UK Orders a Back Door to Apple Encryption - DTNSB 4952
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Picture this. You're in the garage, hands covered in grease, just finished up tuning your engine with a part you found on eBay. And you realize, you know what? I could also use new brakes. So where do you go next? Back to eBay. And you've got eBay guaranteed fit. You order a part, and if it doesn't fit, send it back. Simple as that.

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Today, Dr. Nikki tells us about some of the uncertainty surrounding U.S. science funding and more from your emails. Speaking of craziness, I'm Tom Merritt. I'm Shannon Morse. Let's start with what you need to know with The Big Story.

The BBC and Washington Post have both spoken to multiple sources who say that last month, the UK Home Office requested access to encrypted data stored on Apple servers worldwide. The 2016 Investigatory Powers Act gives the Home Office the authority to do that. It also prohibits Apple from acknowledging the request in public.

The notice allegedly applies in this case to all content stored using Apple's advanced data protection, which is end-to-end encrypted and under the control of the user, not Apple. Apple can't see it unless they weaken the encryption that they provide to users. The notice is reportedly set up

for a capability so it can be used in case of a national security need. So they're not asking for any particular information right now. They're saying, we are ordering you to set up the capability in case we need it in the future. Not all users have advanced data protection turned on. Apple makes it opt-in since it cannot aid in data recovery if you lose your key. So they want you to know what you're getting into before you turn it off.

Apple has said it would withdraw security services from the UK market rather than comply with any backdoor request like this. So, for example...

It might just remove the option for end-to-end encryption altogether for UK users in this case. However, that might not help them. The Investigatory Powers Act can, and in this case, the request reportedly does, apply worldwide. So if you're a business operating in the UK, you have to comply with the act, and they can say, we want the capability to see any data anywhere in the world, anywhere.

that you store a server. And the only way to get out of that, I guess, would be stop doing business altogether in the UK. So the alternative would be Apple providing a backdoor to all countries, not just the UK. Apple does have the right to appeal the request and they might be doing this. We don't know where this is because the act prohibits them from talking about it. They can't say they got a request. They can't say what they're doing about the request. They

You may be wondering about Google. Google told the Washington Post that, quote, Google cannot access Android end-to-end encrypted backup data even with a legal order, which implies it hasn't received one. But again, it couldn't say so if it had.

Giving access to the UK is meant to only be used by the government, right? That's that the government's like, we just want this access. Don't give it to anybody else. Just give us a backdoor. We'll be responsible. We'll only use it in cases of national security. But the government cannot guarantee that once a backdoor is created, it would not be exploited by other malicious actors, including rival state governments with sophisticated attack capabilities.

Apple famously resisted requests on those grounds in 2016 when the U.S. FBI wanted access to user encrypted data. And since that time, the U.S. and several other governments have shifted their stances to emphasize the need for encryption to improve security against foreign attacks. They're like, you know what? Maybe end encryption is a really good idea when we have all these advanced persistent threats out there.

And in fact, in December, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States agreed on security best practices that recommended web traffic be, and we'll quote, end to end encrypted to the maximum extent possible. In other words, in the face of foreign actors trying to get into our stuff, we're recommending everybody just to be safe, do end to end encryption safely.

on our things to the maximum extent possible. You may have noticed that I said Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the U.S. Those are four of the five eyes. The fifth, the U.K., did not join in this recommendation. Now, just a note here, in case you're wondering, The Verge published an updated article today on how to turn on Apple's advanced data protection, just in case you'd like to have that on. We'll link to that in our show notes. But Shannon, I mean, what is there to say?

Oh, I'm so disappointed. I really hope that Apple... That is a thing to say. I really hope that Apple sticks with their guns over here and they decide to keep up with the NTN encryption and resist any kind of government entities trying to get access to these because you are correct when you say...

Even though the government is saying like, yeah, we'll be responsible. We're going to take care of this content. There's always the possibility that if a backdoor exists, anybody could get access to that backdoor. And you never know how secure a government is actually going to be able to protect this data.

