped back like just rose up and they were like not today saying and they they like went in they defended him biology was a huge part of this and this really like I think completely destroyed her relevance in silicon valley because he doubled in triple down and then he never provided evidence to support any of her claims um and I think he represents him for that I think he sees him in his firm as the thing that that kind of knock, draw or higher horse but yeah, I don't know what do .

you making this I would I just not really I would not really quick about Chris wish are going after Anderson for the note handshakes saying this is a little bit off topic but I is so funny to me sometimes I think about I I remember, I believe, washed them post or near times in the very beginning in a pandemic, late february twenty twenty. The the media in lockstep was like, this is just a bad flu and this is at the same time that coin base publish like a two thousand word log post that was like, here's we're going to do with this gets really bad and they had a whole plan and the media was like, you guys are fucked and dumb and, uh IT really changes .

after that tumor like the kind of person who gets a bunch of can food and heights in their in their basement, they are making fun of us. Yes yes was and again, they were wing. P for coffee was right wing.

Whatever they don't like, it's I do it's like the politics generally follow the culture. And I think the right that the culture is different, like the culture of tech is very different than the culture of tech press. But the politics are all that is not really a part of IT at all. They just don't like us, just don't like IT. And when they will find .

one of the other things you are saying to about about the tone that that they don't like, it's like you can't i've notice that that too. It's like when when they encounter direct and forceful um suggestions for solutions, just like straight forward that curter we're going to do IT this is going to fix this. They don't like IT. It's really bizarre like you you can't come out of that way anymore.

I think don't like the message anyway then the I boy think it's like if they don't like the message, then the tone is going to bowl them anymore because like people be like you're funny or they're like you're snarky depending you on about how you know what they think about what i've actually written. It's not actually like the top and like how people pursue. They're like you're being mean or you're being funny or like you don't know me, like a sick people get make up the ride. So there's going to be like always by my but if they liked that they would be like a strided defense of you know .

whatever yeah they would go off king to tell us how to take no progressive. Um I think there's a gender thing here. I think there's something about a guy being like very direct that.

Ruthy bothers people there. It's like it's seen as like just another guy doing a guy thing acting like a guy. Some dumb.

You always see this is like the means about another White boy with a podcast. R another way boy with. A point it's it's like IT feels very gendered, the d ism to me. Well, I mean.

we live in the longer all way.

Yeah I think that there's this like some people, I guess maybe would say it's like a long house thing. I think house from academia, but like IT is IT is kind of like more directed towards but a lot times like this, like this are like all you need to carve out everything that you say, like you need to feel like we. But what about the I don't know, the whatever workers are going to be replaced or whatever.

And like at me, maybe like if you're writing like a book or something like you're but this lack of five thousand work, right? So it's like and you can get you can get into everything. You're not ready like a fool, like you're not giving like policy recommendations like to the government or you're not you know like there's like in academia, like there's a reason why you do that. It's because it's because supposed we like quai, like scientific researcher, whatever. But like this is just guy, right?

Is I and and and .

body used to do the things like you actually like write reviews, new novels that were coming on stuff like it's hard sometimes to get like you know two thousand words in for that and like when you're trying to do a five thousand dollars are just going to go book while and just start making you up to be, I think like, you know, because I really, I mean, even if you don't like, I like really the most should be able to come up with is like altered for the characters. But these people have taken IT upon themselves to break entire articles about IT. And so yes.

not I can just want this is the other piece is crazy about IT to me is that it's not just one or two. It's every single tech press outlet that I saw had something to say about this will had one thing to say about this, which was that I was bad um I wonder what IT is I I think I think you only really asked that way if you think you're losing something important and and I think I think maybe mark, I wrote in that in the industry, I was talking a little bit about this sort of the twitter of IT all mark really represents this kind of direct to the industry approach to communication. He is a big island supporter.

Pretty sure a sixteenth invested in the new twitter um he's been in now spoken proponent of free speech and things like this and free speech itself down I mean that is a that phrase really speaks directly to this conflict between the allied arbiters of truth and the masses and the elite arabs of truth. By the way, they're fine with the speech of the masses, provided they agree with you, but once they don't, it's like this is really dangerous to to to our institutions and what not. I think that that for whatever reason, the clock mark is the guy like he. He's the one who maybe he's a post a little bit as well. He was was friendly with them at one point now is not um but they definitely see him as dangerous and they they want to make that clear.

