Apple’s Siri Just Lost to Perplexity, iPhone 17 Air Looks Real, Apple Watch 10th Birthday
01:22:03 Share

Darby Shaw, you take my breath away. Welcome to Primary Technology, the show about the tech news that matters. Google has lost not one, but two court cases, and it could mean big things for the future of Chrome, Android, and more. We're going to talk about that. Apple's Siri team is getting overhauled. The perplexity came in with voice AI in their app, and...

It's actually pretty good. The Humane AI Pen might be resurrecting. iPhone 17 Air might have a model of it and what it looks like and a ton more. This episode is brought to you by not one but two sponsors, Insta360 and Notion. And of course, all of you, the members who support us directly. I'm one of your hosts, Stephen Robles. And joining me...

Wondering if he got the movie quote from the beginning Jason Aten, how's it going? I'm wondering if I got the movie quote? Is that what you're trying to say? I'm wondering Darby Shaw I'm joining you in wondering I mean it's not really helpful It's like

Han Solo, what do you think? It's hard to know. Actually, that would be harder because Han Solo's in a lot of movies. Well, yeah, there's a lot of movies. Do you know the character Darby Shaw and what he might be from? Yeah, Julia Roberts. What's the John Grisham book? The Pelican Brief. Ah, there it is. The Pelican Brief. I've read every John Grisham book, just so you know, and I've probably seen most of the movies. John Grisham, I got into it. The Pelican Brief was my inroad to it. Not the firm? I don't know why. The Pelican Brief was more a

when I was, I guess, getting into that stuff. Okay, how many John Grisham books have you read? Well, I knew you were going to ask me that. Let me list a couple. The Firm, have you read The Firm? No, I didn't read The Firm. Wait, have you, okay, have you read any of these books or have you just seen one? No, I read The Pelican Brief, cover to cover. Okay. I read The Pelican Brief. I know I read one or two others. Read the book or seen the movie, The Firm? I,

I think I've seen half the movie. We'll keep going. You know who was in it, right? Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise. Yeah. And the guy that just passed away. What was his name? I was going to say Al Pacino, but then you said he passed away and that's not. Al Pacino. No. A Time to Kill. I think I saw that movie. The Runaway Jury. Yes. The Client. The Client. Yes. I've seen it. Yes. I've seen it. No, not the partner. The Rainmaker. That was a Matt Damon movie, I think. I think I saw The Rainmaker. I'm also, who was the other author? Not

Not John Grisham, but the guy who wrote like Rainbow Six and those books. Tom Clancy? Tom Clancy. This is so fun to talk about pop culture with you. Like you're the guy with the movie podcast and I'm the one. No, you have all the knowledge. No, but Tom Clancy, I think I read more of his books and his were less, I think, cerebral and more like action packed and stuff like that.

and they also had some video games based on those books well the difference is that one of them are spy books and the other one takes they all take place in courtrooms yeah exactly exactly and the spy with the exception of the pelican brief which is where a supreme court justice is assassinated part of that takes place in a movie theater but the movie right denzel washington julia roberts pelican brief all right you know we got a lot we have a lot of news i was looking for my none of it relates to any of that sorry we were a tech podcast believe it or not if this is your first time listening we

We are not a John Grisham, Tom Clancy podcast. We are a tech podcast. And there's a lot of tech news. I was looking for my low battery shirt this morning because I stayed up trying to pre-order the Nintendo Switch 2. I saw your posts about that. I assume you did not. I registered, but I didn't get any notifications. Well, it was weird because the Nintendo ones, it's some kind of lottery that you may or may not get in to pre-order. But last night, pre-orders opened for Target,

Best Buy and Walmart and Jason.

It was a bloodbath. I mean, this thing was like... You were pushing people off the website, weren't you? I was literally fighting people virtually with my refresh button. It was a dumpster fire. First of all, real quick, Target, total dumpster fire. I tried hitting the checkout button a thousand times. It kept erroring out. Some people, like Quinn Nelson and others, posted these pictures. They would let you get through to the order and then send you an email that your order was canceled minutes later.

so never got target to work best buy it showed it as like not available and then around 12 30 eastern time you could start pre-ordering it but you have to like wait in line which is the weirdest like web thing to look at it's like well what do i do now do i just stare at this taylor swift ticket thing where ticket master right makes you wait in line i'm like what line is the real like what line is this can i at least get a counter and

And like, there's a little circle thing going, but it was, I don't know if to refresh the page. So anyway, the best buy thing, I never got it to go through, but Alaric 1245, I did not expect this to be the hero of the night. Walmart, Walmart, let me go in and pre-order didn't make me wait in line. And supposedly I got it for June 5th, like launch day. It's supposedly coming. I don't understand this in the, but these websites are all hosted on AWS, right? And if they can like,

They host the entire internet. They host Netflix. Netflix had 60 million people watching like football on that. Mike Tyson fight. Those started buffering. They couldn't handle it. But since then, that wasn't, that was a Netflix problem, not an AWS problem. So maybe that wasn't the best thing, but I'm like, do they not pay for enough? Like what, what line is what, but here's the best part, Steven. Yes. Right now on target.

nintendo switch 2 console has a 2.1 star rating 71 of the ratings on there are one star and is it just because people are mad because of the dumpster fire how can they possibly have even rated i don't even know why do they let people rate things that haven't actually shipped yet that's why star ratings on the internet that's a tough one you know i've been seeing on amazon a lot saying frequently returned item

And it could even be like a highly rated item. It'll be like four and a half stars with a thousand reviews, but it says frequently returned. And I'm getting hesitant to like buy some of this stuff. I'm curious. Not that I need more MagSafe chargers, but. I mean, if it's like clothing and stuff, that makes sense. You'll buy a bunch of different size shoes. You buy like four sizes of them and then you return three of them. So yeah, that's a pretty highly returned item. No, it was weird things. But anyway, anyway, I got in the Walmart. Supposedly I'm getting it. We'll see. But it was, it was a fight to the death. And so I was up trying to order that.

And yeah, it was, but the price didn't change. No, the price didn't change. Oh yeah. They were talking about the price was going to change and the price appears to be the same. It appears to be the same. And also yesterday, Nintendo tweeted out that there's crazy demand for the switch to, and telling people like their lottery system for those who signed up on the Nintendo website may like,

People in Japan, it's going to be very difficult to get one. And I don't know how they allocate numbers for different countries or whatever. But anyway, I got mine in. We'll see. I have one last question. Yes, you there. How can an item that ships on June 5th

be sold out. Well, that's just what they have. That's just like what they, can they not make more between now and June? Like three months, two months away, but each retailer is allocated a certain number. Like there were game stops literally printing out like pieces of paper and taping them to their door saying this location will have 50 Nintendo switch to bundles and 32 Nintendo switch consoles. And so like, that's just how many you can preorder. So it's just like a limited stock for each retailer. Yeah.

So here's my thing. And I want our listeners, I want to know what you think about this. I think artificially limiting supply for something that doesn't come out for two months is the most ridiculous customer experience ever.

possible because they can make more between now and then what did they shut the factory down and they're moving on to the switch three already like come on like make more that's not coming for another 10 years well and this is again kudos to apple's pre-order process which yeah you know have they ever said i'm sorry no you can't have an iphone 16 pro they might say it's going to take you six more weeks you could have bought the 2013 mac pro all the way up to 2018 like

No, but it still paid $5,000 for it. It doesn't make sense. Yeah. They should just say, you're not going to get it on launch day. Like what Apple does. Like, well now the shipping time is in July or now it's in September or whatever it is. But after last night, I will say I am thankful for Apple's recent pre-order processes because I think I've never not, hold on. I don't want to, let me not triple negative this. I have gotten everything I've pre-ordered on launch day for the last five, six years. Um,

And I don't remember the last time it was delayed. I remember there being like stressful pre-order process. I don't know if it was iPhone 10 or 11 and it was like

you know, the Apple store would crash or wouldn't let you check out. And typically what I run into, like if I'm going to pre-order something, I would like to pick it up in the store because you can get it earlier that day. But the problem is checking out with a window for pickup means if that window gets taken while you're checking out, it'll error out the order. And then you have to go back and select a later time. And it's like, if I tap the order, can you just hold it for like two seconds so I can...

