#40 - Deiaa AlOthman - Balancing Ambition and Family: Lessons from the First Female COO in Kuwait's Banking Sector
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When you are excellent, you become unforgettable. Welcome to In Bloom. I am your host, Leigh Boundary, and this is a Front Humanity Podcast. Welcome to the In Bloom Podcast. I'm Ella, and I'm so excited and delighted that you've joined me here today. My guest today is Dia, a woman whose journey began in a family that met with world leaders and diplomats often, but was abruptly transformed by war and invasion.

It was a dramatic start to her life, very different than what any of us can relate to. But the learnings that she wants to share with us can apply to anyone. And the challenges that she has faced and continues to face afterwards, I think a lot of us can resonate with.

Her story is one of remarkable resilience and achievement. She navigated her way from chaos to becoming an incredible leader in the business and banking world. She broke barriers as the first Kuwaiti woman to secure a C-suite position in her field, all while balancing the demands of motherhood and family life.

She's done so many amazing things. But the thing that really stuck out to me in this interview is the path that she took to achieve all of these amazing things. The ways that she didn't compromise, the ways that she excelled even in difficult moments.

Today, we will talk about how she proved herself as a competent and capable leader in a very difficult environment, how she balanced her career life as well as personal ambitions, how she balances femininity and masculinity in her role, and why that's so important to her.

Today, Dia is going to share her story, and I highly recommend that you pay attention and extract the lessons from her journey that can apply to your life, your situations. Either you're trying to climb the corporate ladder, trying to achieve something incredible like going to Harvard, trying to be a present parent, trying to put your family first, no matter the challenges or struggles that you're facing. Maybe you're even contemplating your next career move. I think her insights offer a really valuable perspective.

My hope is that by the end of this episode, you'll view your own challenges through a new lens, that you'll be inspired to pursue the things you've always dreamed of pursuing, and that you'll finally have answers to questions that you've been asking for a long time. So with that, let's get into the episode. Dia, thank you for being here. I wanted to start with the question, what is important for me to understand about your story and where you came from to understand who you are now and your success?

I come from a diplomatic family. I was born in Rome, Italy, and I lived in different countries, went into different schools, and I saw different cultures. And I have so many friends from international backgrounds. Yeah.

Yeah, we were talking about this a little bit before and you were saying that your dad did a great job of including you in all of his business things, right? Like different dinners and different experiences. And so you and your siblings got this incredible opportunity to be around just amazing leaders of the world. Very, very respectable people, very intelligent people. What was that experience like for you? What did you take away from it most? What were your learnings?

Yeah, I was lucky to have parents like my dad and my mom, including us in most of the events that are taking place in those countries. So we were always on the front line with them in the receptions and dinners and receiving people and speaking to them.

this had a huge impact on me as a person and on developing my character, I can say. How would you say that it developed your character? What would, like, whenever you reflect on it, what do you think you grew most in? Because I imagine if you're, you know, just talking to athletes, like, it's very, very normal to,

You know, you see the humanity inside of these people. You see the lives that they have. They are not these flashy characters. They're humans. Right. But then on the other side, it's also like, okay, achieving success is extremely doable and possible because I see it in front of me. Right. The people that so few people get to see and experience and learn from, like you get to learn from. It's a huge, yeah, it's a huge, I mean, huge.

It was a huge opportunity because we met with actors. Imagine, I was six years old or seven years old, and I was meeting with actors, famous actors, coming to my home and meeting with His Highness the Emir, again coming to our home. At that young age, it of course builds your...

self-esteem builds your confidence and you feel more sure of yourself or yeah it builds you it builds you from the from the base or the structure it gives you the right base to start on I mean even to go to school and say that I met with this football player well I met with and he was in our house and showed the pictures you know how it is

So yeah, it has a huge impact on personalities, of course. What was your dad like? My dad is my strength in life. My dad is my role model and he's everything. He has this special character whenever he enters a place. He has the aura of success, I can say that.

