#50 - Can Traditional Values Actually Become An Advantage In Life & Career with Vahbiz Cooper
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Welcome to the In Bloom Podcast. I'm Ella, your host, and we explore what it means to design a life that you can be so fulfilled and proud by. Today, we are sitting down with Vibiz Cooper. She is a marketing professional at Demandbase, and she beautifully balances traditional values with modern life. From

From her upbringing between Mumbai and Dubai to her current life in Pune, India, Vibhiz has learned quite a bit. In our conversation, she opens up about redefining success beyond material possessions, learning the crucial skill of saying no in her career, which I definitely need to learn still sometimes, and what it takes to truly build a lasting marriage.

She shares that it started with college carpools over a decade ago, and now they're still going strong. Her journey offers a really refreshing perspective on how both your culture and tradition can become a true advantage in helping you create the life that you want. With that, let's get into the episode. You are excellent. You become unforgettable. Welcome to Haley. I am your host, Lisa Almond-Trimm, and this is a Frag Humanity Podcast.

Welcome to the podcast Babiz. I wanted to ask, so very, very beginning, before we get into your story, where you are now, what you've done with your career, I wanted to understand your upbringing. So you come from an Indian family. How has that shaped who you are today?

So I'm, I stay in Pune at the moment. I've been born and raised in Mumbai, so I'm a very Mumbai girl at heart. But yeah, I mean, I love Pune. It's home now. And I was actually raised in Mumbai till I was 12. And my mom used to be, she used to work at Emirates. So we, most of our teenage slash adult upbringing happened in Dubai, where we were really spoiled.

And, you know, we had a blast over there and then we decided to come back to India and settle over here. In terms of, you know, my upbringing, I feel like it was very value based. We were taught, you know, discipline and mastermind.

manners and, you know, a lot of like the good stuff that every family teaches right from the start. One thing I think that stands out for our family is that respect goes both ways. Usually in traditionally, it's like, oh, they're elders. So, you know, by default, they get that respect. That is something that stands out to me in my family, that respect goes both ways. Like if you see somebody who is elder to you,

And they are like, you know, being a little disrespectful, you're free to draw boundaries, like you don't have to go blasting them, but you're free to draw boundaries. It's not like, oh, you still have to respect them, you still have to invite them to your functions and things like that. So I'm happy that that is something that I can carry on further.

Yeah. And whenever you say that your upbringing was very values based and that that was something that was very important to your family and your parents, what did that look like? Like, did they embody it? Did they talk about it? Like, how did they, how did they instill these values in you?

I think they just did it. Like, I don't ever, you know, recall my mom or my dad, like, pestering, like, oh, this is what it is. I think, like, I just saw them do it. And I think that's how kids learn. Like, they just see their parents doing it and they pick it up along the way. So I just think that they had, like,

probably pre-decided this is how we're going to raise up our kids. And I just saw them being like kind to each other and, you know, loving each other and, you know, being there for each other. So I think that is something that I just saw luckily growing up. And that is something that I'm going to carry on in my family.

I love that. And I wonder if you could share a little bit about the definition of success that you inherited and then did that change at any point? So obviously they're instilling values in you. They're instilling all these things in you and showing you their life. And you were talking about Dubai and Dubai is a crazy world. So what was the image of success that you had? And then did you ever develop it yourself?

Well, yeah. So initially, like, you know, in the teens, especially success looked like having everything like you wanted the good car, you wanted the good, you know, jewelry, you wanted all of the luxury items, so to say. So definitely, that is what success looked like, especially when you're growing up in a place like Dubai.

Once we started running on our own, we realized that, you know, the value of those things is so much less versus the value of, you know, being together, having dinner at the same table or, you know, like praying together or just like hanging out together. So as I like grew and matured, definitely success now means like, you know, having a good family, peaceful, quiet.

you know, not too much chaos that we see in, you know, certain parts of the world. And yeah, I think it's, it's beautiful now from where we feel like I would have loved to have that watch or that car. And now sitting here and be like, I'm really satisfied. I think it's,

in one sentence, I feel like success is just being satisfied with what you have at the moment. Not that you shouldn't dream about, you know, good things or luxurious things, but you shouldn't, you know, be hurtful to others or, you know, try to gain those things with unsuccessful methodologies. Yeah. Yeah. And were you taught from a young age to work really hard?

So actually, both my parents worked really hard over there in Dubai. I've seen since my dad used to, you know, when we were in school, he used to pick me up and drop me. I've seen him like visually more, not that my mom didn't work hard. So I think that was something that I just picked up along the way. Like we we had to like be patient as well. When my dad used to have like other work, he had to like drop certain documents in certain offices before we like go back home.

home. So I've seen him like also like waiting in queues and getting his work done. So along with like hard work, I've also seen him like being really patient. So I think that is just something I saw and picked up along the way.

