Apple Pulls Encryption from the UK - DTNSB 4961
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This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, February 21st, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, follow up on context. We're really going to do that today and help each other understand. Today, Nate Langston gives us his perspective on the shutdown of ADP in the UK and more from your emails. I'm Tom Merritt. I'm Wynne Twettdow. Let's start with what you need to know from the big story. ♪

On February 7th, we noted that multiple sources had told the BBC and Washington Post that the UK Home Office had requested the capability to access encrypted data stored on Apple servers by its customers worldwide. The 2016 Investigatory Powers Act gives the UK Home Office the authority to ask for that. It hadn't asked for it up until now. It

It also prohibits Apple from acknowledging the request in public. So Apple couldn't come out and say the UK did this. Apple's Advanced Data Protection, or ADP, that's how I'm going to refer to it from now on, is the option that lets you protect your iCloud access with end-to-end encryption. This is different than end-to-end encryption in messaging or health, though ADP would apply to messages you store in iCloud. It only applies to what's in iCloud.

Advanced data protection is opt-in, so not all users have it anyway. But if you have it and you live in the UK, you don't have it anymore. Apple has not violated the law and acknowledged their request, but I think we can guess that they got one because Apple just announced it will no longer offer ADP in the UK. In fact, it's already stopped it. It carefully crafted its response, telling Bleeping Computer...

We are gravely disappointed that the protections provided by ADP will not be available to our customers in the UK, given the continuing rise of data breaches and other threats to customer privacy. Enhancing the security of cloud storage with end-to-end encryption is more urgent than ever before. Apple remains committed to offering our users the highest level of security for their personal data and are hopeful that we will be able to do so in the future in the United Kingdom.

Now, they never said they got a request. They never pointed a finger at the government. They sort of left it up to us to guess why they would be so disappointed that they can't offer it anymore. Also,

Apple's government information request page still says that the company has never created a backdoor or master key to any of its products or services and never allowed any government direct access to Apple servers. So they haven't said they haven't gotten a request, but they still say we haven't complied with that. And this is how they don't comply with it. They just remove the idea altogether.

So UK users are now seeing a message if they try to turn the feature on, Apple can no longer offer advanced data protection, ADP, in the United Kingdom to new users. Again, it doesn't say why, it just says it can't do it. And existing users still have it, but are eventually going to have to disable it in order to continue accessing iCloud. So they won't be able to get to iCloud unless they go and turn this off.

This does not affect messaging, as I said. It does not affect health and it does not affect iCloud keychain. All three of those remain end-to-end encrypted in the UK when you're using it. Apple also did clarify that ADP continues to be available worldwide. So the reports that the UK had asked for access to worldwide communications were

either were incorrect or they are not complying with that because they're saying, no, we're not giving any more. We're not removing it from anyone else. When we're going to talk to Nate Langston, who's in the UK later in the show about this, but, but what's your take? I, I love it. I honestly love this response from Apple. Um,

And I mean, I'm not terribly happy about the idea of governments having access to encrypted data, especially from private companies, period. And I especially don't like the idea that the action of them doing that needs to be kept secret from the public. And it's so funny because I think, especially having worked at big companies and being someone who lives in big tech, you know, report like, you know, there's a podcast on big tech. We are so often frustrated with

by the euphemistic ways that tech companies have to communicate certain things or avoid communicating certain things a lot of times with their customer relations. But I will give them full points on this way of communicating things

This particular issue, because they are, as you said, staying within the bounds of the law, but obviously communicating something. And I do think this is the only attack that they had, to be honest, because I do agree with them having always resisted the urge to put in back doors because...

People are people. And if you have a backdoor, someone's going to want to open it for any reason. And so I just I can't disagree with anything that they've done, to be perfectly honest. And I think that they've done it brilliantly. And I just love this this this very subtle shade that they've put in this message. I just I think it's I think it's the right thing. I secretly laugh a little inside about it. Yeah, I had never thought of it. Do you just said that? But Apple has a lot of practice with.