Yeah, the problem is that, you know, look at Salt Typhoon. Look at any of these advanced persistent threats where foreign actors are getting into systems. They are phishing people. They're spear phishing people. They are social engineering. They are finding ways. So it's not about whether you set up the back door securely. It's about can you guarantee that these actors will not be able to get to it? And the only way to guarantee that is to not to have it.

Exactly. And yeah, you can never guarantee that they won't be able to get access to it, especially with changes in technology in the future. And with how quickly technology is evolving right now, there's always a possibility that encryption could be broken. Now, I'm not saying that

Apple's current end-to-end encryption could be broken, but in the future, that could be a potential possibility. So protecting that data at the utmost that you can is really crucial for consumers. Yeah, no, absolutely. I don't know what Apple can do. We won't be able to watch it because this is one of those pernicious acts that says, we're going to order you to do something and you can't tell anybody whether you're doing it or not. So, yeah,

I think Apple's options are to play a game of chicken with the UK and say, fine, we will remove ourselves from the UK market. That would be the canary in the coal mine, I guess. I was just thinking. We can't tell you why, but guess what? No more iPhones in the UK. Because otherwise, if they're saying we want access worldwide, there's no other way for Apple to protect its worldwide users.

Exactly. You know, there used to be, and just a quick little comment, there used to be websites called canaries that different brands and companies would put on their domain. And if that canary website went down or if it disappeared, you would know that they got some kind of warrant or request for access to data. I don't know if companies still use those kind of canary websites or web pages anymore, but that used to be a really big thing in the cybersecurity industry. Yeah. Yeah.

There is not one that I can find easily, but if someone knows about one for Apple, let us know. Feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. All right. DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Thank you so much to Jeffrey Zilks, Alo, Adam L., and Tony Glass. Picture this. You're in the garage, hands covered in grease, just finished up tuning your engine with a part you found on eBay. And you realize, you know what?

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Amazon became the third of the big three cloud providers to report slower than expected growth in its cloud services. AWS revenue grew 19%, which was just shy of what analysts had thought it would do. CEO Andy Jassy blamed it on the inconsistent flow of chips from third-party partners. Now, it can't get chips fast enough to meet demand.

Microsoft and Alphabet also posted slower growth numbers for cloud services, and Microsoft also complained of not being able to increase capacity fast enough. Amazon joined Alphabet, Meta, and Microsoft in announcing large capital spending in the coming year to add capacity for anticipated AI demand in cloud services.

The Financial Times says the four companies combined will raise spending by 63% on the year. Amazon beat estimates in retail with 7% growth. So they got that going for them. That's good. Yeah. The, the...

I'm very curious for somebody to do a good investigative piece on what is causing the chip slowdown. There's the NVIDIA 5090 shortage that everybody thinks has to do with like maybe they wanted to get out into the supply chain ahead of tariffs or something. But there's also this, this like we just can't get the chips fast enough shortage.

And up until now, I think everybody thought, oh, it's just because there's so much demand, they can't make the chips fast enough. But when you have all four major cloud service providers in the world saying we can't get enough chips, it makes me think that there's something else contributing to the slowdown in chip manufacturing. And I don't know what that is. I'm curious. I do hope that we'll see more information about that now. Yeah. And if you have that information, again, feedback. Tell us. Yeah.

In the case of Cadry versus Meta, which is brought by some authors, the alleged copyright infringement in the training of large language models, emails submitted as evidence gave more details on the data sets that Meta accessed, which included millions of books. Now, Meta admitted accessing LibGen last month. They aren't trying to deny that they accessed it, but the unredacted emails show exactly how much and what data sets.

So you can have no question about what was actually in them. It also showed that Meta torrented

These data sets when they access them, meaning technically they are culpable for the distribution of these data sets as well, because that's the way torrenting works. When you download bits of a torrent file, you also seed it to provide it to others. And in a lot of cases, you're prevented from not seeding it like that's just the only way you can get it.

Email showed that meta employees were aware of this and were concerned about the legal implications of seeding when they were using torrents. They did not use Facebook servers to do the torrenting just to avoid the risk.

And while this might not affect the question of whether training on copyrighted data is allowed or not, which everybody would like courts to give more clarification and personally, I think legislatures are going to have to weigh in on, Meta could end up being guilty of copyright violation in this case solely on the distribution of this. Ooh, Meta's in trouble.

