Move Over Microsoft, Pigeons Use Quantum Mechanics Too -DTNSB-4960
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This, my friends, is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, February 20th, 2025. Spring training begins. We tell you what you need to know, follow up on the context of those stories, and help each other understand. Today, Dr. Nikki tells us about pigeons and quantum mechanics. And James helps us understand the Niantic game sale story better. Thank you, James. I'm Tom Merritt. I'm Quintwit Dow. Let's start with what you need to know with The Big Story. ♪

Oppo launched what appears to be the world's thinnest foldable phone. At least it's thinnest when it's folded up. The Find N5, when closed, is 8.93 millimeters thick. That's just a little thinner than the Honor Magic V3, the previous title holder. It is, in fact, just a millimeter thicker than an iPhone 16 Pro. So it's pretty close and you can't fold. Well, don't fold the iPhone 16 Pro. It's not meant to be folded.

When the Oppo Find N5 is unfolded, it's 4.21 millimeters thick, which is real thin, but it's still thicker than the unfolded Huawei Mate XT's tri-fold, which is actually 3.6 millimeters thick unfolded. I have no idea how they got the USB-C port to fit in there, but it's a tri-fold. So when you close it up, it's actually thicker.

Slightly concerning about the Find N5 is no dust or dirt protection rating. It is rated against submersion and water and splashing and all that. Has a 5,600 milliamp hour battery, so it can last a couple of days on a charge. Also has wireless charging. There's a lot more to say about this phone.

So I recommend finding good reviews in Gadget, The Verge, Miriam Joir's Mobile Tech Podcast, whatever your favorite place is, go find the full details. But one notable feature is the ability for this Android phone to connect to a Mac using Oppo's O Plus Connect app.

You put both devices on the same Wi-Fi network and you can browse your Mac files on the Find N5 and then transfer them. You can also mirror the Mac's display to your phone. You can find many shots of the foldable in laptop configuration. So you have a tiny little Mac screen up on the vertical display and the keyboard on the horizontal one. That works over the Internet. You don't even have to be on the same Wi-Fi for that.

And yes, Windows users, you can do it too, but that's been kind of common in Android phones before. This is one of the first attempts to do Mac native to the phone or native to the phone maker's app. There are a lot of third-party ways to do this, but this is the first phone outside of China to include it. Oppo's former corporate sibling, Vivo, offers this on phones running the Origin OS, but you can only get those in China.

And speaking of the international wonder that is the Oppo Find N5, let's talk about its price.

Official pricing is listed as $2,499 Singapore dollars, which today is the equivalent of about 1,500 pounds or close to 1,900 US dollars. That's slightly below what the Galaxy Z Fold 6 sells for in Singapore, a little above what the Google Pixel 9 Pro Fold sells for in Singapore, and the currency conversion makes it appear to be more expensive than both. So wait for the pricing in your region to be sure, but it's going to be around the same price.

The display crease is also narrow and shallow, making it one of the less visible creases in foldables. And you can't get it in the U.S. Oppo releases its phones under the OnePlus brand in the U.S. OnePlus and Oppo are part of the same company, and OnePlus says it won't launch a foldable this year. So you're not getting the Find N5 in the U.S. unless you import it.

The Find N5 is launching in Singapore on February 28th. Release dates to come for Europe and the rest of Asia. What do you think of this? I'm into foldables. I know you're kind of into them too. It's nice to have a pretty competent, good-looking, thin foldable.

Yeah, I've actually been main daily, sorry, daily drivering. That's not a verb. Driving daily? Driving daily. With which daily driving? Driving Miss Daily? Exactly. Driving Miss Fold. I am actually Miss Foldable. I've been using a foldable for three years. Actually, the book style foldable too, not...

