Don’t Click That Email Link - DTNSB 5002
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This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, April 21st, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, follow up on the context of those stories, and help each other understand. Today, Blair Bazdrich tells us about AI in dolphins and how to keep from getting fished in your email. I get it, fish. Well, wait, dolphins aren't fish. That's not funny. I'm Tom Merritt. And I'm Rob Dunwood. Let's start with what you need to know with The Big Story.

Standard security advice is not to click on links in email unless you're absolutely certain you trust the sender. Some security advisors just say never click on links in emails, and that may sound impractical, but there's an attack over Gmail happening that illustrates why that's good advice. If you're not sure why,

Ethereum name services developer Nick Johnson received an email claiming to be from Google saying his account information had been subpoenaed. And if he wanted to review the documents around the subpoena to click on a link and log in. Now, you may say, OK, well, that would get my spidey sense up. But the email came from no dash reply at accounts dot Google dot com. Like it literally came from that address, not masked, not not, you know, faked it was.

legitimately came from no-reply at accounts.google.com and even passed Google's domain keys identified email DKIM authentication and was placed with other security alerts in Gmail. So you know how it groups all of the like emails together in a thread? It did that. The only giveaway was that the link...

to log in and review your documents, went to sites.google.com, which is insidious because it's a google.com domain name, but that is Google's free website building platform. Anybody can create a website at sites.google.com. However, when you went to that page,

It faithfully imitated a real support portal. It like took all the layouts, all the images, made it look totally legit to try to trick you into logging in with your valid Google credentials, which it would then steal. The new thing here is that it was signed and delivered by Google. So here's how Johnson figured out they did that.

First, register a domain name and create a Google account for that email address and make that email address me at whatever that domain name is. Now, it doesn't really matter what that domain name is, but if you're the Fisher, you want to make it look like it came from Google. So you might want it to be google-services.com or something like that. Then they created a Google OAuth app with the name of their entire message.

OAuth apps let you access user data from Google services without requiring passwords. It's how apps can put things on your calendar without having to know your password and having full access to your Google account. When they add their me at domain name to the OAuth app, it generates a legitimate security alert email from Google alerting that the email address and OAuth

All of the text that went into the name of that email address's account had been added to the OAuth app. So they get an email from Google that looks like it is from, that is in fact from Google and has their entire message as the name of the account that was added. Then they forward that to the target. And here's the vulnerability. Google validates the message and the headers, but not the envelope.

Not the forwarded envelope. So it shows up in your inbox as a valid security alert. And the second part of the vulnerability is because the address is me at Gmail shows it as having been delivered to the target's email box. Oh, it's me. It's you. That's what we do when we send something to ourselves.

So it grouped it like that. Johnson submitted this as a bug report. Google closed it with a working as intended reply. However, after a little more attention came to the issue, Google has reopened it and is now working on a fix. I,

A similar phishing email takes advantage of PayPal's gift address function to insert a bunch of text in there. So you get an email saying you've been added as a gift address, but it looks like it's a PayPal request or an invoice or something like that. But the email does actually come from PayPal. PayPal hasn't publicly responded to that one.

What you can do to protect yourself is first, anytime you get an urgent message saying something is wrong, especially legally or an invoice or implying there was an account compromise, be extra careful. Examine it extra close. And second, don't click on a link.

From any email, but especially that kind of email. If you think it's legitimate and you should respond, go to your bookmark for that page or type in the URL for that address that you know is legitimate. Not just don't just copy and paste it from the email, but like, oh, this is from my bank. I know my bank's URL. Let me go to that. Do that in your browser's address bar yourself.

Don't copy and paste it from the email. Don't go to the place the email told you to go. Go to the address that you already know, log in, and then see if there's something legitimate about that. Rob, anything to add to this situation? Because they're getting insidious with these. This has got to be one of the best phishing scams that I've ever heard of. I mean, this one is incredibly intricate, and it really does look like this stuff is coming from Google. Yeah.

