AI Summit Begins in Paris - DTNSB - 4953
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This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, February 10th, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, follow up some of the context of these crazy stories, and try to help each other understand. Today, Bodie Grimm talks to us about cheap EVs around the world and more from your emails. Oh me, I'm Tom Merritt. And I'm Rob Dunwood. Let's start with what you need to know with The Big Story.

It's not the Super Bowl. This is a tech show. The Artificial Intelligence Action Summit, the Super Bowl of artificial intelligence governmental talk, is being held in Paris this week. It is the third international summit to discuss strategy toward regulating AI after similar summits took place first in the UK and then in South Korea. Ahead of the summit, French President Emmanuel Macron announced France's

has organized private investments totaling 109 billion euros to be used mostly for data centers to be used by AI companies. Now,

This isn't France spending government money. This is France kind of helping bring it all together. Investments are going to come from Canadian, UAE and U.S. investment funds, as well as French companies like Orange and Thales. President Macron said it was equivalent per capita to what the United States announced would be invested in OpenAI and SoftBank's Project Stargate.

Separately, France's Mistral, an AI company, announced a cluster to be built for training AI in France. That's not part of the private investments that Macron announced. Mistral also announced a partnership with Germany's Helsing to create computer vision tools for the military.

Helsing already develops software for unmanned aerial vehicles to be used by militaries, so this would be putting some computer vision from Mistral in use on those. France also announced it would commit one gigawatt of its nuclear power to be used for training data models, with the first 250 megawatts going online by the end of 2026. You may not realize this if you're not in France or nearby France, but the majority of France's power comes from nuclear.

and the country generates more power than it uses, usually just sells it to its neighbors. The president said France exported 90 terawatt hours of electricity in 2024. The president also posted a montage of himself being inserted into popular videos by generative models, something which has become somewhat of a meme in France over the past few months.

The video montage, which he posted on Instagram X and TikTok, included depictions of the president in a 1980s disco video and the TV show MacGyver, among other things. The video was being used to promote the summit. At the actual summit, Stanford scientist and founder of 3D Worldbuilder World Labs, Fei-Fei Li, gave the opening speech.

At this civilizational moment, how can we work together to govern AI in a way that preserves the astonishing potential in a rational, practical, and responsible way? She called for more open source investment to discourage tech from being concentrated into too few companies. And she also said that regulation should be based on science, not science fiction.

This seems to be getting more attention, Rob, than the first two summits did, which I think were thought to be a little bit of government talk into itself. Maybe it's just because Macron knows better how to get things into the media. I don't know.

There's probably that very good media wise. The other thing too, is that I think that IRF is starting to realize that this AI thing is not going anywhere. It is really big. I've heard some people say it's as big as the internet. I'm not going to say that because the internet is required for AI to happen. You cannot have AI without the internet, but it might be as big as the worldwide web on the internet when it's all said and done. I mean, it's massive.

It's massive as far as how many people are using it, governments getting into it, and then just how fast it's growing. So I don't think we're being hyperbolic or pedantic to say that this is the biggest thing in tech that we've seen since probably the World Wide Web was invented.

- Yeah, this is one of those things that I hear people say AI is overhyped and they're right. It is overhyped. It is also underhyped. It can be both of those things. There are a lot of companies out there trying to sell AI capabilities that really aren't there yet, but there's also a lot of capabilities that I don't think we've taken advantage of yet and how to deal with that, how to make sure that we make the best use of that in a way that's productive,

It avoids the harms is what these kind of big conversations are about. And I like what you're saying, which is maybe when this first started, people were like, I don't know if this is real. But at this point, even if there's a lot of hype around it, there's also something real. Yeah, you got to pay attention to the hype. Yeah. In this case, you should maybe not believe the hype, but pay attention to the hype. That is a great song by Public Enemy. Don't believe the hype. But yeah, but pay attention to it. Definitely pay attention to it.

DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to Philip Less, Howard Yermes, John Atwood, and our new patrons, Joe, Momo, Keith, Chris, and Patrick. Ooh, a good bunch of new patrons. Thank you all for being with us. Picture this. You're in the garage, hands covered in grease, just finished up tuning your engine with a part you found on eBay, and you realize, you know what?

