Unreleased MF DOOM Interview (Exclusive Premiere)
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Welcome everyone to a special episode of Dissect, I'm your host Cole Kushner. As you might know, the latest season of Dissect focused on the late MF Doom, breaking down every line of 12 of Doom's most beloved songs. You also might know that MF Doom's 2004 album, MFood, just celebrated its 20th anniversary, which was accompanied with an official re-release that includes new artwork, remixes, and a handful of unheard interview clips recorded shortly before Food's original release.

Well, today, I have the extreme privilege to premiere this interview in its entirety right here on the Dissect feed. It's over an hour long and spans Doom's entire career up until 2004. It's a must-listen for all Doom fans. A big thank you to Rhymesayers Records for this honor and opportunity, and so without any further ado, please enjoy the world premiere of this never-before-heard interview with the one and only MF Doom.

There they go, the clown and the two thugs.

This career-spanning interview with MF Doom was originally recorded for a special broadcast on November 13, 2004 on Rhymesayers Radio, hosted by Sadiq and Buck KAC on KFAI Community Radio in the Twin Cities.

This episode was anchored by an interview conducted by myself, Kevin Beecham, and being an avid fan since the days of ZevlovaX with KMD, my goal was to dig deep into understanding Doom's inspirations, philosophies, challenges, goals, and passions.

The show, titled FM Mood, broadcasted live on the air the Saturday before the release of the MFood album. And it took listeners on a trip to explore the beginnings before we even made music, leading into Zev Lovex and KMD, and how that evolved into MF Doom, leading us to the release of the MFood record, which hit stores 11-16-2004. But this interview also takes a glimpse into the future

Including some things that we did see happen and some that yet still remain to be seen. Let's get into it. Give me a voice test there. One, two, check, check. So basically we're going to try to go through your complete history as an artist so we can put together a whole like, you know,

I've been just listening to the radio back when the radio was playing stuff like Mr. Maddox from all the

over Washington Jr. Like, when those records first came out, like, Mardi Gras, Bob James, and whatnot, like, when they first came out, there was this, like, regular joint set. Like, how now, a new song would come out and they're doing a radio. So that's, I mean, those songs kind of evolved into, like, hip-hop classics as far as, like, the DJs go. I guess that would be considered my earliest hip-hop memory. But then hip-hop is something that, you know, was probably...

We're probably born with it. It's just that innate feeling when you just want to bang a beat out. It could be on a table, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, but that's, I think, my closest memory that I could put into a frame of reference like that. Any particular lyrical, any also musical influences that really made you want to get involved in it, you know, yourself after being a fan? Well, no doubt. Like, at that time, Curtis Blow had joined South. He was the dude that was rocking. What did you say your name was?

I see that it's not clear for you good buddies to clean out your ears. Listen very close while I pop on game, because my name's in the Hall of Fame. The K-U-R, the T-I-S, the first is the best, I must confess. The B-L-O and the W, I make you want to catch the Boogaloo Flu.

Right. So, like, we were going to, like,

play a few songs or a few artists production-wise and MC-wise who represent the biggest inspiration? Who are those babies highest credit score? Any other ones that you would think of that stood out to you? Yeah, no doubt. After a while, once times progressed and whatnot, of course, Stetsasonic was an old hip-hop band. They were doing things that were brand new. We like corpus mics. We ride ninja bikes. We operate six-max. We get a vibe.

Right.

You know, groups around that time that came out, Ultra Magnetic, of course, Kool Keith, Set G, Choice of Topics, they was flipping the, you know, monotone rhyme technique. A lot of different styles that they came with too. Ultra, that was real influential. This kind of showed us the, you know, different directions that it could go in. I'd say BDP, KRS as a soloist. Once BDP came around as a group, KRS as like the MC of the group.

So what's your problem? It seems you wanna be KRS2 From my point of view, backtrack, stop the attack Cause KRS1 means simply one KRS That's it, that's all solo, single, no more, no less

You know, it was real ill. At that time, there wasn't really no solo that was holding it down like that. Jam kind of with Marley, but it was different with KRF. That's like how Chuck came out with the whole P.E. time. This was right about when we was just about to come out with K&B joints in the earlier part of the 90s, 89, 90, you know what I mean? We started really finding ways to put records out and whatnot. But all them cats around that time was real influential. Lick time!

Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Other cat, Onyx, was a member of the group. But actually, when KMD first started out,

It was like a conglomeration of, like, hip-hop as far as, like, graffiti, breakdancing, you know, the music side of it, DJ environment. It was a whole, like, thing like that, like a little joint movement type of thing we had going on. But then, you know, as the music part started to kind of, like...

Right.

He definitely couldn't tell that he was brand new to it. Like when the album came out or something, he was into his thing for sure.

Yeah, that's good. That's good. You know what I'm saying? Hopefully, I'll inspire them to come back out. You know what I'm saying? But, yeah, so it was really like me and my brothers, the real, like, architects. Most people, like, you know, from that day, first heard you on, obviously, the Gas Face joint. So how'd that come about with Third Base and that whole thing? Because you were under their management, correct? The Riff? Yeah, no doubt. What happened was, he searched...

I knew him for a while. I must have met him at a talent show maybe in like, nah, 86, something like that. And, you know, he used to come out to the town where we was at and rock, you know what I mean? And, you know, we kind of looked at it like, yo, we're, it's fresh, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, we knew each other a lot of times from Far Rockwood. So what happened was he came back after a couple of years.

Talks to like '88, '89, I was like, "Yo, I got this group, you know what I'm saying? I'm working with this cat Pete Nice and, you know, we got this deal on Def Jam." And he's always known as the cat who found ways to put records out. He had a joint out on Idlers, I think, was the label. "Hey Girl" or "Hey Boy" or some shit. Some single he had out, but he had ghetto fame for that, so everybody knew he was putting records out. So we was like, "What?"