Yeah, I think they're Operating on this model that that's that's probably outdated to this point, which is they assume that that people are coming to them. Average of my readers are coming to them to be to be based told how to interpret IT sort of raw information um or raw information coming out the new cycle um and I think it's probably updated at this point because access taken so much of of that share of leadership away from these publications that simply not able to do that and that might be a source of of fear, a danger or threat uh to to tech, ran wired, gsm to vice and these guys yeah .

I think the the other thing here is they are also Operating in. So each of these journalists is Operating inside of this information ecosystem with us like let's just talk about x the exhibit all for a minute. This is a platform where creative voices are in a kind of competition with each other for attention.

And it's like a separate from the class thing and separate from the no disagreement on the future said, in separate from the history of Carry switch being just totally burned by a sixteen z and everybody else in tack who spoke up at that point, mark, just very popular. His writing is very popular. Lots of people are reading his right at that piece was read by many, many, many people.

Wait, more people than the average piece of really tech, any any report for any of the tech press outlet. So that is just frustrated on a kind of human level. I think for a creative person who was that attention, like if you're in competition, that's just that's a that's a guy who's taking attention away from you, at least maybe that's how some people see IT.

Yeah I think I think a part of that is is also um if this is if we can cause this is like a battle between the entrances of the world and the tech ratched of the world, if in reason ends up uh winning then all of those magazines that we're talking about become really irrelevant. Or they have to just change ideological sides overnight to stay to survive. Because nobody don't want to read totally anti tech stuff from I M. Now they .

already don't want this is I sometimes go back, I go back and forth on the on the relevance of the press. Like I say, I was really the important that these people are all lockstep on an issue that's totally wrong. It's affecting culture.

And then sometimes I look at that, they are really scared. Is there reason is IT because they're not getting the views, they're not getting the reasons. They are less relevant than I thought.

I will say in the case of this cruel so it's not about cruise from minute. So in the case of some forces, uh, the first sco D M V, just revoke cruise as a self driving car company. They revoke their license to Operate within the city is a huge deal.

Um this follows a massive I would say I want I mean, there's no way is a conspiracy decentralized sort of disinformation campaign of a kind we're used to a following you know, years of trump in office and um encoded in things like this in which are like every time a cruse got into any kind of an accident or was even near an accident, a IT would be the reported as a cruise the cruz, the cruise vehicles fault. That all of them were deduced that there's not to my mind, one story that was about cruise that wasn't either the bunt or contextualized in a way that was very dma. Give you an example the worst one yet to mind mind um a girl was uh or a woman was dragged by a cruise car about twenty feet um and which is horrific and he was hospitals.

Ed very dangerous. Um I think she's but in not critical condition. She's a serious condition, a red but she's this seems like he is going to be OK, but very scary.

SHE was hit into the cruise by another, a human driver. He was like a human driver hit her and ran. I've write IT an article yesterday, information local, local press services ago. They did not even mentioned this about this. They did not even mention how this girl ended up on that car. He was hit by a human this there were been multiple stories like this where uh, a crews was blamed for a human driver that hit a person one was believe a homeless person who was killed not too long ago um also by a human driver. Uh, this is where the tech press, or press in general does seem to have an influence because this slow the slew of stories from every journal in separate go IT doesn't matter if we've been to bond IT seems to have LED directly to real political action um especially most recently in the case of this girl being dragged and uh that is I know that they're relevant relevant enough to do that. I mean, what you guys you guys make of the I guess what do you make of the cruise thing, first of all, and what you make of the relevance of the press and general this point tech press the say, say, narrow on the tech press.