Though patience is something I can still work on. The same. No, the same. How do you define what satisfies you in the moment? I'm curious if, like, you've sat with that question and, like, how are you cultivating a life that is satisfying to you, right? This new definition of success that you have. Yeah. I think I'm just...

started starting to be like grateful for the things like sometimes when we see things on a news or we hear like certain stories from family friends or whatsapp groups it's really saddening to see what's going on in certain people's lives in the world like globally so i think

it's like really important to be grateful. You have like food on your table. You have a roof on your head. There are people out there like dying and they're not, they're not having access to basic resources that are necessary for human life. So you need to like start being super, super, super grateful for all these things that you,

that we usually just take this for granted. So yeah, you should be really grateful that there's everything that you need for basic survival and more that you have.

on your plate or in your home. Yeah, I think that's important. Yeah, no, I would agree with that. That's something that I've been sitting with a lot too is like, just being grateful in a moment for the things that you have changes the way that you interact with them changes the way that you, you know, just the way that you show your appreciation for them in a moment. And then that impacts the long term. So it's like in my life, at least like, for example, there's a really, really high percentage of people that get divorced in the US. I wonder if

What number is that in India?

I'm unfortunately not sure, but it's got to be a lot lower. Yeah, I'm sure it should be a lot lower. But again, like, you know, it's not like how it used to be in the past. Like women are speaking up now and, you know, they are trying to be like independent. And like initially it used to be that there were like pockets of, you know, places in the Indian society where we were asked for the woman to be quiet, to, you know,

like adjust with the families and all that's definitely changing drastically so I'm sure the rates have gone higher than what they used to be but I don't think we've touched that high yet

Yeah, it's right now it's it's a really, really high number. And I think it's 60 plus, maybe more. And so like sitting at the stage of my life that I'm in and like looking forward to marriage and being like, okay, like, this is a truth, right? The, the rule or like the the reasonable percentage is that like you get divorced.

And then first, you have to very intentionally say, okay, that's not going to be me. But honestly, something that's so underrated, and I was just thinking about this with my brother is just being grateful in a moment, like being grateful for the person that you have with you and being grateful for who they are. Yeah, so that's definitely an underrated trait for sure. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

One thing that I wanted to kick us off and go back to a little bit was the support system of your family and culture. So what does that look like? Like, obviously, the support system inside of American families is a little bit different than the support system inside of Indian families. Can you paint that picture? And like, what do you love about the support system inside of your family?

I think that no matter what, no matter how many fights we have, no matter how many arguments we have, at the end of the day, everybody is still there for each other. I don't think personally, unless like something really majorly drastically happens, there's any need for like,

A family do not be there for each other or support each other and, you know, there's nothing that communication can't solve. Like, I would be lying if I said, like, oh, like, everything is like, you know, so hunky dory and everybody's family here in India.

definitely people have arguments and they have arguments with their parents, their siblings, their spouses. But I think, you know, it's so important to communicate. And also like one thing I learned like along the way through my marriage is there is a way to communicate things. Like if you just go blasting to anybody, like not just a spouse, like if you just go blasting and, you know, you just throw your emotions on the particular person, they're not going to like

understand it or even if they want to like try to understand it they're just going to start getting super defensive so of course like I have had like um

situations where I'm really, really, really heated and I just want to, you know, you know, blast off. But it's always better to take like some time to breathe, take half an hour, one hour, whatever you're comfortable with. And, you know, try to gather your thoughts because when you're really angry or when you're really pissed off, like there are like a lot of thoughts that come in and then there are like arguments that

shouldn't really be happening like things that happened in the past then you start digging all of that up that's not healthy for any form of relationship with like be it parents or siblings or like partner spouse whatever so it's always good to like

say like things nicely, but still like for me, like you don't want people to walk over you or like disrespect your boundaries, but you should be clear like, hey, this is what it is. And this is what I didn't like versus like, oh, you did this. And how could you do this? And other things that we also realize staying like in the family is sometimes people mean well, like,

You know, it's just that how it came out. Yeah, it's not that because they did something, they mean harm to you. Like they must be, they must have come from a different perspective. So it's equally important as important it is to like say it nicely. It's equally important to give the opposite person a chance to speak as well. And you be the listening party.

Because sometimes it's just like a small misunderstanding that blows out of proportion. And that's not really needed. So it's all like you can keep your point first. You know, I mean, I usually prefer I want to talk first. But it's also equally important that you listen. Like once you're done talking.

You should be respectful and hear what the person's got to say. That would also clear up a lot of things. Yeah, I like the emphasis on believing that people are well-intentioned. Like if there's a consistent pattern and like, and obviously something's off, then okay, fine. But believing that most people are well-intentioned and that most of the time they're going to try and do what's good, but sometimes they just don't know what's good for you. Like, I think that's a good rule of thumb.

I'm curious if like whenever you look back as like think on this year, how many times do you hang out with your family or like how many times do you all gather together? Because I think that's something that like that is so, so incredible inside of certain cultures is just it's it's.

they're close but it's not just that they're close it's that they gather often yeah we definitely meet up almost once or twice a month sometimes even once or twice a week when they're like birthdays people's birthdays are really close to each other but otherwise definitely like once or twice a month my parents don't stay that far away from where I reside so I'm a little lucky in that

So we definitely meet up regularly and we try to like whenever we are meeting up also, we try to like take the load off each other. Like, hey, you cook this, you cook that. Usually I just bring the sweets because they're the easiest to, you know, OK, I'll get this dessert. I'll get the sweets. But I love when the moms from both ends cook. They're fantastic cooks. So I love to eat all of that food and it's like recipe for me. So, yeah.

