Thin is in, but are foldable phones? - DTNSB 5052
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Today, Andy Beach tells us what UK broadcasters are doing about AI companies using their content, the thinnest foldable phone yet arrives, and over-ear headphones get cooler. I'm Tom Merritt. I'm Jen Cutter. Did you have a good Canada Day? I did. It was very quiet. It was nice. Oh, good. Let's start with what you need to know with The Big Story. The Big Story.

Couple of hardware releases to start you with today. Let's start with the Honor foldable phone. You may want to check your skepticism about foldables, folks. While they still make up less than 2% of sales, the number of models available keeps on expanding. Apple's still on track for a foldable iPhone, possibly next year. Samsung has new foldables coming July 9th. And

Honor just announced an 8.8 millimeter thick foldable phone. That's when it's closed. It's 8.8 millimeters thick, which it claims is the thinnest foldable phone ever made. It's not the thinnest when you unfold it because it's still thicker than the Huawei when you unfold it, but it's the thinner when it's folded. And even though it's a thin fold, the Honor Magic V5 can come up with

up to a terabyte of storage if you buy it in China, and up to a 6,000 milliamp hour battery. So like I said, it's 8.8 millimeters when folded. If you choose the white version...

Any other color beefs you up to nine millimeters. There's a different fiber they're using in the coating. But the nine millimeters is still thinner than the previous Honor foldable. That also doesn't count the rear camera bump. So some of you folks are going to be like, wait a minute, that's not thin. That's got a huge triple rear camera.

The Honor Magic V5 is available in China for pre-orders right now, shipping July 4th, with other markets coming later this year. The prices in China range from 8,999 RMB to 10,999. Translated to U.S. dollars, that's about 1,300 to 1,500 bucks. Jen, are you a foldable skeptic?

Okay, I have one big problem with foldables, and I am aware it is a me problem. I think it is just from my past IT life where people would return laptops that should only bend one way, and they are dedicated and bend it the other way. Anytime I see a phone folded in like that 90 degree angles, my stomach just has that tiny little somersault, the oh no. Oh no.

And I have not overcome that reaction yet. Let's see it happen in real time. I've got my pixel full and I'm just going to keep on bending it and keep on. For some reason, the double wide ones don't trigger the same thing. I think my brain puts that in a laptop category. But like the really thin like.

just like if you take a regular iphone and fold it those are the ones that just give me the flip from samsung that kind of one yeah they just give me the like this quick reaction and i'm like it's a phone it shouldn't make me do that the hinges are pretty solid now so wait i i know what you're saying it's it's not a it's not a like rational considered you know i'm afraid it's more of just a gut reaction kind of thing i get that that's interesting um

I think the prices still have to come down. I think everybody's trying to be the one that gets everyone to buy theirs, but $1,300 to $1,500, and granted, I know that these are based on exchange rate prices and that doesn't always translate to other markets, so it might be cheaper when it comes to Europe, but that's still only for the top-end flagship phone buying public.

Yeah. Like as someone who has women's clothes with women's pockets, I love the idea of a foldable, like something I can actually stick in my pocket, which I have not been able to do with a phone for a very long time. But I also just spent $1,600 Canadian getting everything I needed for the current iPhone. So I would not spend that equivalent money on a foldable phone at this point in time. Yeah. I guess that's a good point, though. The Honor...

Magic V5 would be about the same as a top-end Samsung Galaxy non-foldable in this price range. So it doesn't seem to be slowing anybody down. I think everybody's trying to figure out what a foldable should be and probably bring those prices down. There are a few that are below $1,000 out there too. So keep an eye out for that.

For our last two products, they are not foldables. Nothing, the company, just launched its first flagship phone. It's only done mid-range phones, affordable phones. So this one is not super expensive, but it is considered a flagship equivalent phone. And it also announced headphones.

So these are getting a lot of attention, but let's acknowledge the phone first. The Nothing Phone 3's main attraction is the Glyph Matrix, a small LED screen in the top right corner of the phone. Now, they did this with LEDs in their previous phone, but this one actually is a screen. So it's an upgrade over the Matrix in previous phones.

The idea is to give you notifications without you needing to wake up the primary display, without turning the phone over. The screen can also run widgets called Glyph Toys now. So some examples include a stopwatch or a battery indicator. There are even some simple games available. And there's an SDK, so they want third-party widget makers to make more of them. It has a 6.7-inch AMOLED screen.