I want, I want to add some details that hidden quick, first off. So the hidden run created two pro or two, two government like regulatory actions. Um the first is national highway traffic safety administration open a probe on this and the second is that california D N V revoked cruise license and pressures specifically because of this incident. I would i'll say that like they actually haven't found the hidden and run driver. So IT is kind of like rich a little bit um in the second thing i'll say is I mean this is really, really tragic but the the woman who got hit walked out in an intersection at her red light so even even where he was hit by a driver and cruise was was unable to avoid her the the human was still at fault um and the other incident guy wanted to bring up uh that the national highway traffic safety administration is looking into is when a creese going one point four miles per hour through a Green light bumped into a pedestrian and somehow the pedestrian got sent to the hospital for this now I .

don't even know how to go one point four miles power in my human walking .

speed so like imagine you're going half of your Normal walking speed and that's a car like is IT isn't a true that the woman or sorry, the person that got the person that got hit was actually the one that hit the crews if she's .

walking here SHE is SHE got bumped after he walked out in front of a Green light and then got bump. Is the word that that I keep .

by car my craw? And then the pedestrian, according to the incident report, was transported by an ambient to the hospital. How could this have possibly causes an injury? I seriously don't understand as possible.

I mean, listen, I respect a good scan and like you know is like, oh my god, you don't mean because you see.

You it's about .

that or it's I mean, you have just so many cases. Was I got based in prato? Is that his name? Jason prada.

the leftist he ran .

in front of he ran into a crossed walk on a Green light and um and then a cruise car stopped IT didn't hit him and just IT stopped there and I believe I really can you look this story up going? I want to make sure i'm getting the details right. I'm pressure that I I don't he went viral after that for saying the cruise did something horrifically dangerous.

Um well, Jason works for he's an activist. He's left his activist. He wants to ban the cars. My sense is that these guys around the city are seeking the cars out. We already know. I mean, sin a previously reported on cooney where these people, the local activists in the city, we're going out to the cars and they were putting a cone on top of them red over a sensor, I believe, which stop the cars from Operating and break them in the midst of the street causing, uh, traffic and what not to get people mad at the cruise vehicles, the self driving cars, you have activists around the city seeking controversy with the cars out so they could then get in the press and spin up this kind of fake out anything out. The average person you talk to doesn't seem to really care about this.

It's like the the press write stories about IT and and local politicians act on IT and they they use those stories to um prove that they have you know uh like to stand on but it's yes, it's all about that. I do I do think it's exactly that. I wanted know the identity of this girl because I she's either a sm artist or she's one of these activists.

It's a total sm. It's like it's like when you're watching european soccer and they just get like like slightly grazed .

by some boy's hand and they followed .

her like in I mean, it's like what what's the act? What's social motivation though? Like do they actually think that like they're dangerous and we just haven't seen IT yet? Or is IT like a labor's looking a one taxi drivers to get display ys.

or the labor, it's labor. Abr labor. One is labor.

And then two, it's the fact that these companies are run by tech, and tech is anonymous with rich. This is one of the reasons I got made. There's a local organization called grow S.

F. In the city, and they are the moderates and they're raising money to fight against the crazy people. Um they recently who was like this, mean where it's like literally no one, and then someone says something fucking crazy, so literally no one.

And then grow sf, I will never take money from elon musk. They sort of like reached out. So the chronical reached out to them to see if they had taken money from elon mosque. And they were like, not only have we not, we don't share valleys with the man, we never have don't know him.

We will never know him how, like, absolutely no world we ever work with them and it's like, okay, one you I actually I reach out to one of the guys about this and I like what the fuck and like, well, elon mosque is pulling IT, you know, thirty percent unpopularity with the city, and he's not running for local politics. You don't have money from him. What is the real reason that you did this? And it's because he is synonymous with tech.

And tech is very unpopular among a very strong, loud contention of voters in the city of san Francesco. So I cut tize with them, cocked sf, no longer supporting them. Don't I told many of you to give them money? I i'm sorry for doing that. I never will again. It's like who needs people like that fucking bullet shit um but I do think it's interesting that we've feel they need to reach out this way.

I do think things like like like cruise, the real sort of animists behind IT and you are mask for sure um is they represent this this rich class of people in the city, this kind of bogeyman that um is chasing the socialists around in like running poor Brown people out of their house and things like this a is just part of the theater that they they bought into. What you make that is because I I don't think it's about the cruise cars. I think it's one labor. But then I think the bigger thing is a cultural thing.

miami and well, the labor thing it's like, yeah my own thing was like actually I mean, like I know people i've made over, but like I remember when a couple of years ago, but he was think like mothers like a giant scm and that like it's exploiting people who should find out for up because like you're not guarantee debate money I guess true but like I don't know if it's funny how like the politics of kind of shifted around. I guess we were drivers .

and without how is IT shift .

IT explain .

is explained well.