No, I think that's important as well. And something that I noticed especially, so my culture is Mexican. And whenever I went back to Mexico with one of my good friends, her family meets like

like you were saying, like once, twice, sometimes three times a month and sometimes twice in a week because there's two birthdays, right? And it's like as much as they can get together, they do. As much as they can celebrate things, they do. And I think that that's something that is really, really crucial and important. Just like having all of these moments. You're not going to have a strong and very, very put together family if you don't see each other all the time. You can have like a

a strong family, but I think the, just the presence is so important. And then, especially as you're having kids, um, that's also something to consider is like, how do you want your kids to, to grow up? Right. Like, do you want them to have that, that extra support as well? I want to go back to something you said earlier, which was your parents' example of love. Can you paint that out? Like what, what was your parents' example of love growing up? Cause you said it was, it was very strong. They loved each other very well.

I, so as I've always seen them, you know, being there for each other, mostly. I, like, as we grew up, I've seen them, you know, I've never seen them like arguing a lot with each other. Like they were very respectful with their tone, how they spoke to each other. I think that is something also that I picked up along the way. Every couple like has their own fights, but we like, for me and my sibling, we've never like seen them going like,

all out on each other like hey you did this you did that whenever like either of my parent is unwell uh like the other parent has always like taken care or you know being like really really really supportive there has been a couple of operations that have also happened with

my mom and my dad was super supportive. Like he did not fall weak for the family at all. Like he was right there. And that is something that actually also helped us as siblings. Like, oh, like that, when we, when we look at him, he was like strong. Also when my dad was going through like a bad phase in his health, my mom was there. She was like, oh, nothing's going to happen to him. Like she was super, super, super positive.

about the whole thing and I think her positivity positivity was something that you know brought my dad out of the whole thing so yeah like I've always seen them you know being there for each other like no matter what there has been like times when my dad had to like go abroad for like work and things like that but he would always come back to like his family like he's like no I want I

I'm not one who can, you know, stay out here and like just be there without my wife and my kids. So I'm coming back home. So, yeah. And the best part is whenever my dad used to go to work and my mom never had to like make evening snacks. Like she had to cook dinner and other wifey duties.

But like my dad would always bring snacks. Like, so we had like our evening snack time. All like the junk things that kids could possibly eat. And yeah, that was just like our...

family time. Like nobody had to talk about work. Nobody had to like discuss what happened at school. Like that was just quiet family time. Like all the conversations can happen post dinner. So yeah. I love that. And I love that there's a space for that of your dad and he, you know, would go abroad and then he'd be like, you know, I'm coming home to my family. Did you see the opportunity

of that growing up as well, where like there were examples of parents that would either go abroad and then stay there for a long time? Or like, did you see the opposite of the example that your parents set? Not so much in my family, but when we were in Dubai, like when we were in school, I had a couple of friends whose, you know, dad used to like work somewhere in Canada or like at the US and they were like back home over here. Obviously, I think like they missed their family

their dads, like I never like got into a deep conversation with them about it, but I'm sure like whenever my dad wasn't around, like I used to definitely miss him and I used to blackmail him on the phone calls. So yeah, I'm sure they would have like missed. It's important, I think, for children to have both like the feminine energy in the house as well as like a masculine energy to balance things out. That's, I think that's definitely important.

Can you speak a little bit to that? Like, what does that mean to you? And how did you see that well balanced in your home? And then also, like, what did you learn from that? Like, what did you learn from seeing that? Yeah, I think the most important thing I learned is that both of them need to be present. Because, you know, if one of the parent is usually absent, there are like certain traits, I feel that kind of tend to go missing.

Like I would, yeah, I think like I would learn like the loving and the soft side from my mom. Like if I had to like tell her secret or if I had to like, you know, if I may stop somewhere, like I would run to her. I was like, hey, listen, this happened. I don't want you to tell dad, but I still want help in this aspect of the problem. So she would be like the more understanding person, like, okay, like I think this is

what we need to do. You need to calm down. You know, that softness is something that I got from her. But if I wanted somebody beaten up, I would go to my dad. Like, hey, listen up. This is what happened. You can tell mom if you wanna.

But can we deal with this first and then tell mom, like, what we did? Or, like, so my dad was more of the yes person. I think dads usually are more of the yes person. Oh, yeah.

So if I wanted something and I knew my mom was going to say no, I would like go to him. Since I'm like the first born in the family, I'm more like the black male. I was like, I need this, like do something. So he would like go and try to like convince mom. Eventually my mom figured out what was happening. But yeah, like I feel like I, and sometimes when, you know, I needed something,

like somebody to fall back on no matter what like I needed a stronger energy when I felt like

When I felt like, you know, I need dad for this, like no matter what, like not that my mom wasn't there like 100%, but I needed like, you know, a stronger backbone. Like I needed somebody not to cry at the problem. I needed somebody to just be there like, and, you know, give like a stare at the problem, then I would definitely go to my dad for that, like, no matter what.

I love that. Did you do you see this masculine and feminine dynamic also in your relationship? And how would you say like, your husband's kind of like the masculine energy brings out more of your feminine? Yeah, I think one thing that I learned like along the whole 10 ish 11 ish years that we've together is,

The moment like I am, you know, trying to go crazy or I'm panicking over something or I'm like overthinking something. I have somebody at the back who's like balancing the whole thing out. And I'm one person who really struggles to say no. Or if I have to like stand up for something that I feel like I don't know what to say. Like either I just go like all out. I'm like, hey, listen up, this and this and this. And sometimes.