1.5K resolution, 120Hz refresh rate. It's pretty standard for flagship specs. Selfie camera and the triple rear camera, though, are all 50-megapixel sensors, which is pretty nice. And the price is nice, $799. Pre-orders start July 4th with global availability July 15th. Then there's the Nothing Headphone 1. These are over-the-ear headphones, like a Bose or an Apple Air Max. They're

Those are getting the buzz. They have nothing's usual see-through aesthetic where you can see internal components through the casing. They promise up to 35 hours of listening with active noise cancellation on. So without active noise cancellation, you're going to get longer on a charge.

There's a roller for controlling the volume, which you can then push to pause playback. There's a paddle for skipping tracks and fast-forwarding and rewinding. And there's a button for voice assistance, which is also going to take you to the nothing essential space software if you're using a nothing phone. And there's a dedicated Bluetooth pairing button that's out of the way on the inner side, away from the other controls. At 12 ounces, they are two ounces lighter than the AirPods Max.

And they cost you $299 of whatever you pay in. $299, 299 pounds, 299 euros for pre-order July 4th, shipping July 15th. I haven't invested in anything, nothing yet.

But I do love their hardware designs. Like, I am literally right now sitting in front of a Logitech older G-series keyboard, which has a little display for, you know, keeping track of resource manager and whatnot. And you can play games on it and you can do other little widgets on it. And I use it all of the time. It also has a little roller wheel for scrolling, for volume, for all that stuff. And I was like, I would love that on headphones so much. Yeah.

Yeah, the only complaint in the one review, I think it was the Engadget review, they said that the roller goes parallel to the ground instead of up and down. So it took a little bit of reorganization. Your kinesthetic sense wants to go up and down, and it's going right to left. But other than that, they were well-reviewed. You can go read the reviews to find out how people think they sound, but the sound is pretty solid. And for $299, not a bad price,

not everybody's going to like that transparent look that nothing has where you see the internals, but I think it's cool. So I'm kind of tempted to put this on my Christmas list. It is.

It has moved itself onto my, hey, when I win the lottery, I'm going to buy this and a whole bunch of other things. I'm huge on over-ear. I can't do earbuds. Long-time viewers of DTNS have never seen me in a pair of earbuds, and that's why. I do wish that the ear cups were replaceable because I'm looking for a really good pair of workout headphones.

And it's very difficult. Like I love neck bands, the ones that go behind the head. But I'm willing to work with over the head if I can be confident that it's light and it's not going to move too much. And I know that one of you said like, yeah, it's pretty easy to wipe sweat off of. But those are expensive headphones for me to take that risk this early in.

Yeah, you may not want to make these your workout headphones, although I see people walking around my neighborhood and sometimes jogging with over-the-ear headphones. Like, over-the-ear headphones are back, if you haven't realized that. So that is a consideration for people, but apparently nothing isn't worried about catering to that audience specifically. Not yet. We'll see. Not yet.

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Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Real talk, if there's one store that I absolutely love walking around, it's Sephora. It's my total guilty pleasure. They have amazing brands that other people don't have, and I find something great every time I walk in. And there's

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If you're looking to fill your life with deeper, more meaningful connections and uncover the difference between being lonely and just being alone, this episode is for you. Mind If We Talk is available wherever you get your podcasts. Listen and subscribe today. There's more we need to know today. Let's get to the briefs.

There's a few Google updates for you. The Google Home app is making the member role widely available. The member role can control smart home devices and view live feeds from cameras, but cannot add, edit, or remove devices. This new role lets you add a child younger than 13 as long as they are part of your Google family group.

Google is also doing limited testing of editing messages sent to non-Google phones like iPhones. This is a new feature supported by the new RCS Universal Profile 3.0 spec. Apple has not adopted the new profile yet, so edited messages from Android users show up as new messages, and iPhone users cannot yet edit messages they send to Android users.

But the good news is, because it's part of the spec, once Apple does upgrade to Universal Profile 3.0, then all of that should start working. So, you know, Android folks just getting it first, but we are living finally in a standards-oriented world, which is a huge relief.

