The TDE Song Draft
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I made that particular beat the same day as my grandfather's funeral. And so I came home with the intent of literally allowing emotion to change the decision making on that production. Everything from the souls of the sample that I chose to the drums, to the bass line, to all that stuff. And I had no idea it would land as a song that is like a fan favorite of souls.

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Welcome everyone to dissect i'm your host kulkishna our mr. Morale season will be returning next week for the count me out episode. Thank you everyone for your patience, but I am very excited about today's episode a tde song draft where we're celebrating the most consequential hip-hop music label of the 21st century by drafting our favorite songs from their incredibly deep catalog.

Joining me for today's draft is rapper, producer, and one half of the Rap Latte podcast, King Green. Welcome back to the show, Green. Thank you for having me. Always down to talk hip hop. And joining Dicek for the first time is rapper, creator, and producer, who has worked with a handful of TD artists directly, Curtis King. What's up, Curtis? Man, what's up? How you doing? Thank you so much for the invitation. Honored to be here. Yeah, thanks for both of you guys joining.

joining the show. We're going to do the draft in a second, but I wanted to start the conversation off just talking about TDE a little bit in general.

and to kind of tee up that conversation, I wanted to start with some kind of just some bullet point facts to just kind of convey how dominant they have been for the past, what, 15 years. I had my friend over at Hip Hop by the Numbers accumulate some stats for us. Hip Hop by the Numbers is a great social media account, does all kinds of cool statistics around music and albums and labels. And so,

Here's how just how dominant they've been for the past 15 years. They have 41 total projects and on Spotify alone, they have a generated 58 billion streams. That is 1.4 billion across 40, an average of 1.4 billion. That's just on Spotify. That's not Apple. That's not YouTube. That's just Spotify.

They have seven number one albums. They have 11 top five albums. They have 30 projects that have charted on the two billboard 200 chart, which is 73% of their total output has charted, which is insane.

And they're not going anywhere anytime soon. They have the number SZA's SOS is back on number, uh, the number one album again, at the time of recording this SZA and Kendrick are on this huge stadium tour. Don't she just won a Grammy for a rap album of the year. One of the most exciting new artists that we have, uh, across all genres and Ray Vaughn just dropped. What is my personal rap out in the year so far in the good, the bad and the dollar menu. Uh,

So we are just witnessing an incredible run across hip hop. And I mean, with Dochi, with SZA, with some of these, they're kind of branching out into new genres. This is just a music label. They're no longer just a hip hop label. So Green, I want to start with you. What is it about? What do you see from a distance with TDE that has made them this dominant for this long?

It seems like they have a structure in place and a care. So when I say structure is like a consistency like that can't happen without like strategy and plan. Like you just can't, you can't be consistent without like a plan and strategy. And then like,

The care, it feels like they care about the music before we put it out. So that brand being translated to us, it's completely has been translated. I'm completely outside of TD and all I know is that I'm going to get quality music from this label. Even if I don't even like, like I might never heard of this artist before. I'm like, this guy must be quality. I assume. And that comes from 15 years of you consistently promoting high quality.

It's just been like that. Yeah. For me, it's like, I remember when I was like in middle school and I was like, really, I was in my like punk rock phase and this is pre streaming. This is pre like, this is when you had to spend money to, you know, buy albums. So every album that you purchased actually counted, you know, you had to really like pick and choose, especially when you don't have money. Oh my God, you had to buy albums? Yeah. So, but I remember you would get, I would get these catalogs from like Epitaph Records or like Lookout Records, these like indie punk ska labels and like,

Because they were assigned to these labels, you trusted and just giving them, you know, you would just buy blind. Okay. This new artist is on lookout records and I love all every other artists on lookout records. Let me pay $15. I've never even heard a song by this band before, but I, I just expect a certain quality level with this record label. And it feels like TDE is like,

Really the only, the really the only label that I can think of in the, in the modern day that I have the same kind of affinity and trust in to your point green about just like anyone they sign. I'm like, okay, I'm in, I'm in until they prove me differently. Right. Just because they have that history. Curtis, I'm wondering since you were, and maybe give it a little bit of background about your workings with some of the TD artists, particularly artists,

in those early days. I'm wondering, along with that, was there anything when you were working with them so closely in those early days that you saw that kind of told you before they were proven on a mass scale, you know, that kind of showed you, okay, these guys are a little bit different than what I'm used to. Right. So my initial introduction to TDE was working as a producer with an artist named Abso.

And I remember when he first got signed over there, you know, he told me that things were going to be very different for him and in turn, anybody who worked with him. But yeah.

I could just say this from the very first invitation into the studio. One thing that I saw there that I did not see in probably 95 percent of the environments that I went to was the type of discipline they established. Right. Even those very early years, it was almost as if even if they couldn't tell you the specifics of where they would be, they knew they would be.

somewhere, right? And this is before the Draco sign is before Interscope before all of that stuff as an independent brand, they moved like a football team. And that was something that even as I was an artist and a producer on an independent label, we would, we would try our best to kind of follow suit and mirror that because I just had never saw anything like that. So

Some of this is very surprising to see. I mean, I guess this brand of hip hop that usually is very niche and very, you know, to hip hop heads be embraced by the rest of the world is surprising at times. But then at the same time, when I think about how hard they work, it's not really a surprise. They the catalog is.

before the rest of the world, New Kendrick, his catalog is absolutely ridiculous, but that goes for the majority of them is that they really use that environment to work. Yeah. I love that they're so successful yet they've remained authentic through every iteration of new music trends, right? They have just stuck to their own formula, play the game here and there, like as you should and as you need to, to survive, but more or less like

like the same kind of grassroots. There's still that core. You can feel it in the, in the artists that they sign and the projects that they put out that, that core never has, at least from afar has just never left the, the imprint. And, and,

To not cash out as you've seen so many artists and labels do with their brand, to remain authentic, I think goes a long way into how they've lasted this long. But let's jump into the draft because I think the draft will facilitate a lot of discussion around specific artists, specific eras, albums, etc.,

So let me lay out the rules of the draft for the listeners. And then we're going to do a little bit of trivia. I'm going to surprise you guys with some TDE trivia to determine our draft order. So this is a song draft. If you've not heard one of these before, essentially, we're going to be picking a starting five. So think of like a basketball team starting five. And so each of us is going to draft a quote unquote team of five songs from the TDE catalog.

And there's five different categories, or actually four categories that we're going to draft from. So we're each required to draft from one category, each of these categories at least once. So the categories are hit song, so platinum song or bigger. One collaborative tracks, meaning two or more TD artists on the same record.

One deep cut, which is I'm defining as released between 2004 to 2012, but not good kid, mad city. Good, good kid, mad city is kind of the line I'm drawing there. And then we each get two free spaces, meaning just two personal favorites that don't fall into any category. Two rules we cannot select.

We cannot select more than one song from any single artist. For example, you can't have more than one song from Kendrick as the lead artist. However, you can have one Kendrick song and one Kendrick feature. Rule number two, you can draft from any category at any time.

but you can't select a song that someone else has picked. So any questions about the format before we get into draft order? No. All right. We're going to do a snake order draft. You guys know snake order in terms of it's going to go one, two, three, and then the person with the third pick, the order will reverse. So then I'll go three, two, one, one, two, three, just snake order draft.

And I'm going to go third. I'll just draft third because I want to do a little bit of TDE trivia to see who gets the first pick in the draft. So we're going to do...

The first, I have, I have a handful of questions already. Yeah. Curtis got a little bit of an advantage here, but I have no idea what you're talking about. These are all blind questions and they're a little bit tricky. So we're going to go first person to get two questions, right? It's going to get that first pick.

And I have, we're gonna, I'm gonna start it with just an open-ended question, but then I do have multiple choice if no one just knows the answer outright. And so just call out the, call it the answer if you know it. First person to call it out will get the point. Okay, so question number one. J-Rock released his first mixtape in May of 2006, which was the first TDE release. What was the name of this mixtape? Multiple choice. Okay, A,

No sleep till NYC B Watts finest volume one or C the Nickerson files. No sleep till NYC. Nope. Nope. Green. That was number two.

Watts finest volume one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Point for green. No sleep till NYC was, I think is technically his fourth. Cause he did two, three volumes of Watts finest. That's what it was. And Nickerson files was volume two. Um, and for the record, I didn't know this till I looked it up. So, um,

Okay. Curtis basically gave me that one. I have no idea what you're talking about. This is not a strategic plan in any way. All right. Question number two. How did Kendrick Lamar get discovered by TDE? Was it A, Kendrick rapped for Punch after seeing him on the street? B, Dave Free played Kendrick's mixtape for Top Dog? C, Top Dog heard Kendrick at a local Cypher? B. B. Yep.