You know, a couple of months later, Joint came out, you know.

Of course, correct. The video was fun, you know what I'm saying? Real nostalgic hip-hop memories, you know what I mean? Next up, Don, a special appearance by KMD's Sev Loves. Gas face, can either be a smile or a smirk When a pair's a must to work with Don't tempt me, you're empty Fill her up as I'm talking coffee or cocoa Is you logo a no-go? KMD and third base is this ace in the hole I mean so, so make the gas face Oh shit

Oh, shit.

So did Dua let you come following that appearance? It was basically people heard you on there and then they got interested or how'd that come about? Well, actually, we were working on a deal prior to the release of Gas Face or that Cactus album. We was working on a deal somehow, you know, so there's new enough people. They had like a lot of inside people to where Dua was going to pop up anyway. I think the Gas Face joint kind of just helped it along a lot. It was Dante Walsh who was the A&R at the time on the Tommy Boy.

And the Daylion record just came out. "3 Feet High" and "Rising." And Dante had parts with that as far as A&R and the project or whatever, so he had a little fame. And at first, he was supposed to be on Tommy Boy, but then he left Tommy Boy for Elektra. And with it, he brought the roster that he was putting together.

At the time it was brand new, being leaders of the new school and in KMD. That was his little roster that he had. He was holding as a trump card. And when he, you know, he used that to really get on with Elektra and get that shit popping. And it worked like a charm. Y'all were the first group for that, Elektra D. R. Rado's group, right? Y'all were the first one, right? KMD? Oh, I'm not sure. I think you were the first Rado's.

That whole...

It just, it was a look back and see how it turned out. But yeah, so it was Dante who brought us to Elektra just before Gas Race came out. But once, you know, we was kind of like 85% done with the first album, Mr. Huss. Once Gas Race dropped and we got the deal and all that, whatnot. And we should have stuck the album real quick and put it out, you know?

Speaking of the album, I guess it's pretty popular because it was a nice concept album with the character Mr. Hood and how it was pieced together. And I really can't think of any detailed concept like before that where a character kind of mapped the whole album out. Even with Mr. Hood, it then even had the character of Bert even being a character throughout the album to keep it going. So what are the ideas around using the vocal sampling and using it in that way where you actually see what the characters come about? Where did that come from?

Well, actually, the first time I heard, I have to credit that to Late Night Radio, back listening to WHBI at the time, World's Famous Supreme Team Show. This is the World's Famous Supreme Team Show. Broadcasting live on WHBI 105.9 on your job. Everybody, listen. Listen.

Everybody.

They'll just be spinning on hip-hop like breaks, like Substitution and joints like that, or like Funky For You and the little ill breaks. But then what they would do is play vocal records like stand-up comedy records or other type of records that have vocals on them over it, you know what I'm saying, on the background. So you get the drums spinning back and forth, but then you get these little comedy skits going on.

The world famous Supreme Team show 10024. New York, New York. Well, as I stated, Richard Pryor, he's in the house tonight. And Richard Pryor, would you like to tell us if you can remember about what happened to you when you was a little boy down there in Illinois? I can remember when I was a kid back in Peoria, Illinois. I mean, no movie ever opened that I didn't sneak in and see.

And that's the first time I ever heard that, you know what I'm saying? So I got to give credit where credit is due. I kind of took that concept and just, you know, incorporated them to short little skits where we do our own beats.

He has some pretty intricate senses in the way they're spiced together. So is that pretty difficult to do?

Well, yeah, you know, it's funny. It's like a little formula tool. It's kind of like the less you do, the more it makes sense. Like, the less you try to do it, the more it does itself, kind of like. You know what I mean? So most of the time, I'm just a spectator. I'm just digging, playing different stuff, and I'll just hear something that says, oh, my God, how the hell, you know, I'll be just as shocked, and I'll just put it in place, you know what I'm saying? So it takes a bit of research as far as just, you know, recording a lot of different, um,

Vocal pieces that are rare. I don't go for, like, you know, stuff that you can find easily. It's got to be something bugged out, then it's the bugged out of the bugged out. My name is Mr. Hood. What is your name? I'm ZumbuffX from KMD. I am pleased to meet you. Oh, yeah, likewise. How you doing anyway? Perfectly well, thank you.

And you? Oh, I'm just chilling, you see. But I got one problem. I come in here to pawn this bracelet. See, because it's Robin for Nichols business ain't making it. What I need is a job. Where you work at? They hiring? Follow this avenue. Yeah. Turn right at the corner. Uh-huh. Go to the left when you reach the square. So out of all of that, it kind of like does itself once you have enough stuff. Just continue to play around with it and the story will tell itself.

So beyond that, how was the production, the actual music handled for the KMD albums? Was it you who started splitting it or how was that working? Yeah, the way we did it, well, yeah, we would just do beats. Like, we would do beats for fun. You know what I mean? I'd get my rack, do like four, eight beats in a row, according to that. And then the next week, I might not do them, but that'd be the week that he's in there rocking.

you know we just go back and forth like that so we had enough instrumentals and they kind of just formulate you know what we're gonna do with this beat come up with it like that whatever the music tell us to do really you know you're always dropping this new new material but even back then with kmd like every single had like a new bonus track or something new you know so you're always recording a lot of music that is something you just naturally just always feeling creative always creating new things well it's off and on you know sometimes i get my blackout periods but

Yeah, cool.

Alright, so moving into the second album, Black Bastards, what was the difference in making that album to Mr. Hood? I remember reading an article, I guess, in the source when Black Bastards was coming out and you were saying maybe the label was trying to put you in the bracket of the native tongue thing or whatever and promoting certain things from the album and that Black Bastards was more going back to what you were trying to do even before Mr. Hood. So what was the whole process like for going into making the second album? What was your mind state?

