Pre-WWDC Special with Gimmy Chu, Matter Bathroom Fan, & Personal Announcement!
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Welcome everybody to another exciting episode of HomeKit Insider. You've got me, your host as always, Andrew O'Hara, joining me this week, which I haven't even decided this yet. I'm deciding it on the spot. I may release this episode like the night before, a little bit early, but joining me for the special episode, pre-WWDC, CEO of Nanoleaf, it is Jimmy Choo. How you doing, man? Pretty good. Pretty good. Good to see you again, and thank you so much for having me on the show.

This is going to be such a fun episode, aside from the fact that we get to talk about, like, Nanoleaf and all those types of things. We have WWDC rumors to kind of talk about, which is why I want to release the episode maybe a little bit earlier than usual. I've got a couple hands-on to walk through. I have a lot of...

on this new emerging Qi 2.2 standard we're going to talk about. And I also wanted to share some personal news with everyone. You and I were catching up before the show, Jimmy, and I said everything has been crazy. Well, there's one thing I didn't tell you that's been extra crazy. Jimmy, I'm going to have a second kid.

I figured that's why it was crazy. I had a feeling. The kids always mix things up. I got a two-year-old at home, hence why if you see in the back, there's a ball pit or a baby cake back there.

So you got to keep the baby cages. Congratulations though. Boy or girl. Thank you. Uh, we are not, uh, saying yet, but I can assure everyone it is very soon. So it is, uh, you know, the estimated release date on this model is set for June. So we're in June. So, uh,

I know. It has been insane. And we've had so much stuff going on. So all the baby prep, getting into all this fun stuff. So I was hoping to do my plan in my head before I got so far behind was to do another Baby Tech Smart Home episode like a month ago and then talk about it then. That would be the big reveal. And then we'll go into new Baby Tech and stuff. But then I got so far behind with everything and scheduling and I've been traveling and

It has been very hard to stay on top of stuff. And I know you and I had to reschedule a couple times between me traveling and your schedules. So it's been nuts. But we are so excited. We're going to have a second little monster running around. How old is your older one? He's about two and a half right now. Oh, wow.

Yeah, two under three is tough. That's going to be interesting. But baby tech is really cool. I'm actually like, you know, I've tried out a whole bunch of baby tech. I get really excited about it. And that's an interesting category.

Well, maybe we'll have to talk after the show and you can give me some more suggestions if you had any extra tech that I didn't have. For Harrison, when he was little, you were like slightly behind us by like nine months or there. Well, I have a six-year-old too, so I know the two-kid life. The two-kid life is – they say it's the worst. After you have two, the third one is sort of like there's a system in place, right? Yeah. But just having two kids, it's the worst.

Yeah. Anyway, sorry to scare you, but... No, it's going to be great. The one thing I will say before we get into actual baby tech on another episode, the Ember baby bottle is so clutch. That thing is the coolest thing. And we got to use it with Harrison for a few months.

There you go. They basically put the same warming tech into a baby bottle. So you can literally just put your, you know, milk or formula, whatever into a little bottle and it heats it up on the go. And it has come in so handy because we could just take powder. It looked like a bag of baby cocaine and a bottle and we could just fill it up with water, heat it up, add the scoops of powder and we could have, you know, formula to feed him wherever we were. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah.

So I'm excited we'll actually kind of have it for the baby too, like the whole time. Because that came out right as Harrison was getting out of bottles. So we got to use it for a couple months was basically it. But yeah, so there's some cool baby tech that has evolved. Even in the last couple years, let alone in six years.

I mean... It's super exciting. But no matter how much tech, you know, the first year of the kid's life, it's pretty crazy. So you're in for a ride. You know this. I know. So whenever... I want to make sure so everyone knows. So when I start to look even more tired and ragged and age five years over the next six months, everyone will know why. Because Apple is releasing crazy stuff for the smart home. We got two toddlers. Podcast is...

Booking up with all these guests. I'm so excited for more people down the line and the real you were able to get on here. So, well, we should just jump into this because I got to hear your thoughts. We've got WWDC. Depending on when you listen to this, it could be in a matter of hours or minutes or it already happened. And you know how wrong we are. But I want to hear your thoughts. Do you have anything on your wish list that you want to see announced at WWDC, especially for the smart home?

For me, I'm more curious about what they're doing with AI. I think that I've been following a lot of what they did when they first did the integration with ChatGPT and I think when they first launched it, I got so excited. I was like, "Okay, let me see what it was." Everyone knew it was going to become a huge part of everyone's lives. And I think now most people in my circle are using it in one way or another.

And I think the big question is, how does that integrate with Apple ecosystem? And I don't think anyone is clear on that. All they know is Siri still isn't where it should be. Yeah. Right. So I think that, you know, as something as simple as that action button or like the little button on the side where you push and hold it and you could get access to Siri, it's such a convenient feature that there needs to be AI built into it.

But I'm not sure if that's something that they're going to talk about during WWDC, but that's definitely what I would be most interested in. What I think is interesting is Apple shied so far away from an actual chatbot-type assistant thing. We heard the rumors that that was a very...

like specific choice. But I do like that Apple is putting AI into like the little spots where you just start to see like the summaries. I really like, I love having those summaries for like a long message or something is really handy. Similarly with things like that we're hearing rumored for, for this update, like automatic translation in messages for your AirPod during a real time conversation and on phone calls, like stuff like that is really cool. And like, yes, it's AI, but it's not,

necessarily build straightforward as AI features. So I like how they're building those things in there. And I do want to see how they use AI, uh,

more for the smart home because we started like that's one of the one of Apple's like first kind of Apple did that already with like the predictive stuff inside a control center it knows what commands or accessories you're going to want to control before you know you do it you swipe it down it's like oh how did it know that's the scene that I wanted to run and it was able to use as on-device models so I'm curious at how that's going to eventually broaden and it may not this year but I do want to see how that keeps continuing.

It would be interesting. It's challenging though. I think, you know, we put a lot of thought into stuff around lighting automation and what kind of intelligence and what the future really looks like. The only thing we can think of is actually using a camera to see what's going on inside the house, how people are moving. If somebody's moving towards the bedroom, if somebody's lying down in bed, then a camera would be able to, you know, give AI the context of what's happening in that space and

But otherwise, a lot of the times that light switch is still the easiest way to control your product, right? So it really depends on the space. And I think that AI needs a lot more eyes and ears. Nobody wants a camera in their house. I think that's the big problem with cameras. So we thought about stuff like heat cameras or like, you know, stuff that you don't really like invade too much privacy.

And obviously there's these microwave sensors or whatever. But I am curious to see how AI goes into the smart home while not being annoying. I do think there's more that can be done with present sensors. Because they seem to be, like you said, those are like the millimeter wave type of...

radar-y sensors, but they can tell things of like person standing versus laying down and falling. They can track your breathing based on your tiny little chest movements overnight. Like they can do all those different things. So like, you know, if they have a general layout of a room and they'd be able to tell people entering, exiting, laying down, doing all this stuff. So I think there's more that can be done with present sensors, but of course, none of that is like really exposed in Apple home other than someone is or isn't in the room.

