Talking Dateline: Dead Man Talking
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Hi, i'm josh makoos and this is talking date line. And today i'm interviewing you can say your name.

I love seeing your face. The listeners can see that I can right now and i'd like seeing IT.

Thank you. And we're going to be talking today about Andrea's episode called dead man and talking, which is a great title. Well, here's our first little behind the scenes, tid bit. The titles of these episodes are almost the only thing in an hour or two hour deadline episode that the correspondence don't really play a role in writing.

And so, you know.

that is true. People say to me what happened in the mystery of, you know, apple beach and what was like, which one was that? Because I don't remember them by the titles of the episodes because we didn't playing role in that, but actually think dead man talking is a great tool.

So you were on this story for a really long time. This wasn't something you started like two months before they heard. You were pretty involved in this story.

Yeah, I love getting .

involved in this case, you, and getting on the phone with some of these women, some of the people, the story, and persuading them to be on deadline, which I think is like one reason why this this came out so well yeah and .

and sometimes that just takes that involvement in. Lyn keller, the producer also IT, was just a matter of us getting on the phone. We'd like to do that together as team.

I'd like all things weird. So when I and i've just been like forever in my career, that I always gravitate toward the weird stories. And as soon as I saw this pop up, can even remember where now it's spent so long.

It's been a couple years. I just I said, we have to do this story. This is such a fascinating story.

And IT really was one when we jumped on. IT had no conclusion. So we jumped on for the ride and have been on IT ever sense IT .

certainly was a ride. I mean, that's exactly how i'd describe IT because it's it's you get to look back and this guys passed to see you know what he was like as a kid and then what he was like later yeah well.

and let's talk about him. You know who we're talking about. His name is nicolas rossy. He is from road island. And he got into a lot of trouble, a lot of allegations, you know, ranging from allegations fraud to sexual assault and the authorities were after, and then he disappeared because he died. So he, nicolas rossy, was no longer available to be arrested, apparently because he was dead.

Which feels like the the story.

but it's not we're jumped in .

ahead a little bit here, but everybody who's listening to this presumably did see the story. And if you didn't watch IT on date line or streamed on peacock, you should probably listen to the story before you hear are are, are behind the scenes explanation of IT.

But for people who did see the story or have already listen to him on the cast, what you think he would be up to if he hadn't gotten cove IT? Because one of the true things about this story, one, one of the absolutely provable things about his story, is he did get over IT and he didn't nearly die from IT, and he didn't have to go to the hospital, and that's where he get ended up getting arrested. IT seems not in flaught ble to believe that, you know, if he hadn't been first laid up with coffee and then locked up finally, there might be more women in danger.

I think law enforcement would absolutely agree with that. I know his victims agree with that. You know, they just wanted him to be stopped.

What we've heard is that long enforcement used his online presence to catch up with him. So what he was doing was what we were told was that he would keep changing his I P. address.

And then, you know, they show up at these addresses and he wouldn't be there because he was kind of leading them on this world goose chase. But apparently they finally did figure that out. And based on what we've been told, they finally showed up at his flat in in glasses where they found his wife.

who told them that he was .

in the Scottish hospital.

IT shows you, unfortunately, how if you're a criminal and you're that bold and you're willing to tell those lies and keep telling them and you're permissive at IT, the system has served not set up to stop people like that yeah .

and I think also part of IT was people that the women told us they were so afraid of him that a lot of them didn't go forward and you know in press charges like they would call the police but then they wouldn't want to go .

forward with IT. Astonishing how long this guys passed took to catch up with them you finally get um but IT sure took a long .

time yeah this is catch me if you can and he's calling people, you know he's calling the state police. He's calling the reporter, you know so he was interesting how he's twin with them you know a little bit where .

he's he's bold yeah he's never playing defense. He's on offence all the time and this was the refrain that I sort of felt lasted, you know, all the way through, which is everybodys against me. Everybody's conspiring against me. I'm the one being persecuted 呀。

And IT was really incredible, the way that he had built himself up in death, you know, his orbit. Ual arias like reads, who said, IT, the priest said you think he was across between mother trees and the dolly lama, I think was something like that when you get .

a chance to write your own a bit. I don't hold back when you say the date line. I got this story about this conman, but it's gonna require going overseas. Have that meeting go.