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I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. If you wear glasses, you know how hard it is to find the perfect pair. But step into a Warby Parker store and you'll see it doesn't have to be. Not only will you find a great selection of frames, you'll also meet helpful advisors and friendly optometrists. Yep, not only that,

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Sony's PlayStation Network went out for a lot of users on February 7th. That's this past Saturday. For about 20 hours, Sony only said it was due to an operational issue. It was the longest PlayStation Network outage since 2011. To make it up to users, Sony is giving its PlayStation Plus subscribers an extra five days of service at no additional charge as an apology.

i think that also covers the october outage as well which was shorter uh but they're like okay we know you're upset uh here let's give you many more days of service than than you were out because people get frustrated when they want to go play their game and they can't uh if i still was a playstation user i know i would be upset if i couldn't play for for hours i mean this was down for a while and big games too call of duty and all that stuff right

The New York Times reports that fitness influencer Anna Espinel has started a trend for wearing her Apple Watch on her ankle. The trend might be more posting videos of wearing the Apple Watch on the ankle than the actual wearing. Apparently she wanted to solve the problem of the fitness app disconnecting during workouts and was thinking, well, I got small wrists, maybe that's the problem. So tried wearing it on her ankle, went looking to see if anybody else did this for tips or ideas or whether it worked.

And it turned out many people wear their fitness trinkers on their ankles. 9to5Mac had a good roundup of all of this. Some say it gives them more accurate step counts. Others find it just more comfortable, especially if you have some kind of skin condition that maybe gets a little itchy or you get a rash on your wrist. And some medical professionals actually do it because there are hygiene rules that prevent them from wearing it on their wrists, but it's okay to wear it on their ankles, so at least they get their steps.

I would have to imagine that we are not far from actual straps made for your ankle. If those don't already exist, those will probably want to be coming out relatively soon because folks are saying that this is not a bad idea and it works in certain cases. Somebody is going to figure out how to make a little bit of money off of that. Do a quick search on Amazon and Teemu and let us know if you find this because I think you're right. Somebody's got to already be doing that.

Reuters sources say OpenAI is finalizing the design for its first in-house chip in the next few months, after which it will send it to TSMC in Taiwan for fabrication. This first fab is called a tape-out and can take six months and cost tens of millions of dollars. If Reuters sources are right, it would mean OpenAI could meet its goal of mass production of its own chips by the end of 2026. Alphabet, Amazon, and Meta all design their own data center chips as well, but have hundreds of engineers. We should note that those big tech companies also still buy NVIDIA chips

Quite a few of them. Yeah, no, I don't think this is going to stop OpenAI from buying NVIDIA chips or even put a big dent in their orders, but it gives them some leverage, right? When they're talking about pricing, they can say, well, we do make some of our own chips. Now, right now, these are a very small amount of chips. Like you said, it's not going to be there until 2026. But again, in the discussion, they can say, well, if you give us a break,

We're not going to pursue this as aggressively, but we do have an option. And I think that's kind of what Alphabet, Amazon and Meta do as well. Definitely a leverage, but also a tech reference, because if one of those companies actually really gets it right with their own stuff, they can then go to NVIDIA and say, hey, we would like you to do it like this. Just do it at scale the way that you guys are really good at. No, that's a good point, too.

Berlin-based developer Sebastian Vogelsang's app Flashes, an Instagram competitor that uses the federated app protocol, is now available in beta. The app protocol is the same one used and developed by Blue Sky, and in fact, Flashes interacts with Blue Sky posts. You can get your Blue Sky posts in Flashes, but...

they will be filtered so you're just seeing photos and videos of the people you follow. You could also post up to four photos in one post or one video directly through flashes and then those will appear on Blue Sky as well. It's available through Apple's Test Flight Developer Program for iOS. There were some tech issues at launch and they're working those out with Apple.

It also isn't the only one pursuing this. Pink Sky and Skygram, according to TechCrunch, are a couple of other Instagram-like competitors that are also being built to work with Blue Sky. Yeah, it's just the nature of the business now. You're going to see a lot of things that are going to want to go to, in this case, is working on top of Blue Sky, things that are going to be working with their protocol. There may be independent applications, but you're going to see more of this because it is an open source platform that people are using here.

