Bootstrapper Hits $3.5m, 0 Team Members using new 3x Growth Formula
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Yeah, so I'm doing around 3.5 million ARR now with all these agents and I started, I launched the first one a bit more than a year ago. So this is, is SEO about the biggest revenue earner?

Yeah, this one is doing almost 120k MRR now and been doubling month over month after the launch. And how many folks are on the team working on SEObot? It's just me and one more person. Are you open to screen sharing your Stripe account and showing us the tiny ads growth just from zero to 5k?

Yeah, of course.

of one of his agents getting a job on a job board. His specifically listing bot paid $499 to do a SEO job that someone named Caleb Pfeffer put together for their startup Firecrawl Dev. So I want to talk to John about how he's building these agents, how much revenue he's doing, how he's growing, and just how he's thinking about building 20 plus startups all at one time. John, you ready to take us to the top?

Yeah, so I'm all in building AI agents and I bet everything on the future of AI agents. And I think the future is founders plus AI agents and that will be the new normal. That will be the new corporations run by very few people in some cases, like in my case, almost no people and the AI.

That's wild. So your bio here, I run the most automated org on earth using AI agents that you build like Unicorn Platform, Index Rusher, Listing Bot, SEO Bot, Tiny Ads, etc. We're going to jump into all of these today. But John, I don't want to bury the lead. Can you share anything from a growth perspective? Are you comfortable sharing sort of how much revenue all these things do together? Yeah.

Yeah, so I'm doing around 3.5 million ARR now with all these agents. And I started, I launched the first one a bit more than a year ago. So before that, I was in the trenches just experimenting and building stuff.

So it's several of them making most of the revenue, like SEOBot, ListnBot, Unicorn Platform, and a few others are accounting for most of the revenue. And the other products are either free or they're just starting out. So is SEOBot the biggest revenue earner?

Yeah, this one is doing almost 120K MRR now and been doubling month over month after the launch. So it's doing really, really well. And I think it has done a really good job at making the whole AI agent on autopilot popular on Twitter at least. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, this is fascinating. So 120K a month right now in revenue. You're charging 19 bucks a month. When did you launch the platform? It was...

A bit more than a year ago. So I launched in the internal beta for like six months with people I know and they've been using it for six months. And after that, I launched for the public around 12 months ago or maybe 14 months ago. Okay. So maybe like April, February of 2024. Yeah. Yeah. That's when it was kind of public. Until that, I had the six months off closed beta where I would invite people to try it. And how many folks are on the team working on SEOBot?

It's just me and one more person. So all my teams are the same. It's me who comes up with the idea and who builds usually the first MVP and tests out and does the pre-sale and ideates and builds up the UX and everything. And then I find a co-maker usually on Twitter or in my network.

who joins in to build the thing and we build it together. So the other person is building and I'm promoting and then I help him to build, he helps me to promote. So it's kind of a team of two people.

So that's you and Vitalik on SEO Bond, right? Yeah. Yeah. Just two people. Can I ask? What do you do? Do you just split equity 50-50 or how do you have that conversation? Yeah, 50-50. Yeah, exactly. So it's 50-50 split, just like your co-founders in a startup. And he's a CTO and I'm CEO, but we do a lot of things together too.

This is wild. Okay, so I love how you're building. You're obviously building in public. These kind of screenshots obviously do very well on Twitter. Actually, you see them all here, which is great. You're using testimonial.io for this wall of love? No, I think this one is from Senja, just a competitor. Spell that. Senja, like as, yeah, exactly.

Okay, okay, central.io. Okay, cool. All right, so you've got this great wall of love going here. Okay, so help us understand, your price point's $19 a month. And so I guess, so what is that? $120,000 divided by 19. Does that mean what you have about 6,000 paying customers?

A bit less than that because we have 49, we have 199, we have 499. So we have a lot more inside there. And right now I'm seeing a lot of people moving for higher tiers and higher plans. And we haven't even started working with bigger customers. But the end goal here is to go, of course, for the bigger customers. So I usually start with a smaller check just that my first customers are the builders.