It was really like this to me, yo. The show on the wrong side.

I mean, the first album was cool, you know, real positive direction as far as, like, the messaging and whatnot. But, you know, everybody throws in changes, so we were going through a lot of changes at that time, adolescence, going from, I think I might have been 18 going to 19. We both had our first child, you know what I'm saying, during the in-between time, you know what I mean? So, a lot of things going on, you know, that we needed to report on, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And that's how we were approaching, like, yo, no hold barred, you know what I mean? What was up with the Parker Lewis diss? What made you want to do that in the song? Oh, yeah, that's funny, yo. I remember, like, I think it was in the source, they did, like, a little, like, spiral on it, talking about how he was rapping, like, Parker Lewis can't lose on the mic or something like that. That cat, you know, you know,

You know, to me, hip-hop is like, yo, it's like I'm its baby. Hip-hop is my mama, kind of like, you know what I mean? But yeah, it's still, it's like, don't be playing my mama close. You don't really know her like that, you know what I mean? So it's like, at the time, we was at a party, me and Killian's

96 and Broadway, Ed Lovell was having a birthday party. You know, kind of like a star-studded affair, you know, guest list kind of thing. You know, we was able to slide up in there. But you had like everybody in the team was there. Like everybody, everybody you could imagine. Poo Bar, everybody. You know what I'm saying? Nice and smooth. So we played at the bar. And you know, everybody's on stage at one point. And everybody starts rhyming like one at a time.

And this cat gets on the mic. I guess nowadays I would have took it different. I'm like, oh, hip-hop is really a new realm. You know, you got these active cats trying to do it. I said it kind of personal then, though. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, what? Don't even touch the mic. You know what I mean? You ain't allowed to. So this cat gets on the mic and does a little rhyme and whatnot. But the thing that really got me about it was that Kane had just ripped some dope shit. You know what I'm saying? He got a little, you know, he didn't get too much of a response from it.

Then this guy comes on there just from the fact that he's a TV celebrity, you know what I mean?

And his verse was wack. It was short. It was kind of wack. But, you know, nothing to really be a part of. The whole crowd was going crazy. And, you know, at the time his show was on, I was like, oh, that's fake, yo. So I had to just, I had to pull the file. You know what I mean? Just to clear the air on that one. You know what I'm saying? You know, but it's nothing personal. All right, cool. All right, this is one that was always in my head, like, since I heard that. So I wanted to get that out. So what happened to...

To be honest, why was he a part of Black Bastards? At that time, there was a lot of stuff going on. Like I say, it was a time when we were all coming into AIDS and being men and going in different directions in our lives. You know what I'm saying? And I guess he wasn't really ever really an MC. I kind of hired him to do the job. Right. And maybe he didn't have it in his heart to go the full length, obviously. So for the second album, when it was time to start the album...

It's just he wasn't as present as he needed to be to be part of it. So we just assumed, you know, okay, he don't want to do it no more. He ain't going to stop us from doing it. So we just went on without him, you know what I'm saying? And he went on in his direction. All right, cool. So of course we all know the album had never come out. So when did you first get word of the conflict with the artwork? And, you know, once you heard about it, what was the whole process between that and then the album getting dropped? Hmm.

It was like right after we finished the joint, as a matter of fact. You know what I mean? So I already went back to the essence through the accident. But we had finished like 75%, 80% of the album anyway. But I still had to finish it. So after that happened, it was after the accident. I finished the album, did the video. We just masked the album maybe the week before. And then we get a call to...

to come into the, you know, they wanted to come and have a meeting in the office the next morning. But they already sent all the money, all the work is done, everything was ready for packaging and ready to go. And then they hit it to death. Like, for some reason, they, the, what was the exact, it was funny how he worded it.

There's more along the lines of creative differences, kind of. You know, they saw where we were going and all that. They understood the concept, but they just couldn't have anything to do with it. So they give us, you know, the rights to put it out. You know, they want to, you know, everything was straight with the budget and all that. You know what I mean? It's all my work. Kind of odd, you know what I'm saying? The content of a record or the content of the artwork.

Let me tell you a story. A few years back, I heard about a rapper named Ice-T whose Cop Killers CD was about murdering police officers.

It was being marketed by no less than Time Warner, the biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world. Police across the country were outraged, rightfully so. But Time Warner was stonewalling because it was a cash cow hit CD for them.

So the whole censorship issue surrounding hip-hop was real heated. Nobody wanted to really take no risks. Anything that seemed risky, they'd rather just not deal with it. You know, to them, half a million dollars ain't really nothing, I guess. You know what I'm saying? They put about that into the project and just whatever. You know what I mean? So I'm like, all right, you know, that's cool.

So, took us a while to get around to putting it out though, but it finally did come back out. We finally did put out like 2,000. Right, right. Yeah, it was great. I mean, that was, I mean, at that time, I mean, even like, there was a big problem with the Koji Rap album, Live and Let Die. Got held up for a while through the whole thing. There was a, they had to eventually do this Koshlin put out by themselves. Real politically charged music at that time. Yeah, so it was like, a lot of people's albums got shelved around that same time. So it was like, it was sort of the ongoing thing. So,

Did you actually try to do a lot of shopping of an album after a lecture? Did you go to other labels and they just weren't having it or what? They went to a couple of different labels. And yeah, they're funny. Everybody's funny. To me, it would have been a good investment. You would have made your money back. But I guess they were as scared of whatever it was.

Right. So, like, when I'm on that same time, remember, like, you're talking about even doing a third KMD at that time. You said you were going to do a third KMD with you and Grimm. Did that even go to the recording process?

Nah. So it was a plan that never even manifested? Yeah, it got thwarted. You know what I mean? Okay. So basically it was a time between, I guess, like 94, 95, and then we didn't hear from you until getting to 97. By then you had become officially MF Doom. Doom. Doom.