Face ID this payment. But that's why I typically default to delivery and then meet the UPS guy at a random gas station. That's something I actually do. You have to just scroll through Steven's Twitter feed, you'll find it. Do you remember, I'll recall the last pre-order process, but the last time maybe you didn't get something on launch day or that it was super stressful. I remember, this is way long ago, but the iPhone 6, it was the last iPhone I pre-ordered through my carrier, AT&T,

And that process was a dumpster fire. And that was like the AT&T website just could not do it. Like you're saying, I don't know AWS. I don't know what the deal is, but I just, I did get it. I did get it on launch day, but it was like an hour of refreshing, whatever. But the only time I can think of that, I didn't, that it wasn't going to be able to get something on launch day through a pre-order. I just showed up at the Apple store on launch day and got one. And you got one. Yeah. You can listen, by the way, listeners, don't,

you can almost always do that. Unless you live in New York City, you can almost always show up at an Apple store on launch day and get the thing you want. Yeah, I don't know. The brand in Florida, Apple store though, they get like five of whatever for launch day non-pre-orders, I think. So you have to go to a bigger store. That's just my recommendation. Go to a store that's like bigger than the single aisle Apple store.

apple store that we have here well maybe a better way of saying it is they get new stock every day and you can usually identify what stock they have by some i don't remember when it is it's either like 9 p.m or it's like whatever and you could go in and see if you can order one for pick up the next day right and so you may not get it on launch day but you'll definitely get it before like november like if you just do that on a fairly regular basis right and if you didn't order pre uh switch to last night you can probably get one

2028 I think I think that's when it will be you can buy one used probably from Steven after he realizes that it's gonna sit on his desk next to his humanity I pin oh now listen now we gotta get to that hold on we gotta get to that I want to do three five-star review shoutouts real quick thank you for your five-star reviews we're still a 4.9 star show but with your help I think we can get back to five stars Norbert Adams jr. from the USA we inspired them to start their own tech channel which is very kind and

Jonathan speak from the USA where his fave tech podcast and he's a brass players are the best which I have to agree. I play trumpet if you didn't know and Mikhail Klimovich. I don't know if I said it is this lame NASA but from Czech Republic that we're fun to recommend. Let's compliment fun to recommend. I wonder if there's a translation thing happening there because fun to recommend that makes sense interesting. That's what I mean. Listen, you tell somebody about primary tech which you 100% should do you

you have fun doing it because you know they're going to have a great time. That's a good point. Exactly. All right, one housekeeping thing before we get to news. We did a poll in the community last week for what member benefits you would like in addition to the ad-free versions of the show and bonus episodes. We had a small sample set, but I realized there's a bunch of you listeners out there who are not in the community, and we really need to know who is actually a member right now and what benefits they would want and who would actually sign up

like with this new benefit what benefit would motivate someone to sign up so we have another poll

So please go take it. It'll be in the show notes. But it's a Google form and you don't have to sign in. It doesn't collect your email. It doesn't even ask for your name. Totally anonymous. But you could just three clicks, click the form, click one of the checkboxes or more. Or you could that we have other box if you wanted to suggest a different benefit. And we just ask if you're a current member. And so if you could, everybody.

There's literally thousands of you. It's not even an exaggeration. There are thousands of you out there. We would love to have a bunch of you. Let us know what benefit would you be like, yes, I will now support primary tech because they do this. Or if you have a suggestion, you could put it in the other box. Give me the first link in the show notes and we would love to hear from you. Yeah, we're excited to do it. People were leaning towards a daily podcast with the top headlines, like a short show, which is something I can do in Apple Podcasts and Memberful.

but we want to know we want to know what uh like maybe what you want is for us to do a monthly review of a john grisham book like just tell us you can fill out the other and when steven says like he uh the he we did a poll and then realized there were some problems what do you mean i just want you all to know steven is so excited about this because we really appreciate our members so much that he was like ready to launch like seven things today and i said hang on

I feel like there's one additional piece of information we need. And so what we just want to know is if you are a member, we appreciate you. What are the additional benefits that would just make you want to continue being a member? Exactly. And if you're not a member, that means that like having an ad free version of the show, not as important to you. We would love to know what would be important to you that would make you want to be a member. So just, just to want to clarify that. Yes. Bottom line too. We appreciate everyone listening and watching. We are,

our growing show. We've been growing over the last year. It's almost a year and a half now. We started last January. And so, yeah, we appreciate everyone just listening and watching. And let us know. Let us know what you'd like more of or different of. And you can use that form to do it. And you know what else you can want more of? Is more humane AI pin news. We're going to spend three seconds on this. But...

This project called openpin.org. They have now like some code or something that you can connect your Humane AI pin to a computer, run this whatever, and it will unbrick it. Because if you're unfamiliar, Humane AI pin, the failed AI device, since Humane is now defunct, it's basically a paperweight and has been on my desk as a paperweight ever since. But I never took it off. I don't know why. Maybe in the back of my mind, I thought someone will do this. And so you have to buy this like weird...

pin thing sorry not the humane ai pin an interposer which is like a device that will allow you to connect your humane pin to your computer and then like have a usb connected to your computer by usb i bought this immediately it's like 40 bucks whoever's making it is apparently in florida because it ships from florida so it's it already shipped it's on it's on its way to me right now and i'm gonna try and hack into my humane ai pin and

To see if I can actually use it again. I don't know what it'll do. Uh, but Steven, Steven, you didn't use it when it worked. What are you going to do now with the unbricked version? The thing basically shipped to you bricked because there was no useful reason to have it. And you're going to spend, I mean, actually for the pot, I'm so glad you're doing this because it's giving me opportunity to just point out that you didn't want to use it when it was working the way he made sent it to you. What more will it? It's not going to do anything. Uh,

apparently I'm looking at this website. It'll do translation. You can do the assistant with vision. So I don't know if this is like hacking it to just be able to still ask chichi, chachi, but he things, but even like take pictures and stuff. So,

I don't know. We'll see. I'm going to test it out. I'll probably make a video about it because this is wild and I haven't seen anybody else do it. I don't know if anybody cares, but I'm going to do it. I think you should definitely do it. Both for your YouTube channel and for the show. I just want to be on the record that the thing didn't do anything when it worked.

I don't think it's going to do anything more now. Yeah, that is true. Okay. Well, you know what does do stuff and this is wild. I don't know if you've had a chance to play with this perplexity, which is honestly one of the AI tools that I have not been using as much as Chachapiti and as much, I mean, basically at all, but yesterday they updated the perplexity app on iPhone to integrate the voice assistant in their app with multiple features on the iPhone and

And it is pretty incredible what it can do. I was playing around with it yesterday. It can...

You can set reminders, create reminders with the alerts. You can create calendar events. It can play Apple music, Apple podcasts. You guys get to search for YouTube videos and it can do all of that. And then even use maps, use Apple maps, and then make reservations at restaurants all like through the perplexity voice assistant. It does have to kick you over to like open table to finish the reservation, but Apple maps results and using that information, it's all like there.

You can just do it all. And honestly, it is even with the limited access it has now, it's so much better than Apple's voice assistant because it just understands you and like it works. So I'm just going to do a quick example here. I created a new action button shortcut where it's very complicated. I'm gonna talk about it in a video probably later today. Anyway, starting the thing.

And I'll say, show me the best Vietnamese restaurants in Lakeland, Florida. One thing about perplexity is the voice is very slow, like when it's responding, which is kind of... Here are some of the best Vietnamese restaurants. I'm sorry if you're... Yeah, that worked really well. That was a good demo. No, no, look. It gives me the... Okay, okay, all right. Calm down. Calm down.

Uh, but anyway, so it gives me, it gives me the map. Like you see the Apple maps results, you see all the stuff. And then it will say like, do you want to make a reservation at one of these places? And then you can just do it. Uh, but let me, let me try another one and hopefully it will be less verbose, but you can ask it things like play that song from the Minecraft movie where Jack Black sings about his dog. I'm going to try and do this. Okay. Well, that didn't work as well. It gave me a result for the Tampa theater. I don't know what that, Oh no, no. Here it is. Here it is.

It's playing the song. It's playing it from YouTube, but if I asked it for Apple Music, it probably would do that. But, Jason, that's good. I understand. If you ever try to have Apple's voice assistant play a song from a certain artist, you know how frustrating that can be. Perplexity has gotten it way more times. I just want to remind our listeners that Perplexity is the...

AI startup that basically has been accused by everyone of just blatantly plagiarizing. They're the ones in the Wired story where they asked it to write a story and it basically just plagiarized the Wired story about how it plagiarizes. I am not advocating for perplexity here.

I just want to say that every time perplexity comes up, as if the entire AI landscape wasn't on questionable copyright grounds, perplexity is not on shaky grounds. It has fallen deep into the hole of copyright plagiarism. But this feature in particular...

is more so the impressive part for me is how it has integrated into multiple iPhone features being just a sandboxed app, which other apps do this, you know, like reminders, calendars, Apple music, Apple podcasts, which you can ask it for like primary technology show, which I should probably do. You could like other apps have access to that. Like that's why fantastic Cal can show you reminders and calendar events in its app or the things app can show reminders and calendar events there.