Yeah, I find it interesting that this is really focused on being an Instagram-like competitor versus TikTok, which is in a little more trouble and has a few more people that are interested. But I also, I always thought of Blue Sky as like, oh, I guess we'll get a lot of different Blue Sky clients the way we do with Mastodon. And one of the first things we're seeing is a lot of photo clients using this protocol. So

I don't know if this means maybe Blue Sky is seeing its future as being a little more photo-centric than the activity pub protocol-based things like Mastodon. That's interesting to watch.

i also wonder is some of these things were they being created before we heard about tick tock now we've known about tick tock since april but it really has become a thing in the last month since you know really in the last few weeks since there is technically a band now so i wonder if a lot of this was work that was already happening on blue sky it was you're right that's a that's a real good point and photos a little easier to make features around uh videos get a little more complicated you know just because of the nature of the beast

Discord announced a new feature called Ignore. It hides messages, DMs, server notifications, profiles, and activity from a user without alerting them. DMs from an ignored account appear in the inbox with a grayed-out name. You would also get an alert if an ignored person is in or is about to join a chat.

Valve implemented a new rule that does not allow games in its Steam store that force game players to watch in-game ads. That includes rewarding players for engaging or watching ads in a game. That is also not allowed if you want to be in the Steam store. Cross-promotion and product placement are still permitted. This does not apply to mobile, which is where I run into all of these things. It just applies to Steam, sadly.

T-Mobile announced Sunday that its customers can sign up for a free beta that lets them send text messages using Starlink satellites. That's useful for places where T-Mobile's regular service is not available. Customers from competing U.S. carriers from Verizon and AT&T can also try out the service if their existing phone supports digital SIM cards. Starting in July, the service will cost $15 a month for T-Mobile customers and $20 a month for non-T-Mobile customers. The company also plans to expand beyond text messaging to voice, picture, and other options later.

I kind of want to sign up for this because I have T-Mobile for the free period, but I don't need it. I'm not running into places right now. I guess if I travel, I'll sign up for it between now and then. I'm not a hiker or a traveler to places where they don't have a lot of cell towers. I don't know if this was something that I would ever need.

Uh, the U S did not end up removing the $800 de minimis exemption. This is one of the reasons I, I hesitate to cover people saying things are going to happen until they actually happen because, because this was, this one actually, I think did go into effect for a day or two before it was pulled. Uh,

That $800 exemption, among many other things, lets companies like Shein and Timu ship you small items without having to go through the inspections required for customs duties on more expensive shipments. That's why you can get a dollar plastic hair clip shipped from Shein, right?

However, other tariffs are coming, and the overall uncertainty has caused Shein to begin to ask some of its suppliers to set up production facilities in Vietnam. Now, Shein told Tech in Asia it doesn't plan to increase production in Vietnam, but I took that to mean like, okay, so if Tech in Asia is right that they're shifting production to Vietnam, but they don't plan to increase it, maybe they're shifting around what gets made where.

to say like, well, the things that are going to be more affected by these bigger tariffs, the 10%, 25% tariffs, we'll put those in Vietnam to avoid those while the dollar plastic hair clip can still come out of mainland China.

Yeah, it seems like a almost like a game of just shifting things around because like, OK, well, we don't want to get this big tariff. Let's move it to this country to where we don't have that big tariff. We don't really need to increase there. But if it's going to cost us less or cost our customers less to buy, if that's where it's coming from, then let's do that. That seems like that's a.

Like that's a good idea from from teaming standpoint. But this this is big news. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that people buy that cost less than eight hundred dollars off of these platforms. And this change is really going to wreak havoc on them, I think.

Yeah, we could go down a whole rabbit hole with this stuff. But it is interesting to see that one of the side effects from tariffs and tariff uncertainty could be a more diverse supply chain. Problem is supply chain can't move fast. It takes a while to move this stuff. But we've already seen people wanting to diversify the supply chain for other reasons, just avoiding natural disasters or things like happened with COVID where you've got everything coming out of one place.

I know there's discussions about tariffs going to happen between the US and India, and India is another place besides Vietnam where manufacturers have been moving a lot of their production of consumer electronics and online shopping and all of that. So yeah, it's definitely going to change some of that landscape. And I can't help but think it's going to raise your price just because of the complexity and the moving around of stuff involved, but we'll see. We shall soon see.

Those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper in the ongoing stories and follow up. The cheapest EVs in the world are not available to the U.S. So Tom sat down with Bodie Grimm from Kilowatt Podcast to talk about what it means for the world's car market.

