Apple has a Fever for a Foldable - DTNSB 4970
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This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, March 6th, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, follow up on the context of those stories, and help each other understand. Today, John Croteau, CEO of Python, tells us about how their devices are helping people in medicine and more from your emails. That's right. I'm Jason Howell. I'm Quinn Dwight Dowell. Let's start with what you need to know today with The Big Story.

It's foldable fever time, according to analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, who reports today that Apple's debut book style foldable device is expected to release either at the end of 2026 or early 2027. So we're probably still a good two years out.

Interested phone buyers would pay at least $2,000 and possibly even upwards of $2,500 for the premium smartphone when that happens. Apple's been working to address the display crease problem that we've seen in so many foldable devices on the market today. The interior 7.8-inch display would be, quote,

crease free. So eliminating the crease, that's interesting. And the device would have an outer 5.5 inch display as well. This all lines up with an earlier rumor that it hit Weibo in February that everybody was talking about. So we've got more corroboration and corroboration, by the way, from a very notable and trusted analyst in Ming-Chi Kuo.

The foldable device is noted to measure between 9 to 9.5 millimeters when folded and between 4.5 to 4.8 millimeters when unfolded. Now, just as a point of comparison, the Galaxy Z Fold 6 is 12.1 millimeters when folded. So that's a solid 3 millimeter difference, smaller, pretty big difference according to these leaked specs.

And then a few other tidbits about this future product materials, including titanium for the casing, a combination of titanium and aluminum for the hinge. Also a dual lens rear camera and a front facing camera. And this is interesting. Neither of those are going to be capable of facilitating face ID authentication, at least as it stands right now. It would be a side button for touch ID for on device security.

Apple is also expected to position this as a, quote, true AI driven phone, because this is the world we live in right now. We're still a few years away from the release, of course. Quo says the second generation is already in the pipeline to follow one year later, which I think signals that Apple actually believes that this would be a success. And we can talk about that later.

But real quick, if this isn't enough, Kuo also took to X to share that a refreshed C1 modem is in development to bring millimeter wave to its future iPhones. Kuo says Apple's prioritizing lower power consumption and improved transmission speed with the update. But that stable performance has, to this point, proven to be a little bit of a challenge with this development. No word on what device might be the one to get that updated chip or when it actually might hit the market.

So when I saw these stories and I knew that it was Thursday, I was going to be talking with you on the show today when I knew we had to kind of talk about this because you are you're big into foldables. We talk about it all the time on Android Faithful. And I think the topic has come up around if slash when Apple would ever get into the foldable market. And here we are, what, six years out from when Samsung first got in.

And that just makes me say like, yeah, this is Apple's playbook. This is how it goes. What do you think? No, that definitely jives with Apple's playbook. And I think it's not a bad strategy, right? And I think one of the things that will be very compelling is the actual form factor of their foldable. So if...

you know, Kuo reports is true, that actually puts it very close to the OG Fold, which was the squatter, more landscape-y version when unfolded, foldable, that pixel that Google had put out for the OG Pixel, which has kind of fallen by the wayside. They abandoned that form factor and then adopted more of a OnePlus, kind of more...

the more taller, thinner Galaxy One Plus open kind of style. So, but I do think that's relevant because I feel like Apple's coalescing a lot of things, right? So they have had actual success and sustained success with a tablet with a large screen, right? iPad, iPad mini. So they have already an audience that is invested and consistent with tablets, which I think you could say like Google and Android in general has had less success there.

And not only that, the fact that it could be creaseless, I think would actually be very interesting because that's something that, you know, a lot of us in the looking at these kinds of devices have always discussed about.

You know, creases, durability, all things like that. So I think it is really smart of them to kind of wait, see where people are going, see where a need is and improve on it in a very Apple way. If it truly was creaseless, if it truly is creaseless, that actually, again, as someone who actually doesn't care that much about the crease, I tend to zone it out after a while of looking at it. I do think that that would be a very Apple way of coming on to the foldable scene and

And yeah, I'm actually pretty excited to see it and see where this pushes the market in general. Yeah, yeah. No, you raise a really good point. How important is the crease? And I think for anyone who has used modern foldables, and by the way, they've gotten much better from the original iteration that we saw six years ago to now. You know, I was just at Mobile World Congress. Foldables are everywhere. And the crease difference,

Actually, Samsung display had kind of a whole setup where they were talking about kind of the evolution of their foldable displays. And you could see the way it was versus the way it is. Miles apart difference. And I guess what you bring up really, really triggered in me the fact that, you know,

As users of foldable devices, I think what we largely realize is that the crease doesn't care nearly as or doesn't matter nearly as much as we thought it did or maybe as much as it used to because it used to be very dramatic and now it's minimalized. Where it's at right now, you kind of don't see it when you're using these devices. But...