Yeah, it's also kind of challenging. So we've actually fiddled around quite a bit with these types of sensors. And for example, like I have a furnace just on the other side of this room here. It'll actually detect the fan in that furnace moving. In one of our old offices, we had mice. Sorry, don't judge. It would detect the mice running through the walls.

So these kind of things would actually trigger false positives. And this is where, well, the AI needs to know that these are false positives. And this is where a millimeter wave sensor versus an actual camera will be able to tell you a lot more context. So it's quite more challenging as you go into the problem.

But, you know, no doubt about it. I think AI will be a huge part of people's lives. I think the thing about cameras, too, people are all sensitive about their webcams and they put these like little stickers over it, but they don't realize you got a camera on your phone just constantly following you around. You bring it with you in your pocket. Like, you know, I think Apple did a really good job about talking about privacy. So that was that was definitely a good move on their part. But we'll see how kind of the world evolves to accepting AI into their lives.

Maybe that's why Apple is rumored to be working on a camera because maybe they're the company that people will trust more than some of the third party ones like Ring to put a camera in their house. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, ring Google. Well, OpenAI is going down that path too. I know, I know. Well, there are still other things that I do want to see. I want to see improvements into standby mode. I love standby mode for like the widgets and stuff. I want to see just more types of widgets, Apple's ones, as well as like enhancements for third parties. I want to see, this is something that's been on my list for a while. I don't know if this annoys you, but I want to see improvements

activity-based automations for cameras. Like we just talked about, like Apple's HomeKit cameras are literally just showing the space and it can detect things like a person, a package, an animal, but you can't use those to trigger an automation. You can just do motion. So if a branch moves, that'll count as motion.

and trigger your automation. So I really want Apple to use those AI detection things as triggers for automations. So that way I'm only turning on my porch lights when a person or a car pulls up. I think that would be great. I think we need an actual home category for CarPlay so we can actually have a little bit more control over our accessories from CarPlay interface. Wait, so you want to control your home accessories from your car? Yeah.

I want to be able to have like, even like widgets and stuff, like you're leaving and it says, hey, your door isn't locked.

And be able to see that like right on your home screen, like you're just like you have for like your garage door. I want to have that for like a door lock or something. Just a little more control of that. Like I don't want to have to be able to control the whole home obviously from there, but it would still be nice to be able to get some more alert or statuses on the home. I mean, we're looking at CarPlay Ultra now, which can take over all those spots. It would be great to have like that overview of your home of saying no one is at home right now and this door is unlocked. I think that'd be useful.

And then we need 4K camera support for HomeKit Secure Video. We're still sitting at 1080p. I mean, everything has...

2K and 4K cameras, and then they'll work with home and be dropped down to 1080 resolution. So that's not great. And then more Matter support. Unlock more categories for things that Matter's been supporting, and 1.3 and 1.4, and now no real devices in the latest update, but still. I think 1.5 is coming out soon too, right? Yeah.

The target is this fall for 1.5. From what I've heard, when the CSA was on the show last, I think they... Nothing is ever set with the CSA, which is funny. Like, you know, it all just depends on how member organizations... Like, you guys are a member org, right? Did you have Tobin on the call? Tobin's been on. It wasn't Tobin last time, though. And I'm blanking on who was on last time. It was... What's his name? He works with...

Primarily with the smart things stuff. I think I know who you're talking about. But like typically I chat mostly with Tobin. He's been great. But I think I'm having a better understanding of the challenges of being part of a standards body. It's designed by committee and it's – like Tobin is the – I think he's the CEO or something of the CSA. Yeah.

And I was like, hey, you're the CEO. Can't you just make the call? Like, you know, that's how it works in small companies like us. I know. Right? Like, it's not a democracy. It's a, you know, he's like, that's not how the standard bodies work. I know. I'm like, I'm trying to pull information out of him. I'm like, can you tell me anything? And he's like, it depends on our members. And I'm like, oh, that's fair. But also, I want you to...

to be able to give me some things. - It needs to be a tiebreaker, right? When there's a lot of competing interests that are clearly not wanting, everyone's kind of thinking on behalf of their own platform or their own ecosystem. It's hard to be that person that's like, you know what, I'm gonna just look at all the different variables and make the best decision on how we can move forward for the whole industry.

And this is, you know, you get a similar problem with politics, too. Yeah. But we won't bite in there. Tobin, come back. We'll talk again, Tobin. We'll have more to talk about. Okay, but those are my main things that I hope to see, at least from the smart home perspective of DubDub. There's a lot more. I've been doing so many short-form videos and all these, like, last-minute rumors that have been coming out. So always curious to see what's going to happen, what surprises there will be. What do you think about parent-to-parent?

What do you mean? Pairing for smart home. Because a lot of your wish list is mostly from a user perspective, I want these kind of features. I think a big barrier to smart home is still pairing. And it's pairing, it's moving things from place to place. It's that convenience of associating a device to some type of account.

And I think that like, although like it's a mixture of Matter, I think like a lot of the platform players are like, you know what? I don't want to design our own thing. Let's just use Matter and let's let this committee design all this. But I still think pairing through this QR code thing, it's still not where it should be. And the sharing across platform, the sharing across user accounts, it's a lot, it's too complicated. And this is a challenge where, you know, I think I have some ideas in my head, but it sounds like it's not even...

You know, like I think from a, from a user's perspective, where, where are they? It's a good question. And I feel like it is, it's better than it was right. Cause before, before things were, were a mess and, and,

HomeKit made it simpler, but there's still several onboarding steps to go through. And I think I talked about that when the CSA was on or they brought it up. There were so many steps to onboard a product. And Apple Home does try to simplify that a little bit, like you said, with the QR code. I am excited that they're adding NFCs. And I had this on my list to show.

a couple weeks ago, but I know CyberMod Studio on Twitter showed off the new Matter NFC pairing codes. And I think NFC will help, but it's still effectively the same thing, right? But at least you'll be able to tap it and immediately start that setup process versus having to open the home app, tap the plus, scan a QR code. If you can just tap an NFC and it'll start to do that onboarding, I do think that's

Getting rid of at least one or so steps in there, two steps even, to start that. So that helps. I think NFC is a good start to that. But like you said – They announced that already? Yeah. That's I think a 141, the minor update that came out this spring. Great, great. Yeah, I know that Apple was doing that before. And so few people – okay, how come Nanoleaf hasn't done the NFC and they still stick with the QR codes? Yeah.

We did do the NFC for our shapes product or blocks product lines. Okay. But then for stuff like light bulbs, we didn't have anywhere to put an NFC tag. You know, if you think about a light bulb and then on top of that, like you stick it into a ceiling fixture, you know, we've thought about things like flashing the light a color sequence to like do something around pairing, but then we didn't want to go away from the standards body too much. Yeah. And then also the...

The NFC part was sometimes confusing. Like people didn't know where to tap the phone to the device. Like I think nowadays where people are actually doing payments through NFC, they're starting to understand that it's kind of around here, I think. Yeah. Right. But then you got to like identify where on the device is that NFC.