Like there are hooks into those parts of your phone. Also Apple music and podcasts. You can like log into those accounts on third party devices and services, some cars. And so there are, there were already hooks into all of this, but the impressive part is that they've somehow managed to pair your requests with perplexity system to then actually go to those hooks reliably. And some people were having issues with like reminders and calendar events, but yeah,

I found it to be pretty reliable. Reminders and stuff worked well. Play the latest episode of the Primary Technology podcast from Apple Podcasts. And also, it's way better just in natural language and stuff. So let's see if it did it. It also tells you all the sources. And look, it actually just opened Primary Technology in the Apple Podcasts app, and it's ready to go. I mean, that's not the latest episode, because, buddy, we're making the latest episode right now.

right now that it knows of that it knows listen it is impressive but what that is like saying that i would be a very impressive writer if all i did was plagiarize hemingway malcolm gladwell and her and you know like shakespeare listen john grisham john grisham that's the name all i'm saying is perplexity a sandboxed app that does not have as much access to the ios that apple does has made a better voice assistant in whatever the last two years than apple has made in the last

And so, you know, a lot of people on social media were like, Apple just needs to like buy perplexity. Maybe that's not a bad idea. Maybe that would fix some issues. We're going to talk about that in a second, but I find it impressive. You can do it for free. You don't have to pay for perplexity pro to use the voice assistant with the iOS hooks. I would encourage you to try it out. I've mapped it now to my action button because like, especially for music requests, just better. Like it's just better. So that's the impressive part. It'd be scary.

already it's better at plagiarism than siri though are you mad about perplexity you just are you do you have like a vendetta i think that of all of the i think of all the ais i mean like realistically all of them are just siphoning up all of the information on the internet right but the difference is that what perplexity will just do is it will just present you that information as if it did it itself i see

It's just literally plagiarism. So it's not crediting properly. It's not just that it's not crediting the stuff. Because it will... I think they were like billing themselves as like an answer engine. Because essentially perplexity is not necessarily an answer.

an LLM, the way we think about like chat GPTs models or whatever, it's using different types of model things and it's using it to try to go out and get information for you. But when you ask it to do chat body type things, what it will often do is just literally regurgitate and plagiarize things just like a high school student does. And so to me, I'm in, and actually the thing that makes it worse is when called on it, like when asked about it, the CEO was just like,

I mean, that's just a misunderstanding about how the internet works, which is really just saying, please let us copy, you know, steal copyrighted information because otherwise our model doesn't business plan doesn't work. So now, yeah, I'm not a big fan of perplexity. Okay. Now I'm not trying to catch you on anything here, but I know you do enjoy Chachapiti's deep research feature. Do you put that in a different category as far as like what it's doing with the source material? Or is that just useful enough where you,

You're just going to use it because it's there anyway. Well, deep research, to my knowledge, and I haven't read anyone else who has suggested this, is not plagiarizing things. Now, that doesn't mean that OpenAI didn't scoop up a bunch of copyrighted information. So I know this wasn't the thing we want to talk about. I actually have no idea what to think about this because copyright literally means you're making a copy of a thing.

Okay. There's that. But I don't really know how I'm just taking the devil's advocate approach to this because

When you ask a large language model to scoop up a bunch of information so that it can, quote, learn so that it can then answer things, that's literally the same thing that we do as human beings. The difference is there's zero friction. Right. So I'm not arguing that it's OK all of a sudden because copyright is a real thing. I'm a writer. I make a living on copyright. Right. So I'm OK with that. But I think it's very nuanced. But that's different than plagiarism. Sure.

And plagiarism, because it's like an exact replica of... Well, plagiarism is taking someone else's work and passing it off as your own. Even if it's... As opposed to... Right, worded. It's like instead of reading a book and learning about something and then writing about the thing you learned about from the book, it's just taking paragraphs from the book and putting them in your thing. And that's what it was caught doing, like literally verbatim copy-pasting kind of stuff. They literally... Wired published a story about perplexity

And in the story, they were talking about how, well, then the other thing they were doing is that the story pointed out that they were indexing content that publishers had put the no index, you know, the right, right. I remember that unsavory and they're saying like, don't do this. And they kept switching to different ones all the time. Right. So I'll put this, I found the wired article. I'll put it in there. I do remember that perplexity was ignoring the tags to say, don't scrape this, which is super unsavory.

And so maybe I shouldn't be as bullish on it. I just think. I agree with you about the point that like, why can't Apple figure this out? I just wish that someone else would figure it out and not these guys. Well, and I'm curious if they, if Apple should have just bought one of these LLMs earlier on, like a year ago, two years ago, maybe, maybe they would still get a jump ahead or at least skip forward some steps if they were to do something like that to integrate it.

but yeah 100 they should have bought anthropic anthropic you think that's the one they should have bought i think that was the one that they could have gotten i don't think there's ever going to be a time they could buy open no they can't do that zero percent because no one was even thinking about chat gpt and then it was like huge like instantly there's just no way sam altman when you get 100 million users in a week would be like there's no price like he that's going to be a two trillion dollar company someday yeah and it's

And it's crazy. ChatGPT is only like two and a half years old. Basically, yeah. I'm looking at the Google AI overview about ChatGPT. We're like, it's like a Russian nesting doll of AI. It's like inception here. It's terrible. Anyway, yeah. November 30th, 2022. So that's, yeah, it's about two and a half years, which is wild. I mean, this is one of the things where I don't know what, I'm sure there's a psychological term for it, but when you think something's been around forever, it's

but it's really only been like two and a half years i mean it feels weird because a year later the guy was fired and rehired in like span of four days over thanksgiving yeah i was trying to sit on the beach and he's uh you were in florida at the time right because it was over i was in florida trying to just chill and sit on the beach and i had to like work on my vacation because the guy was fired and then sachem nadella went in with like a machine gun and he's like hey say hello to my little friend so many references

All right. Well, that's perplexing. So speaking of Apple's AI team, there was another Bloomberg article talking about all the changes that they are making to the voice assistant team since John Gianandrea has been moved to like AI research, which seems like some label of a position that I don't know, probably not gonna be doing much. Let's be honest. I mean, that was what he was hired to do. It was a hire. He's going to go back to doing that and not actually, but how that's going to fit actually into Apple's products. Like,

We'll see. We'll see how long is it. But anyway, this is in the Bloomberg article. Mark Herman is saying that a long time vision. It's like they moved a bunch of Vision Pro people, which along with Mike Rockwell, who led the team. But Vision Pro engineering lead Ranjit Desai will oversee Siri engineering, including platform and systems groups. Vision Pro senior director Olivier Guttnick will lead the team that designs the user experience. And Vision Pro engineering director Nate Guttnick

Benjamin and core OS senior director, Tom Duffy will work on series underlying architecture. I'm curious who's still working on vision pro at this point. Yeah. All the rumors about another vision pro never going to happen because they just raided the building. It's empty. Now there are just desks everywhere. And these guys are all working on. Tim Cook walks into that vision pro was like, Hey, all you guys,

Get over here. He's like, he walks in, he's like, pack your stuff. And they're all like, oh, that's it. We're getting fired. He's like, no, listen, we need you to do something else now because we, we have a worse product than the vision pro. Exactly. Vision pro. It'll be fine. Let's go. So yeah, I'm curious what that is. But anyway, everybody's moving over to the voice assistant team. So we'll see. I, I, there's no way that this new team could build something in time for dub dub in a month to announce.

And so I feel like unless they make up some demos again, like concept videos like they did last year, we're not going to see anything at DubDub as a result of these moves. Right. I mean, it's. And well, so you're let's distinguish because there is a difference between Apple intelligence and Siri. Fair. So there's a I think it's very likely we'll see some kind of Apple intelligence demos there.

And I think it's also possible that there are things that they were working on already planning on announcing at dub dub that they may still roll out. Right. This, I feel like there are two things happen. Like these two things are happening sort of in parallel now. Right. These guys are coming in and they're like, okay, here's where we need to be by next year. Here's where we need to be in three years. But the stuff they didn't just all of a sudden be like,

I mean, the Vision Pro guys aren't working on the Vision Pro anymore, but presumably there were still people working on Siri that are still doing those things. It's just going to take them some time because I think what they have to do is build a whole new system and then figure out how do we replace the old system with the new system without making everybody mad because nothing works anymore. Because Steven will be very mad if you cannot open his blinds and turn on his fan. Don't break HomeKit. Absolutely. If anything breaks HomeKit, there's going to be...

you'll have a problem the product or the OS that only like 17 people use don't break that there's lots of HomeKit people out there I know the HomeKiteers relative though to Vision Pro what do you think over or under oh my goodness there are way more HomeKit people than Vision Pro you really think so there's entire YouTube channels about HomeKit stuff I don't see any YouTube channels just Vision Pro

I'm just saying. All right. You're probably right. I'm just saying Eric Wielander, Shane Wadley, all those guys, those are all HomeKit. That's all HomeKit stuff. Email the other guy at podcast. Wait, the email the other guy at primarytech.fm if you are a HomeKit user.

And you don't have a vision, bro. And you don't have a vision pro that email does work. The other guy at primary tech. If you can figure out what group of people I just described and you're in it, you can email me now. I want to, I want to see some video parody of like when they finally get the voice assistant to a good place.