And saying things without saying things, right? Because of their own policies. Right. So they're just flexing that muscle in a different way here. It is unfortunate, though, because, yeah, one of the reasons you don't want a backdoor is because if you have a backdoor, anybody can use it. Well, now there's no wall. There's no door. There's no window. There's nothing, at least on the end of the server.

Absolutely. And I do think also that something for this too is also visibility. And it's always a tough thing in tech where, you know, we don't, it's hard to expect every single user person to understand the ins and outs of tech. I mean, shoot, I don't, I'm not an expert in security. So a lot of my views are probably naive or under-informed, but

I do think that, you know, it's weird because we live in a time where I think people are genuinely much, much more aware of issues of data privacy and security and who is accessing their data from whether that's private, you know, private entities or, you know, governments. But at the same time, the technical details, you know, what is fair, what is not fair, what is technically feasible, what is what isn't feasible are not that known. And so I also love this in that it's a way of informing people that, you know, maybe are outside of like the DTS environment.

the greater DTNS ecosystem where we are quite a bit informed, of course, we're helping each other understand. But for those of us that are less understanding, I think that I always think that that announcement like this and an action like this is a way of getting people to have to see something that maybe they need to see by putting up a very like specific, very not concrete because it's the interwebs and tubes, but, you know, a very solid wall in a sense that will make people kind of like

I guess, confront these gaps in like intention and policy and tech. So there's a misunderstanding here that works in Apple's favor, which is this is, and I talk, I'm going to talk to Nate about this a little later as well, but this, this is not,

So Apple has been more secure with their cloud storage than many other companies. So it's bringing it back down to the level of some services that a lot of people already use. But it's going to play in the media to people who don't think about this all the time as the government forcing Apple into just removing protections altogether. And it's going to it's not that it's not bad.

but it's going to sound worse than it even is. I think that's skills again, that's really good skills at crafting a message and getting people, people on your side for sure. For sure. Well, DTS is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to high tech Oki, Chris Zaragoza, Jim Hart, and welcome new patrons, James, Vette, and Anna. Yeah.

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There's actually still a bunch of other interesting tech stories to get to today. So let's start with the briefs. Earlier this week, the Register reported that HP had implemented a 15-minute wait time for any customer calling its telephone tech support line in France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, and the UK, no matter how busy it was. The idea was to encourage customers to use other channels like social media or live chat.

Yeah.

I love that even the employees were like, this just makes people mad. And then we have to talk to mad people more often. Like, why are you doing this?

The low tide crashes all boats, whatever the opposite of that phrase is. Yes, exactly. There are no boats floating now, or at least they are now. Yeah, and this versus the Apple deft speak we just talked about, this one is like, based on initial feedback, turns out people don't like to wait. Like, you probably knew that. You probably didn't have to wait for the feedback. And then the end of like, well, we're going to continue delivering that exceptional customer experience, right? Like the ones you just had.

Continue seems like the wrong word there. The Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology, Daejeon, Microsoft, and the universities of Maryland, Washington, and Wisconsin-Madison have developed a foundation model called MAGMA.

that uses visual and language processing to control software and robotics. Microsoft claims it's the first model that can not only process text images and video, it's multimodal, but it can act on it by navigating a user interface or manipulating physical objects in the real world. Now, if you really follow this space, you may be saying, well, wait, Google has POMI and RT2, chat GPT for robotics is a thing from OpenAI, but they all use separate models for perception capabilities.

and control so they're they're using different models and handing off magma integrates them into a single model which is a little more efficient it also trains on two different kinds of data called set of mark which identifies objects that can be manipulated that could be like buttons in an interface but it could also be stuff you can pick up and move around and then trace of mark which learns movement patterns so that that's allows robots to navigate a physical space um

and pick things up and use them and move around in the real world. Magma's training and inference code are going up on GitHub next week. Can I say that I went to the University of Maryland. I actually worked in their robot lab on like navigation and movement of robots. Yeah, so this is really exciting. That was 21 years ago. So we were using MATLAB. And I will say very quickly that I had an incident where I was setting the speed of the robot in meters per second when it was supposed to be feet per second. And that was a very interesting afternoon.

