795: Our iPad Usage
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Welcome to the Mac Power Users. My name is David Sparks, and I'm joined by my good friend and yours, Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen. How are you today? I'm good, David. How are you? I am excellent. You know, the weather's nice. Family's good. I don't know. I'm loving life, man. That's good. That's great. I had a hard day the other day, and my wife was asking me about it, and she says, so

So what's a hard day like as Max Sparky? I said,

A hard day as Mac Sparky is better than a good day as Sparks Law. There you go. That's what it's like. I love it. How did I pull it off? Really? Honestly, how did I get to this seat? I have no idea. I'm a lucky guy. We're both so lucky. Both so lucky. So today we have had a series of guests, ongoing guests on the Mac Power Users lately that have been iPad power users that gave up and switched over to the Mac.

And I felt bad for the iPad. Like, we've been dumping on the iPad. So I want to talk about the iPad today and what we do with it. So that's what we're going to talk about today. For those of you that are Alfred users...

Sign up for my newsletter. It's in the notes because I think you might want to do that this week. That's all I'm going to say. Sign up for my newsletter. It's a little tease there. I like it. There you go. Right. And then for more power users today, we're going to talk about this truck. So there's a new truck on the market called Slate Auto. It's like a kind of like...

do do it yourself truck. I don't know how else to explain it. Yeah. But the funny thing is Steven and I both got obsessed with it and started texting each other at the same moment in time, like an old married couple. Like we were both like, we're both getting into it. And the first thing I thought was like, I got to share this with Steven. And then you were doing the thing and you're like, I got to share this with Sparky. And like, it was just so funny that at the same time we're like trading texts on this, but there's a truck on the, on the horizon that we're interested in and an e-truck and,

That is $20,000, and it's just kind of intriguing. So we're going to talk about that today in More Power Users. But before we do, let's go to defend the iPad. Okay. Let's start with just kind of an update on the hardware that we have at hand, because mine has changed, I think, since last time we spoke about this. But let's start with you, because I never really know...

What you're doing with your hardware. I feel like, I feel like with Mac stuff, you're, you're up front and you're like, yeah, I'm thinking about this. I'm going to do that. But I feel like with iPads, like you're just sliding them in and out and like, you don't tell anybody. So. Yeah, I am. It's true. The, you know, so two adult children, somebody told me recently, adult children are like little poor people that think you're rich. And so, yeah,

what happens is they're often coming to me for hardware. So iPads leave me and sometimes come back, you know, because like, they're like, I really need this iPad for work.

And I'll just give them my iPad. And then I noticed that they never, ever use it or bring it to work. And I'm like, well, give that back to me, you know? And that happened with my 12.9 inch M1 Pro. It left and then it came back. So I have a age, like it's not really aging, but it's M1 Pro 12.9. I have a 11 inch M1.

m4 ipad pro i bought the good one last year and that's the m4 one if because these numbers are like hard to keep up with the m4 one is the thin one with the tandem uh right the 11 inch one isn't that thin it's the 12.9 that's super thin but i got it with the keyboard i got the current pencil you know i am

iPad and that also has a cellular radio in it and I pay for the connection on it. So that was my only iPad. And then I have a really old iPad mini. I don't even know what, I was going to look it up and I forgot, but it's, it's old, but it feels like it's new. So, you know, and that's another one that I'd given to a kid and then came back to me. So I've got three iPads.

okay. Goldilocks over there, you know? Yeah. I know. Small, medium, large. When we get into it, you're going to be shocked to find out which one is getting the most use. But, but to begin with, I've got the whole set gang. I can talk about all of them. The whole set. Yeah. Uh, so my children are not adults yet, but the same principles at play in my house. So, uh,

was using an iPad mini and one of the kids iPads needed replacing the

And so I ended up, the iPad mini went to one of the kids. It was my youngest, who's 10. And I kind of showed it to him. I was like, what do you think about this size? Because he has gotten into e-books. Our youngest son reads so quickly, like we were going to go broke buying books. Like we can't go to the library every day either. I love that. E-books! So we got it set up with Libby and like all the stuff. And the mini really kind of fits what he wants to do with it. So I gave him the mini and I got a refurbished iPad.

11 inch M4 iPad pro. And it's really nice. The size, I think I still prefer the mini size for my uses, or we're going to talk about our uses in a little while, but the screen is unbelievable. Um,

Most of the time I have it in just the smart folio, just like the cover. But I do have the Magic Keyboard for it. And I rarely use the keyboard with it. And I kind of regret spending the money on the keyboard. And no Apple Pencil. I, for years, was like, I'm going to get an Apple Pencil and like,

I'm going to sketch some stuff for like, I'm going to use it to navigate. I just never did it. Like it was like the aspirational purchase. Yes. I get it. And so this time around, I was like, you know what? I'm just going to be honest with myself. I'm never going to use this thing. So no, no Apple pencil. And most of the time it's in the smart folio. And I like that because it makes it really thin. The keyboard, I feel like the current magic keyboard is less bulky than sort of the, the earlier versions. Um,

But it definitely adds thickness and weight to it. It's really nice. And having a trackpad is really nice too for the times that I want it. But most of the time, it's just in that smart folio. And I'll grab the Magic Keyboard. I keep it in like my nightstand has a space in the bottom where I have a bunch of books. And I have it like in there with the books. And so sometimes I'll pull it out and throw it in the keyboard.

Yeah. So I have made it too complex and you've got it simple. So that's, that's a good, that's a good kind of, that's a good preview of this entire show. Frankly, looking at the outline, you want to start with usages? What are we doing with them? Yeah. So I really want to know in particular the, I guess the relationship between all of your iPads. Like when is the time that you go to each one?