I wonder, though, are we going to get to the point to where email becomes almost useless to click links? We are literally saying, if you want to avoid this, don't click on links and emails. But clicking on links and emails is incredibly useful. I hope that we...

the Google and others come up with ways to where we're going to try to figure out how to make it safe to click these links. But I do agree that you have to treat anything that is of consequence, almost as though it is coming from your bank. I buy just by default. If I receive anything from my bank, I never trusted. I,

I always will call the call the number on the back of the credit card or I just have my bank's number saved in my phone. I'll call them directly. My bank will tell me we will never send you a text message. We will never email you with anything important. So if anything like that ever comes to you, just ignore it. I think we're now getting to the point to where it doesn't really matter who it's from. You almost have to ignore emails because this this probably would have got me. I you know, other than the fact I just don't click on a lot of links anyway.

I would have had no reason to not believe that this was real based off of all the things and just how real it looked. The fact that it is coming from Google's websites, it looked really, really compelling here. Yeah. I mean, the shortcut used to be look at the header and you would see, well, it says it's from Google, but the actual email address is some gobbledygook, right? Then you know it's fake. So that has caused enough people to not click on

Uh, that I guess the good news here is they had to get more innovative and try to figure out another way to get past that. Uh, especially with more intelligent spam prevention and phishing prevention algorithms, knowing like, Hey, these two emails mismatch. I can alert the user that something's up here. Uh, in this case, they wouldn't have alerted you because it looked legitimate. So it's, it's always a game of, of raising the stakes. Uh,

I used to be very adamant that you should just never click on a link in an email. But, you know, over the years I've realized,

For most people, especially my friends and relatives, they're just not going to do that. Even if that's the right advice, they're not going to do that. So educating them to be like, if it's of consequence, I like the way you put that, be really careful. Take a moment. Go call the website. Go visit the bank branch. Go directly to the address bar and type it in yourself because...

As I get older, I'm going to be more likely to fall for these things. Everybody should realize that. And as these get more sophisticated, all of us are more likely to get tricked by this stuff. Like you said, in this case, the only thing that would have tipped me off was sites.google.com and how busy and tired I was on that day would have been the determining factor of whether I noticed that that was sites.google.com or not. Yeah.

Yeah, I will just reiterate, just if it's of consequence, don't click it. That is really the only way to be safe because this was incredibly compelling. I probably would have fell for it. Yeah, just be real careful. That's good advice. DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to Pele Glendale, Tim Deputy, Brandon Brooks, and our new patrons, Roger and Caleb. Roger and Caleb.

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A few months ago, advanced chips from TSMC were found in Huawei Ascend AI chips, despite U.S. export controls prohibiting that. TSMC investigated. The company itself does not sell chips to prohibited parties, but it does sell them to companies that can then sell them to other companies. That appears to be what's happening here. TSMC says there's not much you can do about this because TSMC's role in the segmentation

in the semiconductor supply chain is inherently limited by visibility and information available to it regarding the downstream use of user or final products. Meanwhile, in a slightly related bit of news, Huawei is writing its own AI chip to ship domestically to Chinese companies who can no longer get Nvidia chips.

Yeah. I mean, there's not much you can do if you're selling it to someone. You can say don't sell this to someone you don't, but it's hard to see who they're selling it to. So I think TSMC is going to take a little flack for saying not much we can do, but I also don't think there's much they can do.

I've seen multiple people asking the question of how much it costs to say please and thank you in large language models. This kicked off last Wednesday when OpenAI CEO Sam Altman decided to respond to one such post on X to write tens of million dollars well spent. You never know.