Sometimes it can come off as like rude or maybe that's how they label it. I'm not sure. But then their diplomatic system of it all is his responsibility now. Like when I want to say something and I need it to be said like, you know, hey, this is not...

really gonna work out I go to him I ask him like hey can you frame this for me politely diplomatically that is so funny yeah and sometimes when I feel like I don't have the energy to stand up for this like I am I know that I'm gonna fall weak here I'm just gonna take him along with

me like, hey, you need to say no. And you need to say no now to this thing. So I definitely see that balancing aspect over here as well. And I think over the years, we both have like tried to learn that this is where I lack. And this is where he lacks. And this is where we both have to like, walk together and balance the whole thing out. So yeah.

I want to come back to your relationship here in a second. But I did want to ask you really quickly, do you have a hard time ever balancing the feminine while you're working so hard? So like, you know, work is naturally just like a very, you put in a lot of energy, you're working really hard. It's kind of like more masculine-ish. But do you have trouble balancing that ever? I used to in one of my previous jobs, because I think that was...

because how the environment was. But in my current role, I think I get so much support from whoever I'm working at, be it a male or a female. And wherever I'm working at the moment, I've never felt that. Like I've never felt like, oh, I have to like, you know, go out there and be like strong and fight. I always had like super supportive managers right from the start. Like I have had three changes of managers in my career, but they were all really supportive and

And whenever I used to go to them with a problem, I've always got that support. So I never had to like be like, I want to beat up this guy. But I've definitely faced that in one of my previous roles where I really, really, really had to like, you know, be super strong and, you know,

stand up really harshly for myself so I have been facing that before yeah and and like would you say that you've always had like a good relationship with work I know that sometimes something that that people struggle with is just balancing their relationship with work and life and it sounds like you've had a pretty good understanding that you know work is not your life right where do you think that came from and and why why do you think that's that's your outlook

So I definitely did not have that outlook at the start and I have struggled a lot balancing that but I think for

Everyone, I shouldn't say only for women, I think for everyone, regardless of their gender, it's super important to pick the right environment where you're going to work. Talk to people before joining a company, read reviews about it. I picked this thing up from one of my leaders. His name is John Lieberman. He was the one who actually put that into me and saying, hey, listen up, this is just

part or a small part of your life. This is not your whole life. And there are a lot of lessons that I learned from him. And there are a lot of new lessons that I'm learning from my current manager, or I have learned from my previous managers at demand base. But yeah, there has been like, things that I've learned from certain managers where I previously worked as to what not to do as well. So I have definitely struggled earlier in my career to like draw that boundary draw that line. And I

I think it was more of a recovery from all of that. Like once I joined this organization and I felt really supported all throughout over here, like regardless of who my manager was.

So would you say that the thing that helped you most is the change in company, change in company culture? What else would you recommend to somebody that's having a hard time with something like this for balancing more of their life or not seeing their work as life? One of the things that Jill Rowley said a while ago was build a life, not just a career. And like, that's, that is such a core message that I think I want to reiterate to myself. Yeah. I think, um,

Definitely see the culture before joining any place. And what really helped me was I started talking to people and I kind of figured out like, okay, this is a good place to work. This is not a good place to work. I checked out reviews and I was super skeptical initially.

initially about joining them on base. But once I was in it, it was I was there. And that was totally a fault of my own because initially I was in an oil and gas industry. And I wanted to continue in that industry as well. You know, I was the person who became my manager at that point of time, Harshal. He was the one who actually convinced me and I'm so glad that he did. Because my life has actually really changed after that. And I have

I've really learned a lot of things like as I grew in the career and as I like develop my skills that it's equally important to develop your hard skills. It's equally important to develop your soft skills as it is to develop your hard skills.

So it's not like you should only focus on like the technical aspect of your role, but you should also focus on things like communication or how you put like a point across to like a coworker or if you need help, like how to ask it or if you're not comfortable with something, how to address that. So I think a lot of those things I learned here. Yeah, I love that so much. And what would you say are some of the things that you wish that you knew earlier getting into your career?

How to say no. I think that is the most important thing. Like, I wish I knew to stand up better for myself, like, you know, a more firmer way because I felt like I used to say yes to everything. And then when people were like rude to me, I used to just be like, hey, like it wasn't very polite when I went back. But that is something that completely changed once I joined Demandbase. So I felt like had I said no in person,

At the start, it would have been like better for me. But again, like there are certain aspects of the role that I feel like you need to start to understand, which is something that I wish I had like when I joined earlier. And also we hear like at Demandbase, we have this mentorship thing that goes on like coaching and mentorship. As long as like, you know, people are enrolling for those kinds of things, I think that they will eventually start learning how to deal with like whatever

or weaknesses that they have. I love that. And I love your emphasis whenever you said understand the role. That's definitely something that I've experienced as well, where it's like you come into a company or you come into a role and like you understand it or maybe you understand what you're supposed to be doing kind of. But like the more that you can get the what I call macro micro, it's like the macro picture, like how does this fit into the business? How does this make

complete sense. And then the micro is like, okay, now let me take this down to the day-to-day. How does this make sense? And the more that you can understand both pictures, the more that you can understand the role in this like whole perspective. And then whenever you go into the nitty gritty, like the fine tune details, and then the more that you can question between the two. So like, let's say that something's really popular right now. Let's say like

There's a strategy that's really popular right now. If you understand the whole, it's a lot easier not to just jump on these trends. So I definitely love that as a core to just succeeding in any career. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

So I wanted to ask, so Demandbase is a software company, right? What is your pitch? I would love to hear it. How would you explain it? Oh, I would just say that if you're looking for like a unicorn advertising solution or a sales solution, or if you're like just struggling to find leads, the link's in the demo and I promise you, you won't regret it.