Not the clamshell. And it is really fun. I think what was really notable about the Oppo Find N3, which was basically the same as the OnePlus Open book style foldable last year, is that it was kind of just a very broadly loved phone. I think I haven't seen, especially for a foldable, so many positive reviews. There were like common complaints like lack of wireless charging. So I think it was a really exciting entry, especially since

You know, foldables are still, and I don't like to use this word, but I will use it because it's the truth. It's still kind of a niche section of smartphones and devices. It's fair. And so I love seeing it. And I'm a little disappointed that they aren't following up. We talked about this on Tuesday on Android faithful that, you know, one plus rather has decided to not, uh,

basically transport, metamorphosize the current year's Find N into a OnePlus Open. And it was actually really heavily anticipated. So I'm a little sad, but I don't know. I think it kind of makes sense. We talked a little bit on Android Faithful, a bit about some research done by a marketing research company called CounterPoint. And in 2024, they did see or they did note some depression in interest in foldables.

across the board. And then, and then of course other things like AI and things like that are kind of like the focus of OEMs right now. So I suppose it makes sense. And I'm just sad. Uh,

And I just find it amazing that they keep trying to make these things thinner because that USB port on the Oppo N5 is hanging on for its dear life on that phone. Like they had to customize it, I believe, to fit. That's what they said. Yeah. They had to like change how it would normally be implemented to fit it in there. And I think Huawei or Honor had to do the same thing.

Yeah. I think foldables right now are suffering from the price not coming down, right? Yes. The novelty has worn off. So you and I like them. I love my Pixel Fold, which is now two years old. And it's two years old because I'm not going to go buy a new foldable right now. Yes.

Yeah, that's like the remarkable thing. I've been using them for three years. And I think the one thing that I had hitched my hopes on for wider adoption is, as you said, pricing. And the same phone, I mean, not the same phone, it always gets better, but the same form factor, they're all about $1,800, $1,900, unless you're talking about the Mate XT, which is that crazy trifold one, which is $3,600 if you could get it here.

So, yeah, I definitely think that's a barrier and that's probably the biggest barrier to entry. And to throw on top of that, the fact that they aren't that durable, you know, yay, the N5 is water resistant, but don't bring it anywhere near dust. Don't think about taking it out the car at the beach. And

And so it just feels like, you know, especially nowadays when we, you know, especially in like the smartphone arena, we talk about right to repair, what longer support cycles and update cycles. People want to keep their phone because they need to, you know, maybe want to spend their money on something more important other than like a trifolding phone. But the manufacturers keep giving us these,

ever increasingly expensive, little bit thinner, little bit better phones. A little less of a crease. Yeah. A little less of a crease. A little everything, a little something every time. A little something. Speaking of interesting phones around the world though, you just got back from Japan and I know you picked up

a couple of phones there you were talking about on Android faithful to tell us, give us the teaser real quick before we send people over to Android faithful for the details. What'd you get? Yeah. So the two models I got, one of them I think is exclusive to, well, exclusive to the U S which is the Motorola edge 50 pro. And then I got the, who could tell WP 35. So it could tell WP 35. We could tell makes a rugged phones and,

And so I think the Yucatel is the most interesting one, even though the Motorola 50 Edge Pro is probably the one I would actually daily drive. The WP35 is a rugged phone. It weighs 0.5

So as like a reference, the heavier phones like your Z Fold 6, your Pixel 9 Pro Fold weigh about a half a pound. This thing weighs 0.8 pounds. It's heavy, it's chonky, but it is legitimately a rugged phone. You know, it's IP 6X,

It's rugged. The ports have the waterproof cover. It came with its own screen protector and case. And it's a phone for adventuring. It has an 11,000 milliamp battery, which is twice as big as pretty much any other phone. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's chunky. And it has...

And the software also is so fascinating. I think the software is like my favorite part because it definitely has software that is meant for someone who needs a phone, but is roughing it in conditions that are doing things. There's an entire like little folder of apps called the toolbox that has things like

A plumb bob. Is that the right thing with like the string and there's a weight on the bottom? It has like a tool for like being able to measure height like remotely. It has all these little things that are like, yeah, toolboxes. And it even has like a SIM card manager. And it has a night vision camera. Not night sight, like giving you, you know, higher, you know, resolution pictures in the dark. Night vision as in infrared. It has an 8 megapixel IR sensor.

camera, which I tested in my bathroom. It was very awkward, but also very fun at the same time. So I just think that it's a really good example of an amazing phone that I think for most people will not be practical. It's chonky. It's big, but it is fascinating to see what people are doing with mobile phones.

Yeah. Roger Chang was mentioning that phone on DTNS live this week. He really wants to try it. So if you if you ever get to a place where you're like, yeah, I could be without it for a little while. You'd make Roger's day. I think if you let him. I would love to send it to Roger. It'll cost a little more in shipping. Yeah, because it's so huge. I know it's so huge that you actually can get it on Amazon for two hundred thirty six dollars.