B, so Dave Free was a high school DJ and he was recruiting young MCs in high school. One being a 16-year-old Kendrick Lamar who had a mixtape called Minor of the Year.

And Top Dog was like in, in the area was apparently the only kind of in to the music industry at the time in the neighborhood. So Dave pretended to be a computer technician that was going to fix Top Dog's computer. But really he was just there to play Kendrick's mixtape as he was quote unquote fixing, fixing the laptop or the computer and Top Dog took the bait and the rest is history. So yeah,

Okay, green technically, you got the first pick, but you guys want to do one more question for fun? Let's do it. All right, this one's good. What was TDE's first number one album on the Billboard 200? Was it A, Oxymoron, Schoolboy Q, B, Good Kid, Mad City, or C, To Pimp a Butterfly? I'm going with Good Kid, Mad City. Oxymoron.

oxymoron yep good kid mad city was number two because of uh red taylor swift came out the same the same day yeah so blocked it but oxymoron number one which is kind of crazy right i remember that the thing is i remember i like oxymoron like better than i like schoolboy q better than everybody when he was in his blogger so i remember that joint being like big right so i made that guess just off of that but

All right, Green, we got the first pick. So you can pick from any category, anything you want. So number one, number one pick. Like, I don't know the value of these songs, like in, you know, in the battle. So I'm just gonna pick the songs I like. But I'm thinking about this should be some strategy behind this. But I'm gonna go with in any category, correct? Yep.

I'm going Collard Greens and Collaborative Track, Schoolboy and Kendrick. That is probably my favorite TDE collaboration of all time.

If you duo. Yeah, that's, that's high praise. You want to tell a little bit? Why a little more specifics? Why, why that one out of all the collaboration tracks to this day, that's one of the most unique popular songs I've ever heard. Think like that beat.

The driving beat and the loop of the bass line, it gives you Outkast without feeling like you're ripping off Outkast. It feels completely new. And that's why I like Schoolboy Q so much is like this man's a crip, but he's like the most authentically original artist.

rapper like and beat picker like he just likes things you could tell that he likes things that feel unique he's not trying to make what's hot and most people kind of go with the gray you know i'm saying and he goes completely against it so that beat is and then he makes hot shit out of it that's the craziest thing about it's like i'm gonna make something actually hot out of this weird beat so yeah i love his cadence structure on his verse too

It's like the dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Like the, just the rhyme structure is really unique. So unique to school boy. You like this song, Curtis? Yeah, it was actually my damn choice. Oh shit. That's good strategy from green. Then I got to dig into my back. Okay. So number two, uh, is Curtis pick any, any category? What are we going with?

let's go with a hit song and um i'm gonna check one that i think is gonna be a sleeper uh in this category take j-rock win okay yeah yeah i i think aside from it just being a song that um is just high quality in itself i think the statement it made for it coming full circle after we saw the success of kendrick we saw the success of uh his tde peers

Being that it's a song that goes right back to the foundation of where most people were introduced to T.D., my first introduction, even through working with Soul, was seeing J-Rock really get that push, do a song with Wayne and be one of those artists coming out the West Coast that were looked at as the next ones coming up. And, yeah.

Knowing some of the stuff that has been shared about his label issues he was dealing with, I believe with Warner Brothers and being able to take everything and bring it back full circle. And then they enjoy that with Kendrick on the hook. It just what I loved about it is that they didn't try to make J-Rock go mainstream. Mainstream went J-Rock. That could easily fit on many J-Rock projects. So yeah.

I just love how celebratory that song is. And the production is insane. And it genuinely sounds like a TDE record. Yeah. Just another example of them finding a hit without kind of playing the formula or just finding the line where it's like, yeah, still authentic, still has a great hook, great beat. You hear that song must get like crazy syncs.

I hear it. I kind of hear it everywhere. You know, basketball games. I know for a fact that song gets a lot of things. That's great. Okay. So I'm going to go third for the, I'm going to go, let me go. Let's see. Let me go. I'm going to go my posse cut. My collaborative track for my first pick. A lot of great choices in this one. Collar Greens was on my short list.

That part remix is on my short list. King's dead's on my short list, but I'm going to have to go a little bit further back. I'm going with black lip bastard remix, uh, from the absolute featuring black hippie. I love this song because it sounds like East. It sounds like a Wu Tang beat. Um, and so it has this different flavor that,

you're not quite used to from a TD collaboration track.

Um, but you know how much these guys have kind of looked up to Wu Tang, uh, even I think did in your interview with, with punch Curtis, did, was that where he talked about them pretending to rap from different perspectives of different members of the Wu Tang clan? Is that where I heard that? Yeah. Matter of fact, that's one of the first things I heard from them as a collective. Oh, really? And I was listening to records, you know, when I went into the environment and I heard, I was like, what?

What is this? Oh, this is just something that's kind of to me. It was presented as this is practice for them. Oh, it's a discipline again. This was their practice of all playing roles. You take somebody from Wu-Tang. I'll be this person. You be this person. You be this person. And we'll address the song punchers on that song as well. But I ended up being a song that that came out according to punch. But yeah, that's that was that was from that conversation for sure.

Yeah. That's crazy. That's really cool to hear that, that, cause you can feel that. I mean, that's a stuff that you imagine they would be doing just like for fun and stuff, but then to hear it like confirmed, that's like amazing. So that's, that's one reason why I love what love this. It's a, it's a posse cut with no hooks, which is one of my favorite just formats ever is just back to back versus, and everyone's wrapping their off and just kind of elevating each other and

And it's early enough. It's, it's May, 2020, 12. Um, so it really captures some of the,

Like you think about the remix to that part, and it's very polished. Not in a bad way, but just it has a little more sheen on it. Where this, I feel like it just still has that early chemistry, that early kind of rawness to it. And again, everyone is going bar for bar and just bringing out the best in each other. Of course, I had to break down a few specific lines

one, one that I wanted to call out. So Kendrick opens the song and he says, black lit bastard referring to Absol, which was his nickname at the time. Pass me your password so I can hack inside your brain. See, I too have gone insane. So gone insane is a play is a song title off a long-term mentality and Absol song. So he's calling out back to that early record.

Uh, kind of saying I've been down from day one, but what I loved about this opening line in retrospect now, having heard the heart part six, when he says,

essentially says, I forgot the bar exactly, but it says like, I wanted to rap like Abseil. He was the guy that I looked up to in those early days and I was trying to mimic. And then here you have him essentially saying the same thing, pass me your password so I can hack inside your brain. Like literally let me see how your brain works as you're writing these raps so I can try to imitate or do my version of this crazy lyrical wordplay. So I just, you know, that was kind of a cool little full circle thing to kind of

see in retrospect. Um, Absel has a crazy verse. Of course. Uh, one of my favorite lines, he says, uh, wait, we were talking on, we were talking offline about the NBA right before this conversation, but one of my favorite genres, sub genres of hip hop is like,

NBA references bars with NBA references. And this is a great one. He says your basic like cable to a satellite dish. You was running LA. Now you out there like fish. So he's saying like, you're like fish out of water. But at this time, Derek Fisher was just,

was on point guard running the Lakers, but then was traded to Oklahoma city. And so he was out of there like fish, fish out of water, Derek Fisher. But also when he says you was running LA, this is a play on run this town by Jay Z because the very next line, he says, what more can I say? A song off the black album. He says, I'm a bastard with, with black lips and black shirt, black shades, long black dick. And so he's playing off of,

the lyrics in Run This Town when Jay-Z said, get your fatigues on, all black everything, black cards, black cars, all black everything. So of course, Absol comes in with just like the craziest lyrics. And I can go through every verse like this, but J-Rock has great verse, Schoolboy, great verse. So for all those reasons, I'm going with Black Lip Bastard remix for my first pick. But I also get number three.

You guys familiar with the song? I know it's kind of more of a deep cut. Definitely a deep cut. Yeah. I'm familiar with it, but I was definitely more of a fan. That's why I don't even have too many for the deep cuts things other than Schoolboy and Kendrick. Because at that time, for my taste, I was only a fan of those two. And then as time went on, I started knowing more about Abso and really getting into Abso. So, yeah.