I was told back your whole gang access to my beeper. Call back my secretary gatekeeper. Like I ain't people. I said, darling, you a stupid.

So is anything particular happening in that two, two and a half year period that was molding you into what we were here when we first heard Deadbent? What was the process? Studying hip-hop and studying flow. A lot of rappers coming out. A lot of soloists was coming out and getting money and blowing. Now I was really rocking at the time. Neff came out. The Wu soloists kind of started budding out. Biggie was out. It was like a good time for the soloists. You know what I'm saying? That's when I was really trying to find a slot.

a good angle that I could come at that would be different from everybody's style. Something that still I could do without too much a problem. Like a technique that I could just easily master with one formula, but still it would be different than anybody else's shit. You know what I mean? So that's when I came with the Doom shit. It was just like, really just simplicity at its finest. You know what I'm saying? Just strip everything down to just the raw essence of rhyming. You know what I mean? Like,

No ad-libs. Like, when you're rhyming, usually when we be rhyming, it be like outside or at school. You're right there rhyming in a little circle or whatever. You know what I'm saying? That's how it was when we first started and whatnot. That's like, to me, the essence of it. Or like even on stage, a microphone or in a party, just you and the mic and the beat. You know what I mean? So I basically do the doom style on that. You know, no ad-libs, no chorus. It'll verse.

You know, to where if you were standing right there and it was just four of us, you would hear it the same as if you would hear it in a car or if you heard it in a stadium or a club or whatever. It's just that MC, that beat, and them lines, the punchlines. And, you know, if it's two MCs battling in that kind of setting where it's like a circle and it's just two motherfuckers going voice for voice and style for style, no nothing fancy,

you know, two MCs time out at those times, you know what I mean? That's where, you know, there's no gimmicks, you know what I'm saying, involved. I took that and said, "All right, let me use that as the basis." A lot of cats was, you know, oversaturating, joints with choruses, and, you know, like, cheesing the game up a little bit. I think cats started getting lazy.

You know what I mean? A lot of money came into the game for the Cats to get lazy and do a short versus. You know, kind of cheesy. So I said, all right, let's burn it down. If you burn it down back like how when we was burning it down when everything first started, where you could, you know, any corner in Queens and hear Cats spitting, somebody would be real nasty hitting it. Probably for 20 minutes straight with no choruses over a beatbox. You know what I mean?

If we can bring it to that level, then that's different enough to where I think the character will stand out. You know what I mean? At the same time, bring the game back to what is, you know, how I remember it.

Do you look at Doom as something very different from KMD or an evolution from KMD? Oh, I think it's all through the KMD. Doom came up, the characters kind of spawned out of the result of the experiences of a KMD kind of experience, you know what I'm saying? An industry experience.

and just have him become a second time of like, you know, something might be considered like, oh, he got dropped or it's like a failure. And like, what comes out of that failure? It's like nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever finished. Doom is that super villain that always comes back. It's back. It's back. It's back.

Are there any particular KMD songs on either album that you think best represent a warning sign that doom was to come? Even style-wise. There are probably a few songs I've never listened to the album about lately. And there's certain songs that start to me like, maybe like, oh, I can see now where doom will come from when hearing this song. How do you want this particular song to sound to you? Yeah, I would say Suspended Animation, totally doom prototype.

I get spussed and you never hear a verb flinch, a nerve pinch, cause I've been smoking herbs since I've been splitting butts. I lick them then I'm spitting once, it's nasty, shit tastes like cancer in my tongue and front. I'm fired up, I gots to get fried, the last blunt dried up, so light I really broke smoke, a coke pipe. Concipated Monkey is a good one too, cause it's pretty erratic. Yeah, yeah, it'll be, it's that killer verse type of shit. Self loves to rock a venue then, see you never be you, in fact, glad I never fucked you.

Yeah, yeah, that was definitely like Prelude to Doom, you know? At the same time, Sub was about to come with his solo shit, too. And man, if we ever had a chance to hear that shit...

That shit would have been even more ridiculous. His style, his direction was going crazy at that time. I was like, "Dow, try to keep up with him." There's at least a couple of unreleased tracks in that time period, isn't there? I remember hearing one on "Bobbito" that I never heard that came out. There's one that was, ew, I had like only a 22nd piece of it from "Bobbito" show. And I was always mad. I had like six bars, six and a half bars of it.

I've been looking for it ever since. I gotta like dig it up and check out where it is. But yeah. Yeah, it's probably on that song. I forget the title of this shit. I know I heard it like in 90s. I heard it on a tape from like a Bobby Dore show in 96. Popcorn, I think it was called. Popcorn.

That's the one that did me down, but it was Roy's help. Okay. So, of course, Doomsday came out on Final Number by Beato, and you'd already been associated with him before because you were part of the Hit You Off management, was still with Pete Nice and everything for a while, right? So when it came time to Doomsday, had you pretty much been recording stuff from this Beato album, or how did it work out pretty much?

Yeah, the way that came out, I knew Bob for a long time. I met Bob around the same time I met Pete. Pete Knight. Both of them were working up at Def Jam. Well, Pete had a deal against the Def Jam. And Bob was kind of like the radio guy there. You know what I mean? So that's when I met Bob through Pete and Cirque. And we've been friends ever since. Bob's a crazy dude. The day I met Bob, I met George. You know what I mean? Both of them crazy. You know what I mean? We're cool as hell. So, you know, me and Bob stayed in contact throughout the years.

you know, and we always had the same interest in music, you know, funk and like the good old Stevie Wonder's good old joints, you know what I mean? So, Luke has been in contact with music. He's like, yo, what's up? You got something working on it? I always had little tapes or whatever, but I always had got some so he could hear it.