And he's so respectful. So even if we go to a place for the first time, I mean, once people see him, they will immediately speak to him in a good way. I mean, I don't know how, but it shows like he's from, he was brought up in a good manner. So he was humble down to earth, but he was firm and strong. I can say he was a real man. And I try as much as I can to,

raise my sons in the same way. I lost my dad back in 2016 and it was the biggest loss in my life. I try as much as I can to remember the good advices and good things that I took from him. And I was so attached to him, like even more than my mom. So yeah, I was...

What do you call it? My daddy's daughter or something? I don't know. What was the best advice he ever gave you? Again, he didn't give me advices as much as I was with him everywhere. And that's how I decided to go into study in Harvard. He took us, all six of us, to America, travel to America from Kuwait. It used to be 24 hours travel. It's not as now it is 14 hours travel.

He took us on a trip and I didn't understand it until I was older. And this trip we went into, so it was, he did this program where, well, I don't know how he did the program because again, at that time we didn't have media, we don't have internet. So he did it through networking, I guess. And the phones were awful. You know how it was. I'm speaking about 80s, late 80s, late 80s, I think, or maybe early 90s, somewhere there.

So he did this trip where we went into different states in America. So we went, we visited CNN. I don't know why. We were kids, six kids. So he took us on a tour there. And then he took us on a tour to see the space, which is called NASA. He took us to Harvard University.

And he said, I have to tell you that this place has the, this is the best university in the world. And so many successful people have graduated from here. Well, I highly recommend that you study here. This is the only thing that he said. And he took us on a tour. It was the first time for him even to go there. So we walked around the Harvard yard. And since then I had it in my head and I told him at the time,

I told him, Baba, I'm going to study here one day. Oh, look, I've done it. Like 30 years later, I've done it. So I've written this also in my application for when I was applying for the Harvard Business School course. So again, it's not advices. It's showing by example.

And this is what I'm using also with my kids now. I lead by example.

Did he always expect a lot from you? Like he takes you to CNN, he takes you to NASA, he takes you to Harvard. Like these are, these aren't, you know, your regular excursions for families. Yeah. Like he was obviously trying to teach you a lot of things. Did he always expect a lot of you? And did he match that with just the, the confidence that he knew that you could achieve these things? Um, yeah.

Yeah, so it was a balance between, like, it was one day six flags, the other day CNN. The day after that, we would go to the zoo or whatever. We didn't feel that he's pushing us because it was our decision. It was just, he was just showing us what's available and giving us the opportunity. I mean, no one of us went to NASA, for example, I mean, or to CNN or worked in media.

So it was me only that decided to go into Harvard. I had it in my mind. So I loved his way of raising us. And I try as much as I can to use it in my family.

Yeah, I love that. I'm going to come back and ask you some more questions about your family, but can you tell me what you do now and how you got there? So your career, kind of like what that journey was like? So I knew since high school that I wanted to work as a banker. I had this because we used to travel a lot. So I used to travel to Geneva, London, Europe, and to the States, and

since we were young and traveling is is is really good because it adds a lot to to the way that you shape your thoughts to the way that you think and to the way that you deal with people um so uh

I've always seen people who work in banks, like the managers, the way that they dress up and the way that they carry their bags. And I loved it. So I said, one day I'll be a banker. And this is what I chose. So I've studied finance and banking in Kuwait University. And then I worked in banks in different sections of departments of the bank. I started in corporate and then international banking.

And then because of my background in international, I worked as, I held the financial institutions department, which is basically the international banking. That's the face of the bank into international market. So, yeah.