And that's another thing that it's like, it's still like a mid to low, like mid to low and like low range price phone. But yeah, it it's a, and then the other one I got was a Motorola 50 edge, sorry, Motorola edge 50 pro. And, you know, I got these phones because the there, there's a thing about Japan and they use, you know, I see cards a lot and they use, you know, a lot of these icy cards, both in transactions and transit. And if you have an iPhone and,

You can actually use your iPhone and load up, say, a transit card, an ISA transit card. Yeah, like a sweet card. Yeah, a sweet card, exactly. A sweet card is a popular one on your iPhone, but you can on Android. And there's this really interesting, frustrating, but interesting, you know, nuances of different flavors of NFC. Like in Japan, their system uses something called NFC 5.

Felica. It looks a lot like Felica. Yeah. Which is like NFC, but with some Sony security added on top. And because, and this is so interesting because it kind of shows how smart, you know, like the role of smartphones in different countries and how integrated it is in our modern life. A lot of mobile phone providers, for example, like Docomo can actually issue bank cards. So there's a lot of additional security on top of that. So for that reason, Android phones in that are produced outside of Japan do not support

NFC Felicia or rather NFC Felicia is required for you to use say things like Suica and stuff on your phone. So that was kind of the whole impetus for me to start buying phones in Japan to begin with.

But it's just really fascinating, kind of like all the little microcosms that exist in the big smartphone universe and all their little eccentricities and things like that. Like regionalities. Regionalities, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. I learned that 5G bands are different across the globe, which makes sense. So I would love to drive this for a bit just to get a feel for it, but I probably shouldn't go. I don't know.

out too far from any big city or out too far into the boonies in case I don't actually get my 5G. But yeah, no, it was really interesting. I bought them on amazon.co.jp and it was a little bit too easy and I might do it again next time I go because it's just interesting. Yeah, dangerously easy. Very cool. Thanks for telling us about that. You can hear more of that kind of conversation about those phones and more at androidfaithful.com. Go check that out too.

Yes, well, DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to Hector Bones, Tim Ashman, and Joni Hernandez. And welcome new patron, Mark. Yay, Mark. Hey, Mark. Trust isn't just earned, it's demanded. Whether you're a startup founder navigating your first audit or a seasoned security professional scaling your GRC program, proving your commitment to security has never been more critical or more complex.

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Start shopping at thrivemarket.com slash podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift. There's more we need to know today. Let's get right to the briefs. Amazon announced it will discontinue its third-party app store for Android on August 20th. Developers may no longer submit apps to the store. Amazon will also discontinue its in-app currency, Amazon Coins, on that date as well and issue refunds for anyone actually holding coins.

However, that app store is not going away entirely. Amazon will continue to offer an app store on Fire TV and Fire tablet devices. Amazon also previously announced it would discontinue its app store on Windows on March 5th. Amazon first launched their own alternative app store in 2011. The flagship, unless you're talking about Samsung, you know, the Amazon Android app store is always the example.

Oh, well, not anymore. Bye. Spotify announced Thursday that it will accept audio books from authors that are narrated by voices generated by 11 labs. Spotify previously only accepted books narrated by a generative model from specific partners. And even then, it required each book to undergo a manual review first.

Now, all authors can use 11 Labs for the narration. You can choose from 32 languages and several voice styles. Spotify will identify titles with the description, this audio book is narrated by a digital voice, if you're browsing through and you want to know that kind of thing.

Well, Google is moving around its Gemini features on iOS. Google has removed the standalone Gemini features from the Google app on iOS. You'll still have them in search, though, but the separate Gemini-only stuff will be in the Gemini app. Google is also adding its Circle to Search feature to the Google app and on Chrome on iOS. And that's the feature that lets you tap, highlight, or draw a circle around some content to select it.

However, on iOS, it goes under the Google Lens name, not Circle to Search. Yeah, I guess Apple doesn't like them.

Saying that? I don't know. Just, yeah, don't want to promote the fancy feature on that other phone. Yeah, right. A couple of notable stories in the generative model space. Japan's Sakana AI announced the AI CUDA engineer system, which is capable of speeding up inference training by up to 100 times. System uses an agentic framework with frontier language models. Basically, this all means it's going to speed up training and that helps reduce power consumption.

