We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode Something Wicked This Way Comes?

Something Wicked This Way Comes?

2025/1/6
logo of podcast Barron's Live

Barron's Live

AI Deep Dive AI Insights AI Chapters Transcript
People
J
Jim Paulsen
Topics
Jim Paulsen: 2024年股市表现强劲,但年末出现回调,这属于正常现象,不必过度担忧市场大幅下跌。年末的股市波动通常是由交易量减少和市场剧烈震荡造成的,不应过度解读。12月之前的上涨行情可能影响了年末的“圣诞上涨”行情。与“圣诞上涨”相比,一月效应与全年市场表现的相关性更高。大型科技公司具有前所未有的创新能力,传统的估值方法对其并不适用。美国大型科技公司将继续主导市场,但仍可能出现回调。如果实际GDP增长率下降到2.5%以下,科技股可能会出现回调,但不必完全抛售。 通货膨胀的担忧被夸大了,长期通缩力量依然存在。货币增长不足可能导致经济放缓,并加剧经济衰退的担忧。美联储的货币政策与经济形势脱节,但其他政策因素在一定程度上抵消了其负面影响。债券收益率过高,这与通货膨胀下降的趋势相悖,可能受到多种因素的影响,包括美联储的政策、通货膨胀预期和政府债务。传统的估值方法在当前市场环境下不再适用,需要寻找新的估值方法。虽然存在泡沫的可能性,但当前市场缺乏广泛的乐观情绪,这降低了泡沫破裂的风险。建议投资者适度转向防御性行业,以应对潜在的市场回调,但不必完全清仓。对中国市场持谨慎态度,建议投资者关注除中国以外的新兴市场。当前市场估值与以往不同,传统的“这次不一样”的论点有一定道理。没有单一的指标可以预测市场顶部,需要综合考虑多种因素,例如市场情绪、货币政策、经济增长和潜在的衰退风险。对贵金属价格持悲观态度,认为其价格上涨与市场悲观情绪相关,随着市场情绪的改善,贵金属价格可能下跌。看好小型股的长期前景,但在经济放缓时期,建议谨慎投资。能源类股票的估值存在周期性波动,难以预测其长期估值水平。 Ben Levisohn: 主要负责引导话题,提出问题,并对Jim Paulsen的观点进行总结和补充。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why does Jim Paulsen believe the stock market won't experience a big downturn despite the weak Santa Claus rally at the end of 2024?

Jim Paulsen attributes the weak Santa Claus rally to light trading and whipsaw movements during the holiday season, which often reverse in the new year. He emphasizes that the market's performance in January is a better indicator of the year's trajectory, and with the S&P up over 1% in early January, he remains optimistic about the market's resilience.

What makes the current wave of innovation in tech companies different from historical innovations like automobiles or airplanes?

Unlike historical innovations like automobiles or airplanes, which have maintained their core functions over time, tech companies today are constantly evolving. Innovations in AI, robotics, and quantum computing are disrupting industries and altering the very nature of these companies within short timeframes. This rapid evolution makes traditional valuation techniques less applicable, as the future products and growth rates of these companies are unpredictable.

Why does Jim Paulsen think tech stocks might face a correction in 2025?

Jim Paulsen predicts a potential correction in tech stocks due to slowing economic growth, which he expects to fall below 2.5% real GDP growth. Historically, tech stocks perform well when real GDP growth is above 2.5%, but underperform during slower growth periods. He suggests lightening up on tech holdings to prepare for a possible correction while still maintaining some exposure to benefit from potential gains.

What are Jim Paulsen's views on inflation and its impact on the economy in 2025?

Jim Paulsen believes inflation fears are overblown. He argues that the recent inflation spike was supply-driven due to pandemic-related disruptions and that secular disinflationary forces, such as aging demographics and global competition, remain strong. He expects inflation to stabilize around 2%, making current bond yields of 4.6% seem excessively high and potentially leading to a slowdown in economic growth.

Why does Jim Paulsen think the Federal Reserve's policies have been 'backwards' since the pandemic?

Jim Paulsen criticizes the Federal Reserve for staying too loose during the inflation surge in 2020-2022 and then remaining tight during the disinflation period. He argues that other factors, such as money supply contraction and fiscal tightening, were responsible for curbing inflation, not the Fed's actions. This 'backwards' approach has created uncertainty, but he believes other economic policies are compensating for the Fed's missteps.

What is Jim Paulsen's outlook for bond yields in 2025?

Jim Paulsen believes bond yields are too high given the current inflation trajectory. He notes that while inflation has fallen significantly since its peak, bond yields have risen, which is historically unusual. He attributes this to the Fed's influence and fears of rising government debt. However, he expects bond yields to decline if economic growth slows and recession fears resurface.

Why does Jim Paulsen think traditional valuation metrics like P/E ratios are less relevant today?

Jim Paulsen argues that traditional valuation metrics, such as P/E ratios, have become less relevant due to the shift in the market's composition toward growth-oriented tech companies. These companies are less volatile and less tied to economic cycles, justifying higher valuations. Additionally, factors like reduced recession frequency, increased market liquidity, and higher profit productivity have contributed to a sustained upward shift in valuation ranges since the 1990s.

What is Jim Paulsen's perspective on China's economic outlook for 2025?

Jim Paulsen is bearish on China, citing its loss of supply chain dominance, reputational issues, and a significant debt overhang. He believes China's economy is in a prolonged downturn, similar to Japan's in the 1990s, and recommends investing in emerging markets outside of China. He notes that the EMXC ETF (emerging markets ex-China) has outperformed China-focused investments in recent years.

What is Jim Paulsen's outlook for small-cap stocks in 2025?

Jim Paulsen is cautiously optimistic about small-cap stocks. While they have underperformed recently, he believes they could lead the next leg of the market rally if the economy slows and the Fed eases monetary policy. He recommends focusing on higher-quality small-cap indices like the S&P 600 rather than the more leveraged Russell 2000.

Why does Jim Paulsen think gold prices may decline in the coming years?

Jim Paulsen believes gold prices are closely tied to pessimism and fear. With consumer confidence currently low, gold has performed well. However, he expects a resurgence in consumer confidence in the coming years, which could lead to a sell-off in gold as investors shift to riskier assets.

Shownotes Transcript

Barron's Deputy Editor Ben Levisohn and Jim Paulsen, author of the Paulsen Perspectives newsletter on Substack discuss the stock market's tough end to 2024 and what to expect in 2025.