Of like Tim Cook saying, we got to go to the Siri team, but it's like, they go to like to the basement of apple park and they open a door and it's like moths fly out. Like what? I know they wouldn't do that, but like, that'd be hilarious. It was just like this old decrepit. Like, all right, let's go. Or so, Oh, even better. You should make it a severance office. They should do like a severance floor. And that's where the, I'm just giving free ideas. Apple. I'm just saying.

But also Apple. Do not break HomeKit, okay? Don't do it. Also, shortcuts actions, okay? We need Apple intelligence shortcuts actions. Summarize, transcribe, what is happening? Anyway, I'm done.

This is the most terrifying segment of the show. I got real close to the camera if you watch on YouTube. So hopefully somebody doesn't clip that. I think that that came through on the audio too, to be honest, everything about that was very close and personal. People will listen to this in their car, just drove off the side of the road because suddenly they thought Steven was right behind them in the car with them. That's right. Yeah. The calls come from inside the house. Uh,

All right. Last thing before we take a break. Did you see, did you see the new, the latest we're going to talk about Apple ads now on the show and just, we should rate them. We should have like an Apple ads, like rating system. Did you see the latest ad? Yeah. Apple's ads are getting weird. That was literally part of the show title last week. This is the latest Apple intelligence ad, which to Apple's credit is actually a feature that works and exists right now. And is actually probably one of the best features currently. And this ad is basically a dude flexing, uh,

in his room and his mom is taking pictures of him flexing I guess to post on Tinder or whatever and so he then uses the cleanup feature which is an Apple intelligence feature to remove from the mirror reflections and that is the that is the ad what do we think what's the over under Jason you like this ad better or the shirtless guy on the roof that

that we looked at this is a trillion times better and i don't like this ad but it's a it's it's super better than the other one it is i think it is super better than the other one now you said you said we had to watch that ad last week with audio i watched the ad afterwards because i was going to write about it and i still might but if you listen to the ad there's like the voice of the person going glare glare okay okay and then it's like no glare i'm

So it makes a slightly better connection between the thing. Let me try to actually play this. Ha ha ha! Glare.

Okay. Oh, someone was asking, do we think that's an air tag on his chest? I don't think so. That would be a really weird product. Especially since Apple officially says you should not put air tags on people. Oh, really? Yeah. When they first came out, I think they said don't put them on people or pets. But if you put an air tag in a necklace around your own neck, can you then never lose yourself?

I lost an AirTag the other day and my phone kept telling me I had left my keys somewhere. And I'm like, they're right here. And then it occurred to me, oh, the AirTag fell out of the little case. Oh, my. Well, that's a bad case. That's a cheap Amazon case. Actually, you're right. It is a terrible case. And I'm thinking of because this little case, you could just like. No, no, no. It just fell out. It just fell out. No. Yeah. No. Get the Apple leather one. Oh, no. I have a couple of good ones. You can't be doing that anyway.

This is... Oh, gone. Gone. That's what it says, yeah. Okay, I mean, with the audio, it's kind of funny. It still is bad, but it makes more sense.

I will put both the new Apple intelligence ad and the glare ad. I hope you enjoyed that audio too. That's going to be some ASMR. It was real loud. Was it loud? Well, we'll see. I'll have to watch it in the editor. See how it goes. Anyway. Yeah. Apple intelligence ads are getting interesting. We just talked about iPhone 17 air models are out. Apple sports app got updated, which maybe Jason will care about the sports ball.

Ads are finally coming to threads and Google's big court case, which is significantly going to affect their business. But before we do, we have not one but two sponsors today. Sponsor number one, Insta360. Let's be honest, you probably saw this camera on the internet recently because it's been all over and for good reason. I don't have the camera to review, but I watched or saw the Verge's review of it and they actually said it's actually an incredible camera.

It's the new Insta360 X5. It's the new flagship 360 camera. It has 8K 360-degree video, enhanced low-light performance, 185-minute battery life. You can almost record a full episode of Primary Technology with it. No, I'm just kidding. User-replaceable lenses and the most durable yet. And if you go see some of the videos, you can actually see people like the lens now being replaceable means people are basically breaking it, and then you can replace it.

So it's built from tougher optical glass. So it's superior drop resistance capability. It's now easily replaceable by the user, which is wild. So that you can get a replacement lens kit and you can replace the lens yourself. So you're going to be doing things action wise down the ski slope. I know, Jason, do you ski?

Yeah. You do really? Yeah. Well, there you go. As Jason skis, maybe he can put like an Insta360 in his something, you know, you hold the thing. Yeah. I've always wanted to catch it on video when I fall and break my leg. Listen, that'd be great for fail army. You should totally do it because also you can get the invisible selfie stick. So you can get that third person views. You can shoot first person point later. How did you get that third person angles?

and drone like follow shots and iconic 360 degree views so the pole disappears you ever see those videos and you're like how are they capturing this it's with these insta 360 cameras with the invisible pole thing so you get the insta 360 x5 again has that longer longer battery life and ip68 waterproofing so up to 15 meters or 49 feet deep in the water so if you're going scuba diving all the action you're going to be doing this summer capture it with the insta 360 x5 and a huge battery

built-in wind guard and improved audio algorithm, try it out. So here's what you do. To bag a free 45-inch invisible selfie stick, so Jason, you can get the invisible selfie stick, worth $25 with your Insta360 X5 purchase, go to store.inst360.com and use the promo code PRIMARY, just one word, PRIMARY is the promo code, available for the first 30 purchases only. So...

So yeah, I guess better run and go get it. For more information, be sure to check out the links in the show notes so you can get the direct link in the show notes to the X5 and use promo code PRIMARY.

And yeah, that's awesome. Insta360 X5. Thanks for sponsoring the show. And our good friends who power our show notes, at least the ones between Jason and I, Notion. We're literally using Notion right now. I'm staring at Notion with my eyeballs and I see Jason's little J because I see where his cursor is. Not to be creepy. You know what I mean? I don't even know where my cursor is, but I'm glad that you can see it. That's why Notion AI is the best. Especially we collaborate on our show notes every week with Notion. And it's incredible. You could...

create documents, project manage. I do video project management in Notion and a ton of other stuff. Notion is super powerful, combines notes, docs, projects in one space that's simple and beautifully designed. And you can now leverage the power of AI right inside Notion. This is really powerful when you just put everything there. So if you're doing your notes in Notion, your projects, your tasks, you can put full video transcripts. I've done that. Put all of your notes and docs in there and then use Notion AI to

All in one place. You don't have to jump back and forth between another AI app and where you have your notes and documents. The fully integrated Notion AI helps you work faster, write better, think bigger, doing tasks that normally take you hours in just seconds. And I will say the Notion search is amazing. So we have all of our past episodes in our Notion space. And so when you search Notion, we can get information.

What episode did we talk about this? Or give me a summary about, you know, the most talked about topics, things like that. You can use Notion AI for all of that. It's used by over half of Fortune 500 companies and primary technology and almost five star podcast in Apple podcast. So try Notion for free when you go to notion.com slash primary technology. The link is also in the show notes, all lowercase letters, notion.com slash primary technology to try the powerful, easy to use Notion AI today. When you use our link,

You're supporting the show. Just drive for free notion.com slash primary technology. Our thanks to Notion and Insta360 for sponsoring this episode. Notion. All right. iPhone 17 Air. There was a dummy model, which these come out every year, like around the summertime. These are dummy models that I imagine like case makers probably get these and others. But this is Unbox Therapy. He had the models. He's holding them up.

Seems very, very thin. And this seems now very, very likely that we're going to be getting an iPhone 17 Air model. This looks like the Pro Max, maybe? Or, yeah, Pro and then the regular iPhone 17 and then the Air. That's a very thin phone, Jason. That's very thin. Does that tempt you at all? That thin of a phone? No. Not even a little bit. It super looks like...

There's a giant, like, what are those things called? Like callous on the back, like a planter or whatever they call those things on the back of that thing. I don't understand. I mean, you still want the good camera, but that is a thin phone. No, here's what I want. Do you want to know what I want? The thick phone. I want the, no, no, no, no. I don't want a thick phone.

I want, this is the only thing I care about when it comes to the phone. Cause I go back and forth between using this iPhone 16 pro all the time, but I also carry around an iPhone 16, which is fun because all I use it for is a hotspot. And to back, I'm staring at it right now. It's my, it's my camera. Yeah. I, if they put three cameras on that thing, I would never buy a pro again.

If the cameras were as good and it had pro motion, like I just want you to make the pro phone lighter. Just don't change anything else about it, but stop using stupid metals that are like 14 pounds per square. Well, titanium got lighter because the steel was heavy and the titanium got lighter. Sure. You don't even use the max size, right? You're on the regular. No, I don't. Yeah. My phone got lighter because I went from the max. There you go. That's size. But I picked this thing up.