Also, Rabbit, yes, the company that made the somewhat disappointing Rabbit R1, is still in business. It's still going. It announced a generalist Android agent.

which is kind of similar to what it promised the R1 would be able to do and which it did not. But this agent was demonstrated controlling apps on a tablet, doing things like downloading the game 2048 and learning to play it, finding recipes and adding ingredients to a shopping list. Basic things that you see a lot of agents do. Rabbit says it will share more about its upcoming cross-platform multi-agent system in the next few weeks. It keeps going and going and going. That's so true. I like that. Totally.

Twitch said that starting April 19th, it will limit streamers to 100 hours of storage for highlights and uploads. Twitch will automatically delete this content, starting with the ones with the lowest views to keep you under that limit. Twitch says that highlights really haven't been effective in driving discovery or engagement, so it's not worth the cost to store them for long. The limit does not apply to other content like clips or video on demand VODs, which has its own limit.

The American Society for Deaf Children in cooperation with NVIDIA and creative agency. Hello, have launched a free app called signs Thursday that uses machine learning and computer vision to teach you American sign language. Uh,

It uses a library of signs validated by people fluent in ASL to show you the examples. The examples are not generated. You get real people for that. But then the machine assesses your attempts to mimic, you know, or to talk back and then offers you feedback. NVIDIA also encourages experienced signers to contribute more videos to add to the database of examples. ASL is the third most frequently spoken language in the United States, but it has a lot fewer learning language apps available.

Also, in only marginally related news, because it's also about NVIDIA, U.S. customers with an NVIDIA account created before January 30th can now apply to buy a GeForce RTX 5090 or RTX 5080 Founders Edition graphics card directly from the company. Okay.

Goodness gracious. Well, we got one more NVIDIA story for you. Scientists at the ARC Institute and Stanford University worked with NVIDIA to create the biggest ever biology model, EVO2, trained on 128,000 genomes from bacteria to humans. It

It can create whole chromosomes and small chromosomes from scratch and analyze existing DNA. Scientists can access the data freely through a browser or download the code themselves to replicate the model. Once it's been tested for benchmarks and reliability, it could speed up several kinds of medical and biological research.

We also don't like to get too lost in earnings reports on this show because, you know, we're about the technology more than the business. But sometimes there are significant things you can learn from them. I mean, there are three out now that have points worth noting. Alibaba posted its fastest revenue growth in more than a year, beating expectations in e-commerce and cloud service. That's notable because it indicates a recovery in China's domestic consumption and also continues the story of a bounce back for Chinese techs.

companies in general. China's NetEase, which has been reported to possibly be divesting itself of foreign games business. Remember we had the story about laying off people who worked on Marvel Rivals?

announced a return to profit in Q4. Profits rose 33%, so at least they're making money. And Russia's Yandex, which was sold by its Dutch parent company to Russian investors last year, reported revenue growth of 37% for 2024, putting revenue above 1 trillion rubles for the first time.

Finally, following the introduction of Apple's in-house C1 modem appearing in the iPhone 16E, analyst Ming-Chou Kuo says only the iPhone 17 Slim will use the new modem in the next round of new iPhones later this year. However, all iPhone 17 models will use an Apple-made Wi-Fi chip instead of Broadcoms. Those are the essentials for today, folks. Let's dive a little deeper into one of the ongoing stories. Do some follow-up.

All right, you may have heard of pigeon-guided missiles, but a safer thing for pigeons is for us to use our sense of direction to guide things, and maybe things that aren't missiles.

Tom sat down with Dr. Nikki to talk about how pigeons use quantum mechanics. A study published in January in PRX Life is called Approaching the Quantum Limit of Energy Resolution in Animal Magnetoreception. It involves pigeons. Nikki, what is the link between pigeons and quantum physics here?

Tom, I'm so glad you asked. The link is magnets. So let's bring this in to a level that us non-physicists can understand. We know that many animals use the Earth's magnetic field as a navigation aid. You've probably heard about turtles using it to navigate to their home beaches, sharks, and also birds like pigeons. And this sense is called magnetoception. I actually taught about this in Intro to Neuroscience like last week.

Basically, it helps them navigate during migration when they travel very, very long distances. And these different animals, since they're very distantly related, but they all have this sense, they all evolve different types of magnetic sensors to pick up on the Earth's magnetic field. And recently, a pair of physicists from the University of Crete were curious about exactly how precise their sensing abilities could get.