That's funny. I love that. How many people are in your team right now? So we are three. Fingers crossed. Three in a team means that you are doing a lot. Yeah. But I think...

I think it doesn't ever feel like we're doing a lot. Okay. It's like, so whenever I go to my manager and I tell him like, hey, so-and-so, so-and-so is the thing, I always get asked like really nice questions. Like, are you comfortable with this? Like, is this a lot for you? And when I communicated like what aspect of the team that I would like to do, like I was actually very happy that, you know, I got what I wanted to do. So it's like the work really doesn't seem like

Like, of course, I have days where I'm like, oh, my God, these like my calendar is filled or I have to like do this. It's not like I would never have like a stressful day at work just because I'm doing what I love. But I have those days less.

It's like, I know that this is what is there. This is what I have to do. And at the beginning of the year, we've like planned out everything. Okay, this is what we need to do in like the first quarter. This is what we need to do in the second. We have these daily and weekly updates that we also give. So it's like really calming. It's like, I don't know like what to do next. What, what to...

I'm not clueless on what to do next. And if I need support and I go up to like the, even the extended team, I'm like, Hey, I need help here. I think you would be the right person to help me. I always get help. Like I don't have to like go struggling to find help or like guidance. So those days are less like, I don't feel like, Oh my God, what's

What's happening? That's really nice. Did you think whenever you began that you were going to do this, that this was going to be your career? No, no. I never wanted to get into this aspect of like the B2B SaaS, but I'm really, really, really glad that I did. Yeah, I just wanted to be like this.

cool social girl like I was I was really young but like as I developed and as I learned more skills and I got like freedom to explore you know okay like you should try this and try this and try this and see what you like I think that's what worked the best for me so

Initially, I had my hands in like everything and people usually don't like that. They're like, oh my God, like there's so much on my plate. But I think that is something that I also used to enjoy that as well before it all streamlined. But I think that was something that really helped me understand what I like and what I want to do like as a person in this team.

No, and I think that's a good emphasis as well. So understand the role and then in the beginning, have your hands in everything because you don't actually know what you like, what you don't like. You don't know what you're suited for exactly. You know what you learned in school. You know what you thought you were going to like. But like the more that you can expand your perspectives and think, okay, what else could I possibly like in this industry, in this role, in this domain? Because the goal is to like figure out what lights you up because that's obviously what you're going to do the

best possible thing that you're going to spend more time on it. You're going to learn more of it. What would you say right now lights you up in your work and then also outside of your work? I think the support that I get like from the team, from the manager, I think that is something that I was not having prior to joining Demandbase.

So I think that is something that is always, always, always going to be pleasant. And that is something that is definitely going to light me up. The other thing professionally, I would say, is I don't have to, you know,

Like I'm more, I feel like I'm more confident as a person now. Like I don't have to go and ask somebody to like, hey, can you like speak for me? You know, I don't have to do that like anymore. I feel like I can do that for myself. And we get like a lot of opportunities to develop both hard skills and soft skills. And that is something that not every role will give you. I think that is something that's,

Personally, what lights me up is if my husband's out of the home sometimes for his cricket match and something and I'm bored at home, like, what do I do? And I've already finished watching all my series and then when he comes, I know, like, oh, this is my

plan to annoy him. So that definitely lights me up. The other thing is my sister, she still stays in Dubai. So every time I get to see her or whenever she comes down, and then we can get together and annoy other people that also definitely lights me up.

That's so funny. One last point on just the work environment because I think there's one aspect of this that is where you're at right now and there's one aspect of this that is where you would like to be. And I think your constant emphasis on support and the culture that Demandbase has created for you and the way that you get to try out a lot of things and also do soft skills and hard skills and learn in all these different ways, I think that's a really important note just to highlight and remind people

for myself, for yourself, for anybody listening, just that when and if you ever get into leadership, like the culture that you create is incredibly important. It is the difference between whether somebody speaks super highly of your company, whether they want to stay, whether they're going to give you a lot and put their effort and energy behind your company or not. And just the fact that you keep on saying that I think is really important. And I don't want to just like

whiz past it a little bit. Like, I don't want to overlook it just because

I think it's necessary and critical for people who might be in leadership to recognize that the culture that you create is one of the most important things because you can't do anything alone. Business is not done alone. Yeah, yeah. No, I've worked with leaders and close friends of mine have also worked with leaders who had no clue. They wouldn't do any research before developing a product and then we were forced to market it. So I think...