Microsoft announced Wednesday that it will lay off less than 4% of its workforce, totaling about 9,000 employees. This comes on the second day of Microsoft's fiscal year. If you don't know, companies can start their fiscal year anytime. It doesn't have to be January 1st. Microsoft starts on July 1st, and it normally does a reorganization at the beginning of the fiscal year. That doesn't always result in layoffs, but this time it did. It's also not the only time Microsoft has reduced headcount this year. They did it in January. They did it in May. They did it

in June. Microsoft says it is trying to reduce the number of middle managers. So a lot of these layoffs, while they're across different departments, are focused on that layer between the executives and the frontline workers. Microsoft CEO of gaming Phil Spencer wrote specifically that his department will end or decrease work in certain areas in order to increase agility and effectiveness. And I see a lot of the headlines talking about Xbox and the cuts to Xbox, which do exist, but these cuts are coming across the enterprise at Microsoft.

Yeah, it's still coming out which studios specifically have been hit in gaming. There was an upcoming MMO project that is dead. The Forza developer, which I will stress is separate from the Forza Horizon developer. They're down 50%. And I need to get a straight number on that. But it's bad. And there's a lot of developers on my feed who are...

Who are announcing their layoffs and looking for new stuff. Yeah. And if you're not following gaming like we are, you're probably, if you're following another area, you're probably seeing it there too. 9,000 employees. That's 4% of a big company. That's a lot of people.

The Financial Times reported Tuesday that a group of investors led by the Oculus Quest co-founder Palmer Luckey is putting together a new bank called Erebor to replace some of the services previously provided by the Silicon Valley Bank, which almost went bankrupt in 2023. Palantir co-founder Joe Lonsdale and Peter Thiel are also involved, though Thiel threw his founder's fund.

The Financial Times says stable coins would be a major part of the venture. And yes, Erebor is named after the mountain from Tolkien's The Hobbit. Yeah, the Lonely Mountain is what most people probably know. Erebor is the, you know, the official name. I guess it's in Elvish? That part I'm not sure on. They could have called the bank the Lonely Mountain, though. That'd be kind of cool, too. Yeah.

This is a big deal because you're seeing Silicon Valley folks, you know, Palmer Luckey is also the co-founder of Anduril, which is a military contractor, you know, putting away new way, putting together new ways of funding that for people who might not be able to find funding, they used to be able to find it with Silicon Valley Bank.

So the idea is now they can find it through Erebor. They're going to do a lot of experimenting with cryptocurrency, but this isn't a pump and dump kind of scheme. This is we think we can make a more efficient bank by doing this. And that's why they're talking about stable coins. So it'll be interesting to see how this fares and what risks they're willing to take that will not lead to a collapse like it did with Silicon Valley Bank.

Bloomberg reports that starting two months ago, Foxconn began instructing its Chinese employees in factories in Southern India to head back to China. More than 300 employees have now left. Uh, and the remaining non-local workers are support staff from Taiwan. Everybody else is from India. Foxconn has not given a reason why this happened. And the Indian government says it does not know either. Uh,

India and China are having a political dispute, which you may or may not be aware of. There are no direct flights between India and China right now. So when these people did go home, they had to connect somewhere. The removal will slow down training and potentially reduce the efficiency at these plants, though Foxconn saying it does not expect that to happen. The government of India is saying it's not seeing any sign of that happen, but it's

One of those things to know if there's a weird delay in iPhone shipping or some component falls out might be down to this. It might not. We'll see.

Yeah, it's very standard, obviously, when training is complete for 90% of that staff to go home and just keep a few at the new base. But yeah, boy, this is early and out of the blue. Yeah, exactly. Reuters sources say Intel CEO Lip Bhutan is considering skipping over the consistently delayed 18A chipmaking process and focusing on the 14A process, which is smaller and more efficient.

The idea would be expensive considering the money spent developing 18A, but might let Intel get parity or even advantages over TSMC and potentially win clients like NVIDIA and Apple.

Yeah, so there's a lot of things going on. A lot of these are perception oriented. 18A is close to coming and everybody's been like, when are they going to do this? It was supposed to be able to be better than TSMC, but so far the reports are that it's about the same as TSMC's N3 method. So I think what they're trying to figure out is if they just delay 18A or just don't do 18A, how much of a hit do they take

And how fast can they get to 14A? And could they then come out ahead? It would be worth the hit if they come out ahead. And that's what they are trying to figure out. Doesn't mean they're going to do it or they won't, but they're trying to figure out if it's worth the risk, basically.

Swiss robotics and automation company ABB announced three new families of factory robots designed specifically for China. This is an important story because it connects Europe and China on the automation industry. The machines are meant for work in making electronics, food and beverage and metals on things like polishing and moving things around on a production line.