I was the relationship for the different international banks like JP Morgan, HSBC. Then I stayed in one of the banks because I was so happy there. It was spoiled and it was my comfort zone. So I stayed for more than 15 years in that bank. And maybe this goes to balancing between raising my family and having a career. So what I did is that I tried as much as I can to

to balance between those. Of course, family comes first. So if my son is sick and I have a meeting, I will cancel the meeting and go to my son, for example. If there is a school event and there is, again, something that I had to do for work, I'll either change the time, but family always comes first. So this, of course, had an effect on my career life. So I was like,

slower in my career. And then I decided to go to Harvard to try to develop my career life. What were you seeking whenever you went to Harvard? When I decided to study in Harvard,

My goal was, first of all, that I had it in my childhood. So I know that I want to study one day in Harvard. And I wanted to do it really on the right time. And it was, I felt like it's the right time to do it. So I applied for the university. And it was a good timing because it was the same time that my daughter was going studying abroad in Boston, which is the same city. So, yeah.

And I felt like it's the time for me to get into a different stage of life. I wanted to feel more into the achievement phase of life more than on the working side. So by joining or by being accepted at Harvard, that was a huge success, of course. It was a dream that came true and I loved it.

The experience was amazing. I loved everything in Harvard and in the course itself. Yeah, and I can say that it's a huge jump or it's a huge development of my life and the family side and in the career. Yeah, I love that. You mentioned that...

That you worked in banks initially. So were you working primarily with other men or was this a field where there were a lot of women in it as well? It was mixed. It was mixed. But at the time I joined, they were not hiring women in corporate departments.

Because the corporate work needs to be more to do visits out of the bank and to be more into meetings and tough decisions. So I fought, of course. And I decided to be a corporate manager. And...

Yeah, I was, yeah, Alhamdulillah, I was successful in that. I did so many things to prove to them that I can do it. And I'm a fighter by nature. So when I want something, I'll have to get it and I'll do everything to get it. So yeah.

I had to speak to them and then I had to do some meetings and then tests and those kind of things. And then I proved and I could be, and I was accepted in that role after meeting everyone. I mean, I met, I think I met the board and I met with the chairman and everyone just to, just to clear on that. I can do it. And the irony of that, that I've done it for, uh,

I think, two years. And then I decided it's not my area. I didn't like it. And it's okay. So I decided to change and be, I mean, one of my managers actually told me that you'll do very well in the international banking because of your background. And it was a great advice. I trusted him at that time.

And that was true. I mean, I worked in the international banking and I loved it. Whenever you were in this position, right? And you were like, okay,

You mentioned that you're a fighter by nature and that there were a lot of things to prove or that there were, there were ways that you wanted to excel. There were ways that you wanted to succeed and show that you were capable. What did excellence look like in that role specifically? And how did you, like, were you putting in extra hours? Were you just showing up and doing your job as well as you could in that moment? Like, how did you not only, you know, do a good job, but also set yourself apart as somebody that

was excelling in a lot of things. I'll go a step back and I'll just mention that I'm a very shy person. Very, very, very, very shy person in nature. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, my mom worked on that a lot. And I spoke to you earlier about the invasion of Kuwait. And I mean, it hit us in the age of when I was 15 years old.

And this time also of my life had a great impact on building my personality. And so there was a lot of things that I had to handle, like being shy, fighter, pushing myself. And...

I felt a lot of anger, of unsafe, and of... At that age, like when you're 15, you're a teenager and you have a lot of strength and... I don't know how to say it, youth power. So you think that you can do everything. So if you're sitting and you see in front of you...

a soldier having a gun on his hand and looking at you and humiliating your dad and your brothers and everyone of the family, you wouldn't stand it. You'd have to speak. And you have to be a fighter. You have to be strong.

So this is also, this has happened to me and I felt it like I had to defend. We went through a lot in that time. So it built the fighter side of me, I guess. And it's built maybe the excellence, I can say that, because I want to succeed. I want to show how...

How life is unfair. Like, for example, it's an invasion. We have, suddenly we have nothing. We don't have money. We don't have house. They are everywhere. They took everything. And you just wake up without anything. So it wasn't something easy that has happened at that young age for me. How did your family handle it? What was their response? And how did, like, how did y'all overcome that? It was our first year of returning back from the embassy.