Yeah. It's events. Anytime you see those names stacked up against or stacked up with each other. So I very well remember those sort of the end of blog error energy that came along with that, where it's like, oh, are we going to get this remix? Oh, is it possible that? So, yeah, that energy all over that is just infectious. All right. So I'm going to go. We're snake ordering. So I get two back to back picks. I'm going to go with.

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slash Simmons and you get 20% off your first purchase with Viori. V-U-O-R-I dot com slash Simmons. Enjoy free shipping on all U.S. orders over $75 plus free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. Let me mix it up. Let me go. I'm going new. So I'm going to go with one of my free picks. And because I want to talk about this album, I'm going to go with

I'm going to go flat Shasta by Ray Vaughan. So

This is more of an excuse just to talk about this record. I'm not sure how familiar you guys are. It just came out what a week and a half ago at the time of this recording. And I was, I have been so thoroughly impressed. It's a, it's an addictive album album to me. Every time I get my car now, I'm just like, let me put that record on. Let me get, I need to keep hearing this thing because I heard about Ray Vaughn just through one is TDE signing, but also his freestyles like on, on like radio shows and just,

just obviously killing it every single time and viral moments, multiple viral moments just off of freestyles. And so it was like someone I was of course going to keep my eye on and just kind of throw, he was kind of throwing out singles for a couple of years now.

And so when it, when this new project, uh, the good, the bag and the dollar menu came out, I was kind of expecting just kind of bangers and more just like lyrical wordplay and more stuff like the freestyle, but very much taken aback with how vulnerable this record is, how much storytelling there is, how much thematic consistency developing this like food motif and this hunger motif and all these different layers, uh, that he's developing within that same motif. Um,

And Flat Shasta to me encapsulates so much of this record. It's about his mother, who is a kind of a recurring figure. We actually hear his mother, I think, a few times on the album directly and just really getting vulnerable about his relationship with his mother on Flat Shasta and using this metaphor of Shasta soda to

And it going flat as being symbolic of struggling, seeing his mother kind of getting overtaken by schizophrenia. In the song, he says, mama, you need meds for schizo, but you won't take it. If you lose all your marbles, you ain't going to have none to play with. A black woman who's crying for help and I'm trying to save her. The last thing you want to be called in this world is crazy. I'm just praying that your Shasta ain't flat.

And so that's just a taste of the kind of vulnerability in not only this song, but across the whole project. It has a few bangers on there, but not as many as you would think in terms of just like upbeat, just wordplay fun songs. There's just like, he is telling a linear story, uh,

Um, with just really heartfelt themes showing me a side of him that I was just not expecting. And it is my current rap album of the year. I was, I've been so impressed and it's just, he's calling it a mixtape, which is crazy. Um, so Curtis, I'm curious to hear your thoughts just on the project in general.

Right. So we did a album listening or album review of it. And same thing that you said was the vulnerability was the thing that stood out to me. To me, also zooming out of the vulnerability, the elite production, the top tier lyricism. It to me, it kind of showed the audience that that first run was no fluke by by any nature. Right. And that

What worked then works now. And that thing being authenticity, I don't care what's on the radio right now. I don't care what the current climate is right now. Stories that cut through the noise are going to always be ones that we can see a little bit of ourselves inside of. Right. And I think he does it so well where he allows his voice to break. He allows his pitch to go down when it needs to. He allows it to be conversational when it's not something that needs to be, you know, uh,

Lyrical miracle. Yeah, at the top of his lungs. I think he does a really good job of just proximity-wise talking to his subject matter. And yeah, it's something to me that just feels like it could have easily come out in those earlier TDE mixtape years, and nobody would have thought that any momentum was lost at all. It's encouraging to hear, especially from a younger artist, that that sound is still prevalent. Green, you hear the record yet?

Some of it. I didn't fully get into it. But when I the first few tracks that I did get into is the same perspective I had. I didn't expect it to be like, oh, I really want to give you the story and vulnerability as well as the number one thing that I got from it is I was just like, wow, these guys really care about.

giving an audience a story and getting the people who want that. Because that's what we want. We want to build you an actual fan base, a core. It seems like they're okay with, hey, strengthen your core before we start. That's why I think it's called a mixtape. Strengthen your core before we start hitting for the fences. Make sure you do your weights, get strong. You are a fully formed athlete now, right?

We're now let's get these runs. That's what it seems like they do. And they did that with Dochi, but kind of try to get her hit. And I feel like they stepped back and let her do her thing. And that's when she actually broke. And that's the beauty of that. This label is that even if they're trying to play the game and you see something maybe not work or anything like that, they go, they can go back to what they know, which is let's build this core and get you where you need to be.

Yeah. And I don't know about Ray Vaughn specifically, but I feel like they're really good about like you get signed TDE and it's like, you want to start popping off, you want to release projects and you want to like get your name out there. But it feels like to me from a distance at TDE, like,

teaches their artists the value of patience, the value of timing, the value of quality over quantity and just, yeah, waiting for the perfect time with your perfect story. Let's not rush this. You know, I know you're excited. I know you want to get popping off, but like, like there's a certain way that we do it and, and longevity has proved us correctly. So I feel like that again, I don't know if that was Ray Vaughn, Ray Vaughn's experience, but it feels like, you know, he got signed, you know,

a few years ago now, at least. Right. And so for his first real mixtape project to come out to two years after that's, that's kind of a long time, you know, for a new artist that wants to get off the ground. So that's something I really admire about this label. Curtis, anything you want to add, but, or it's your next pick. So.

Yeah, I mean, once again, going back to that discipline, I keep saying that is that I do think that that is established from the higher up down, you know, from from top dog, from punch, that when folks trust in the process, their time will come. And, you know, I think listeners sometimes because they're not as.

On social media, as maybe a lot of the other labels in hip hop are, one thing they should not be confused is whether or not these individuals are working right. Even artists who have expressed, you know, their distaste with not releasing music frequently. It's not because they don't have the ability to make music. It's that they can't release what they have already worked on. So that's huge is that you do a lot of putting up a lot of shots in the gym.

Um, for my next pick, I hate to go. So the complete opposite of a flat Shasta, but I'm taking my collaborative one with schoolboy Q drug is with holes again, featuring Abso. It is reckless.

It is experimental. It is wild. The production is just insane. And from somebody who doesn't partake in any drugs, it feels like I'm going through an actual episode as I listen to it. To me, this was really interesting because I started to notice that the friends of mine that didn't typically listen to rap.

or anything hip-hop started to take notice and wanted to go to the shows. They were interested in what is this energy that I don't necessarily always hear from this genre. I love the experimentation, not just with Schoolboy and Ab-Soul, which I think had outstanding chemistry, but even the engineering by Ali on that one is just insane. When you're thinking about

Some of the glitching of the vocals pitching down and then fading in with something else. There's so much going on, even the ad libs, which is kind of a signature of schoolboy Q. You got these crazy chant ad libs that are panning left and right. There's so much going on here that is beyond just the actual title and the concept of music. It's just to me, the...

I compare it to like having Ron Artest on your team. Right. The wild card. You need every championship team has a Draymond Green. Right. Has somebody that's like just a little bit. Dennis Rodman, Draymond Green. Dennis Rodman. Exactly. You need it. I feel like this is the kind of song that makes it to where

You can't just call it, oh, they're in the traditional boom bap classic hip hop. It's like, no, they're all of this and they're innovating along the way. So when I listen to a song like this, just from the production, I think they had another one that was called Sopa. Like there's so many of these that I'm just like, to me, these are the ultimate wild cards that win you championships for sure that people forget about sometimes.

Yeah, it's a great analogy. And you bringing up Ali is something I wanted to talk about at some point. So why not now? Um,

You know, you hear about them working with the same guys. It's like they have a true team in Ali, Soundwave, Name, kind of these guys that have been producing and working with these guys since day one. Curtis, since you're kind of around since day one, can you just speak a little bit on that, the importance of working and developing alongside your quote unquote teammates like that, like which seems very unique again to this label?

Right. I think there exists a lot of personalities in rap and a lot of different goals. Right. I've met a lot of different artists who I came in collaborating with, but then they

time would show that they had other plans, right? They wanted to kind of work their way up the ladder. And I think a lot of value was missed when I get younger artists that are asking me, you know, how do I kind of level up? And I'm like, your level up exists where you're at right now. There is someone right now for me, there's someone right now that can, that if you work with them and you build the chemistry, you will be an indestructible duo or trio, whatever the case may be.