I could definitely see Apple saying crease free. This is why this is important and different, or at least one of the reasons. And Apple fans, I'm guessing, would probably really buy into that idea because many of them, not all of them, of course, but many of them have never used on a regular base, a foldable device to get to the point to where they recognize how little it actually matters. But I guarantee you they look at the ones now and they go, oh, I'd never use that. That's ugly. But

Apple with a crease-free device, okay, they finally did it. They made it. That is 100% in the playbook. And I don't want to give too much hate to Apple. I actually used to be an iOS developer too. But that is a great marketing strategy to kind of hone in on just a few things that are very Apple-y, right? Kind of perfection, polish, kind of taking a concept and really, really driving it to...

like a peak, right? In a very Apple way. And I think that you're exactly right. And obviously we all love the tit for tat, love, hate, love the tit for tat between the two systems. And that would be a great, a great, I'm trying to think of a tennis term. I don't know tennis. I don't know tennis term. I think it would really be smart of them to have something so compelling. And I mean, to give it a little bit of weight, I think, and I don't, to be fair, I don't know how much this is true now, but it used to be in the early generations, I think around the Z Fold 3, Z Fold 2, the crease was a point of,

of failure for durability because it could, I think there were reports that the crease would bubble occasionally depending on maybe a person's individual model. So that could, I mean, they could even play up that angle as well is that, well, if you have no crease and there's just one less point of failure in what presumably would be a nice piece of hardware, it's Apple, of course it will be nice. So yeah, I love that. I mean, we should just like take

bets on whether we're right about the angles that they go in the next couple of years as they're releasing this. Be super curious to see. I think the other aspect of this that I'm very curious about is, and this doesn't really mention anything about it, is Apple's approach to the hinge because you and I have seen very much in the last handful of years how gaga people get over hinge innovations and foldables, right? In order to

decrease the size of the overall kind of footprint of the device and again, not place any undue pressure on the display that's on the inside to create those creases. And Apple is just, they're really great at understanding how to design around problems like this. I guarantee you, whatever hinge approach Apple does here,

is going to get a lot of attention because Apple, like I just have to imagine Apple's going to do something that's innovative and different around the hinge than what we've seen before. And I'm looking forward to what that is. Absolutely. Titanium aluminum sounds strong and light. And like most foldables these days, it looks really skinny. I mean, that 4.5 to 4.8.

They're trying to hit all the buttons. Thin, good form factor, Apple quality, probably an awesome hinge. And then not necessarily kill a feature, but a very notable talking point crease free. Well, I honestly, when I saw that we were talking about this today, I was like, oh shoot, I think I have to save some money up for this foldable because I'm genuinely interested and excited for it.

Yeah, no, I think Apple is going to do a great job, you know, and just real quick before we kind of move on at this point, just coming back from Barcelona, Mobile World Congress, and I actually just wrote an article for Digital Trends about a company, Techno. And maybe we talked about this on Tuesday. I can't remember. It's all a blur. The Phantom Ultimate 2, which is a trifold. But even that device, you know, when we're talking about thickness, 3.5 millimeters at its thinnest point.

point. And then what is the Apple one? We're talking 4.5, 4.8. So not a whole lot thicker. And having seen the 3.5 in person, yeah, we're talking ridiculously thin at that point. And so I know Apple's going to, you know, if they truly do release this device, and that is, I suppose, still in the air, they're going to do it. They're going to put out a great product. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what it's like. 100%.

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All right, there's more we need to know today. So, Wyn, why don't we get right to the briefs? All right. Well, Macworld discovered a new feature included in Apple's release of the iOS 18.4 Beta 2 earlier this week, which brings AI-driven review summaries to the App Store. So this is powered by Apple Intelligence, and the AI enhanced reviews feature is going to be rolling out just to certain apps and game listings in the U.S.,

with a couple of requirements. One, that they be in English and two, have an ample amount of user reviews to pull from. Makes a lot of sense. You need a little bit of data for that AI to do its thing. More languages and regions will be supported throughout the year.

