#52 - Peace and Ambition: The Delicate Balance of a Driven Woman with Akshaya Ravi
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Welcome to the In Bloom podcast where we're exploring what it means to design a life you are so fulfilled and proud of. I'm Ella, your host, and I've been thinking a lot about how there's this struggle, especially in society, and I mean, I even struggle with it, to...

balance success and peace, right? So like there's this constant tension between masculine energy, which is the ambition, the hustle, the push to achieve, and the feminine energy, the slowness, the presence, the appreciation of what already is. Today, I'm speaking with Akshaya Ravi, who embodies this balance beautifully. Today, I'm speaking with Akshaya Ravi, who embodies this balance beautifully.

today we speak about her journey what fascinates me about akshaya's story is how she has learned to honor both of those energies the fierce ambition that was instilled in her by her mother and her more recent practice of

slowing down. She starts each morning with tea on her balcony. She appreciates every moment. She shares a bit about how she navigated burnout through embracing more of her feminine energy. Today, she talks a little bit about how she's creating a life that honors both achievement and peace. So whether you're feeling overwhelmed by constant hustle or wondering how to maintain your drive while also finding this balance,

Akshaya's wisdom offers a really refreshing perspective on integrating both of these masculine and feminine journeys into your success. Let's get into the episode. You are excellent. You become unforgettable. Welcome to Houdini. I am your host, Nisal Enchman, and this is a First Humanity Podcast.

Akshaya, what was your childhood like? So I'm so fascinated by women who have just like mothers that kind of show them an example of what it is that they want to become. Just because I think that doesn't always happen. Like I think it's very much more likely that you have a mom that had characteristics that you wanted to continue on and you wanted to emulate. But like, yeah, you speak so highly of your mom. What did you learn from her growing up? The work ethic.

It's the main thing. She always says like, you know, no matter what, you know, the work should be like perfect. If someone has touched you with something, you know, you need to keep the promise, uh,

that you gave them. And also it's important to empathize with people. Everyone is going through something, you need to be really kind to everyone and to stop, pause for a bit and understand what people are going through before actually putting a blame or trying to get angry. And also giving back to the society in some form.

Whether it be a donation or like teaching someone something or those are some things that she keeps saying to me. And the work, you know, how focused she is whenever she goes into the office, she's like 200% focused. And I always admire that the kind of focus that she has, it's something that everyone would need to have. You know, that's something that helps her achieve what she wants to do.

So those are the things that I learned growing up watching my mom. What kind of a mom was she?

She is very soft, kind, but yet fierce. She is very strict, very strict and you know, she has, she always goes by her principles. You know, hey, you want to be this kind of woman. This is a standard that we hold in our family. So you need to be this kind of women. So it's a choice that you make every day. You know, it's not something, you know, that you are born with. You have to make a choice because as a woman, we are judged harder than everyone else.

So any small mistakes or just a lapse in your judgment could cost you your entire thing that you already work for.

So she keeps saying that. So she's very strict. But I think it really helped me, you know, to have this kind of work ethic and to get to where I am. That's so interesting that she would say, like, this is our standard. These are the kind of women that we are. If you were to explain that, like, let's say to a good friend of yours, what kind of woman does she tell you to be? She says that you have to be kind, yet fierce. And you should never compromise things that you say.

want to achieve for anyone. Family is important. You need to understand and make the sacrifices accordingly. Sometimes family would need more time and sometimes career would need more time. You should be able to adjust the priorities and make time for both without compromising and making intelligent and smart decisions. You shouldn't be taking stupid decision and waste your time.

dwelling on it or the consequences make smart decision so that you make make mistakes but make lesser mistakes by making smart decisions so those are the things that she keeps saying and also like the way you dress how you present yourself really really matters because no matter what we say to ourselves and to the world how people perceive us is really really important

And it's also because we are women and we need to do it even more better than men. So that's something that she kept saying because we grew up in an orthodox environment. So how you dress and how you carry yourself, you know, it became important for us. So if you dress some way and even if you are really successful, that entire thing would be disregarded, you know, just because you dress some way.