Can we start there? They all get along fine. The 12.9 gets really angry when the 11-inch leaves the laundry in the machine.

No, that's not what you're asking me, is it? No. It's funny because the good one, the one I spent all the money on, is the 11-inch, and the one I use the most is the 12.9-inch. It's kind of weird. So what I do is the first use for an iPad in my life, and any of the Lab's members will notice because I've made a bunch of videos on this, is Mac Companion. Like an iPad is an excellent companion on your desk

Next to your Mac. And if you've got an iPad just sitting in a drawer, just listen up for a few minutes because I think this is something you should try. And the 12.9 inch is even better because it's bigger. You know, it's like an additional display. And so I keep a cable connected to my Mac.

with a USB-C that is always connected to this iPad. And so when I turn it on, it stays powered on. You know, they have this setting where, like, after three minutes, turn the display off. I turn that off. It's just always on. And so when I sit down at my desk, I turn it on, and it does a bunch of things. So in basic iPad mode...

It's just loaded with widgets. Think David Smith, Widget Smith. I've built out this desktop, so it's really cool. It's got the weather and the calendar, upcoming events, just status board-style information on the native iPad operating system. So it's being an iPad, but it's always on and giving me

uh, status display stuff. Right. So I've got the, you guys have a really cool calendar widget I use. It shows the next event. I use that. Um, you've got an interactive calendar where I can tap on a date and it shows me the events for that day. Use that.

there's just a bunch of widgets that I like. Like if you like OmniFocus or reminders, you can put a list of your tasks up there, you know, whatever you're like, whether if you, whatever your thing is, if you just want quick information, you can put it on there. Now we've got the new mode with the iPhone where you can stick it on a charging stand and it gives you a clock and a calendar, but you know, having a iPod,

iPad size screen allows you to take that to the next level. Yeah. And, and the iPad has the extra large widget size, which is really nice if you have a lot of information dense widgets. Yeah. Or you can like use the big photos widget and just have it like a photo frame, but having it next to your Mac is, is really useful while it's still in iPad mode.

There are some apps that I prefer to run on it. YouTube isn't one of them. Like sometimes I'm just doing busy work and I'll play a video on YouTube off this little screen while I'm, and that gives me my full screen on my Mac for the, you know, for the work. Another one is the Yuffie security app. Like when I'm expecting a delivery or something, I can just turn on the camera to the front door and have it there as a, you know, monitoring the front door waiting for the delivery guy to show up.

So it serves as a kind of utility player. Use a baseball analogy, you know, shortstop, first base, whatever we need, left field. So it does all of that. But then Apple kind of upped the game when they added, I think it's called sidecar, the sidecar feature, where it becomes an external monitor to your Mac. And you do that in the display settings on your Mac.

And like right now, I've got my recording widgets over there for this show. And that opens up my screen. And it's really kind of useful for that. The other thing I do, because I screencast a lot because it's plugged into my Mac. If I want to make a quick video on how to do something on the iPad, then I can do that. Just, you know, I'm already ready to go. I just hit the record button and start rolling.

So I think it's pretty useful as a Mac utility device, which is probably a little embarrassing, right? You know, it's the iPad. No, I get it. And Apple has done a lot. I mean, you've got universal control, right? So you can drag your mouse from the Mac over to the iPad and use your same keyboard on both. You have sidecar where it becomes like a small Mac display. I mean, Apple, yeah,

I've said this before, but their ideal customer is the person who like fluidly moves between their iPhone, iPad and Mac. And I guess Vision Pro that they fluidly throughout the day. Right. Like I pick one up and I sit one down and I move my document like Apple has a lot of technology to make that easy. And the iPad benefits from it. I think in this sort of use case where you're at your desk, you're at your Mac and

and you just need a little bit more, the iPad, I think, fits in actually really nicely there. I think Apple wants users to kind of have them side by side sometimes. Yeah. And if you've got an iPad in a drawer, try this because it's kind of nice. I guess it's less nice if you're using a laptop and you move around a lot because then you'd have to set it up next to it. But for me, it's kind of a permanent fixture just sitting here and off I go. So...

It's really useful as a little Mac companion. Now, there are some frustrations with this. One is you have to remember to turn it off, you know, because I leave the display on when I leave the room. My Mac will turn off automatically, but sometimes I'll look over in the studio and see that the iPad screen is still on like hours after I left the room. So you've got to remember to reach up and push the button.

And it would be nice if there was some way to trigger that. Like I could set a script or something that if the Mac goes to sleep, it tells the iPad to go to sleep. But I haven't figured that out yet. The other frustration is the display settings are forgetful. Like, you know, I have it set like on the lower left side below my screen and

And I just want it to remember it's there. But sometimes the Mac decides that it's over on the right side of the screen or whatever. So I'm using the mouse and suddenly the mouse falls off the screen. And I'm like, what happened? That is better than it used to be, but it still happens. So that is a frustration too. But overall, I mean, I think it's really quite useful. And I would say that sidecar mode for me is what I do when I'm recording. I don't do it like day to day.

During the day, it's usually just an iPad down in the lower left corner. But that location thing still is a problem. If I want to use my keyboard on the iPad, I've got to find the mouse to the iPad. So like a crazy man, I'm bouncing the mouse against the sides of the screen to figure out where it goes. Where are you? Come back. Yeah, that's funny that it loses track. I mean, I guess that makes sense, but you would think it would figure it out.

Maybe once a week that happens to me. So that's not infrequent. Okay.