I'm curious. Are they are they using Kazaa? Is it Pirate Bay? Like what's what's their form? I didn't look close enough to see if it names a client. Yeah, there there was people are making a big deal about one email. It's like it feels so wrong to be torrenting on a work laptop. And they're like, see, he knew. I'm like, no, everybody, anybody would say that even if this was totally legitimate and you can torrent totally legitimate things. Somebody might joke like, yeah, it feels weird.

Yeah, honestly, like when I was working with Hack 5, we used to torrent the show back in the early, early days of the show to make it easily distributable to people who didn't have like fast connections. And it really helped with getting the word out about the show that I used to work on. So it's definitely a thing that you can use for legal uses. But in this case, it does not sound like it. Yeah.

Bloomberg's Mark Gurman says that Apple will announce new versions of its less expensive Apple iPhone SE models as soon as next week to go on sale at the end of February. Apple last updated the iPhone SE in 2022. So this is a long time coming. Yeah, everybody's been waiting for that and everybody's waiting for the price point as well because it'll be below $500. But, you know, we're exactly below.

In our ever-evolving attempt to sort what's tech from what's not in the U.S. Department of Government Efficiencies activities, not to mention what's actually true or not, which is also hard to say, here's what I can say today. Two sources tell Wired that a chatbot is being developed for the U.S. General Services Administration called GSAI. Get it? GSA is the agency and then GSAI because it's chatbot.

The aim of that might be to increase productivity, you know, just chatbots in general are thought to help people with writing and stuff, but also to analyze data. Wired sources also say the department has been given read-only access to systems at the U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. The CFPB was created in 2008 to investigate and reform financial institutions.

That isn't particularly interesting from the tech side, but I figured I'd follow up on our discussion from Wednesday about what systems the department is getting access to. And there is a story that some U.S. attorneys general plan plan to file a lawsuit about all of this access. And we'll talk about it when and if that happens.

Acer announced two new gaming laptops in the Helios Neo AI line at a Counter-Strike tournament in Poland. The Helios Neo 16 AI and 18 AI can come with up to an Intel Core Ultra 9275HX processor and an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Ti laptop GPU. They also both come with

The fancy RGB keyboards. I love to see it. The Neo 16 AI has a 240 hertz refresh rate, which is great. And also a one millisecond response time. So it should be excellent for gaming. The Neo 18 AI also has a 250 hertz refresh rate and a three millisecond response time. Now the Neo 16 comes in April. It's going to be 1900 USD and the 18 will come in May for 2200 USD.

Yeah, you won't get the 5070 or the Core Ultra 9 275 at those prices, but that's where you'll start. I thought it was interesting that they're announcing this at a Counter-Strike tournament as well. Yeah, that's pretty exciting. So it's going to be interesting to see. And those are pretty good prices for current gaming laptops, too. They're very competitive. I think the 16 is meant to be the mobile one and the 18 is more of a desktop replacement. Yes.

Thursday, mobile security company NowSecure reported that DeepSeek sends some of its data over unencrypted channels, including organization ID, user OS, and what language you're using, which makes it readable by anyone bothering to monitor traffic.

and could be altered in transit if a sophisticated attacker really put their mind to it. Now, Secure also determined that that data ends up on cloud services operated by ByteDance. And then, you know, pointed out like, well, if they're getting user OS and language, they could do fingerprinting and then try to match it to users of their other services. They're not saying they are, but they could. You may recognize the name ByteDance. They own TikTok. Yeah.

They're that bytance. Anyway, they own TikTok in the U.S. for now. Now Secure recommends organizations remove the DeepSeek app. And obviously anybody using it should be aware that you're not private when using it. Shannon, I was kind of already assuming I wasn't private when I was using it. Me too. But this is, you know, it's interesting to get evidence that that in fact is the case.

Yes, I was very aware when I downloaded the DeepSeek app that there is probably some information being transmitted there that's not encrypted. So I'm compliant with a little bit of that, but also be very aware if you are a consumer using it that this is something that

is happening. Uh, I don't think this would affect the, uh, the version where you can, uh, run it locally though. I'm pretty sure this would just happen with the applications. So keep that in mind too. Uh,

As expected, Oppo is leaking out a steady number of teases to its flagship Find N5 phone coming at the end of the month. In a post on X, Oppo's Pete Lau shows off how the crease is barely visible on the phone. He showed it next to a Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 6 for comparison. Oh, shots fired. Uh-oh.