So how do you do that? I assume you don't just hold a magnet up to a pigeon head. It's that, but a little bit more precise. So first they wanted to figure out how they could measure the performance of these different types of magnetic sensors. And they decided on three parameters, volume, time and degree of uncertainty of magnetic field estimates.

Really, that just means that they noted that these parameters can be made very, very small because they have to be able to fit inside a sensory cell of one of these animals, which is about 10 micrometers. Like a single cell in the animal. Single cell. Wow. Magnetoreceptor sensory cell, about 10 micrometers in a bird. So teeny tiny. Yeah.

And what all these parameters mean was basically they're trying to calculate the push and pull of a magnetic field on these sensory cells by looking at how electrons attach to different molecules in these cells, making it super, super simple. I'm sure physicists can tear that apart a little bit, but that's basically it.

All right. So that's how they looked. A very extensive and more scientific version of squinting really hard. What did they find? So they found that there's a few different types of magnetosensory techniques. One of them is induction, which we know from trains, but that's not the one we're going to talk about. They found that the most sensitive one was using an effect called the radical pair mechanism.

And this means that under a magnetic field, this effect can trigger a cascade of various chemical reactions in the cell. And then this leads to more biological effects, but they're all modulated by the specific orientation of the magnetic field. Okay. So the field is the earth, right? In this case. Okay. Got it. So basically your direction will change and then this will make signals in the brain saying maybe go a little bit in the other direction. Got it. To dumb it down. Yeah, yeah.

So because of the presence of these sensory cells and the fact that they're teeny tiny, they're inside the brain and other areas, the parameters are so, so small that the physicists decide to try and detect them in reverse, meaning they're going to start at the quantum limit of what's physically possible for magnetic field detection and then work their way up until they hit what pigeons can detect first.

And they just didn't get very far. So it turns out that pigeons are actually working or

Certain animals, not necessarily only pigeons, are working right at the limit of the operating availability of like what this quantum limit of magnetic field detection is. Yeah. The limit of what's possible, basically. That's amazing. And is there, would there even be a way to tell if they're working below that limit or could they? It's not possible to work below that limit.

Because then you can't detect the magnetic field anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the minimum possible, uh...

energy that you can use to detect it. And they are right there, or at least like very close. Or they, yeah, if they pass that limit, they become Scott Bakula and just start quantum leaping. Then they just start high traveling. Yeah. Okay. So that's, that is fascinating to me. That's fascinating on its own that in a cell in animals, there is something that works right at the limit of, of quantum mechanics and, and, and quantum physics. Um,

I know there are people that are going to say, that's great, Tom, but how does that affect me? What can I do with that? Are there any potential applications of this? Yeah, like the one I care about is that they can use this to get a better understanding of how these animals navigate the world. But I think the one that more people care about is that,

Understanding how this works, which we had really no idea before this point how precise it was, can help us develop more sensitive magnetic field sensing devices so we can build our own sensors that maybe approach this limit in the future. Fantastic. Yeah, you could be in your Android Auto soon. Activate pigeon mode.

Dr. Nikki, thank you so much. We'll have a link to the paper in our show notes at dailytechnewsshow.com. Thank you so much for chatting with us again. It's good talking to you. My presence on this show is magnetic. Take that, Microsoft. Pigeons beat you too. You can join in the conversation about pigeon missiles, pigeon quantum mechanics, and more in our Discord. Get in our Discord by linking a Patreon account at patreon.com slash DTNS.

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We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom. Today, James C. Smith is helping us understand. Oh, yeah, this is great. This is a perfect example of someone in our audience helping us and all of you understand a story better. James wrote on our sub stack, the story about Niantic and Scopely could use some context about who Scopely is other than what company owns them.

This Culver City game studio has some of the highest revenue in mobile, including Monopoly Go, ranking number two in all mobile games in 2024, generating an estimated $1.5 billion that year alone. Some of their other games include Stumble Guys, Yahtzee with Buddies, Marvel Strike Force, and Star Trek Fleet Command.

So, yeah, if Niantic does end up selling its games to Scopely, they would be in a good game company. Thanks, James, for giving us that extra context, man. Appreciate that.

Thanks to Dr. Nikki and James for contributing to today's show. And thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. The show is made possible by our patrons on patreon.com slash DTNS. DTNS has a live version called DTNS Live on YouTube and Twitch. Find details on that and more on dailytechnewsshow.com. Talk to you tomorrow. The DTNS family of podcasts.

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