Liverpool held at Forest | Arsenal closing in on Zubimendi | Itoje named England captain
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Welcome to Back Pages, they're bringing you everything you need to know about the biggest sports stories making headlines in the morning's newspapers. I'm David Garrido and joining me are David Ornstein, Football Correspondent for The Athletic and Martin Hardy, Northern Sports Correspondent for The Times and The Sunday Times. Welcome along to you both. So gents, let's start off with Liverpool and a very, very entertaining game at the city grounds. I mean, Forest did ever so well, didn't they, in this game, but then Liverpool hit back and

seemed like they might even win it. Back page of the mirror looks like this. We showed you briefly just before. Jot saves slot. And this could be it, couldn't it? In terms of the strength of the squad and what have Liverpool on their bench on a day, David, or on a night that their first team forwards really struggled.

Yeah, but they should have won comfortably, David. If you look at some of the chances that Diogo Jota had after coming on as a sub and getting his goal, he could have had a hat-trick within minutes. But take nothing away from Nottingham Forest. Their resilience was outstanding. Their goalkeeper, Madsells, was excellent.

world-class, you could say that performance was really elite. And yeah, they didn't create much going forward in the second half, but they deserved their lead in the first half and they're having a truly magnificent season. You know, they are on track to qualify for the Champions League and this did have the feeling, the magnitude of a really top match.

And it lived up to it. The intensity was high. The quality was fantastic. And Liverpool were pushed to their limits. They've not been on the best form, of course. The Tottenham result and Manchester United too. And this was not easy going to the city ground on a midweek night with that atmosphere, which is just outstanding and Forest on fire at the moment.

So they'll be quite pleased, I think, Liverpool to come away with a point from that and try and maintain their lead at the top of the Premier League in their title charge. But I don't think Forrest are going away. And so, yeah, you saw Liverpool's depth and the substitutes combining for that equalising goal. They're a fantastic side, Liverpool. Slot's having a brilliant first season in charge in all competitions and they kind of march on and they'll be pleased not to have suffered a defeat there.

Yeah, I mean, you're right to point out, you know, the defeat to Tottenham in the Caval Cup semi-final first leg, that 2-2 draw against Manchester United at Anfield, of course. But they're not getting beat that often and they can still, of course, come back in that semi-final tie to potentially win it and get to Wembley. Martin, I just wonder on Jota for you specifically, I mean, just the value...

Obviously, loads of talk about Salah right now and even Darwin Nunez being the subject of bids. But what about Diego Jota, the contribution that he is making, as it says in the sun, Jota to trot with that super sub, 22 seconds to level the game.

Yeah, it was some impact. And as David said, it was a phenomenal game. Whenever we have to take a break from the Premier League, it kind of comes roaring back and reminds us of just how special it is. It was an incredible night at the City ground. Nottingham Forest's rise. You can't really praise them high enough in terms of what they've done.

In terms of recruitment, Murillo was brilliant tonight, 10 million. Elliot Anderson's net price was 15 million. Anthony Lallanga was 15 million.

Chris Wood scores again, £15 million. Matt Sells, who David mentioned there, was absolutely superb, was £5 million. So this team has been put together with some superb recruitment and it's given Liverpool an incredible game tonight. But then the difference probably is the quality that Liverpool can turn to and what Arnie Slott can turn to on the bench and

Diego Jota has that look of a player who doesn't look particularly pleased about coming on as a super sub but I don't think he'll be much better from that position of doing it in 22 seconds and I think it might have been Murillo's only mistake of the night not to kind of pick up where this substitute was I'm sure Jota will want to start more often so there's an interesting dynamic then but you have a

a night where you keep Mo Salah quiet, the top teams will find somebody else to come through and to characterise the game and just why Liverpool probably will go on and win the league and why Nottingham Forest are doing so well this season. I think it was about the 70th minute and

Alanga breaks at great speed and Chris Wood, whose defensive work is phenomenal, does another 70-yard long busting run to get beside him and then this Rolls Royce of a defender called Virgil van Dijk just takes the ball off Alanga and calms the situation down and Liverpool go again.

They never panicked. It's incredible to think this is slot's first season in terms of how the players understand what he wants, the way they play, a slight less of the power of Klopp, but with a little bit more sophistication. This day stood up to a really difficult night tonight when the crowd could not have been any more up for the game.

It was kind of the character of Nottingham Forest, I think, was the main reason Liverpool didn't emerge with three points. But Jota comes on and does really, really well and keeps that bandwagon rolling for Liverpool. It's interesting, you mentioned Forest, you're both talking so effusively about Nuno Espirito Santo's side. If you go back nine years this very date...