So you need to be really careful with how you present yourself and how you speak, you know, think before you speak. So all these things, you know, she keeps saying to me. That's so important and valuable, especially in today's culture. There's like this pushback against any of that, right? Any of the, hey, how you dress matters. Hey, how you speak matters. How you present yourself matters. What would you say to somebody who's like, well, you know, like,

why does that matter? You know, like, why should it matter? Like, can't I just be myself? Yeah. How would you, how would you explain that to especially the culture today where like everybody has this idea that it'd be nicer if we could just be ourselves, but sometimes it is worth participating.

putting in a little bit of extra time to look nice or like putting in a little bit of extra time to do your makeup or like whatever it is, maybe like going to work out, whatever it is that like that contributes to that. How would you explain that to somebody, especially because like most people see that as a traditional idea, but I'm of the belief that there's value in some traditional ideas. There's value in looking nice, right? Or like caring. I think for me, at least it goes back to care.

But I'm really intrigued to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, that's actually a very deep question. I used to ask the same question to myself, to my mom as well. Why do I have to dress this way? Can I wear shorts? I really love shorts. I do want to wear them. Why is it important what I wear? What I can do is something should be more important, right?

you know, than what I'm wearing. And I kept fighting that thought with my mom and the society. But over the time, I realized that no matter what you do, how you present yourself is actually, you know, going to affect what you are presenting.

You know, if I'm saying something that's very powerful, but you are not dressed in a well-mannered way, people wouldn't take you seriously. And so those are some things I keep saying to myself, hey, yeah, I know I want to be myself. And I also want to get across the message in a very good way. So this is a choice that I have to make. This is a trade-off that I have to make. I can wear shorts anywhere. It's like beaches, vacations. I don't want to wear shorts in an important business meeting.

business meeting demands professional attire and I need to wear them I can't fight that thought because like people wouldn't take you seriously then people would take that you are not you know taking this meeting seriously and you are not you are not a person who

with good knowledge. So those are some kind of perception that people would have. So when, if you ask a younger Akshaya, she would say like, hey, yeah, do you, like wear whatever you want, you know, you don't have to like go by the society rules, you know, wear anything. But growing up, actually understanding some societal situations require some kind of behavior, like business meetings, traditional occasions, and like,

catching up with friends. So those are different, different occasions and you need to like dress up accordingly. It's like kind of these society rules is something that is good to go by because it creates a uniform mindset. You know, you don't, if everyone is wearing anything that they want in a professional setting, you know, it would become chaotic and, you know, it would become very much distracting.

So that's why having a uniform professional attire in the work environment would not cause any distractions. So those are some things that I believe right now. So it's important to be yourself, but in the things that you do, in how you impact people, in the work that you do and how you speak to people. And that's where you can express yourself. And dress is also one of the way, but you have to align your dressing to the message that you are conveying.

I like that emphasis. So it's kind of like, what is your highest priority here, right? Like if your highest priority here is being comfortable, okay, wear shorts, you know, or like, okay, wear whatever you want and dress however you want and present yourself however you want. But if your highest priority in this moment is going to be winning a deal,

or like getting something across, then you have to ask yourself, what are all the ways that I can make that more likely that I will do that well and that I'll succeed in this? And I mean, yeah. One thing that stuck out to me is I used to ask like my mom, for example, can't I just wear jeans to church, right? Or like, can't I just, you know, wear something casual? But then at the same time, I would watch myself get all dressed up and pretty for like a dinner that didn't really even matter, but like a dinner with friends. And I'm like, okay, hold on a second.

Like if I can put so much importance into this dinner with friends that I spend an hour getting ready and whatever. And I'm the way that I value right. Church is being made apparent by how I'm dressing for it. I need to, I need to show that I value it differently because.

the way that you spend time doing things, the way that you present yourself, like it actually does really matter. Or like, for example, if somebody said, okay, we're going to invite you to meet, I don't know, the queen of England, whatever, you'd show up presentable. Most people would, right? So it's like, it's like, there are certain things that you just kind of understand, but then whenever you ask yourself a question and like you flip it and you're like, okay, well,

you know, I'd like to wear shorts to this business meeting, but if hypothetically this was the queen of England, like would I do that? No. Okay. So then I should treat these people so well, you know, so highly that like they feel like I respect them, like the queen of England, for example. Cause that's just, that's just good. People like being respected.

