The End Of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion | Pirate Wires Podcast #28 🏴‍☠️
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Judging gay defined school press resigns over anti semitism platform m scandals harvard president's resignation highlights new conservative weapon against colleges plagiarism why black excEllence is never enough the next president of harvard university must be a black woman plagiarism is the new scouting in the lightning ing arsenal we're not racist. We're not doing hiring quotas and we're not doing gender quotas.

Welcome back to the pod. IT is twenty twenty four of you guys had a great new year. Uh, today we are talking about the only thing we could possibly be talking about, the absolute icon, the legend clotting gay.

Uh, this is the now disGrace former president of harvard university. We are gona talk about few things here. I mean, kind like should she've been fired? Should he not have been fired? Thinking that a little bit.

But i'm more interested in sort of why is the stories such a huge deal? Um so what happened? Why are people absolutely obsess with IT on the left, on the right? Um you know what is cloudy gay represent? What are we really talking about here? Because I do think that is very important. Um we're going to talk about the role of twitter in all of this and uh and the the much discussed bibe shift is D E I over uh is is just beginning what's going on on there。 Um certainly we can talk about IT now els different, but let's just start with the story at hand um lauding gay president of harvard ah the background on cloudy is SHE was a very powerful bureaucratic IT harbor before SHE became president um SHE was also one of the sort of big figures supporting maybe dei and certain ly. This is this is the frame that we've seen in the presence river handful of things that she's work done in the sort of early days before the drama again.

So before he was president SHE was gene of the horror faculty of article science um and when he was there he did a couple of like billion era things like twenty twenty SHE commissioned a test port to diverse of my portraits and certain building so is like affirmative action for paintings in twenty twenty two SHE emblematic an invisible that was actually commissionby her arrows to deny certain buildings and signs named after people in the past to are considered racist now because they own slaves or because they lived in the two hundred so I guess he oversaw a firm of action um as deem when he was over the arts and sciences department but I mean that was already a kind of in place um and born a firm that actually was struck down if you remember of the spring court case that shut down a of just struck down a form of actions that was actually harvard that was a plate of in that case he said that the pursuit of racial justice would go on and essentially conveyed that harvard was going to do whatever I could legal ally to continue dell, I find a legal work around to yeah.

it's illegal now, but we're still going to do IT.

We're going to do basically and then after the infamous congressional hearing uh, so that's .

just now. We're talking now couple a month ago now this is the cloudy gay and the other two college presidents. They're at the hearing and they kind of fail to adequately condemn, uh, anti semitism or calls for genocide on campus. At least that is the take on the right animal, I would say love jew's people in amErica and uh and like some elements of the media, there's disagreement there. We had a whole podcast .

about that yeah yeah. I think they kind of treated IT more as a legal hearing that as like the show trial, which eviot all congressional before congress.

like that's a show I was saying, is what we there's no reason even have them they they first, while they shouldn't be telling vice, if you could the only think way I can think about congressional hearing really mattering is if you have people in congress were trying to pass laws on certain issues, like, for example, A I regulation.

Okay, that's a great opportunity to bring in experts in the field to ask to ask questions about this thing that you don't understand because you're legislature, not a guy building A I so if the doors were closed and these were not opportunities to create commercials for campaigns and to grandstand, then maybe there will be some utility. But if no, of course not. Now, I mean cloudy in gaze. One of ever every i've never seen a congressional hearing that wasn't just an opportunity for congresswomen to grasp and there I ve never seen one that wasn't that .

no no it's whatever. After that hearing the um harvard office of equity, diversity, inclusion, belonging uh which was under her preview as president, deleted a bunch of documents from its websites which were mostly like White virginity type a stuff know you should feel bad and I think about raising all the time like that's .

what I don't realize that so following the controversy, the controversy before congress, what documents specifically were deleted, where they heard pieces or things that .

he was sharing? Well, I was just documents that were um I think basically just like info graphic type stuff.

standard art form.

what is IT called the uh corporate methods. The they all look like they have like elephant, tiger or whatever.

Yeah yeah there's a always one with like a crush and one with an afro and one is all that, a woman .

yeah in A A jb. So yeah.

I mean.

my my general take is that like SHE, yes, SHE did all of this stuff, but like all of the elite universities were doing this type of shoot around the same time. I don't think that she's really the final boss that she's over like D I. Or whenever that she's being made out to SHE was like clearly a diversity are and I think that kind of what takes people off is that like he was kind of a shotted academic didn't really her work was a really ground braking SHE really didn't put that majo there is a plagiarize scandal which I looked ed into that and IT mostly just seems like SHE was being sloppy, like SHE wasn't actually stealing .

anybody's ideas SHE let's just back up. Let so we have the background on cloudy gay we know kind of what he was doing before he became president. SHE does become president.