And then I pick up that, which I won't do right now because you all get motion sickness if I do. It is like no comparison and my heart just craves a lighter phone. There are times when I'm tempted. I'm like, I could live the non-Pro lifestyle. But then I'm like, but I really do appreciate the camera features and I really do appreciate, I think, I don't know if I could deal with the not ProMotion. ProMotion's a big deal because ProMotion on the MacBook Pro

Yes, I appreciate it. But now that I've been using the MacBook Air, I don't miss it. Now that I'm only staring at it. I don't scroll things as often on my computer as I do on my phone. And that's exactly what it is. And so scrolling on the phone and like I've said before, ProMotion on the iPad, when I'm editing this podcast, the audio version, that ProMotion makes a big difference. Because if you're swiping fast and trying to look at audio waveforms as you swipe, the promotion is a big deal because it refreshes faster and you see more detail. But

Yeah, I mean, I'll probably get it just to talk about it, but I would not use the Air. I'm very... Not very, but I am concerned what battery life is going to be on that phone because there's not going to be much battery in that device. This just feels like... Is that really a thing that... I don't know. Do we think people are asking for this? I think people will like it for the visual appeal of a hyper-thin phone and having...

you know, a different body style iPhone, you know, just having, because I imagine now the camera is supposedly going to be different too. You know, it's going to have the big bar across. So this year's iPhones, everything's going to look different. The camera bump, having a thin one, a thin version, maybe, I don't know. It would be, it'll, it's going to, but I mean, it's the camera is going to be basically like the 16 E right. It looks like one camera lens, at least in these mock-ups, but you know, they could throw in, uh,

No, they're not going to do promotion. No, they're not going to throw in anything. Nevermind. But now pricing wise, it could, you know, if it is the cheaper iPhone, that would be interesting. I don't know if it would be, but if you could do cheaper,

I mean, the iPad mini is $200 more expensive than the iPad. Yeah, that is true. And the iPad Air is a lot more expensive than the iPad. This thing's going to be like $699. Which is, isn't that the current price for the iPhone? I'm saying it's not going to be cheaper than anything. That's the minimum they're going to charge for this thing. Yeah, you're probably right.

okay well we'll see it or it's apple so it'll probably be 1500 yeah no well you would you would probably pay a premium for like the new innovation being the thin i just don't yeah we'll see yeah maybe it'll be great who knows anyway i phoned 17 it looks like it's gonna be a thing that's that's the big thing either way props to apple they are the only company i know that can be like here's less of a thing give us more money making something thinner is the ipad i mean that was the whole crush ad is the thinnest ipad ever

And when you're going to put it in something like a case, it is nice to have something thinner. You know what I mean? Because then which, oh, did you see my, my fun case video the other day?

I didn't. I'm sorry. I need to get back into the, you said, have you seen this case? No, this is a hilarious case. It is from, uh, I don't even know. Salt ink or something. Anyway, if you don't want a camera bump, this is the case for you because it basically hugs the entire back of the phone. And now there is no camera bump. I wondered why it kind of looked like a zombie. And now I understand it's missing facial features. It's just completely flat. Now it,

It obviously makes the phone much thicker to hold because it basically has to pad the back of the case, but it does have a camera button. So it actually has a physical Sapphire camera button and it works really well even with the light touches. And now this is going to be my beach case when I go to the beach and the sand and stuff because it's real rubbery.

And I like to protect the phone. Oh, yeah. Sand and rubbery is a great combination. Well, better than leather and stuff because then, you know, leather gets nasty. Anyway, I've been using the Suti back anyway. Wait, I thought you called it a patina. Did you just say it's nasty? No, I said taking it to the beach is nasty if you get all sand and salt water on it. That's my patina right there for the Ryan London leather case. Oh, my gosh. Jason gets grossed out whenever I show that.

Anyway, this applies to you more than me, but Apple Sports Ball, that's the official name of the app, got updated recently. It's not the name. So now you can share the game cards via messages. If you're following a game and you want to send the score and I guess spoil it for your friend who maybe hasn't seen the game yet, you can do that. You can text it and it looks like this nice rich card there. I don't know if I will ever share something from the sports app to anyone ever. Maybe I'll do it to Jason just because. But

but yeah and i'm gonna be like do you know who what sport this actually was these two teams i know did you see this is this is actually for you steven this is i'm gonna this is related um

I don't even know if this is true because I just saw it in like a Twitter post or something like that. Or no, it was an Instagram post. It was some sponsored thing. So you never know. You never know. But what it said was that there's a feature now you can use Gemini in like Google Sheets, for example. So I'm sure this is true. And it had a list of teams, just a list of, you know, Milwaukee Bucks, Golden State Warriors, Detroit Lions, North Carolina Tar Heels, whatever. Yeah.

And it just listed all these teams. The Tar Heels would be a bad example. But then in the next one, you can use AI as a function. And it says, what type of a team is this? So you copied it in there. And when you execute it, it's like basketball, basketball, baseball, football, baseball, basketball. So this would be great for you. That feature looks a lot like the thing with Flighty. So you can share your flight information. It looks exactly like that. That's cool. Let's play a quick game. Give me a random team name that I probably don't know.

And I will try and guess the sport. A random team name that you probably don't know. If you go like professional, I think I would get it. The problem with the college is they have them all. So I can't be like Michigan State Spartans because you're going to be like basketball. Yep. Football. Yep. Oh, really? Yep. All right. Well, do it. Do it. Do it. Wait a minute. Do a professional. Hold on. Oh, really? I don't know. I mean, that seems odd. You don't know that most Division I colleges have all the sports? No, that they would use the same name for all of them. But I guess, yeah, that makes sense.

It makes sense. I don't follow sports ball. Yeah, I don't follow sports ball. Anyway, well, then do a professional one. Okay, Cleveland Indians. That was baseball. Okay. I mean, come on. Good. Yeah, yeah, all right. What do you mean, come on? That seems like a common name. I know there's also some teams that have changed names recently. Go ahead.

Well, that's true. How about the Giants? The New York Giants NFL team? I said the Giants. Oh, I see. Now, wait a minute. Now, you can't give me a trick question. Why is it a trick question? Isn't it both football and baseball?

Where would be the baseball team located? California. Which city? I know it's California. San Francisco. I did try to trick you because there's a Giants that's more than one. I still got it. I got both sports. I just said I know the sport. I didn't say I know where. I got the sports. I'm going to give you one more. That's impressive. Thank you. I'll give you one more. I was going to say a hockey team, but they're all in Canada. The

The Rays. The Tampa Bay Rays. Our baseball team. I mean, I don't know. Are there other Rays? I don't know. Are there? I just know the baseball team. Yeah, the Tampa Bay Rays. I did want to give you one just to make sure that you weren't. Oh, no. I'm not Googling anything. There's no AI. I'm not using voice system. There's got to be a weirder one, right? Okay, one more. Diamondbacks. Now, hold on a second. That's a baseball team, right? They are. Arizona? You know where they are. Yeah, there you go. Listen.

By the way, yesterday they played the Tampa Bay Rays. So just want you to know. I will say I did watch the Apple Vision Pro Yankee Stadium immersive video. Did you see that? No. It was pretty cool. And I think they've had a number of immersive sports related videos. Like they had the Super Bowl last year, like the recap of that. They had the soccer one. And now they have the Yankee Stadium one.

I always find those immersive videos to be compelling and enjoyable. And I always think, man,

If you could watch a whole sports game with that... Because they even switched... There was one view from the stands, and there was a couple fans turning around and talking to each other, and somebody with a New York accent was like, oh yeah, but that's not a good New York accent. I didn't know what to say. I don't know enough sports terminology. But anyway, you could feel like you're in the stands, and then it went down to the field. There was in the dugout, there was a number of shots, and the team is just...

around you and you're like in the dugout with them. That seemed very compelling. It seemed like if you could watch full games that way, people would love it. So maybe there's a feature there. I don't know. I think so. Maybe you should watch it. It's, it's a, it's a good one. Have you watched any recent immersive ones like the, uh, the climbing guy or the ice?

No, because again, I don't really use my vision pro for vision pro things, entertainmenty things. Yeah. Well, not that I use them for like, I'll either use my Mac mirrored into it or actually really what I usually do is I usually have the Mac mirrored into it and then have like three or four vision pro native windows open. Okay. All right. Let's let me try and speed through a couple things here. Unfortunately, ads, ads have come to Instagram. I,

Adam Masseri announced yesterday that ads are rolling out more broadly on threads today. Our goal is still for them to enhance your overall experience. Jason, they're enhancing the threads experience. We're closely monitoring and we'll continue listening to your feedback as we scale. Right under that is apparently a creator who has not been paid, which is an unfortunate first reply for their Instagram and threads. But Jason, I don't know. Has ads ever enhanced your overall experience to anything?

uh the only way that ads enhance an experience is it means that they don't send you like a bill they don't charge a credit card for using the service fair fair it did not enhance the current threads experience because that already did not have ads so right yeah if you take something that doesn't suck and you make it suck a little bit you did not enhance there was no no enhancement there so yeah ads uh finally come to threads we figured that would be coming for a long time

Yeah. Oh, I finally got my Instagram account back. I don't know if I said it on the show. You said that last week. Did I say it on the show? Okay. Yeah. It's very happy. Yeah. It's great. Wonderful. Anyway, speaking of one other Instagram news, the Edits app, which is the CapCut competitor Instagram launched or announced months ago, is finally available for everyone. You can download it for free. You can get it on the iPhone or Android. You can download your iPad too, even though it's just an iPhone app blown up.