It's very, very important that, you know, you do make like a safe space for the people that work for you. And the other thing I feel like leadership comes from the top. Like if 100% up at the top, it is going to somewhere trickle into the whole organization. So I think I've been very lucky in that aspect, at least over here at Demandbase, like

I've never felt like I don't trust this leader or I've never felt like this leader is not going to think good for like me or the organization or like my team. I've never faced that luckily. No, that's interesting. And I also think another thing to remember there is what you were talking about, the difference between leadership. Somebody was talking to me a little while ago and they were talking about their job as a manager, right? And

And I was like, it's interesting because the word manage has an entirely different connotation than the word lead. And whenever you say like I manage versus I lead, like you're divorcing an aspect of the relationship that is by example, right? Like managing is kind of you overseeing, you having your hands in things, you telling people what to do. Whereas leadership is you charting the path, you setting the pace, you like –

showing and leading by example and being the example. And I think that's really important as well. Like whenever it comes to any position where you are in charge of something or you have responsibility, I think seeing yourself as a leader and not a manager is really important because you need people's buy-in. And the only way that you're going to get people's buy-in is if you earn it. Yep. Yep. That's true. 100%. That's true.

I want to kind of switch gears a little bit and go to your husband and you. Can you tell me your story? How did y'all meet? So we met back in Dubai when I was studying my bachelor's. And so my university was almost, I think, 30 kilometers far from where I used to reside. And I was just a very lazy kid that time. And I didn't want to wake up early for the bus, although I did for one year, like

I'm going to give myself credit for that. But yeah, eventually it started to be like a, like a great struggle because it was like waking up at six, like the bus leaves at 6am. So it would be like waking up at four, 4.30. It was really crazy and I did not want to do it. And I had a friend who,

was in his class and she was like, Oh, Hey, like I reside here. Where do you reside? And she happened to like reside pretty close by. And I questioned her like, Hey, how do you come? And that's when she said, like, she comes with this guy as her. And I was like, you know, would he mind having another customer? And like, that's how we connected. She gave me his number. Yeah. And I used to start waking up a little later.

And, yeah, and that's how, like, you know, we became friends. And then we became lovers. And now we're husband and wife. So, yeah. Yeah, that's how I met him. Oh, my goodness. That's crazy. Yeah. So, okay. So you became friends first. And then how did you know that you liked him? Like, how did you know that there was something different here? And then you've been together for 10, 11 years-ish now. Yeah.

How has it evolved? How has your relationship with him evolved since? I think first we were just like kids. Like I don't, I did not even think it was going to last this long because like from what I saw from my friends and it was college. So like, like I don't know if this is going to really work out. Plus my parents always had at the back of their mind that they want to move back to India. So I was like, I'm not up for like a long distance and things like that. And yeah,

I was like all ready to like call it off. Although like since he was my first, I was like super upset about the whole thing. And he just said like, why don't we give it a try? Like, why don't we see? Like, why are you so closed about it? And I was like, okay. And I was pretty convinced that this is not gonna work out.

But two years long distance worked out. Like we, we met in between for sure. Cause, but it was like two years. Otherwise now that I'm like all married and settled, I don't even know where those two years went by. Like it was, uh, of course, like we used to fight more, uh,

in the long distance because we never used to meet that often. The time zones were a little bit tricky. There were parents that we had to hide the relationship from. No. Yeah. It was tricky, but I think

I think like eventually we kind of got like the hang of how we wanted to work. And then I never thought of giving up. I was like, nope, this is what I want for the rest of my life. And I still think he feels the same. So yeah, and then we got married.

So that conviction, the yes, I want this for the rest of my life. Like, when did that come? How did that come? Is it because like, y'all just get along so well? Is it just because he is your person and like your life is so much better with him? Like, how would you explain that?

I don't think there was like a particular moment where I felt like, oh, he's the one. I think it was just the small things that, you know, I was lacking and he was like, you know, having those things and the problems that we faced and he never wanted to give up on them. I felt like those in those moments, I started like,

realizing that he's the one like it wasn't just like at some fancy dinner like oh I think he's the one like it wasn't ever like that for me I think it was all the small things that were happening behind like the chaos and the support that we were giving to each other or rather that I received when I was at my low I think it was in those smaller moments that I started

And realizing that, nope, I don't want to give up on this one. And this is the one I want to spend the rest of my life with. How do you keep loving him even when it's hard? Like there are moments, obviously, whenever it's harder to love somebody. So how do you keep on doing that? Because I think it's those small things that end up adding up over time and then hurting a relationship.

I think for both parties, whoever they may be, it's important that you forgive for sure and move past it. Like I've seen a lot of couples that they say they forgive, but then they keep bringing up the same things in like fights or in disagreements.

So I think it's important to move like past it. And if you're not past like a mistake that this person did communicate. And if you feel like this is, this isn't something like, if it's something really drastic that's happened and you feel like you can't forgive, it's always, I wouldn't say easier, but it's always better to end the relationship versus like dragging it and, you know, stretching it because the end is eventually going to come if you're not going to be able to like move on. And I think,

For whoever it may be, like if we speak to somebody who's married for like 50 years or more, they would have forgiven so many mistakes that their spouse or their partner or whoever it is that they've done. So I think that's important. And, you know, sometimes and this is also something that I learned after my marriage. Sometimes I think it's easier to forget the good things that the person's done.