There is a question of like issue qualified for this or we're just looking for a black woman to be the president um this poses another question that we I hope we get into a little bit earlier um a little bit later today which is like what the concept of the E I does to black people specifically um where you know your work is constantly called into question now for valid reason because you actually actively have people saying we are doing racial quotas. We are hiring people because they are women, because they're black like what does that do like now like I didn't know jack shit about claudy gay until this month, right? Like who did a the new jc assumption though is that this is a diversity higher start.

Really fair in my opinion but that's also the system that we live in. Ah but following all of this right she's president you have the anti semitism stuff blowing up. People are furious. Someone leaks to doc a length is doing some reporting on this um today actually breaking recording on thursday comment on friday, so thursday leaving, thursday of this week leaving puts out a piece on um this docia that have been circulating before her congressional hearing with the examples of player's ism and you say it's sloppy technically it's plagiarism. M by harvard definition is plagiarism.

I've look at the side by side that is like very black and bad and you can make an argument for sure and I understand IT that like maybe she's just an idiot or slopper or whatever. Um but it's chronic. They're like fifty plus examples at this point.

By new yesterday, there's fifty plus examples is not like a word or a sense. It's like full blocks of text. Introverts with her own few words um sometimes the citadel, not even on the page that is wild to me. I never written that way.

I can imagine writing that way, but she's fired so or SHE SHE resigns ah so on near's day, the harbor standing behind her donors or standing behind her, everyone is saying this is just to go a right wing which hunt this is the free beacon which is certainly a conservative news outlet um in in h in conjunction with the work of Christopher rufo who is a ryan activists who are trying to destroy this woman who they consider to be the D I final boss and um you know because she's the fact the leader of academia in amErica SHE runs harvard the most important college in the world um and uh they stand by her until new yesterday when even more allegations come out um and finally should resign and um mostly a nice letter but he also blames races um then she's the new york times doing up that about IT and let us take a sampling of like the media reaction to this which is I would say frustratingly predictable so you have a well you have anything you have the new york post also predictable um judging gay defining school press resigns over anti semitism platform m scandals but plays the victim huge capital harvard dropout the score was made for the post feeling have a few thing one day someone's going to give the post. It's do like they are there. They're in the throw of IT. There's they never missing controversy, they never drop a headline like big, there's there's an art to what they do. And I really hope one day someone gives them that and like a beautiful novel about just like the what what they represent with .

some genius behind the headlines that works there.

The two for the right, so is IT or is like it's the culture of the institution, like our people at the new york post constantly. Like that's not good enough for the new york post. Like we need to read people with this like like we need people to say, oh my god and lush their parts how did like what you are walking to the new york post with the bedi headline? Get out here.

Go back to the my my hero or whatever. Um okay, so that's the new york post, but the rest of the media is pretty lockstep on my completely other end of the spectrum. You have claudy gay, what this is her opinion. What just happened at harvard is bigger than me. And there I do agree with there going into IT in a minute.

Um you have some really great one of one of the highlights I would say maybe the highlight was the associated press, harvard president's resignation, higher lights, new conservative weapon against colleges plagiarism 嗯 you have from forbes， clarin, gabe resigns from harvard Colin, why black excEllence is never enough uh mark leon hill, who was fired himself from a job at mcb C I think um but now he's a very popular he's still just a popular news influencer. He don't show um the next president of harvard university. All caps must be a black woman uh you have it's no Smith laughing at a tweet that is just too good not to include um plagiarism.

Is the new scalping in the right wing arsenal a genocidal practice used by colonist posting bounties for indigenous people using violent trophy imaging against a black woman tells you this was never about plagiary m but reestablishing Whites supremacy. In academia, even Candy, who is really like the guy behind um anti races, right? He works above in university, my omega, which I forever embarrassed of uh, he has a bar mean he had what was the twenty million dollars that he just ask him in? This is not I don't think there was any grief.

I think he's truly just that stupid. He doesn't know what happened to IT just like blue through IT burned away all of this money he got from the boys uh but he is the the intellect behind, uh, anti racism today. And he says pro racist mobs won't stop until they topple all black people from positions of power and influence who are not reinforcing the structure of racism.

What these racist mobs are doing should be obvious to any reporter who cares about truth or justice as opposed to conflicts and click once again using this language of like violence and killing in uh what is IT linchmore right to describe the reaction to cloudy gay um and in congressmen to mobile man who is in idiot again, I almost feel bad picking on me. He's genuinely stupid, but he's a congressman. Uh, this isn't about player's ism antisymmetrized.

