Don’t Fear Apple’s Chip Hack - DTNS 4945
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This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, January 29th, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, follow up on the context of these stories, and try to help each other understand them. Today, Dr. Nikki tells us about her Google Pixel upgrade experience along with your emails. I'm Tom Merritt. I'm Jed Cutter. Let's start with what you need to know in the big story.

Georgia Institute of Technology and Ruhr University Bochum security researchers have presented two separate papers showing how speculative execution in Apple processors can be manipulated to leak sensitive data. If you've run into speculative execution before, you might have an idea of what it is. It's what was exploited in the Spectre and Meltdown attacks. Those are on x86 processors. These new exploits are

affect Apple Silicon, but not all Apple Silicon, only the A15 and later and the M2 and later. So it's a method of speculative execution that was introduced in those versions of the processor and then carried forward in Apple's chip family. There are two papers. So there's two kinds of attacks. The flop attack takes advantage of the processor's load value predictor to guess what memory will load.

The slap attack takes advantage of the chip's load address predictor, which forecasts what memory address will be accessed next. That might mean something to you. If it doesn't, don't worry. What you need to know is that in both cases, the timing of the caching of the data or some other kind of side channel attack matters.

is what's being used to deduce the value of the data. They break around some safeguards by monitoring these different ways of predicting what's going to happen. Predicting what's going to happen speeds up chip processes, but they can watch those predictions and start to deduce things. So we're talking ones and zeros that they're able to predict, but the attack can do this enough times to put together things like what's in your Gmail inbox tab or your Amazon order data.

Two things have to happen for this to work, though. One, the data has to be open in a tab on a running browser, and the user of the browser has to visit a malicious website that can execute the attack. So if you're not running a browser at all, this isn't going to affect you. If you don't have a tab open, they can't get that data. This is you've been to a malicious website designed specifically for this, and you have sensitive data open in another tab. Both attacks can read browser tabs.

But they work a little different. The slap attack only works in Safari, and it's limited to things like Java strings. So it can't get everything. While the flop attack works in both Safari and Chrome and has access to anything in the browser's address space. So that one's a little more comprehensive.

The researchers have notified Apple of the slap attack in May. They notified them of the flop attack in September. Neither has been seen in the wild. So sure, it's only a matter of time. But right now, there's no websites that anybody has noticed doing this. This is very much an academic thing. Apple is working on a fix but did tell Bleeping Computer, we do not believe this issue poses an immediate risk to our users. So they are taking their time. They're not worried about this causing massive problems.

And the details haven't been presented to the public yet. The flop attack will be presented at the 2025 USENIX Security Symposium. That happens August 13th in Seattle. And the slap research will be presented a little earlier at the 2025 IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy. That takes place May 12th.

in San Francisco. So don't light your hair on fire, Jen, but definitely something to be aware of, especially if you're dealing with sensitive info and you're a target, et cetera. Yeah. Well, I know this is not the main takeaway, but I love the names of it.

The slap and the flop. People will remember them. Yeah. No, they're good. They're good acronyms. And I would recommend reading Dan Gooden's write up on Ars Technica. If you want to find out what those acronyms stand for and you've got more questions about the details of the attack, it's a really good write up. 9to5Mac has a really good summary of it. If you're like, I don't need to know every single detail. I just want to know how it works.

DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to Tim Ashman, Johnny Hernandez, Hi-Tech Okie, and our newest patron, C. Kilps. Picture this. You're in the garage, hands covered in grease, just finished up tuning your engine with a part you found on eBay. And you realize, you know what?

I can also use new brakes. So where do you go next? Back to eBay. You can find anything there. It's unreal. Wipers, headlights, even cold air intakes. It's all there. And you've got eBay guaranteed fit. You order a part, and if it doesn't fit, send it back. Simple as that. Look.

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Dear old work platform, it's not you, it's us. Actually, it is you. Endless onboarding? Constant IT bottlenecks? We've had enough. We need a platform that just gets us. And to be honest, we've met someone new.

We'll be right back.

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discover more on soundcore.com s-o-u-n-d-c-o-r-e soundcore use code sleep at checkout to get $30 off s-l-e-e-p in all caps Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile I don't know if you knew this but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying it's not just for celebrities so do like I did and have one of your assistants assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today I'm

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There's more we need to know today. Let's get to the briefs. Phone Link for Windows 11 has some improvements coming. Windows Insiders on the beta and dev channels can connect Android and iOS phones from the Start menu, as well as send files across devices from there. The Phone Link panel in the Start menu has a place to set up connections and a Send Files button.