Yeah. Turns out meters longer than feet. Yes. So please let, let the, let, let these models do it. Don't let someone like me do it. Cause obviously I cannot be trusted. You're actually like, no, this is safer. Trust me. No, no, for once. No, let them do it.

Well, we have a few DeepSeek stories to mention today. First, the company will expand the code it releases under an open source license to include 5G repos that release more underlying code, data used to create the model, and methods it uses to develop and manage that code. Second, Shenzhen University has launched a course in AI built around DeepSeek's models.

And finally, Hackster's Nick Nielt has a great write-up on how to combine old laptops, phones, and Raspberry Pis into a single machine that can run DeepSeq R1, no NVIDIA A100 required. I love that DeepSeq is giving us more repos right at the time that Hackster.io published this article so that people can take advantage of them. It's good timing there. Perfect.

Open AI said Friday that its operator product, which features agentic AI that can do tasks for you in a browser, is now available to $200 a month chat GPT Pro subscribers in Australia, Brazil, Canada, India, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, the UK, and pretty much most countries outside the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Liechtenstein, and Iceland. Those were singled out as like not coming to you quite yet.

Separately, OpenAI has banned several accounts that have been using ChatGPT to write sales pitches and debug code for a tool that was being developed to collect real-time data and reports about anti-China protests in Western countries. It would look for the reports. It would then collect them and create something that could report on who was involved on them and then theoretically send that back to the Chinese government or the Chinese Communist Party.

It is against OpenAI's policies to use its tools for communication surveillance. Well, if you turn on dark mode, don't do it if you're trying to save energy using an LCD monitor. The BBC issued a study that found people tend to turn up the brightness, understandably, when they are using dark mode. That causes monitors to use more energy for the non-dark portions of the screen, leading to no energy savings when using an LCD monitor.

So the study has not been peer reviewed, but is part of the International Workshop on Low Carbon Computing. A previous study of OLED monitors did find savings from dark mode. So yeah, you're still turning the brightness up on OLED, but they're power efficient enough because their dark is like off.

versus the LCD, which still has some power going through it. But that was an interesting study there. I actually felt very called out by this because I do exactly this. Every night I have it on dark mode and then I'm turning that little slider all the way up because I can't see. I have things on dark mode because I just think it looks better. Yeah. And I liked the idea that maybe it was saving some energy, but I guess, well, this is an LCD monitor, so no, it's not saving energy, but it's still easier on my eyes.

Professor Jose R. Panades and his team at Imperial College London spent a decade researching why particular superbugs were immune to antibiotics. Big deal in biology. The research has not yet been published, and that's important because he was testing Google's co-scientist tool and thought, well, let me enter the question I spent a decade working on and see what it comes up with. 48 hours later, it came up with the same answer that they had.

So he checked with Google. He's like, oh, you must have had access to my paper somehow. And they were like, nope, not in our training data. Co-scientists not only replicated their hypothesis, but also four others, one of which the team had not previously considered. So now they're testing that one. Nice.

Well, scientists at the Laboratory of Applied Photonic Devices at Switzerland's EPFL and the University of Southern Denmark's Center for Photonics Engineering have developed a technique to shorten 3D printing to seconds. It uses TVAM, which shines light patterns on liquid resin to solidify it into desired shapes. The new technique uses holograms, which increases efficiency by 20% and prints several millimeter scale objects in less than 60 seconds.

This technique has immediate applications in fields like bioprinting. And big thanks to Charles Bazdin, C.W. Bazdin, in our subreddit, who turned us on to this. There's a lot more in the link at 3dprintingindustry.com if you want to find out some of the details if you're really into 3D printing. But yeah, big step forward there. Amazing. I just need to know how the holograms fit into that because that feels kind of like retrofuturistic, but obviously...

I don't think it's like a Luke Skywalker or a princess Leia. I don't, I don't, but I don't, I don't know. I haven't looked up into it that close.