This is about the racism and intimidation. This makes no one safer. The only winners are fascist subulate a brilliant and historic black women into resignation. I do agree that it's historic.

SHE is, uh, the shortest ten year of any president and harder three hundred and eighty seven year history gratulations you've made history twenty twenty four bomb says will be a battle for truth, democracy and our shared humanity that one I also agree with. So these are uh, the incredible headlines. I mean, there are tons of tweet in here.

The the back and forth is endless, but this is from the media. I mean, this is roughly, the opinion is like this woman is being targeted. The scalping thing comes from that APP.

The original one. That said, the main take away from this story is plagiary m is now a weapon of the right wing against academics within IT. They said scaling was a weapon that was used by White people to kill and terrorized indians.

IT does anything to do like black people were never scaled in this country like they. They're really only ones who want the skepticals. You think about that because like the word like cases in the in the west, like word like the army, like would pay you to like bring a Maggie scouts or whatever, like certain tribes or they were like a war with and then like indians, but also scout why people they were like pioneers and stuff, but why black people never really got scaled? I think like linchmore is like obviously too much, but at least I guess at least works her like a strange metaphor I didn't see.

So right? I it's weird that we didn't see as much. I mean, in the maistly impress, you're never going to I mean, I don't think you would see someone stayed up set. This is a linchmore. I mean, this is a woman to get fired for plagiarism.

M, that actually exists that you can point to and and and have a conversation about um but I did see lots of this like for me the scalping thing separate from the history of scalping and that was like a cartoonist frame that IT was only used by White people by the ap, which they then had to correct uh in subway in in uh uh on on the page there's a correction now um is this use of like this is violence right? Like as a classic D I D I approach the stuff too is that like to uh or about the anti races approach, whatever? Like, it's not of these words are sufficient.

It's workplace. We don't have a Better word than workers. But like that, wow, spectin is that certain kinds of speech are violent. And they are saying, like, this was, I mean, an extreme example of violence.

What happened to cloudy gay was violence scaling is used White supremacy, uh is invoke like this is seen as something much bigger than a woman being fired um and I think that they're right that IT is something much bigger than a woman being fired, right? Because of what he represents, cloudy gay is the D I V crat. SHE does not just to the right wing, but clearly to the left wing represent a woman who was hired because he was black and White, black and a woman, which is important, right?

You have lemon out there saying there is some in need importance in her being a black woman like there needs to be a black woman as the president of harvard. They believe that IT is central to why she's there because she's a black government is like convey some kind of power um to the cause and uh and so what we're having is a conversation about that. We're having a conversation about diversity, equity inclusion.

We're having a conversation about racial quoters. We're having a conversation about like how do you help under performing minorities is IT through this? Is IT with is there a systemic problem that we have to defeat? How do you do IT? Is IT with these programs the kind that SHE spearheaded and protected at harvard? Um or is IT through merit in meritocracy? And that's a big open question, but I do think um and we can talk about that now.

But I do think if that's actually what we're talking about, there is nothing to do with her IT is nothing to do with harvard. I don't think IT has anything do the entire semmel? M.

I don't think IT IT has anything to do with her congressional that trigger IT. Maybe her congressional that triggered her congressional hearing is what triggered this whole thing. But that's not why people are talking about, right? And I don't think people care about that at all.

I think they care about when they're applying for a job and they are White or asian. Is that in account against them? I think that's what that's what and people say maybe that doesn't exist or whatever, but that's certainly what people believe, and that's certainly would be bored fighting about right now.

I think thoughts um I mean, I agree broadly that obviously the D I component of this is a huge reason why this story has taken off. I do think there's a component of the fascination with cloudy gay that also has to do with our broader frustration with hier education in this country. And she's kind of the perfect villain and that you know in some centres SHE was clearly diversity higher SHE plagiarize you know vast skills of her doctoral dissertation in a way that I think a lot of people have long suspected academics have um you know been carving their way forward and you know she's the head of harvard, which is this institution that represents kind of the pinna of um this entry ched academic industrial complex.

Almost where you have all of these people you know who graduate from I ve league institutions or I ve league Jason institutions and then go on to form part of this professional managerial class that just sort of creates this D I verbiage um and imposes IT on people and then has this sense of like intellectual and moral superiority um by dent of the fact that they associated with universities like harvard. So I do think there's another component to the cloudy gay um you know she's she's kind of a mean she's not a matter because I don't think that she's um I mean SHE SHE played zed her work um and I think you know should definitely resign. But I do think that the reason why she's being um she's blown up in this moment also has to do with that kind of broader frustration the people yeah amErica IT .

doesn't love an academic like IT doesn't love an intellectual le doesn't love with someone who know thinks they're Better than everybody and that doesn't matter what their color is. This just like the populist thing that exists in this country. And that's a great point. Um I think it's also mentioning to take her good.