Devices must have Bluetooth LE to use the phone link. Yeah, I mean, this isn't a huge change, but it does make it a lot easier to do this stuff. It's nice. When we talked to Andrew Main on yesterday's show, he mentioned that early on in his test of DeepSeek, which has been out for a while, by the way, so he was testing it months ago, he got it to say it was trained on OpenAI's models. Specifically, if you listen to the interview, he gives a couple of examples of what it said. It doesn't say that anymore, but...

It may not have just been hallucinating. Microsoft says it detected a large amount of data accessed through OpenAI's API this past autumn. Neither Microsoft nor OpenAI called out DeepSeek by name, but they do indicate it might be a company from mainland China. And we know which company from mainland China is doing a lot of cool things with AI that could have made use of all that data.

The concern would be that DeepSeek accessed OpenAI data without authorization and then used it to train its models. That would be against OpenAI's terms of service. This could explain why it was able to create a competent model as quickly as it did. Rather than some kind of advanced training on cheaper chips, as has been assumed, DeepSeek has published details of how it has created efficient inferencing. That's the use of the model, and that's valid. They've done some really cool things there. But

We don't know exactly how it achieved efficient training. More fundamentally, DeepSeq does say it did distill models. Distilling data from other models to train your model is not a controversial thing if you have the rights to do it. DeepSeq says that it used open source models and open source model or open models from meta. So it would have had the rights to distill those.

it does admit to some amount of distillation. It just doesn't admit that it distilled open AI. So whether it distilled open AI's models or not would be the question.

I know a lot of people are like, oh, OpenAI, you took everybody's copyrighted work and now you're mad somebody's taking yours. It's not exactly the same thing. I'm not begrudging you the joke, anyone. It is funny. But this is using an API versus getting copyrighted work. OpenAI is not saying it was copyrighted work. They're saying you used our API in a way that we didn't allow.

Yeah, all my creatives are feeling a particular way that there's a great German word for. Yes, yes, I'm sure they are. And like I said, I don't begrudge that. But if you do want to understand this, you should understand that it's not exactly the same thing. At least if you want to really understand what's going on, it's violation of...

access of data, not copying. OpenAI wouldn't have a problem with this if you did it within the terms of service. Distillation and copying of the data is not a problem. Accessing it without authorization is the problem. And OpenAI doesn't want people doing this without them getting a cut of the action. So there is a little overlap. There is a little overlap there. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, people are going to be splitting hairs on this for the next little while, and we'll see how it develops. Yeah, absolutely.

A lot of companies talk about asteroid mining, but Astroforge is the first to get one of its Odin spacecraft to the launch pad for a late February launch.

The company will conduct a near-Earth flyby of Asteroid 2022 OB5, which is only a few meters long and will be just a million miles from Earth next January. It will take images and scan for potential metals that could be mined. And if you're really into asteroids, Atari has partnered with Nubio to make asteroid-themed watches to celebrate the 45th anniversary of the classic video game.

Take it an asteroid story and make it about asteroids. I like this. They made the Space Invaders watch, too, those folks, the Nubio folks. Yeah. We'll talk about the actual visit to the asteroid next January when they actually get there. Or maybe again in February if they launch at the end of February.

Comcast is one of the first ISPs in the world to offer support for the Internet Engineering Task Force's L4S open standard for low latency connections. If you live in one of Comcast's service areas that support LS4, you can get ultra low latency connections when using some games on Steam, NVIDIA's GeForce Now service, FaceTime on Apple devices, and select apps on Meta's Mixed Reality headsets.

LS4 works by having packets that take longer than expected to arrive report some data back to help the other packets get there faster. It's, you know, they're like little scouts. They're like, hey, take a different path. Mine was too long. Starlink's space-based text messaging service in partnership with T-Mobile has expanded from Android 15 devices to include iPhones running iOS 18.3. The service is being tested with select users who signed up for the beta.