And then there was some confusion around like, here's a QR code, is that also where the NFC code is? And if you have an NFC, you have to put a different icon on there. There was a lot of confusion.

Which, like, you didn't even know that we had NFC. No, and I have, yeah, I have literally staring at your blue, they're not blue, they're white with those black covers on them, but like the lines I have. Yeah, I think I have that over on this wall there. Yeah, although they're the same color right now.

Yeah. Yeah. But, but like I said, like, you know, like you don't know where that NFC code is and it creates a lot of confusion. So like, I think that the whole pairing process could be better. And the fact that they're standardizing it, it's a step in the right direction. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. But it's a, you know, I think my team has been looking at just leapfrogging over 1.4 and going straight to 1.5. And I think that has more to do with just timing. Like we,

were early adopters like we were in like matter 1.0 then 1.1 and I think we wanted to shoot ourselves when we were in that stage but now I think the overall industry is saying you gotta be at least at 1.4 I'm like we're scared to be early adopters now

Let's wait until 1.5 and let's try and get that out around fall. It aligns with our timelines too. And you'd mentioned to me that there's some new products coming out there on Matter 1.3. There's no point in being on 1.3 if everyone's standardizing everything around 1.4. But one general comment that I'll make is,

In the past year, none of my retail discussions with buyers has been around matter. That's almost not even brought up, which is a little bit weird, right? Like I think two years ago, there was a lot of hype around finally a unifying standard around smart home. But the question goes back to does the consumer care?

I'm having a hard time seeing that. And I think you care because you host this podcast. Your audience cares because they are the early adopters. They're the technophiles. They're the people that are excited about all the cutting edge and smart home. But how do we get to the masses? That's a question where

You know, I don't want to just talk to my circle of people to understand. And this is something that I struggle with. Anyways, I'm just going to throw it out there. You know, I wish we had like questions from your audience that they could throw it our way. And that way we'd have some better insight. I think the, it's hard. I think it is, it's one of those things that people want without realizing that they want it.

If that makes sense, what they want is a device that works, that is easy to set up and they don't have to think about. They can buy it and immediately will work with their platform. And effectively, that's what Matter is delivering. Even if they don't know that it's a matter, they just know they have Apple Home or they have SmartThings. They just want to pick a product and it works. And SmartThings has done a great job.

Because they support, like, the latest version of Matter already. Like, they're so quick to support, like, new device types and all of that. Like, that has been, like, their goal to do. And there's Apple Home that still hasn't fully supported, like, the latest versions of Matter. So there's, like, some devices that work and some devices that don't. Like, appliances don't really work inside of Matter. So, like, that's...

That's always a weird thing. Is it because the appliances are too far ahead? Well, I mean, technically, it's one of those things. Okay, so Matter added support for appliances like stoves and fridges and things like that. So then step two is you have to have either products or apps that support it. You have to have both. And it's like, which one are we going to get first? Are we going to get products that support it or apps that support it?

it. So, so far we have gotten smart things supports them. And then we've gotten a trickling of appliances. Like I know, like I think Bosch has a first matter enabled fridge. You can see the temperature for like the fridge, freezer, crispers and stuff. And you can adjust those temperatures from your phone, you know, with your voice system and all that and see those like in your app, but Apple home then doesn't support it. So it's like you need both of those pieces to work together right now works in smart things, but not an Apple home.

So that's, it's still fragmented, which is weird. Yeah, I know Bosch is very forward-looking when it comes to some of this tech, but it is a little bit of a chicken and egg problem with some of this stuff. And then you start to wonder, like, you know, for us as a product company, I think the big challenge is we try and come up with unique products, right? I'm sure, you know, I think we spoke about our button and switch, and there's a motion sensor built into here.

It's also got a Matter code at the back. Actually, this one was one of our dev samples. I think this one has the QR code. Yeah! But this thing needs to be exposed as like six programmable switches? Yeah.

motion sensor and a brightness sensor. Now, which ecosystem do you know has a single product that supports all of these profiles? None of them. Right. So it's just like, how do you actually like come up with something innovative and expect the platform to really support it? Well, it kind of creates the need for us to still have our own app and create a separate experience, which

It's good for commodity products like a light bulb, but for more unique products it's a little bit challenging. Absolutely. Well, you made a perfect transition. Let's move on to our next topic, which is the Wyze Cam Bulb. Yeah, this is a light bulb with a built-in camera, which is a thing. And it's funny enough, this is not the first time that I have seen one of these.

years ago, I actually did some talks out at CES for a company called Zmodo, which is still in existence and they still sell their torch 360, which is a light bulb with a camera built in. And apparently wise is bringing it back. But this thing is,

Jimmy, this thing looks insane. It looks ridiculous. It's got like a tilting camera at the bottom of a big old light bulb. I pulled it up. It's so cool. I love it. I mean... I love it because it's ugly, but I also love it for the functionality, right? Like the big problem with outdoor cameras is finding power. Yes. And like...

You know, like to wire up stuff to power, especially security cams, you don't want to put it in a place where you could just like, you don't want an outdoor outlet, right? Where you could just unplug it and like a burglar comes, unplugs it and you're screwed. You don't really want to drill through like the exterior of your house. And then, you know, the only places that really have power are these light bulbs. So when originally when I was looking at installing my security cameras, there was these outlets where you screw it into the light bulb socket. Oh yeah.

And then there's an outlet that comes out the side, like a, you know, and then you could screw in the light bulb at the bottom. But this actually just, you know, just, hey, wherever you have an outdoor light, just put this in there. It is ugly though. Like, like it wouldn't pass the light test, which would, you know, like anyone that has this is probably, you know, single guy living in that house. Yeah.

It's not the prettiest, but it's $50 for a security camera. Why is they... They do it cheap. They do it cheap, but it is... The wife test is the part where it won't work. Yeah, and I feel like you also have to worry about

with living with somebody else of them just killing the light switch and then they turned off not only your light bulb but also the security camera at the same time. So it's like that's one of the ones you're going to come in there's going to be a piece of electrical tape going to be holding up the light switch. Every house that had hue bulbs in the early days before they started coming out with actual switches and everything and fix that. But it is something. I like the boldness of

Them doing it. Yeah. Why is... I do have one of their cameras that I use as like a travel baby cam. And there's certain things that I really like about their ecosystem. One of the things is just the price. They have a smart bulb plus a camera built in with shipping for like 50 bucks. Like, you know, the profit margin on that is like slim to none. Yeah.

One of our, one of my best friends, like he was so against smart home devices eventually. And I'm like, dude, I can, I can help you. I can give you recommendations, whatever you want to do on like ones that are like the most secure. Cause he was like, so against even having like a smart thermostat. Cause he was worried about being spied on. But then with his kids, he was like, I gotta have like some sort of security cameras, like on the outside. I'm like, okay, I can give you all these recommendations. And he was like, I just got the wise ones. They were so cheap. I'm like,

There you go. I mean, I'm trying to, I could give him so many suggestions on different ones and different ecosystems and all this sort of stuff. And he just went with Wise because it was the cheapest one. And, you know, they sell them right at the front there, you know, Home Depot and stuff. So it was like done and done. They're so cheap. And I think their model is, you know, relatively cheap subscriptions as well, which for hardware companies is like a dream. Yeah.