Futurism posted an article with the headline, Sam Altman admits that saying please and thank you to chat GPT is wasting millions of dollars in computing power. Quote, you never know. Uh,

uh, futurism story does quote Microsoft's design manager, Curtis Beavers saying that polite queries generate respectful collaborative outputs that it might be willing. It might be useful to, to be polite because you, you get a more polite response back. Uh, but the article largely misses the point here that, that Altman was joking in saying like, Hey, you know, if we get AGI, it might be good to have been polite. My might be tens of millions of dollars. Well spent. What did you think? Uh,

I thought this was kind of funny because it's like, okay, if this is real, you had to know. As soon as you say this, you will have the most polite people on the internet saying everything that is very pleasant to AI just to run the bill up.

Even though ultimately that's going to affect them, because in a lot of cases, people are paying for the chat GP accounts and open air is not going to lose money. They would charge you more. But I just thought this was kind of a of a of a cool tongue in cheek kind of thing that, you know, you have basically a CEO of a company that is becoming very big. That's just playing around with folks.

Yeah.

Maybe it was unwise for Altman to respond at all in a pure public relations sense. But I also think what he was saying was tens of billions of dollars when OpenAI spends billions and billions of dollars. So saying please and thank you, probably in his view, what he was saying is it doesn't cost us that much money and maybe it's a good idea. Ha ha ha. There's also the fact that people were waiting. Oh, see, I got you. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. You can't say these words because it's going to cost. It is a real thing. We don't want to make light of that. And I don't really think that's what he was doing, but it was it was it was I got the joke. Let's just say it like that. He was not confirming anything when he said that. That's what I took out of it.

Meta launched a program Monday to use some kind of machine learning model to detect if a person is using Instagram, Facebook, or Messenger as a teen and move them to a teen account. Users can then change the account back if they choose to. Yeah, so that's underway now. Monday also began the hearing to determine a remedy in the Google search advertising case. This is the one that was concluded last year, not the one about ad tech that was concluded last week. Look,

Lawyers for the prosecution have suggested the remedy in this case be to force Google to divest itself of Chrome or possibly Android or maybe both. Prohibit exclusive search deals. Also share their search algorithm with competitors.

Google suggests, why don't we just have people do browser selection at startup and Android? We'll do some revenue sharing with the other browser companies, the other search engines that are selected. Whatever is decided, Google is also going to appeal this entire ruling. So whatever gets decided today likely won't go into effect. I have no clue as to what's going to be decided, but I somehow just feel that eventually Google will be writing a very large check to the federal government.

There will be a there will be a whether it's out of court or part of a settlement in court. I think you're right. You can guarantee that. My guess is the remedy that the judge is going to order just based on my own instinct from what he has written in his decision will be something about exclusive deals like prohibiting Google from striking exclusive deals, maybe some revenue sharing. I don't think he'll have them divest themselves of anything. But, yeah, they're going to appeal that. And then who knows what will happen on appeal?

A half marathon that included robots was held in Beijing this weekend. Most of the robots did not do well. Four of the 21 robots finished with the 13 miles within the four hour time limit. Video shows one collapsing at the starting line, one breaking into pieces and one had the head fall off. Exhumanoids five foot ten Tianjiang Ultra was the top robot finishing in two hours and 40 minutes, doubling the time of the winning human.

Okay, so no robot came in first, but at least four of them finished. Yeah, this is a fun video. I don't know if you saw that. It's certainly cloudish to see these robots falling apart, but this is how you make progress. I did see the video, and let me just say that I do feel a little bit better that the Terminators that we are hell-bent on building cannot run fast as people yet. So at least I feel good about that. Even with our knees, they can't catch us yet.

India's phone pay has launched a 10-minute over-the-counter or prescription medicine delivery through its PIN code platform in Bengaluru, Pune, and Mumbai. The service is 24-7, has no delivery fees, and the medicines come from local pharmacies.

This is impressive if they can make it work. That is ridiculously impressive. Ten-minute delivery? Now, we are talking about some fairly densely populated areas where it doesn't take long to get to where they are going to be delivered to. But that's still impressive. Ten minutes is wild. Yeah. And, you know, limited areas, limited cities, all of that. But even then, even then, I'm impressed.