The U S copyright office plays an outsized role in copyright policy around the world. A lot of countries model their policy decisions on what the U S does. And the U S film industry sets standards for film, uh, around the world as well. So, uh, it is notable that the U S copyright office declared Wednesday that using AI systems to assist in the creative process does not undermine the copyright of the resulting work. So again,

because you used, uh, you know, uh, open AI or Sora or something like that doesn't mean you can't copyright the work. However, they did reiterate that a human must be present, uh, in the work. A human effect must be present in the work. You can't just enter a prompt and then claim authorship. Uh,

In fact, the 41-page report used an image that the people at the copyright office made in Gemini of a cat smoking a pipe as an example of you can't just make a cat smoking a pipe and call it copyright. You got to rearrange it, do something to it, got to put a human touch on it. I love that there's a cat smoking a pipe in this report.

Very good. It's a good split, I think. Because if you're using AI to fix some dialogue or one quick thing in the background, yeah, you should probably keep your copyright on that. Yeah, yeah. Or if you use something to brainstorm.

or to organize your layout or, you know, one of the things Hollywood has been most concerned with is de-aging. Like if we're using AI to do de-aging of a scene, we shouldn't lose the copyright on the film, right? So the office is saying, no, no, no. The fact that you're using a tool does not delegitimize your claim for copyright. It's how much human input went into it.

Google Play is rolling out its verified badges on VPN apps that meet Google's safety and security guidelines and have completed a mobile application security assessment, MASA, level 2 validation. A VPN app also has to have at least 10,000 installs and 250 reviews to get the badge. Meanwhile, NordVPN launched its NordWhisper protocol that uses tunneling similar to Tor to evade detection on networks that block VPN connections.

U S pharmacy chain. CVS is launching a new app. And in that new app is a feature to help reduce frustration. If you shop for things that are locked behind a plastic cabinet. Uh, so this is cool. I hope more, more stores do this. If you're logged into the app, so they know who you are, right? Uh,

And you have Wi-Fi and Bluetooth active. You can unlock the cabinet yourself. You don't have to call for someone who works at the store. And then you can get things like batteries. I'm sure some stuff that requires age proof, like liquor, might not be available. But, you know, batteries, razors, cold medicine, stuff like that. The system works in three stores right now, but CVS says it wants to expand it to more soon.

Logitech has launched Logitech Spot, a millimeter wave sensor you can peel and stick anywhere in an office to detect if there are people there. It lasts four years on a D-cell battery. It can also detect particulates, volatile organic compounds, CO2, temperature, pressure, and humidity. The sensor only reports if people are there, but not how many.

It's ranges five meters in front and up to two meters to the side. No price and shipping in the second half of the year. Yeah, this is for offices. And it certainly has some things that that facilities are going to like, you know, like the temperature and the CO2 and all of that. But they've the Verge was was saying this is going to be useful for assessing hybrid workspaces to understand just just how much of the office is actually getting used.

Those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper in the ongoing stories and follow up. Recently, Google pushed an update to Android that caused the battery life of Pixel 4a models to plummet. Google has removed earlier versions of the software, meaning it's not easy for you to roll back to an older version without the issues. Our own science correspondent, Dr. Nikki, happened to be a 4a user, so Tom talked to her about her experience with the issue and the replacement program.

So, Dr. Nikki, when did you first realize that you were a victim of the update that bricked people's phones?

So at first I thought that my phone was just getting old. And then I actually got a pop-up on my screen from Google that said, Hey, we just made you do an, I guess I could have rolled my phone back, but I did the update unknowingly. And then about a day later they said, Hey, we made you do this update that has affected your pixel for a phone battery. Here are your options. Option one, we can get you a free battery replacement. Okay.

Option two, you get $50 cash. And option three, you get a $100 voucher for a Pixel phone from the Google Store. And in the strictest sense, it wasn't bricked because it still worked, right? It's just that your battery would die super fast, right? Yeah, I had to charge my phone about six to seven times in a day.

until I got the replacement. So I had like a 30 to 35 minute phone life and I just was constantly plugged in all the time. So not completely bricked, but also not really usable, honestly. Not the way of mobile. It took the mobile out of your mobile phone. Yeah, not in 2025. Yeah. So 50 bucks to say, you know, sorry, good luck or a whole new phone kind of feels like the whole new phone thing.

is the better option there. Yeah. And I'll be honest with you, literally like two days before that happened, I had been considering getting a new phone anyway. I mean, the battery life was degrading. It's a four and a half year old phone. I personally, since I'm a biologist, have dropped that phone in a swamp before. So it was really starting to not work anymore. So that kind of worked out for me anyway. And I was going to get another Pixel because they're cheap.