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We also have Shopify. Like, who doesn't know about Shopify and how amazing it is? I mean, seriously, we can talk about it for the rest of the episode, but I know Jimmy and I got stuff to talk about. But I'll give you the high-level points as always. So first up, it's great for customers. Customers love shopping with sites that use Shopify. It just makes everything easy, especially that whole checkout process, which is so important to, you know...

making money. But customers love it because they recognize that checkout process. Whenever you go to a website that has that Shopify checkout, you trust it. You know it. It has you use two-factor authentication for ShopPay. You can literally just get a code texted to you, put it in, and you can check out within literal seconds. It's so fast and easy. Or there's built-in support for things like Google Pay and Apple Pay. And

Once you put an order in, it gets kicked over into the shop app where you can track it from, you know, placing it to fulfillment to shipping and delivery and leaving a review afterward. And so many people can, I had no idea how many people knew about the shop app for shopping, but you can use it to buy things. My wife just got me a whole bunch of Father's Day present through the shop app, which was great. So like I have all these new clothes that she was able to get huge discounts on by using the shop app. And it was like,

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You know, have all this stuff calculated like in Shopify. So just handles all this extra legwork so you don't have to. You can use the same process that so many other companies have. Allbirds, Rothy's, Brooklinen, Nomad, Moment, 12 South, all these companies. You Shopify for a reason. So definitely go ahead and check it out. Their information is linked inside of the show notes for you. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash homekit. Go to shopify.com slash homekit.

HomeKit, that's all lowercase, shopify.com/homekit. Okay, let's talk about another new device that's coming out. I'm pretty excited by this one. It looks pretty cool. So this is the

I don't know what's, okay, it's called the Orion Smart Bathroom Exhaust Fan from AI. And what is notable here, it is the very first Matter-enabled exhaust fan for the bathroom. It uses the, not the recent, the most new, but it has Matter 1.3, which is what came out last spring. So it's been about a year before we started seeing some devices that are including Matter 1.3. Okay.

They have a bunch of cool functionality in this thing. So adjust airflow between 110 and 160 CFM. Operates very quietly, but can also go louder as it gets ramped up. Has full lighting in there, so customizable lighting temperatures from 2700K to 6500K.

It can monitor the humidity levels and will turn the fan on and off based on humidity levels, including a very low humidity level compared to some of the other ones that are out there and automatic. So it's got even like lower detection rates. 16 million RGB ambient color options. The real time humidity monitoring, as I mentioned, and all those should work through matter as well.

And it has a wall mountable remote to give you physical control in the bathroom so you can still turn this thing on and off manually if you want to. And then lastly, Jimmy, because if we didn't have enough between humidity sensors, exhaust fans, RGB lights, it also has a built-in Bluetooth speaker.

So this thing is coming in at $265.99. And this was just on their press release, so this isn't exclusive to us. But Orion05, which is O-R-E-I-N-0-5. And I think that's just for Amazon. Again, it's just on their press release, which you linked in the show notes and stuff. So you guys can check it out. What do you think about this? I think bathroom fans are an interesting category. We haven't seen really smart ones in a long time.

So we actually took a look at this category for a little while. We were actually playing with methane sensors and stuff. We wanted to make it so that if it smelled poop, it would automatically turn on. Because I think nobody wants to control their fan with their phone, right? I think the reality is when it smells, when there's humidity, you want it on. When it doesn't have any of that, you just kind of want it off. And actually, by code, every...

in America is supposed to have one. So this volume is huge. It seems like Orion, they put all the bells and whistles in there and they also added in a physical remote, which is pretty clutch too. I think there's, you know, the best bathroom fans that I've used are the ones that have the turn on for 10 minutes. It's like, ah, I'm going in for a doozy. Like, let's turn this thing on for 10 minutes. That's about all I need. Yeah.

I like the, we have, like our house up in Michigan has just a, the fan is only on a timer. It's literally like a little, an old school, you just twist it however long you want. So if you're hopping in the shower or whatever, you just rotate it around to where you want and that's how long, and you can literally hear it clicking down. Just tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

and slowly eventually goes off. But I love that, not having to turn it on and off manually. Timers are great for them. And I know there are smart ones out there, but there wasn't really anything in the Apple Home space that did it. And now we actually have one that would theoretically work. I'm very curious if this would even show up in Apple Home because of all through matter. But you don't need it. The point of a smartphone

But the point of a smart fan... But it's not just the... It's not even just the fan now, because you also have the light built in there, too. So... Yeah, okay. You got a point with the light. I mean, I should have known this was a category you were looking at of just... Because as soon as I saw those RGB lights, I'm like, this is like a gamer's...

a bathroom fan or something. It's going to have light. It's going to have music syncing or something. And I did then... The music is a big feature. People like the Bluetooth speaker in the bathroom. I know, and I... That's pretty... I hate it. It is such a big thing that I have never... I like having music in the bathroom, but I'd rather have a HomePod Mini, which isn't necessarily the best option for a bathroom. But...

But I always thought it is so clunky to have to get the ones that are built into your shower head or the iDevices one that launched ages ago or ones like this. I don't want to have to get in there and turn it on and pair it every time I come into the bathroom. What about Alexa or something like that? Well, I'm not putting one of those in my house. And then I'm with a HomePod. I'd rather have a HomePod mini in there. I'm all about that.

It's the Bluetooth ones that I'm against. I hear you on that. I think when we were looking at it, we loved the idea of a voice assistant one, and we were looking at which platforms supported. I think at the time that we were looking at it, Google did allow third parties to do Google Home versions of speakers. And now a lot of them, they started moving away from that because I guess they couldn't control their ecosystem enough.

So, but I think, you know, at the end of the day, like this is a great product. I think a great bathroom fan would be one that you just don't have to control. It turns on when it's needed. It turns off when it's not. The light aspect of it, you know, like actually I have...

My bathroom lights on a motion sensor. And as soon as there's motion, it'll turn on. If there's no motion, it'll turn off. And I have this around the house. But the one in my bedroom, I still physically turn off the switch in the middle of the night because I don't want it to turn on in the middle of the night. And I want it to be as dark as possible. And my house isn't that dark. So I'm still able to find my way now that I'm approaching my midlife.

Unfortunately, the trips to the bathroom are more frequent. I'm just kidding. Well, let's go on. Let's talk about some standards because I find this interesting. And we've already talked about your, I guess, struggles, annoyances with early versions of the matter standard. And I have to do more research around this because it was only kind of revealed this week.

Qi 2 and MagSafe. So first up, the thing that came out was there's a leaked new Apple MagSafe charger, just Apple's official puck, that is designated as 50 watts and supporting Qi version 2.2. If anyone's been following the standard or listening to the show long enough, you know the current version of Qi is basically Qi 2.0.