But turns out it's actually pretty good. I downloaded it. I tried editing a little bit. It is a good editor on mobile. Not as many features as CapCut, which is TikTok's editor. It is literally the video editor from TikTok in a separate app, also owned by ByteDance. But the edits app, it's free. You can try it out.

They have some templates or like, you know, the trending things. But if you're, if you are someone who wanted to make short form video or someone, you know, and they didn't know what app to use, this is a pretty good one. The edits app.

Have you tried it? No, I actually tried to download it on Sunday and it was not available. And so I need to download it. But cause I, I mean, CapCut is great. Like it is, it is great. And it's actually really good on the Mac too, to be honest. It's a good Mac app. I know a lot of people say that. I will say I, every once in a while I'll make a short form video and I would always struggle with like, let me bring this into final cut and do it. And when I went for the iPhone 16 E launch, uh,

I was, uh, I went to the Apple store and I got a review unit there, but I was like, let me make a short, let me actually try CapCut because I'm here sitting in a mall. I really don't want to break out Final Cut. Let me just try the CapCut app. And I had to go back to my boys who use CapCut to make their own videos. And I was like,

You guys are right. CapCut is actually a great video editor for the iPhone. And it's easy to use. The captions, everything, it's a very good app. And so edits is also very good, though. And so if you didn't want to use ByteDance's product, you should try it. Edits is good. Yeah, and the thing that CapCut got right, and I'll be interested to see, I'm downloading edits right now, is that...

All of the things that you're like, wouldn't it be nice if I could do this? CapCut just knows what those things are and makes it very easy to do that. Right, because they are very motivated for you to create vertical video content. Yeah.

make more video and yeah, make it shareable. And the only thing I don't like, yeah. The only thing I don't like about it is that I have to always remember that it automatically ends as an end card that says CapCut on it. And I have to delete it. You have to delete it, but you can't, but you can delete it. That's, you know, yeah, that's true. And Instagram, you can download, uh, or in the edits app, you can download the video without a watermark so you can repost it on other platforms. So yeah, kudos for that. You know, there's that. All right. The Google case, Google was in a DOJ and FTC case and they lost both.

It's not a good day for Google. So they lost the DOJ case a while ago. Last week. That was the case. No, no, no, no. The DOJ case, they lost a while ago. And the remedies trial has just begun for that. Then there was a second case. So that case was about its search dominance. And it's essentially, that's the one where the government is proposing that

that they should have to sell off Chrome. Right. Okay. So that as a solution to that, which is complicated, but that's the one. Then they just last week lost the FTC case, which is about Google's ad stack. And it basically it's, that's all of its non search engine ads. So these are the ads that are on websites. These are the ads that basically pay for the open web, by the way. Right. Like these, this is a very small percentage of Google's

I think it's like 10% and it's a decreasing percentage of its overall revenue because it makes most of its money from search ads because the search ad business is the single best business ever created in the history of all things. Because like, if you want to target ads at people, the,

The single best business model is the people just tell you what they're looking for and someone will pay you to show it to them. You can have zero data on someone and they can search for best. You don't. Yeah, that's the thing. Like the other news that happened this week is that Google said, yeah, that thing where we said we promised we were going to deprecate third party cookies. We're not going to do that anymore.

because uh we uh well everyone thinks well that's because google's tracking you google doesn't have to then they are but they don't have to because literally you just tell them what you want and then they just show you those links and sometimes people pay for some of those links exactly so that one that one is essentially google owns the technology used by advertisers to buy ads

to host those ads on their sites and then the exchange in between, right? That's essentially the way, it's not exactly the way it works, but they own all pieces of the stack. So they have, the judge just said they have a monopoly on two of the three. And I'm not going to tell you which the difference is. So there will be a further, uh,

Remedies phase in that as well. So the current remedies phase, which was the DOJ case that is now in remedy, the three things they are looking to change, prevent Google from striking deals for prime search engine placement is number one, which would. So that's the Safari. That would significantly affect Apple and the 20, $20 billion a year, right? Right.

That's basically what we... $20 billion a year that Google pays Apple. It's got to be more by now, but yeah. That's what it was when the trial was happening. That's what Google pays Apple to be the default search engine in Safari on your iPhone. Number two, requiring Google to divest Chrome. So having to sell the Chrome browser, which I think would also be a significant hit because they do collect a lot of information on everyone that uses Chrome and it's the biggest browser in the world.

Well, and the reason that I wrote about this this morning, but the reason that this is a big deal is that Google created Chrome so that it would not be, its search engine would not be at the mercy of like- Browsers. You know, other browsers, right? They wanted to own that form of distribution to protect the search engine. Whether it's the default or not, you could just imagine a scenario where someone like Apple, who has a browser, could be like-

nah, we don't like what you're doing, so we're just going to make it hard for people to get to Google, right? It's the same that happens. If you use Edge, it's real hard to get Google set as your default. It's like buried four levels deep, right? You really want to.

and then it's like every 15th time you open the browser it's like oh there was something that happened and we had to reset your defaults like this has literally happened to me bing just just pops up again hey it's like how did bing get back in the door i swear i locked that door anyway and uh number three uh that google they might force google to license its search data to competitors

Now, obviously, Google argues these remedies would unfairly benefit competitors and harm innovation, quote unquote. But the DOJ contends that Google's dominance hinders competition and requires intervention. And then for divesting Chrome, several people have come out of the woodwork saying, I'll buy Chrome. One of them being Perplexity, which you talked about earlier, which doesn't have the money and is not even, they don't even have revenue, profit. I don't even know. They're not profitable. That's for sure.

But also Sam Altman, which you wrote about, was like, you know what? I'll buy Chrome. Let's do it. I mean, OpenAI is the most logical company to do this, right? And he actually testified in court that it's like... Well, no, he didn't. I'm sorry. It wasn't Sam Altman, but it was someone from OpenAI. It was their head of chat GPT or whatever. He's like, yeah, I mean, he was literally asked by the prosecutors if they'd be interested. Like, yeah, we would buy it. So would probably a lot of people. Well, of course, everyone would want to... Yeah.

anybody who could would be seriously interested in buying chrome i'm sure meta would love to buy chrome like are you kidding me there's no way that they would allow that to happen but this is weird because if you think about this the doj is gonna wants to force google to sell chrome but then the question is to who and all of the people who are capable of buying chrome are probably not people that they would want to own it right because does the does the government really want

open ai which is literally i mean they someday they're going to be a two trillion dollar company they will be right up there with meta face you know microsoft apple amazon all these companies they're going to google they're going to be that big someday do you really want to give them control of the browser also do you really want it to be that easy for them to scrape the things that you're interested in just feed them into the models it's like oh you won't let us just go out and scrape the web what if we just watch what people do when they're on it hold it i don't know

There's that, but also the DOJ's point is to improve competition and not hinder it.

OpenAI has its own search product, search in ChatGPT, which you have said you use. I've talked to many people in the last week who increasingly use ChatGPT search. You would basically, again, combining two big search products, OpenAI's ChatGPT and then Google Chrome. Well, I guess it wouldn't be search. It would just be the browser. But you're giving OpenAI the biggest front door where they can just set ChatGPT as the default search engine in the most popular browser in the world.

And now a bunch more people are using it. And the homepage could be set to chat.com. Like there's a bunch of anti-competitive behavior there. Yeah. Well, and you know, I don't know what the biggest irony of the whole thing is. What is it? Search GPT, which is ChatGPT's search engine. It just uses Bing. Really? It uses Bing's real-time index. Yeah. I mean, think about it. How... There's... It takes a very long time to build a search engine. Well, I thought they scraped the internet. So I figured they would just...

So there's a difference between vacuuming up all the content on the internet to feed it into an LLM and creating an index in real time of, because think about it. Every single time I post an article, the search engines know about it. Right.