Well, they used to say if like that uber is like bad and exploits workers. But now it's like then that people that shouldn't be ebber drivers because it's like scan in a rip off. But now now there's staying like all we need to like protect drivers yeah .

from h this reminds me of this, the duality of the left left his positions on america. On the one hand, this is a uniquely evil country, presses poor people oppressed is black people a presses clear people um you know, trands genocide is happening here on the daily uh presses women like no one is safe except White boys uh but on the other hand, if you don't let people immigrate into this country, that is a violation of their human rights like this. Is this the only place that people can immigrate you for safety? You start you know and let's say, I don't know, the furthest further hell hole in south amErica the further south you go down, whether it's like it's a city country, you walk through you fifteen countries, you come to amErica because it's the only place you're safe, make IT makes sense is just the duality of the left of these things yeah .

and just i'll say something about um the the luddites m in terms go um we we published peace call against safety ism quite some time ago by I think his names burn abbad into biased huber and David really great quote about about why people are are essentially afraid of technology that I I just like to to read really quick um they say creating a new technology into playing IT widely and tells a definite visit for the future but the focus on the risks as like as in safety ism and avoiding technology means the definitive vision of the past and a more sopco model of what the future might hold given times a knowing habit of of only moving in one direction. We have no choice but to live in somebody's future. The question is, whether is somebody with a plan or somebody with an error is, and I feel like seven kans kind of want to live in the future of somebody with a with an error is, I suppose, to somebody with the plan.

I say, yeah, these same transitions for sure. And I think the people like like the caucus f thing is they I don't think they're really like. They're not really those people.

They just want those people to like them. And that is the death kiss of integrity, I would say, is when you need people, you just need them to like you. You're you're not going to give the right position at that point.

Sometimes you will because sometimes that are lines, maybe even most of the time that a lines, you know being liked and saying the right thing but there are moments where IT just doesn't and um yeah they felt the test uh, speaking of total failures, let's talk about ryan and workman of the new york now, you know, let's talk about the york times. They think first. So there's IT going to be spicy when I think river gna push back quite a bit. And I think he should and we should have this conversation about council culture, uh, free speech, cancel culture of the israel stuff has gotten certainly out of hand.

Um I will say just before I get into the really agreeable ones that I definitely don't mind you, these people being fired there is this list, the the linked in list scraped like seventeen thousand names these sort of pro uh israel folks put together this list of people who had on linked in voiced what they described as either antisemitism, uh protea support, or uh or just pro israel or or anti israel, or was IT prit was like anti israel, anti semitism or or or protein was propelling on there because I know IT was what what ends up happening is like first of all, anti emmet's sm and protection r let's bucket IT them over here. That to me is very different than anti israel or propolis like that that are those are two separate buckets for me. I think the propane stan position is idiotic, but within the bounds of what out like it's people say stupid things constantly that I don't fire them for um I or that I wouldn't fire them for and that I don't want them to be fired for.

But the the antisemitic c and specifically the protests r stuff is like, I don't know how you work with someone who wants you to die and so that's why i'm like, I don't want to work if I not see I don't want to work with A A proteron orient person but like if someone just, you know, going off about pass time, I don't know that's pretty dicey in this list for when I I clicked in and IT IT was a lot of people who were just like, kids are dying in palaces. And you can say that complicated because IT is because there's a war going on right now and war is complicated and you have people how much is hiding in schools and ship and hospitals and what not, but kids are dying like that. Just that is a fact. And there is a certain kind of lib who is always going to be, you know, in H I. Peace person until geri's waging war.

But the point is like I I think that's fine and I do think things have gotten sort of um I think things there there are things in certain dimensions that are that are getting out of control that having been set the new work times recently retired a guy uh in gaza as a uh video uh uh photo journalist who has previously praised hailer not just like a fucking s real guy but I get a literal gay hiller guy and the quotes are let me pull them up early quite because they are spectacular speak like in terms of just holy shit uh quote in a state of harmony as hitler was during the holocaust and he shared a picture of himself like another one how great you are hitler um and he was a photo of like hitler with a little mustache like and. Cell phone or whatever um that have been like photoshop in that crazy to me that he was so the contrary he have a couple years ago, uh, he was fired. They bring him back on to work now to cover israel.