TikTok continues its expansion into retail, opening its 17th TikTok shop in Japan. TikTok also operates shops in places like Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, the U.S., the U.K., and Vietnam, among others. The TikTok shop lets creators on TikTok offer links to buy items and earn commissions. A few Japanese companies are already on board to sell items, including Nissin Foods, Unilever, and several beauty brands.

Hyundai is launching another one of its research labs with an attached showroom. They call these UX studios. This one will be called UX Studio Seoul because it's in their hometown of Seoul. The lab features an Android-powered in-car system and voice assistant. Experiences include rooms, replicating cityscapes or racetracks where you can virtually drive the cars.

And of course, your activities as a visitor help researchers test how these new developments work in practice. Hyundai already operates three of these. I didn't know this existed. UX studios are already available in Shanghai, Frankfurt and Irvine, California. I'm a little jealous. I need one in Canada. I would absolutely go down and race some cars. Yeah, right. I'm thinking about going down to the one in Irvine, checking it out.

Threads is widely rolling out direct messages. Users can engage in one-on-one messaging, use preset emoji reactions, report spam, and mute conversations. Anyone you follow can DM you. You cannot block them unless you block them on Instagram or unfollow them. And Threads has no plans to add encryption.

DMs are available to users older than 18 in most of its markets, with the exceptions of Australia, the EU, Japan, and the UK, which are kind of big exemptions. Yep. Basically anywhere with more stringent regulation about messaging, you know, like the Digital Services Act, stuff like that. Those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper.

Some UK broadcasters want government help to stop AI companies from training on their content without permission. Andy Beach explains what this means for copyright and creative control.

Andy, thanks again for joining us to help us understand the thorny world of generative content. Hey, Tom, good to see you. Yeah, good to see you, too. So what's going on in the UK where I know the government has said, you know, some things that have angered content people?

Yeah, and I think this is true not just of the UK, but broadly, the EU has also been really restrictive against how generative AI in particular, but AI overall gets used and how it impacts both data privacy and media content overall.

But this article in The Guardian that I saw recently called out the fact that both the heads of BBC and Sky are pressuring the UK government to invest more in how AI models are regulated as it relates to copyrighted content. So what is the UK government doing that makes them unhappy? Yeah.

What are the model makers doing in particular? So the argument that they're making is that they're siphoning value off from these large content libraries that Sky and the BBC have. I mean, the BBC archive is, I believe, almost 120 years old now, going back to the early days of its radio roots.

And they're really making the argument that they're not getting compensated by these AI companies for the way that the content is being used to train those basic grounded LLMs that are being used in a variety of general ways, not just in making media content specifically, but just any text-based generative AI work.

And so they want the government to step in and force that to happen. Is this a reasonable proposal that they're making? Why wouldn't the government just say, yeah, that makes sense. That sounds fair. I think it is actually a reasonable model. And you'll hear a lot of different opinions on this. There was actually a this week there was an interview that Mark Andreessen did on his A16Z podcast podcast.

And he referred to the EU as holding back their innovation and their tech capabilities. And I had to laugh at it a little bit because, you know, he has an opinion and a position in the way that that goes. But I do think there is...

There is a need for regulation in the way that tech companies go and leverage content that they are finding and use in these. So I think what's going to come out of it, and it seems to be coalescing around UK, EU, Australia, and Canada as the place that are putting these regulatory efforts together, is

And it'll look like some form of model licensing frameworks that can be used by any government. So effectively any entity within that has any company in their

in their region would have to comply with these licensing frameworks for the way that they work with large content makers for it. And there would have to be some form of opt-outs for using that content. And there has to be some way of tracing the provenance or the authenticity of the content. In other words, we need to be able to tell where it came from as it comes out of a model. Effectively, we need to be able to point back to how it created that. Is that even feasible, though?

It's hard to do, but there is technology that's out there to do it. There are two different initiatives out there that are focused on content provenance right now. The C2PA coalition that BBC, Adobe, and Microsoft started together.

And then the CAI content, I believe, authentication initiative, which is an open source framework and version of very similar methodologies for being able to trace the authenticity and the provenance of a given piece of content.

And more and more generative AI, all of these initiatives were started well before generative AI was around. They were really started as a way to combat deep fakes that were emerging in the middle of the 2010s.