All right. Next use for me is I call it my comfy chair computer. I've got a comfy chair in the studio, but I also have a couch in the house. And sometimes I just want to bring, do a little work with that. And, and that's where I use still the 12.9 inch iPad has been kind of the default. So I just unhook it from the desk, just disable it. And then I can use it for reading and

journaling. I'm a big fan of dictating with it because there's a lot of data there. So like if I want to dictate something and then later turn that into something quite often, I'll just do it on an iPad. Another thing I think it's really useful for is just what I would call thinking tasks like mind node, chat GPT conversations, things like that. It kind of fits that mold of just sitting there looking at this piece of glass, talking to it or, or building down a nice mind map. Yeah.

And is that with the keyboard in the comfy chair? No. Just the iPad. Yeah. How do you generally feel about typing on Glass? Not good. Not good. Yeah, I'm not a fan of it. But the voice-to-text dictation has just got so good. Apple's got better at it, and the rest of the world with the Whisper model has got even better.

So that is no longer really a barrier. If you want to get a lot of text into something, there's a lot of great apps that you can just talk to the thing and it gets a pretty good rendition of the text in. Not perfect, but pretty good. Yeah. Okay. I sometimes do email on it, but it's more of an email triage. Like if there's email in there that I can answer with a quick dictation, then I will. Otherwise I'll sort it into a folder, you know, whatever, like archiving and getting rid of mail.

My serious email work is always done on the Mac. Occasionally, I will write a GoodNotes essay on it. I do a lot of handwriting stuff, but I usually do that with paper and pencil, not digital. But sometimes that's what I have in front of me, so I'll use it. GoodNotes is really good for it, but I don't use it as much as some people do. Like, I've got friends in the labs who...

exclusively write journals out with good notes and an iPad. And it's perfect for that, but I don't do that as often as they do. Okay. The big friction point for comfy chair computer is the memory limitations. And you hit that. I hit it most often with speech recognition because like, I want to record my voice and,

and get texting, but I want to also like read a webpage. Like, like let's say I'm dictating blog posts and I'm reading a webpage and I've gotten the background, it, it, you know, catching my voice. And, you know, sometimes because of the memory limitations, particularly with third party apps, it just stops, you know, it just throws it out of memory. And if you're dictating into something like a six minute dictation and then it just dumps the app,

That's no fun, right? No, that's bad. That's a bad experience. Yeah, especially on an M4 device, you know, that has so much processing power. And I guess we can talk about this later and things we would fix. But so my fix for that, lately I've been experimenting with just using Apple's Voice Memos app, which gets more priority.

And it's not as good as some of the third-party apps, but it never gets crashed out of memory for me. Or the other thing is you just open up the dictation app on your iPhone and just sit your iPhone down and talk to the iPhone app and then do the work on the iPad. But it seems kind of silly to do two different apps. But yeah, so comfy chair computer. I find it useful for that as well.

More of a reference and thinking, I guess, is what I would call it in general when I sit down. And you're channeling the original keynote back in 2010, right? Steve Jobs was apparently some super expensive designer chair. Yeah. Yeah. Mine is not super expensive or designer, but it feels pretty comfy. I bet mine's more comfortable than his was. Yeah, it didn't look that comfortable. I don't know what the deal was there.

All right. You want me to continue? Yeah. Tell me about the, the, the, let's go, the, let's go the, the middle bowl of porridge. I've mixed my metaphors. Tell me about the 11 and where that fits in. Cause that's, that's my only size. I bought, when I bought the 11, that was my only iPad. It was before I had re-inherited computers from my kids. And I thought, I'm just going to do everything on that. And it could work for that. Like I could put, make it my Mac desk computer and,

And I was doing that, except, like I said, the kid wasn't using the 12 line. I'm like, well, I might as well put it on mine. It's just sitting there. But the thing I do with it, this is where it's a little weird, right? But it's my travel computer. Like, in general, if I'm going out of town or whatever, I have real dedicated use, I'll bring my MacBook Air. But generally, I don't bring my MacBook Air with me every time I leave the house.

But often I bring the 11 inch M4 because it is so small. And with that keyboard attached, there's so much I can do with it. So the first obvious excuse would be like Disneyland. We go there like once a week. And sometimes my wife wants to go do things that I'm not interested in. So this thing is so small. It's got a cellular connection. I can go post up, you know, by the Falcon there and answer email or just like do stuff.

So it's really useful for that. Another one is in my house that is, uh, has a lot of females in it that like to shop. They're like, Hey dad, we're going to go have lunch together. And I'm like, great. And I'll get in the car and go to lunch with them and we'll get the lunch. And it happens to be at a shopping mall. And then suddenly they're spending two hours shopping and

And I have just lost two hours. So I got really smart. Whenever they take me out, I always bring the 11 inch with me because I think there's always a risk of me being stuck somewhere and I can do work there. In fact, now they've got it. They have figured it out to where they're like, hey, we're going to go out for a few minutes, but you should bring your iPad. Yeah.

So they haven't fully explained to me their plans, but they have told me enough to let me know that I'm going to be sitting somewhere alone, you know, drinking tea. Yeah, the 11 being the middle one, like, first of all, it's kind of the default one because it's the middle. You know, the original iPad, I think, was 9.7. Yeah.

I think it is the sweet spot for most people. I think if you're unsure about which iPad to buy, somewhere in the middle, like the iPad Air is good. Like, I think you kind of know if you want a big one. I think you really know if you want the mini. Well, and if one of the kids comes back to me and says, Dad, I really need an iPad. They are not getting my 11. They can take the other two. Like, that's the one, right?