And this is before he started following them. They're like, yeah, after I started sending them stuff, he's like, yo, I got this label I'm working on. And then, what's up? You want me to put some shit out on it? I want to rock it. So I'm like, all right, yo. He's like, you want to rock it? I can use the work, you know? Right. And I hit him with the rawest versions of the Dune stuff. He was feeling it. And just off that, he set it off. I think the combination of the way he was running his label and this dude.

stripped down style when I came up with doing shit it just was a map made in heaven type shit you know what I mean did no promotion it was a straight white label put it out played on a show you know what I mean and then if cats wanna buy it they'll buy it off of the off of the rec though off of like yo did you hear that you gotta go find it just that old good old digging aesthetic that was attached to it I think

I think it helped it grow. It was just a good way of presenting this particular project, you know what I'm saying? Wait, wait, wait. Don't say a word before...

The record button is engaged because I don't want to miss a word of what my man MF Doom has to say. Fresh. MF Doom. Word. Big up, big up, big up. Doom, how you doing, man? I'm chilling, man. How y'all? I haven't seen you that much recently. Yeah, yeah, I know. I love being getting those, doing my thing. You know what I'm saying? Staying fresh. Yeah. Y'all, y'all. How you, Bob? Chilling? I'm chilling. You work with some mom.

Different MCs on the regular, you know, you got Victor Vaughn that you work with, and you got the King Ghidra. Why don't you kind of give us a difference between, you know, when you're producing the Doom project or when you're doing those other projects, what's the difference in doing those and how does it work out? Yeah, each one of them has, you know, serves a different purpose. Doom is like a cat. He's like the old school cat that sticks to the rules, you know what I'm saying? Like an older cat, old G in the game type of shit.

So I said, instead of like...

trying to like have this one character have these different points of view. We split it up, you know what I'm saying? Come up with a younger cat who might have different agendas, you know what I'm saying? Or different ways of looking at things, you know what I'm saying? This way, it's a whole new style I can flip, throwing a whole new, totally new direction with words and all of that.

You know what I'm saying? It's really just to facilitate the creative flow that was happening. Anytime I get an idea, I'm like, where is your old amp? What if this happened? What if this happened? Anytime I come up with a what if, I got to do an album on it. You know what I'm saying? All right.

So of course, you know, you're money known for doing a lot of your own production, but over the last couple of years, you've done some albums with outside producers and outside projects. So I'm sure like, you know, you know, being like, you know, there being a lot of people who want to work with you, you get a lot of offers. How do you decide which projects you're going to do? And how's that different from doing like, you know, like a regular Doom album where you're doing it all yourself?

Well, it used to be... Pros and cons, I guess. Yeah, yeah, no doubt, definitely. But it used to be a lot easier. I mean, now, since it gets so busy, I don't get a lot of time. I have to really be careful which ones I eat off. I definitely can't do all of them, you know what I mean? But it's really based on...

the vibe of the person, you know, the vibe of the group or the producer, the direction that they're trying to take music to in general, you know what I mean? And yeah, it doesn't necessarily have to be the same view as mine. Like, when I first started listening to the Madeline stuff, they sent me a track before I even, um, I didn't really know about his music until they sent me the track he was on and wanted to do some work. And, you know, I got a chance to listen to that stuff, the future jazz stuff that he was doing with, like, Mad Dill, Dill, Dill, Dill, Dill,

It's kind of like it was something that was familiar, but it was so new at the same time. It's almost like an obvious direction where everything should be going in, but he actually made it to where we can listen to it and hear it. You know, like, a slice of the future, almost, like, you know what I mean? And it still kept it raw, you know what I'm saying? So with cats like that, you know, it's like it has to happen, you know what I mean? It's just like the jazz days when cats are just going to do jam sessions, hook up and just, you know...

set it off, make up quartets and make albums. Really spontaneous like that is how I try to keep it. Since I'm late, it's just me getting real busy. So, you know, I can't rock with everybody as much as I would want to if I'm not. But, yeah, generally off the feeling. You definitely have your own way of going about your production that fits what you do. So is it harder sometimes when you work with other producers and you're trying to mold into what their production is?

I would have to say, to me, from an MC20 view, it's easier when somebody else is providing the beats. And I can just listen to their beat, find what it gives me, and go on that. When I'm the producer, it's like, all right, I may do the beat verse, or I may have the verse first.

And it kind of like sometimes it gets tricky. I'm like, you got to separate the two sometimes, you know what I mean? Sometimes it gets too integrated. But at the same time, that enough integration of the two being that they're both in one body kind of thing or one mind, it could come up with interesting results like

A lot of that is on this new shit, the food shit. I mean, a lot of that melding of the producer and MC on these songs that you wouldn't get if I just got the beat from somebody and did it. As you call them, they call you when they need something. Trees for the blunt, to G's for the front. I found a way to get peace of mind for years and left the hell alone. Turn a deaf ear to the cellular phone. Send me a letter or better, we can see each other in real life just so you can

It seems like there's always like on the side projects, there's more like SMCs on the side ones. Is that more a choice of yours or that's more like with the people doing other projects, they're getting other people that they want to work with, involve with them? Or more so there's people you want, you know, how's that work out? Like the SMCs that are on the albums?

Oh, that's more like, yo, it'd be like, most of the time it's somebody who I know that rhymes, and they need, you know, I'm like, yo, alright, they trying to get on. And I see that they're honest, they got that fire, they're like, they ready to do it. And I look at it like, MTS gave me the chance, and they had, they was on, like, back when the third base was setting off. You know, it was always about, yo, you know, helping the next guy, kind of.

If you can see his struggle, see where he's going with it. MC's a rare breed when you catch an MC. A real rhymer that rhyme with ball is not just rhyming.