But generative AI companies are starting to use them as a piece of technology that allows you to trace the provenance of a given piece of content through its entire media lifecycle. So when you say provenance, though, it's not what pieces of training data might have come from the BBC and elsewhere. It's whether this was generated or not.

Correct. Absolutely. But I think long term, there will likely become ways of also leveraging that to to at least.

point back to what influenced the creation of that content. So in other words, is this more like a BBC style content? Is it more of a New York Times style piece of content or others that are there? Those may be very long in emerging as a piece of technology, but it is likely something that we're going to have to come up with in the long run. That sounds like a road to hell to me, honestly, because

I, as an artist, uh, could make something and then you could argue for days what influence this or that had on it. What, you know, we've, we've had tons of court cases about music where people argue, well, I just made this up and it happens to sound like that. I wasn't influenced by it. Uh,

I guess you could have a more nuts and bolts answer if you can actually trace the reasoning process to the training data. But as far as I understand, it's all about weights and measures in there, which makes it infinitely complicated. And in some cases, a matter of opinion, how much

is, is the inference. It just seems cleaner to me to be like the data gets licensed on the way in and then gets labeled on the way out, but trying to figure out inside, uh, I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm just becoming an old man, but that, that seems fraught with peril.

It is definitely a tough problem without a question. I do believe, and you're absolutely right, there will be more tagging of the content as it goes in. But I think we will see more and more a way that emerges that probably relies on something like Trusted Ledger or, dare I say, blockchain that allows you to have some sort of micropayment for some sort of right on the other side of it. And it's not going to show up

for the influence of a piece of writing, but it might show up for the reuse of a person's likeness or a brand likeness in particular as a starting point. So I think all of this technology and this regulation work that's going on will lead to sort of a new economy and a new business model for how we do payments that involve an AI model as part of the thing that's creating the content.

But this is not a problem we're solving this year, and it's not a problem we're solving next year. It's a conversation we're going to be having for probably the next decade. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Especially as the U.S. has an entirely different regulatory approach we don't have time to get into right now. Not even close. Yeah. Andy, thanks so much for explaining this to me, man. I appreciate it. If folks want to get your insights on ongoing things all the time, where should they go?

Tom, I've been writing at a substack called Engines of Change. The URL for that is enginesofchange.ai. Excellent. Thank you, man. Thanks, Tom. Definitely relates to the story yesterday from Cloudflare, where they are trying to create a royalty system on the harvesting end, right? Whereas what Andy's talking about is on the other end of this. It's really interesting.

Really, anybody's guess is going to end up at this point. Yeah, I really appreciate the clarification on provenance. Because one of the things I had been interested in from the training on news is, as anyone who has listened to various news sources know, obviously my experience is closer to CBC and BBC. And each, regardless of accent, there's a particular cadence. I fall into CBC cadence. Yeah.

A lot more often than I want to admit, but that's a style. How do you track that style? Yeah, yeah. That's fascinating. What do you want to hear us talk about on the show? One way to let us know is in our subreddit. You can submit stories and vote on them at reddit.com slash r slash Daily Tech News Show.

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One Bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too. Ah, really? Thanks, Capital One Bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. member FDIC.

Oh,

Oh, and if you haven't tried Day Shampoo, go try it. It's a game changer. Sephora isn't just a store. It's the beauty destination. Go. You'll thank me later. We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom. Today, Johan is helping us understand. Yeah.

Yeah, Johan, writing about that Cloudflare story from yesterday says, I work for a publisher experimenting with bot paywalls. One thing that I haven't heard a good answer for is the sub-licensing problem. Remember, as a publisher, we don't create everything ourselves. There are images, news feeds from services like Reuters, charts, and so on that use paywalls.

third-party data. We have the right to publish the content we acquire to an audience, but at least in Germany, that does not necessarily include the right to sub-license it for a completely different thing. Johan from way too sunny Germany. I hope it gets slightly less sunny for you, Johan. And yeah, that's a great point. Like,

If I say, sure, bot, you give me money, I'll let you crawl my site. Then what about the person who's like, wait, you got stuff on your site that's mine. I need a cut of that too.

What are you thinking about? Do you have some insight into a story? Please share it with us over at feedback at dailytechnewsshow.com. Big thanks to Andy Beach and Johan for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You can keep us in business by becoming a patron and you get a little more from it as well, including other shows and exclusives. Find all that at patreon.com slash DTNS. Talk to you soon. The DTNS family of podcasts.

Helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too. Ah, really? Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash Bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.

For the ones who get it done.