And that's what gave us the 15 watts of wireless power. Then Apple came out and said, "Hey, we have a special version of our MagSafe puck that can do 25 watts of power." And it is using, you know, just MagSafe. And no third parties could do this. Now, we're seeing these little bits and pieces of Qi 2.2 that is still, as far as I've been able to find, has not been officially announced.

And now we're left with this little weird fragmented space of we have MagSafe at 15 watts for third-party MagSafe, 25 watt for Apple's MagSafe puck, third-party Qi 2 is 15 watts, and now we have Qi 2.2, which is maybe 50 because Apple's puck is going to be 50, so that could be showing up on the iPhone 17. But I feel like this is getting very confusing now

with these standards. I mean, how do you even... Just coming from an accessory maker point of view, how do you even try to roadmap this out? If you're making a charger, you know, I don't even know what I would be doing right now, like, other than...

spinning in circles of which version is coming out, which version is out right now. Obviously they're going to have early knowledge of some things as being part of the WPC, which develops the Qi standard, but this just seems like you're constantly fighting with these standards on what is newest and what is actually going on.

Apple is notoriously secretive about things, as you probably know. But this is exciting. 50 watts on a wireless charger? I know you're talking about iPhone 17, but I'm thinking this is the new form of a MacBook charger. Oh. Or iPad? Because the new M1 MacBooks are... Yeah, the new MacBooks, I don't think they need more than 50 watts. Especially back in the day. I think around a pretty...

Yeah, they're so energy efficient. And sure, maybe charging time is a little bit longer, but they probably don't care. Like I bring around this charger with me. It's a Ugreen charger. It's 65 watts. So it's not that far off. And I use this for my phone and I use this for basically my MacBook. I have a Qi 2 charger on my desk. I'll be honest, I don't use it often. It's just easier to plug it in. But I think the Qi 2.2, I'd be more excited about the different use cases for it.

Right? Like, you know, iPads, just charging stations. Like, imagine, like, you have a Qi 2.2 charge station just built into your desk, and then you put your laptop on there, and then all of a sudden it's like you've just removed the need for cables. I mean, I have a desk pad. I don't know if you do, but I have a ton of desk pads, and many of them actually already have Qi 2 chargers built in for, like, your iPhone on the side. So now they just got to, like, do two. Yeah, 15 of them are for the physical part.

The 15 watts is way too slow, though. Like, the 15 watts, just, like, first of all, it's a little too slow. So, like, why don't I charge my phone through the Qi 2? It's a little slow, and plus, like...

I have a little phone case, you know, I have one of these like Moffat ones. I don't want to take it off. Anyways, like a little, little like, but on a MacBook, you don't have that problem. So, so that's actually like super exciting. Not only that, man, I don't think that they'll have, think outside of even your tech stuff, like in your like office, I'm excited, which I know that WPC already has a good vertical for this, but I'm imagining like appliances in like the kitchen and stuff that can be running off of something like this.

Yeah, I just watched a YouTube video about basically they created like a huge magnetic field around the table that basically just fluctuates back and forth. And then you could charge all sorts of devices. You could have a desk lamp, you could have like wireless speakers, you could potentially have a monitor. But I think with G2.2, you could really create that like wireless experience.

So it's more so around the power, right? 15 watts, it's not enough oomph. But 50 watts? That's more than a 3x increase. Yeah, that's a big jump. That's a big jump. So I know these standards. I know that Apple has been pretty involved in Qi 2. I think the industry was really excited to have them kind of

And I don't know the full history of it, but I believe they came out with, what was it called, MagSafe first? And then they brought in all that technology and gave it to the industry saying, hey, let's turn this into a standard. Everyone else, you guys build these chargers. We don't want to build chargers anymore. Just help us sell our phones. And I know, and we've talked so much about this wireless charging, but I think, like you said, even like that desk situation, I think that's going to start expanding to...

Our smart devices, and I know Jen Tui did a whole thing where she had like an installation in her ceiling that would allow it to charge her smart lock. And you never had to charge your smart lock again. So imagine having these sensors around your home, motion sensors, contact sensors, door locks, shades that you never had to charge because you had wireless power. I mean, that goes beyond a magnetic puck. But that desk situation where there's no wires to charge anything, we're getting closer and closer to that like wirelessly powered smart home.

Yeah, it'd be pretty cool. It'd be pretty cool. I am pretty excited about it. I didn't realize they were going to get to 50 watts. But the whole idea of wireless power, to some degree, it's not the most energy efficient way of doing it. That is true. And regular Qi was notoriously terrible. And what always got me fueled up, as you guys can tell, was that people never realized there was no...

Real kind of like dialogue around this but with like Qi if your phone was not perfectly centered on a Qi charger your speed would drop by half or more and your efficiency was even worse because you weren't dead center and MagSafe fixed just that whole alignment thing with those magnets like out of the gate and then they improved the efficiency beyond that so now I think it's like

I want to say 87% or something higher is, like, the efficiency of MagSafe now. And I don't know if that changes with Qi 2.2 and, like, the newer versions because they say, quote, like, greater efficiency. Yeah. So, like, that's a lot better than it was. The closer together the devices are, the better.

Yeah, it's getting better and better. And I think the whole magnetic kind of like coupling of the devices really, really helped. So, you know, I'm excited to see what they're coming up with for Qi 2.2. If it's really 50 watts, oh, that's cool. And, you know, I'm not sure if you're aware, but we launched a couple USB products in the market, and it does offer the ability to be like a dock. So

So one of the devices I bought was this USB power tester. It's a digital tester. So when you plug it in, you can see how much power is actually going through that USB cable and USB-C cable in particular. And so you can see how many volts, how many watts, and different devices have different specs on it. So it's really cool because even a product like this that has the Qi charger at the top, they have the AirPod charger in the back, and then they have this silly little screen. Sorry, it's a little silly.

It's cool. Is it the green one? Does it have a smiley face on it? Because I think those are just fun. They are silly, but they're fun. But it is fun. It is. It is exactly that one. I bought it because of the smiley face. I knew it. You're right. But it takes power away. Right?

Right? Like it's drawing power away from the device. And, you know, I'm using my other charger to turn this thing on. Anyways, but my hope is that it actually has a lot of efficiency because like that whole vision for like wireless power all over your house, what people don't realize is, you know, instead of using like

like 50 Watts to drive 50 Watts, you're using like 150 Watts to drive 50 Watts. And then all of a sudden it's just like, we're, we're promoting waste, which is not necessarily a good thing for sure. Well, before we move on from it, this, this is my theory, Jimmy on Chi two and Chi 2.2. I think so. Apple's like the iPhone 16 line, it supports Chi two at 15 Watts and then Apple's specific mag safe puck at 25. Okay.

My gut is telling me the iPhone 16 is Qi 2.2 and that's how Apple is doing it. Because Apple is developing it first then contributing to MagSafe and that's what I believe the WPC told me when I was talking to them at CES. They told me Apple is going to basically innovate and then we will just add that incorporated in to Qi 2. So we'll just take Apple's MagSafe and put it into Qi 2.