Because I like to build product for builders first because they give me good feedback and they actually become part of my product team. And once I get to a place where they love it, then I increase the price and then it goes more for teams and we see founded companies and corporations. Okay, so sorry, how many customers do you have today about? I think it's like 5K or 4K, between 4K and 5K.

That's great. How are you driving? This obviously does all the selling for you, right? Getting your users to tag you and post a screenshot of their growth. Is this all happening organically or are you sort of softly prompting folks, hey, you should put a screenshot up, tag us, you're crushing it?

Yeah. So surprisingly, I've never asked anyone to do that. And I think if I did that, I would maybe 10x my revenue over a few months. So people do it on their own. And it's just, I spend time to listen to the users and have chats going on with a lot of the users. I don't think anyone on earth has more chats than me. I think I have almost like 1000 chats going on with users.

And they love it because I listen directly and I come back with fixes and with improvements. And usually that kind of makes them loyal and then they become like ambassadors of the product.

That makes tons of sense. So it's just two of you guys building us. So like that's really high revenue per employee, right? $60,000 per month in revenue per employee or $720,000 a year in revenue per employee. Walk us through. So you mentioned what's growth strategy here. I mean, is it really just almost purely social? I mean, are you, I'm going to go into your backend here. Are you running your own SEO play for SEO bot? Yeah. So basically I have a,

Very simple strategy. So number one, I show everybody how the tool is helping myself. So in case of SEO bot, I use it for all my other products and then I share the results and that helps a lot both the products I share the results for and those I used. Then I do a lot of SEO using SEO bot listing bot index rusher. So that brings around 30% of my traffic.

And then the other 30% comes as cross promo. So all the tools are targeting the same audience, right? And if somebody joins one of my products as a customer, then they end up using all of my other products eventually. So that's like a big chunk of the growth of 30% SEO, 30% cross promo and 30% is social media where I build in public and other people share content.

that they use my product too. So it just comes from social media. And 10% is all the other things, all the small things. And here's an example of you using your own dog food, right? You launched your own SEO tool, llmodels.org. You grew up from zero to this many clicks per month, and you're saying, hey, I used SEO. I used my own tools to do this.

Yeah, exactly. And I do a lot of products. So since I keep doing zero to one over and over again, then I can reiterate on that again. So I'm not sharing the same product, the same thing over and over again. So I start new product from zero and in month I get somewhere and I use my own tools and then when it works, I share and it brings users. This is great. Okay. So that's the story of SEO bot. You said the next biggest tool that you run in terms of revenue is listing bot.

Yeah, Listing Bot is a very simple tool. So it does only two things. So one part of the tool is deep research it does on the internet to find all the web directories for a particular product.

And it's really hard work because you want to find everything on the internet and then you want to rank it by the relevance and domain rating, etc. And the other thing it does, it actually lists you there. So it's a web automation that registers on the directory and adds your product there and does all the form filling, etc. John, this is crazy. Are there really over 10,000 directories that people can apply to?

Oh, there are more actually. This is a hardcore number, so there are a lot more now. I think this is from a year ago, so now a lot more. I would say that every month we add at least 500 new directories into the database.

And when I say directories, people think these typical AI directories, but in fact, there are a lot of directors in the world for niche products too, for e-commerce stores, for mobile apps, for pet shops. Like there are a lot of directories there. I think there are a hundred thousand directors in the world and probably we have around 20K of them now. And my goal to find them all. And also there are new directories popping up every day so we can find them too. - And are you comfortable sharing revenue here?