Wired is a story worth reading about three companies competing to make devices that help visually impaired sports fans follow the action. The devices use tactile interfaces so they can feel the players in the ball or puck moving back and forth while they listen to audio covering the game. Yeah, I thought this was really fascinating.

as an outcome of all the tracking sports is doing for both broadcast and stats, right? Like teams want to have these stats. So they, they track individual players. They track where the ball is. Broadcast companies want to be able to show you who's been doing what on the court. Uh, there's also all the stuff where you can like change all the players into Pixar characters and do a special broadcast for kids and all of that. Uh,

Another unintended side effect of all of that collection is being able to have a tactile interface so you can feel LeBron. You can feel the jump shot. You can see where the puck is going. That's pretty cool. I like this a lot. Really cool because if you ever watch a television broadcast where they've got the color guy, they've got basically play-by-play going, if it's for television, it's just not the same as if it was for radio.

So this would come in handy, I think, for if you're watching the television broadcast, especially to where there are those nuances that are just lost that the play by play person that is doing a baseball game, calling it over radio may actually get you a little bit more information. So this is pretty cool. Definitely go read that wired story. We'll have the link in the show notes. Those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper into one of the ongoing stories and do a follow up.

When we think of talking to animals, the idea that some animals may be smarter than people give them credit for, we think of Blair Bazardich from This Week in Science. So we had a follow-up on our story about scientists getting Google's generative models to help understand dolphin language. Blair, thank you for joining me. I really appreciate it. Of course, my pleasure. Always fun to talk about animal intelligence. Yeah, absolutely. We covered this story and I immediately was like, I got to find out what Blair thinks of this because, you know,

Generally speaking, if people didn't hear this story, there has been an effort to try to decode how dolphins communicate for a long time called the Wild Dolphin Project. And they are now using Google technology, which is from the Gemini models, to try to model those patterns and look for patterns and then maybe be able to decode what's being said.

Honestly, I found that part of it to be the smallest part of this story, just the advances that they're making in data collection and audio recording and all of that was fascinating, too. But what do you think about Dolphin Gemma?

Yeah, well, listen, out of all the strange ways AI or machine learning is being used right now, I think this is actually a really smart one. Because if you think about how language is developed, it's all pattern recognition. That's how we learn language. And that's how animals learn language. Animals have syntax based on where they live that they have to learn if you move them for one zoo to another, for example, right? And so it is all very similar.

And so if machine learning is recognizing patterns, it's perfect. It's a great way to process just they have what decades of data on dolphin communication in a lab and in the wild. And so this is a great way to comb through all of that, find patterns, clump things together, see if you can find a vocabulary or a dialect or any sorts of things in a much quicker way than we have done it in the past.

That just sparked an immediate thought. What if dolphins have lots of really different dialects? They do. They absolutely do. Yeah. And we get really good at one region, but then we can't understand the other region. That's so much more complex than I even thought about.

Yeah. So the other thing that occurred to me about this though, is that dolphin communication is extremely complex and there are other animals that communicate in much less complex fashions. So for example, dolphins don't have vocal cords, which is why they make all these crazy other sounds, the clicks and the screeches and the barks and all these different things. And

So it's almost like you're like, okay, I know English. I'm going to learn a second language. I'm going to pick Japanese. Why wouldn't you pick...

Spanish or French or something that uses the same alphabet that you're used to. Right. So you're basically making things extra hard on yourself. I wonder if they had picked a species that has vocal communications that is less smart, that is less complicated, if it would actually be easier to crack first. What's an example of, of that? Yeah. A great example are any of the great apes.

Also because it's much closer to a human vocal cord, things that we fed machine learning models before. So it's less of a deep jump from...

how we understand language works and how dolphins use language. They use it to communicate with one another. They eavesdrop on one another. They use echolocation. So they have all these different ways of doing it. It feels like it's a huge jump to go, let's figure out dolphins. It's like you've done the hardest thing you could possibly do. Now, I didn't think about even doing this search till you said that just now, but I was like, okay, are there other projects going on? And apparently there are a few. Yeah.