Foxconn is moving heavily into automotive space by proposing a partnership with Honda in a tie up that includes Nissan and Mitsubishi. And you may remember that Honda and Nissan were going to merge and then that fell through earlier this month. Foxconn's chairman said it would consider taking a stake in Nissan after those talks fell through. And now it's pursuing a partnership with Honda. So, you know, it's like playing automotive matchmaker.

And finally, Reuters has an article describing how several tech executives in Estonia are leading a rush to fund defense projects in Central and Eastern Europe. For example, former Skype exec Sten Tamkivi told Reuters that he and other investors are using their 800 million euro investment platform called Plural for defense projects and support for European sovereignty. Man, Estonia is always at the front of stuff in Europe. It's pretty impressive. Yeah.

Those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper into some ongoing stories and follow up. Well, when the news broke of Apple removing ADP in the UK, Tom heard within minutes from Bloomberg's Nate Langston. So he sat down to talk about how this affects people in the UK and how Nate himself is dealing with it. Well, good morning, Nate. At least it's morning for me while I'm recording this. What a lovely bit of information for you to face on a Friday, eh?

It was a delight. Yes, it was one of my favorite things that took place today. I imagine so. So at the top of the show, we explained what's going on here. What did you do when you found this out besides maybe Scream or something like that?

Well, the first thing I did was look into the finer details of what happens to people in the UK who have this feature enabled already. I did speak to a friend of mine who didn't have it enabled and they said that they had a pop-up warning on their phone that says this is not available in the UK. That kicked in about 3pm. So obviously it was planned to go live at 3pm today in the UK. I went and then checked my page and it

just said that it was not able to be offered to new users, but I did have the option to turn it off.

So the specifics of what's going to happen next for people who don't opt out is not clear. There seems like there will be a grace period offered. But at some point, Apple will have to disable this feature. And because Apple does not have the key to decrypt the data, the risk, at least from our interpretation, is that you may lose access to your data entirely. That

I'm sure will be clarified in the coming days and weeks. But I took the proactive step to disable ADP immediately anyway. There are a couple of reasons for that. One, I hate ambiguity when it comes to data and the availability of things like iCloud, which I rely on extensively. And the second reason comes back to why I went all in on

using Apple as a place for cloud services, not backups, because iCloud isn't a backup service, but for consolidating my data. And that's because I went through a process of trying to figure out which of the massive tech companies I distrust the least. And this is something, I mean, it's probably even something you and I have talked about over the years, but

It boils down to I decided Apple needs my data the least out of the big tech companies. It doesn't need it to mine for, you know, potential shopping information or searching. It wants to lock me in in a whole different way than involves me buying iPhones every year, but it doesn't specifically need it in the same way others do. And I believe Apple is still trying.

a decent gatekeeper for my information that I have on iCloud, which like most people, I think is not particularly revelatory where anyone to go prying through it. I don't want them to, but it's not particularly revelatory

risky stuff there. So I felt that deactivating it, knowing that access to this would still require a warrant from a court, and it is also still going to be protected by the fact that Apple is Apple. For me, speaking very personally, that was enough for me to say, I'm going to sidestep any potential headaches, and I'm just going to disable it now.

Yeah, I think that's important for people to note. Your data still would be encrypted on your device if you so choose. It is still encrypted when it's transmitted to iCloud. As far as we know, there shouldn't have been any change in that. What Apple has said is it has...

Apple eliminated the option for you to have it encrypted on iCloud itself, which prevents Apple from seeing it. Prevents anybody but you with your device being able to access it. Now it will be unencrypted on Apple's iCloud servers, meaning Apple could look at it. And so that's why you're saying like, well, maybe they could, but I trust them. But also meaning that anyone who got into Apple's iCloud servers, if there was a breach, could get it.

How do you feel about that? Because if it's encrypted, you don't have to worry about it. If somebody gets into Apple's iCloud servers, doesn't matter, your stuff's encrypted. It's going to be hard for them to see. Now, if someone got in, they could see it.

