🎤 PODCAST • Justice vs. Moral Equivalence ~ The injustice of blaming the victim - a short interview with Dr. Yaron Brook
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I have as my guest today Dr. Yaron Brook. He's the president and executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute. He's worked in academia, where he's received numerous teaching awards. He's also an entrepreneur who has founded several companies. He lectures extensively in the United States and abroad on many topics, including ethics, and he's served in the Israeli Army Intelligence. Dr. Yaron Brook, welcome. Thank you.

Thanks for having me on. Oh, it's wonderful to have you on again. You served in the Israeli army intelligence, and you must have seen the methods that the terrorists use to destroy a person. And I want to bring it to the family first, and then you can elaborate on it in terms of what you see in politics going on now or in Israel when you were serving in the army intelligence. If a woman is raped...

There's a difference. If she's kicking and punching the rapist, trying to escape, we recognize a difference between the initiation of force, which is the rapist, and the retaliation, the woman trying to fight back. If she pokes out his eyes or punches him in some place, that hurts a heck of a lot. He's earned it, and we sit there and say, yay for you to the woman.

Something different is happening now on the political scene. We can see the difference between the initiation of force and retaliation. I'm wondering what you see now that makes those two equivalent, the rapist, the equivalent of the victim.

Well, you see that from our universities. You see that from university professors who claim that the United States is equivalent to the terrorists who attacked us on September 11th, that we're the same morally, that America is somehow a terrorist state, and in many respects worse than the terrorists. This is what they claim. But when you say this, you know, I'm rolling my eyes, raising my eyebrows, like, why would anybody believe this crap?

uh... that's a good question and i i think because it's uh... it it appeals to uh... just certain group of people who five you want to criticize uh... he america it uh... you know in any way that they can't uh... usually comes out from people who don't believe enough system who don't believe in capitalism we don't believe in freedom who don't believe in individual right and to them

uh... the fact that we chose this particular system this particular system of freedom is the same as somebody else who chooses slavery uh... chooses dictatorship choose to choose as a religious uh... theocracy because for them there is no right or wrong there is no truth and falsehood they believe that reality is a flock that nothing nothing that you actually see

really exist. You make it up as you go along. But I don't think anybody genuinely believes this. I think that's a cover-up. I think that they're envious. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the psychological element that's driving them is envy, but, you know, there are hundreds of years of philosophical writings trying to justify the fact that there is no right or wrong, that everything's relative, and there is no real reality, that we just make it up

as we go along. People adopt those philosophies for various psychological reasons. It's a great crutch to believe that you can create your own reality in your own mind and you don't have to pay attention to the laws of gravity and the laws around you.

Okay, so there are many people, fortunately they're not in the majority in the United States, otherwise we would not be a civilized country. But there are people that really are envious and they're driven by the motive to make anything look equivalent to anything good look like it's the equivalent to something equally bad. It's like this is whitewashing the bad.

Yeah, I mean, it's one way to justify bad. The way to justify bad is to say that it's equivalent to good. Or to say that there is no such thing as good or bad. So let me give an example. What about the priests who are pedophiles? Yeah. How do they make them seem... What do the apologists for those people say?

Well, I mean, they say, well, we all have flaws. We all commit sins, and as long as they repent, that's okay. I mean, the real nasty ones, the real evil ones, will actually say it's good for the kids in some sick way.

in some sick way. Or that the kids ask for it. Or that the kids ask for it, exactly. But I think others try to justify it in a sense that we all have evil in us. None of us are perfect. None of us are completely pure, good people, which I think is complete nonsense, particularly when you take it to that kind of abusive degree. Well, how can you tell... Luckily, most of us are not that bad.

Here's a tough question. How can you tell the difference between good and evil? Hey, I gotta interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad and then Ellen will be back. Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw?

Here it is. The Selfish Path to Romance. A serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com and buy it at amazon.com. Hmm. The Selfish Path to Romance. That is interesting. Here it is.