I mean, for this particular story, we had to, you know, to be able to properly do the story. And what we did was we got the key interview before we asked to go to scotland. So we got the interview with Nicholas rossy.

That interview was like, no other interview i've ever done before. I was really wild. And wow, I mean, he's on this roller coaster in the interview is crying. Then he's getting mad at me. Then he's like getting mad other people and he he's just like all over the place.

You know, he does not seem super charming to me. What is how how does he started to get people and he was orbit and to feel comfortable with them?

I think people do think he's charming in the beginning. I think he, if you talk to the women, you know he's he's very nice and friendly and you know he tells him he went to harvard and he's trying to make change. And I do think that there is that there is some element of term. I just don't think at last very long.

I get the feeling the states sort of a competition a between the number of fake navy seals and the number of fake harvard graduates because there's a lot of both, probably more than the genuine article in both cases.

Yeah he he certainly love brigg about harvard.

He did take .

a couple of extension courses from harvard, so there was a tiny connection IT. Just, he was definitely .

no harvard. D stop by the bookstore there, I think stepped up some.

You got to play the part job.

Yes, wag, yeah. One of the one thing that I just noticed the looking at your story was when you interview the guy who I think was his attack y briefly in road island, the jeff pine, I with the college with them I seen him in like forty five years. I was like, oh, hi jeff, I yeah.

He went on to be attorney y. General of road island. I never seeing that, but I mean, we're not friends, but I I hadn't seen him in.

So oh my gosh, that is really funny. wow.

Tell me about cl, if what .

would IT be without A A Scottish castle? In the end, David lived in. His wife had wanted to buy a castle in europe for many years, and they had been looking.

And then this castle came for sale about fifty miles from glass go. And so they at first David told me they weren't onna buy IT because of date, because of of Nicholas are the night being in glasses go. They were actually concerned about their safety.

And then they finally said, you know, we can't let the sky rule our life anymore than he already has. And so they bought the castle. And when we were interviewing this extradition attorney in eba, he said that we have all been calling at the F U.

Castle because, you know, he's the castles only fifty miles from where Nicholas was apprehended. We went to the castle and it's just it's beautiful. I mean, it's it's on this gorgeous lock. And once he's done with that, i'm sure it's gonna incredible.

You had a nightmare because of this story.

Oh yeah, I did. I actually did. No, no.

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People ask me a lot whether I get nightmares as a result of the stories we cover and and I truthful answer that I don't but in .

this case you did so strange it's, I think, all the things i'd heard about him and how he goes after people, I think I might have been like two nights in a row .

and then the nightmare stops pertly.

I like a baby.

Now that sounds like he's gonna extradited and is going to be a trial, and you're going up doing another day line.

I know you I certainly hope that the extradition hearing is supposed to last for a week. IT will be in june as of right now. And then you know, we'll see where we go from there.

One of the interesting things about this story is it's one of the few day lines that I can think of in which no one dies except the defendant.

Very true, very .

true.

There's violence, but there's no murder. And yes, that's why at the top of the show we say, and a mysterious death.

right? So that's good. That's right. IT is a mother ious death, not the one you're talking about when you're few walks on the daylight. Usually most serious death is something is always gna get accused of.

So, you know, one of the lessons here, clearly, I think king about this is don't get tatters because that's A A whole other way of identifying you. I love you. You wouldn't show you that that was during the interview.

I thought that was great. You know, when he's got this mask on in front of his face, you can't really see what he looks like. You were kind of exposing. And he even because he wasn't playing along and I thought you did a great job with that interview.

you know, it's more chAllenging because I wasn't in the room with him, you know, for that which I wish I was, but I wasn't. But I think the mask is definitely a crush you for hiding things and actually funny story. Jane, the pod caster who did the podcast on this called I am not Nicholas, so SHE SHE saw in the glasses hotel when he was on the phone with me.

So what happened was we had set up the interview with artha and maranda, and he uses the opportunity to call a press conference. He calls the rest of the Scottish media, and they all show up. And anyway, so i'm on the phone with them, like, what are you doing this? Turn over.