They could. And I have you have to trust that the powers that be are taking the steps necessary to prevent that. But I think it is on a user as well to be careful about what data they store in the cloud. You know, that is still a fact. If something is that sensitive that you want it to be protected, there's nothing stopping you putting it in a folder, compressing it.

encrypting that and storing that on iCloud. You know, if something is stored unencrypted, but the thing itself is encrypted, then the data that's being protected remains encrypted. So that's something that is always going to be available to you anyway. So that's how I feel about that. But more broadly, I think there are a couple of things that people are going to want to find answers to. The first is why was this implemented in the first place? And what we have

not found evidence of is that moves like this prevent bad actors doing the thing that lawmakers want.

push these changes out in order to stop them doing it. Generally, as we've seen from, uh, from illegal material to things like piracy is that this tends to be, well, if I can't use this, we'll move it elsewhere. And for the legitimate users like you and I, and I'm sure everybody listening, we are, have our security weakened. Um, and no one wins. There's no benefit. Um, that's the general consensus of experts on this issue. Yeah. Do you have a sense of why, um,

They decided to request Apple. We're assuming based on sources, very well sourced. And certainly Apple's response indicates that it's true that that the UK said we need this capability. Why now? The Investigatory Powers Act has been around for a couple of years.

It has, and we don't know. And I doubt that we will ever officially know. And it's difficult to speculate on that. We've certainly seen instances, fewer in the UK, but certainly in the US, where we know that there have been cases where, for instance, somebody's phone was recovered from a crime scene and Apple was...

Compelled to unlock it, Apple refused. And if you're not familiar with those cases, they're worth a Google. But we won't know for some time, if at all, what specific event prompted this.

What are you going to do with your data? Because in some cases, people didn't have ADP turned on anyway, so nothing has changed for them. There's a lot of other services out there where you store things in the cloud and they're not encrypted on the end. Apple was taking what is probably an extra protection by offering ADP. Do you feel like you're okay with that? Or are you going to take extra measures to encrypt things that you send up to iCloud now?

I feel it would be a disservice to my past self if I suddenly decided, well, if there's no ADP, then I'm not using iCloud because I was storing all that stuff unencrypted on iCloud for years and didn't have a problem with it then.

So, and I don't believe Apple's protections or philosophy and logic on this stuff has weakened in the years since. So I'm not personally planning on making any changes to it in terms of how I, and I should say that part of the reason for that is just the sheer inconvenience that it would cause me. And there's kind of a risk reward relationship

sort of situation going on, it would cause me so many problems to move what is relatively trivial and trivial types of data from iCloud to some other service, which this law would oversee as well. Let's not forget, you know, if, for instance, you moved from this from iCloud to another service that had end-to-end encryption, this law doesn't cover Apple. It doesn't even just apply to the UK, at least on paper. So there's no guarantee that it would be safe for anywhere else in the long term.

So I just feel like I will continue to make good on my own practices of what I store in iCloud, which is it's mostly mundane stuff. And if there's anything I particularly want to secure, then encrypt it before it goes up there. But speaking honestly, I don't even know in my instance what that would be. So but that's certainly the advice I'd be giving to other people.

I am curious, and we don't know the answers to what I'm about to ponder, but I'm curious, if you have a VPN, can you get around this? Pretend to be in another country, or does it go by where the account is created or how it's stored and that sort of thing? If I travel to visit you, which I would love to do,

do I not get end-to-end encryption on my iCloud backups while I'm in the UK or is it not apply to me because I'm not a UK citizen? There's a lot of questions when you do a regional thing like this, how it works.

And generally, if you look at past examples of where geo-blocking at an account level has taken place, it's usually based on the location of either the payment card holder or where the account was created. I think it is...

extremely unlikely and it would be technically almost unfeasible for your backups to not be encrypted while sent from Britain, but then were encrypted once you return to the US or a country that didn't have this kind of a law in place. Indeed. For sure. Well,

Well, and it will be interesting to see if there's more to this or if this is good enough, because the original reporting was that the UK had requested that it apply worldwide. And Apple has firmly said this does not apply worldwide. This is just the UK. So either they're calling their bluff on that or perhaps there was a misunderstanding in the reporting or there's going to be more pushback. We'll see.