Oh, great. Yeah. And I haven't done research on this, but one regarding orangutans popped to the top of the list that's apparently being done out of Cornell. There was one done with Coco, the gorilla. Sure. Yeah. At some point. That seems like it was a while ago. But yeah, it looks like orangutans comes up when I do a great ape search. So

It may be a case of this is just getting more attention because it's dolphins, not that it's the only one out there, which is good to know. Yeah, I haven't heard a lot about AI or machine learning being used to do this work. A lot of painstaking matching, watching videos saying, oh, they make this sound when they see an apple, stuff like that.

So I think, yeah, that would be my kind of deep dive that I would do is who else is using AI to elevate their research on language in other animals? So I think, yeah, I think it's a great use. I think it's also super cool if we could figure it out. But the other thing that immediately I thought of with dolphins is I don't know if we want to know what they're saying. Yeah.

They're very, very smart. But they are pure id. They are. Oof. I don't know if you've seen reports of them killing and playing with a giant snake in the water. They are not kind to each other when they're from neighboring pods. They do whatever they want. So it might not be pleasant to hear the conversation. I hadn't thought about that either. No.

But as far as I could tell, I was looking into this. It looks like really they're just doing it to figure out what they're saying. It's a decoder. They're not really planning on...

talking back at this time which makes sense because dolphins understand english yeah right you make that you can get them to understand english very easily as far as i know is that right yeah absolutely they're just like you can teach your dog to respond to commands dolphins are smarter than dogs so they could do that but you know on steroids basically you do it just so much more

I think the thing that fascinated me most about this is knowing how large language models work.

One of the brilliance of the transformer that made LLMs possible was that it didn't need to know the language. You didn't have to tell it what English was to get it to understand English. It was able to learn English by looking at patterns and decoding it. And in fact, that's one of the problems with LLMs is we don't know exactly how it does what it does. It's a little bit of a black box in there. But.

But that makes it possible for it to learn dolphin communication just as easily as it learned English and Spanish and Indonesia. And now if you go to any translate app out there, there's almost all of the world's languages, even if they're only spoken by a small population that these LLMs have been able to be targeted on. The other part that I liked is that it's narrow.

Because when you get into hallucinations and doing things wrong, it's usually because you're using such a vast data set. Whereas when you have a more narrow data set, the accuracy is better. And that's what they're doing here as far as I understand it. Yeah. I think the other piece of this that I think can kind of

melt your brain a little bit if you think too much about it kind of kind of similar to when you think about oh how i see red is that how you see red is that how right so does animal language work the same way that our language works and what i mean by that is not just syntax not just you know is there a noun and a verb it doesn't work the same way fundamentally because

Again, they're using these different types of communications that are crazy different. All we really know from animal research so far is that they use names. Lots of animals use names for each other.

That their dialects, so it depends geographically where you're from. You could use different sounds for different things depending on what pod or community you grew up in. And that a lot of animals can understand commands from humans if you train them, right? Yeah. But beyond that, the way that we communicate with sentence structures, with subject matter, with rules,

call and response in detail, we really don't know how language functions in other animal communities. So it's possible this could work really well. It's possible it could completely break and not be functioning because language

They're going to echolocate and then make a click and then make a screech. And that doesn't mean the same thing in this context as it does in this context, because they're also using body language. They're using situational cues. They're using waving. They're using all sorts of different things that the model's not going to be watching.

Or if you may, what occurred to me while you were saying that is you can make the model take into account all of that and the model would be able to understand it, but not tell you what it means. Right. Also, that's not just the model understanding the pattern, but also the model being able to translate it into English as a whole separate thing.