So I think Apple has done... They basically developed faster Qi. They did Qi 2.2, put it into their MagSafe puck and the iPhone 16 first, and then with the iPhone 17, they will...

you know, bring out the 50 watts. But what that means, this is the hope right here, I think we're going to get third-party Qi 2.2 chargers that will give you 25 watts on the iPhone 16 line. I think we're going to get that in the next six months. It'll be all over CES probably of Qi 2.2 chargers with 25 watts of power for the iPhone 16. And then we'll have even more power for the 17 series. I hope it's 50.

Because 50 will be... I think it'll be 50 on the 17s. I think the 16s will be limited to 25. Because I think if Apple could have done 50, they would have. Like, for last year. But I think for phones...

It doesn't matter. You're adjusting your charge time by whatever. Most people just charge their phone once at nighttime. A lot of people. I don't know. Obviously, I'm not your average person. I fully realize that. Right now, the big thing is short-form content. We're going crazy. So I'm still doing just as much long-form video where I'm demoing things on my phone. But then I have three phones sitting on my desk that I'm shooting short-form content with because I've got to film myself. I've got to film my phone.

Um, and then I got to worry about extra little things in between. So like I'm, I'm using my phone battery a lot more than your average person for sure would. So what I need is to be able to do a quick charge. I don't need to get to a hundred, but I need to get, you know, I need to get from 25 to like 80 as quick as possible.

That is specifically what I need. You need to use a cable. Even 25-watt MagSafe or Qi 2 is just not enough. Dude, I don't plug in my phone ever. I've plugged in my phone to charge like three times since Apple added USB-C. I will do a test and show you how many watts are coming out from the cable versus how many are coming out. I did a video that I actually went in.

and I measured the charging times from zero to 100% and I checked the battery at 10% intervals. And MagSafe was shockingly close to behind the cable. Like shockingly close.

I don't believe it. I'm going to do the test now. But please, let's continue. Okay. Okay, let's go. I want to talk about a quick hands-on real quick. Then we're just going to come back to Nanoleaf. So Satechi launched two new Find My devices. Well, actually, they launched four of them, but two of them are more boring. So I guess I'll give them the other two that are boring is a keychain, a little tag thing, and a card.

Pretty typical. We've seen a lot of those, so good on them for adding those because they already have passports and other things like that. Now we're getting a couple more unique style devices and I think these are very cool. The first up is an actual luggage tag. This is not the first luggage tag I've seen. The other one is from Nog. Nog. And it is, I have in the video, it's the Nog Scout. But it's like this colorful little plastic tag that goes in your luggage. But it looks more like a tracker. It looks like a security device.

The Satechi one, look at this thing, Jimmy. It looks literally just like a regular, you know, luggage tag. You know, it's focusing my face on the video, but there we go. It just looks like your standard leather slash faux leather luggage tag that you would buy at a travel shop. It's got like a little like a watch band style like loop that goes on. And the bottom is all just black fake vegan leather. And it's magnetic, right?

Is it rechargeable? Oh yeah. So it's magnetic and it opens up so you can see on the inside and there's a button and a light along the top so you can see when it's charging and a little door. They include two little slips of paper you can fill out with your information on them to put it inside. But it is also wirelessly rechargeable. So you just throw this on top of a Qi 2 charger or a Qi charger, MagSafe charger, and you can charge this thing up.

I think this is super cool. I have not seen like a, really a luggage tag with find my built in that just looked so like in place. This looks exactly like a normal luggage tag. So I like this a lot. That's pretty cool. By the way, uh, I did verify your thing. So it is using about 15 Watts to charge my phone, even through USB. Yeah. See, you were right. It's about the same time. I know. Okay. Okay. Um,

Sorry to fail you. I do like this Hatchies stuff. It's really great. This one's really cool too. I have never seen a product like this. This is the first one that I know of. It is a glasses case. My camera just wants to focus on my face. Everyone watching, I'm sorry. But it is literally one of those foldable glasses cases. So it's like a triangle when it's all opened up. It's still the same vegan leather. It's a techie logo on the top. But it opens up.

I got like my Maui gyms inside, but it's big enough to hold like a set of like oversized women's glasses. It like folds in all magnetically like origami and goes completely flat.

So you can toss this tiny thing in your bag. So what I love about this, especially for travel, you can protect your sunglasses like when you're on the flight or something in your bag. But then you have your sunglasses on. Something like this is so small, it can just stick into a pocket anywhere and still come with you. And you can pop it open whenever you need to use your sunglasses case. And as you assumingly all know, it supports Find My. Right there on the top, Jimmy, you can see the circle for wireless charging. Yep.

I'm going to be the devil's advocate here. As a guy that wears glasses, I have never tried to look for my glasses. Sunglasses. That's fair. Well, I don't wear sunglasses because I wear glasses. But maybe you're right. But like I never – like usually it's like find my glasses is important because first of all, I'm blind without my glasses. If one of my kids runs away with my glasses and I have no idea where they are, then I'm literally like useless. You lost your glasses and your kid at the same time.

Usually they're being buttheads and they ran away with my glasses and hid them under a couch somewhere. I agree. I totally understand that, especially for regular glasses, which is why I think this is marketed specifically as sunglasses case. Because for me, it's like I travel and I take my sunglasses, but I don't always put them on.

Am I walking around New York City? I'm going to have them on, but when I get back to the hotel room, I'm taking them off. I'm not going to have them for the night or anything like that, or they'll go in my bag. And when you're doing that, you can track your bag as well as your sunglasses at the same time. I think that is really cool. It's perfect for sunglasses. I agree. People that don't wear glasses wear sunglasses because they think it's cool. When I don't need to wear glasses, I don't know. You don't have a set of prescription sunnies that you switch into? No.

I don't. Because, like, this already blocks UV light. So it's just, like, what am I really blocking? Is it just I'm blocking color from going to my eyes? Or sun, because it's bright out and you're staring into the sun. As long as the UV's not there. I don't know. I do have more light-sensitive eyes. So I do, like, you know, I come outside and I'm like, it's so bright, I need to shade this. So, like, I do need to, like...

put sunglasses on and I know even my wife, she wears glasses a lot and she got a prescription Sunny so that she could switch into sunglasses when she needed to.

There's those glasses that turn dark in the sun. I don't know. Okay. So Harrison has glaucoma, right? Yeah. Like he came out with glaucoma. So he is extremely light sensitive because he's like expanded corneas and the eye damage that has happened. So we have tried a bunch of different things with him and he has regular sunnies and those work better than the transitions that

Now, the transitions have gotten better. They are very fast at getting dark and coming back, like compared to even a couple years ago. They are much better. But they don't get nearly as dark as actual sunglasses do. So he still switches a lot to sunnies in the car or something when it's really bright because it still bothers his eyes. So we're still to the point like we want to get him actual prescription sunglasses to go alongside his regular glasses. He's probably really cool looking. He is so cool looking. Yeah.

The little kids in sunglasses are the cutest thing. And little kids in hats. I just love a little kid in a hat. Obviously, I'm a person who wears hats. It's like they grow out of them in like a year and you're like, oh, all right, another hat. For sure. Okay, let's wrap this up. Let's talk a little bit about Nanoleaf. I don't take too much more of your time up. What's been going on? You guys just got through some product launches. You had new garden lights. You had...