That being said, I'm using the 12.9 the most right now because it's very, for the in-home kind of uses I'm doing with it, it's actually really good. Another thing I didn't mention, the 12.9 is excellent for playing sheet music. And I have a lot of digital sheet music because it's bigger. It's easier to read. Yeah. We've had guests talk about that before. Yeah. But if I only could have one, it'd be the 11. But the 11 isn't the one I use the most because of just convenience and the way things worked out. But what I did recently, this is where it gets weird.

is I decided, because I usually just keep the 11 charged up and in my backpack in the house, but I decided, this is weird, I put it in a small bag, I turned it off, and I put it in the wheel well of the truck. Okay.

So it's, it's always ready to go. The spare tire thing. Yeah. So it's in there secretly. So if they, cause generally I drive, if they go somewhere, they want me to drive. So if they bamboozle me and suddenly I'm stuck somewhere, I got it with me. I got it with me and I keep it turned off. So the battery doesn't drain and you know, I bring it in every two or three weeks and fiddle with it and make sure it's charged up. But

But it feels a little weird to me having an iPad that good just sitting out in the truck. Just hanging out. Talk about privilege, right? I mean, come on. Yeah. Okay, so that's the 11. What about the Mini? What about number three? That one, I re-inherited it, and it is like your son. It's a reading device. I keep it in the bedside table.

I've switched to Kobo from Kindle and I have the Kobo app in there. I've got ReadWise Reader, Safari, and sometimes I read it. I actually don't read that much digital stuff in bed because I'm a little nervous about reading too many screens before I go to sleep, but it's there. I'm sure at some point that one is going to get sent back out to one of the kids.

I'm just a holding. It's in a holding space right now. You're a temporary guardian of the iPad mini. Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of people, that's where the mini falls. It certainly did for me when I was using one for a while is...

It's reading RSS. It's reading articles I've saved. It's reading eBooks. The size is so good for that. I still prefer to read on eInk if I'm going to really sit down and read for an extended period of time. But the mini is a good middle ground for that. And I think for me, at least the mini is not big enough for sitting down and writing or doing a lot of sort of quote unquote actual work. But that

the reading and kind of keeping up with things, it's a good fit. I mean, you say that, but the way the voice dictation is got, you can write with it. It's actually, in my opinion, one of the easier iPads to type on because it's small enough. You can hold it in portrait mode. That's true. You can thumb type. And just tap away. Yeah. So, I mean, I could get away with any one of these as my only iPad, but if I had to choose just one, it would be the 11. Yeah.

What are some things you're not doing? I noticed in all of that is no video, no TV, or at least not a lot of it. Yeah, I don't really watch media on it. I like to watch TV on my Vision Pro or the TV stuff I usually watch with the family. But if there's something I really want to watch, it's Vision Pro, baby. Okay, that's wild to me. It's someone who doesn't really ever use their Vision Pro. Yeah.

But yeah, I know you're not into it. Right. But I'm not. I feel like it's it's really good for this. It's like the new Andor is out and I haven't watched it yet, but I'm going to be strapping in and watching it there. And if my wife decides to watch it with me, I'll watch it a second time with her on the TV. But I'm not going to watch it on the little tiny iPad screen. I'm going to watch it in my super theater.

Okay. The other thing I don't do on it that a lot of people use it for is like focused writing sessions, you know, cause it's a unit tasker. And I do a little of that, like when we're out on the road, but usually what I do with the thing when I'm traveling is like, I'll journal with it or, or just kind of like manage the deluge of email and stuff. But the, but for like focused writing again, I like, I like vision pro for that. So I generally do that inside vision OS. Yeah.

Okay. There's a lot of overlap, you know, between iPad and vision. I think there's a lot of overlap. Oh yeah. I mean, I think computing wise, like the vision pros and iPad, it's harder to use. It's very similar. And because there's not just a lot of vision OS native apps, including from Apple, shame on them. You're using actual iPad apps on the vision pro, you know, quite a bit. Yeah.

Yeah. And when you say it's harder to use iPad, that's saying something, you know? Yeah. We're going to get to that. Don't worry. Ways to improve it. This episode of the Mac Power Users is brought to you by Squarespace. Go to squarespace.com slash MPU to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using the code MPU.

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Okay, so I just have one iPad. This will be shorter than the previous chapter. And my usage is actually pretty different from yours. I mean, there's definitely some overlap in like sitting down and doing like some thinking stuff. But my iPad is basically most of the time a media machine. And so video is great, especially on the 11 inch. Definitely nicer than on the mini iPad.

Apple TV, YouTube, Hulu, you know, whatever. I also do the thing you do where like it's often on my desk and like I'll if I'm going to like have a video going, I'll play it on the iPad and keep the computer kind of free for what I'm what I'm actually doing. I also use it on my desk as like a like right now as we're recording, I'm waiting on a package. And the rule of podcasting is that if you're waiting on a delivery, it will happen while you're recording. Like it's just the way the world works.