You summarized it pretty well actually. We can also look at it that this way if you want to be in a position where you can do anything you want but you need to go by the rules initially you know to be able to make to the reach the top and make the rules so you need to go by the rules reach the top and then rewrite the rules that you want right now just go by whatever that's created and

that's sadly the reality, but not all the rules. I'm saying like senseless rules that will control women and that controls men. Some rules that are pretty much respected by everyone across the world, like the professional attire, how you speak, how you carry yourself. That was something it's worth following, I feel. Yeah. Were you, so you mentioned that you liked shorts. Was that ever hard for you to figure out the way that you like to dress or like

figure out the way to best, you know, present yourself. Was that natural to you or is that something that you worked on? I really worked hard on it. I used to be so crappy at dressing up, you know. My mom kept saying that when I was doing my schooling, I get so obsessed with, oh my God, I look this way. I'm not attractive enough. And then she kept saying, you focus on what matters right now. These things will come to you as you gradually get older. You don't have to focus much.

But looking back, she was actually scared that I would become so obsessed with the beauty and would lose focus in the academics. So she kept saying that. Looking back, I felt like if I dressed up really good, I think that would have brought more opportunities for me in the schools as well. Because I literally put zero efforts on how I presented myself.

But now, you know, right now I am able to, you know, get invited to podcasts like yours. I get invitations to attend conferences to help founders. And I feel that most of these have come. One of the main reason is how you present yourself and how you behave with people. So that's something that's very important for me. And I worked really hard towards it. Yeah, it's interesting. I asked that question, especially because so I,

my, my background with a lot of the like, presentate presenting yourself and figuring out how you like to dress. Like my background is I grew up with three brothers. And nobody told me, you know, how to dress or like how to pick clothes for myself or like, I kind of just did what I wanted to. And I would wear things and most of the time they looked good. But like,

There was definitely a period where I was definitely more like a tomboy than I was like a, you know, like a girly girl. And like, I would always look at the girly girls and be like, hmm, like, I wish I could dress like that. Or like, I don't even know how to do my hair like that.

like that. I don't know how to do my makeup like that. That would be so cool if I did. And like, I also focused a lot on academics and like a lot on doing the things that I knew that I needed to do. But like you're saying, I think there's just kind of like,

uh, not there's, well, on the one side, there's like confidence that goes along with it. Right. But then on the other side, I think the way that you hold yourself and the way that you order your life, it impacts every other aspect of your life too. So like, as I've tried a lot harder to become more put together and like to, you know, figure out like, how should I dress? What are my colors? What are, what are the cuts for me? Um, and,

I've seen it impact the rest of my life. Like it's more orderly and I didn't expect that necessarily. But like, I guess it makes sense. Like I take care of other things better because I'm learning how to take care of myself better. Yeah, I think dressing up well also improves your confidence, self-esteem and a lot of other things actually. So I think that would help a lot when it comes to our work as well.

Yeah. So I want to dive a little bit deeper into this. So how did you grow up? So you have one sister, correct? Yeah. And then it's you, your mom. And then like, what was growing up like with your mom and your sister? My sister is just as strict as my mom. She used to teach me academics. She used to literally act like a mom to me.

to me. And my mom, she spent most of her time working and hustling for us to provide the life that we want. And my sister, she spent most of her time taking care of me and her academics. So that was fun for me because I always had the sister to confide in on anything that I needed. Hey, I have a doubt in this problem. Then she solves it for me. Like whatever the problem that I had, like I'd run to my sister.

And, you know, it was fun with her. And also like we used to get scared whenever we get marks and the report cards from our schools, you know, that we are really scared. What would our father and mother would say? Like, did we perform really well enough to satisfy them? Like we used to be really scared of that.