I was I think people are kind of frustrating to with like the double to speak or at least I am where it's like you read these articles and they were like people who think that SHE was higher because of her race and gender and then like people are like the next president, however, must be hired on the basis of the race and genis like, okay, now I like SHE wasn't, but like he should have been or the next one should be.

I mean, it's it's one of those things where like I remember like when combo Harris got selected was I guess you just got selective because he is a black woman and like that IT was a mistake, obviously, because she's not a very talented politician and people and you SHE got their on merit. SHE got and like no of and literally said, i'm going to take a back, say they say what they're doing and then they get back at you for by pointing out what they're doing when justice like a great replacement, then we're in like the democratic party was like we need more immigrants because we'll vote for us. And then if you say that you're like it's like blood libel or something .

like I think it's actually worse. It's more clear cut than that, that so the replacement theory thing is a little bit more complicated because you have certain democrats, you say whatever and you can't really say what the actual strategy of the dnc. There's no one who's been like here is the dnc strategy that it's just right of democrats who are saying things like can't wait for White people there to be less White people like that's coming and things like that and then you have pretended didn't say that but they don't represent all of the democrats, right? In the case of something like uh camera, or I would say justice Brown, you have the explicit IT comment from the person responsible for the selection, right he binton said that he would make sure that this was a black woman and um and so no matter how accomplish this person is and I would say even though Brown I can't stand her.

She's accomplished right like she's she's an accomplished justice IT doesn't matter because someone just said that the reason you were being hired was because of the color of your skin in the fact that you were a woman and um and I agree IT IT is really a not just double speak where they can say things like that and then you have to sit there and pretend that they didn't say that like we have to all to hear in britten that someone was hired for a different reason we know what the reason was like you are higher for the reason that you said um which is that you are black and a woman and ah that's not the kind of culture that any of us want to live in that a that we were it's crazy right to have been raised. All of us were raised with the rules and IT was like racist and it's a similar wrong and and IT was defined in a very obvious and clear cut way which was judging people based on these things. Is the example of racism and sexism in now for the last you know, ten years, we've been trying to sort of redefined or we've been we were expected to accept the redefinition of these words, racism and sexism.

The body has rejected the new organ. No one agrees with the new definitions because they're bullshit and um and now we have you know these system, I would argue actually systemically sexist and racist policies in place via uh B A D E I but what you guys make of the the we touched on a little bit earlier, I would really love your opinion on just what that does to minorities in the country who are excelling. Like what do these policies do to them um in my off base, in my missing some piece of this um like is IT actually my assumption is that it's actually is making a life for accomplished black people much more difficult .

yeah I mean, I think that one of the most pernicious and weirdly under discussed aspects of all the dei stuff is um there's a lot of studies, I think that show that if you constantly tell minority students, I think they've ve done studies in math at least and women that they are that's been found that they're like underperforming via v their White or male colleagues. They'll actually do worse on tests if you tell them that like before they take the tests and IT makes sense because if you're constantly signaling to people that they're expected to under perform or that somehow they have to be these exceptional measures taken um such that they perform the way that their White or male peers perform in the sciences or ever, um you can see how that would create this kind of inferiority complex almost in people um and then for people who are performing well, of course their work sort of gets written off as like, well, you're just A D I higher or maybe you know you're here you know if you're women in stem or something, you're here because we needed to have a token woman uh on the team or something like that. Um so I do think that creates all kinds of like psychological complexes that are not healthy for people.

One of the things that I that that I realized during the course of the whole story was that IT seems now that the left has a different opinion about institutions in higher education, then the right um IT seems like because they're now saying that well, because you see a lot of a lot of people on the left on twitter saying, well, a lot of people played a lot of people in academia a plagiarize so we should be going after them too um and generally a pop like being like, yeah he played ice but so what or SHE just copy and paste sentences but not SHE didn't copy somebody y's idea um essentially apologizing for plagiarism but I feel like they really miss the either miss the forest for the trees there um the is being the fact that hard harvard supposed to be in a elite institution with integrity where the best of the best are leading the best of the best students so you should not have a mediocre scholar as the present of harvard you should have somebody um who's an intellectual powerhouse clearly clouding gay is not but if if they're apologizing for plagiarism. Maybe they don't actually think that harvard in our institutions are places for um the very equite people to like literally like high power analytical to um to work on their ideas and to and to um to do that work. Maybe they think of IT as something else you know a place for .

stats that us and it's .

a place where you .

go to get this sort of named as important and that's why they see this sort of D E, S stuff as so valid because it's like, well, there should be an even distribution of something like that as they don't care about academic myriad or you know what your S A. T. Scores were.