Yeah, I think the summarization of reviews as I've because Google has been doing this a little bit, I think on like Google TV, they'll they'll, you know, with with Gemini, they'll they'll do this on some of the reviews of content. And it's actually kind of handy because then you don't have to go diving into the specifics. You just get a general sense of what people think. Absolutely. Use it on Amazon. Very handy. Yeah, very handy.

Broadcom issued a critical alert regarding three zero-day vulnerabilities of VMware products, including ESXi, vSphere, and Cloud Foundation. They allow attackers who have already been compromised, so keep that in mind, the OS to escape virtual machine sandboxes and compromise the hypervisor itself. Now, Broadcom says...

Evidence shows exploitation occurring in the wild. So there is evidence that it's out there and being used. The most severe flaw is a critical heap overflow vulnerability, while the others involve arbitrary kernel rights and information disclosure. Broadcom has pushed out patches to these bugs. So, you know, if I'm talking to you, be sure to update and restart right away.

Well, Amazon is actively testing AI-aided dubbing of a handful of licensed movies and TV series available through Prime Video. So Amazon emphasized that this is a hybrid approach to the translations with localization professionals collaborating with the AI, hence being labeled AI-aided.

A few of the chosen titles for the limited test include El Cid La Leyenda, Mi Mama Laura, and Long Lost. Crazy, crazy days. The automatic dubbing is upon us. And if it's not amazing now, I'm pretty convinced it will be in a very short amount of time. That's a really cool kind of democratization of content. I love it. Love it.

The new iPhone... God, today's very Apple-heavy. The new iPhone 16E is packing a precision timer chip by small chip maker... Is it C-Time or Cy-Time Corp.?

And Wall Street is rallying around the revelation with a 17% surge in its stock. CEO Rajesh Vashist confirmed the presence of Sightime components in the 16E device during a Morgan Stanley event. Apple has yet to publicly acknowledge their involvement, but according to Sightime's annual report, Apple is its largest end customer, accounting for nearly 22% of its revenue.

this definitely represents a big win for relatively new chip maker. You know, it was kind of a small, smaller, more new, newish chip maker having his chip inside of an Apple product. That's kind of what you're hoping for. Nice to see another maker, a chip maker coming into the fray. Well, I see you in Apple story. I'll raise you another AI story. Google announced an update to its AI overviews in the U S.

Version 2.0 with the ability to answer more difficult questions, including coding, advanced math and multimodal queries. Also rolling out is a new opt in AI mode in search labs for its paid Google one AI premium subscribers that brings added AI functionality into Google search.

So this new test feature resembles features offered by competitors like Complexity with the ability to ask questions, follow ups and actually hammer down on concepts with the aid of real time Google search, as well as access to Google's complex knowledge graph for a more cohesive result. Google is using a custom version of Gemini 2.0.

Yeah, I've signed up for the wait list on this. I'm, of course, a big fan of perplexity. So I kind of am familiar with these kinds of approaches to search. I'm really curious to see how it works for Google compared to, you know, a year's worth of experience with perplexity. Very curious.

Reddit will begin warning its users when they attempt to upvote restricted or prohibited content within, quote, a certain time frame, starting with enforcement of violent content. Reddit could expand these warnings to other content types somewhere down the line, and they ensure this will impact only a small number of its users that actually do this sort of thing and will monitor closely to be sure it doesn't create a chilling effect.

that makes other people paranoid around voting on its platform. That would be really bad for Reddit because it's so close to what they do. Reddit also announced a new rules check tool so users will know before they post content whether it's likely to break subreddit rules. And another tool called post recovery will show a prompt when a user's post has been removed from a subreddit for breaking community rules.

it will, if possible, it will give them a chance to repost that content in another more appropriate subreddit. I like that. It's a good counterweight to maybe feeling that, you know, certain kind of moderation of content is a little more too automatic. Having post recovery does make you feel like, oh, by the way, we still care if it's like an honest or an automated mistake. So I like that. YouTube though is telling creators that they will soon be prohibited from referring to certain gambling services online.

in any way within videos. So this new rule will also place an 18-year age limit on content that focuses on online gambling topics. The new rule will not prohibit videos that show, just depict in-person gambling or online sports betting in action. The rule is set to go into effect on March 19th with the goal being, of course, to protect the youngest viewers on YouTube from the influence of casino games and applications online. I can get behind that. Fair enough.