And so I've got my doorbell camera pulled up, and it's just like humming away over there. I can keep an eye on it, and if the UPS guy shows up, I'll see him out of the corner of my eye and go sign for my thing. So I do like it in context of my desk with my MacBook Pro and my studio display, but

very rarely am I using it in sidecar. I was, I was thinking back kind of reflecting on my usage of it. And I think the only time I really use sidecar where it becomes an extended Mac display is if I'm traveling and I just have my laptop and I, I want a second display for something. So, you know, the sort of most regular trip on my schedule these days is WWDC is like, maybe I'll have the keynote up or, or have the, um,

I have a session playing on the iPad and then working on the Mac. But day to day, probably because I use two displays at my Mac already, I have my MacBook Pro open and my studio display. I don't need a third. So most of the time for me, I'm interacting with it just as an iPad and then using universal control so I can slide my mouse over and get to it.

especially because most of the time it's not in the magic keyboard. That's another reason I prefer the smart folio these days is because it means it takes up less space on the desk because it's just like the iPad and the little kind of triangle of fabric stuff on the back. And the, you know, having even in the 11 inch, having it in the magic keyboard on the desk, it's basically like having another laptop on the desk, you know, kind of real estate wise. Yeah.

So, yeah, a lot of media stuff, a lot of reading. So the Kindle app, good links for, you know, things that I've saved online to read. And then it's like browsing, right? So, you know, sites that I want to go visit, the forums, you know, at MPU Talk and those sorts of things.

Those sorts of uses are really great on the iPad, especially the 11-inch. I agree with you that the mini is easier to type on, especially in portrait. My hands are big enough where I can thumb type on it really easily that way. But the 11-inch is fine for light stuff as well. I don't love typing on glass, but I can do it. And so there is some light communication stuff. So, you know, messages, email, Slack, Discord, that sort of thing. Not heavy usage, but...

light usage, especially like in the evenings where I generally don't take my MacBook Pro into the house. It generally stays out here in the office and

And so if I know that, like, hey, I kind of need to be around this evening, you know, someone has something going on at work, the iPad can fill that need for me. It's almost like a triage, communications triage. Yeah. And then if something happens, like, oh, I need my Mac, like, it's just across the backyard. It's not like it's far. But it means that I'm kind of not bringing my whole work, you know, into the house in the evenings, which I appreciate. Yeah.

And then, you know, a little light writing. So like some stuff in day one, sometimes I'll do some show prep on it and notion. But in those cases, I'm really going to sit down and write. I will bring, you know, I'll bring out the keyboard and,

But that writing is always pretty lightweight. Like I don't blog on it for 512 pixels most of the time because if I'm writing something for the site, I have a bajillion tabs open. And if it's like a computer history thing, then I have Devon Think open and like a bunch of PDFs and like maybe I'm watching a video. And my writing workflow for the blog, like for bigger pieces, is honestly pretty chaotic. And the iPad just –

doesn't keep up with it. And so big sort of big writing projects are going to be on the Mac, but that lighter stuff is on the iPad is definitely totally fine.

And it's not my primary portable computer. Like I have a 14 inch MacBook Pro as my main machine. And if I'm going to go like work at a coffee shop, then I'm going to take my MacBook Pro because like I'm going there to work. I need my work laptop. But I also have a refurbished MacBook Air that I set up during my sabbatical as like my sort of personal laptop. And that has actually continued ever

uh, to exist and be a part of sort of my setup where like last night, for instance, I went to a meeting for an organization I'm a part of and I had some notes to take and some things to reference, like some budget stuff as we were talking and I grabbed the MacBook air, you know, the iPad could have done it. I find iPad OS pretty frustrating at times. Like, you know what? I'm just going to take the air and, uh,

And so the air kind of fits in for me. I think maybe where the 11 inch does for you is like I'm leaving the house. I may have some light stuff to do. I may find some some unexpected time on my hands. And the MacBook Air is kind of where that where that clicks in for me.

Yeah, like for me, the MacBook Air in this is often used in the house away from my studio. You know, like if I just want to go and work at the kitchen table or whatever, I'll bring that.

like when I go out of town and cause I, I can't, there's certain things I do as a content creator that I can't do with an iPad, but you know, just like the day trips and stuff. I don't, I don't bring it with me all the time. So that's kind of where that little line is drawn for me. Yeah. And again, Apple wants its customers using a bunch of their products, right. And you and I are definitely in that, we are in that category. Um,

having a bunch of these things running around. But, you know, I feel like my iPad usage is honestly like kind of classic iPad usage, right? Some light, very light work tasks, mostly media, you know, reading, video, that sort of thing. If you could only have one device, your little portable M3 MacBook Air or your iPad, which one would it be? Oh, the MacBook Air. Like, no question. Like...

Because it can also do all the media stuff if I really needed it to. And so the Mac basically always wins for me in that equation. For me, I would give the same answer. I mean, I think that like, because there's just stuff that I need to do sometimes and I can't do it with an iPad. I like the iPad. It's better at other things that aren't as mission critical, but.

But yeah, I'm glad that I have the luxury of having them both. But if I had to use one, it would be the Mac. So I guess we're still dumping on the iPad a little bit today. I don't know if we promised to defend it. We're just kind of telling people where we are with it. And thinking about this and having those recent conversations, it was an opportunity to reflect on how my relationship with the iPad has changed over time.

And I don't think it's changed over time. I think where the iPad is today for me is about where it was in the beginning, right? Like it's great for media, some light work, kind of check-in management type stuff. But it's not my primary computer by any stretch of the imagination. And I know other people have pushed it way harder than me.