That's like something that people who loved, I fundamentally seem to not understand because I think you're right. I think they are definitely like the person. The people who love harvard the most are right wingers there, the ones who still believe in the idea of harvard as a an important institution in the same way they talk about art or cathedrals or something like they're the only ones who still believe in that shit. Everyone else is like this is just where we make bureaucrats and um high satish burek rats of that and so yeah it's like it's not that it's not that hard to do those jobs and we don't need to be that smart like IT doesn't actually matter. You don't have to be a brilliana's mic.

Yeah I also think it's it's kind of funny when people are like why don't we just run all like why don't we if why we singling out claudine gay and not other uh, professors for this kind of treatment because it's like with the rise of AI, they probably could at some point we probably could just run, uh, all tenure track professors in the us. Dissertation through players and checking software. And i'm sure that heads would roll.

Well, it's coming. That I think for sure is that if my read of the internet is correct, like this of conversation that's happening there, this is what people want to do and this is what maybe the ap is really talking about, like they are predicting, you're right. Like if this the institutions are perceived, specifically college colleges, academia is perceived as a sort of like the death star of the left wing.

And um they rely on this illusion of integrity that doesn't seem to really act to exist in fact or released in there are all sorts of people who are worthy of the of the word integrity. I I think that they're correct that this is gonna become something that happens. I think you're going to see tons of plagiarism stuff come out um and that is just it's like an interesting way to go after someone who uses their their integrity themselves as as a kind of weapon, right?

When you have a harvard professor, sit down and be like I you know, I stand for something really important, but actually they are just spouting politics. This is like how journalists say that they stand for, you know, the principles of truth in searching whatever IT is. But that actually it's like they are clearly motivated by politics.

This is now just like sort of honesty filter is going to now be applied, is are even applied to the journalists. Now it's going to be applied to academics. And I don't know how academy are going to are gna survive that on esty, because unlike, I mean, the media doesn't get any money near times is not getting money from the government.

But harvard, harvard got one point five. What billion dollars is? What I read from h was chaos, was ready about this.

I don't know if you get a package on that, how much money to hover kit? How much money does harvard get from the government? Um twenty twenty one was six twenty five million.

I don't know. It's a lot of money. We're not going to be doing that anymore. Like that's going to become that is going to become A A constant political foobar.

Yeah and I think it's also gonna fect a lot of I mean that D I sort of academics are gna be easy targets because some of them are just so transparent in their plagiarism and they just lift no carbon copy locations from other scholars. But I also think it's it's going to come for scientists um because a lot of studies that don't replicate are probably going to be exposed as fraudulent. And then the kind of policies that we've that those studies are used to support will also hopefully uh, be called into question. Um but that what happened at stanford last year.

what happened at stanford.

the president was he basically was made to resign because IT came out that um so he's uh neurobiologist I think for a neuroscientist um and the student newspaper actually broke a very long investigative story suggesting that the sort of keystone alza merse paper that he had published um early in his career was based on misrepresented data um and this LED to a long ongoing investigation where was found that like several of his papers misrepresented data and um the papers were sort of heralded as this milestone um in alzheimer's research and he eventually resigned the summer and retracted the paper. I think a few weeks ago it's .

creating because I was told that this kind of they would never .

happen to A A White man yeah exactly yeah.

I want to talk a bit about the vibe shift because as the conversation of D E I bubbled up uh on social media, the really surprising thing I think for a lot of people is that we could have the conversation at all um the question of obviously whether it's fair or not uh lauding gay came to represent D E I conceptually for a lot of people through her this conversation started to happen um what is IT fair for uh for someone to be hired based on their race or their gender?

Which the practices that he supported well at harvard and also called into question just sort of like again, conceptual through the anti semitic m thing because that that is a question of like who counts as a minority to use count as a minority like when they don't feel safe on campus as a count um this is on the heels of the supreme court ruling about harvard unfair admissions process or let's not say unfair, let's say racially and gender based admissions process and people maybe think that's fair um but we're having that conversation now and people are out there saying, I mean huge people elon musk e every day IT feels like is saying D I is racist IT is synonymous with the word racism. To have a program at your tech company where you are looking, you're tracking agenda and race of other people, that's racist. Brian, I want to read a brian armstrongs tweet from yesterday, which was really remarkable to me because I think for someone like ella mask um iba is massive and he owns twitter and he clearly does not give a fuck with anybody thinks and there's like a little bit of a kyi west thing about him where he can almost get away with stuff because, I mean, kony, I didn't get away with everything the very end they got him.