It actually looks very nice. You can see the crease still, but it is hard to see, is what I would say. So yeah, it does look good. Two of the co-founders of OpenAI are teaming up on a startup. John Shulman left OpenAI for Anthropic five months ago, but he's already leaving Anthropic to join former OpenAI CTO Mira Murady's venture. Murady left OpenAI in September.

That startup has also employed engineers from OpenAI, Character AI, Google DeepMind. So putting together a bit of an all-star cast over there, but we don't know what they're going to do. They have not announced a name or any details about what kind of products they would put out.

Spoiler alert, I bet it's going to have to do with artificial intelligence. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Going out on a limb there, Shannon. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of more AI news, always, chipmaker Zerobus said on Thursday that it is partnering with France's Mistral Systems and helped the company set its recent speed record. Mistral's Le Chat,

Yeah, this is one of the...

companies that has a chance of catching up with NVIDIA. They're playing AMD to NVIDIA's Intel a little bit, at least in the AI space. They are UAE backed. The United Arab Emirates G42 is giving them a bunch of money, but they are based in the US. They're based in Silicon Valley. Those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper in the ongoing stories, follow up on some stuff.

Now, there's a lot of uncertainty about science funding in the United States. Tom talked to Dr. Nikki about what federal science funding means. There's a lot of uncertainty about funding in the United States. On January 27th, the president issued a memo ordering a freeze on all federal grants the next day. Then a judge...

issued a stay after a lawsuit was filed alleging the order violated the law. A short version on that is Congress decides what gets spent, not the president, though there is some latitude, so there's some disagreement. And the judge said, let's stay this order until that's all sorted. The next day, the president rescinded the freeze order, but then a press secretary said it wasn't rescinded.

And the NSF ended up having to cancel a week of grant reviews. Supposedly payments resumed on February 2nd. Dr. Nikki was very kind to explain to us what this means. We're not going to talk about what may or may not happen. But first of all, how does federal funding work? What does this money go to?

Yeah, I think it's helpful to kind of explain what this actually means. So we have two of the big federal funding agencies for science. And again, this affects a lot of other things that aren't science, but I don't know as much about that. So I'm going to stick to the science. We've got the NSF and the NIH. So the NSF is the National Science Foundation, just making sure. They, I like to say they're like the fun animal people in my world. They fund things like conservation.

ecology, biodiversity, freshwater studies, things like this. Then you have the NIH, which is the National Institutes of Health. You can think about this as biomedical research generally, although it stretches quite far. So things from medical trials to drug tests to how does Alzheimer's disease work all gets funded under these programs.

big institutions. And this is where a lot of researchers get their main funding. So if I want to do a grant where I want to study what molecule causes Alzheimer's disease to get worse,

So super broad, not a real thing. I would write a grant application to the NIH asking for multiple millions of dollars to fund my work for the next five years. And this pays for a little bit overhead to my university. So my university asks for 51%.

And the rest goes to me paying my lab employees, buying supplies from tubes to pipette tips to chemicals and publishing papers and everything that comes with that. So it's basically all a lot of I would say the majority of research in the U.S. is funded by these two institutions.

And that is not unusual. Governments around the world do this in order to get an edge, you know, to to spur innovation. A lot of times these innovations turn into private companies and that's that's expected and encouraged. They want this stuff to get to the public eventually. And in fact, the U.S. has an edge because we are one of the countries that spends the most on research funding, right?

at least for now. So what are some examples of where federal funding has ended up bringing us innovations?

Yeah, I figured this would give a good example of like, how does this benefit us? Because sometimes we feel a bit detached from what researchers are doing and how that affects our actual life. So I'll give you some past examples of things that are federally funded either by NSF or NIH. So what we're using right now, the internet was NSF funded. And I'll just go off of a list. And this list was provided by ITIF, which is the...

technology and innovation. And just for that person who's out there going, I thought it was DARPA, the defense people. Yes, also that. There was a lot of- That's also federally funded. There's a lot of different agencies that were involved in the making of the internet. Multiple grants can have three or four agencies involved, of course. This is very, I'm speaking super broadly because you can get really intricate with this stuff. Yeah, sure.