But for me, the way the Mac clicked for me 15 years ago is still the same way it clicks for me today. And the iPad doesn't have a lot of footing in that debate for me. And so I really think that my usage of the iPad, honestly, has been pretty much the same from the beginning. And we're going to get into maybe what we think Apple should do with the iPad, but I

I feel like my use of it is basically unchanged over the years. And, uh, I'm curious about you. Like if you could think back to when the iPad, you know, first showed up in your life, like, do you think about it differently now? Is it feel like, uh,

it has evolved for you or I don't know where you are, where are you on that? I mean, when the iPad first released, I wrote a book for Wiley press called iPad at work. I mean, I was, I was on the hairy edge for years trying to get more out of it, getting it to replace a Mac. But I shared this story on the show several times, but years ago I had a revelation that I should only use the iPad the way Apple plays it in the commercials, which is kind of the stuff we've been talking about today. Um,

And me and the iPad get along great now. I don't fight it anymore because I'm not trying to get it to do more than it's capable of. So I've definitely changed my relationship with it. And I'm not, it's, it's an odd oddity that I own three right now. It's because of parenting, I guess you would say. But I, I don't use, use it enough to justify having three, but because there's extra ones around the house and the resale value is not that great on the older ones.

I just kept them. But I think like one 11-inch iPad with the descriptions I've used in this show, it would be worth the money to me, and I'd be happy with it. But I'm not trying to get it to record and edit podcasts and do high-end work that I do with my Mac. Or the other thing is I really like automation and automation tools and

you know ipad os is is not there so it's just not even possible but my relationship with it is good but i don't demand nearly as much of it as i used to yeah i mean i think that's kind of where our guests have been you know a couple people we've talked to about this and i think there's more of those conversations coming probably it's like yeah like i pushed it for a long time and just kind of got tired of of pushing it and yeah that's an interesting thing and

So, yeah, I mean, I'd actually forgotten you wrote that book until I was asking you the question. I was like, wait a second. He was the iPad at work guy back in the day. A long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. Well, man, it was long. I mean, 15 years is hard to believe. Yeah. Yeah. I have a confession somewhat related. Okay. So I think it was last week on the show I talked about how I added a second monitor. Oh, yeah. How's that going? Yeah.

And then today I've been talking about how I got my recording tools over on the iPad, not on the second monitor. Okay. It didn't last, did it? It didn't last. It didn't last. So I went back and listened to the show last week, and you could hear in my voice that

how much it was annoying me to have this giant screen on my desk, even as useful as it is. And like, like about two hours after we finished recording that show, Daisy comes in and says, you know, I'm working home on Fridays now, but work won't give me a screen to take home. It's really frustrating. I need an extra screen. You know, maybe we should go get one. And I'm like, huh? Hmm.

So I ordered a Visa desk stand, a Visa Mount desk stand. Okay. Which is not particularly attractive. Yeah. And I pulled it off here and I hung it on there and I brought it over to her desk and I said, there you go, honey. You've got a very nice second display. Yeah.

Is she using a Mac? She's using a Mac for work stuff? No, she uses a PC. Okay, but it works. But she also has a Mac. And I've noticed she uses it for both of them. The PC connects to it just fine. And she's got a really nice... So she can put Disneyland spreadsheets on that big screen and...

She's good. I mean, she has the kind of job where a second screen is kind of mandatory. Yeah, a lot of people are in that boat. And that's why I think there was so much kind of dust up that the first several Apple Silicon MacBook Airs could only run like one external display. A lot of people in business, they want more than that even. And I think Apple's finally addressed that with the M4 generation. But this thing lasted, did not last long.

It was completely useful. And I just, it's a totally aesthetic thing. And the existence of this iPad was the reason I was able to give it to her because the stuff I need for recording tools, scripts, things like that, they'll fit on the iPad as a sidecar monitor. This episode of MPU is brought to you by Indeed. Hiring the right person for your team is so important. Get it wrong and you can expect stress for everyone involved.

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fixing the iPad, you know, what is it that Apple needs to do to make it more attractive to power users and, and should they, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I want to kind of rewind the clock a little bit here. Cause I think, I think so much of where the iPad is today is,

comes out of where it started. So roll back the clock to 2010, Steve Jobs on stage, there's a comfy chair that costs more than my car. And the pitch for the original iPad was, it's going to be better at some key things better than the phone, which was the iPhone 3GS at the time, like to really put the original iPad into context, early days of the iPhone. And

It's got to be better than the phone at some things. It's got to be better at the Mac than some things. And he listed a handful of things, web browsing, email, photo, kind of review and management and some other things. Really, in hindsight, what he listed was like basically what most people do with their computers most of the time. But, you know, that's fine. But the criticism, I'm sure you remember this. I'm sure our listeners remember this. The criticism of the iPad was it's just a big iPhone.

They took, at the time, what was called iPhone OS. They scaled it up for the iPad screen. They took the iPhone version of Mail and scaled it up. They didn't take the Mac version of Mail and shoehorn it onto the tablet. It was based on the iPhone OS architecture, app stack, technology, all of it.

And that was a really good move because it means it inherited all the early success of the iPhone, right? And Apple used to get on stage for years and say, there's 10 zillion iPad apps and there's five Android tablet apps, right? And part of that was because developers could take their iPhone apps and say,

build iPad user interfaces on top of them and ship it. And it meant that the iPad had all the security and sort of, you know, new at the time multitasking that the iPhone had. And it was a good foundation to start on. I think taking iPhone OS and building it up

to an iPad as opposed to taking Mac OS and shoehorning it down into the iPad, I think was the right call at the time, but they were and still are serious ramifications that come out of that decision. And even though several years ago, Apple said, oh, it's now iPad OS and it has its own branding.