Because hip-hop happened to be the shit now. You gotta see that rhyme for real. Like, there would be rhyming if the shit was a leak. You know what I mean? So those cats are the cats that keep me on my toes. And I rhyme with sometimes just on the humble. You know what I'm saying? Spinning verses back and forth, practicing with nobody. But it's just only us there practicing for nothing, really. You know what I'm saying? For the sake of just staying sharp. You know what I'm saying? Those are the cats that I say, all right, yo, get on this record. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Usually, I'm like that that needs to be heard. They'll probably wouldn't have had all the chance to be heard. Now, my name is Austin. Work with me. He wants to give me like something about the experience that was unique or it's a one line about the artists or anything. So, start off with the obvious. Third base. Working with third base. Yeah, the captain's real, like, real hard workers. Real lyrical. Wordsmith. You know what I mean? MF Grimm.

Cool. Most Island Zars. Man, since we was in elementary school.

You know what I mean? So, it's one fucking day, real high for real. Like, we all be broke. Drinking beers and just rhyming, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, it was fun. It was fun working with them cats like that, you know? - All right, cool. So how about the production team for the Victor Vaughn, the King Honey, Heat Rain, and Sincer? How about that project? - King Honey, yeah, my man. It's big as a affiliate, you know, King Honey. He's a funny dude, but he's really, his beats is fucking on point. The change of beat joints, crazy.

A modern day marvel but terrible, better horrible. When he grabbed the mic from Son and crushed up all his metal carbos. He said he ain't mean it, totally by accident. After the show, he didn't follow where y'all taxi went. Will this be available on Wax, Axe, Max, Mill? They all in opposition to his ass-whacked tax bill. But will it pass the Senate? Slumlord, Tenant, and the Super like 1A.

Everything I did with that cat, you know what I'm saying, is really, really, really, uh, innovation. It's like, really, that was the first group of motherfuckers that I worked with as producers that did things totally different than I would have did it. You know what I mean? Just the whole approach to production style, like, that was like the era where, or they from the age where they were more influenced by a lot of shit that was out in my time, you know what I'm saying? They started later.

but perfected it in their own little way, like, you know, computers and other machines, you know what I'm saying? Other ways of getting it done. High-tech stuff, little high-end stuff, you know,

You know what I mean? And, yeah, it's actually really, really ill with it. You know what I'm saying? It was fun. All right. How about the Victor Vaughn 2, the Insomniac crew or whatever? Yeah, my man is who put that one together. I wasn't really familiar with the beat makers on that joint. It was a real quick joint. It was a joint like 45 days total. You know, so he sent me beats and some beats got rejected. I tried to pick the best ones out of the pack. You know, but it's really my man Israel from Insomniac magazine. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's

♪♪

No doubt.

Doing the Mad Villain Project. Like, his job was done from day one. He didn't really have to do that. All his beats were done. He hit me with a CD of like maybe four beats at first. Then he hit me with another CD of another like eight. Then I got a CD of like 50. There's two CDs with 50 apiece. There's another two CDs with 50 apiece. So you can imagine the amount of stuff that I got instrumental with this dude.

And I just had to choose the one that fit the theme of this, the way the record seemed like it was going. But man, like I got enough beats from this dude to do like 10 more. Yeah, that's a real good combination too. That came out real good. How about Profuse 73 and A$AP Rocky? You did the one track with them. Yeah.

Yeah, Prefuse. Yeah, I'm working on an EP with that dude. Man, he got some little beats too. He definitely is ill. H5, yeah, my first time, you know, rhyming with that dude. He's witty with his, you know what I'm saying? You know, it's fun. One that caught me off guard was Nonfiction.

Yeah, yeah, look at them cats here from Brooklyn and whatnot. Yeah, cool cats, you know what I'm saying? Go text them dudes out there, big up, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, we kind of met up. How did I meet these dudes? This is the New York City Circus.

How about the De La Soul joint?

For sure. Yeah, man. Yeah, I was on a talent tour this summer, and they got the same manager, Corey. So Corey's like, yo, got this beat for y'all. He pops up with his Vegas. He pops up with his beat, like, yo, Dale, I want you to rip on this joint. Their verses are already on there. Oh, okay. I had like two weeks to do it. So I'm like, all right, you know, I get a call like, yo, you done, yo? In the next few days, you're going to have it done. I'm like, oh, that's too soon. I wrote it just at that time. I wasn't...

I was like, oh, I almost got it done. I was like, really, that day, the day before I had to fly out there and do it. And I flew out to New York, met up with them cats, ripped my parts, you know. And that was it. Next two months, I should be out.

How about Prince Poe? Prince Poe joined Danger Beat. Yeah, it was the same way, similar. He had the beat and Poe's part already ripped.

So, you know, they wanted me to get on it. And the way he polated down, like, man, it was like, all right, how about, you know, you got to really step up to the plate, though.

I think it was cool, though. I think we matched with well.

That's why they call me Count Bass.

Yeah, it's always fun working with that dude. I'm working on a album with him as well. A real collaborative meld of production and, you know what I'm saying? Let's speak more about your production, actually. You've done, obviously, you've done stuff for yourself. You've done a good portion of an MF Grimm album, Monster on Zod's record, of course, All Your Special Herbs. You recently did a Sage Francis remix. Yeah.