Well, they have only two points fewer than Leicester had. In fact, they would have been exactly the same had they held out for the win at the City Grand. We also remember what happened in 2016 and how Leicester charged the title under Claudio Ranieri. In terms of Forest, do you think that they are going to hold down and get into that top four? Do you both expect there to be a correction of some sort? Briefly from you both, David first.

Yeah, the trajectory that they're on points-wise, David, suggests that they will make the top four. They've got the quality and the belief there, the togetherness, the atmosphere. It won't be easy. It's a much tougher competition than Leicester had, with all due respect. It was just really Arsenal that season, wasn't it? And, you know, Liverpool breathing...

fire into this title race at the top. Arsenal will presumably come back. Will City mount a challenge later on? So, Forest won't have it their own way. But I'm starting to think that they're capable of it. Yeah, finishing in the top four, it now wouldn't surprise me based on the points per game forecast that they should be aspiring to. And it would be an incredible story. Do you reckon, Martin?

We've had a kind of a one-team monopoly for four years now and there's been a bit of a history made, but the Premier League needed a season like this. I think it's 11 points between second place and ninth place. There are three points between fourth place Chelsea and seventh place Bournemouth. The league table moved today like the last stage, you know, the group stage of the World Cup where you weren't quite sure who was going to be in the top four by the time we came on air. Nottingham Forest have been a breath of fresh air this season. Newcastle are coming strong, keep an eye on Aston Villa. It

you know, Arsenal are struggling a bit. Liverpool are standing up as a challenge. They had one at St. James' Park a few weeks ago. They've had one at the City Ground tonight. It makes the league table much, much more interesting when these teams can go, you know, go toe-to-toe with the top clubs.

You mentioned Arsenal there, Martin. Let's talk about a story on the back page of the Daily Telegraph, and that is Arsenal win race, or to win race for Spain's £51m Zubamendi, and £51m because that is his release clause. Remember, he was linked heavily with Liverpool, then decided at the last minute not to head to Anfield. Is this the signing, David, that is going to placate Arsenal fans who know that actually perhaps their priority is in a different part of the pitch?

Not in the immediate term, David, because Arsenal fans are understandably looking for something in the final third in terms of a striker or somebody that can contribute goals from across the front line. And Arsenal are looking for that sort of player in the market. They're not going to be able to do a domestic loan because of the

of Raheem Sterling and Neto filling those slots already, unless one of them was to be termed permanent. But we're not expecting that. So they'd have to look for an overseas loan. They've been linked with Dusan Vlaevic. My latest information is that's not looking like one that Arsenal are going to pursue. But let's see how things go on the...

in the couple of weeks ahead with a number of options that I'm sure they'll have. They like Benjamin Sesko historically, but I don't expect him to move in this window. The real apple of their eye is Alexander Izak, certainly for Mikel Arteta.

but we know how difficult that will be if possible at all. So Zubamendi is a midfielder that they've pursued for longer than anybody before Liverpool, before Manchester City. Liverpool came close last summer, but he's been the one Arteta has wanted and they worked on it while they were...

in the process of signing Mikel Marino from Real Sociedad last summer. And they've made some real progress. They'll hope to get it over the line. And that will bring some real questions for, you know, what's going to happen in terms of the future of Thomas Partey and Jorginho. I don't think final decisions have been made yet where Marino and Declan Bryce are going to play in the six or the eight role. But he's a top player. We've seen that with Spain and Sociedad

There's a 60 million euros release clause. As I understand it, Arsenal might look to pay a little bit more than that, actually, to then gain a better payment plan, stagger those installments and be able to then do other activity next summer. So, yeah, it's one that should excite Arsenal fans. But in the immediate term, they'll want something that can help them with their goals requirement. But it gives them a bit of a boost, perhaps, going into tomorrow's North London derby.

We just caught just half a second of you, Martin, shaking your head in disdain at the idea of Alexander Izak leaving St James' Park for the Emirates Stadium. But what do you think might tempt Newcastle? You know, when we're thinking about things like PSR right now, what sort of fee do you think they'd go, all right, let's do a deal?