That's what it was with soul. Absol was working at a magic disc store, which was the local store that we would all get our DVDs and CDs from vinyls from and our pro club t-shirts and all of that stuff. So I already was going down there. This is a guy that would come over my grandmother's patio and record music. And I, I saw what to me sounded like a young Jay-Z. And I said, well,

I think that it's this is a very valuable relationship to continue to make music is one. I love the music that we're making, but two, I feel like as you progress, I'm going to progress no matter what happens. We're going to progress. So I just say that I think that that's the cheat code is that.

It's going back to the NBA analogy. The teams that are winning right now, the ones that have been together for a few years. I know your habits. I know where you'll be. I know you're going to be out there in the corner. Even if I don't see you, I know to pass the ball out there and I can trust it. The trust, the chemistry, the the constant motivation from seeing people that are working. I think all that plays a role. And, you know, with Ali being there with the engineering, it's just something that just made so much sense.

Yeah, I'm wondering in your experience working with them,

Did you ever get like, I'm wondering what the feedback process is in their camp. I assume it's very open and you're allowed to be critical or, or give your honest opinion. If it's, if it's subpar or you need to push it, you know, it feels like they're, they would be totally comfortable. Did you ever have any? Yeah. I sat there sometimes on a laptop, you know, I was pretty quiet in those rooms. I just kind of look and observe and I would hear it straight up. And it's like,

But of course, but you have the thing is we can't lie to each other in this room because the rest of the world is not going to lie to us because they don't owe us anything. One thing that we can't allow is.

Is for the outside world to determine what our standard is going to be. And when you see there was already of kind of a code of conduct on the wall, they had a collective mission statement that, you know, punch talked about in our interview. When that's established, you know, if it's not a matter of winning over the world or the point of view, everybody outside, we need to win inside here. Right. When we do that here, the rest of the world will will adjust as it should. All right. Beautiful. Green, you're up next.

All right. I'm going to go with the hit song and I'm going to go with All Right by Kendrick Lamar, which is besides, besides peekaboo, I think that's like my favorite Kendrick Lamar song because as a songwriter, I just, I just love great songs. I love great songs as far as the songwriting, great production and great lyrics as well as great impact. I think all those things matter with a great song, you know, because someone can have a good song that no one ever heard. I'll still, we still know it's great or good, but yeah,

I feel like it's, we shall overcome what's going on, fight the power and then all right. And to be able to have a song that is in that like category, it's incredible. Like nobody has that. I just named five songs that like, when you, when I said them, I know people heard them and they know exactly what they mean to that time period, to the culture. And that's how I feel about. All right. We go be all right. We go.

Yeah, what I love about All Right, actually, is when you actually look at the lyrics, on top of everything that you just said and how diverse it is as a song in one,

It also fits the narrative of to Pippa butterfly. Like if you listen to the first verse, when I wake up, I recognize that you look at me for the pay cut. He's talking about uncle Sam, which is to that point in the album was, uh, was the villain, the antagonist. And so you get the defeat of uncle Sam on the opening line, uh,

Uh, and when he says, when I wake up, he's referring to you where he was drunk in the hotel room and went on that kind of like really emotional, um, those couple of verses. And so this is the morning after of that, that drunken kind of tirade on himself. And so you get the narrative. He doesn't sacrifice the narrative function of that song in the track order of the linear story that he's telling across, uh, the entire album yet.

plucked from out of the album. It works as an anthem. It works as all those things you said. It's like the, and Oh, by the way, on verse two, he introduces the new antagonist of Lucy for, and sets that up because the next song is for free or for sale. And that that's dealing with, with Lucy there directly. So it's like,

The, all the things that he's accomplishing in one song and it's a hit song and, and it's an anthem and it's like going to be the song that we look back to in like 200 years from now, what defined 2015, what was going on in America at the time? What's the one song we need to listen to and look to, to help us understand the grassroots kind of energy during this time, like it's going to be all right. And so it's just like, it's crazy how much, how complex and layered this song is. Curtis, I'm sure you agree. Yeah.

Yeah, that song is one of those where immediately it takes you right back to that time. That's like looking at a photo album. Funny, funny inside joke with my wife. For whatever reason, Apple Music kept showing me the edited version of this song. So every time we play, we just start giggling because all my life I had to.

And she's like, which version is this? But no, it just immediately takes me back to that time period. It's one of those songs that will, like you said, will live on a hundred years, 200 years from now. I love the fact that Pharrell is involved in that, not just on the production, but also the hook. I was watching, I finally watched his, his Lego autobiography or the movie that came out. And yeah,

Just seeing what he was going through, to me, that's a reoccurring emotion is that I love a reoccurring theme, I should say, is that I love how much their personal emotions filter into the music. And I think a lot of artists at times, as crazy as it sounds, maybe they're not necessarily artists or something, but they kind of use their music to escape from themselves. I love that you always get.

Even if it's, you know, little fragments of you get the DNA of the artist in that. And hearing what Pharrell was going through through the time, it makes sense why a song like that, even if the events weren't occurring with police brutality at the time, would still resonate. Right. Because of what the artists themselves were going through, the DNA that they put into the music. So it's a song that no matter what, immediately strikes up the emotions of the time.

Yeah, I think production wise too, it's a great song because there's the fabulous version of the song. And one, it just shows you it's fabulous, right? That did a version of the song. I'm pretty sure. It shows one shows you like the diversity of like how certain one artist will make a totally different song than someone else. Even if they have the same hook, like they'll, they'll just kind of go at a, at a different angle. But also what I love about,

almost to my same point about this fits the linear narrative of to Bimba butterfly. Yet it was a Pharrell produced song. It wanted, it doesn't sound totally Pharrell ish to me. And that's because Kendrick and this team added on, you hear Kamasi Washington playing the sacks over this beat that you don't hear on the fabulous version. And so they put their own touches on it. They took the aesthetics of,

of, and the kind of the color scheme, the palette of, of the sonic palette of to pimp a butterfly and kind of put it on layered in on top of this Pharrell beat so that it does sound seamless. When you get to all right, it doesn't sound like this, this out of sync, out of whack Pharrell beat. That's just kind of placed on the album. Cause it's a hit song. No, they took the time to make sure it fit the sonic landscape of the album. It would never take you out of the moment of the album and the experience, the linear experience of the album. So yeah,

Yeah. For so many reasons, this is a great, great pick green. You got, you got two back to back. So your pick now. I love that point. I love y'all bringing up Pharrell on that. And my next, so I did collaborative. I got hit song. Now I'm going to go with one of my personal picks.

and it's going to be Do Better by Ab-Soul. I absolutely, absolutely love this song. It's just, it, it just, it...

You could tell that like he's at a time where he literally wants to do better in all ways. Right. And then he's translating that to his to the song and to the life and the narrative of the song, as well as it making it feels like a hit song that isn't.

that's super personal. Like it feels like a ballad, like a rap ballad. You know what I'm saying? Cause ballads can be hits as well. And that's the version of hits. And that's why I think it's my favorite Abso song period. And so versus because it just connects and that course is just so good. Yeah. So good. So simple. And it resonates so well. And, uh,

And that's my favorite Abso project too. Other than now. Yeah. That's probably my favorite Abso project. Yeah. Yeah. The chorus reminds me of the thing that I'm mixing up my sources, but I heard was it, it was punch that told who's the artist in the, you interviewed him. I'm now blinking on it. Oh, daylight. Sorry. I'm here. I heard an antidote. Daylight played punch a song.