Alibaba stock is soaring after the company released QWQ32B. That just rolls off the tongue. It's a compact open source reasoning model. You can find it on Hugging Face, Model Scope, at

At 32 billion parameters, it reportedly delivers performance on par with much larger models. By comparison, DeepSeek's R1 has 671 billion parameters and is 20 times larger than Alibaba's new model, but performs roughly the same, apparently. That's a dramatic difference. The new model is available for commercial and research uses right now.

All right. We got one more AI story for you. Open AI could someday charge $20,000 per month for a specialized AI agent with PhD level research knowledge. $2,000 per month for a quote, high income knowledge worker and $10,000 per month for a software developer agent. I guess I know what my worth is to open AI. Yeah.

The information shared its knowledge of the company's interest in a host of highly specialized and expensive agents. It's a little too early to know, though, whether they will actually see the light of day. ChatGPT 4.5, on the other hand, is now available for ChatGPT Plus users after a limited release last week. The full rollout should complete within the next three days, according to the company.

It's just so weird to like read, you know, the valuation of an agent that is, I mean, hey, it remains to be seen whether these things are anywhere nearly as actually skilled as the, you know, the person or the worker that they aim to replace. But $20,000 a month for PhD level research like that. This is crazy to me. This story is just bonkers. I guess for some people, everything has a price for better for worse. Yes. There you go. There you go.

Well, those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper in the ongoing stories and follow up. And you know what? I'm pretty certain there's no AI in here. Maybe it gets talked about a little bit, but we talk a lot about how wearables are becoming health gadgets today.

And those capabilities are being put to more purposes than ever. Tom talked with John Croteau, of course, the CEO of Python, about how their device is helping people in medicine, the workplace, sports and beyond. John, thanks so much for chatting with us today.

Thank you very much, Bart, for having me. Let's start with the technology that underpins what Python does. Tell me a little bit about what Python is. And specifically, I want to know a little bit about ENG or electroneurography. Yeah, so we're a mid-stage startup in business eight years now. Kind of founded from MIT, National Science Foundation funding.

And what we have developed is a technology to be integrated into watches and wearables. And I'll show an example here. So what you can see is on the back of the watch, the green light is classic sensors that you have on like Apple Watch or a Whoop or a Garmin or a Fitbit. But what we've added is the electrodes around the outside. What it does, it just sits on top of the wrist and listens to your nerve signals and

We've got three nerve bundles that pass by the surface of your skin. And we listen and we do passive AI algorithms that detect things. We also can do active tests that kind of test your cognition on your brain.

So you're picking that all up from the electricity, from the nerve electricity that you can read. It sounds to me like you've got your own proprietary sensor hardware along with the software. Is that right? This is a very unique sensor and very early patented for use at the wrist.

you know, the general technique of using surface MG is kind of widespread people. You know, if you put it on your heart, it's a, you know, uh, electrocardiograph. Yeah. Right. Or in your head, it's EEG. Uh, but we put it on the wrists and we extract the neurological information. So we call it ENG. Gotcha. And, and, uh,

Obviously, a lot of it's patented and proprietary, but in general, what is different about that sensor from one that you might find in an off-the-shelf health monitor?

Yeah, so the two classic sensors that are integrated in tracking werewolves are two things. One is a PPG sensor is that green light. So you have green and red LEDs and they basically inject light into your skin and they measure your cardiovascular system. Mm-hmm.

So you get heart rate, heart rate variability, which is used to track sleep and so on, you know, blood oxygen level and so on. And the other thing is a motion sensor. It's called an IMU, inertial measurement unit. So it's a three axis accelerometer, three axis gyroscope, and that can detect steps, for instance, so sub step counting. It also can detect during sleep when you wake up, start moving, right? So on. So those are the classic sensors and we just build on top of it. If

If you think about it, you have a cardiovascular sensor. Now we're adding a neurological sensor. Got it. And that's the electrode that you were talking about that rings around that light. Correct. It's just passively listening. It doesn't inject any electricity into the body.