Most of our time we spent achieving and focusing more on the academics part, I would say. And then also spending time with each other, doing silly things. So that's entirely our childhood. We didn't have much fun.

like how others did. It's mostly hustling. That's what I remember at least. Why do you think? Was it like, was it just always understood inside of your family that you wanted to get to a certain place and like y'all would do what it took to get there? It's important for us because my mom reached a place where she is and because of that, we are able to afford the life that we want.

want and at some point in life you would might or might not face similar situations so you can't really depend on your partner to provide the life that you want so you should be able to you know afford the lifestyle that you need afford the lifestyle that you dream as well so for that to happen you need to work really hard you know there is no compromise and if you start early you have a like a super good advantage most of the people realize that they didn't

work hard enough during their childhood when they are 24, 25 and they end up thinking, hey, I should have done this like long back. Since we started working early on, so we have this first mover kind of advantage to get to where we are.

which most people in our environment, they get to it only when they are 32, 35. So that was something that was very important. My mom made sure that we both are independent by ourselves, also with our family as well. Why independent? So that you could create your own security? Yes, yes. The idea is you can't depend on anyone. So life is really uncertain. To be independent means you have your own freedom to do things that you want.

otherwise you will be forever your entire life you will be caged by other people's rules something like you should not go out after 6 pm you can't do this because you're a girl you can't do that because you're a girl so there are a lot of rules that came

To avoid those things, you need to become independent so that people will not be in a position to question what you are doing because they know that you are independent and you can do whatever you want. So that was very important for us, especially in an orthodox setting. What do you want? So like when you think about your life and like all the things that you could build toward and you mentioned hustling and getting a leg up in our career, like being young and putting so much into it.

What do you want? Like, what is the goal for you? My goal, I think, would have a peaceful, relaxed and to be in a loving family and with loving friends. That's the ultimate goal. I feel that for most of the people here, I used to think that money is something that that we all need. Money is the ultimate goal. Like when we are young and naive, like if we get the money, like we can live happily ever after.

But that wasn't the case. Even if you had the shitload of money, it wouldn't buy you happiness and it can't literally buy you happiness. I should be in a place where I don't have to think about what I have to do next. Oh my God, I need to go run tomorrow to go for a work. Otherwise, I won't be able to provide for my family to have that kind of financial stability so that I can relax, enjoy life in a very slow pace while surrounded by a good loving family.

and friends to hang out with. It's the kind of ideal setting that I would always want to be with. Yeah, I absolutely love that. Would you characterize your family growing up as peaceful or no? For some part, yeah. But most part, no. So I always try to have that peace, relax,

Right now, where I am today, I am able to do that because of the independence, because of the kind of money that I make. I am able to go for that peaceful and relaxed environment that I need. I am in a position where I can choose. But if I didn't work really hard, if I didn't hustle early enough, then I would probably be stuck in an environment where I am ruled by the societal pressure and where you don't have literally any option, but you feel suffocated everyday.

every day.

it's, it was something that's very important. And as well as I feel it, it was not peaceful. So I kept walking towards building a very peaceful life. Interesting question. But do you like the feeling that you get when, when you're working hard and hustling? So like some people that I've talked to, um, and sometimes for myself too, it's like you get used to working really hard and hustling and moving really quickly. So like, you know, you have moments of peace and then you look, look around and you're like, hold on a second. Like,

I want, in a way, the feeling of challenge and struggle, but like to push for something, to be ambitious. I love most part of it. Some days, you know, we really get to it, like the burnout and the kind of pressure will get to us. But most of the time, you know, work is something that gave me meaning in the initial days. So always it's close to my heart.

and when people think of Akshaya they think of work because I keep working all the time and so I feel like work I have never really seen that as a pressure even though I work at work in sales that's an irony so I really love working hard but some days I love to pause you know relax for a bit even like any hard-working people they would really need those days you know

to gather themselves and to keep pushing again, all over again the next day. You mentioned burnout. Have you experienced burnout before? Yeah, multiple times, I think. I have burnt out because of too much of family problems, career problems, and other problems in life. It got to me so much that I wasn't able to concentrate properly on my job. So I had to take a break and to gather myself and then to resume my work back. So