Punch said, learn how to do the mid range. We're going to keep going back to NBA, NBA references here, but learn the mid range. Like the implication was that it was a lot of like,

complexity in the lyrics and that maybe you know on first listen it's not going to translate to it'll translate to us because we love this kind of that kind of stuff but maybe not to to everyone and so this to this chorus specifically or even a lot of the bars are not as complex for abseil in this song but this to me is a perfect mid-range song for abseil and it's not surprising that it's also one of his more popular ones i think it was it was the single right um and so

That to me, again, speaks to this team mentality, this mentorship, this freedom of, yeah, of course, I'm going to be impressed with your lyricism, but let me try to get something else out of you. Let's try to widen the appeal a little bit. Let's work on this area of the court, so to speak, and let's broaden your range so that when you do the lyrical miracle stuff,

You're going to have an audience. You're going to bring a new audience to that too. So I think that this to me is a great pick because of it does show, for me, it does show that kind of mid range that a punch that can, can bring out. It also has depth though. Like I think it's a second verse where he's like shade stuck to my face hoodie glued to my head. Yeah. Trying to hide to the, from the world who made me who I am. I think that is just,

so deep to say that to think about that because you can talk about the shades from like hiding yourself from celebrity and and praise and all all these things but also hiding yourself from uh the fact that you know because he he wears shades for actual reason so that idea as well as him talking about these people like you said who know who i am no i'm a lyricist

They know that I'm going to give you this. And it's like, I'm, I'm hiding from that version of myself. And even in this song, it's like, I'm trying to do better, but I don't want to like completely alienate these people who made me who I am, but I want to do better. I want to be in a different level. And so it's tackling the idea of like getting more success. Does that make me lose the true me as well? And I think that's, I think it's a beautiful concept, especially for him where he's at. When you think of the, the,

TDA team and everything. It's also a thing where it's like, you can hide your vulnerability in wordplay, but can you wear it on your sleeve? You know? And so when I hear shade that, that the line that you just quoted right after he says, deep rest, can't even get out of bed to bless, to be so stressed, you know, that's, that has some wordplay as some rhyme schemes, of course, but like, we feel that everyone's feeling that on first listen, it doesn't take you,

time to unpack what he's saying. And I think there's a vulnerability there in the mid range, so to speak that yeah, it does require you to be, to go out on a limb where you can,

hide the vulnerability within the wordplay. And so you feel maybe a little more comfortable expressing yourself, but not fully showing your heart on your sleeve. So yeah, great pick. Curtis, have you had anything to add or it's your next pick? Yeah, I think King Rankin relates to this is that sometimes things happen in life where you don't have the energy to make them sound cute.

You don't have the energy to get cute about them. You know, you're talking about things that are that have affected him physically that occurred that he's talking about for the rest of his life. Yeah, there's a million ways to put this. And this is it's not like he has to try to color these in creative ways. It's just he they all are creative beings. Right. This is what they do. But I do think that sometimes life has a really humbling way of just being like,

If I was on the receiving end of this and you were writing a song for me, how would I how would I want you to say it to me so that it resonates? And I feel like he does such a masterful job on that. But Souls always kind of kind of did that. Even as a song that it's not one of my deep cuts, but there's a song called Rush and is a very simplified approach that most folks are not used to from hearing. But it was it was such a local thing.

A song with such a local hit and buzz. But yeah, I think life sometimes kicks your ass so much to the point where it's like, just say it for what it is. Right, right. So. Beautiful. All right. You got your next pick? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what? Let me actually go with one of my personal favorites on this one. Actually, yeah.

Let me go to, no, let me go with the deep cut. Let me go with the deep cut. This is going to be just as probably just as heavy. Uh, Ab Soul's A Rebellion featuring the late great Lori Jo. Not only to have the opportunity to produce this record, but I think the more that I understood where Ab Soul was at as a human, as an artist,

The untimely demise of the loss of a Laurie Joe, who was a good friend of mine as well. I made that particular beat the same day as my grandfather's funeral. And so I came home with the intent of literally allowing emotion to flow.

changed the decision making on that production. Everything from the souls of the sample that I chose to the drums, to the bass line, to all that stuff. And I had no idea it would land as a song that is like a fan favorite of souls. But that song to me immediately when I hear it, I think about that day and think about a Lori. I think about all the stuff that my guy, Ab Solas, endorsed. So in terms of just a deep cut,

A Rebellion, which is off of Control System, which I believe turned 10 this year. So yeah, that's a heavy, heavy one. That is just a lot of emotions. And also too, I don't think that I've heard Abso as an artist

He levitated above rapper on that one for me. It was just a matter of, I'm going to say something a certain way that no matter what your preference is in genre, does not matter if you are a human being capable of emotions, you'll understand what happens when you get to this level. Yeah, I'm interested. So

What's the, is there a conversation? So you make this piece of music that's meaningful to you and has, you know, this emotional resonance with you came from this specific place. When you hand that over to him, is there a conversation about it or is it just all in the music? And he just comes back feeling matching that without a conversation. We, to this day have never had that conversation. I heard this song when everybody else heard the song. I sent him the,

He was at that point in time looking for instrumentals. And at that time, I was consistently sending stuff over. And I just so happened to have a batch of beats. And this is one that I just I throw in there because it meant something to me. But a lot of times when I'm making music, that means something so near and dear to me. I feel like the rest of the world doesn't always get it. So I don't always share that particular type of music. But this is one where I say, you know what? I just feel like sonically it might fit an idea better.

And then when the actual project dropped, seeing that Lori was on it and this is after she had passed away, I never brought it up. It was just something I felt like, you know, when it's on that kind of a spiritual level,

You just know, you don't have to have the conversation about at least not yet to know what that is. So it, when I tell that story so that those who are aspiring artists and producers realize, you know, soul attracts soul. And I don't mean that as a, just in general, in that when you put your, your heart and your decision-making into whatever you're going through into that music,

it'll find the right place to go to. And I just so happen to be lucky enough for that to find Abso at that place in expression, but then also to be able to work with a supremely, supremely talented artist in the Lower Joe. Man, that's beautiful. I mean, that's God. It speaks to exactly why I love music, man. It's like you guys are communicating without talking. It was all felt. I mean, I'm looking at the lyrics now and like, man, I mean, that's just amazing.

Yeah, sometimes you don't need to have the words. You don't need to have the conversation. It's all right there in the music. And that's such a testament to exactly why I love music and why it should exist, why it needs to exist exactly for that kind of stuff. I always will.

Yeah. Okay. So I got only question. I got it. Why? I want to ask. So this one day, every time you get on my beast, he started questioning. He has questions for God. You bring it out. He knows I'm a God fair man. So I wonder if he does that, like, you know, so we can have those conversations, but no, shout out to him. Yeah. All right. Well, this is perfect layup for me for my next pick then, because I'm going to go deep cut. I'm going to go Kendrick Lamar faith.

This song off of the Kendrick Lamar EP, which is the EP that he released on December 31st, 2009. The first project that he put out, not as K-Duck, but as Kendrick Lamar, kind of announcing himself as an artist. And I love this project for so many reasons because...

One, and I think Faith does this really well, is it shows you him beyond a mixtape rapper. This is where I feel like you really start to feel and hear Kendrick Lamar as a storyteller, as a lyricist, someone that is working with concepts, that has a theme for a song and is able to tell a beautiful story. Faith is, again, probably the best example off of this project. It's a song with three verses.

Each of them, and it really foreshadows so much of his career because each of them deals with finding faith and then losing faith when something terrible happens in your life. And so the way that he does this across the entire song and the way he sets it all up and resolves it is so beautiful. So verse one is him relaying his being bored in Sunday service and

And then talking to God directly saying, what's my purpose? And he's surprised that God talks to actually responds to him. And so he gets really enthusiastic. He's full of faith. He's reading the Bible and he's spreading the word to strangers. How great, you know, Jesus is Lord and savior. Yet the final line, he says, felt like it felt like I'm free from all my sins. When the service was over, walked out the church, then it got a call that my homie was murdered, then lost all my faith again.

And you just feel there's this contrast of excitement of feeling spiritually like excited and then just you feel it getting sucked out of him.

Uh, then verse two, he, he, so that's a first person account. Verse two is a, him telling a story about a woman for a mother of four, raising four children on her own, trying to survive, try to work, try to be a good person and not given to the temptations of doing scams.

and really trying to live this moral life while struggling so hard with raising a family on our own. And again, a final line, look to the heavens and asked him to make a better way. Then got a letter in the mail, lost all her section eight, then lost her faith again. And so again, it's just like build up to just sucking the air, sucking that kind of the faith, the spirit from this, this particular woman. And then man,

guys got everyone listening to this needs to go and hear this punch verse so punch is the president of top dog um and he gets on the track for the third verse and i was i did a little research and he he was telling told a story of like how he got on the song it just so happened that while kendrick was working on this song one of his relatives passed away and he kind of alludes to the fact that maybe he was murdered and

And so he's having a real life test of faith as Kendrick is working on this song. And so he asked Kendrick if he can get on the song and he just delivers this really heartfelt, it's full of lyrical wordplay. It's really great, like just really, really great writing. But again, it has this undercurrent of like, I'm going through this hardship and it's interesting because it's a first person account.

of exactly what Kendrick is talking about in real time. We're hearing it in real time as he's feeling these emotions, this test of faith. Um, there's some great wordplay. He quotes actually quotes, um,

Jay-Z on the song Lucifer, where Jay-Z on the third verse of Lucifer off the Black Album says, I got dreams of holding a nine milla to Bob's killer, asking him why as my eyes fill up. Punch opens his verse saying, I got dreams of holding a nine milla to Ray's killer, asking him why as my eyes fill up. And you go back to Lucifer,

That song is about exactly the same scenario where one of Jay-Z's, I forgot who exactly, someone close to him was killed and Jay-Z's contemplating, do I get revenge or do I hold my faith? Do I, you know, and, and,

So him to have that callback, there's the layer, the subtext of him quoting Lucifer is not a random quote. It actually has, it brings context and depth to the verse and to the song. And then again, we get Punch's final line.