It just listens to the, yeah, as your neurons fire through the wrists, you know, it creates electricity and we pick it up. All right. On the software side, what kind of models are you using? Are they machine learning, you know, deep learning, large language models? Is it a chat bot you talk to? What's going on behind the scenes there? Well, it's all of the above. For the sensor, you know, extracting the neurological information for the signal, we use machine learning.

And then we have things like gesture control that are deep neural net. And I personally believe this is on a path for the neurocognitive information to be going into large language model. And you can, you can imagine, you know, large language model assistance in the future. Understand what your brain is doing at any point in time. And it kind of counsel you through, through the day. Yeah.

Are those models that you rent from others or use from others? Is it a mix? Do you have your own? How does that work? So far, it's 100% our own. Yeah, nice. I think, you know, we will be monetizing data. So the neurocognitive data is really the gold. And I should say we're licensing our sensors. So when you say, like, who else has the sensor? Well, everyone will have the sensor because we're openly licensing it.

You know, we have Samsung Ventures leading our equity round. We have Timex out public. We have many others in the works. But there's no reason for people to replicate what we've done because we're licensing. Yeah, I saw the Timex device look pretty nice because it's, you know, a Timex watch. What's coming from what do you have with Samsung?

Yeah, I can't talk about Saints. Don't know yet. Okay. I mean, you know yet, but we don't know yet. Yeah, they're obviously very cautious about when they say what. Sure, sure. A lot of where I heard about this was actually on the best podcast in baseball, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch podcast.

podcast that Derek Gould does. And so I came at it through the baseball lens. Talk to me a little bit about what you're doing with people in baseball, not just major league baseball, but pro baseball in general. Yeah. So that's fascinating. So, I mean, I would say, you know, the value of the sensor transcends every walk of life, you know, traditional fitness tracker, you know, is for kind of competitive athletes, you know, who has done a fantastic job, you know, it's competitive athletes, you

R has done a great job. I'm an R user. But when you talk about cognition, I mean, you're talking about everybody from students, you know, to knowledge workers, to construction workers, heavy equipment operators, pilots, truck drivers, you know, doctors, nurses. But as a small company, we had to pick our beachhead.

And we, we pick sports, uh, and specifically baseball because, uh, it's an exceptional product market. First of all, people are used to wearing wearables for, uh, fitness, you know, sport things. But if you talk to any baseball person, my son's a college baseball player. I mean, it is a cognitive sport. There is zero ambiguity to hit a fastball, to check swing on a curve ball, pick up a ball off the bat to field it. I mean, it's 100% or as, uh,

People have said it's 90% mental. You've just never been able to quantify it. And now we can actually quantify the baseball player's ability to react to a ball and to make the right decision.

All right. Tomorrow in part two, Tom talks with John about how you can measure cognition with a wearable and you can find out more about them at Pison.com. Picture this. You're in the garage, hands covered in grease, just finished up tuning your engine with a part you found on eBay. And you realize, you know what?

I can also use new brakes. So where do you go next? Back to eBay. You can find anything there. It's unreal. Wipers, headlights, even cold air intakes. It's all there. And you've got eBay guaranteed fit. You order a part, and if it doesn't fit, send it back. Simple as that. Look, DIY fixes can be major. Doesn't matter if it's just maintenance or a major mod. You got it. A

especially when things are guaranteed to fit. So when you dive into your next car project, start with eBay. All the parts you need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time. eBay. Things people love.

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We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom. Today, RW has one of his excellent show reactions. RW writes, happy Apple tech theater and the air starting with a hundred dollars off. Not sure about the sky blue. I'm more of a matte black sort of boy. The studio, save my pennies. Plus Amos hero. Can't talk about security, but we had another surprise frost this morning. Say thank you to Jason, please. Excellent report. Yeah.

Wow. It's like so many random things all squished together, but yet it all makes sense. 100%. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you to John Croteau. Thank you to RW for that mishmash, that wonderful mishmash for contributing to today's show. And thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. The show is made possible by our patrons at patreon.com slash DTNS. DTNS has a live version called DTNS Live. Go figure. On YouTube and Twitch, you can find details on that and so much more at dailytechnewsshow.com. We'll talk to you tomorrow. The DTNS family of podcasts.

Helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.

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