Yeah. I thought about that Star Trek Next Generation episode where Picard is stranded on the planet and the guy he's talking to speaks in allegory. Yeah. Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra. Yes, exactly. His sails unfurled. That's a good kind of practice in thinking about this, that there are many different ways to communicate. And so maybe using the large language model will help.

get us there much faster than we would have without it. But also maybe it'll just be, I don't get it. It'll send back nonsense to us. It might not just be the universal translator and it might be only the LLM that could talk to the dolphin. Right, right. What I think is the more likely option is the middle ground. It's going to identify very specific calls for very specific things.

Like this means I'm hungry, which by the way, anybody that cares for an animal species for a long period of time could tell you those. Yeah. That's the other thing. You could figure out those cues. As a dog owner, I know those cues. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. No, that makes sense.

Blair, thanks so much for taking the time to help us understand this a little better. Really appreciate it. Of course. Yeah. Please come my way anytime you want to know some obscure animal facts or chat about how they're smarter than we think. Fantastic. If people want to find where you do your things, where should they go? Yeah.

Yeah, they should go to twist.org or find This Week in Science wherever podcasts are found. And we broadcast live on YouTube, Facebook Live, Twitch, and all the other places that you can find streaming video on Wednesdays at 8 p.m. Pacific time. Fantastic. Thanks, Blair.

Yeah, absolutely. Have a good one. If you have feedback about anything that gets brought up on the show, get in touch with us on the social networks. We are at DTNS show that's on X Instagram threads, blue sky and mastodon for Tik TOK and YouTube. You can find us at daily tech. Yeah.

I want my dog to live a long, happy life, maybe even hit 19. So I feed them Ollie. Ollie's fresh and nutritious human-grade meals are made to support their health and happiness with protein-packed recipes dogs go crazy for, like beef with sweet potatoes, turkey with blueberries, or lamb with cranberries. Honestly, you might start thinking, dang, my dog eats better than I do. And that's probably true when it comes to Ollie. Head to ollie.com slash healthy pup and use code healthy pup to get 60% off your first box of meals.

Plus, they offer a clean bowl guarantee on the first box. So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back. That's O-L-L-I-E dot com slash HealthyPup. And enter code HealthyPup to get 60% off your first box. Feed your forever friend with Oli. Work management platforms. Ugh. Endless onboarding. IT bottlenecks. Admin requests. But what if things were different? We found love.

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Yeah, good to hear from Russell again. Haven't heard from Russell in a minute. He says, hi, DTNS crew. On my spring trip west, always keeping an eye out for some tech and other things. Tried a Waymo in Phoenix. Very good experience. Made it to the Pinball Museum in Las Vegas, which you have mentioned on the show before. Pretty amazing. And most of them work and are playable. Took a ride on the Vegas Loop.

Seems like living in the future. Another really smooth experience. Finally, in Vegas, came across an NFT gallery where they were displaying the NFTs on various screens and you could scan a QR code to purchase. Been a minute since we heard a lot about NFTs. Few photos are attached just for fun. Back to New York City tomorrow. Fun trip. Keep up the great work. We'll be catching up on DTNS on the flight home. Thanks much, Russell.

That's pretty cool. I thought we were legally prevented from talking about NFTs anymore, but clearly not in New Orleans, Vegas.

That injunction must have expired. Yeah. No, they're still out there. They are not the hot get rich quick thing that many thought they were a couple of years ago, which I think is good. I think that lets people actually pursue an experiment and find out what they're good for without having all of the confusion and scams and fraudulent stuff happening.

muddying the waters. Yeah, I actually hope that NFT digital art to display on monitors or screens you might have hanging instead of pictures. I hope that makes a comeback. I would be interested in that because art is expensive. NFTs less so. Definitely. What are you thinking about? Got some insights into a story? Share it with us at feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com.

Yeah, big thanks to Blair Bazarich and Russell for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. It is only made possible by our patrons. If you really want to support the show, you get value out of the show, you want to give some value back, head on over to patreon.com slash DTNS. Also, don't forget we have a new music show. You can get your music news in less than five minutes. Check that out at dailymusicheadlines.com. Talk to you tomorrow. The DTNS family of podcasts.

Helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. Alrighty. Good.

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