And they're crawling everything. Yes, exactly. So Bing does license its garbage search results. Lots of people are happy to pay for it. And ChatGPT is one of them. Interesting. The tangled web we weave. They should sell. Who should buy Chrome, Jason? I think the DOJ should force Google to sell Chrome to some like

Dell. Dell. I think you should add to the poll which member benefits we should buy Chrome. Should be one of them. We buy Chrome? Primary Technology buys Chrome? Yeah, clearly. And then the homepage for everyone in the world when they open Chrome is just Primary Tech. Primary Tech, yeah. I don't know how we're going to make this into a business, but I definitely think we should. We need a couple investors. Listen, if Sam Altman can tweet and have a dump truck of money show up at his door, I mean, we could probably do that, right?

We need a couple of investors. What he means is we need 4 billion paying members and then we could afford Chrome. That's it. No problem. No problem. It's only half of the population of the earth. I mean, that's a pretty successful podcast right there. The most successful, actually. Speaking of lots of money, though, Apple got fined and has to pay a bunch of money in the EU because the EU has ruled that they... What is the word? They went against the Digital Markets Act. They...

Anyway. Basically, let me help you out here. No, I know what they did. They did the anti-steering thing. They basically, the European Union found that they did not allow developers or the anti-steering practices and Apple imposes on developers is not okay with the Digital Markets Act. So Apple has to pay a fine for that. Okay.

I couldn't figure it out. So basically... I couldn't figure out the word. I'm going to say some different words for you. Yeah, say some different words, yeah. The EU required Apple to allow developers to link out in their apps to their own way of making payments and stuff. And Apple sort of complied, but this is that malicious compliance thing. So the EU is basically like, no, no, no, that's not what we meant.

And they find them. And here's the thing. This is actually a ridiculously small amount of money that they find them. Because remember, they could find them up to, what is it, 10% of their global revenue. And I think Apple's global revenue is somewhere in the neighborhood of $400 billion on an annual basis. Somewhere like in that neighborhood. Yeah.

don't quote me, but it's a lot of money. And so this is basically money that Tim Cook will find when he moves his desk so they can vacuum next week or whatever. Like this is not an amount of money that means anything to Apple, right? They put more money in the iPhones that they were airlifting over because they were worried about the tariffs. Okay. And the story here is basically that a lot of...

The EU had to make a point. Right. But the EU is also very uncertain right now about how much of a point it can make because what they don't want to do is be like, oh, we charged your company $10 billion and all of a sudden the White House is like, and we will add a 350% tariff to all of the beats that you wanted to import or whatever. Not the headphone beats. The food. So. E-E-E-T-S. Yeah. What I think, let me know about this. So the European Commission ordered Apple to,

to remove the technical and commercial restrictions on steering. So they want Apple to change the restrictions in the apps and for developers. Otherwise, it's going to be non-compliant in the future. Do you think Apple will change anything or will just pay this fine whenever it comes up?

I think Apple's lawyers are a lot smarter than the use lawyers. And so Apple will make a change that barely that, that sort of does the, they're going to be, it's like, we will do exactly the thing that you say precisely in the words based on our interpretation of it. But really what they want is for Apple to just not have any restrictions on what developers can do. They, they want Apple to host the platform, meaning the app store, uh,

and developers to be able to sell into that in any way that they want to and link back in any way they want to. And there's 0% chance that Apple's going to do that. I mean, they already allowed sideloading. Yeah. Right? There is an alternative to do that. That is true. The fine was 500 million euro, 570 US dollars, if you want. 570 million US dollars. Yeah, million US dollars.

Our last couple stories, Tim Cook, Senator Elizabeth Warren sent a letter to Tim Cook requesting, how did you get around this tariff thing? Basically wanting to know how do they go about this exemption?

And Senator Elizabeth Warren thinks that the million dollar donation that Tim Cook made to the Trump administration's campaign and maybe the nature of like being at the inauguration, other things might have had to do with this tariff thing. And so she wants to know what the deal is.

I, I don't know. I mean, I don't think Tim Cook is required to say anything about that. I mean, there's no, I mean, this is just, this was just Tim Cook earning his paycheck. Right. Right. This is the thing that this is why Tim Cook is still CEO. Right. Right. If he, if, if someone else had been elected president, like, I don't mean like if Kamala Harris had, but I'm just saying if in a different alternate timeline, if,

we would be hearing about how john turnus is taking over in a year and a half or whatever but like he cannot retire now right until trump is no longer president this is the like this is the only thing this is why like what was it last week we were talking about where tim cook doesn't want his subordinates to bring him conflicts he's like do you understand i have to call the president every day i don't have time for your petty fights about siri like just just cancel it i don't care i don't know nothing will probably come of that but

Last thing, and then we get to personal tech. I like the personal tech you put in there. The Apple Watch's 10th birthday. Is that today, the 24th? Yeah, today. Oh, yeah. Well, let's talk about that. The last thing I do want to mention, Blue Sky, which I feel like has been gaining traction. I've been seeing more and more activity on Blue Sky. It's a different kind of activity than you see on Threads and X, but it's good. And I like it over there. I also love the Croissant app that I use to post to Blue Sky, Mastathon, and Threads.

all simultaneously. And I can even put alt text for accessibility and it sends it to all those platforms. So croissant app, just throwing that out there, but blue sky is going to launch blue check verification. So just like X has, although X again, you could pay for the blue check meta Instagram and threads. You can also pay for the blue check.

But this blue check is going to be something they bestow onto people. This is not something, there's no application process. You can't buy it. They're just going to preemptively verify accounts as

significant or whatever. And listen, I don't know what it is. I don't know what's broken inside of me. I don't know the psychology of this, but I want a blue check. I want it. I remember I'm blue sky. I just want blue. I just want blue checks everywhere. I don't know. I just feel like I like the blue check. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. This was back when we first like started getting to know each other talking. I was on Twitter because it was Twitter at the time.

and I was hosting the Apple Insider Podcast. And I had let my Twitter be dormant for a while, and then I started it up again when I started doing the Apple Insider Podcast because it was a big part of the audience on there. And I wanted the blue check.

And they finally opened up like that for a long time. Twitter would just blue check people and there was no way to proactively request it or apply for it. And then I remember whenever I was hosting, it might've been 2021. They actually opened up the applications. You could say you can apply for the blue check to be verified, but you needed to supply links or resources that show you are like an important person. Notable. You'd be notable. Notable. Notable is the word.

And the links that I used that I think helped me get verified were Inc.com because you had written several articles that mentioned my name. And yeah, that got me verified. And I think you can still see like if you go on X, if you go to our profile, even if someone pays for the blue check, you can tap on a

accounts blue check and it will say verified since and yeah I was right 2021 that I've been verified since June 2021 and it was because I did that application process and I think those articles and of course Apple Insider articles I had a few of them with my byline and so that that helped the verification so I don't know it's a valid it's a silly validation thing I did it then now it matters less because

You can just buy the blue check on all these platforms, but you can't buy it on blue sky. So what is it like artificial scarcity? Like, because you can't buy it now, I want it on blue sky.

I don't know. I will say about this. So I did, I had a blue check for a long time and then Elon took it away from me and I was not one of the people that he, they gave it back to. Like there were some people like Ben Thompson, John Gruber, they gave them back the checks. Um, that even if they didn't pay for it, I, and I, I just like, I'm principal, I'm not going to pay for it. I didn't pay for it the first time.

And I also like have a blue check on, on Instagram and Facebook. And I don't know why, because I don't have that many Instagram followers. Like I really don't have that many Instagram followers at all, but I'm verified on Instagram and every, so every so often I go into my,

My daughters is high school and teach in the journalism class. And literally the only thing they care about is your dad is verified on Instagram. Really? Like do they know you can buy it now? It is my only, I don't know if they know that or not. I did not buy it, but I just, I think it's because I'm listed as a journalist on there, but I think it's, it's just like, they just think that they're like,

The number of times, like my freshman daughter's friends will follow me on Instagram. Usually because I'll post pictures of like... Soccer. I'll post a picture from something that's going on. Right. And so they'll start following me and then she'll come home and she's like, yeah, so-and-so was like, your dad's verified. Yeah. I mean, so you can be a great boyfriend.

That's what all high schoolers sound like to me. You're verified. Your dad is verified on Instagram. They all sound like, what's his name? Napoleon Dynamite. Oh, yeah, yeah. Your dad's verified. I think I talked about this before, but I talked to, there was a Great American Teach-In a couple months ago where people can go in and talk about their jobs or whatever, and I was invited by a friend, and I talked about doing YouTube stuff, and when I talk about how I have 100K subscribers,

elementary school kids lost their mind that I had a hundred K subscribers. There was one, I talked to several classes. One of them was like third, fourth, fifth graders, somewhere around there. And there was a button, like one of them, listen, one of them asked for my autograph. And I was like,

I mean, I'll sign a piece of paper. This means nothing. Like I didn't say it means nothing, but I was like, I don't think this is like, it's not that big of a deal. You can't deposit this. It's not a check. You're not going to sell this on eBay. But one per one of the students asked for it. And then like 10 or 12 were like, sign this, sign this. I was like, my signature also looks like garbage. I don't know. I'm sorry. But anyway. Well, it was funny because I'm standing there and I was talking about how,

They asked about how, what's the most popular thing you've ever written? And it's still to this day, an article I wrote about Lego and it's, I don't know, four and a half million readers or something like that by this point. And the kids are like, okay, they probably don't have much context for what that really means. But then you put up a slide and it's like, you're verified on Instagram? Yeah.