So those were the moments that actually truly taught me that why having a very stable, relaxed and peaceful life is very important. No matter how independent you are, how hard you work or how much money you make. Yeah. How did you get through them? Because I feel like there are a lot of people that are experiencing and or

It's like everybody jokes about burnout right before they experience it to the nth degree. Like they know they're creeping on burnout. They know that to the most, for the most part, they're like, they're feeling pretty stressed and tired. And then all of a sudden, like one day it all comes crashing down. It's like every single thing that you felt that was an indicator that was like, hey, slow down, stop.

you know, do something different, figure this out, address this problem. Like you don't listen to it because you're like, oh, it's okay. I'm just going to keep on pushing and pushing and pushing. And then all of a sudden it like, it all hits its climax. How would you recommend that people like get out of it or like figure out their way through burnout? I think the best way to do that is you might have ignored the things that you always wanted to do to me, to prioritize the work.

I think to me, I love hanging out with my friends, exploring new places and eating good food and watching good movies, playing funny little stupid games to remind our childhood. Those things really take our mind away from the work and helps us relax. And also the calming noises of the beach and the laughs that you have with your friends and the time that you spend with your family. Those things I really love.

doing when I had my burnout phase. I think that was that actually helped me through it. And I would recommend anyone doing things that actually makes you happy, which is cringy because everyone says it. You should actually know what will help you relax. Very important for everyone to figure out. So better help

Listening to music will help you relax or like going out and taking for a walk will help you relax. Just figure out what will help you relax and then do that more often to avoid reaching the burnout stage. You know, instead of doing all these things when you are ultimately burnout, you know? Yeah, exactly. So I want to kind of talk about your career a bit. What got you started in software? Like, did you know that you were going to go into software? And it seems as though you've always had a really strong work ethic.

So like paint that journey out for me. How did you get started? Boy, that's going to be a really long story. I didn't know what I wanted to do.

All I knew was I had to get good marks and I had to like top the board. I had to like get in a very premier top tier college. And that was the goal all the time that I had, you know, throughout my schooling and a little part of my college as well. And beyond that, in this, maybe in this first year end of my college time, I started doing

exploring and I started, hey Akshay, that's enough. You have spent too much time on academics books. You didn't really spend any time with your friends hanging out doing crazy stuff. So go do something that's exact opposite of studying. So I completely disregarded the academic part in the college life and started exploring the cultural side.

attending cultural events and getting on stage, speaking in front of thousands of people, doing some crazy stuff. And those are the things I started exploring. That's when I realized that I'm really good at sales and marketing. Back in college days, I created the first ever team for a cultural event.

And throughout the entire state, in my state, so we, there were only two all women's team. So we had to like constantly push and convince a lot of people to give us a chance. And also our head of department, like, hey, you need to give us

the permission to attend these events and let us skip our classes. So like you need to constantly persuade them, like, you know, you know, sell yourself, sell the skills that you already have. Wow. So those things I kept doing. And then we all, I also work side by side in the events, events marketing, you know, where you have to like,

go door to door to the retailers and ask them for sponsorship in the right in the you know under the sun you know scotchy heat of the sun because if you know India you know that India is super sunny in the summer part so you know you'd have to go door to door and you need to convince like big shot Indian celebrities to attend the events so that you can market use that as a marketing asset

So I kept doing a lot of different things like this. And then I figured that, hey, I think I'm good at this. You know, I'm really good at, you know, speaking in front of people. I never really knew that because I was just so buried. I buried my face inside books. I didn't know that I'm good at public speaking. I'm good at convincing people. I'm good at, you know, writing, doing creative things. And I'm good at persuading people. And I felt like maybe I should pursue a career in

That is actually, I realized those things after spending years perfecting my skills as an accountant. Oh my gosh. I spent my years working towards my accountant skills level my high school years and also the entire college was focused on accounting specialization.