Yeah, so this one is doing over 50K a month and it's a one-time payment. So it's basically a thousand people buying it every month. Wow. Okay, so a thousand people. So there's no recurring thing. You have to get new traffic, new buyers every month. Exactly. And this is very interesting. Like when I started that, everybody said that you must have recurring plans and it just worked. And it's actually...

was an experiment where i have one-time payment and also i have strapling so you have to pay first to see the next step it's really high bar right like i think a like very tiny number of people actually go through this and even that brings quite a lot of users

And I'm launching the version two very soon where it'll be a lower bar where you can actually pay $50 a month and get 20 directors listed every month. And then I entered this wider game. But my goal was to start just like Tesla start with Roadster, like expensive car, really good service. In my case, like,

like right now it's expensive, but it's really good because I have the AI stuff working on, but also I have actual people who review everything and then it's just really good job at the end. And the next step is to reduce the human labor there and have it fully autonomous and drop the price and let people to moderate the whole thing themselves, but pay less. Yeah. And now is this, are you building this one yourself or do you have a co-founder here as well?

Yeah, this one is just me, but I have a, so I built myself, but I have a co-founder who is doing all the moderation work. So a guy who just, you know, watches the AI do the thing and then corrects all the mistakes and make sure there are no hallucinations and things like that. That's cool. And do you do 50-50 split there as well, or is he more like a paid contractor? Yeah, it's not 50-50. So it's also split, but not 50-50. It's like 90-10. I see.

I see, I see. You're 90, he's 10. Are you a Warren Buffett, Mark Leonard kind of guy? You build and hold forever? Or is the goal here to build these, sell them, then do it again? Build it and sell and build and sell? No, I hold it forever. So I only buy, I don't sell. Because I don't see any reason to sell. In my case, every product is not just a product itself, but also it's a part of my ecosystem where it drives people into my other tools. So even if the product is not doing that well,

It's not a problem for me. Like I have some products, for example, I have like few products that are doing

people are not moving from free to paid here basically i'm not making money there but people still discover my other tools from those products and i'm happy because it's still a good mark so they act as marketing channels for me like i have directories i have like 25 or 35 directories right now like a lot of them and most of them make no revenue some of them do pretty good but most of them don't but they drive traffic to all my other tools so i'm happy to keep them

And I don't sell because I actually want to end up having this full ecosystem where I have every single tool that a typical busy founder or like a bootstrap founder would ever need, starting from tools for building products, tools for operating, tools for growing, and tools for monetizing. So the whole stack, that's my endgame here.

Really interesting. I'm just trying to get a sense of your background here so I can understand like your DNA, your genes, right? So you were in UI, UX, QA here. Yeah.

I studied computer science and AI and then UX. So my first 10 years were in VC-backed companies. So I started seven VC-backed companies as a CTO with other co-founders in Norway. Then I went to the US, to San Francisco, to 500 Startups, to Alchemist. So I've been in this typical VC-backed game for 10 years.

And at the end, basically, I felt like my whole game is to serve investors and to chase the exits where what I really wanted is to serve my users and chase like a legacy. So chase generational growth.

company where it will be there even after me. And that's why I made a pivot from VC back world into the booster world where I'm my own boss and I don't have to optimize for exit or for the next round. I just own the whole thing. I have good profits. I use profits to fund myself. So now that's my life. So basically some products are making pretty good money. I use that to build the next product and just

spinning around the same blueprint. Is Tiny Ads your company as well? Yeah, this is my latest product, really cool one. So far, I've been only doing organic growth or non-paid growth. And every time I tried paid growth using Google or Facebook, it never worked. So I built my own ad network for B2B, for small B2B startups, just so that I could actually spend money on growth.

And it works really well. So now after 35 days, we reach 5K MRR and 10K in revenue. And almost 1,000 publishers have joined the platform to serve the ads. So it's going really well. Wait, John, are you open to screen sharing your Stripe account and showing us the tiny ads growth just from zero to 5K? Yeah.