Bodhi, thanks for talking with me, man. Oh, thanks, Tom. I appreciate you having me on. First, let's talk about affordable EVs in the world. I know BYD gets a lot of the headlines, but there are several out there. How should we define affordable and what are some of the bigger brands there? Well, how I like to define it, it is anything sub $25,000 and just convert that to whatever currency your country happens to have. But if it's less than $25,000, I think it's affordable.

In terms of brands out there, you have, of course, BYD. You have SAC Motors, which they do the MG brand. You also have some, like if you live in Asia or Europe, you have some more affordable EVs from Hyundai and Kia and Volkswagen set to announce a $20,000 EV in Europe.

So that's kind of where I would go with that. - Yeah, and that's starting to get down into my price range. A lot of people talked about affordable EVs as being like 40,000, $50,000, which certainly are more affordable than 80 or 100,000. But yeah, when you're talking 20, $25,000, now we're talking. We just heard about a drop in Tesla sales in Europe in January, 47.7% apparently year over year. A lot of people attributing that to personal feelings about Tesla's owner.

But it could also be from other reasons. What do you think is causing that? Well, I think a lot of it's because for personal reasons. I do think that number is going to probably come back up eventually. But right now, I think there's the people are sending a message that they're not a fan of what Elon's doing. But aside from that, you also have a lot of companies like BYD,

NIO is another company that I meant to mention. They have two really affordable brands like the Firefly, which is a subcompact $20,000 vehicle. But then you have the Envo 360, which is a Model Y competitor, and that starts at $28,000 in China, and it's expected to start...

around the same place depending on tariffs in Europe as well. So if I'm in Europe and I'm like, wow, that sounds great. I didn't know I could get an EV for that cheap. Are there...

concerns? Are there something you should watch out for? Are these cheaply made? Are they quality? What's your take on that? I mean, we should all expect a $20,000 vehicle when we buy a $20,000 vehicle. But Sandy Munro of Munro & Associates, he does all these teardowns and he's kind of a legend in the automotive industry.

He thinks BOID and these other Chinese manufacturers do a pretty good job at building these vehicles. You're not going to have the top of the line leather seats and you might have some panel gaps or whatever, but you're going to get a good, reliable car for $20,000. And safe. Are they safe? That's the other question people are going to have.

You know, a lot of these vehicles are sold in Europe, and Europe is very safety conscious. So I've not had an opportunity myself to drive one of these. Bart Bouchat came on my show a couple, I guess, two years ago, and he drove an Auto and a Dolphin, I think. And he really liked the car. Not enough to buy it, but he really liked the car, and he didn't have...

too many concerns except for when you were accelerating and it was a turn. And if it was kind of a tight turn, he didn't feel safe doing that. But beyond that, I don't, I think that's maybe more of a personal thing than, than anything else.

One interesting thing, one of the big things I wanted to talk to you about was the US auto market often leads trends in the world. They are not leading this trend because not only are there not as many cheap EVs made in the US, but they are prohibiting or at least making it difficult for these EVs to come into the US market. Tell me a little bit about what's happening to keep these brands out of the US.

Well, I mean, right before the pandemic, a Chinese automaker named Byton was set to release their vehicle here in the US. It was a pretty cool vehicle. It was not affordable, but it was cool.

And, you know, the pandemic happened and they went out of business. So it's hard to say if it's a this was this was before a lot of the China news that we were getting today. You know, they're still banning like Chinese equipment and like sell companies and things like that and government offices. But it wasn't like at the consumer level.

So I don't know exactly what's keeping Chinese vehicles out of the US because Geely operates, they own Volvo and they own Polestar and both of those companies happen to be here in the US. And Geely is a Chinese company or something? Yeah, Geely is a Chinese company. Yeah. So it's not like they couldn't try. BYD has a factory or is building a factory in Mexico and they say it's to serve Latin America.

I thought, and this was under the previous administration, I thought, well, this is a really good kind of like Trojan horse. Like you build this, we have trade agreements with Mexico, you build this factory in Mexico, you start selling in Latin America, and then you, you know, kind of move over to the US. And I think that might happen eventually in a different way.

What, well, and another one of the problems is possible tariffs, tariffs that are somewhat in place, maybe they're in place, you know, it changes every day. But what do you think could happen to make it easier for companies to sell these cheaper EVs in the US? Or is it just that, you know what, somebody is just going to have to start a new company in the US? What do you think?