Under the hood, it's the same thing as iPhone, that the iPhone is running, right? It's iOS under the hood. And they've implemented features on top of it for the iPad. But the same basic, I'm going to do air quotes here because not everyone sees it this way, but the same limitations of iOS still impact the iPad today. And I think that's where so much of the tension of what the iPad is versus what it could be

stems from the decision that they made, you know, all those years ago. And again, I think it was the right decision, but it put the iPad on a timeline that we are now in of like, like, is it just a big iPhone with like some different window management stuff? Like in a way it, it kind of is. Yeah. And I think like there's a lot, there's some fundamental inconsistencies around the iPad that if, if you think about it are kind of baffling, like,

It's an M4 MacBook Air chip, right? It's a MacBook Air caliber processor with like, you know, and I'm going to be vindictive here and say a Fisher-Price operating system, but it's like the processor...

vastly outclasses the operating system capabilities. So as a person who listens to Mac Power users, that is really hard to figure out in your brain. Like, wait, this thing has the same amount of processing power as a MacBook Air, but it can't do hardly any of that stuff. The other inconsistency that you have to process is Apple marketing.

Not always, but often they try to market this as a laptop replacement. Remember that what's a computer ad? Like they often want you to think that you just get one of these and you're good. Yeah. And for some people that's true. Like I am a desktop slash laptop.

you know, laptop user. I have a big desktop that is my most computer, but I also have a laptop that I use. There are a lot of people listening to the show right now that have a big desktop and an iPad, and that's good enough for them to do their remote work. But Apple, I think goes a step further. They like, they kind of imply with their marketing that you don't need a Mac. You can just get one of these things and you're good.

Yeah. Which is true for some people. It is. I have someone in my family, my sister, you know, she had a Mac laptop for years. She got an iPad. She got rid of her laptop. It's the iPad is it is her computer. So it's true for people. But, you know, for those of us that like to get more out of our computer that want to push them harder, people who seek out a show like Mac power users, that's not true. Mm hmm.

So I guess, you know, it got me thinking, what would I do, you know, if they put me in charge? And first of all, I will say that they would never put me in charge because I would spend too much money. But, you know, let's assume that they're not accountable to stockholders and we can actually try and fix this thing. I would make an iPad Pro user group, you know.

people like Federico and Chris and like the people who have really pushed the outer edges of this, they have a, a pro apps user group like now that some people like work inside Apple, they watch them. I don't think you need to go that far down the rabbit hole, but just like get people that have really been pushing the boundaries and say, give us all your sticky points, you know, let's see what we can do. And I do think there's some low hanging fruit there. Um,

Audio routing is an obvious one. I mean, an M4 chip could definitely handle audio routing. And the problem there is like recording to a mic into a recording app, but also put the audio into Zoom so I can talk to a person at the same time I'm recording. It's such a basic thing. It goes way back on the Mac. It's just never been possible because of kind of the underlying philosophy of the iPad. They've never enabled it.

Another low-hanging fruit one is my problem where a dictation app just dumps out of memory because I don't have it front and center the whole time. There is enough memory and the processor is powerful enough that you no longer have to be so stingy about memory with these apps, these mobile apps. Maybe give an app a pro designation or something and let people...

Let users decide, or maybe don't let users decide. Just make it built in. But one of the big problems with the iPad is people aren't writing apps for it, and people aren't writing apps because they don't want their app to get dumped from memory randomly. If you fix some of these problems, that will bring more development in. Another low-hanging fruit for me is just the Files app is not up to snuff. They need to get closer to Finder.

And I think if you do things like that, you may get developers involved. But since I don't care about money, I would also cede some money out to developers that are making powerful Mac apps to make an appropriate iPad version. Yeah, it's interesting. I agree with all of that, but I want to play devil's advocate for a second. Sure.

The iPad is an extremely successful product, right? There's a wide range of them at different price points. And generally, I think people who aren't struggling with this tension are

I think generally are really pretty happy with their iPads, right? Like I'm thinking about, you know, my friends and family members who have them, who use them as simple home computers, use them as TV replacements, you know, use them as, hey, I'm just going to browse, you know, marketplace or whatever. Like a lot of people don't,

feel the tension with the iPad that we do. Now they may look at something like the iPad pro or the magic keyboard with the track pad and everything. And like, well, I don't, I don't need that. That's too expensive for me. I'm going to go buy, you know, the base level iPad or an iPad air or something. And,

And Apple's perfectly happy taking those customers money. And those customers are perfectly happy using their iPads for years and years. I mean, we've heard from so many listeners over the years. The iPad upgrade cycle is very long for most people. I would guess that it's probably in the ballpark of the max upgrade cycle for most people, if not even longer. Yeah.

Because it fits in like, hey, I just need a tablet around the house. Or they get one for their kids, and the kids use it for years and years for schoolwork and video and FaceTime with granddad, right? All those use cases, people love. And while I agree with you, I want these things to come to the iPad, I'm extremely aware that any complication they bring to the iPad...

Apple has to balance with those millions of users who don't care about the complication. And my key example for this is stage manager, which while not great, uh, was Apple's attempt to bring, you know, kind of a more desktop like window management to the iPad. You know what they did? They made a mode you switch into and out of because they knew that, that most people just want to use the iPad one app at a time like they did in 2010. Um,

And I thinking all of that through, I just wonder if this is like an us problem. Like, yeah, like the iPad's really powerful and it's really cool. And like, it's modular, which is the thing Federico loves, but maybe Apple's okay with like the nerds being angsty about it while they go on and sell bajillions of iPads to the masses every year. I don't think you're necessarily devil's advocate there because I, the thought experiment I had of saying, well, how would I fix it?

I got thinking, well, okay, at the end of this, let's say they do that. They improve the files app. They do, you know, pro apps retain memory. Are you going to throw out your MacBook Air to get an iPad? And the answer is no, because it's never going to run keyboard maestro. You know, it's never going to be the Swiss army knife that the Mac is.