Yeah, of course. Just give me, let's go. This is going to be great. People, people love seeing the proof behind the story. You know what I mean? So guys, this is, this is, I think just to give some context while John's bringing that up, I think this is the future. I mean, he's got a holding company. I believe you call it Mars, right? Mars X dot dev. John. Yeah. Yep. It's his holding. It's his holding company. He's building all these tools for himself, right? He's generating profit. You use Mars X dot dev and all these, this basically microbes concept. These are all the tools that you've built are part of this, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I will show you how I build it using MarsX. Okay. So I will take over the screen now. Let me turn the screen over to you. Yeah, let me stop sharing. Go ahead. All right. I have to make sure I don't share any emails of the people. Yeah, don't click customers, yes. But there's your MRR graph there. You can see. So hover over that zero. Where was it? Zero. You can see it this way. Yeah. So it started, like, where is it? I launched that on April 15th, so exactly a month ago. And then it went down.

That's awesome. You know, it was like crazy because everybody said like, you are crazy launching an ad network. That's a game for big guys. But, you know, I had people telling me that everything I do is not going to work ever because like, you know, in 2022, I was building AI coding tool. Like MorseX is an AI coding tool. And people said like, P.

Developers will never switch because there is VS code and everybody's going to use VS code for the next decades. And now we're in a world where everybody's using something else for that, right? I will show you another tool. Look, all these, all these, yeah, by the way, if you have ListingBot, like we'd love to, and Stripe, SEOBot and ListingBot, we'd love to see the growth on those too if you're comfortable sharing those in Stripe.

But I mean, guys, to John's point just now, I actually think the ad space is very interesting because Google has an innovator's dilemma, right? They're going to have to cannibalize their ad revenue to go make sure that the LM search and the chat function stays with Google versus ChatGPT winning that space. And if that's the case, tools like what John's building, like new creative ways to do ads, there's going to be a big, big, big market for that if Google takes a step back there. So eager to see how tiny ads grows over time, John.

Yeah, I mean, I think like one thing people don't realize that the whole game the Google is playing is is basically running on a lot of VC money because people are fine in the VC world to spend $10 and get back $5, right? And

But in my case, I actually, I thought like, why it should be that way? Why can't we make a system where you pay $1 and you get two back? And also the other side makes money on that. And I thought, and people said like, no, the math won't work. Like,

Somebody has to lose. I'm like, why? You serve the ads. You get paid. The other side just pays for the traffic. It should work. I will share some more stuff. Just give me a second. Yeah, I mean, while you're loading that, we're seeing very creative new ad networks, right? I mean, you look at what Tyler's done at Beehive, right, where you subscribe to a newsletter. Yeah.

And then at the end of the first subscription, it recommends three other newsletters. And those other newsletters pay per new subscriber, right, as you're growing. So these new, like, tiny ads, Beehive, there's all these new creative ad networks I think that are going to pop off. Exactly, exactly. All right, what are we looking at? So this is SEO Bot. And so I have two channels. One is the Stripe and one is the Enterprise with Invoices. So I have here, like, most of the revenues here actually, like, over $100K a month.

Do you have the MRR graph here if you scroll down a little bit? I sell credits. So basically the way it works is that people pay for, people load the whole thing with credits and they spend credits on the articles.

I see. I see. So the reason we see the dip there is because that month is – that's this month, May 16th. It's only halfway done. Yeah, yeah. So it basically reached around 100K, and that's my system basically. The way I do it is I start, I get to 50K, then I pause.

Then I come back, I get to 100K, then I pause and go to other tools. And I basically don't want to go farther than 100K because then it becomes a product that will require me to work a lot on the product because now you have to move on the audience. You have to move up to more serious clients, to enterprise clients. They want demo calls and they want to spend your time. And I don't want that. So I want to have like fully async. And I

And then I come back once I know how I can automate that part so that I can go further. Like, for example, two bottlenecks now and SREO bought for me. One is support.

So it's a lot of support because it's a lot of customers and they have to connect their CMS and everything just falls apart all the time with those CMS. So I want to automate the support part. So I'm building support agent that will not just answer like all the others, but it will act, it will try to fix the problem and get into the database and change things and get the whole fix done for you.

And because now like almost 80% of our time go for support. So we're not building anything new. We're not, I'm not marketing, we're just doing support. And once we fix that, we're gonna go to the next because otherwise we just can't free our hands.