So the way that it goes, like you go to one country and stay like four to five years and then come back to Kuwait as station, stay two years and then go to another country. So this was our first year coming back to Kuwait. So we're not even used to staying in the country. And the invasion happened. That was back in 1990. And it was tough on all of us because, as you know, we have lots of contacts. So everyone was calling us from everywhere.

Come stay with us. We have the houses. We have the so-and-so. You don't have to stay in Kuwait. But my dad was... Actually, my family, my dad, my mom, all of us, we decided to stay and fight. We didn't want to leave the country because it's our country and we need to defend it. So we stayed. And it was hard because...

It's the first time I see guns. It's the first time I see my dad digging in the yard to hide the guns under the sand. My mom was taking the pictures of my dad and other pictures with the emir, with the important people and tearing them because we don't want them to know who we are.

It was really tough. I mean, at one point we had an explosion in our house because they wanted us to get out from the house. So imagine it was a full explosion. So it was a lot of emotional feelings. Like, I mean, humanity. I mean, you shouldn't do that. And they're Iraqis, they're Arabs, they're Muslims, they're like us. So it was tough for us to understand all of this.

in a very short time. But again, I mean, everything that goes into our lives has part of us strengthen us and build part of our characters, I guess. Yeah. Do you think it changes your perception of the moment that you're in now? Like, does it make you more grateful for either the peace that we have or the opportunity? Faith. Faith, Ella. Faith. If I believe faith,

We say Allah, Allah is God. So Allah is great because at that time, the feeling that we had, I felt like I'm the strongest person on earth because I have nothing to lose. If I lose my life, then I'm going to be a martyr and I'm going to heaven. And if I'm going to stay and defend my country and win, then I'm a winner. So in either cases...

we are winners. So faith is very important and believing in Allah and God and in his power and his greatness. It's the thing that keep us survive, I mean survived at that time and now even. So yeah, a lot of belief, surrender to Allah was our way of success.

And this all happened, by the way, in seven months. By the seven months. Oh, my God. Yeah, we were liberated. So I went through war and then invasion, full invasion. Imagine in our times, like they were literally in our house. Wallah, they were in our house. I see them. I can still visualize them. And then we saw them out. And then we saw their, what do you say when they kill them? What do you say?

their bodies burnt or their bodies were just thrown in the streets. I mean, we used to smell the bodies burnt. So I still have this in my memory. It's tough. So we knew that some of them were killed because we can see the smoke and we can smell them. Wow. It wasn't an easy phase of my life, but it was something that...

I am grateful that I lived through it. And I am also grateful that I was at the age of, that I can remember all the details. I keep telling my kids about it. What do you want them to learn from it? Or what do you want them to take away? I want them to learn that you have to depend always on Allah.

and believe in his greatness and he's merciful and he will help us in each and every way. We just have to pray for God and we will get whatever we need. Saying that, we have to work hard to get into our goals and to reach whatever we have in our mind because at the end, we are here, we are living here to live.

to make an impact and to have, I mean, why, I mean, I will go back to why we were created, for example, why I'm here, why Ella's here, why are we talking now? Because we need to keep, we need, we need to have a legacy. I mean, one day I have to, to, to leave a mark in, in, in, in other people's life. And in, I mean, I have to achieve something for my kids, for my country, for my family.

people for the environment and the I mean we were created to do a certain to deliver a certain mission I believe so each one is created individually so no one is like the other even brothers and sisters

We just need to focus and know what we are doing and why we are doing it. So part of the success that I'm, or my, how can I say, legacy, glory, whatever, happiness, is when I see my kids are growing up in a healthy way. They are in a good position. I see my mom is happy and I'm always with her. I see the people who works with me because now I have a very senior position

And this senior position, I'm also responsible for the team that I'm working with. So as much as I can, I have to empower them. And I have to show gratitude for the people who assist me and help me. So I believe also having the right network, right friends, right people surrounding you is important.