And the times when the person was there for you and the times when the person supported you and did the things that you were too weak to do. So it's equally important that in those moments and in those days that you do not forget the good things that the person's done. Like, of course, if the person's made like a really drastic mistake and things like that and the situation's

completely different, then that changes the whole dynamic of the relationship, then I can understand that at those times, you have to let go of the good stuff as well. But if it's just like small mistakes that happen, because we're human, yeah, in those moments, don't forget that

there were like good times and good things that were also done. And I think for every like couple partner have like weekly check-ins or like bi-weekly check-ins with them. Cause sometimes we get so busy, you know, with work or with like, you know, maybe like the kids in the future and a lot of things that accidentally we tend to take, start taking the other person for granted. And that, that happens with everyone, everyone. So try to have like check-ins, like,

where the person is at how they have felt through the week or to the past two weeks and if there's a in case any problem comes up like it's resolved then versus like it's being stretched and one fine day in a fight or in the frustration it all comes out and you're clueless like where did that come from so yeah i have have check-ins so one thing that i've found at least in myself is like

And I don't know if this is an as a woman thing. I don't know if this is just an as a me thing. But sometimes I have emotions that like, like, my boyfriend will make me feel a certain way. And I'm like, okay, I know that he's incredible. And I know that he doesn't make me feel this way a ton. But like right now, I just I just feel a certain way. How do you make sure that the way that you feel doesn't influence the way that you treat them the way that you love them the way that you think about them over time and are grateful for them over time?

Yeah, I think I've faced those as well. Like sometimes in a moment, I'm like, what? But I think if you're in front of people and that happens, always discuss it in private. Like you don't want to, you know, make a scene. But if you're already like, like if it's just the two of you, then it's always better to take a pause because like you don't want to

go blasting at him and just like communicate like, hey, you know what, this sentence or this action of yours isn't something that I appreciated at the moment. Like, could you explain it? Or could you like tell me where that came from? Because I did not like it at that moment. And you would be surprised to know that he actually is just being a man sometimes. It's like, I did not even think that it was gonna hurt you. Like, it was just not at the top of my head. Or like,

Yeah, it's just sometimes how I'm going to blame the gender on this, but it's just sometimes how they are. But always, always, always communicate and keep your point across like in a really nice manner. So you will come to know that he was just like being silly or hurting you was the last thing on his mind at that point of time. Or sometimes he it was maybe something that you did that irritated him and he didn't speak up. So this is how he like showed it. It's probably one of those three.

That makes sense. Yeah. And I love that emphasis as well. Because something that I've noticed, at least in some of the best couples, is that like they never fail to appreciate the other person and they never lose that. It's like just a constant understanding that like, I'm so grateful for you. And always,

Also, back to your conversation and our conversation about family members, they also seem to keep in mind this, just like the heart of the other person. You didn't mean to do that. You might have done something. You might have made me upset, but you didn't mean to, and I'm going to believe that. Then I think more than believing it, what you just said, where it

Ask them, like just straight up ask, like, what did you mean when you said this? What did you mean when you did this? Because here's what I'm thinking. And I'm pretty sure that's not correct. Yeah. Yeah. Believe me, like 90% of the times that the things that these guys do, we just overthink it.

So how do you, how do you make yourself not overthink it? Or like, do you just, do you just communicate better? Or, I mean, like, right, whenever you get married, it's the goal and the hope is forever. So that's like, that's 50, 60, whatever, hopefully plus years of just like constant managing your communication, managing your relationship, making sure that you are, you

keeping this person like, and their image very high in your mind. Um, but that's hard. That's very, very hard. Like something that is also very common is like over time, whenever somebody is in a relationship and also in a marriage, like losing respect for somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think before marrying somebody, what every girl or guy for that matter, but I'm just going to speak for us for now. Um,

is to have the difficult conversations. What is it going to look like financially? Whose money is whose money? Is it the house's money? Is his money all my money? Is my money his money? So have those difficult conversations regarding like kids, regarding both the families or like certain every family has some difficult people. So and you can't always avoid them at like functions and things like that.

So how are we going to deal with them from, from both the families for sure. Or like, you know, I wouldn't say create hypothetical situations, but there are like certain situations where you feel like, you know, that there's a high chance of a situation like that happening in the near future or the late future. So discuss those situations as well. And I would say like always, always, always see, I wouldn't say like the ex,

extended family, but at least like a little bit of close family before getting married into getting married to the person or getting married into that family, like have chats with them as well. Like do talk to your potential future mother-in-law of what like things you might like, might not like understand where she's coming from as well. Cause both of us will have like a different temperament, a different nature. Uh, but also, uh,

Know that she also loves her son and you also love her son. Like that is the common thing. So have those difficult conversations with like people who, you know, you're going to interact with on a regular basis, um,

And then get married. Like, don't just be like, oh, I love this person. I've been with this person for X number of years. And then you're married. And then it's like a shock for you. Because I think what for me, like I dated almost eight to nine years before getting married. So everything was clear for me. But, you know, for certain reasons.

It's happened that it's all good and lovey-dovey when you're married. But once you're married, it's a different picture. And I wouldn't say that love goes out of the window, but it takes a backseat. And then you have to

you know face life together and face the difficulties together and face like the in-laws and like the hard uh relatives and everything together yeah so please please please keep your eyes your years and everything open before you do get married after marriage i think the biggest biggest biggest friend of yours is communication like if you're gonna be like

ignoring things every day, like, oh, I'm not going to discuss this with him. Like, it's okay. It was just like a one-time thing. You don't know how that one-time thing is going to build up in your head. Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. So if you feel like this doesn't really need my attention and you're confident that this isn't going to bother you and you let certain things like just slide, that's fine. But if you know that

I'm going to let this slide now, but two days from now, I'm going to, I'm potentially going to taunt him about it. Then it's better that you discuss it now. You get it addressed now. You understand where he was coming from or whether he was just, you know, being silly or he was just trying to like cheer you up in a way that you felt like, what is he doing? So, yeah. Yeah.