And I will show you. So, well, hold on. Before we leave here, can you scroll down a little bit so we can see the Y axis on the gross volume chart, the bottom axis, the X axis, the timestamps? It's cut off on my screen. Can you just scroll down a bit? Yeah, there we go. Okay, got it. So you get going in August. I just don't want to scroll farther because there are emails off the customers. No, no, you're good. You're good. You're good. Well, click view more under gross volume. Click view more on that graph. Then it will just show that graph. Actually, you see the view more? That way there's no risk of us hitting sensitive customer information.

Oh, but that we can't see it. Exactly the opposite happened. I opened in the other tab, so it brought me to the list of customers with emails. Okay, enough sharing Stripe. Tell us about Mars. Is Mars holding the holding company? Yeah, so I'll show you Mars. Share this tab. So it's an interesting story. So it all started with me in 2021.

Where I want to build this ecosystem of 100 tools and run it with almost no people. So I had this vision from the store. That was my goal because I knew that I love building stuff and I knew that I want to do it on my own terms with no VC funding. It means I have to be efficient.

So we're looking at it here on my screen, right? Yeah, exactly. So number one step there in my game plan was to build AI coding tool that will simplify the whole building process for me because I have to build 100 products. And just for that, you need thousands of people, right? And back then, even more. So my first job was to build that. So I spent like two, three years building it just myself.

while I had my other VC-backed startup running and I was running that too, but this was my hobby project basically in the weekends and evenings. And by 2022, I built the first version that was working and then I started using MarsX to build all my next products using MarsX. So that's kind of- Makes a lot of sense. So first I built the SaaS-producing

and then I build these SaaS tools using this. Yeah, very cool. Well, hey, look, as we wrap up, are you game to critique my SEO for five minutes and give me some live feedback? Yeah, sure. All right. So,

So let's do this. We're going to do it for, for, for get lack. All right. So this is when I record podcast interviews like this, right? And then I come list the companies on my site with all the, all the audio data that you just gave. Right? So the CEOs say we do a million of revenue and okay, boom, then it's a million of revenue. And our SEO strategy here, uh,

John is we know that we rank really, really well many times the number one spot for the keyword combination. So programmatic SEO of company name plus the word revenue because our data source is the audio. It's a really good, strong data source. However, you can see here over to like notion revenue, for example, right?

1200 clicks, 18K impressions. You see what's happening here though, right? Which is like we used to get 4,000 organic clicks per day on those impressions. And now with AI results, we're showing up in more impressions, 190K a day, but our clicks have gone down by about 50% on average per day.

right are you seeing this across a lot of your tools yeah yeah so basically as ai made it easier to enter the game uh there are so many more people playing seo game compared to the year or two ago so now uh it's much harder to win traffic but at the same time uh i think what you're doing is pretty cool and actually i uh

So your website, when I was searching for the revenue of these companies, some other stuff, and you have this – Yeah, yeah. You have these reports. So like first time I landed on your site from reports where it was like wider report about something. So I think – Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it was probably a report. There's a lot we do. We do thousands of reports, but like where I'm struggling is we're trying to figure out like, okay, this is a, this is the page for Zapier revenue. And so like what I do, John, like once a, once a week is I'll go in and open up all the LLMs and I'll just say something like, Hey, what is Zapier?

Zapier's revenue because this is the new homepage of the internet, right? So I ask I just ask every LLM what's a peers revenue and I want to see how many of them site get latke now like I don't understand how all these work, but I imagine a lot of these are using Content that they scraped when they launched the models like eight, you know eight months ago So they're not gonna have our most up-to-date data on get latke, right?