I think there's something what else you what else if you guys want to tell me in the world and Analeaf How's everything been going? We've been doing a lot. So I think like two years ago. We spent a lot of time on Matt and poop detecting bathroom fans really took We were looking into that category. Yes, but I think it took away from what customers really cared about which is additional products more products in the category like they want RGB lights everywhere and

And so this year we really focused on that. And probably the most exciting for us is we just launched into Walmart. So we launched into, I think, over 2,500 stores in Walmart across the U.S. And for us, that was a little bit of a... It's a little bit of a change in how we look at smart lighting and how we look at our business. First of all, the whole economy has been rough. People's, like, dispensable income or whatever, it's gone down to, like, nothing. I don't know. I was in...

I was in Las Vegas for CES and I felt very, very poor. Like I went to get like a carne asada fries. It was like over $20 for fries, right? And I'm like, how are people living right now? So, you know, like a lot of the things that we've been thinking about is like, how do we actually create products that are a lot more affordable?

So, you know, we came out with the pegboard desk dock and let me see if I can actually show you what that looks like. I think I showed you guys. I got one too. We got, look, twinsies. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's, I believe we have it out for either 50 or $60. And for us, that was like a, that was our way of like innovating at the sub $100 mark.

We launched a screen mirroring light strip that goes behind your computer.

And that one was also around that $50 mark. And so for us, it was like we really wanted to create innovations at a low cost. Like it's always that tradeoff, right? The more unique you want something, you want to pack in all these features. You want to pack in hardware in there. You want to pack in NFC codes and all this stuff. But that all increases the cost. And then we need to make sure that we balance everything out. So actually earlier this year, we did a massive price reduction across the board just because

The world is getting poorer, unfortunately. So like our panel products, I think that back in the day, it used to be about $199. That was kind of our standard price for a starter kit. We reduced that price to about $150. And then we reduced it even further for Walmart for like a five pack. So like our goal was to get it to about $99 at Walmart. But then the tariffs came in. So the trade war kind of shook everything up a little bit because...

And also there's so much uncertainty, which I'm sure anyone that's following the good old Trump news will see uncertainty all over the place. But, you know, I don't want to get on Trump's bad books because then he might go full Elon Trump on me. So, you know, I'm Canadian. Well, actually, I'm a dual citizen, unfortunately. So I'm one of the few Canadians that would be happy about being in the 51st state, unfortunately.

But anyway, all right. So going back though, so we ended up working a lot on innovations under $100. And this was for this launch into Walmart. You saw two of them. We also released a smaller pack of our blocks. And for those, sorry, my house is a little bit crazy.

But we have a four kind of square combo pack. Also, we were striving for that $100 mark. We're still playing around with pricing in Walmart. But overall, that was a really exciting launch for us.

We also expanded into different categories. So we have a red light therapy face mask that we launched earlier this year in January. And that actually did really, really well for us. I think the overall market is being much more educated about the benefits of red light therapy. And surprisingly to us, when we did a survey of our customers, it was actually mostly men that were buying it.

That was a huge surprise because our marketing team was really concerned. It's just like our audience, our mailing list and all that stuff is majority male. It's gamers, it's smart home lovers, mostly male. And I thought, okay, well, this face mask, it's along the same lines of the technology that we build. We source some of the best LEDs. We work with some of the best factories on developing lighting products. So this to us was, hey, we could actually get the perfect wavelength of light for red light. This is no problem for us.

And then we thought that our challenge was going to be to market to women because we just didn't have that as an audience. But it was actually men going out and buying it. So overall, that has been a growing category for us. And that's been really exciting for us. And, you know, I use it at nighttime, too. I'm not a very ritualistic guy, but I...

My rule of thumb is to use every single product that we innovate on and we create. That's why you look younger than I do. That's what it is, Jim. Right before the episode, we were just talking about our ages. You look younger than me and you're not. It's because of that mask. That's what it is.

It might be. I'll send you one. Well, it was funny. I got that PR and I show that to Faith and she's like, that looks really nice. And she's like, how much is it? And she's like, holy crap, that's a lot less than a lot of the red light therapy masks that I had been researching. So I was like, I know nothing about this. But she was very impressed with the price point and thought it looked really cool. Yeah.

And that was a lot of the feedback that we actually got about the product. So that was a new category that we broke into. We have a lot of new categories that we're getting into as well. So you saw the garden light that we launched. So this one was interesting because we had the challenge where we had a really cool looking outdoor garden light. But the problem with garden lights is it's outside. It's also outside, doesn't have a lot of power.

And like, you know, what is the smart feature that people want for their garden lights? I think the biggest thing is they want it to turn on when it's dark and turn off when it's bright. Do they really care if it's connected to your phone? Do they care more about that or do they care more that you can put it anywhere in your garden?

And then like the power consumption of Wi-Fi, you know the power consumption of Wi-Fi and also the range of Wi-Fi. It's hard to get outdoor Wi-Fi signals to work consistently unless, you know, you're a smart home nerd that has like some crazy $600 router, which you probably do. It's the Eero Wi-Fi outdoor router. It's great. I love it. Okay. I also have the Eero router. It is great. And our previous chief product officer now works for Eero. Nice.

I'm a big fan of their company. Okay, so I actually had a couple questions specifically around the garden light. So I really like it. I like the idea of it and everything. And I really like the solar. Because I just got some new ones from Govee as well. And they're cool. They're nice. But I'm like, I don't have enough outdoor plugs to do all these things. Like we talked about, we have cameras. I already had some huge spotlights that were out there. There's too many things just to keep plugging in on the outside of the house. So I'm like, man...

Plug it into your light socket. There we go. I just need to run an extension cord into one of those tree things that plug into a light socket. Done. That'll pass the wife test.

But I like them. I'm like, I just too many things to plug in. So what really did appeal to me was the solar power, but I do hate not being able to control it from my phone. I'm 75% sure I've lost the remote already, Jimmy, I have them in my garden and I'm pretty sure I've already lost the remote. So I guess they turn, you know, on and off with the light and stuff, but like I set the timer, but now I can't change the color or anything until I find the remote again.

So, like, I do wish that I had... We will have... I understand your concern. Wait one year. Well, what my follow-up was going to be is, of course, Wi-Fi is a lot. What about Thread? I mean, I know I'm, again, okay. We have some ideas around that. And to full transparency, it's more so related to, like, the technology we built for our lights, the lightweight functionality. So the controller itself, like, does it make sense for, like...

We're trying to balance out costs, too. So one of the good things about our solar garden light, I think we launched it for like $40. They were very affordable, yeah. $40, $50. It's very affordable, right? So we want to get that affordability. We want to get that reliability. And I hear you. The remote, not my favorite thing. But it was the tradeoff of being able to launch this thing and understanding whether customers care more about...