The current noise from Newcastle are they just won't play ball at the minute. And they have been a club that kind of set the ball rolling on the PSR conversation last year when Darren Eales admitted that Newcastle were going to have to start trading, which they did in dramatic circumstances at the end of June with Elliot Anderson and Yankuba Minde. There doesn't seem any appetite at all to sell Alexander Rizak. And if they are serious about the project and breaking into that top four position,

for more than just the odd season and they have to hold on to Alexander, is that because, you know, we've been watching a lot of them and we've been saying for quite a while this is probably the best centre forward in the country, which I think he now is.

And now everyone says he's the best centre forward in Europe. And now we think he probably is. And therefore, is he the best centre forward in the world? And he's probably not far off. And the amazing thing about Alexander Izak is when you watch him regularly, he's 25, there is more to come. So he's scoring goals regularly. He can go past people. He's adding to his strength. He's scoring headers.

Some big fees have been mentioned, 150 million. I don't think, I think Newcastle would really stick their heels in the ground, not to sell them because if they do, the whole thing moves back a couple of years and they have to try somehow to unearth another Alexander Rizek. There's a good relationship, very good relationship with Eddie Howe who was making him a better player, get somewhere with his teammates. At

At the minute, are we saying moving to Arsenal would guarantee Alexander Rizac a league title? It's been a long time since Arsenal won the league title. At the minute, you'd say Liverpool are very much favourites to do it this season. Can't see anything happening in January. I'm sure we'll have a lot more conversations in the summer. But by then, Newcastle hope by having

three transfer winners where they haven't done anything, they'll be in a position where they can perhaps go, you know what, we can add to this squad so the likes of Gomeris, Izak, Tenali, Bottmann, Gordon have more players coming in like that. And you then start thinking, right, Newcastle themselves might not be too far away from going for the title. Martin, the Zubamendi story is covered in your paper as well in The Times. Just a really quick word on that if you can.

him coming in, potentially Partey and Jorginho moving out. I mean, that feels like an upgrade in that position for Arsenal. Do you see it the same way? Yes, it's definitely an upgrade. As David said, the Arsenal fans will look and go more, you know, he's a very good player. He was great in the Euros final when he came on, when everyone thought the game would turn on Rodri and it was like, here comes somebody that's just more or less as good. But Arsenal fans will probably think we're quite well sorted for Clemson.

clever midfielders we would quite like somebody with more prominence up front and obviously you may talk about Slater the injury to Gabriel Jesus with an ACL perhaps complicates that picture even further. Just briefly because Arsenal of course as you mentioned David are playing in that North London derby against Tottenham and they've had their injury struggles Tottenham we know are wonderfully erratic so what do you think is going to be the decisive factor when it comes to this one?

Well, Arsenal have to bounce back three without a win and they're on home soil and they've

had a little window of opportunity open for them tonight with the draw between Forrest and Liverpool. So they're going to have to be bang up for it. And the motivation losing Jesus for the season to an ACL, I think that they'll want to put the record straight after the Man United defeat in the cup. But Tottenham themselves have shown glimmers of big game potential against Liverpool, like you said earlier. So, yeah,

putting me on the spot Richarlison returning for Tottenham as well I just wonder if Arsenal's desperation to really fight back in this title race might tip them over the edge in tomorrow's game OK so let's go to the Express obviously we've mentioned Liverpool's draw at Nottingham Forest but they cover all the other games in the Premier League as well some decent games entertaining games there and draws as well anything that jumps off the page for you David?

Oh, Bournemouth is a fantastic story. What's going on there? Um, under Bill Foley, the new owner on the South coast, um, and, and the sporting hierarchy. And of course, and only your Iola, what a coach he's turning out to be. And, um, he's, I don't think Bournemouth want to lose him anytime soon, but he's destined for the very top. It would appear their recruitment's been fantastic. Um,

in recent years and, and they're delivering on the pitch. So Menyo, what a story and what a goal that was for him. Uh, they'll be gutted that they didn't manage to hold on for the win. He was actually born in Chelsea as it happens. Um,

And yeah, they just, they seem to rise to the challenge of playing the big teams, the likes of Man City and Arsenal beaten and a really good point at Stamford Bridge tonight. And it just shows the strength and depth of the Premier League now. It's not just the old top four or even top six, but it's below that. And they are remarkable. And a lot of teams looking at some of their players and thinking they might go for them in the future.