Where he says shadow box in my conscious till my faith start responding. And if I get no answer, just know I tried. I should have never looked into his son's eyes. Rashawn Boyce says the name of the man that was, that was killed. And so, man, talk about a powerful, a powerful verse. And then.

Kendrick comes in with the final verse and kind of does what he does so well. This is like an album, one album and one song because Kendrick comes in and kind of ties a bow on, on all of it. It's like, okay, you got my account. You got this woman's account. You got punches real life account. And now here's where I give you the message. Here's like, what is this song about? Let me tell you. And so the first line, he says, this is for my people that stress in whatever times is hard. You know,

Your mind slipping, wondering, is there really a God knowing you shouldn't think that way and trying to freeze your brain. But whenever there's pain, that feeling forever remains. And so again, he's directly addressing, he's universalizing this theme that probably all of us has felt. If you, if you're a person of faith, these times of being tested and obviously he's speaking to specifically to his community and he's

So again, the final lines of the song become, but what do I, but what, but what I do know is that he's real and he lives forever. So the next time you feel like your world's about to end, I hope you study because he's testing your faith again. And so it's just like, man, as someone is who has deeply throughout his entire career, one thought about how he, he can help his people directly through his music.

uh how to relay themes and morals through his music this is a great testament of that but also not exempting himself from those same struggles i think of a song like xxx uh off of damn where he's he gets the call from his friend whose whose son was just killed over a debt and kendrick's like man that would test my fate i would go you know i would shoot the blard put you know and and so it's like

He's been battling his faith every album, it seems like. And to hear all the precursor of this, not only thematically, but as Kendrick as a storyteller,

This song has everything. I feel like it's such a precursor and foreshadowing exactly who the artist Kendrick would become and just never really leaving these thematic areas and his trying to overcome his own issues, but also using his own battle to help others battle too. So I don't know if you guys are familiar with this song, but I think it's the one. I wasn't super familiar with the song, actually.

Yeah, I don't hear it get talked about enough. It's just why I went on so long. Thanks for indulging me there. But if you listen to one song on my list, listen to this one because it's really great. It reminds me of This Can't Be Life.

Jay-Z, Beanie Siegel, and Scarface. When Scarface comes on the third verse and is talking about something that happened to him in this moment, because they're all talking about their struggles with people they lost. And then Starface comes and talks about his best friend right there. He goes, when I walk into the studio to do this with Jig, I got a phone call from one of my nigg. Said he just lost his baby boy. And I'm like, when you're hearing it, you're like, oh,

I was listening to a song and now this person is telling me his real life. So I really want to listen to the song to feel, because it seems like the same feeling that you get from it. Yeah. I was going to also mention, man, shout out to BJ, the Chicago kid. I think that there's so many amazing collaborations that happened during this era with him and TDE artists. I listen for these songs and I feel like,

You know, there's a lot of fans who will pick the ones that are the obvious ones. To me, these are like soulful. These are Sunday, Sunday soulful for me. Like when you when you hear these on a project, you know that they are

You're going to have to sit with this one in a different way. Right. It's not just a one to listen experience. This is one of those where it's like I have to really sit and I get to sit and absorb this one. And I think that that's something that, you know, especially when you start going by the numbers of all the CD albums that I've done so well, it's encouraging to hear that.

uh, that they all have at least one or two of those that are sitting towards the end of the playlist that are just really heavy. And, uh, you gotta have to really, really sit through them to really get the emotion of what's being written. Yeah. It's like the, the analogy that you use a lot is, uh, is that the vitamin in the brownie is how you say, right? Every artist on TDE is, has the vitamin in the brownie. They, they've found that balance so well. Um, they've, they've even, I think if even like schoolboys, uh,

uh blue lips you know which showed incredible growth as an artist his most vulnerable record um and schoolboy had it's not like he was not ever vulnerable but we never really thought about him as that uh that that artist but then he comes with blue lips and it changes our perspective it shows how rappers can age um which i think is really important is like these these are these rappers that have been along around a long time like yeah how do you

How do you, how are you, how do you just not try to be young? How do you mature as an artist? I mean, we have so many great examples of, of people doing that now. And a lot of them are, are TDE artists. So, um, okay. So I'm going to go with my, I got two back-to-back picks, so I'm going to lighten the mood a little bit. Well, actually maybe not really. Um, I'm going to go denial as a river as one of my free choices by Dochi. Okay.

Remember old dude from 2019 Nice clean nigga did me dirtier than laundry Took a scroll through his IG Just to get a DM from his wife You know, I could have picked a lot of songs I could have picked Catfish off this record But Denial of the River is like

I mean, one as a song is just great. There's no hook. It's, it's the hit song off of, uh, off alligator bites and there's no hook, which I love, you know, like it's just pure storytelling, pure lyrical, like crystal clear. I can follow the story. It's funny. It's got wordplay. It's tragic. It's like, it has this great chemistry of like,

Sounds fun, but if you actually listen to what's going on, it's not very fun at all. And so it has that really great dichotomy. I love...

It showcases so much. It's maybe the one song off of maybe this and Boom Bap that really showcases off so much of what we love about Doji. Her versatility, her theatrical intuition, and being able to do multiple voices, able to sing and rap. It also showcases her as a student of hip-hop, rapping over this 90s-sounding beat.

calling directly kind of quoting, quoting, quote unquote, Dougie fresh with the, the breathing exercise at the end and how that ties into like the theatrics of her seeing a therapist or talking to this therapist or this, this teacher. And so I think out of all the songs that could kind of showcase her,

All the things that we love about Dochi. Denial is a River is just an incredible example. And again, it's a hit song, which is just crazy. Super hit song. Especially this day and age. Green, I know this was on your short list. So what do you love about this song? Yeah, you stole that. Sorry. You stole that. I'm going to remember that. But Denial is a River is the same reason you like it. It's like the Fresh Prince song.

Anthem, like the theme song, rather. It's like the theme song in the sense that it's giving you the story of who this character is and in the world that they created. And she did that

for her album and that's her hit song. And I think that's why people resonated with it because it was so easy to get. Cause the story was in the word. It's just here. This is it. This is the story. And it gave, and it gave you that feeling of like old school vibes while feeling modern. You know what I'm saying? So, and that's why I, cause it's, it's so hard to do that. That's the number one thing. It's just, I couldn't right now make a old school story that,

And it work in that way. Like it takes so much to make that work, but it takes the personality. It takes the image. It takes the iconography. It takes the story that you have to be able to relate to people in this modern way with such an old sound. So that's why I thought it was. And it feels organic too. It feels so natural. It doesn't feel like she's trying all that hard. It didn't feel like she's, I'm going to try to make this nineties throwback. It was, it just feels like so fluid out of her personality, you know?

Curtis, I'm assuming you like this song. Yeah. Yeah. And for someone who just like, like all of us here who, you know, we're familiar with the very early ages are very, very early stages of TDE. I think this also speaks to the evolution of TDE as a label as well. Right. Embracing an artist,

That is on social media, embracing an artist that did have a YouTube presence. These are things that you didn't you didn't traditionally see. Right. The artists, they are kind of on a need to know basis. When I have a project, I'll, you know, I'll appear not not not with the nonsense. I'll appear as I should. And you guys will know what you need to know. But they've been very kind of private about.

the way that they move. And I think that's been part of a huge part of their success is, um, being able to not have folks who are going off the rails. But, uh, don't she is such an interesting one because even with the visual on that, I think that was, that was probably one of the, um,

one of the illest music video rollouts. Yeah, yeah. The fact that we got these small little snippets where Zach Fox is being featured into it, where all these different folks who are on social media, these are things that you didn't normally see from TV artists. It was encouraging to see that. And so I think it just shows how

willing they are with embracing the time period we're in, but also not buckling so much that they lose who they are because Dolce in every sense of the word is a TDE traditional artist. It's just that of this age right now. So when I listen to the Niles River, I'm just, I'm encouraged by hearing storytelling. I'm encouraged by hearing something that

Cuts through all the noise. Like it's something I told punch. I said, you guys have mastered having artists that go right to the border of performative. And it never feels like you're, Oh, this is my, this is my club song. Right. 40. So it's never that, even when it's emotional, it's not that. And in this, this kind of story that she tells, whereas a lot of crazy things that are happening, her tonality is,

It's very conversational, very calm, very well aware of her own emotions and shortcomings. And I think that's once again back to the brand of authenticity they've always had.