Uh that is psychotic to me. Um we can talk about this for a second or we can get into the the school stuff too. I do think there's a lot of crazy should happening on campuses um and maybe we will just do that branding concurrently while this is happening. Give me the give me the college stuff, what's going on to .

the college campuses um okay, so last night, either way, all of this stuff is to my mind unverified, is very difficult to sort through what's going on on twitter and know the the providence of some of these videos and images. Um one of the I I think two things that we we absolutely know happened that yesterday were a number number one that there was a group of jewish students who either were barrick or barrick themselves inside a library um because they were afraid of a propellant or prohibits protest happening right outside the doors and if you watch the video they are appeared to be like that the protesters, so the video is from inside the library and the protesters outside the library at the door I do appeared to be like banging on the door and like and generally have a very threatening sound to them you can kind of see them through through the windows um we also saw yesterday um again like I I I reverse image search this and IT does seem to have happened yesterday or or very recently protesters in union square Young ones holding up signs that say something like is I keep new york city clean yeah and the .

sign that .

a um previous to that at um what is called is called George watching in university is that the the name i'm .

not sure I saw this one you wrote down.

I wasn't familiar .

the story. yes. So the projector where they .

had like I think .

I was only I think IT was only four students. I don't think I don't know that there were a bunch of students who were behind this book, but a few students at least did project um what pro israel people are saying, our dog whistles, our anti semitic .

dog Whites to the water and river to the yes.

they projected this onto the side of a building is really, really big up and and computers on twitter mention that this is like two miles awe are something like that from the the capital building so um .

yeah we also work last one and then to IT we have right in workman of N Y U. So this is the girl who uh wrote the support for the terrorists directly following the attacks before israel had retaliated. Um SHE is uh the head of the n yu legal something rather what is IT? She's a lawyer student.

the head of the student new york bar association.

Yeah so he lost her internship. Some like exorbitant like some like rich person, lower job um and has just again been filmed defacing posters of like missing hostages from uh from the Terry attack on october seventh. Credit to her credit I will say he seems to really believe IT so you know go off uh you know he is like hard core you know, eradication of israel person, sure uh, at least is walking the walk.

And I still just think the colleagues are out of control. There's a question of like whether these people who are responsible for all of these different things, whether explain them or you know losing their international, whatever is that cancel culture is the first question then is IT justified as the second? Um we've been talking for quite a bit river and you of complex opinions about this and you just just give me give me your take.

Like when you have college kids protesting, repeating slogans and stuff, whatever, trying to like create blacklist to wear, like you know they never work again, where they're going to be, Oliver online people going to be googling though, forever trying to get them pick down school. I think like if the goal is like do regalias people, which I I don't think a lot of these people are realizing.

People it's kind like B A M or like people are like go out on the streets and like repeating slogans because that's what their friends are doing and they want to like them with that. Like I I think like through the people who are actually radicalize, they are going to double down because they are going to see themselves as a marter in the people who aren't actually raze. And they are just like going along with the crowd like they are actually, you didn't become critical, zed, because they're gonna like outlook like see with like these people, like these people destroyed by life for taking the um yellow for defending the twenty three hundred children who have been killed, pals, whatever over the past eighteen days.

Like that's how they're going to see IT because like that's the that's kind of human nature um and there's also like no way that if you end up like unlike a list of anti semite or whenever like forever IT were every back time, like somebody tries to google you, they're going to that the first thing going to pop up like there's no even if you like completely changing, he becomes like a radical like completely to the other side and become like a radical promiser al person and like say i'm sorry. Convert studio m whatever like IT doesn't think is going to matter because your life is going to rever solution. There's no innovation .

for people to change. IT doesn't bother me and I don't here's how I would bother me if a if someone had some prohibitive views and they protecting with their friends and someone leaked those to the press, that would be outrageous to me and I would not seem fair. But when someone happily goes to twitter to post their views, I think IT is perfectly valid for people to not want to work with you based on those views.

We discriminate against each other all the time, for i've discriminated against every single person a pie wired to wive hired based on their views. I like there's enough of in each of you of your views that I like. I am discriminating against you or against other people in favor of you because of your views, because of things that you have written.

Uh this is this is speaking of human nature. That's human nature. So um I don't I think with cancel culture there are these these cases where it's like you're a genitor and you make an off color joke in an elevator and then some chick at a tech conference ruins your life like takes IT to the press and that that is the cancel culture that I have a problem with.