Even if they make steps in that direction, they're never going to go all the way because fundamentally it's an iPhone. It's not fundamentally a Mac to your point earlier. So what's the point, you know, just get a, I mean, the MacBook air is so cheap and light now it's lighter and cheaper than a Mac than an iPad pro with a keyboard, you know? So, so if that's the stuff you want, then get a Mac and, but, but, you know, I get back to this whole idea of the inconsistent messaging from Apple and

Another thing that they do that's inconsistent messaging is they make the iPad pro like, what is that for you? And I buy it cause we're sheep, right? I mean, but what, what does it do that a standard, you know, iPad air does doesn't do, you know, at this point, I guess it's just like, if you want to have the coolest screen and the biggest and baddest thing to play your YouTube videos, right? I mean,

I feel like Apple is kind of trying to talk out of both ends of its mouth, right? Is that the saying, something like that? Like they're saying, yeah, this is what it does. This is all we're going to do. The software team is pretty clear. They don't want to like expand it. But the hardware team is making this just like a killer hardware that like, you know, it's like getting a Maserati, but saying you can only drive it in the parking lot. The iPad Pro is confusing. It's...

And again, I kind of go back to like, maybe Apple's okay with that. Maybe they're okay with like the weird overlap and that some people are going to be super into the iPad pro and some people aren't like, I would love to know the, like the breakdown of sales across the iPad line and,

my gut says if the cheap one vastly outsells all the others uh and and the ipad pro is is you know a relatively small part of the the overall sales but i don't know you know i don't know and that's even more complicated like if you go to the uh the apple website and go to the ipad section and click on keyboards like what keyboard works with what ipad like

It's better than it was a couple of years ago, but it's still kind of messy. And like, if you want a keyboard with a track pad, you know, like that means certain things. And it means that the, uh, the base iPad, you know, may not actually be the best fit for you. If, uh, if you don't like the way that that keyboard works or you don't want to, you know, maybe you don't want to spend the money on the, the big fancy magic keyboard for iPad pro. They're like, what does that mean? It's,

They flirted with this so much, but they haven't committed. They haven't committed to the iPad being a laptop and they haven't committed the laptops to being an iPad, you know, with touchscreens and stuff. And maybe that's just fine with them. But I agree with you. It certainly is weird. And it's easy to get kind of wrapped up in it. It'd be nice if they actually kind of were more honest in their expectation setting. Like if they just said, hey, you know what? We don't view the iPad as

as a power user device you know except for these unique use cases when you work at the top of a windmill or something you know but the um i guess it's obvious we should know better like if you want all the automation tools if you want the ability to do anything with it get a mac

You know, I think that part of the debate of like, do I get an iPad Pro or an iPad Air even in a keyboard or I get a MacBook Air, like that's become, in my mind, an easier thing to consider in the Apple Silicon era because you can get a base MacBook Air and it's going to be a great computer for a long time. And, you know, you can go get an M1 MacBook Air from Walmart still. It's like 600 bucks and it's a great computer. And you get all the stuff that...

that you want out of mac os that you can't get on the ipad and it does leave the ipad pro out sort of on a ledge but you know maybe it's just there you know maybe the ipad pro is like the mac pro right maybe it's like it's out there for people who really do care about the ipad and like it really works for them and their lives and their workflow and they want the most they can get out of ipad os and

But for the rest of us, like I didn't need to buy an iPad pro. Like I would have been totally fine with an air. I got, I found a refurbished one. So, uh, you know, I, I went for it, but maybe it just comes down to that. Maybe it's like the iPad pro is there if you want more, but we know most people are going to kind of be in like the, the big part of the bell curve and, and,

Just like the Mac Pro that raises weird questions and like existential angst among nerds. But, you know, it's fine for the the the, you know, masses of people who walk into an Apple store. And and that's maybe that's just fine. I don't know. It's so it's complicated. But at the same time, maybe it doesn't have to be. Maybe it's, hey, get a MacBook. And if you really want an iPad, you got options. And and Apple's OK with that.

Yeah. I mean, I would say buy an iPad for what it can do now. Don't have some dream like some day in the future, it's magically going to become a laptop, you know, MacBook air. It's not, but that's okay. If you're comfortable with the things it does. And like, like when I, the use cases I described today, you know, the external Mac screen, the comfy chair computer, the iPad is excellent for that. And I'm happy I bought one because I get to do that now. But yeah,

I don't look at it like I used to, like, oh, I can turn this into a Mac because you just can't. You know, another penny to drop on this, which I think is going to happen soon, is Apple is now making their own cellular radios. So I think it's only a question of time before you buy a MacBook Air with a built-in cellular radio. You know, you get that on the iPad. There's a lot of explanations floating around why they never added it to the Mac, but the fact that they make their own radio now, I think it means it's,

I think that's probably a lot closer to reality than it has been in the past. Yeah, I think so too. I hope that's coming. I think that would be great. All right, so that's the iPad. Yeah. It's messy, but great, but also frustrating.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like we kind of, to me, writing down how to make it better and realizing even if they did all this stuff, it still wouldn't replace my Mac was a good moment for me to have. Like, okay, yeah. So maybe you don't need to do all that stuff because it's still not going to convince me, you know? But anyway, there we go. Mac power users, not iPad power users. Yeah.

We are the Mac Power Users. You can find us over at relay.fm slash MPU. If you want to join more power users where you get the ad-free extended version of the show, we'd love that. Helps keep the lights on around here and gets you that extended version of the show. Today, we're going to be talking about the Slate Auto with that. Thank you to our sponsors, Squarespace and Indeed. And have a great day, everybody.