I think so. And one of the interesting things is Apple is not a particularly transactional company when it comes to its own policies. It's not a case of playing hardball until it gets something that it wants. I feel like Apple could just stand its ground and say no. And if you look at what happened with the FBI cases we talked about earlier, there is precedent for that being the case. And that's in its home nation.

So you could argue that a non-domestic company here, it could be even tougher if it wanted to. Well, I'm sorry we had to talk about this today, but thank you for being willing to talk about it with me. I appreciate it, man. My pleasure. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. If folks want to follow your work, where should they go? All of my main work is at Bloomberg Originals. And if you find our new spotlight playlist on the Bloomberg Originals website,

uh, channel on YouTube. You'll find a load of popular documentaries and I write most of them. Oh, fantastic. Thanks, man. Thanks a lot. If you have feedback about anything that gets brought up on the show, get in touch with us on our social networks. We are at DTN show at DTN show. Yeah, there's two S's, but it's pretty easy at DTN show that works on X. It works on Instagram. It works on threads. It works on blue sky works on Mastodon. Uh,

It does not work on TikTok or YouTube where we are full on daily tech news show. If you want to find us there, but find us, please. Ladies and gentlemen, we are now boarding group a, please have your boarding passes ready to scan. If your phone is cracked old or was chewed up by your Chihuahua travel companion, please refrain from holding up the line. Instead, go to Verizon and trade in any phone in any condition from one of their top brands for the new Samsung galaxy S 25 plus version.

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We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom. Today, we hear from Norm and Tim. All right. I'll take Norm if you take Tim. Cool. Norm writes, based on the first few weeks, I've adjusted my routine and moved towards the DTNS briefing. Having the new feeds from Patreon has been helpful. So I start my day with Daily Tech headlines in its own feed. It arrives earlier in the day, then briefing, then a rinse and repeat.

I have minor quibbles with briefing. The added interviews aren't always a value add and the post-production bits sometimes feel superfluous, but overall it's the show for me. Thank you, Norm. I love that Norm is always honest with us. So I believe him when he likes something. Thank you for that. Thanks, Norm. Well,

Well, Tim writes, Apple no longer sells any small iPhones. I want my phone to be neither large nor thinner. Will I just be stuck on an iPhone 13 mini forever if I want to stay in the Apple ecosystem? Yeah. Sad smiley. I think you're not alone, Tim. No. A lot of people are saying that, but, you know, when can recommend some fine Android phones? I mean, honestly, we have this problem on the Android side as well. I mean, there's a little more choice, but yes, agreed. Also, on this side of the aisle, we also just can't seem to get a...

Human-handed sized phones. What can do? I guess there's just not as much demand as there should be for it. Who knows? Or maybe somebody is going to make them and then make them in.

Either way, big thanks to Nate Langston, Norm, and Tim for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show made possible by the patrons. Become one, patreon.com slash DTNS. Don't forget, we also have a live show called DTNS Live. You can watch that every day at 4 p.m. Eastern on YouTube and Twitch. Find out more details at dailytechnewsshow.com. Talk to you on Monday.

The DTNS family of podcasts. Helping each other understand.

Applebee's has a brand new Big Easy menu. It features all your Bourbon Street favorites in one new menu. Plus a new Bourbon Street chicken and andouille sausage penne, starting at just $11.99. With Cajun flavors, sure to get your taste buds dancing. Applebee's is bringing Bourbon Street to your street. Make sure to try the Big Easy menu now. Only at Applebee's. Only at Applebee's.

Limited time, price, participation, and selection may vary. If you wear glasses, you know how hard it is to find the perfect pair. But step into a Warby Parker store, and you'll see it doesn't have to be. Not only will you find a great selection of frames, you'll also meet helpful advisors and friendly optometrists. Yep, many Warby Parker locations also offer eye exams. So the next time you need glasses, sunglasses, contact lenses, or a new prescription...

You know where to look. To find a Warby Parker store near you or to book an eye exam, head over to warbyparker.com slash retail.