Oh my goodness. All the placement companies, they were offering only accountant jobs, you know, finance and accounts job. And I felt like, hey, you need to do this. You shouldn't be doing that. So there were a lot of high paying jobs that came to our college. And I had the audacity to not attend any of the placement and even turn down some of the high paying offers that I got. And my mom was asking me,

I was like, what are you doing? Like, you know, are you crazy? Like this is the one that you've been working so hard and why are you not choosing that? I felt like, you know, accounts is boring mom, you know, you have to keep doing the same thing again and again. And there is no creativity involved. There is no people involved. And I feel like I should, I can do this for a living. And then I tried for six months. I couldn't land a job in sales and core sales and marketing.

So I went back with the finance job. I cracked it in one week because I had this specialization and I studied it my entire schooling. So I got into the job and then I literally burnt out within just three months of work.

I didn't like the job. Going into the job every day felt like a pressure and I didn't enjoy any part of it. It was so mundane and it could have, now looking back, it could have been automated by AI bro. Like why are you even doing that? Why are you giving a salary to a person to do this kind of menial job? Because there wouldn't be any career progression for a person who was performing this kind of job.

So I quit after six months of working at that huge MNC company. And I took a break for three months. My entire family is questioning me. What are you going to do? Like you just left your job at this company. What were you thinking? And then, no, I don't know. I just, it wasn't really rewarding for me.

And then for three months, I was jobless reaching out to people. That's when I knew about LinkedIn. I started reaching out to people rigorously. I didn't know what I was looking for, but there were like a couple of big SaaS giants like Freshworks, Zoho, pretty popular at that time.

time so I started reaching out to anyone under that umbrella and then reaching out to advice reaching out for mentorship reaching out for jobs reaching out for internship anything anything that I see my set my eyes on I started reaching out and one day one person named Kaushal he gave me a shout out after reaching out to him and having a small chat he said like hey I really like your enthusiasm and how much courage that you have to make it

So I'm going to give you a shout out. I'm going to give you some referrals to help you get started. And then he posted one LinkedIn post. And with that post, I landed like 10, 15 job interviews. And I cracked most of them. And I ended up choosing one company and started as a...

a sales intern. So that was my first taste as a software tech seller. I really loved it, but I really didn't like the environment that I worked in. So that was the point that I started doing all these things, cold calling, you know, writing marketing collaterals, you know,

you know, designing posters, writing LinkedIn content, you name it, anything under marketing and sales, I have done it in the last two to three years. And then I felt like, hey, this is something that I'm really good at, you know, building on the outbound motion, the experimentation, the chaos. I really like it. I want to be the builder and not the process follower to go into the chaos where the process is not built. Like the founding is the adult.

right now I am in and I started pursuing it and it's really rewarding so far for me.

Dang. How did you have courage enough to say, I'm going to stop this path that I'm on that I've worked so hard to go down and everybody's going to look at me like I'm crazy, but it's okay. It was hard. At the time, I felt like I've lost myself. If I disregard this entire thing, I don't know who I am. I don't know what am I good at because I have no experience in the sales and marketing space to back me up, to apply for any jobs.

So it felt like I'm making a huge mistake, but I did it anyway. That was, I felt so lonely. Everyone, everyone questioned me and questioned my mistakes. That actually happens with most of the people, right? You know, until you make it, people will keep doubting you and people will keep asking questions, will keep judging you until you make it. And after you make it, it's like, hey, I already knew that you would make it.

So, yeah, that's so true. And then the other thing that's funny is like when you're in the thick of it, right? Like it would be so nice and picture perfect if you could stop one job because it's not serving you and it's sucking the life out of you and then go to a different job right away and just like flip. But usually there's like an in-between period where you're just like,

not sure. You're just kind of like doing a lot of work and trying to figure it out. I do really admire the fact that when you were in that in-between period, like a lot of people just coast. Like they know they don't love something. So then they're just, I don't know, reaching out to... They're sending their resume into a lot of places, but you didn't just do that. You were like, how can I ensure that I'm going to succeed in this? And so you played the one-to-one game, which is much, much more impactful, which is, okay,