But for a long time he could get away with pretty much anything because he was just that guy who said shit and iran is his kind of fashioned himself as that and he know the Richard man alive. And runs twelve companies and is just you're not going to really come for him. He's not going to shut up.

But these guys who are running important companies that are huge um that are not quite at elan's level, I think it's a lot harder for them to to speak up. And it's there's a question like why would you speak up about anything that you don't have to you don't really need to. But here is you, brian and strong, who famously.

Put out his memo at his company at the height of the kind of crazy like author cultural authority ism couple years ago, he said, we're not going to be doing politics at work anymore. You're not to be talking about politics in your selection. We're talking about cyp to currency and coin base and those of the things that are permitted.

And if we are taking public positions, which he does are political positions, what IT does take publicly often, they're going to be about our field and our company, and that's IT. And a lot people resign because of that. He paid them to do so.

Sixty, I believe, and never turned back. Facebook quietly copied him after that. That's their policy as well. And um we ve got tons of backlash for IT but survived and remained quite IT relatively on this kind of stuff after that.

So here's brian armstrong talking about A A bill ackman esa on the subject of in gay in the D, E, I stuff. Well said. He says hopefully this Marks the beginning of the end for D, E, I as a movement which got horribly corrupted by mark thought, and they return to a true meritocracy.

One thing not often discussed is it's just not unethical to hire based on race or gender and undermines the candidates who get hired this way. It's also illegal in all fifty states any search which explicit had race or gender as requirement arguably broke the law. And we may see legal action on IT, including one supreme court justice in one ca, one california senator, among many examples.

This is wild from a big CEO in tech. He is not only saying we're not doing the any more, which two years ago would have been unthinkable, he would have immediately been called the White supremest you would have seen this all over every single tech erne um he's saying like you're gonna get so he's telling other ceos not to do IT uh and this is a movement you see huge influence. You see program coming out against this stuff.

Obviously, the FAnnies h from people coming have been coming out against the stuff from forever. Peter teel, who I work for a family fund, wrote literally a book called the diversity myth s one effective years ago. I think he's been on this train but to see IT permit from like a that world of VC to uh to the highest CEO you know there's islan but then you at every level you have brain armstrongs singing IT as well.

This is very much a choice now that CEO are able to make. They don't have to have these programs. And they can say to the recruiters who I I was talking to someone um the other day, he is a series a company.

He has a recruiter who has been very clear with we're not hiring based on race and gender over over and over again. This has to come up because IT keeps like creeping in. Um we're not doing this.

We're not doing this. We're not doing this. We're ho ga only. The expectation is that the team should be natal sort of diverse because there are plenty of talented people all over the place. But we're not doing this.

Rain quoters um saw this document where, uh, there are little Marks next, the names for potential candidates. And he was like, what is this? And a IT was the recruit had to sort of IT people that this is their astracan for diversity.

You know, these are either racial minorities or they are women or whatever. And it's like this is coming, like the CEO can explicit say, do not do this, I do not want to do this and they're still push back. It's still creeps same because it's so strong.

This belief IT is like really ingredient people that this is the right thing to do. But now you have an additional you you have people like you have the entire of industry leadership and not only for venture, but really the important thing is executives in major company is saying this. And you have this additional legal thing that no one is. Really, there are a handful of law source and play right now targeting with the amazon and meta.

But this is on all on the heros of the college lawsuits which seem to indicate that if you were discriminated against based on your your skin color um at a major company, if you were passed up for a promotion um or if uh you were explicit fired, maybe for for a to to maintain A A racial quote that was advantages to the company for whatever reason like you have an opportunity. Sue and and bran is sitting here are saying what I think every CEO i've talked to believe, which is like not only as is wrong, I am pretty sure it's opening us up to litigation and that is come we've already seen litigation and another across not only uh industry but obviously uh academia, it's going to keep happening. Um that's a huge major that is just a huge major change.

Uh, now a question is like is that is that a real subsidy? Uh a real substantial change, right like cutting gay final boss of the E I I don't think so. I know river thoughts about that.

Do you make of like um I I think it's a huge deal that people are talking about this. I'm less convinced that um that we're over this stuff for variety reasons but I do want to hear from you got so I know where you said you were not coming either. What what does your take on this?

Well, I mean, I think that her tenure was like pretty power for the course in terms of like modern academia because like this thing is institutionalize ing this. Why I don't think that she's a final bosses because like people can complain on twitter, whatever, and they can like, sort, like offer a cloudy day like this sacrificial land because he was a shooting scholar.