It's very powerful. I love this. So I want to take this a little bit back to one of the things that you said a little while ago, and you're talking about your career in banking and you were saying that, you know,

You had made the decision that family comes first. Was that a cultural decision or why did you make that decision? And were you aware of the costs? Because you said that that period of your life was a little bit slower and the career progression wasn't as fast. Why was that a cost that you were willing to bear? Because I believe my role as a woman is to raise my kids and my family.

That's the main goal or that's the main, I mean, we mothers are here to raise a family. If I don't believe that a family, I mean, it's difficult for a family to grow and be healthy without a mother. We can live without a father. I'm sorry, I can say that. But without a mother, I mean, it's so difficult.

And unless you're lucky with a very good father, I mean, that's something different. But usually you would, a mother is everything. I mean, for the kids, for the husband, for the family. So I believed in my main role is family. If I do the career or the work that I'm doing, it would be on family.

It would come after that. So again, that's a decision that I might be wrong because other people in my age are now in much senior positions because they focused on their career more, I guess, or they were luckier, maybe, I don't know. Yeah, why, like looking back, would you ever do it differently? Yeah, I might.

I might, because I'm an achiever and because I'm a fighter and because I do things, once I get a decision on something, I action it immediately. So I don't wait, for example, for my husband to do something. I'll immediately do it. So I ended up having everything on my head.

So I'm responsible for everything while Aram, he tries, but I always go, I mean, I always take decision and do it before he even can decide on that or action it. Yeah, I guess. So if times goes back, I think I'll be more relaxed and give him more opportunities to have his role, maybe. Why do you think that's important?

Or why does that stand out to you? This is something that I've learned from my lovely Trugret, the learning group in Harvard. I've learned that I have to focus on myself first. And if I become a happy person, then I can assist the others. So each person has different qualities and they're great qualities. You just need to have your time.

sit sit and reflect on the things that you have in your life and be more organized I can use organized 10 times maybe because I had the qualities from long time but it was used by by others willingly from me of course so I was generous with everyone with I was a giver so everyone used me and then my time would go without focusing on the things that I wanted to achieve so I learned in a

I have to still be generous and still be a giver and a good person and whatever. But I have to have a goal and to be more organized in succeeding in life. I can say that. So I learned how to put some barriers, for example, and how to focus on whatever I want and have time for myself. I can say that.

How do you balance that? Like, how do you, especially whenever you're a mother, right, balancing, creating barriers while also giving people the time? You know, you're talking about your mom and your aunties and how they were so gracious with their time, how they gave it to a lot of people and how they, you know, cultivated a space and cultivated a home.

And like, that's very feminine and that's very, very valuable, especially for families. How do you balance, you know, your desire to do something like that, let's say, and give people your time to cultivate things, to create these experiences while also creating that time for yourself where, you know, you pursue the things that you want to, you pursue the things that make you excited and passionate and develop that sense of self inside of yourself. Oh, thank you for this beautiful question. I love it.

Yeah, I was blessed, lucky to have those role models, women in my life, like my mom. God bless her. My mom is, I'm still living under my mom's advice and my mom's wisdom.

I was lucky enough to live also a huge part of my life with my grandmother and with my aunties. Those were role models of kindness, of warmthness, I can say, of strength. So they used to be very firm on things and very soft and gentle and kind on other things. So I've learned how to balance between

I always remember them and I've learned how to balance, again by example, to balance between those things by living with them and by seeing how they interact with people, how they decide on things and how they pursue their decisions in their lives. I believe decision making is one of the most difficult things in life, to take a decision. And then once you take a decision,

that means you need to do it, you need to action it, or else you'll be in a worse situation. Yeah, I'm very grateful for the women that I have lived with, my grandparents, my grandmother, my aunties, my mom especially. And I try as much as I can to use the wisdom that I got from them.