Which other game really caught your eye tonight, Martin? We're kind of wondering if Manchester City are going to click into the team that's won the title four times and they're winning 2-0 at Brentford with two goals from Phil Foden who's starting to find a bit of form. Kevin De Bruyne has got an assist and you're thinking this puts them back in the top four contention and then...

there's an 80 second minute goal from visa and an injury time man city crumble again and brentford get this brilliant draw and you just that's 12 points behind liverpool at this stage of the season which nobody would have foresaw we know for various reasons it's been a particularly troublesome week for pep guardiola but to see the team lose a two-goal lead in that fashion something they wouldn't have done in many of those previous four seasons

this felt like the night when you realise for definite if there was ever doubt that the champions have lost the title and somebody else we're going to have a new winner come the end of the season it's going to be interesting to see what Manchester City do from here because that's a punishing game where they thought they had it won

Let's move to The Guardian and the story at the bottom of the back page. Arteta urges crackdown on terrible online abuse. Listen, we've been here before, haven't we, guys? Michael Arteta warning of the terrible consequences of failing to crack down on social media abuse and admitted that Kai Habits has been affected by the abhorrent messages sent to his pregnant wife.

And Arteta also goes on to say we have to we really have to do something about it. But but what is that, David? I mean, you know, as I say, this isn't the first time we've talked about this kind of topic on the show.

No, it's not at all. It's become a catalogue of incidents. And I was always of the view, maybe keep it under wraps and don't draw attention and give oxygen to these idiots. But that doesn't seem to have worked. And maybe it is better to out them and try and create a bit of goodwill and positivity, which Arteta has done today with some fantastic comments in support of Havertz.

who's an excellent player. He's had a good time overall since joining Arsenal, especially the calendar year of 2024 in terms of his numbers. The hero one minute, the next he's receiving abuse, his wife's receiving abuse. I mean, what on earth is going on here?

And, um, and he, and he's a really good, uh, human being as well. Um, and it extends far beyond that. Ange Postacoglu, um, subjected at Tamworth to, from a small section of, of the crowd to abuse and projectiles by the sounds of it. Um, Chris Ray, one of the Tamworth players, uh, reporting racist abuse that he suffered online post-match, uh,

David, I don't know the solution, but there's a lot more goodwill out there than poison and negativity. And it feels incumbent on all of us now to sort of rise up and show solidarity and support and make the majority, which of a correct persuasion, louder than the noisy, vile minority, which I think most of us are absolutely sick to the back teeth of. Yeah.

Yeah, well said, David. Let's move back to Martin's paper, The Times, and it's exclusive by Molly Hudson. Martin, old firm clubs in WSL talk. So, Celtic and Rangers holding initial talks with the Women's Super League to explore a move to play in the English top flight. What do you make of it?

Yeah, no, very good story. Fairly dramatic as well. We'll wait to see. I know the WSL are trying to kind of be very innovative on new ideas to boost the game. The one thing I would suspect may kind of bring this back is the fact that whether it creates a precedent for the men's game and

I don't ever see a day when Celtic and Rangers would be playing in the English Premier League for various reasons. You'd be bringing two really big clubs in as competitors when Celtic and Rangers travel as this huge support that goes with them. So you,

you would have big police operations to go with that. That may be one of the things that stops it because of the precedent with the crossover in the men's game. But we wait and see. And the story that Molly's done there, she does say that the Scottish women's game is significantly behind the English women's game anyway. But it's a very interesting story.

Let's stick with the times, but move to a rugby union and six stations almost upon us. Steve Borthwick choosing to change skipper. So out goes Jamie George and in comes Mauro Itoji. How do you think that's going to change things, both in terms of on the field of play and the atmosphere with England, David?

I think it's brilliant. I think it's been a decision a long time coming and he's got the club captaincy now after Owen Farrell's moved to Racing. Obviously not great for George, but he's a few years older. He's also not completing the 80 minutes like Mauro Otoji is. He's got all of the qualities to lead by example from the Six Nations onwards. And, you know, he's been talismanic for years.

club, country and also for the Lions as well. It's hard. It's disappointing for George, which is what Borthwick has said. But Borthwick knows from a similar position that Eto'o plays the same club as well of his qualities. And when they met for a coffee, which is very rugby, isn't it, to deliver the decision, Borthwick talks of the smile that was on Eto'o's face. And I think it's a great moment. And the England supporters and rugby supporters as a whole will get behind him, no doubt.

David, we've got England in Ireland, in Dublin to start off with, then France come to Twickenham. So realistically, briefly if you can, what sort of chance have they got this year?

Well, the RFU is expecting Borthwick to win four out of five, which England haven't done since 2020. So it's on him to deliver. Results have been below expectation and they've got the quality in the player pool there. So, yeah, it's on his shoulders now. And I think they've got a chance of doing it.