And like they can have like sort of non ideological reasons for pressuring her to resign. But uh, I mean, this is just gonna like continue to replicate that all. I mean the I in the lawsuit that could change something.

the lawsuit only things that can that can change this. And even still and you do have the clouding gaze of the world to retain i'll find a way in fact, you have president biden encouraging people to find a way around IT and outlining in the college example how possibly you could do that. Um I think you will see that still at companies you will still see journalists attacking companies for their diversity whenever they have to publicly reveal you know racial demographics or gender breakdowns with things like this.

Um but the fact that it's a choice is promising and this vibe shift, like I first think about the the vibe shifts like a year ago I was following islands take over of twitter and the vibe shifted a bit as part of me it's like a funny thing to say oh, the vibe is shifted. I I mean, who knows there's sure there's someone who rote something along these lines before I did, but I I was really applying IT to specifically twitter, politics, culture, um Evans takeover, what that means for all of us, tech culture, bike shift. Uh, that was the beginning.

IT was once things were able to be said, that was the beginning. Today we have people popping off, uh, Oliver throughout the tech witter this week talking about a vide ship that has happened. You know saying things like, wow, like these last few years have been really bad and you couldn't say everything you were thinking.

I'm like, yeah, he was really bad. You might want to ah one thing you could possibly do is like host a conference about forbidden ideas and call IT heritage and like have a high level. This is about hey guys, it's really bad that we can't say important things in twenty twenty.

When I publish the first S H introducing the concept um but i'm glad people have come around and and the vibe shift didn't happen today. That happened a year ago. What's happening today is the end of a cultural shift that has concluded in an open conversation about a topic that people had already made up their minds on like that, that shift had already taking place.

The question moving forward is like what comes next? And because this stuff has in every single institution in a country, not just we're talking about academia, we're talking about tech, it's in the military, right? You have budget items, blind items for dei in the tens of millions of dollars like this stuff is everywhere.

Um I don't know how you roll all that back. Like lawsuits, you're going to do a lot and this will be sort of semi gradual, but there's a lot there that needs to be the road has there's a lot of what that needs to be cut away. You need to build new institutions that bake in the values that are resistant to this kind of stuff. And then as evidence, by my example, earlier of of my friend in of a series aid company, like even when you do all of that, even when you you state you're you're building a new institution, you're saying we're not doing this. You still have like this creep from people who who believe in this like fundamentalist idea that there should be racial quotas.

Yeah I mean, I I think i'm a little bit cynical about the end of D E. I honestly um even though I do agree that there is a very hopeful cultural vibe shift happening just because of how entrenched so many of these bureaucrats are at every level of locals, state and federal politics. I mean, ever you had this great piece a few weeks ago in the industry about all these executive orders that fight and has sort of enshrined D E I in proportion amErica um sefra cisco, you have an office of racial equity and you've got, you know, the human rights commission and all of these organizations that basically function as makeup k programs for D I A Jason activists.

And I always think, like, what are these people going to do if we, you know, if the loss, when the loss is come in and their work becomes obsolete um you're going to have this like massive I don't know how many people are actually like diversity administrators, but I think there's a lot um this massive class of people who are out of work and fighting to the nail to preserve their perverse ideology. And I do think that there's this kind of people sort of their eyes glaze over when you start talking to them about like the nativity of local politics and sort of these executive orders and that kind of things. So there's an attention problem here where people need to understand, you know, we're going to get rid of D I fully in the kind of meaningful way to manifest with these massive relocations of taxpayer money to administrators. You're going to have to start looking at that kind of these know unsexy local organizations you have that .

attention thing is so important and is how this stuff exists, right? This didn't just happen yesterday. This didn't just happen five years ago. And this didn't happen during me, too. This started like before any of us were born in the sort of affirmative action, the original affirmative action conversation that was when I was affirmative action.

What does that mean? That means you have to take affirmative action to correct these racial grivet ces of the past when no longer talking about uh we've reintroduced the phrase systemic racism but when we were talking about affirmative action, we weren't talking about like um the fact that black southern were prohibited from voting. We're talking about like what action can we take to eliminate these historical issues, right?

Like there is a disparity of of, uh, there is a racial disparity in these following institutions. And we can just correct the top down. We have to just do that. That's the only way to fix this. That's where conceptually the stuff began. IT was a long time ago before IT hit the uh adem a and became intellectually zed and the nineties then died and came back um and then really just sort of mainstreamed .

in twenty yeah um White my grandparents are retiring the I think my grandpop like you so how how much you retire nobody says tiring him like my grandpa generation and they're fairly on for grandpa, like mom having when he was like teen like they're the last generation of people who are like still even in the workforce who grew up under segregation and like we're living to in such a completely different world than we were back the like it's like like kinyarWanda gravers are like taucher that and they were like, no like IT was like crazy like they were like they were protest like people were like like the first day of like integration like somebody through like a beer bono like a black was like walking down the street, like it's like really fucked up crazy stuff um and like you did have to have like something extreme when you did actually forcibly like integrate these institutions.