people trust people and you know a company is not hiring it is a person that is hiring for a company right so like how can i get into contact with those people or how can i um build trust with the people that could possibly recommend me what advice do you have to give to people that

are in a situation that they're not happy with that want to hop or move on to something else or don't even know what they're going to do next like you had this idea that you were good at sales and marketing too and so you had this this path for yourself like what would you say to somebody that doesn't necessarily have a path yet but like they know that they're going somewhere else that is a really good question i i feel like someone should have answered this question for me

like back when I got started. So the first thing that you should do when you're not happy where you are is start figuring out or listing down the things that you are really good at and the things that you really like. You know, it's like a Venn diagram. Things that you are really good at and the things that you really enjoy doing and the things that will help you make more money.

you know those three venn diagrams the things that actually is common with all these three venn diagram i think that's the one that you should you know start trying out one

one by one while actually doing what you are doing already and if you're not happy with the situation don't just quit it's like there are a lot of quotes that's in a circle on the internet like quit what you're doing you know quit if you don't like what way you are and then start pursuing your dream that doesn't work that way you know someone might have a family to support too some might have like in a

Some might have a lot of responsibilities to support. You just can't literally disregard everything and then pursuing your dream because some things will take time to work. So for that to happen, just take some time out of your weekend and out of your working hours or after your working hours and then start trying out the things that you already listed. Follow the rule, liking.

the strength and help you make money and then ruling out one thing at a time. And then when one thing clicks, you know, and when you are able to enjoy and when you're like, hey, this is something that I can scale. And now I think I'm confident enough to like just quit what I'm already doing.

that's when you actually you know stop doing and then start pursuing the dream of doing whatever makes you happy I love that because it's it's um sometimes I have this tendency to get overly optimistic and to be like oh yeah like you could do anything the reality is that like you can't do anything right you can't just like live a pipe dream it's

It's true that some people, you know, they have this dream of being actors and then they work at it forever and then they finally become the actor that they wanted to and it was all worth it. But there's also that story where it's like the person had this dream and they worked at it forever and they never became anything. And like as sad as that is, that is also true. And so like-

Like, so I have this mentor and he says, play games you're uniquely positioned to win. And so I think your example of what are you good at? Like, it's what do I like? And also, what am I good at? And also, where can I make money? That is the sweet spot of right now, maybe you have to see your life on this like long time horizon, right? It's like, it's not just that you're working, you know, now and that's it. And that's all you have. But you have...

say 60 years, hopefully, 70 years, 80 years to get to where you want to get to. So like, I don't know, if you have that much time, how can you build up the skillset that makes it so reasonable that you would get to where you want to go to? And then on the side, how can you work for somebody else who can pay you to build up the skillset to get to where you actually want to go to? It's cool to see and to hear the like,

statistics of founders, everybody has this pipe dream of being a young founder. It's like, oh, I'm going to be like 20 something. I'm going to be a founder. I'm going to have this great company. I'm going to know how to lead everybody. But like realistically, some of the, most of the best companies are started by 30 year old, 40 year old founders that have been in the game for a while that have been leaders in different kinds of roles that have seen things play out that kind of just know the industry, know the customer.

Like they have insight and wisdom that is honestly just something that comes through experience. And like, I don't know, I think I like your wisdom where you say,

in not so many words, but like you almost have to imagine that you are not going to be the exception, that you're going to be the rule and like plan your life around the fact that you're not going to be the exception. You're not going to be the 1%, sorry. You're going to probably be the person that has to work at it a little bit longer. And that's okay. That's a good thing. Like if you embrace the journey, there are so many good moments in between that. That is true. Like, you know, you're not compelled to pursue a job in one industry for the entire part of your life.

You can switch jobs at any time. But the thing is, you have to do it intelligently and in a way that it doesn't affect the people who are depending on you and people who are around you. So if you do it that intelligently, you can pursue any dream you want. There are literally people who are 60 and building a company, people who are in a phase of dream hiring and finding the love of their life. You can literally stop anywhere and then re-evaluate decisions and then start pursuing anything that you want.