So, but I'm still kind of mad about it because a hundred, like if I hadn't dropped mine in a swamp, I probably could have kept using it for years if they had not kind of program obsolescence it. And I like to not switch out phones because I'm a tech grandma, but also because of like, you know, the impact on the environment. So that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. One less phone and battery to send into the world. Why wouldn't you have picked the battery replacement then? Yeah.

Because I was going to get a new phone anyway. Because you were at that time of the life. And my camera is broken. If I didn't have a cracked screen and a broken camera, I would have actually done the battery replacement. You would have done the battery replacement. Gotcha. Okay. That makes sense. So how did it work? Like once you picked your option, how did you tell them and what was the process? It was somewhat straightforward. I clicked by $100 on the Google Store option. They sent me an email with a code. The code didn't work.

I had to get on with customer service and get a new code. But once I did that, I just ordered it in the store. You also have the option to send in your phone for like a coupon. And they still took the 4A. So I put that option in. I will say this runs into another tech problem, though, that I didn't realize.

I got my phone in like three days. It was fine. I paid like 350 bucks, which is also the reason why I went for... I got an 8A as a replacement. Okay. I don't need the newest phone. And I usually go for whatever is the smallest phone on the market because I hate having giant phones and my hands are women-sized. I got in like three days. It was fine. I got a really good deal on it because I did the trade-in, which gave me like 40 bucks. But...

I noticed I can't get TikTok on my new phone anymore. It is on my old phone, but it's not in the app store anymore. So I don't have TikTok anymore, which kind of makes me sad. Yeah. You'll have to travel in order to get TikTok. Yeah, I'll have to get a VPN or I don't know. But the transfer was fine. The fact that it's also a Pixel phone means that I could just transfer everything over. So it was fine. The new phone's fine. It doesn't feel like a gigantic upgrade, I have to say. Yeah.

My screen's not cracked anymore. I don't feel like it's that much more performant other than the battery life. Even though there's supposed to be a really big like picture upgrade, I haven't really noticed, but I've also haven't gone out and, you know, tested in the world, but I'm not like, wow.

Okay. So it was an older phone near the end of its life anyway. You were probably going to replace it anyway. And then the battery thing happens and Google does – we could argue about whether it's the right thing or not to have caused the problem in the first place, but at least makes an effort to say, hey, we know that this shouldn't have happened. So they give you $100 off of a new phone. Yeah.

They still let you get a trading credit. You end up with a newer phone and you pay less than you would have paid otherwise. How do you feel after all of that, though? So honestly, like it's going to be a little hypocritical because I went through with the whole thing. But I'm kind of like annoyed that they can just do this. Like, oh, we bricked your phone. Here's a coupon. Don't worry about it. Again, not bricked, sort of bricked. But.

And it is one of the cheaper phones on the market. So if there was a cheaper option, I may have just not taken the coupon and gone with that. I take it. This is probably not legal in Europe because they program obsolescence is against the law in a lot of European countries. So I don't know how they've dealt with that over there.

That is one of those things that just makes me really angry. I'm very much of the team. If it works, keep using it until it breaks. I had a Nokia brick phone for a really long time until, I want to say 2014. So...

That annoys me and it makes me think, well, if they can just do this whenever they want, then they can force me to get the upgrade anytime. Next time I get a phone, I may go for a company that doesn't do program obsolescence as frequently. Are there any that don't? I don't know.

I am of the opinion that companies don't specifically program the obsolescence, that they don't care that it happens. In other words, they make their operating systems for the newest phones they have and

And then if that has a side effect like it did this time, they don't spend a whole lot of effort to try to change the new operating system for that. They just issue coupons and stuff instead. And I will say that's more of a side effect than a plan, right? Yeah. And that's why I don't have an iPhone, because it happens regularly that they update the new iOS and then nothing's usable anymore from the previous generations. I wish that I could still use my old

What is it? iTouch? What were those called? iPod Touch. Yeah. iPod Touch. Those went out. I mean, again, I'm always late with technology because I try to not throw things away. But yeah, those become really unusable. You can't download WhatsApp. And I guess this happens with any tech at a certain period of time. But it would be nice to have the option...

To keep your phone as long as possible. Arguably, Apple has a pretty good track record in supporting their phones longer than Android-based phones. But Android-based phones have been catching up quite a bit. So it's starting to get close. Yeah. So it sounds like the next time you probably won't go with Google, but you're not sure who you might go with. Yeah, it depends. And I guess it's a Google-specific issue and not an Android issue. Are there...

Companies that are known to do this less that you're aware of?