Yeah. What does that look like in practice too? You were saying that they balanced firmness and softness. And I feel like something that I've been very attuned to recently is how, as women in a lot of roles, we take on firmness in the work setting, right? But then we don't balance it with softness or like, it's really, really hard to find that balance where you take

you know embody this firmness inside of your work and then you come home and it's like okay now I'm supposed to be softer or like now I'm supposed to have a little bit more balance where I can be soft to my you know young child or like I can create what I need to create in the moment or respond how I need to respond did you ever find that difficult um again great question um

It's, I don't find it difficult. It's the way that I deal with things. Like once I'm in work, I know that I have to be firm. I know that I have to deal with people in a very clear and informative way. I might need to use some more rules being in the office with different people or staff that I'm dealing with.

I do the same with my kids. So I'm friends with my kids. I don't remember once I have shouted at them or I beat them or anything like that. But I know how to balance it and I know how to... So if they see me upset, they will never do this again. And they're having fun with me. So even their friends, they call me cool mom. Yeah.

Because I do everything with them. Yes, I am. And I do everything with them. I laugh with them a lot. I go with them to concerts. I play with them. I dance with them. So I try as much as I can to enjoy my life while living with them. Because again, you don't want to miss living your life because you're waiting for this to happen or that to happen.

So as much as I can, I want to live each and every moment. And I try as much as I can to be happy in that moment and to enjoy it.

without hurting anyone, without doing anything bad, without, I mean, focusing on my morals and my ethics. So I believe also this is part of success and that balance between what you want to do and how you can have fun. It's not easy to raise kids and to take care of a family and to do a career. Yeah. What helps? What helps? Yes.

focusing and trying as much as you can to enjoy it. And you have to be, I mean, I always make sure that I take the right decision on the right time. And again, trust people that are around you and have the right circle. If I need help, I'll have to ask for help. And I do that every time.

So, yeah, I do that. I ask for help and I ask. It's not necessarily that I would follow what others would say, but even, believe me, like even talking about the problem, sharing it with someone, it will make my mind think in a different way. So while I'm saying it, I will recognize things and I might find the solution. Or maybe it's just me, I don't know. This is what works with me. So, yeah.

Yeah, and people love it once you start sharing with them things that, I mean, once they feel that you trust them and you start asking them about different things, you will be, I mean, I was happy with the answers that I got. Again, this is all from true grit. I didn't have it before. After I finished the first year in Harvard, the PLD,

I felt like I grew a lot in many aspects and many good things started happening to me. It was like a miracle. So I started attracting good things. I don't know how, maybe because I was happy. I felt like I had a lot of achievements and success and it's Harvard. So I was so happy with that.

Things started coming to me like opportunities, like job opportunities, work. I mean, people were more friendly to me. I felt like I entered into a different life. And I was so lucky. I really enjoyed it. And I made use of it. So when I returned back to finish module five, I had to take another decision, which is moving out from my job.

my job at that time to a different career, which is, I mean, I've been always working on financial institutions, corporate and international banking. And the opportunity that I got was as chief operating officer, which is more into operations and back office work rather than fronting the business. And so that was a huge decision to take. One of my friends helped me in taking the decision and

And immediately I resigned while I was on campus. So I actioned it at the same time. And I accepted the offer from the International Bank. I became the first chief operating officer. It's a C-suite position. The first Kuwaiti woman in a position as a chief operating officer.

in banks. Again, that was another success and I was so happy for it. Wow. Yeah, I think if you work hard and you, I believe if you work hard and you have good intentions, it's a must that you get rewarded for that. I believe this is what I get in my life. Good intentions brings, with hard work and with determination, with focus,

surrounding yourself with the right people will get you into great achievements that you never even dreamt of. I mean, I'm also so proud that I was part of the GCC conference, which is the first Gulf countries conference. We did it in Harvard. It was myself and Saad Atami. He's a student at the time he was a student in Harvard School.