But like IT should have come with like an exploration day because now like we're living in a time where really nobody who's working grew up under that system. And so you're not you're just dealing with a set of people for whom like the realities of like segregation and gym m crew are like A A story memory. They were not like part of your lived experiences as somebody currently in the workforce. I disagree .

slide I don't because I think the policies you're talking about, the force integration um are they're like ideologically separate. So what you're seeing while lauding gay was speaking before congress, one of the things that came up, and I forget which congress minuit was, black, gentle man, can't river now conservative. He brought up the housing at harvard and the the black only housing which was allowed on campus.

And what he was hiding out there was how different things were and how different this conversation is from the nineteen in the nine hundred and sixty IT was integration. How do we get people together? How do we how do we stop the systemic, uh uh, the lines that are keeping people apart and allow people into into these public places right today, IT seems like we're not integration at all. We're interested in empowering separate racial groups to maintain their separate identities and and somehow coexist separately, right.

is the rise will allow them more of action specifically like, you know, like that served the purpose when your time about like the university obama nineteen sixty five, right? Like you had have affirmative action because the administrators genuinely were like racist who would not have like.

but informative action is much bigger than that. I'm saying ideologically like that stuff is not what we're talking about. They were really not anymore now we're talking about multicultural ism and and I think that the empower ing of people to maintain differences is like very um untenable in a multiracial society. Like you really integration as a concept. Why that is really where a lot we've lost IT um and almost sounds dirty.

The idea of integrations say, hey need integrate, we need to be doing integration or simulation um that wasn't a dirty concept even a few decades ago and now IT seems really bad like no, why can't people maintain their different identities and uh you we have to learn from different cultures and coexist in this weird sort of a cosy pic way it's like, no that's that's not the way forward. The way forward is color blindness and uh in common culture that we all except to be the way that we do things in this country. And one of those things one of those values that we all need to get on board with is that we're not fucking racist.

Um we're not doing hiring quotas and we're not doing gender quotas. We are judging people based on there. They are actual on judging people as a publisher on their content.

They are literal content, not the content of their character that comes later like the actual content they're producing. That's all I care about and that's all I think that is IT is fair. And just to care about a sounds a good yeah I mean.

I agree I I just find honestly I agree that the from of action should have come with an expiration day. I think that's very true point um and I mean the I think the former present of yale wrote a book where he made a similar point and fees the president actually but a professor yeah A A book recently where IT makes a similar point about that um but I just i'm constantly infuriated by the di stuff because I just find IT so patronizing to minority groups and to women to everyone who IT claims that it's trying to elevate.

And I think that you know at the end of the day, if amErica does not if amErica continues to um issue meritocracy, it's going to be to our loss because you know you can only you know equity as a concept, for example, in mathematical achievement makes no sense. You're always going to have people who are in lower lower you know twenty five percent of achievement and you're always going to have people who are in the upper twenty five percent. And um the only thing we can do is elevate mediocrity y and play excEllence basically um and that I think we'll be to our detriment um IT will be to our detriment politically. It'll be to our detriment technologically um and so I think that you know there's also a very sort of important um social advancement component, all of this and it's not .

even hoping black americans and is hoping elite third worlders who are the their children and my clogging gays like a promp examples that like she's was a professor of african american history, she's not an african american shehaabs an and grow and went to private boarding schools growing up and like did all this like it's actually like if you go through statistics like the D I D want to say like the something like sixty percent of like black and hardly uh um I like evi gue universities are not african americans there the children of care band or african immigrants so like the original and ten is like completely like that does not even makes sense from the point of like writing the historical whatever disadventure ges of like african americans throughout there many, many generations in this country. It's actually just helping people who you know grow with pair with master s. Grace, just kind of the boat yep.

Well, IT does seem it's a on its way, I don't know out, but it's on its its on its way to, I don't know, further controversy. I guess we're going to continue to have this conversation. Not really a pie wires though probably let's be onest.

I think nationally, it's gonna boil up over twenty twenty four. There are going to be lawsuits and a and there is going to be a question of whether or not you are allowed illegally as a CEO to discriminate based on race, which is a question I thought we answered many decades ago. Apparently not.

Um I do think we going to answer IT this year twenty twenty four. That may be my big prediction for the year. Um great.

Have you all back? Great to be back. Stoked for gauge is coming up. Just keep that in the back of your mind. Please rate reviews, subscribe sure this with your friends. Uh, tell everybody about the power wires pod and we will see you back here next week weather.