What are you doing? And jane happens to see him on the phone with me, and he takes his mask off for the phone call and he sees a space between his teeth, his two front teeth and SHE goes back to the to Nicholas rossy. And he sees the same space between the teeth. And that's that's when he was like really sold that IT was him was that moment when he saw that gap between his teeth and IT was identic to the one from america.

I'm done by his diadem a that's .

what he said.

I know what is got because of this. I'm pointing pointing at my teeth right now. Yes.

well, if you try to fake your death, will will use that against you. You'll have to get like teeth work done, just like he had tattoo work done. He just he didn't .

have his teeth done. Keep mind. Yeah know the woman, Catherine, who recorded him? I thought, oh.

Catherine had, can darn one of his x wives.

I thought that SHE. I mean, what a huge favor SHE did to so many other people by doing that. I mean, because in those recordings you really get a sense of sort of the rage that comes out of this guy when he's not getting this way.

Yeah and and not just through the spoken word, the yelling what the creepier thing was when he came back to their their place and he had been ordered to leave and there's a gun sitting on the couch. He said that he just left the gun there as a message that scared the living daylights out of her.

I mean, I think you really see in both mary and Catherine the sort of you know willows of two women, to insist that the that this guy, whatever his name is, however you know him, be held accountable and and they insisted on that sort of even when he was, i'm not going to say the criminal justice system was allowing and be a vade responsibility, but certainly they had yet brought him before the bar, you know, and he was, you know, he was essentially evading and and caught yet. And these two women, like really in both case, is just tremendous willpower and and you know me recording this guy who you know to be dangerous and scary and violent is is a very difficult thing to do and he did that yeah .

were they were very brave. It's the best thing you can do for the next victim, you know, to avoid having another victim.

which is an important thing to keep in mind, which it's not just about you, it's about the next person.

The next person, exactly. Yeah, yeah. I I just, I love talking to these women. I really did. There they were. So just the fact that I just, you know, you called, call someone about the worst experience of their life and they say yes, and they'll ll do IT, and then they do IT with such Grace and strength.

And it's like when you talk to people like that, you're just like, wall, how did you do IT you know? And why are you talking to me right now? Well, how are you able to talk to me about this right now? I'm always so impressed when people, when people can do that, it's really amazing.

And it's one of the reasons the story is so good because if you if you don't have those two women in IT like you don't have a sense of their strength and the stories that they tell art is good if if you're .

having to tell IT without yeah gosh even even nav seeker with the ese company. You know he was after him like as soon as he realized what was happening, you know SHE hired a private investigator. SHE went to the police SHE tried everything he could um of course you know Nicholas was always one step ahead or Arthur in her case um but no, he was also willing to to he was you really terrorizing her online? He's ruthless.

Oh, he is absolutely ruthless. Yeah yeah. And you know, I just for people who didn't maybe haven't watched the just in case we should say that maybe that the judge ruled that Arthur night is Nicholas rossy.

One of things we should mention is that Nicholas slash R R. Denies this. Uh, the man who says his Arthur denies that his nickle was rossy and says that the fingering events that identify them is incorrect and that he's not done any of the things that nichols rossy is accused of doing because they're not the same person and he hasn't been tried yet for that or even extradited at this point so what the eventual legal disposal, this cases we know now. But mister night, which is if that's the person you are interviewing, maintains his innocence and says he is not guilty of any of the things that nicless rosses accused of.

That is correct.

Okay, anything wrapped up with when you're shooting on the streets of glass go, do people walk up to you and say where you from and you say, we're from a show called date line and they say, what's that? Or do they say, oh, we watch that?

No, no one. I'd love to a report that everyone in scotland is watching date line, but they're not. No, i'll just say, I mean, this is this is one of the weirdest, if not the weirdest, state lines i've ever done. And nicolas flash author is one of the strangest interviews i've ever done. This one will go down in the in the history books for me, as you know, the weird and weakest for sure.

Andrea, thank you for talking day line has spent fun, so fun.

Always great to see you. You too and .

you know you are everybody else see you friday on date line on nbc.

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