Please, please, please do discuss it right there. And then if you know that this isn't something that you're going to let go and you're going to bring it up again. So, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's also something about like just knowing yourself, like, okay, what are, what are your patterns? What, what is something that is true about you? Like, I think it's, it's really, really important that by the time that you are, you know, really, really frustrated, that's not the first time he's heard about this.

Right. Because if it is, and then that's, that's obviously you're not giving him the space to change. Like change takes time. And if you're really frustrated about something, then you need to be able to give him that space to change. But I definitely think it depends on who you are. Like I would say for me, and I would, I'd be curious to hear about you, but for me, it's kind of like something happens and,

I take it in because I'm trying to understand it and I'm trying to be able to tell him like, okay, these are the words that are associated with this feeling that I've felt. I will give it a little bit if it doesn't go away. And if I finally have the words that I'll just like say it, but in a very, very calm way, because now it's like, okay, now we're past this like moment and I can just explain this to you. And I think that's been helpful for the most part, but that's usually how I am. How are you? What are you like? So that is how I try to be most of the times.

And that is something that I had to like work on, like, especially after getting married. But eventually, like at the start, I would just be like, I don't know what's happening. Like I would get really overworked or like overthink or make the situation a little bigger than what it really was. And then eventually I was like, okay, you know what? This is all, half of the things are sometimes just in your head. Like it's not even, that's not even the reality of what it is. And I know that it's,

it's a little easier for us to get really panicky and overthink like that. But I think, as you mentioned, the space, I've got that space for him to change that aspect of mine. And I think I'm doing a relatively good job. Now I wouldn't just go up and be like, I don't know what's happening. I don't know what to feel about this. Or like, oh my God. I would just take some time. I would be like, okay.

we don't need to talk about this right now. I'm going to take like a 15, 20 minute. I'm going to just like, you know, sometimes I just play like a quick game on my phone or something just so that it's not like all in my head. And then I go and communicate. It's like, Hey, listen, like this is what something has happened. This is what I'm feeling. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but

But this is this is where I'm coming from. What do you think? Like even even this question has really helped me like improve, you know, the whole scenario, the relationship and everything. Like, what do you think? So I'm crystal clear as to where he's coming from or like for whoever. Like I even ask that to my parents sometimes, like, you know, when I'm like, this is what I felt about this whole thing.

what is where are you coming from like what do you think so I know that I'm not assuming anything because it's like when a situation happens it's so easy for us to assume like oh I'm sure like this is what's going to happen next or that is what this person meant like I'm so sure but but maybe that's not the case

Yeah, exactly. No, I mean, it's really funny. Like, this is something that I would love to hear your take on as well. But what if your spouse isn't like that? Like, there are some guys that like, they just don't like hearing it. Like, if you can't explain it, they don't want to meet you in the whole, here's what I'm feeling. And I don't actually know what this means. But this is what I'm feeling. Like, they don't want to meet their person in that. So like, how would you recommend somebody deals with that? Because that's really hard.

If your partner is open to like a couples therapy or like, you know, any other form of communication, I would suggest please go, please do that and help yourselves, help the relationship. But there are certain cases where there's unfortunately nothing that can be done. Like if they're not afraid to lose you, you're just not the one for them. That's really tough. Yeah. No, it's interesting. I mean, like,

It is such a gift and a blessing. And you have to remind yourself all the good things. It's very similar. Some people I've heard, they write out all the things that they've ever done that's incredible in their work environment because sometimes it's good to have that reminder. And then on the other side, sometimes it's incredible to do the opposite where it's like you write what is just incredible about your spouse, your boyfriend, whoever it is, so that you remember. And so that in those moments where you're questioning it, you're not confident in it, very similar to your work,

because that always happens like you can turn back to just be like okay like remind myself this is who this person is this is what I love so much about them this is how they're so good to me because I think sometimes there's like the tendency to to paint the grasses greener right like the grass is green on the other side in your work in a different role in a different state or wherever and then with a different guy whatever it is so yeah I love that yeah yeah that's true

Okay. I'm going to hit you with one final rapid fire question just to end this all out. What is your best advice for a young woman? Like either something that you would tell a young cousin, a young daughter, something like that. And then secondarily, what is the best advice you've ever been given?

the first thing is don't be afraid to like experiment experiment whatever you want to do with your life uh and don't be afraid to like stand up for yourself because there was a time when i was afraid to stand up for myself and i would not want that for like anybody so

go out there and experiment. The other thing I would like to tell them, and this is an advice that I had got as well, is ask questions, like ask as many questions as you can and get a clear picture of what the situation is, be it professionally or personally, like don't live in assumptions.

don't keep things all in your head because what you how you see it is not how the world would see it is not how somebody sitting right next to you would see it so yeah ask don't be afraid to like ask questions and yeah just

I think be yourself. Don't change unless it's for the better. But otherwise, if you feel like this isn't an aspect of my personality that I want to change, like it's personal to me, I like it. And it's not harming you or the world around you. Then just be who you are. I love that. Well, that kicks everything off. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, everybody. Babies. You found this episode enriching. If you would like

I'm looking forward to our next episode. Cheers. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that.