Harvard University. So that was, again, a huge success. We invited people. We created like a bridge between the U.S. and the GCC to show their talents. And it was in all aspects like sports, space, investments, politics. I mean, in everything. Again, it was a huge success. And I'm so happy and proud that I've been part of that.

Your journey has actually, it's been incredible. And I love your emphasis on goal setting, like to pursue and to achieve great things. You have to decide what it, what is it that I want and what is it that I'm aiming towards? And then your emphasis also on your family and the fact that sometimes you have to go slower and then there are a lot of things that you have to do to get there.

There are different times in your life whenever you can pick up speed. So like before you had your family, I bet you're going faster and then you have your family. So you go a little slower and now that your children are older and it's a little bit easier for you to pick up speed again and to,

create that time for yourself, like now pursuing more. Um, I think that emphasis is really important. The last question that I had before I hit you with a couple of rapid fire questions, which is basically like a couple of questions that you can answer as quickly as, as like as fast as you can, but also, um, if you have to think about it, no problem. Um,

The last question that I had for you kind of to wrap up this whole idea of like pursuit and, um, and, you know, aspiring toward an incredible life is what do you do? What do you specifically turn to in the moments whenever it's hard? Because there are moments whenever, you know, life happens and something in your family happens or work is just extra stressful or like, um,

It just feels like the world is on fire a little bit. What do you turn to in those moments? I will immediately pray to God. I believe by praying and asking for

clarity on my life, on my decisions, on what I intend to do is something very important. So the first thing I will do is that I will surrender and I will ask for guidance from Allah, from God. And I'll try to have my time to think about whatever struggle that I've been going through. Yeah, and I'll try to... Maybe I'll talk to... Because I have...

Alhamdulillah, I'm blessed. I have so many connections. I'll try as much as I can to choose the right person for that kind of problem that I trust. And I'll speak to him or to her about it and see what kind of advice they will give me. And I usually take my decisions in a very slow, I mean, I'll take my time.

So I make sure that whenever I decide on something that I won't regret it, especially if it was like a life decision. Like if it is something that's really important, like my family or my career or a development of like my kids studying abroad or something that's very essential in my life.

If your question was about struggles, that means problems when I'm down. I will just ask guidance from Allah, from God, and I might cry a little bit. I want to say that because you're a manager, because you are a leader, and you have to have your feminine side always.

I mean, I'm a woman. I'm successful as a woman. So I don't have to be that tough on myself or in others. So this is also something that's not easy. You have to work on it in your personality because people might not take you seriously if you're too nice. And if you're too tough, people will be scared of you or

won't be happy dealing with you. So again, you have to balance those things. I love that answer. Okay. I'll hit you with a couple of rapid fire questions and then I'll let you get back to your family. So question number one, what advice would you give to your daughter now reflecting on your own journey about success, about, you know, the life that she might live or she might choose?

Focus on your life, know your goals, and enjoy your life. Enjoy every minute that you're living. You have to always know that you can enjoy life as long as you don't do the wrong things. So this is, again, a clear barrier, if I can say. And I always tell my kids that. I told it for Joa and for Dari, both of them who are studying in the States. You have to be as much as you can be out of problems,

but enjoy your life and have goals set set your goals and have the right friends

surrounding you. I mean, the circle of friends is very important. I love that answer. And the last question, what activities, hobbies, or things fill you up on your off time? Traveling. I love to travel. I like reading and swimming, scuba diving, a lot of sports that, yeah, hiking,

Yeah, a lot of sports that I do. I love that. Thank you so, so, so much for all of your wisdom. This was absolutely incredible and getting to hear your story and getting to hear all the things that you've learned, all the ways that you continue to balance, you know, the

self side of life, the personal pursuits, and then also family and culture and faith and the things that matter to you as well outside of it. It was just such a gift. Thank you. Thank you, Ella, for this opportunity. I loved it. And it's my first time to be in this kind of interview, I can say, or a podcast. I'm so happy. And thank you again. This episode enriching.

I'm looking forward to our next episode. Cheers. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that.