I think there's okay. So in China, if a foreign company wants to go into China, and they want to build an automobile, they have to partner with a Chinese company, they don't have to partner necessarily with a Chinese automaker, like like Neo or BYD, they can partner with some company that just builds cars, but they have to form some sort of joint venture.

That's similar to a lot of the tech companies have to keep it like the cloud data has to be handled by a Chinese company. That makes sense to me. Yeah, yeah. And I think India is going to go this way as well.

Unless you know the these automakers want to pay huge tariffs I think that's how they're gonna get around that but I think we could do that here in the US because President Trump Really likes the the deal, right? so if we are able to come up with some sort of solution where these Chinese companies form a joint venture with GM or Ford or I don't think Tesla is going to be a part of that but one of these other companies

automakers here in the US, and they bring the manufacturing on US soil, I think that might satisfy some of our government leaders in how they would like to see these kind of deals. -Molify them a little bit, yeah. -Yeah, it's like, yeah. I want to be careful with how I... -Yeah, sure. -I don't want to bring my opinion into anything. -Yeah, could bring a deal to the forefront. -Right.

Yeah. And you were telling me before the show that there's models for that outside of China even. Is Stellantis doing some kind of partnership like that? Yes, Stellantis and Leap Motors. I think they have a plant in Poland and then they're planning a plant in Spain. And Leap Motors is a Chinese company and they make a pretty affordable product.

EV as well. And that would, as far as I know, in tariffs and duties and all this stuff, it's kind of complicated. And I don't have a good grasp on European stuff anyway. But as far as I know, that would help them either alleviate or at least reduce those tariffs down to something more manageable.

Well, Bodhi, thanks, man, for taking the time to help us wrap our heads and understand this a little better. I really appreciate it. If folks want to find more of you talking, because like you said, we could talk about this for a lot longer. Where should they go? You can go to 918digital.com, 918digital.com, and you'll find everything that I do up there. Thanks, man. Thank you, Tom.

After we were done with that conversation a little later, Bodhi also sent me a note pointing out that GM and Honda have a partnership. GM and Hyundai have a partnership. The Ford Capri, which is built on the Volkswagen platform, is another example of a partnership. So these kind of partnerships we discussed there are not uncommon, is what he wanted to make sure people knew.

If you have feedback about anything that gets brought up on the show, get in touch with us on the socials. We are at DTNS Show. If you look for us on X or Instagram or Threads or Blue Sky or Mastodon, we're not on Flashes yet, but we kind of are through Blue Sky. You can find us at DTNS Show.

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Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom. Today, Kiwi G is helping us understand.

Kiwi G writes, soon after listening to the interview with Dr. Nikki last week on DTNS Briefing, this Ars Technica article came up in my Blue Sky feed, and hence this DTNS episode helped me understand the article. The article is about the National Institute of Health in the U.S. cutting its support to universities, and because Dr. Nikki kind of explained how all this works and what's been going on with funding and the

freezes and unfreezes and all of that, Kiwi was able to understand that. So thank you, Kiwi G, for letting us know that that helped. And I sent this along to Nikki, and of course it made her day.

big thanks to bodie grimm and kiwi g for contributing to today's show thank you for being along for daily tech news show it's made possible by patrons patreon.com dtns there's also dtns live if you want more roundtable discussions look for that on youtube and twitch or dailytechnewsshow.com talk to you tomorrow the dtns family of podcasts helping each other understand diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this broker

Enjoy a brilliant sleep experience with Soundcore from Anker. Stressed out by your partner's snoring? Having trouble falling asleep? Waking up too easily? Suffering from poor quality sleep? Now, put on Soundcore Sleep A20 earbuds. Experience unparalleled pressure-free comfort perfect for side sleepers.

Choose your favorite sound in your curated playlist. Feel your body getting lighter and lighter and enjoy a full night of peaceful sleep with the A20's long-lasting battery. Then wake up feeling fresh with a personal built-in alarm. Get the sleep you deserve with Soundcore Sleep A20 Earbuds. Discover more on Soundcore.com. S-O-U-N-D-C-O-R-E. Soundcore. Use code SLEEP at checkout to get $30 off. S-L-E-E-P in all caps.

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You know where to look. To find a Warby Parker store near you or to book an eye exam, head over to warbyparker.com slash retail.