So cell phones were another one. LED lights. We use those all the time. Those were a federally funded grant that caused this innovation. MRI machines. If you've heard of the Human Genome Project, so the project to characterize the entire human genome and learn more about our health and our existence.

And many, many more of these I could go on. I think the biggest thing around this is that there is uncertainty about the funding. You know, as you could tell from the intro, it's been a little chaotic on like who's going to get what, what's going to happen. When funding is disrupted like that, what is put at risk?

Yeah, I'm not going to lie. It's been a stressful 14 or 15 days for scientists. I'm lucky enough that

or unlucky enough that I'm not federally funded yet. So my all of my employees still have jobs. But when people's salaries are put on hold, as you've seen with government shutdowns in the past, it limits availability to carry out research. And it affects more things, not only just us doing our jobs, but things like medical trials. The NIH is the one of the purveyors of all

almost all of the medical trials in the U S. So if you're waiting on one and that gets paused for a week, that might affect someone's life, uh, at that point. Um, but other things that you may not think of are, uh, NSF funded, for example, earthquake measuring systems for the U S if those aren't staffed, then we don't get that data and we can't be there to detect certain earthquakes. So this has really, really wide branching, um,

risks that would happen from pausing something as broad as the money that goes towards science. And for people who aren't in the U S who may think, well, that's your problem, not mine. It also affects international collaborations and stuff too, right? Absolutely. I mean, you know, if the people who are supposed to be doing the science and collaborating internationally, aren't getting paid, then the collaborators can't work with them. Um, and yeah,

like I said, America funds a lot of science in the world and, um, putting a pause on that is, is, uh,

Just blowing my mind a little bit, if I'm honest. Yeah. Well, Dr. Nikki, thank you so much for helping us kind of get a little better understanding of this. I doubt this will be the last time we talk about it. Yeah, we'll have some updates. I'm sure. Because there's just a lot that we were like, should we talk about that? Well, we don't actually know, you know, like what's going to happen or what the details are on things. So we will revisit this. Appreciate you being on this for us. Thank you, Tom. We'll be in touch.

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We end every episode of Daily Tech News Show with some shared wisdom. Today, person is helping us understand. It's actually RW. Sorry about that. I didn't get that part of the template change. Oh, I thought they were trying to be anonymous over here. Yeah, no, you're right. You're right in assuming that. RW, a

Always leaves really nice reviews, sort of like summaries of his impressions of our shows. And for yesterday's show with Shannon and Jason, he wrote AI in 2025. Wow. So many changes. Shannon Morse totally on the case.

Listening on the bus makes it difficult to take notes, but Jason and Shannon totally rock. Interviews are first class too. And then a big old thumbs up emoji. So thank you, RW, for always being there with the responses. Anon Jr. is always good at responding to all of our shows as well. We have some great folks over there on

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This week's episodes of Daily Tech News Show Briefing were created by the following people. Host, producer, and writer, Tom Merritt. Host, producer, and writer, Jason Howell. Co-host, Rob Dunwood. Co-host, Jen Cutter. Co-host, Shannon Morse. Producer, Anthony Lamos. Producer, Roger Chang. Editor, Hammond Chamberlain. Editor, Victor Bognot. Science correspondent, Dr. Nikki Ackermans. Social media producer and moderator, Zoe Detterding. Our

Our mods! Beatmaster, WScottus1, BioCow, Captain Kipper, Steve Guadarrama, Paul Reese, Matthew J. Stevens, a.k.a. Gadget Virtuoso, and J.D. Galloway. Mod and video hosting by Dan Christensen. Music and art provided by Martin Bell, Dan Luters, and Len Peralta. A-Cast ad support from Tatiana Matias. Patreon support from Tom McNeil. Our guests this week included Gary Shapiro, Roger Chang, James McGuff, and Kenneth Coleman. And thanks to all the patrons who make the show possible. ♪

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