Well, not anymore. So now almost all of them use live search. So most of them use Bing search, but Bing just closing down their API now, by the way. But until they do it,

If you're presented on a Bing first page, then you'll be presented in most of the LLMs too because almost everybody who's using LLM now uses LLM with the internet search enabled. And that's why, like in the old days, you would have to be in a training set, but now you don't have to be in training set. So now basically the SEO game is also LLM game at the same time. Yes. Yeah. Well, this is what confuses me. Like we dominate in perplexity. You can see our logo. We come up number one, right? And we're

We get a lot, like people click in, they see my interview with Wade, right? And it's great data. We've also structured all of this in a way so that the LMs can easily read it, right? That's how they rebuild these charts sort of inside the results here. So we get like a ton, a ton of clicks from this. But what's interesting here is if I go back into like Claude, right? And we look at the sources here, like we're not, we're not, it's like they don't even see us. We're not cited at all or sorry, we're cited number two.

yeah that's not bad right i think yeah but they don't but they don't link to it here like no one's gonna click the no one's gonna actually click that drop and they're gonna hover over these and if we don't get quoted here we're not gonna get traffic from claude for that keyword yeah that's true but i i think s here is a long-term game and i think you should bet on one um thing that all lms will end up

searching internet before they produce any results and they will end up searching internet in a very similar way so basically as long so if you think that google is the best search on the internet and everybody's trying to be like google some use google some are building their own engines like that's similar to google i think uh just focusing on being on top of google

in the long term will actually solve all the other problems. Maybe in the short term you can hack it. - This is interesting. Yeah, it's interesting though, right? 'Cause look, like Zapier revenue, right? If you put this in here, okay, I got it, okay, interesting. So tap twice revenue is now in that top spot. We're in the second spot, so maybe that's why they recently changed. But what I don't understand is if you come in here

Like this is clearly like an SEO written article. Like it's really not, but like we have, it's the backlinks. It's the backlinks. So the anchor text that's used in the search, you have to take that text and add backlinks to your URL using that exact. But how do you know, but how do you know that they have more backlinks than we do? I guess if you actually test this, um,

URL for backlinks, not this site, but exactly the URL, you will see the anchors and the backlinks. I don't know.

Let me see here. Let me just do the main website. Tap twice digital. I guess where I see, look, they have such a low domain rating of 28. This is what I don't understand. We have better for someone looking for Zapier revenue. Would you rather look at a blog post like this or an actual interview where the source is the CEO's voice? Like, see, I've seen it actually have better data, but we're getting our butts kicked by some of these other tools that just like aggregate the data, you know,

It's because of the backlinks. So basically even a website with really poor domain rating can have high rating on a specific page. And the page rating is more important than the domain rating because Google actually looks at the page rating first. How do I look up the page rating in Ahrefs? Like do I just type in that full page like this? Yeah, yeah. But see like there's not like this shows up almost with like... Yeah, it's this URL. I guess that's the URL rating. But

I would say that like it's so it's so bad compared to us. I wouldn't trust this data because most likely that's something they've done recently and it's not shown here because

There's no chance Google would bring it to the top if there were a lot of backlinks on the same search query you just put there coming from other websites. Like look at ours. Look at our page compared to what we just saw, like 72 domain rating, 24 backlinks. See, that's what I don't understand. But we're getting less organic traffic now. Yeah, so your URL rating is 12, right? And I think theirs is higher. Oh, that's what matters for the OMS? Yeah.

Well, that matters for Google, right? Because when Google is trying to present something, the way it thinks is that if somebody has linked to this URL from other blog using this text.

I think it's just lack of data on Ahrefs for their website and that happens very often. For example, my websites, a lot of them have almost nothing on Ahrefs and the reality is different. So you think it's backwards? You don't think it's how they structure this? Like how they structure it in the bullet points, the H1 tags, the charts, the graphs. You don't think it's the actual structure of the HTML here? I think it might help but I've done what I'm telling now myself so

Few times I saw somebody on top of me on Google search results and I just picked the

I take the query and I do this backlinks to the URL with anchor text and eventually I took the number one spot. So that works definitely. And that's the most typical serious work you can do on SEO is to take page by page and just try to win against competitors using backlinks to that exact page. So you could try that, like do the experiment. So take this page and add-- - Look at this though. Do you see this?