And so you're talking about five years now of like, yeah, we'll make sure that we'll offer support. Whether it's we're going to guarantee that those future upgrades won't cause battery problems. Yeah. Because technically the phone works. Yeah. And technically you could have just replaced the battery, right? Yeah. So you were sort of getting to the end of the life of it anyway. But yeah, I think as phones are becoming more commoditized, they are lasting longer. Yeah.

And they're starting to get in the realm of laptops where you can use them for

At least more than half a decade. Yeah. And you can abuse the battery a lot more than you used to be able to like plug it in, plug it out. And I was also looking just as a cursory search towards things like Fairphone that you have a lot of replaceable parts. I don't really know if those are, I mean, from what I looked at quickly online, like they're glitchy, like it's not, they might be more greenwashy than anything else, but yeah.

If I had an option for a more eco-friendly phone, because I don't care about the tech too much, as long as it does like all the basic stuff I want, then I'm okay with that. But it doesn't, I don't know if that's really an option that exists. Yeah. Not a perfect option yet. Yeah. Not yet. But yeah. Well, Dr. Nikki, I know it wasn't a very science-y topic, but thanks for chatting with us about it. Yeah, I appreciate that.

Having an old phone kind of got me some experience for once. If people want to follow you for your science as well as this, where should they go? I'm at NicoleAckermans.com and on Blue Sky nowadays.

Fantastic. Thanks again, Dr. Nikki. Thanks, Tom. You can join in the conversation, folks. If you want to talk to people about these stories that we're talking about right here, go join our Discord. All you have to do is become a patron and then link your Patreon account to Discord. You can do that at patreon.com slash DTNS. Hey, you know what would make your customer service help desk way better? Dumping it and then switching to Intercom. But you're not quite ready to make that change. We get it.

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Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

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We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom. We heard from many folks who are enthusiasts of the Pebble, recounting their experiences with the model and their excitement at the prospect of its return. Here are a few excerpts. Yeah, apologies for not reading your full emails on the show, but I did read them in person. Cindy said, I loved my round Pebble watch. I'd love to have another as long as it has three things, color e-ink, NFC for payments, and a step counter.

Rob Bugs Life said, I want a useful device for notifications and media playback controls with physical buttons that isn't dead in less than 24 hours. I miss the Pebble watches so much. I'm on board day one. Rob was the first person to respond. He posted on the Patreon post for yesterday's episode, I think within minutes of it going up. Mike said, I'm so glad there are dozens of us, dozens who just want to watch that tells time, shows notifications, it doesn't need to be charged every day.

Tony Wang, our friend Tony Wang, who we talked to recently about Red Note, said, I can't believe it's coming back. I won't be getting one, though. And Tony was like a backer of the original. He said, as a watch enthusiast, the Samsung Ring is the perfect fitness tracker for me, so I don't have to wear a smartwatch to track my health, and I get to enjoy my watches in my collection. I think he's doing Seiko watches now.

Uh, Marty says, Eric has been open in interviews about the mistakes that led to the sale of the company last time. I hope there have been lessons learned to make sure pebble finds long-term success this time around. Uh, Martin said, if the re pebble team can launch a good looking product at a reasonable price and not sell my personal data to other companies, then this watch will be a must buy for me. And I don't want to pick a favorite, uh,

But I kind of think this is my favorite from Paul, who said, I still wear my Pebble Time steel daily. This is my second after my first died, and I maintain a new old stock backup just in case.

However, I am not a Pebble diehard by any means. I just can't get these features in any other watch. To this day, I still get compliments and questions about my unique looking smartwatch. I don't know, Paul. It sounds like maybe you defined what a Pebble diehard is there with what you do. That is a ride or die and prepared for contingencies.

Yeah. I think what Paul's saying is if someone that wasn't Pebble made the same watch, he'd be just as excited. And I get that. So that's cool. Well, Jen, I know it's very cold and snowy where you are. So thank you for persisting in today's show. My pleasure.

Big thanks to Dr. Nikki and also Cindy, Rob, Mike, Tony, Marty, Martin, and Paul for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for The Daily Tech News Show. The show is made possible by our patrons on patreon.com slash DTNS. Don't forget, we have DTNS Live. It's on YouTube, it's on Twitch, and it's in your podcast app. Go look for DTNS Live in your podcast app as well. Or you can find more details at dailytechnewsshow.com. Talk to you tomorrow. ♪

The DTNS family of podcasts. Helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.

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