So just don't stop at, you know, I'm really good at, I'm really comfortable at this, you know, and I've already started making so much money. The common misconception is when you switch an industry, when you switch to a whole different job, like, for example, I'm working in sales and now I want to pursue a career in engineering.

so then i i have to start all over again as a fresher so people wouldn't you know pay me for my expense so i have to like start at the base pay so that's not the case there are like a lot of skills that can be transferable skills to the other job or the other industry that you are switching to so just double down on them and then start working on the projects on the side do some consulting gigs and you know there are a lot of information that's available in the internet to help you get started

So that's how you do it. So that's how I convinced myself actually to switch industry, not just a little blindly jumping ships without any plan.

Yeah, I think that's very valuable for people to hear. Okay, let's jump into our rapid fire questions to end this out. But first question, what would you say is the, you know, the 80-20 principle? It's like the Pareto principle. It's like 80% of the results come from 20% of the work or like 20% of what you do. I have a mix of thoughts when it comes to the 80-20 principle.

I feel like, you know, we would 100% of your efforts into something you get like, you know, a hundred percent, you read the benefits. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, you know, you get to a point where like, you know, when you are experienced, when you have the expertise, that's when like, you know, you, you will be spending only a little time on something like strategizing or execution.

because you already know what you're doing hey this is a b c d and now you do that you get this so that's actually when you can say that you spend your 20 of your time doing it and then like you get

you know this kind of result it wouldn't apply for everyone you know it just differs on the skills and the experience level of people i would say what is the best advice you've ever been given that's actually a good one our best advice is get better at communication public speaking and relationship building

So if you know how to deal with people, you will get through anything and everything in your life. You can literally negotiate jobs. You can get what you want if you're really good at communication and convincing people that

this is something that needs to be done or the persuasion skills. I feel like that's the game changer for anyone. I love that. What is your definition of success? My definition of success is a financial stability surrounded by loving family, friends, and an opportunity to give back to the society and empower other women who are stuck in the environment that I was once stuck in.

you know, not being able to pursue the things that I want. So I want to, you know, be lead by lead as an example to these women and to help them get through those situations to help them achieve their potential. Want to give ideally it would be, I want to give back and then

And then while also not stressing so much about money and enjoying quality time with family and friends is my definition of success. What are you not willing to give up? Like when you look at your career and the things that you're working on and through, you're obviously willing to pay certain prices like working later, working harder. What are you not willing to give up on this journey? That question.

could take a minute. I'm not willing to give up the remote work at the moment because right now that's helping me serve my family as well as my career better because the remote work has its pros and cons. But I feel like that is that helps me balance the life right now that I'm living. So I don't want to give up the remote work. But other than that, I think most of other things that I, everything that's not negotiable for me, I don't want to give up anything that I'm having right now.

Literally anything that I am right now, because everything that I'm having right now is something that I've worked for years. So it's completely non-negotiable for me. But at this moment, this remote work is not negotiable for me.

Good answer. And then last question, looking back at what you've done so far, is there anything that you regret or wish that you did differently? Any advice you'd give to your younger self? Don't be so hard on yourself. I know I'm trying to be perfect in everything that you do. Like you need to keep hustling so much. Otherwise you will fail.

I kept saying that to myself. I felt like maybe I could have relaxed a bit, enjoyed my childhood a little bit better than what I did. So that, you know, when other people share other things, looking back, I just did only one thing, just hustle. I didn't do any other stuff. Like that's the biggest regret that I had. I don't have any good memories of hanging out or like doing fun things. So I felt like I should have spent more time doing those things instead of just hustling all the time.

So relax or take a pause. You will never be 21. You'll never be 16. You'll never be 25. You'll never be 30 again. So everything that every phase of your life you experience only once. So make sure that you have like a good balance of enjoying where you are. Also hustle into where you want to be. Getting the right balance. You know, anything in an exceeded amount is toxic for everyone. Dang. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This has been so much fun and I hope a lot of people got a lot out of it.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful chatting with you Ella.