Here's a tough question. How can you tell the difference between good and evil? Well, good is that which supports human life. Good is that which leads to success, to prospering. Good is that which is rational, which is consistent with reality.

And bad tends to be whim-worshipping. It tends to be a negation of reality, an escape from reality. And therefore, it is anti-life. It's anti-human life. And it usually involves hurting oneself and hurting other people.

Okay, so my show is called The Rational Basis of Happiness. Most people want to be happy. I mean, either that or they've just given up on their lives, but they come into therapy saying, I feel anxious, I'm having panic attacks, or I just don't feel like my life is going in any direction, I don't have any focus in my life.

and I'm not happy. And you're saying that there's a standard for good, that if that person is more rational, they're more likely to achieve happiness.

Whereas if they think that anything goes or that the guys in the prison are the equivalent of the guys, the universities they are in some cases, but of the better professors, then it seems like there's no good or evil and why bother? Why set goals? Why try to achieve anything in life if you're no good if you do it?

That's absolutely true. And more than that, one of the things religion teaches us, which I think is horrific, is the notion that you can be good and not happy. That is, that you get your happiness from some other world after you die. And I believe that

leading a good life, being good, being rational, leads to happiness. The two are not divorced from one another. And that doing good things in this life does lead to good outcomes, to happiness, and doing bad things leads to misery. And that good is achievable, and it's rational. It's not an escape from reality. It's

embracing reality. So the kid in a family who sets goals, who goes out and achieves them, or if you're an individual in your early 20s and you really want a career, you want to achieve good things in your life, you want to have a wonderful romantic relationship and wonderful hobbies, and you achieve them, you will be acting rationally. That'll be good.

And that's not the equivalent of what? What would be the alternative? Robbing people? Backstabbing them? Absolutely. I mean, you deserve that happiness. And the people who are backstabbing and so on, they were bad and they don't deserve to be happy. And indeed, they won't be happy. And hopefully they'll get caught and go to jail. Yeah.

But there is reward and punishment for good and bad behavior, psychological rewards and punishments, and existential rewards and punishments in reality. Okay, so if a guy has an affair and he has a very wonderful wife, not an awful, god-awful one where you'd say, good for you, then you...

then he would feel very guilty, but he earned that guilt. He can't go to a therapist and say, take away my guilt, because he created that for himself. Absolutely. He will suffer the consequence of his bad actions. Okay. Well, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. With me today has been Dr. Yaron Brook, the President and Executive Director of the Ayn Rand Institute, and we've been talking about the fact that you need standards for good and bad in life, and you need them for your own personal happiness. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you.

The good you can take from that is think of your own life and ask yourself the question, "Am I leading a life that brings me rewards, that brings me happiness, or am I building up resentments? Every day I'm feeling more bitter towards my kids, my husband, my wife, my parents, my coworkers."

If you're building up resentment, you want to look and say, am I living a duty-bound life? I'm not living my own life. I'm living for everybody else. I'm living in the shadow of everybody else. That's not going to bring you happiness. And you want to be able to reverse that, adopt the ideas that bring you much happiness.

much more self-fulfillment. For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to drkenner.com and please listen to this ad. Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner. Here are a few assertiveness tips that may help you express yourself more effectively. One, ask your partner to verify that he or she has heard what you said. This will avoid misunderstandings.

For example, ask in a genuine tone of caring, Have I expressed myself clearly? Two, if you did something wrong, be honest about your mistakes. When you own up to the truth, you do not engage in endless battles, starting with, I'm sorry, but... The buts may put your partner back on the attack again, and they do not work toward resolving the conflict. Furthermore, when you are honest, your partner has more respect for you.

Admitting mistakes is not a sign of weakness, but of moral integrity. This strengthens your self-esteem. You can download Chapter 1 for free by going to drkenner.com. And you can buy the book at Amazon.com.