No doubt. I want to expand that side of, you know, make it as...

at least bring it to the level of the rhyme side or, you know, try to keep them both at least neck and neck, you know what I'm saying? Production to me is more fun, kind of like, you know, it's easier, kind of, but then it's more, I wouldn't even say easier in that aspect. When it comes to rhyming, though, it's such a real, like, you know, it's your voice and like, you know, every word, you know, it has to be,

certain way but at the same time every kick and snare and hi-hat has to be a certain way as well but there's something that's that non-vocal about the whole beat making process that I think captures something by being the way I'm not speaking I'm speaking with my hands you know what I'm saying where I could uh plus other MCs they're voicing their opinions and their thoughts on it so it's like I get a million of different

and different angles on it. I always liked diversity, you know what I'm saying? From little hardcore street shit to maybe more underground kind of like, you know, funny humorous kind of stuff to maybe even more like positive, intelligent rhyme styles, you know what I'm saying? Like all types of different MCs, you know what I'm saying? A lot of them, it's like,

A lot of them is real nasty, no matter what they be talking about. Those are the kinds that I try to produce, male and female, you know? But not many MCs get the love and respect and admiration from like the old school heads to the new crowd, even the fans and even the artists who both, you know, like pretty much everyone's a Dune fan. How does that make you feel?

Right.

Hard to please everybody, you know what I mean? The angle I really look at it like, yo, what I would want to hear. You know what I mean? From the first inception of the idea, you know, you know if it sound whack or not, just don't do whack shit. You know what I'm saying? You know, I'm figuring. You know, I really just do it for myself regardless what anybody think about it. Do it for fun. Come from the heart with it. And I think people recognize that. You know what I'm saying? Not to mention just stick to certain formulas. Stick to certain formulas that you master.

after a while people see the pattern and can kind of like catch on to where you're going with it you know what I mean yeah cause like not too many people can within a few months have a record out with De La Soul and then a you know a remix with Sage Francis like what she knows like

the golden age to the who's popular now who's popular then so it's like you know a lot of people are like get locked in the box they gotta like this or like that they can't like vote but then you're but now you're on both so they're a doom fan they gotta check out both you know i don't know punk uh-huh

Yeah.

They know, we know each other from back in the day. It's kind of like, you know what I'm saying? We cross paths a few times. So, you know, it was just cool for them to holler, you know what I'm saying? All right, so are there any other, like, artists, like, you know, that you could be complimentary to their style? Caducers or MCs? Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Man, so numerous, you know? Man, I'd love to work with a brother, Jake, from X-Clash. Just on the production tip with him and his MC. Could be real, real ill, you know what I mean? ♪

Now here's the sum of another drum. Now mortals aware. Now prepare for a logical son. My verbs of power are the spirit to spank. My deep, deep blackness. Your mind gets dank. Revelation to Genesis. Something you cannot dismiss. Keys to crossroad. Come to abyss. And find a verb stick swinging while I'm living. Giving the rhythm. Heed the word and the bass drop giving.

Yeah.

You know, it's almost like picking up where I left off, where we left off, you know what I'm saying? Right before the hiatus, you know what I mean? Yeah, P-Rock, I would say, the producer, Blaze, you know, I've been talking to Jeff Blaze. Real cool cat, you know what I mean? He got some thorough beats. He respects the lyrics.

It might seem ill, willing to be a dream guy till ice cream spills off Mrs. Paul's pie to nice dreams for real. You can see the steam off his nice mean grill. A ill flick of hardcore on a doom, hot on a platter or either raw on a spoon. It's on, son. Take out Friday. Chinese fortune with the slick that goes...

Okay. Yeah, people want to hear that for a minute, I think. I've been hearing the rumors about that. People are just like, man, I'd love to hear those two on the track together. That's beautiful.

It leads to some negative energy. New York, New York, the baddest place in the century. Salute. Most of the life is dudes is dead. Some folks being polite, some rude instead. The melting pot is overflowing with lead. In the winter, it's brick. The summertime is like a swelter in hot.

For me personally, when I listen to my new record, I'm always impressed with how you can weave the words together and make it seem so effortless and seamless. And I'm like, alright, he's out. There's no way he can come with another album and do it again. And then bam. Same thing I've been thinking.

Every time. Like, after every record. Like, you know what I mean? It always happens. But then I, you know...

Plus...

When you get other languages mixed with English and their dialects and the slangs that came from the, like, people migrating into America, just all the different types of people, you know what I'm saying? There's no way you could ever run out of stupid shit to say, you know what I'm saying? That's really what it's based on. It's like,

something that can make somebody laugh that we call it related to but it's a real thing you know what I'm saying almost like outstanding comedians do it so it's like if you base it on real life and things that happen naturally in life it's forever so you know it's just a matter of just not thinking too hard about it and I just gotta keep turning Pat around me

for when I get those little stupid thoughts and then write them down. You know what I mean? Right, okay. But yeah, I think it's another ending stream of it, but even now, it's like, I don't know what I'm going to say on the next album, but I know that I'll catch enough good ones. I got enough time, and I'll do my research. You know what I'm saying? I think I have more faith in it now. We need food. We need food.

Of course right now the thing that's covered with this is all about is about the food record. So you want to talk about that record and things that stand out to you in doing it. And I guess I've seen interviews that you're saying is sort of a turning point of this, you know, like you're going to officially just become Doom and the MF would be no more and

And like, you know, what's what's what's brought that and everything like that? Yeah, it's really just focusing. It's really what he'll always be. I'm not doing I couldn't even shake it. I'm still calling him. I'm doing if I took that shit off. There's no way I can really do that. But I really mean it more like in the sense of just being personalized. You know what I'm saying? It's like doing the person if you could ever really get close to know this cat.

I mean, like, that's why I figure this food album is like in the most thought and personal kind of opinion more than general just battle lines, you know what I'm saying? Kind of went into what he thinks about the chicks more, what he thinks about, you know, the game more. You know, it gets into more of the character, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, the food album's a real, real personal album to me.

You're about to go on a little mini tour to support it and then you got also the food drive connected. You want to speak a little bit about that and why did you want to do the food drive connected and what people expect on this tour when they go out to the shows?

Yeah, the food drive part is really just to, you know, I thought that I was kind of like thinking about all the different angles I could use to facilitate the idea in a positive way. Having a message in each song, like a double meaning, but, you know, it's based on food, but there's still a message in each song. And then the food drive is really just the live aspect of what it is, what the album is, the music, you know?