4 million readers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, blue check. I'm like, I have 600 followers on Instagram and you're impressed because there's a blue check next to my name, but there's a four, I had four and a half million people read an article I wrote about Lego and you're like, okay.

I will say one other check I'm proud of is YouTube because when you reach 100K, you do get the check next to your name and you get to verify your account. And so, yeah, I enjoy that. Well, and I realize that the reason is because these people all follow Instagram influencers and TikTok influencers who all have millions of followers. So four and a half million readers doesn't seem like that. Yeah, exactly. All right, personal tech. I love that you put this in here.

The original Apple Watch, 10 years old. I just found, I don't know if you knew this, I wrote the review for Apple Insider for the original Apple Watch. I did not know that. This will be the last link in the show notes. On parchment paper. Look at this. My name. This is April. Look at that. I helped you get verified. Okay.

It probably did. So it launched the 24th. Is that right? Like 24th was. Well, and today is the 24th. Today is the 24th as we record. This review is the 29th because I did give it a few days. Look at that. Look at that. Look at that. Milanese loop. It looks like an Apple watch. Stainless steel, original Apple watch with the box that you used to get when you got like the fancy ones. Oh, man.

I loved it. I was working at the travel company at the time and all these pictures of the Apple watch are on my desk at the travel company. Nice. Cause it was nothing at home looked like picture worthy. Look at that macro. I use a real camera for that picture, Jason. I think it was the Nikon D 7,000. I use for that. It's not a great camera, but it was the one I had at the time. It's what I had. Look at this watch. Oh my goodness. I'm look at that bezel. Look at that bezel with the screen. Oh my goodness.

The original Apple Watch, it's special to me not only because I got to write this review. This was like the first big product review I ever did. But it was also the first launch day device I got for Apple. I didn't get the original iPhone. I didn't get the original iPad at launch. This was the first one I got on launch day. And I was very excited. And yeah, I don't know. Did you have the original original? No. So I was looking because I have my...

the first Apple watch ever, but I couldn't, I can't find it, but it was a series four. Okay. It was the first one I ever bought. And then I, then I had a series six, which I could find. Then I bought a series seven because there was actually a, I don't remember what the big thing was besides the center. It was a faster screen or faster charging and larger screen. I think.

it's when the bezel got i think it was i think that was a six actually because i think that's why i got the six compared to the four okay i think but the seven has like the the blood oxygen sensor and some other stuff right and so i actually still wear the series seven to sleep okay yeah that's why i wear it's nice and it's honestly the series seven is probably my favorite apple watch i've ever owned i like you have the 10 or did you try this

Now, I have a review unit still of the 10. You like the 7 better than the 10? So here's my... I'm tainted by the fact that I really, really like the stainless steel Apple Watches. And they never send you that as a review.

right so it's just the it's like the polished black aluminum and it's okay but to me that looks more like a gadget right and i just i really like the stainless steel ones so the all three of them were for the six in the seven were all stainless and then now i have the ultra two which is obviously titanium but and it's fine but man that series seven stainless steel was always my go-to until

the titanium came out and I've been titanium since and now I have the Ultra. I still regret to this day not getting the Series 5 ceramic. I never got the ceramic. It was the only model they made with ceramic. I don't know if they'll ever do it again.

And, you know, it would have just been a nice thing to look at. It was very expensive at the time, and I think that's why I didn't get it. It was like over $1,000 for the ceramic version, but it looks so cool. And I don't know. Maybe BasicAppleGuy, maybe he uses ceramics still. But anyway, Apple, what do we think? Apple, what is your... I want to know your favorite...

Not the best one you've ever had, but what is your favorite Apple Watch you had that you bought? Favorite Apple Watch. Because I already said mine was the Series 7. Like, that's... I love that thing. And I've actually been tempted several times to go in and pay the $79 to have them replace the battery. They'll do it on that older device? Mm-hmm. It's only like 81% battery health or whatever. That's why I just wear it to sleep in. Oh, bad. No. That...

You know, I really do love the Ultra. I feel like the Ultra 1 versus Ultra 2, like, negligible difference. But the Ultra battery life just became so, like, you never have to think about it. I think that was worth it. Like, that felt like, okay, now the Apple Watch can just be a thing you wear. And, yeah, great. But now that I'm thinking about it,

This is going to be funny, but the Apple watch series seven, I remember it was the first one that they said was like dustproof or something. And I'm trying to find pictures of it, but it was, again, I did the video review for Apple insider for the series seven. And I was really happy with the, of the pictures I took of the watch. And I just, I can't find it, but yeah,

Anyway, yeah, I do think the Series 7, for some reason, it was like the perfect balance with the screen size and the speed and the larger faces. And I had a stainless steel one. And that was very nice. I think I might agree with you. I think the Series 7 was chef's kiss. I guess the Series 6 also had blood oxygen. I'm trying to think what would have been the reason for that.

That I bought the Series 7 because I normally wouldn't have. No, it was a bigger. Okay. I just, I actually wrote the review for the Series 7 too for Apple Insider. So here, this was my review of the Series 7 and it was the, it was an increase in screen size because it was increasing the size from Series 6 to Series 7. It comes in a 41 and 45 millimeter, one millimeter larger than the previous Apple Watch Series 6.

Also had the speaker difference there. It was supposedly a brighter display. Series 7 was 70% brighter than Series 6. Was it the first always-on display? No, that was 5. Series 5, yeah. But the 7 was the first one to have a full QWERTY keyboard if you wanted to type or swipe type. It was the first one to do it. This was the picture I was looking for. I'll put this article in the show notes too. This picture I took with the braided solo loop, I don't know if it was the first year they had those kinds of loops, but

But the contour face was new with the 7 because of that slightly larger screen, edge-to-edge screen. And this was one of my favorite photos I ever took of the Apple Watch. That's a nice photo, right? That's good. I like that. I like that face, that watch face. The brightness, I don't know why I did that. Why did I get the Series 6? Also, the modular duo was new for the 7. You couldn't get that on the Series 6. Yeah, it was definitely for that watch. See, I also went to these sand dunes.

And, uh, in for this review, cause again, I was testing like the dust resistance, which was new on the series seven. And I remember I would throw it in like the sand, like this is literally a picture of me throwing it in the sand. And after I did that a bunch of, it was the last thing I did. Cause I was like, I don't know if I'm going to ruin this watch by doing it. Once I threw in a bunch of sand, the digital crown couldn't, it like didn't spin.

And I was like, oh my goodness, I just busted this. So I brought it home, ran it under the faucet, and I kept pushing the digital crown. Eventually, I pushed it through and knocked out whatever grain was there and kept spinning, kept spinning. Digital crown was perfect. No problem. I think one of my kids actually still has it to this day. I think I passed it down. They might have it. Battery life is terrible, but they still have it. That's a good one.

Any other fond Apple Watch memories? That's all I got. I like the Ultra 2. I have the Ultra 2. I just checked and its battery life is at 95%, which is discouraging to me. But I do wear it all the time. But I think I liked the form factor of the...

Apple, the original, like the series Apple watch. That's how Apple refers to the series watches versus the ultra. Um, and I do, I just, I really liked that stainless steel. Nice. 96%, 96% battery health for me. It's not bad. Cause I didn't buy the, like last this past September, I didn't buy another one. No, this is, this is an original two original two. It's one and a half years old. And, uh, I will probably upgrade to whatever the three is this year.

I'm going to find a refurbished seven. All right. We're going to, what are we recording? We don't have a bonus topic. We have a couple in here, but I don't know. I don't know what our bonus topic should be. I wish our list that we see if we leave, if we live streamed, we could ask our listeners right now what they would want to hear.

As a bonus. That should be a member benefit. We should live stream the show. We should not live stream the show. We could live stream the show, Jason. We don't, we like, I do no editing. So much pressure. Basically, when people. So much, so much pressure. I'm going to have to cut out all your yelling that you, when you yell at me in between segments, but that's, you know. That's true. I appreciate that.

We're going to figure out a bonus topic. And here's what you do. If you can get an ad-free version of the show, you get access to all the back catalog of bonus episodes and the one we're about to record, which you'll see the title in the thing. But there's going to be more benefits soon. So if you could take that poll, it'll be the first link in the show notes. Let us know what member benefits would motivate you to sign up. And also...

Just sign up now. Get the ad-free bonus episodes. Give us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts if you could. Maybe we can get up to a five-star rating once again here in Apple Podcasts. And of course, you can watch the show at youtube.com slash at primary tech show. That link's in the show notes as well. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Catch you next time.