But when gina kono or whatever from the Manda ori an says the right wing is being treated like the jews during world war two and he gets fired from disney for that, I think that stupid and I shouldn't fire her but also it's like you're actress and your views are now how people are seeing your role. And if disney wants to fire you, they don't want to associate with you for your views. That's just kind of that maybe as shitty, but but it's but it's kind of that's just the name of the game.

These people have signed their name to views that many people, myself included, find completely apparent. And uh, if you do that, then you kind of have to you have to expect people to have a reaction to that. In fact, my sense is they're doing IT for the reaction.

are they not I think one of the one of the difficult part of this conversation is um I think we all know at least I actually I would probably eighty percent of the things that I did when I was nineteen years old, like if somebody would like asked me to account for like one like a whole. They like went through like every single thing I said during during my when I was nineteen years old, I would be like, no, like I didn't do that.

I'm really embrace by that that I do. I have some really bad tattoos I got when I was, when I was really okay. And I felt very, I felt so strongly about the things I got tattoos about that I got them into my body and so um to say I I think we all know that we all know that college kids or not yet fully formed, we know that they're dumb and we know that they they can have really stupid opinions.

And so I I I don't deny that I certainly had discuss reactions to some of the things that I i've seen, specifically college kids saying and doing um and I think a lot of us are having literal discuss reactions is like free language like holy shit that's awful, right? Um but but a big party wants to keep what I just said in mind about just the stupidity of youth. And again, I understand your point, Michael.

Again, there are saying some very disgusting things but I I have to if their experience becomes anything like my own, when they're fully formed adults and are in the primary careers, actually making a difference at the company, they probably are I mean, they're probably not going to be thinking the same way that they were thinking like eighteen, eighteen, twenty years ago when they were in college. So um this is a that like that makes this conversation difficult way through. I want to ask you about .

the new year time's staying and they will wrap up up what what about that? What about the new york times times photo? The new york times photo journalist, the protected guy ah now covering isreal .

for the new times. Oh, I mean, like I can get like he said that like ten years ago or something like if they were hiring to, like, uh, I don't know, work on something that not to do with this real palace. I be like, okay, maybe you like if is like said like a there was a long time ago. I sorry about that or whenever I can get like forgiveness for things that people said ten years ago, but it's like hiring to hiring him to cover this conflict, this kind I actually .

agree yeah I I agree. I I think that I have they let up yeah. How do if he was like covering? I don't know a swim or something, I D I D be like, okay, uh, weird.

But okay. The fact that discovering israel is like, I mean, I almost think that they want us to have an opinion on this. You know you can't do that in our expect. They were like, dim, he's in gaza. Like he's got some sick photo.

Za mean, well, I mean, I guess like because there's like there's always to on the ground because they hiring and they got contract out because if there was like O G can go to some video or like I mean, I just that's not a one.

A bunch have a ton of violence at this point. I feel like it's .

a little it's. It's definitely a weird look but like concerning the nock, nobody can get in around. I guess it's kind of like who else do you go to accept like this one guy you know who is there?

I don't know. I mean, weird move, but I I I I guess like knowing that he I I thought this guy was like living in new york or something like that crazy. But I mean, if that's like, you know, you just need somebody on the ground to like report basic facts or something. I mean.

I like only contact contact that is like brand in final.

thoughts. Uh, I don't look I think it's a it's a difficult a difficult conversation to about this. I think we can I mean, look like for me, cancer culture has always been .

about .

the problem of cancer culture. When the left was perpetuating .

IT .

was people were getting cancelled, like he said, for telling stupid jokes and being over hurt by somebody else and then and then having their image you planted everywhere online and having their life ruined um that was a problem for me with with cancel culture. Now we're talking about this. Should these people be allowed to get jobs? Or is is a pencil culture to, if I am the hiring manager or not? Not not a hire these people.

And I think like the answer prety much no, right? Like you're allowed to do that is legally permissible to not hire whoever you want. And I think because like you bring a question about the universe university, like should we allow I guess you could call a genocide speech, were speaking inside insight violence on universities because we're funding them. I don't know.

Well, questions for another day. Um thanks guys for Johnson. We will hit you back up next week. This is yeah this is the power virus pod. Thank you later.