How funny is this? I asked why it didn't use GitLatka. This is Google Gemini, right? And it said, well, actually, we use TapTwice Digital, which itself cited GitLatka. So we are the source of the data, yet we don't get the traffic value. And it even says, ah, I'm giving GitLatka credit. Yeah, that's interesting. It's kind of funny, isn't it? Look, we don't all know the answers to this. This is a quick-moving space. But I guess, do you have any advice for me just in general?

You should try that. So say it again. Just try to get 10 backlinks. So what was the search query you did? It was Zapier revenue. Yeah. So take that text and create backlinks to your URL where the text says exactly that. Can I submit it to your directory and you'll go get me a bunch of Zapier revenue backlinks? Yeah, yeah, that's possible.

Yeah, I guess the tricky part about that is like we have 35,000 of these pages. So do I go get backlinks for each page just one by one over and over? Well, the best thing to do is to have like your own websites, like the whole network of websites and automate this part because you're doing programmatic SEO and then you could automate that part too. But also, do you have enough inner links? Like do you link things to each other?

What do you mean? Do you have links to this Zapier revenue within your own...

blog and website like any yeah like if you go to like if you go to sas like sas database here like this page is going to link directly to the yeah but that page won't be seen by google because it's not static it's uh dynamic dynamic yeah so you have to make sure your actual intention is create more blog posts where inside of these blog posts we link back to that company profile page

Yeah, you should go crazy with links. So it's almost impossible to make it wrong. Like it's better to have more links than less links as long as those are internal links. And I see your blog now and it has almost no links and you should try to link to everything you have internally. You know, sometimes you can even link words. Like if you say Zapier,

in any of your blog, just link to that page about the revenue. And then you'll have hundreds of those links. And that works really well. So links often beat, like now, where do you link? Like scroll up, there was Zapier now.

Well, this is a different one, but you can see here it's using the same format as this one. You get the sense they all start to look the same, which is just a big summary of stuff. And they all cite me. They all cite Gitlatka, but Gitlatka is not getting the traffic. Yeah. I guess they do nofollow link to you, most likely. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting.

Interesting, interesting. So that's your biggest recommendation is if you're trying to get and show up in the LLM, get backlinks, focus on the UR rating here. Yeah, because you have really good website. You have really good content.

And I think you can 10x your clicks. You have really good impressions, but you're everywhere not on the top. You're like on the first page of a lot of the queries, but not on top. It means you have good content because the way to get to the top of the Google, like firsthand, is by having good content because Google tries to evaluate your content. But to get to the top, you have to have this precise anchor content.

links leading to your URL both internally and externally from other websites and from your own website Yeah, yeah, very cool. Well look this was a ton of fun I feel like I just got like deep deep into your brain They're going through this so if people want to learn more about you They can obviously go to listing bot.com then go to SEO bot. They can follow you on Twitter anything else You want to shout out? Yeah, I mean I'm

I'm one of the most open founder on X. I think I share something every day and I'm trying to share things which are useful for people so that they can apply that about growth, about building stuff, about ideating and also how to start from zero. And the way I learned things in the past was by following people on Twitter.

and reading what they say. And a lot of people now are asking me, like, how can I start? How can I start learning, build, you know, this startup thing? And I'm like, you have to follow the people and just get into their brains, like see how they act, see how they think, see how they reason, and then you'll start doing the same. So that's my advice. Guys,

There you have it, John Rush. He was working for a bunch of VCs before then said, you know what? I'm going to build my own studio of startups over 24 today. The biggest one is SEO bot doing $120,000 a month in revenue. Very profitable. Only two people on the team. So $720,000 in revenue per employee. 30% of that growth is coming from SEO. 30% from cross promotions.

30% from social media. His second biggest tool listing bot. He owns 90% of 50 K of MRR and it's not SAS. It's a one-time payment, but a thousand new buyers are coming in every single month. He's built a programmatic way to keep launching great new tools with really smart SEO strategies in this new age of AI. Check them out on X John rush. Thanks for taking us to the top.