Yeah. That speaks to more broadly about Alligator Bites. It's like, Dochi had hit records before that mixtape, before that project. You listen to Alligator Bites and it's like, there is not one song on there that is sounding like it's trying to be a hit song. There's no what it is, there's no persuasive. She knows how to write a hit song. I feel like we all know her now. I certainly feel like I know her now more as an artist.

with a full project. I can see her vision more where before with just the singles, it was kind of hard to tell where she was trying to go. And now we just realized, like she said on boom, bab, she's everything. It wouldn't surprise me if her next, her next album is like an Afro beats album or so, you know, she can go literally any direction she wants. Yeah. She has that talent. And I think,

Denial is a River is great because it is a hit song again, but by no means is trying to be one. Yeah, trying to be a hit song by making a 90s throwback song would be a crazy idea to any label. So it couldn't have been trying to be a hit song. Like if you brought that to the label, like here, here's my single, they will look at you like you're crazy. They may have. I think, you know what I have to say is that I think that TD always has an edge on

to whatever they are making. It's just something about it feels cutting edge or edgy. Like something about any of the hit songs, even win, win, win something about it feels like, Oh, this doesn't feel regular. Like some, you know, it's, it's like beyond authenticity. Like some, it feels like, Oh, this is fresh take on this concept, you know? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. All right. So Curtis, your pick,

yeah i'm gonna use one of my open picks right now and uh it's gonna be kendrick lamar cut you off to grow closer all right you thirsty you poo-poo uh i'm trying to learn something new i'm trying to find myself i'm searching deep for kendrick you beautiful you t you turn down i remember when that song dropped and uh seeing

The conversation pickup just around the intro was hilarious. He calls out Ali. Ali, the first person on Twitter, right? And so, of course, Twitter is going to be the first place people are. But I remember seeing that song literally go viral when it came out. I was just a fan of it because, one, the production is one of my mentors, Tay Beast, just phenomenal, phenomenal producer all the way around. But hearing this kind of like early morning thing,

The first thoughts that I'm jotting down in a journal type of energy that's on it is what I love. He says, I'm trying to learn something new. I'm trying to find myself. I'm searching deep for Kendrick Lamar. I read about Napoleon Hill and try to know God. They say he the key to my blessings. And if I speak the good into existence, then instant my dreams will unlock money flow like water. I just wait at the dock. And by the way, I'm a start finding more light to shed like a small garage in your backyard. That's so mid range.

To be able to just kind of get that off, but it's so conversational. I love the concept of it too, of the more that you kind of rise in life, the more that you got to cut off people that are not aligned with where you're trying to go. And he did it in such a way that it was really relatable to a lot of things I had going on where just putting...

And I guess that was kind of the error, too, because currency also, I feel like, was doing a good job of that, of putting conversations to things that otherwise would be really casual. But putting a whole song around it was something that was needed. I think that TD at the time was pushing a brand of hashtag human music. And this felt so human, you know, because everybody has energy they'd like to cut out, especially as they're working on themselves. So he tells these three different storylines of people that

You know, I had to get cut off. Yeah. But it's a song that once again, as you talked about, all right, immediately you hear the first few seconds and you go right back to that time. Same thing with this song for me. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's like it's the same structure ish as faith, too. He starts every every verse with I want to learn something new and then kind of goes through a different story and a different person and and.

kind of showcasing, yeah, I wanted, I'm trying to evolve while these people are maybe not at this moment in their life. And it reminded, it actually reminded me as I returned to it, it reminded me of ain't got a lie to kick it off a tip of a butterfly. It reminds me of rich spirit off of Mr. Morale and him shooing away the fakes and the snakes on silent Hill. And,

It speaks to Kendrick's like, yeah, it's his circle. His circle seems very tight. You know, even as he feels like as he's gotten bigger, his circle is even has become even tighter over time. And again, it's like all here in what overly dedicated 2010, I think. Right. Or 2011. Beautiful pick green. Got anything to add or you want to just move on to your next pick?

I can move on to the next pick because I feel like you guys said exactly what I feel about that song. But it's my pick right now or that was yours? We're reversed right now. Oh, okay. So you have your final two picks right now. I want to go with No More Hiding by SZA because I want to get SZA on here. Ew.

And that's, I liked SZA before. I liked her since she was doing like blog stuff. I love SZA now. And I have to be honest with that. Like I'm talking about, like I listened to her all the time. She is my Sade now. Like that's where she's at. And for me,

And SOS and the deluxe did that for me. And the first track off the deluxe made me. And the reason why is because there's such a maturity in her as a woman, as a person and her music all connecting at the same time. Cause I feel like our music was always mature. It was always very different and felt like a mature perspective on how to write music and R and B and soul. Right. But there's no more hiding track.

it's almost like her responding to who she was on control. Like this woman that's like, I got your man on the weekend. I'm out here. It doesn't matter. All that type of vibe. It's like, I'm free. You know what I'm saying? In that space. And now she's like, you know what? No more hiding. I'm not going to hide myself from wanting somebody and actually wanting to have love. This is what I actually need right now. And I think that's

That's how she opens this album. And I think that's the depth of that and the maturity of that is so great. And then musically, it's just my vibe. It's just, it's just my vibe. So are you an SOS over control person? 3000%. Oh, really? Wow. Okay. 3000%. I've never met one of you in real life. Yeah. Control to me feels like I said, content wise to me just feels, it's not something that I'm resonating with like actual lyrics. Yeah.

Musically, the song she has with Travis, the opening track that she has, the intro, musically at the time, I liked it. But when I hear it now, it does not resonate at all. At all with me. Whereas SOS, I'm going to be 62 being like, no more hiding, playing it while I'm making eggs. You know what I'm saying? SOS is, to me, leaps and bounds beyond control. Yeah.

Some people like Frank Ocean, certain Frank Ocean albums, I think make no damn sense either. Well, you want to roll right into your last pick then? Last pick for me. Well, I might have to break some rules. Okay. It doesn't matter. It's all arbitrary anyways. It's always the Celtic fans want to break rules. Yeah, I got to break some rules.

I want to go away. Deflate the ball a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You got to. You got to. Seven championships. You got to do something. But anyways. Six. Kendrick Lamar, rigor mortis. And the reason why I want to, I have to put that, I was going to do There He Go by Schoolboy Q. But I'm going to go rigor mortis just because of

Every rapper feels like they can make a rigor mortis, but none of them actually make it. And that's the difference between rigor mortis and Eminem's rap god or where it's like, I want to show you the optimum level of my capability. Very few rappers actually do that. And that takes actual practice.

more than anything. Like, I'm going to sit here and actually do this so people can see me in this way. And rigor mortis was when I felt, when I was like, okay, I'll just Kendrick. Oh, I see why they talk about that Kendrick guy that way. I see. I get it because it's like, it's not just him coming from content and him be able to rap and get a few bars off. It's like, if he needs to do this shit that y'all niggas do, he's going to do it at that level. And I think you need that record to be that person. Like he has proof.

That's number one reason why I put that as a deep cut. Yeah. Hard to argue. That's one of my favorite Kendrick songs ever. Some of his best rapping ever. And very early on. Curtis...

You have anything on rigor mortis? You want to go into your next pick, your final pick? Definitely. Well, one quick thing. Shout out to my dog, Ichabod Don on the production. It's one thing to experience that song as is, but if you ever get a chance to listen to the instrumental, there is nothing about that instrumental that makes any sense from a creator standpoint. When you listen back to where the 808s land, it is out of here. When you see

uh i've seen many of b showcases i've shared with my guy itchy bond on or will it be and he'll paint the sounds in real time it's just a phenomenal production and yeah kendrick absolutely blacked out on that so even the sample is like what you're not just yeah then what is the whole way through this is what we're doing yeah right i so my last open pick and this wasn't easy at all uh but

Don't she stressed? I had to return to this. I'm so curious. I love this song, but it's not an obvious one. So yeah, I'm curious. For me, it was because of how it found me in that I heard the song. I think my wife was playing it.