Having a product that was cheap and affordable and that just is solar powered versus like spending two years to develop something without that certainty that People would even like this product we we we sold our initial batch I think we have some left not a lot left after we sell through that that whole batch we will Will probably pause on this until the future. I

And it's mainly to address some of the things that you're talking about. But the biggest problem is, is it going to be as cheap? I like the price point a lot. You know, Dan Turk, when him and I talked about it, did the hands-on, like he also loved the price point. Like he thought that was crazy. But I just, I would like to have Thread because now we're getting a lot of outdoor smart tech and a lot of stuff is starting to act as like Thread routers.

So we're getting like my Aqara G5 Pro camera is a thread router that's outside. So that's extending my thread network. So now I can actually use that to jump to my sensor in my mailbox to get an alert when my mailbox is opened and closed. I get you. I have my own concerns around thread, which is how massive is the adoption right now of thread? Yeah.

Yeah. And how much is the awareness of thread? So anyone that's listening to your podcast, that I'm not concerned about. I'm concerned about the guy walking through Walmart. He won't even know what thread is. He'll take it home. If he doesn't have a thread border router, he's going to be like, what the heck is this? Which is, yeah, it's hard. That's the part that's a little bit challenging. So it's just like, how do you solve that problem for the masses?

But anyways, I think overall, I do think that we have a solution in place. It'll just take some time to build out so that it could appeal both to your audience as well as that person walking through Walmart. Okay. Sorry, knocked down my water. I have another product idea for you. This is like a Shark Tank episode now. I've got another pitch for you. We're talking about a low-cost item that I think would make sense and I'd like to see in the actual smart home world because we don't really have something like this yet yet.

I want to see under bed lights because I know you can do this with a regular light strip, but I think it would make sense to be able to incorporate that into a motion sensor and be able to do it nice because there's a ton of these on Amazon. And like we literally just bought some of these for my grandma because that way when she got out of her bed in the middle of the night, she could see the floor and stuff. And I'm like, hey, I love those. And I have them on our website.

our mattress that we have, like the bed holder thing has built in smart lights that are really cool. But I'm like, I'd love to be able to control these with the home and sync them with some of the other things. So it'd be really nice to see like a, you know, a Nanoleaf version of that. I feel like the price point wouldn't have to be crazy and you could incorporate, you know, matter as well as, you know, motion sensing that you have like built into your remotes. That's a really good idea. I think the easiest thing to do would just be add the motion sensor directly to the controller of the light strip. Yeah,

and then just let a person put the controller on the floor somewhere and make it so that when they're lying in bed, you can program the amount of time that it takes to turn off. And then that's a great idea. It's a great idea. Welcome, Jimmy. So I've always wanted to have the motion sensing directly on our controllers. I remember years ago we talked about that, I think, right? Literally, it's been like, it had to be five or six years or more

and you had them secretly in there and it was like a beta feature, right?

We did, we did, but it started messing with people's 5G Wi-Fi networks, so then we took it out and canceled that. But then now I think with the PIR sensors, they're much cheaper, they're good enough for something like use case like you're talking about, making it cost-effective is probably one of the most important features. We could put in a radar sensor, but if it increases the cost by like...

even $30, it's too much for that customer. So I think that that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I think, I think the big challenge for us is like prices are going down and down and down and people are more and more broke. I don't know. What's, what are your thoughts in the U S? Oh yeah. Um, we, we, it's a constant talk between faith and I it's, I mean, it's everything. It's even something as simple as like, I, I lit my blood is coffee and Coke zero, like no joke. And of course coffee, uh,

We're not growing that here in the U.S. And even though Coke manufactures its syrups in the U.S., a lot of aluminum gets imported. And even this week, Trump had announced, or last week, Trump had announced that there's going to be new 50% tariffs on aluminum, which means pop cans are going up. And it's already like regular, like a case of Coke at full price is like $10 to $12 now for just 12 cans. For 12 cans. Yeah.

12 cans. It used to be like $5. So now we have to really watch for a sale. And then when there's a good sale, we will stock up and get like six cases of Coke because it's so prohibitive to buy it at a regular point. And even my wife was watching the news on Friday and they had a whole segment about like no one's going out to eat anymore. Like they're talking about how some of the places up in Cleveland are struggling because people going out to eat, it's not happening as much because it's so –

I mean, even the day that I went to Arby's, we just got two roast beef sandwiches, like two roast beef sandwich combos or something, and it was over 20, it was like 20-some dollars. I'm like, holy crap. They used to sell these sandwiches like five for 10 or something, and now two of them and two fries and two medium drinks that are now smaller was more than $20. It's even too expensive just to go to eat at a fast food restaurant. So yeah, there's a lot of just...

basic things that have gotten so much more expensive. So it's definitely being felt. So I think that, not to get political, but I think these kind of inflationary times or basically like the economy going down, it just continues to spiral where the more broke people are, the less they spend, the less they go out to eat, the more broke other people are. And it just keeps going down until it gets to the point where

Every company or every restaurant has cut way too many people and they just need to hire one more person. And then that person gets a job and another person gets a job and then all of a sudden it spirals back up. So I believe that that's kind of the cycle that we're going to see. And in the meantime, for a company like us, I think you asked, how are we doing? We're really trying to adapt to the times. And that's part of the reason why we're pretty committed to that.

actually dropping down our prices and innovating at the lower price points. It's not impossible. It's just it's challenging and it takes time.

So that's a lot of what we've been trying to do. And that's why you'll see some products that are coming out that are at the lower price points. But at the same time, our heart and soul is around doing things that are a little bit unique and different. So it's a balancing act between these two things where we're trying to tread carefully here. Yeah.

I love it. We've been talking for a while, so thank you so much for joining. I feel like that's a good spot to end it on some hopefulness on price drops, on the teases of new products to come. When you launch the new smart bed lights, you'll come back on the show and tell me how popular they've been. We have some new categories beyond smart lighting that we're doing too, but I haven't been able to tease too much on that. Come on, Jimmy. No one's here to police you. You can just say things.

Later on this year, once we have a clear launch plan, you'll be one of the first to hear it. I love it. Thank you so much, Jimmy. It's been a great episode. We've talked about a bunch of new products, hands-on, baby's coming, WWDC stuff. It's been great. Thank you again, as always, Jimmy. I think everything we talked about on the show, I'll try to link down in the show notes for everyone. If you want to check them out, whether it's the Satechi smart sunglasses case or if you want to check out the new –

Nantaleaf Garden Lights. Well, they've got a few of those left still in stock. So, yeah. While supplies last. I'll put those down there too. Perfect launch timing for spring and summer. So check those out. We'll see how we do at WWDC. I'm very excited for next week's episode. I'll talk about everything that comes out at WWDC. I'll be out there in Cupertino to give you guys all the latest information. So make sure you guys are staying tuned and following all the socials for all that kind of stuff. Anything to leave us with, Jamie?

Well, that's about it. Thanks a lot, Andrew, and good luck with your kid. There's a chance you're not going to make it to WGFC. You never know. Don't jinx it. Anyway, everybody give the podcast a 5, 10, 100-star rating on your podcast player of choice. Check out the video version of this. Check out all the cool things Jimmy and I held up on camera, youtube.com slash HomeKit Insider. We'll catch you guys in the next episode.