You know what I'm saying? It's like a giving back or a sharing. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Yeah, so, you know, plus, just growing up poor, you know what I mean? And having to go to, like, Salvation Army to get clothes and food, you know what I'm saying? And times when that saved the day. Like, food stamps, even. Just growing up with food sometimes being a problem. Like, you know what I'm saying? Free lunch at school, like, shit like that. You know, in a way that it was kind of embarrassing at one point, kind of like. But then now I look back as an adult, you know what I'm saying? And I'm like,

-

Huh?

Oh, I think that's beautiful because, I mean, I'm quite sure there's a lot of MCs that might do something similar, but it's good the fact that he's capable of bringing it to the forefront now that he's more visible. So it's a beautiful thing because, you know, there's no other reason to do this, man. I mean, everybody can be the greatest MC in the world or the baddest or the toughest, but when you're capable of building and making something and helping the babies or family...

That means more. That means more than platinum, means more than Grammys. That's everything.

So any particular upcoming projects? I know you mentioned something throughout the interview, but what do you think is going to be after the Oomph! tour? What are some of the next things we're going to start seeing from you? Yeah, man. I don't know if it's too early to talk about this stuff, you know. A lot of times I'll leak a title out there and we won't have no songs for it. And everybody will be talking about that album. I'm like, damn, that's just a thought, yo. I'm forced to do it, but that's how it's done, though.

Start to start, you know what I'm saying? But this is how I've been working on the next Doom one, of course, you know, I'm already cracking on that concept. And it's more of the direction, man, it's going to even get closer to the character, you know what I'm saying? The title of that one is going to be Doom Home. It's like the Doom meditation, like it moves away from the drunken Doom kind of, you know, the whole little drug shrouded cloud kind of,

thing. It's like moving more in the direction of, alright, once the party is over, you know what I'm saying? What do you do then? What do you do when you drank too much and you're starting to feel dizzy and you need some air? You do home. That's when I'm trying to go back to meditation and go back to water. You know what I'm saying? That's the next challenge. Like you said, how am I going to do it? I don't know yet, but I know that's like the

The basics. And I'm just coming with the thunder up behind that. I want to just mention that, just for me and Alvin, if you want to tell me any songs that stand out on each album. Mr. Hood, what songs would best represent you as an artist and a lyricist on Mr. Hood? Mr. Hood, I would have to say Sub Rock's Mission, which I didn't even rhyme on, but Sub Lipped That Shit. Sub Lipped That Shit. You're going to get left out, Lord. Help me, Lord. Are you crazy? I'll give you a little mic.

But they won't keep in rhythm What is it? This is the mission of the group This is the mission of the group

such a snapshot of what was going on. Because he was cutting hair at the time, right out the crib. You know, that was his hustle. I don't know what I'd do. I think I was like, you know, when cats would paint the names on the pants for the girls and whatnot. Draw the little character on the side. That's what I used to do. My side hustle, like $10, whatever. But, you know, of course, you get more head cut clients than pants clients. It's just like, maybe a week to do one set of pants, $20, you know. This cat cutting hair, $10 a head.

like five six heads an hour you know so he kind of had his beat on the stack but um but yeah that sub rock mission song was the one that stood out to me as far as sub on that uh mr little album if it was me literally i would say something like um who me tricky tricky must be part of the gas face series the same one who started black cat bad luck theories yeah he done it this place he runs it guilty i'll contrast with 400 judge you not the unjust is where he slipped the real guilty is filled

Um, I'm Black Bastards. Black Bastards. Title card, Black Bastards and Bitches. Gimme. Dub rock. Oh, it sounded like a rock, dub rock, solo joint. Nah, murder.

It's my thing, yo. It's my thing. The way I swing. Not even I rang a tank and hang on my ding-ding. Okay, Operation Doomsday. Oh, Doomsday. We have to do the title cut Doomsday. Rhymes like Don's. And I have voices.

... ... ... ... ... ...

Yeah, that's a joint. Okay. Victor Vaughn. Saliva? Yeah, saliva. Saliva joint. Victor Vaughn too?

We want to join. All right, now, now, now, Iz had titled these joints, so I don't really know the titles for a second. He thought Road Rage, and he kept that one the same. Yeah, that's the one I thought was the best one on there. It was just stupid, kid. All those songs were really quickly written. Those are the best songs, and you're doing quick like that, you know what I'm saying? You stick with the topic like if it was like a little joke, you know, one of those jokes that just carry on for a second. Just like that. So Road Rage, and then Bloody Chain off that. Mad Villain.

Now I'm doing "Blind Stone." The last song I did is throwing off every one of them.

The accordion joint. Man, there's so many on there. Man, it's bloody thunder, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

King Giedra, King Medora. My man Hassan, he got the joint on that car going, I wonder. Yeah, I produced it, he ripped it. Oh, of course, the fine print. Man, that just sums up the whole thing. You know, that sums up Giedra in a nutshell, yo.

Well, I'd like to mention a couple of joints off the Food album. One there. Okay. Man.

Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah.

Anything else particular about you that people should know? Nope. I'll let you know. The villain ain't never gonna question. There's gonna be more and more coming out, so...

You know, ready your headsets and your speakers. Make sure your monitors are in good working order. Put the CD in and don't bust and shit. Definitely coming. There ain't going to be no shortage of music. Yeah, before you leave, let me just say I'd like to thank Romses and Szeke and the whole staff over there. This whole collaboration that we're doing and this...

This kind of like merging kind of thing is really going to really bring it to a head out here with this music stuff. The two companies, it's the way that they're set, you know what I'm saying? It's hip-hop. We started them with the right intent and we're both going in the right direction and this is just a crossroad. So there's going to be a whole lot of good stuff coming out of that team up right now.