I heard the song circulating and I was just like, who is this? I wasn't familiar with Dochi at this point in time. Then I saw the colors performance and I was like, yo, like cool. 2022. 2022. Yeah. Then seeing inevitably that this is a TDE artist, I was like, oh God, of course it makes complete sense. I always point more so sonically to this song in that

the harmonies that are going on in the chorus. And she's doing a, I'm like, that's why when I hear anybody, you know, kind of put out those, you know, industry plant and kind of things like that. I'm like, you guys don't recognize that this has been a strong songwriting pin from day one. Day one.

And when I hear this song, I'm listening to somebody that it's just only a matter of time. But I love how organically this song found me. It wasn't like you said earlier, where there were certain, you know, rock or rock bands or punk band labels.

TDE didn't present this to me. It's organic success and quality found its way to me. And then I found out, oh, this is a TDE artist. Of course. So I think that's why I put that there. It was either between that or Isaiah Rashad's I shot you down, but that's the one for me. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, don't, she's catalog before alligator bites is deep and singles, just singles, but, and she has EP too, but it's like, she's been around, like she had a hit song on, on YouTube five years ago. That's just now getting the, you know, it's due time and anxiety, but she's been writing hits for like, for, you know, over five years now. So yeah, the industry plan stuff, we won't take, we won't taint this podcast with that talk, but at all.

It's like, yeah, you're just proving anyone that says that I'm like, okay, you just outed yourself. Yeah. The validation of your, yeah. That's it. Or you just don't know what you're talking about. Like that clearly. All right. So my final pick, let's bring it back to SZA. I guess the biggest artist on TDE now, right. Is SZA. So let's end with SZA. I'm going with,

One of my favorite songs. I'm a control guy, Green. I like SOS, don't get me wrong, but Control, I think that's a perfect album. But I'm going to go with Broken Clocks. One of my favorite SZA songs, Four Times Platinum. So this is my hit song. Really cool production, right? So I didn't know this until prepping for this, but

Produced by Thank God for Cody. And it samples a song called West by River to River to Beer and Daniel Caesar from 2016. But that song West samples R.O.S. by Mac Miller off of Good A.M. Yeah, you got your stained glass. That song R.O.S. was produced by DJ Dahi.

who is one of these Soundwave, Tabeast, these kind of in-house producers, so to speak, at TDE. So I thought that kind of sample story is really interesting, going from Dahee's Mac Miller song to this Daniel Caesar song back to this SZA song all within three years of each other, two years of each other. Anyways, but it's a great, great beat. Yeah, beautiful, actually.

Really great beat. It showcases everything I love about SZA, which is this jazz-like improvisation in the verses where it's like you can just feel, you hear that she kind of goes in and just improvs a lot of her stuff. And I love that you can feel that about it. It's so loose and free, like a jazz player playing a saxophone, just up and down and quick and then...

She'll contrast it with this slow, beautiful melodic chorus. There's like three courses on this song, but, uh, the main one with all I got is these broken clocks. I ain't got no time just burning daylight. Um, just a beautiful sentiment. I think the song is about, um, just being busy working two jobs and not really having time for love. Uh,

And realizing this guy was in love with me, but I just was kind of like putting them off. I'm not like not in this place in my life where I can like develop a real relationship. But then does this kind of Frank Ocean thing where she says, still love, it's still love, nothing but love for you. So there's no animosity there. It's just, I'm in this certain time of my life and it's just like, it's not in the cards right now, but I still love you. It's a very Frank Ocean kind of sentiment that I love. And I could have, I could have plucked a bunch of songs off control.

But this one I've always had, always gravitated towards for some reason. Broken Clocks. Just beautiful. Are you guys a fan of this song at all? Very much. It's probably one of my favorites on there because it feels more personal and real. So I always enjoyed that one.

And it's another hit song that's not a hit. It doesn't sound like a hit hooky record. Even as big as SZA has gotten over the past decade,

she doesn't, I mean, kill bill is kind of like a hit song, but not really because it does have a sweeping kind of grand chorus. That's like the only song from SZA who is like one of the biggest artists in the world. Like she doesn't do your traditional poppy hooks for how big she is as an artist. Like she, her songwriting has stayed authentic to her. She has a very unique sound, very unique approach to songwriting. Um,

And it's only getting better. So I'm, I'm excited. I'm very excited to see where her career continues to go. Cause there's only two albums in, um, are we, is that all? I know it's crazy. It's like crazy. And even like the success of SOS, you know, there was some drama leaving it up to that. And like, in terms of like when it was going to be released, blah, blah, blah. But it's like in retrospect, um,

to see the numbers that it divine timing, whatever it was released, they did it right. Because I mean, Jesus Christ, it's like one of the best selling records ever now. So, um, shots out to TD. Do we have any, is that all the picks or do you have one more Curtis?

I think that's it. That's it. Okay. I got more backups. Yeah. That's pretty much what I got. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I mean, was there anything you guys wanted to say about TDE before he signed off? Um, I mean, I feel like we covered a lot. Curtis, do you have any go-to like TDE personal stories that, that stick out to you being around them in the early days or anything, or even now? I mean, none that I haven't told a hundred times on my own channel. Right. But, uh, I guess, uh,

You know, if anything, I'm grateful to have been able to experience what those early years look like, because you always read about it in books. When you see folks who have had massive success, you read their autobiographies and you feel like there's a lot of gaps that are there that never get filled. I'm one of those people that.

You know, with the events of last year, I'm looking at all of the stuff that is going on and I'm like, they try. I keep telling myself they train for this. They were prepared for this. Every part of this was planned from the beginning to at least to have a solid foundation. But, you know, one thing I can always say is that they have been never afraid of the hard work, no matter what's going on in a personal life. And they've been very protective of one another.

And so, you know, to see how much to this day, because you see how many labels and how many folks come together and they can't keep it together. And then all of a sudden we get messy stories on podcasts, things that I wish sometimes I didn't know about my favorite artists and labels. I really respect how much they have kept whatever, because, you know, it's just natural process, whatever issues in house. And they continue to make way for newer artists everywhere.

To do what they do. But that's that's a formula that at some point in time, the same way we talk about Motown, we have to talk about TDE because they keep doing it and they're doing it. So, yeah, if anything, I'm grateful to have been able to work with those gentlemen and get a glimpse on what it's like to build such a powerhouse because it was it was that in the making from day one.

Yeah, if they do it for another 10 years, they're going to have to come back with Motown because Motown probably had a 25, 30 year run. And it's like, I feel like TD's what, at 17 or something like that? Yeah, about 20 next year, right? Is it?

established in 2006 i don't think they started releasing music for a couple years after that but yeah we're more or less 20 and i think one thing one thing is not that doesn't get talked about enough i think is like the way that pg lang and kendrick has left technically left the label yet their relationship seems as strong as ever to to the to the point where

on your podcast you did with punch recently where he flew from Australia to LA to listen to euphoria before it came out. Like that to me was just like, Oh, these guys are like brothers. Like this is like, this is beyond, you know, business relationship, but to see how they've coexisted, it didn't seem like there's any bad blood at all with Kendrick branching out. Obviously it's, it's, it's obvious why Kendrick would want to do that and expanding his own creative palette, doing movies and et cetera. But like,

How many times have we seen that go wrong? Especially on the West Coast. How many times have we seen it go right? I think that's a better question. I don't think I've seen that gone right. Yeah. And to work this closely to where they're now co-headlining a tour, a stadium tour together, that to me speaks to what we've been talking about this whole podcast is that

family like core the authentic core out of the heart of everything just like so inspiring especially these days where like your incentive the incentive is not always there to do that and they kind of remain this like shining example of like how to do things correctly not perfect but like

remaining authentic throughout it all has been beautiful to witness. And we're just going to keep witnessing it. It feels like for the next couple of decades. So yeah. Thank you guys both for, for joining the podcast. You guys got, why don't you guys plug, plug your stuff. King, you want to go first plug, which can, Oh yeah. That's why I'm go by green. You know what I'm saying? But yeah,

If you were talking to me, just Rap Latte. Check out Rap Latte on YouTube. Me and Toure. We like to talk hip hop, run our mouth about whatever and break down the song. And have Curtis on as much as possible. Yeah, yeah. Curtis, what do you want to plug?

Curtis King TV, YouTube, that punch interview we keep referring to is definitely there on the front page. But Curtis King TV, man, I absolutely appreciate you having both of us on because, you know, big fan, big fan of what you do. I love all of your breakdowns. And so when you reached out, it was an honor. So I'm grateful to be here, man. Appreciate it, guys. We'll talk. We'll have to do this again soon.